[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11908

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. My dog is gaining weight but doesn't need to – help!
From: lmclaen
1b. Re: My dog is gaining weight but doesn't need to – help!
From: Andrea
1c. Re: My dog is gaining weight but doesn't need to – help!
From: Carol
1d. Re: My dog is gaining weight but doesn't need to – help!
From: costrowski75
1e. Re: My dog is gaining weight but doesn't need to – help!
From: lmclaen
1f. Re: My dog is gaining weight but doesn't need to – help!
From: lmclaen
1g. Re: My dog is gaining weight but doesn't need to – help!
From: temy1102
1h. Re: My dog is gaining weight but doesn't need to – help!
From: Andrea
1i. Re: My dog is gaining weight but doesn't need to – help!
From: Carol

2a. Re: the trouble w/pork bones
From: Andrea
2b. Re: the trouble w/pork bones
From: Yasuko herron
2c. Re: the trouble w/pork bones
From: Pamela Picard

3a. Re: weight loss
From: natgs
3b. Re: weight loss
From: Nathalie Poulin
3c. Re: weight loss
From: Doni

4a. Re: changing diet for IBS Toy Poodle
From: ginny wilken

5. butcher time for lamb
From: lhmcmaken

6a. Re: Anyone add vinegar to their dogs drinking water
From: ginny wilken

7a. Re: Weston A. Price Foundation/Grass-fed meat (was Re: meat from far
From: Yasuko herron

8a. Re: bone and blood in the stool
From: Yasuko herron

9a. Re: Quantity to feed?
From: harrynala

10. Which bones/meat are best?
From: harrynala

11a. Deer meat
From: trayc2244

12. BONE
From: abooot99

13. Nibbling on grazing animals faeces?
From: harrynala

Messages
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1a. My dog is gaining weight but doesn't need to – help!
Posted by: "lmclaen" lmclaen@yahoo.com lmclaen
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 7:44 am ((PDT))

Kiwi is a 2½ year old Labrador; she has some powerful jaws and from
everything I have read here she needs to have decent sized cuts of
meat. However… she is a very small Lab, a healthy weight on her is
40-41 pounds. She doesn't need a lot of food to keep her at that
weight. On kibble, she only had 1.5 cups a day of Canidae to
maintain her weight.

Now on raw (for 1½ weeks) I have been feeding her chicken - a
drumstick in the morning and the thigh in the evening. For the past
couple of days I've thought she looked heavier, so I weighed her –
sure enough she is at 43.5 pounds. I do not want her to gain weight.

From what I have read, she will need more than chicken once she is
used to raw feeding, and she will need bigger cuts to truly give her
teeth the cleaning that raw gives. I don't know what to do, what to
feed her, so that she will maintain a healthy weight, isn't chicken
the leanest I can feed her?

TIA for all your advice. Laeny

Messages in this topic (9)
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1b. Re: My dog is gaining weight but doesn't need to – help!
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:03 am ((PDT))

Since she's not a pup anymore, I would suggest feeding her once a
day. A whole chicken quarter looks bigger and takes more energy to
eat than a drumstick in the morning and a thigh at night. Once she
is eating once a day you can give her big food and just pick it up
when she's had enough for the day.

Lots of dogs gain muscle mass when they start a raw diet and gain
some pounds, so I wouldn't worry too much about her weight on the
scale. But since you said she looks bigger, I would go by that. She
might just not need a lot of food to maintain a healthy weight.
Don't worry about her gaining weight just yet, she's still in the
transition period. Once you both get more comfortable with raw
feeding I'm sure everything will work out ok. Keep an eye on that
waistline and let us know if it keeps getting larger.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "lmclaen" <lmclaen@...> wrote:
>
> For the past couple of days I've thought she looked heavier, so I
> weighed her – sure enough she is at 43.5 pounds. I do not want her
> to gain weight.

Messages in this topic (9)
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1c. Re: My dog is gaining weight but doesn't need to – help!
Posted by: "Carol" onejoyfulmoose@yahoo.com onejoyfulmoose
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:16 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "lmclaen" <lmclaen@...> wrote:
>
> Kiwi is a 2½ year old Labrador; I do not want her to gain weight.
>
Just use the weight as a guideline for what is right for her, a larger
bone structure will weight more than light bone structure, can you feel
her ribs? If not, she's too fat.

Is she getting lots of exercise? Or, a couch potatoe (I have one of
those)

If she's spayed she might tend to gain weight easier. And if these
kinds of things aren't the cause, have a full panel thyroid test done.
Thyroid issues can cause all types of problems from weight loss, weight
gain, aggression, lack of energy, etc.

Carol
Dog Owner, Ohio >

Messages in this topic (9)
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1d. Re: My dog is gaining weight but doesn't need to – help!
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:44 am ((PDT))

"lmclaen" <lmclaen@...> wrote:
> From what I have read, she will need more than chicken once she is
> used to raw feeding, and she will need bigger cuts to truly give
her
> teeth the cleaning that raw gives. I don't know what to do, what to
> feed her, so that she will maintain a healthy weight, isn't chicken
> the leanest I can feed her?
*****
--Feed her an appropriate amount of food once a day.
--Or feed her double that but every other day.
--Or feed her once a day, but once a week feed her a bigger, more
complicated and involving meaty RMB meal and skip the next day.
--Increase her exercise.
--Have a full thyroid work up done.

You cannot remove all the fat from her menu. Dogs have two building
blocks in their nutritional pyramid--protein and fat. She needs
both. Feeding her just lean chicken is not the way to keep her fit
and healthy. Feed a variety of meats, feed a variety of body parts,
feed bony meals and meaty meals and fat meals and lean meals.

When one is feeding an easy keeper, one must use all the tools
available. I really recommend you feed once a day or less. Use
occasional no-food days so that you can give her occasional big food
days to clean her teeth and gums and provide some all around exercise
and fun.

And if she doesn't have several jobs to keep her busy, try to invent
some. Organized activity almost always burns more calories than
hanging out does.

Chris O

Messages in this topic (9)
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1e. Re: My dog is gaining weight but doesn't need to – help!
Posted by: "lmclaen" lmclaen@yahoo.com lmclaen
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:46 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Andrea" <poketmouse45@...> wrote:
>
> Since she's not a pup anymore, I would suggest feeding her once a
> day.
----------------------------------------------------------
Oh I just had a feeling someone would say that! Ugh... I dread the
retraining of her AND me for this one!! She hovers and stares when
it's time to eat, she (and I) have gotten very used to the twice a day
routine.

> Don't worry about her gaining weight just yet, she's still in the
> transition period. Once you both get more comfortable with raw
> feeding I'm sure everything will work out ok. Keep an eye on that
> waistline and let us know if it keeps getting larger.
----------------------------------------------------------
Will do, I appreciate your advice! Laeny

Messages in this topic (9)
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1f. Re: My dog is gaining weight but doesn't need to – help!
Posted by: "lmclaen" lmclaen@yahoo.com lmclaen
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:52 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Carol" <onejoyfulmoose@...> wrote:
Just use the weight as a guideline for what is right for her, a larger
bone structure will weight more than light bone structure, can you
feel her ribs? If not, she's too fat. Is she getting lots of
exercise? Or, a couch potatoe (I have one of those)
------------------------------------------------------------
She has a light, delicate bone structure, most people mistake her for
a puppy. I can feel her ribs easily, and she still has a nice waist.
But she has changed, I can tell but it's hard to explain! Oh and she
is a coach potato, loves her walks but prefers to lay around. Thanks
so much for your advice - Laeny

Messages in this topic (9)
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1g. Re: My dog is gaining weight but doesn't need to – help!
Posted by: "temy1102" tammy.a.jp@gmail.com temy1102
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:16 am ((PDT))

Tell me about it.... I have a dog who was fed kibble twice a day, 9am
and 5pm on the dot because he will whine exactly on time, and increase
the volume if food is not immediately forthcoming! A very punctual guy.

But since starting on raw, I decided to grit my teeth and bear it, and
at first I fed him twice a day, and then a larger meal once a day,
which was less painful than I thought. Probably because he's getting
fuller than he normally is and not as as hungry in the morning. Small
frequent meals are good for humans, but not for dogs. You might
notice that your dog will hover less when she's getting bigger meals.

Still, at 5pm my dog will start crying for food, but I followed the
example of some people here and started changing dinnertime to be
anywhere from 3pm to 9pm, to keep him on his toes. It helps some.
Sometimes I just make plans to be out of the house at that time.

Of course, if you have a real chowhound, you're out of luck. My
doberman will eat her 5 lb. leg of lamb, and then stare at me,
drooling, while I eat my dinner.

Tammy & Grover

Messages in this topic (9)
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1h. Re: My dog is gaining weight but doesn't need to – help!
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:16 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "lmclaen" <lmclaen@...> wrote:

> Oh I just had a feeling someone would say that! Ugh... I dread the
> retraining of her AND me for this one!! She hovers and stares when
> it's time to eat, she (and I) have gotten very used to the twice a
> day routine.

I totally understand, changing routines can be a huge PITA for all of
us. But both of you will benefit from throwing the schedule out the
window! I'm assuming that she eats both meals at a set time in the
day, so step one for me would be to make those times random.
Sometimes meal one happens an hour earlier than she expected,
sometimes meal two is an hour later, etc. ***Let it be known that as
soon as you start to mess with the schedule she's used to she's
probably going to have the bile vomit. When she thinks it is about
time to eat, her stomach will start producing the digestive juices to
get ready. But if the food doesn't come, those juices just sit there
and irritate her stomach, so she'll puke them up. This is perfectly
normal though upsetting for the human. Once you have sufficiently
randomized feeding time, this won't happen anymore.

Step two will be much easier after she has stopped expecting food at
certain times of the day: move to one meal. You can start making one
meal bigger while the other gets smaller until one of them goes away,
or you can start moving am and pm mealtimes closer together until
they meet somewhere in the middle. Hope that helps!

Andrea

Messages in this topic (9)
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1i. Re: My dog is gaining weight but doesn't need to – help!
Posted by: "Carol" onejoyfulmoose@yahoo.com onejoyfulmoose
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 12:21 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "lmclaen" <lmclaen@...> wrote:
> )
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> She has a light, delicate bone structure, I can feel her ribs
easily, and she still has a nice waist. > But she has changed, I can l
but it's hard to explain!

- Laeny
>
She just might be maturing. Sounds like she's in terrific shape. I
have to watch the weight on my coach potatoe. There have been times I
couldn't find his ribs through the hair and excess weight.

Carol

Messages in this topic (9)
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2a. Re: the trouble w/pork bones
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:17 am ((PDT))

Pork shoulder (aka Picnic roast) is an old standby at my house.
Neither of the pups could consume the bone early on, but at about 4
months they were able to do more than just gnaw on it. It is a big
bone, so your little ones might not be able to completely consume it,
but it is a pretty soft bone so there is no harm in letting them try.
Pork ribs are fantastic eating if you can find them for cheap. I
usually can't, so since Tycho has gotten some of his adult teeth in I
don't splurge on them often. Meaty pork neck is good as well, as long
as it isn't cut up really small. If you can get meaty cuts for cheap
(lucky you) you can add a pig's foot here and there for some good
edible bone as well. Hope that helps some.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "pigasus718" <pigasus718@...> wrote:

> I read we shouldn't give bones that have been cut by butcher's saw.
> right? So, what can I use for pork rmb?

Messages in this topic (4)
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2b. Re: the trouble w/pork bones
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:17 am ((PDT))

>Problem is I'm having trouble with finding pork rmb.

Hi,Robyn.

Pork I have fed..

Pork butt (If you have Ukrop near you,this week,they sell POrk picnic or butt $1.68/lb)

Pork chop (cut out the little tiny bone out before feeding)

Pork Loin

Pork Ribs (spare rib,Back rib.No need to get rid ob bone out because rib bones seems soft like chicken)

Pork Heart (you can feed as boneless meat)

Pork Tongue (You can feed as boneless meat)

Pork Neck (My Corgi ate all bone)

Pork Feet (Took long time to finish off,but Corgi ate all)

Pork ear (More like snack)

If your dog got soft poo problems,try feed combo meal with chicken

and if still soft,try add more bone to meal

If that did not help, try consider getting help from Slippery Elm powder to sooth the stomach of your dog

If your dog got constipated by ..say pork feet,give more meat and reduce bone from meal

When your dog get used to these andyou think they areready,you also can feed Pork liver and Pork kidney. My dog gets it once a week (I am roating among chicken,Beef etc's organ) about 5% daily intake each organ;5% kidney,5% liver.

Hope this helps.

yassy

---------------------------------
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Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.

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Messages in this topic (4)
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2c. Re: the trouble w/pork bones
Posted by: "Pamela Picard" pet.wellness@yahoo.com pet.wellness
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 12:22 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "pigasus718" <pigasus718@...> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
> Started raw 2 1/2wks ago. My guys are doing great. Fed chicken for
> first 2wks. no problem, no cannon butt(thank God). Now, I've started
> pork as second meat. Going great, dogs love it. Problem is I'm >
BTW, did any of you go through a period of guilt and anger with
> yourself for feeding your dogs kibble? I am so ticked off at myself
> to think of all the years that I have been "killing" my little guys
> out of ignorance.
>
> Thanks for suggestions and letting me vent there at the end.
>
> Robyn
>
***
Oh yes, big time guilt. Sometimes I still wonder if my dog will
survive my ignorance. LOL

You can't know what you don't know. And you certainly don't get good
information from resources you once thought "authoritative." We live.
We err. We learn. We grow.

Thank God for the Internet and such great groups for support.

Pamela

Messages in this topic (4)
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3a. Re: weight loss
Posted by: "natgs" natgs@yahoo.com natgs
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:49 am ((PDT))

Doni,

"Fist fast" was a typo. I meant to write "first fast". Sounds like her
stools were OK before. Does she only refuse raw or both raw and
kibble? If it's both, then I think she's regulating whatever problem
she's having by fasting herself. If it's only raw, then she may be
associating whatever problem she's having with it and thus refusing
it. (I don't think it's the variety issue, since you give her plenty
of different meats.) At any rate, I would not recommend mixing the
two, because it may do more harm.

I would still fast her for a day or so. Then I would give her
something that would be really easy on her system, e.g. chicken broth
with chunks of chicken in it. I would also give her some probiotics to
help her grow 'good' bacteria. (Typically, I'd recommend yogurt or
kefir as a good source of probiotics. However, since her digestive
system is sensitive now, it's best to eliminate any possible
irritations such as even a small amount of dairy).

I had similar problems with my pup when I started: frequent diarrhea,
not enough weight, etc. Fell free to write to me direct and I'll be
happy to share my experiences with you. In a nutshell though, he was
simply not digesting his food properly.

Natalya

>
> Sorry, what's fist fast? Before she went refused the raw, her
> stools were getting condensed and turned chalky after day or two.
> But she is actually refusing raw right now. I'm concerned about her
> weight loss, she's naturally thin, but looking rather poorly right
> this moment.
>
> Doni
>

Messages in this topic (13)
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3b. Re: weight loss
Posted by: "Nathalie Poulin" poulin_nathalie@yahoo.ca poulin_nathalie
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:13 am ((PDT))

I was under the impression that dogs stomachs were too
acidic for yogurt and that any probiotics from kefir
or yogurt would die immediately in the stomach without
being any benefit to the dog?
Could somone clarify this for me please?
Does chicken broth really help? Are the chunks of
chicken cooked or raw?

Nathalie

> e.g. chicken broth
> with chunks of chicken in it. I would also give her
> some probiotics to
> help her grow 'good' bacteria. (Typically, I'd
> recommend yogurt or
> kefir as a good source of probiotics.

Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo! Answers and share what you know at http://ca.answers.yahoo.com

Messages in this topic (13)
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3c. Re: weight loss
Posted by: "Doni" nsdbernd@yahoo.com nsdbernd
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:16 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "natgs" <natgs@...> wrote:
>
> Doni,
>
> "Fist fast" was a typo. I meant to write "first fast". Sounds like
her
> stools were OK before. Does she only refuse raw or both raw and
> kibble? If it's both, then I think she's regulating whatever problem
> she's having by fasting herself. If it's only raw, then she may be
> associating whatever problem she's having with it and thus refusing
> it. (I don't think it's the variety issue, since you give her plenty
> of different meats.) At any rate, I would not recommend mixing the
> two, because it may do more harm.
>
> I would still fast her for a day or so. Then I would give her
> something that would be really easy on her system, e.g. chicken
broth
> with chunks of chicken in it. I would also give her some probiotics
to
> help her grow 'good' bacteria. (Typically, I'd recommend yogurt or
> kefir as a good source of probiotics. However, since her digestive
> system is sensitive now, it's best to eliminate any possible
> irritations such as even a small amount of dairy).
>
> I had similar problems with my pup when I started: frequent
diarrhea,
> not enough weight, etc. Fell free to write to me direct and I'll be
> happy to share my experiences with you. In a nutshell though, he was
> simply not digesting his food properly.
>
> Natalya
>
> >
> > Sorry, what's fist fast? Before she went refused the raw, her
> > stools were getting condensed and turned chalky after day or
two.
> > But she is actually refusing raw right now. I'm concerned about
her
> > weight loss, she's naturally thin, but looking rather poorly
right
> > this moment.
> >
> > Doni
> >
>
Natalya,
Thanks for the info. On Sat night/SUnday she refused RAW, so I gave
her some kibble on Sun and she ate, but then had the diarrhea.
Monday she ate ground beef and devoured it!! and no diarrhea. So
maybe it was me not giving RAW enough of a chance and then giving her
the kibble that made her have the diarrhea. I have probiotics that I
am giving her over the food.
So will a dog eventually eat RAW if I refuse to feed her kibble???
She was just soo thin.
Thanks, Doni

Messages in this topic (13)
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4a. Re: changing diet for IBS Toy Poodle
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:29 am ((PDT))

On Aug 14, 2007, at 5:29 AM, amanda wrote:

> HI Ginny, Thanks for your information, which meats are more easily
> absorbed and digested? Thanks Amanda and pippin.

I'm not sure I understand your question. Raw ones, whole ones, things
the animal has to work at to swallow, as they stimulate enyzme
secretion. For starters, pick any one convenient protein and stick
with that one for a week or so to reaccustom the digestive tract to
raw; then branch out. We have ever so much guiding resource material
and links, so please consult the website and the list that is
published each week.

If you have more specific concerns, please go ahead and ask, and
someone will answer.

ginny and Tomo

All stunts performed without a net!

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5. butcher time for lamb
Posted by: "lhmcmaken" lhmcmaken@yahoo.com lhmcmaken
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:13 am ((PDT))

Hello. I have a chance to get whatever i want when a friend butchers
her lamb. what should I ask for and what is a fair price? I am
feeding my two danes raw now and am in week three. both have gained
weight and love it. thanks.
take care,
lynda, maude and franklin

Messages in this topic (1)
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6a. Re: Anyone add vinegar to their dogs drinking water
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:14 am ((PDT))

On Aug 14, 2007, at 5:55 AM, ohboyx3 wrote:

>
>>
> Thank you all for your great responses.
>
> Carol, The vinegar was suggested because I wanted more results with
> his teeth and breath. If he does have a yeast imbalance is there
> something else I should do?
>
> It was suggested that I start with white vinegar to ease him into the
> taste and then to switch to acv. I will switch right away. Is
> there a
> better brand that I should try to find at my health food store?
>
> How much should I add to his water and should I start at a lower
> dilution and work up?

I wouldn't bother. If he is getting appropriate food items in
appropriate sizes and textures, his teeth and breath should get as
good as they can be. If there are still problems after several
months, we'd need to look further into his health or fine tune his
diet, or both.

ginny and Tomo

All stunts performed without a net!

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7a. Re: Weston A. Price Foundation/Grass-fed meat (was Re: meat from far
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:14 am ((PDT))

>http://www.westonaprice.org/localchapters/index.html

Thanks,Laurie. This link maybe good for everyone as well.

Now,I don't see what they grow in the list so,I need to ask them what they grow?

yassy

---------------------------------
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Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search.

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8a. Re: bone and blood in the stool
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:15 am ((PDT))

>> I mean,if one people feed just chicken,dog gets allegy problems?

>Probably not but they won't get all the nutrients they need either.

Hi,Bill.So,feeding one protin all time don't develop allegy like you hear for kibble then.
It is just that dog cannot get all they need from 1 single thing then.

Thanks.I was just curious.

yassy

---------------------------------
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9a. Re: Quantity to feed?
Posted by: "harrynala" michelle@synertex.co.uk harrynala
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:15 am ((PDT))

> Don't look at the numbers, look at your dogs. Are they gaining
> weight at 3%? If so, feed less. If they're losing weight, feed
> more. 2-3% is just a starting point.

Many thanks for your reply Crystal. I have gone a few days with
giving her ALOT more, and she eats it all, looks like a weeble for a
while then promptly throws up! That lambs head I mentioned in my
original post - that got returned to me after a while aswell!

I've tried a few more times giving her as much beef as she wants,
that also gets returned to me if she eats too much!

My boy however, will eat a little bit more than 3% if it's given to
him and then leave her to vacuum the rest up for him :D

With her still only being 8 months old, I had understood that it was
unwise to feed too much as their tums are still quite small, or does
that only apply to really young pups? I am currently splitting her 3
% into 2 meals a day which I had intended to do until she is 12
months.

Any thoughts on this?

Many thanks in advance
Michelle

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10. Which bones/meat are best?
Posted by: "harrynala" michelle@synertex.co.uk harrynala
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:21 am ((PDT))

Hi everyone,

I live in rural Eastern Europe and struggle to get a wide range of
suitable RMBs, so just wanted to check that what I do feed is ok.

For the most part I feed half chickens, and meaty beef ribs. I also
feed seared beef offal occasionally (they still won't eat it totally
raw), occasional lambs head plus canned fish, and eggs.

Having read here that the meat to bone ratio should be 80%, I'm now
wondering whether I'm getting the proportions right. So, my questions
are this:

1) I've read here that beef ribs could wear the teeth down.
They kill their beef here at 9 mths old (I know UK is normally 36mths) -
being from a younger animal, would this make it less of an issue for
their teeth? Plus I've read here to avoid bones cut with a butchers
saw due to the sharp edges. Everything here is sawn! It's currently
the only RMB beef I can get hold of, the rest is expensive cuts. I've
not had a problem with sharp edges and their teeth look good to me -
for the long term tho, should I ditch the ribs or are these only minor
concerns?

2) I feed lambs heads whole, my 8 mth old girl will eat the lot, my 16
mth old boy only picks at his. Is this a suitable RMB or is this not
enough meat to bone ratio? I'm just wondering whether to persevere with
my boy or not? Again, other than the heads, lamb is generally expensive
here, I can occasionally get the ribs, but usually as a treat.

3) Chicken is easy - they like it, and I could feed it much more,
although I had previously understood it was not the best food source as
it has less of the required nutrients than other meats. Is this true?

4) I have refrained from feeding pork as I had read it is associated
with pancreatitis and trichinosis, plus pigs are all stall reared here
as they like lots of pig fat, so it is quite fatty. Do you think I am
being overcautious?

I have yet to find the local abattoir which would be a godsend, the
language barrier is proving to be a bit of problem, especially when
they discover I want meat for my dogs .... the majority of dogs here
are fed bread and water, so you can imagine the looks I get when I go
through the whole "I want bones with meat on", "Why?" "For my dog" "For
your dog?" "Why? What's wrong with bread?" .... I think you get the
picture :D

Any help appreciated

Michelle

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11a. Deer meat
Posted by: "trayc2244" BreeZ119@catt.com trayc2244
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 12:21 pm ((PDT))

I have gotten lucky enough to score a huge amount of deer meat as soon
as hunting season opens. I need to know the rules when it comes to
deer meat, please.
Does it need to be frozen for a certain amount of time before fed?
How often can I feed deer meat, I'm assuming it can't be everyday?
Can I feed deer trachea, heart, lungs, spleen, head...ect?
Anything else I need to know about deer meat?
I've never fed deer meat so I'm clueless about it. Thanks for any help.

Tracy

Messages in this topic (2)
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12. BONE
Posted by: "abooot99" abooot99@yahoo.com abooot99
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 12:23 pm ((PDT))

Hi all,

I have been feeding my dog raw since May or June of this year and
recently for the past few weeks has been refusing alot of his meals
including chicken which he ate well at first. He now wants nothing to
do with chicken and so given that, I am having a hard time getting
bone into him. He doesnt love turkey either. I did at the beginning
purchase bravo ground lamb with bone and he does eat that but I dont
feed it every meal. As is he doesnt eat right away the food I do give
him. People have told me to take it up after 20 min but he is the
type that likes to eat bits here and there. If I leave food out all
night, he will go out sometimes in the middle of the night when it is
cool out and will eat it. I left out beef heart out for a few hours
and he took strip by strip outside. Didnt eat it but left it on the
lawn. He also left a piece on the floor in the kitchen. This morning,
it was gone. He seems to be a night eater but still, won't touch
bone. The only exception to this is that when I bring him to my moms
house, her dog had a turkey drum stick that he stole and ate some of,
even the bone. He is just so picky and it is frusterating that he
wont eat in a timely fashion and he looks thinner to me. I did catch
him sneaking the cat food a few times though. When we eat, he acts
like he is starving. He likes cooked seasoned meat. He never refuses
that but the bland raw, he leaves until he is starving and swallows
with no enthusiasm (like when my mom used to make me eat peas). I
feel bad when he doesnt enjoy his meals. He does like eggs and canned
mackeral, sardines, salmon.....what do I do. He is getting his annual
vet exam with fecal and urinalyisis on friday... What do you think?
Amanda

Messages in this topic (1)
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13. Nibbling on grazing animals faeces?
Posted by: "harrynala" michelle@synertex.co.uk harrynala
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 12:32 pm ((PDT))

So, this may seem a bit of a strange question...

I'm an expat living in a very rural Eastern European village, where
everyone lives self-sufficient and most of the animals wander freely
along the dirt track streets of the village.

It is all very Monty Python, VERY free range and quite nice really -
everyones dogs also roam free and are all friends too.

Anyway... as a result there is ALOT of goat, sheep, cow and horse poo
here and there, and my dogs seem to find it quite tasty!

My husband thinks it's gross and stops them from eating it, whereas I
have tended to take the view that if they think they need it, let
them eat it :D

So, my question, is this ok? is it normal? does it mean their diet
is deficient in something? are there any negatives to them eating
it? etc etc!!

BTW - I feed RMB, probably a bit too much bone at the moment and
probably not enough offal (however am addressing this since joining
this group).

Many thanks in advance
Michelle

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