[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11897

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Feeding Pork shoulder
From: kimberlykay1119

2a. Re: Pig Feet
From: kimberlykay1119
2b. Re: Pig Feet
From: Andrea
2c. Re: Pig Feet
From: costrowski75
2d. Re: Pig Feet
From: Yasuko herron
2e. Re: Pig Feet
From: Yasuko herron

3a. fat buildup
From: Felicia Kost
3b. Re: fat buildup
From: costrowski75
3c. Re: fat buildup - False Pregnancy
From: Sandi Hunt

4a. Re: A few questions
From: Andrea
4b. Re: A few questions
From: ginny wilken
4c. Re: A few questions
From: Pamela Picard

5a. Re: Someone mentioned pig something or other for...
From: costrowski75

6a. Carcinoma
From: Cindy Mack
6b. Re: Carcinoma
From: Laura Atkinson

7a. Elk,Venison,Denver Deer
From: Yasuko herron
7b. Re: Elk,Venison,Denver Deer
From: Tina Berry
7c. Re: Elk,Venison,Denver Deer
From: Yasuko herron
7d. Re: Elk,Venison,Denver Deer
From: Tina Berry
7e. Re: Elk,Venison,Denver Deer
From: Yasuko herron

8. Any Korean raw feeders out there?
From: temy1102

9a. Re: Fat buildup
From: Felicia Kost
9b. Re: Fat buildup
From: Tina Berry
9c. Re: Fat buildup
From: merril Woolf

10. Any dogs 10+ years on raw?
From: lmclaen

Messages
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1a. Re: Feeding Pork shoulder
Posted by: "kimberlykay1119" kimberlykay119@sbcglobal.net kimberlykay1119
Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 7:16 am ((PDT))

I too use Pork Picnics a lot, in fact that is dinner tonight! I do not
take the thick skin or fat off, my guys have been on raw for nearly 6
months now and they are doing well with leaving all skin on any meats
that I feed them. I have the butcher cut the big 10 lb pork picnic 2
different ways, the first few I have him cut in 3 pieces (we have 3
dogs) so every dog gets about a 2 - 3 lb piece. They get these about
once a week on a "gorge" day. The other 5 or six I will have him cut
into 6 pieces so that I have some nice 1 - 1.5 lb chunks of mostly meat
that I can add to something bony like pork spare ribs or that I can
easily cut smaller if I need to. If you cannot cut the bone in the
picnics you have now, save the bone and freeze it. Once you have
enough saved up for everyone, then everyone can have one. I do this
with the ham bones that I use when I make soup in the winter.
Kimberly
>

Messages in this topic (5)
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2a. Re: Pig Feet
Posted by: "kimberlykay1119" kimberlykay119@sbcglobal.net kimberlykay1119
Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 7:17 am ((PDT))

There really isn't enough meat for it to count as a meal. Like someone
suggested here, feed it with a side of boneless meat if you want it to
be a meal. My german shepherds usually get them on Sunday afternoons
as a treat. It usually takes them a good hour to gnaw through one and
the puppy still falls asleep about half way through it. Really tires
them out! Then dinner will be a boneless pork picnic chunk or beef
roast, whatever boneless I have on hand.
Kimberly

If I fed 3 or 4 pig's feet to a big dog,
> would it be a meal, or should I just give them as fun chewie toys?

Messages in this topic (10)
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2b. Re: Pig Feet
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 7:18 am ((PDT))

There's a lot of fat in those trotters, and some dogs get loose stool
from them. I've only seen the short feet (about 6" long), but I know
that they do sell long feet that have meat and muscle from the leg
still attached. If you can get the long feet, you could probably feed
them for a meal. Otherwise, I freeze them and give the boys
feetsickles on hot days where they don't want to do a whole lot of
anything.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "diannem200400" <diannem200400@...>
wrote:

> They are about 12 inches long and look to have meat on
> them, but it's hard to tell. If I fed 3 or 4 of them to a big dog,
> would it be a meal, or should I just give them as fun chewie toys?

Messages in this topic (10)
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2c. Re: Pig Feet
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 7:46 am ((PDT))

"diannem200400" <diannem200400@...> wrote:
> do they have any nutritive value or are they just
> recreational? They are about 12 inches long and look to have meat on
> them, but it's hard to tell. If I fed 3 or 4 of them to a big dog,
> would it be a meal, or should I just give them as fun chewie toys?
*****
Three of four as a meal might produce more loose stool than you want to
deal with, depends on the size and experience of your dog. I feed
bigger ones--16-20 inches maybe with quite a lot of meat at the north
end--to my adult retrievers as a full meal; they generally eat all the
but the toes and sometimes have a bit of loose stool but nothing
requiring heavy housekeeping.

Perhaps you maybe should test drive a singleton and go from there. At
the very least they are terrific fun toys.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (10)
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2d. Re: Pig Feet
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 8:03 am ((PDT))

>feed it with a side of boneless meat if you want it to be a meal.

Hi,Kimberly.I agree with you. If one wanted to feed asmeal,one needs to add good hunk of meat because the feet does not have much meat on it.

>My german shepherds usually get them on Sunday afternoons as a treat. It usually takes >them a good hour to gnaw through one

I don't feed feet regulary but I have fed before for my dog;Corgi.

She gnaw on it and spent 90 mins on it to finish the feet all. She seemed to like it but,when getting closer to finish,she was munching on it on settle posture because so tiring part of meal.

yassy

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Messages in this topic (10)
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2e. Re: Pig Feet
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 8:18 am ((PDT))

> I've only seen the short feet (about 6" long), but I know that they do sell long feet that >have .meat and muscle from the leg still attached

Hi,Andrea. If you go to Asian market,they sell long thick pinky skinned feet still have some hairs on it.

To be specific,if you live in VA,you can find the long thick feet at Tan-A-market on Broad St in Richmond.I saw it there.

I know waht you mean by 6'' feet,because I have seen it on supermarket as well.
Those are rather skinnier than Asian market one but cutted into length-wise.

What are the difference between supermarket pig feet (thin and whitish) and Asian market pig feet(pinky colored skin with thick and big)?

Is it different breed of pork or something?

yassy

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Messages in this topic (10)
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3a. fat buildup
Posted by: "Felicia Kost" saphiradane@yahoo.com saphiradane
Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 7:18 am ((PDT))

Hi, I am new to raw and so far all is well (I think). I have a odd question that may not even be related to the raw but that is what I am trying to figure out. I have a 15month old dane bitch that has been on raw for about 3 months. I have always kept her a little thin because of being a growing puppy and that seems to be the only way I can keep her, she is very active. Since we started raw she started to finaly gain some weight and looks realy good. My question is, she seems to put fat on the ventral abdomen area and it is making her look like she is lactating( fo course she is not). The area hangs down and is pretty floppy. Is this normal or a dane thing? She looks good everywhere else. Was in heat a few months ago. She is getting mostly chicken and some lamb and now a little fish. Feeding app 2lbs a day. If I cut back her food the fat goes away but she get to thin again. Should I be concerned or is this part of the diet change and gaining weight? Some one told me that
raw dogs often change physicaly as far as the body shape and muscle. Other people ask if she had puppies recently! This may not be raw related but though I get some opinions esp knowing there were several raw dane feeders on the list. Thanks for any advice. Felicia

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Messages in this topic (3)
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3b. Re: fat buildup
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 8:03 am ((PDT))

Felicia Kost <saphiradane@...> wrote:
>My question is, she seems to put fat on the ventral abdomen area and
it is making her look like she is lactating( fo course she is not).
The area hangs down and is pretty floppy. Is this normal or a dane
thing? She looks good everywhere else. Was in heat a few months ago.
She is getting mostly chicken and some lamb and now a little fish.
Feeding app 2lbs a day.
*****
This sort of physical change does not strike me as a result of
calorie intake. It may be the result of a false pregnancy
or other hormonal/glandular issues. What you describe certainly fits
to a "t" the appearance of a bitch of mine that is just coming out of
a false pregnancy.

It doesn't appear that you are feeding too much fat or even too much
food, and I suggest you do not try to fix this by limiting her menu.
The physical changes that typically come of raw feeding are not
flabby ones. You should expect to see more muscles, more defined
muscles; tauter, leaner torsos.

I'm betting on false pregnancy.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
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3c. Re: fat buildup - False Pregnancy
Posted by: "Sandi Hunt" sandihunt@hotmail.com pierrenali
Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 9:44 am ((PDT))

"I'm betting on false pregnancy."

I totally agree, my Dane had several false pregnancies, went so far as to
lactate for a new kitten.

Sandi

_________________________________________________________________
Now you can see trouble…before he arrives

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Messages in this topic (3)
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4a. Re: A few questions
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 7:19 am ((PDT))

Hi, Erica, it sounds like things are going well for you guys.
Feeding Sophie leg quarters and bone in brests is fine for the first
week or so. I wouldn't go out of my way to buy a tub of liver or
hearts and gizzards just yet. Some people hold off on adding organs
for quite a while because they loosen up stools fast. Keep an eye
out for sales on whole birds since they will have the organs in there
too. When I introduced organs I just divided what came with the bird
into four and fed a little with each chicken quarter. You might want
to go a little more slowly if loose stools bother you and/or Sophie.

> Also, Sophie is due for her heart worm prevention pill. Do you
> still use this commercial product?

Nope, we're in an area where heartworm is really rare unless you go
camping a whole lot. I'm not about feeding my boys pesticides "just
in case."

> what do you use for flea & tic prevention? I'm sure there is
> something more natural than what we are using!

I don't use any flea preventative any more, really. Ever since we
switched the pups to raw, they are much less likely to have fleas on
them. A couple of weeks ago both of the dogs were itching
themselves, so I've been going over them with a flea comb and dusting
their skin with food grade diatomaceous earth (DE). I haven't
actually seen a flea on them, but the itching is starting to
subside. I hear you can also sprinkle food grade DE on carpets and
furnature as well. Just a little sprinkle followed by a vaccuum.
Hope this helps.

Andrea

Messages in this topic (26)
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4b. Re: A few questions
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 9:23 am ((PDT))

On Aug 10, 2007, at 5:01 AM, erica wrote:

>
> Also, Sophie is due for her heart worm prevention pill. Do you
> still use this commercial product? Last question, what do you use
> for flea & tic prevention? I'm sure there is something more natural
> than what we are using! That is one of the few chemicals that
> enters this house & I'd love to replace it with something that I can
> feel good about! TIA
> Erica

Soon to be OT for this list but great for Rawchat, but the HW stuff
is a potent neurotoxin and should be avoided. The replacement is your
dog's brilliant health. Most people find this hard to believe at
first, but truly healthy animals do not attract bugs and parasites,
and there is actually only a tiny risk of contracting HW. The life
cycle is very complex and depends on many factors rarely met. See you
over there!

ginny and Tomo

All stunts performed without a net!

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Messages in this topic (26)
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4c. Re: A few questions
Posted by: "Pamela Picard" pet.wellness@yahoo.com pet.wellness
Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 11:13 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "erica" <ericagordon@...> wrote:
>
>
> Prior to feding raw, Sophie had a new, red, itchy spot on her
> tummy. I'm keeping an eye on it but so far it is still there. With
> a little dried blood from scratching. Anything I can do for that?
> I'm not sure if it is from the heat or what.
>
> Erica
>
***
Slightly OT. Red, itchy spots can be staph eruptions or flea
dermatitis or atopic detematitis, too many itis's to count. I apply a
10:1:1 solution of almond oil, lavender oil and Neem oil which I mix
myself. It resolves the itch and doesn't poison your dog if she
ingests it. More frequent bathing with THERANEEM - available online or
at The People's Pharmacy - seems to keep Matisse fairly flea free.

Pamela Picard

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Messages in this topic (26)
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5a. Re: Someone mentioned pig something or other for...
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 7:53 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "angelsnoopers64859"
<angelsnoopers64859@...> wrote:
>
> putting on weight. What was it?
*****
Heck, pig anything should be good for weight gain, as long as your dog
can comfortably digest the fat. Except for the leanest cuts that are
being promoted by the Pork Council as comparable to chicken, pork is a
fatty meat.

What size dog do you have and what kind of weight gain are you looking
for?
Chris O

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6a. Carcinoma
Posted by: "Cindy Mack" cmack@vetspecialty.com cindymack59
Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 8:03 am ((PDT))

I've been lurking for a while now and my husband doesn't believe in raw food
diet - but I need to do something to help my girls -they range from 10.7 -
15 years of age - all have health issues but my youngest was dx'd with
hepatocellular carcinoma last night - anyone have any thoughts that might
help me convince my husband that this is what I need to do? anyone out there
have any experience with cancer? - it is unfortunatley inoperable and I work
for one of the best centers for cancer and sx treatment for dogs and cats in
the midwest - any suggestions/help would be greatly appreciated

Cindy M and the 4 fuzzy butts (Polski Owczarek Nizinny's)

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Messages in this topic (2)
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6b. Re: Carcinoma
Posted by: "Laura Atkinson" llatkinson@gmail.com lauraatkinson2002
Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 9:00 am ((PDT))

I'd do a couple of things, I'd find a homeopath to work with to keep
her as healthy as possible, given her diagnosis.

I'd switch her to raw. Look at this way, if you only had one last
meal to eat, would it be bran muffins and salad or steak and chocolate
cake? <g>. Well, that's not a really good analogy, because for dogs
raw is as healthy as it is tasty...but you get the idea, right?

On 8/10/07, Cindy Mack <cmack@vetspecialty.com> wrote:
> I've been lurking for a while now and my husband doesn't believe in raw food
> diet - but I need to do something to help my girls -they range from 10.7 -
> 15 years of age - all have health issues but my youngest was dx'd with
> hepatocellular carcinoma last night - anyone have any thoughts that might
> help me convince my husband that this is what I need to do? anyone out there
> have any experience with cancer? - it is unfortunatley inoperable and I work
> for one of the best centers for cancer and sx treatment for dogs and cats in
> the midwest - any suggestions/help would be greatly appreciated
>
> Cindy M and the 4 fuzzy butts (Polski Owczarek Nizinny's)
>
>

--
Laura A
Kaos Siberians http://www.kaossiberians.com

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7a. Elk,Venison,Denver Deer
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 8:06 am ((PDT))

Hi. Are Elk,Venison,Denver deer tastes different from each other?

I mean,I know that Elk is bigger size of deer than Denver deer but,if one dog did not take Elk better,chances are the dog not going to touch other kind of deer meat too?

Isit hit or miss type of meat?

thanks

yassy

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7b. Re: Elk,Venison,Denver Deer
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 8:30 am ((PDT))

"Hi. Are Elk,Venison,Denver deer tastes different from each other?"

I don't know about CO but in MT they taste different. My dogs don't have a
preference, but my parents do ;-)

They will only eat Elk, as the rest are too gamey they say and the Elk isn't
- I like them all.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

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7c. Re: Elk,Venison,Denver Deer
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 9:47 am ((PDT))

> My dogs don't have a preference

Hi,Tina. So,for human,it maybe hit or miss but in your dog case,they all welcome then?

I asked these because last night,I fed Elk rib.

My dog ate it but some meat fell from her chewing,she did not want to do anything with it.

So,it was wiered because the meat it did not come off,she ate ok,so,I assumed she can eat it but the meat fell off from her chewing motion,she didn't want to eat it.

So,I was wondering if the Elk is either hit or miss meat.

I try tonight again and see if she does the same..

if she did not touch the meat fell from her mouth,I wonder if searing will help or not..

I will try and see..

Maybe the taste was too unfamiliar and need time to adjust?

Thank you Tina.

yassy

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7d. Re: Elk,Venison,Denver Deer
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 10:06 am ((PDT))

"Maybe the taste was too unfamiliar and need time to adjust?"

Could be if this is the first time they ate it - mine were weaned onto wild
game so they don't know any different - what kind of dogs do you have and
what cut of meat are you feeding?
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

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7e. Re: Elk,Venison,Denver Deer
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 10:37 am ((PDT))

>Could be if this is the first time they ate it -

Hi,Tina.Yes,it was her first time and she had Elk Rib. It was Rib but had some meat on it.

Yesterday,she had Boneless goat and Pork liver,pork kidney and Elk Rib.

She had no hesitence to crunch down the Rib and the meat that still attached to rib seemed to be no problems.Just the one some piece of meat that fell from Elk bone..she did not want it.

> what kind of dogs do you have ?
Mine is Pembroke Corgi.

yassy

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8. Any Korean raw feeders out there?
Posted by: "temy1102" tammy.a.jp@gmail.com temy1102
Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 8:11 am ((PDT))

I keep running into the same Korean lady walking her pug in my new
neighborhood. She commented on how beautiful Grover is and how young
Tod looks; she thought he was a puppy at first, a mistake a lot of
strangers make. When I told her he was 13 years old, she was shocked.

Today she has told me she's going to try out feeding raw tomorrow.
She kept saying she was going to feed "something" but I didn't
understand the word, and later asked my mom and it was WINGS! Darn
it. Gotta tell her her pugster needs more meat than that!

Anyways, my Korean speaking ability is severely limited, like, it
makes other Korean people laugh before they can answer me. Are there
any more fluent speakers/writers out there who can make up a quick
little Basics of Raw Feeding outline for me? I live in Koreatown now,
so I have a feeling I'm going to need it more and more.

Tammy & Grover

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9a. Re: Fat buildup
Posted by: "Felicia Kost" saphiradane@yahoo.com saphiradane
Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 8:30 am ((PDT))

What you describe certainly fits
to a "t" the appearance of a bitch of mine that is just coming out of
a false pregnancy.

It doesn't appear that you are feeding too much fat or even too much
food, and I suggest you do not try to fix this by limiting her menu.
The physical changes that typically come of raw feeding are not
flabby ones. You should expect to see more muscles, more defined
muscles; tauter, leaner torsos. "As I expected and have noticed!"

I'm betting on false pregnancy.
Chris O

Ok, thank you, so u don't think it is diet related? I failed to mention that she is making a mess of her bed and blankets lately and digging at my floor, could this be a symptom. If this is false pregnancy what do I do. Should I wait it out and for how long? Does this required a vet? If this is hormonal does that mean possibly hormones from the meat I buy could cause this I try to go as natural as I can afford? Don't mean to get off topic just glad for any advice. Thanks Felicia

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9b. Re: Fat buildup
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 9:47 am ((PDT))

"I failed to mention that she is making a mess of her bed and blankets
lately and digging at my floor, could this be a symptom. If this is false
pregnancy what do I do. Should I wait it out and for how long? Does this
required a vet?"

That definitely sounds like false pregnancy - no vet required - just let her
do her thing. I forget how long they last - a month or so??
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

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9c. Re: Fat buildup
Posted by: "merril Woolf" merril@kentfieldwhippets.com whippetsrus2002
Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 11:00 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Felicia Kost <saphiradane@...> wrote:
>
> What you describe certainly fits
> to a "t" the appearance of a bitch of mine that is just coming out of
> a false pregnancy.

> Ok, thank you, so u don't think it is diet related? I failed to mention that she is making
a mess of her bed and blankets lately and digging at my floor, could this be a symptom. If
this is false pregnancy what do I do. Should I wait it out and for how long? Does this
required a vet? If this is hormonal does that mean possibly hormones from the meat I buy
could cause this I try to go as natural as I can afford? Don't mean to get off topic just glad
for any advice. Thanks Felicia

Many bitches have a false pregnancy that lasts **15 weeks** from the beginning of the
season to when the hormones will finally revert back to normal.
People with working dogs will notice this change more than the average pet owner so we
have a lot of experience with it. In a word - it sucks.

You don't need vet intervention, just good food, moderate exercise and the patience to
wait out the 15 weeks before you will see your bitch get back her body.

Keep her lean and once the 15 weeks is up, get her back on a good exercise program and
you'll be fine. Good luck,

Merril
Whippets

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10. Any dogs 10+ years on raw?
Posted by: "lmclaen" lmclaen@yahoo.com lmclaen
Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 9:44 am ((PDT))

Hi everyone,

Kiwi has been on raw a full week - her stools firmed up and she
*loves* meal time! And I am enjoying it too, knowing I am doing the
best for her.

My question is: does anyone have a dog who has been fed raw for 10 or
more years, and what is the dog like, coat/teeth/ears/health in
general? I'm curious :) and looking forward to seeing it for myself.

TIA! Laeny

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