[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12034

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Pork intolerance?
From: cresco299
1b. Re: Pork intolerance?
From: Morledzep@aol.com
1c. Re: Pork intolerance?
From: Yasuko herron
1d. Re: Pork intolerance?
From: costrowski75
1e. Re: Pork intolerance?
From: Giselle

2a. Re: Time for a trip to the vet?
From: Morledzep@aol.com
2b. Re: Time for a trip to the vet?
From: Sonja
2c. Re: Time for a trip to the vet?
From: Laurie Swanson
2d. Time for a trip to the vet?
From: Ivette Casiano

3a. Sheep? and re-intro
From: lauraanimal1
3b. Re: Sheep? and re-intro
From: Giselle
3c. Re: Sheep? and re-intro
From: cypressbunny

4a. Re: eating 4 day old buried meaty bone?
From: Tracy Meal
4b. Re: eating 4 day old buried meaty bone?
From: woofwoofgrrl

5a. Long-haired Lap Dogs
From: Renate
5b. Re: Long-haired Lap Dogs
From: pelle567

6a. goat changed to lamb
From: Terri Leist
6b. Re: goat changed to lamb
From: cypressbunny

7a. Re: goats?
From: Laurie Swanson

8a. Re: breed specific
From: Dina

9a. Re: Swallowing big bones whole?!
From: Laurie Swanson

10a. anal sacs?
From: johkemp
10b. Re: anal sacs?
From: heather pavelin

11a. Re: My senior dog has been on raw a week
From: delcaste

12.1. Re: new member
From: johkemp

Messages
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1a. Pork intolerance?
Posted by: "cresco299" gentry.jeffrey@yahoo.com cresco299
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2007 2:16 pm ((PDT))

I've been feeding raw for almost 3 months now and my girls get a
slightly varied diet of Beef, Pork, Chicken and offal. 4 Days a week
they get chicken, 1 day beef, 1 day pork and 1 day offal. I accepted
the fact that at the beginning, meat farts are the norm and they did
subsided within a week of starting raw. But Bailey (7 yr old aussie
shep/blue healer) continues to release these silent but deadly gases
after every pork feeding. My other dog doesn't seem to have this
problem.

Is it possible she is having problems with pork? Or do I need to
consider feeding her pork more often to allow the "good stomach bugs"
to grow.

Jeff and Bailey

Messages in this topic (5)
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1b. Re: Pork intolerance?
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2007 2:35 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 9/13/2007 1:16:24 PM Pacific Standard Time,
gentry.jeffrey@yahoo.com writes:

Is it possible she is having problems with pork? Or do I need to
consider feeding her pork more often to allow the "good stomach bugs"
to grow.

Jeff,

After some 4 or 5 years of raw feeding all of my dogs still have stinkbutt
after fatty meals. Pork and Lamb are the worst offenders.. and duck comes in a
close third. But goat seems to cause little or no harmful odors.

Catherine R.

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

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Messages in this topic (5)
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1c. Re: Pork intolerance?
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2007 4:22 pm ((PDT))

>After some 4 or 5 years of raw feeding all of my dogs still have stinkbutt after fatty meals.

Hi. Palette too! She has bad one after Beef,but she seems quite self concious and,she goes to bathroom and do fart and come back to us human with dragging smell.

It is wiered... My husband and I goes " she went to bathroom,so,maybe come back with stink" and sure enough she did.

yassy

---------------------------------
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Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.

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Messages in this topic (5)
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1d. Re: Pork intolerance?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:06 pm ((PDT))

"cresco299" <gentry.jeffrey@...> wrote:
>
> I've been feeding raw for almost 3 months now and my girls get a
> slightly varied diet of Beef, Pork, Chicken and offal. 4 Days a
week
> they get chicken, 1 day beef, 1 day pork and 1 day offal.
*****
After three months you can start backing off on the chicken. Four
days a week is a lot of chicken. I recommend you mix it up more.

But Bailey (7 yr old aussie
> shep/blue healer) continues to release these silent but deadly gases
> after every pork feeding.
*****
Personally I think farts are generally overrated as issues to worry
about.

Is it possible she is having problems with pork?
*****
If there were "problems" you'd be seeing distress. Unless Bailey
suffers from his gas, or suffers in addition to his gas, I'd say your
best bet would be to keep on keeping on, on the assumption that time
will resolve this. Should you really want to intervene, you can try
leaner pork or smaller meals or feeding a pork/other meat combo meal.

My dogs have not had, to date, significant digestive issues
correspond with gas, belches or grumbly stomach; the few times there
WERE digestive problems--bloat, pancreatitis, "upset stomach"--the
plumbing was dead silent. Nothing moved up or down or back or
forth. Dead in the water. I prefer to know things are happening.

When my husband complains about doggie fumes I gently remind him that
he who is without sin may cast the first stone.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (5)
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1e. Re: Pork intolerance?
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:15 pm ((PDT))

YUP. You want to worry when there are no bowel sounds! Noisy bellies
are happy bellies, imo.

Talk about casting stones, who out there *never* get the SBDs, or
complete blowouts - from eating, oh, Mexican. or BBQ?

^_^

TC
G

> My dogs have not had, to date, significant digestive issues
> correspond with gas, belches or grumbly stomach; the few times there
> WERE digestive problems--bloat, pancreatitis, "upset stomach"--the
> plumbing was dead silent. Nothing moved up or down or back or
> forth. Dead in the water. I prefer to know things are happening.
>
> When my husband complains about doggie fumes I gently remind him that
> he who is without sin may cast the first stone.
> Chris O
>

Messages in this topic (5)
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2a. Re: Time for a trip to the vet?
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2007 2:17 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 9/12/2007 2:31:30 PM Pacific Standard Time,
ladyver@sbcglobal.net writes:

I fed her two turkey necks (one AM one PM) to clear it up but it had a
minimal effect. Can I give her only turkey necks for a few days in a row? I thought
it would be way too much bone....

Sonja,

digestion takes time.. if you feed turkey necks until her poop is firm or
hard, you're asking for constipation, because there will still be more bone in
her system.

When my dogs have loose stools that continue for more than a day or two, i
fast them for one day, feed them a moderatly bony meal the next day and
something slightly less bony the day after that. Usually by then their poops are back
to normal.

IF you do something like this and her poop doesn't get better, or gets
runnier, then it's time for a trip to the vet. At least that's how it works at my
house.

Catherine R.

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (11)
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2b. Re: Time for a trip to the vet?
Posted by: "Sonja" ladyver@sbcglobal.net lonepalm77
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2007 2:59 pm ((PDT))

Catherine,

That's great advice...thank you. I will follow it. I didn't feed this morning so I won't feed again tonight.

Sonja

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Messages in this topic (11)
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2c. Re: Time for a trip to the vet?
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:11 pm ((PDT))

Sonja,

I don't think a lack of organs would be related to diarrhea. I was
thinking if you HAD fed organs it might have contributed to it, but
guess that's not it!

Is she still having diarrhea today? How bad is it? Do you think she
might've been stressed by the big day on Sat. and/or the interaction
with the other dog?

Have you ever used classical homeopathy? Sounds like there might be
other issues, too (the violent itchies), and all of it would probably
benefit.

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sonja" <ladyver@...> wrote:
>
> Laurie,
>
> Kodie hasn't had organs for quite some time (could that be the
problem?), she had a violent reaction to chicken liver a few months
ago (chicken allergies are my guess). She itched 'til she bled.

Messages in this topic (11)
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2d. Time for a trip to the vet?
Posted by: "Ivette Casiano" ivettecasiano@yahoo.com ivettecasiano
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2007 6:38 pm ((PDT))

Sonja, could she have gotten into something outside, or something you fed her was very, very ripe, could you have fed her too much liver, too much fat, a bad piece of meat? Why aren't you giving her bone? Isn't not giving her bone going in the opposite direction?

Ivette Casiano
"Live for today, plan for tomorrow"

---------------------------------
Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.

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Messages in this topic (11)
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3a. Sheep? and re-intro
Posted by: "lauraanimal1" lauraanimal1@yahoo.com lauraanimal1
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2007 4:20 pm ((PDT))

Sorry guys its been a while since I been on here for many reasons
and I forgot that I prolly needed to reintoduce myself. My name is
Laura and I have a Rotti that "was" on raw, but everytime we went to
her "boyfriends" house for her to play tye 1st thing she did was eat
his kibble. I was tried everything and she would act like it wasnt
even her. Well I had to move and she refused to eat the raw after I
had to have her "boyfriends" mom take care of her for a few days, I
gave her normal raw food for her to eat, but she didnt feed it to
her....anyway I was in the process of moving and Ishta refused to
eat for almost a week only wanting kibble so i gave in, ( I know I
know VERY VERY BAD MOMMY!!!!!). Now I am moved, settled in and am
finding places to get lots of raw. And thjis time she wants on it!!!
yeahhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!! anyway I asked earlier about the buthcer and
the wild game, but what about sheep? I have never heard of that one
being feed, I know the hide wouldnt be a good thing unless it has
been shaved???? but what about the rest of the meat? i mean it seems
like she should be able to eat it, I mean think of the comment wolf
in sheeps clothing...... can anyone give me any advice?
TIA...
Laura & Ishta

Messages in this topic (3)
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3b. Re: Sheep? and re-intro
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:02 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Laura
Welcome back!
Not sure what you are asking here.
Do you mean, is it OK to feed sheep? Yes.
Did you mean, is it OK to feed whole sheep? Yes.
I think the 'usual' way whole sheep or goat is sold is a 'six-way'
cut. Pretty large parts, I would guess.
I'm not sure, but I think that those that are slaughtered are sheared
first, so the skin would be intact, but have no wool, but I may be wrong.
Btw, you've never fed lamb? Its pretty pricey in the grocery store,
but I get breast of lamb or ribs sometimes when they're on sale. And
occasionally I can get lamb necks.
Lamb is just juvenile sheep.
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> Sorry guys its been a while since I been on here for many reasons
> and I forgot that I prolly needed to reintroduce myself. My name is
> Laura and I have a Rotti that "was" on raw,
<snip>
Anyway I asked earlier about the butcher and
> the wild game, but what about sheep? I have never heard of that one
> being fed, I know the hide wouldn't be a good thing unless it has
> been shaved???? But what about the rest of the meat?
<snip>
.. can anyone give me any advice?
> TIA...
> Laura & Ishta
>

Messages in this topic (3)
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3c. Re: Sheep? and re-intro
Posted by: "cypressbunny" cypressbunny@yahoo.com cypressbunny
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:32 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "lauraanimal1" <lauraanimal1@...>
wrote:
>
> I know the hide wouldnt be a good thing unless it has
> been shaved???? but what about the rest of the meat?

*** It would be unusual to buy mutton with the skin on--more often it
would be skinned first. I agree that I wouldn't feed hide with a lot
of wool on it. If it was sheared first that would be ok. Other than
that the whole sheep is edible for a rottie.

--Carrie

Messages in this topic (3)
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4a. Re: eating 4 day old buried meaty bone?
Posted by: "Tracy Meal" hiddenpoetinme1@yahoo.com hiddenpoetinme1
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2007 4:20 pm ((PDT))

Hi there,

I have been feeding raw for 2 months now and my 2 rotties will bury what they cannot finish at mealtimes. They will dig it up and consume it with no problems a couple days later.

I find the practice disgusting and try to stay far enough away so I do not have to smell it. I also let them wash their mouths with hose water after feeding so their breath does not smell like carrion. ;-)

Tracy

---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (6)
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4b. Re: eating 4 day old buried meaty bone?
Posted by: "woofwoofgrrl" cmc4lists1@gastrounit.com woofwoofgrrl
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2007 4:43 pm ((PDT))

At least they don't roll on it! My 1 year old LHW likes to bury his
food, and my 12 yo Border Collie likes to find it, dig it up, *roll on
it*, and then eat it.

The puppy is hysterical when he's hiding stuff - he hasn't learned to be
particularly discrete so there are times when he's burying something in
full view of the other dogs. As soon as he's left one of the other
dogs will go dig it up and eat it. He just stands there looking as if
he's thinking "Well Golly! How did they find it so quickly? I know I
did a good job burying it!" LOL!!

The only adverse affects the dogs have encountered from burying food is
an increase in bath frequency - directly corresponding to each dogs
individual tendency to roll on stinky food! Their stomachs have been
otherwise unaffected.

Christine

Tracy Meal wrote:
>
>
> Hi there,
>
> I have been feeding raw for 2 months now and my 2 rotties will bury what
> they cannot finish at mealtimes. They will dig it up and consume it with
> no problems a couple days later.
>
> I find the practice disgusting and try to stay far enough away so I do
> not have to smell it. I also let them wash their mouths with hose water
> after feeding so their breath does not smell like carrion. ;-)
>
> Tracy
>

Messages in this topic (6)
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5a. Long-haired Lap Dogs
Posted by: "Renate" renate.tideswell@gmail.com tideswell_renate
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2007 4:21 pm ((PDT))

I'm not sure how to word this question because I don't want to upset anyone,
so I think I'll just apologize in advance and ask outright. I have 2 shih
tzus that sleep with me and a poodle-border collie and at the moment 2
foster shih tzus. I am really drawn to the whole raw feeding thing, but
with long-haired lap-dogs, how messy are they going to be? I'm not the best
housekeeper, but I have to draw the line at sleeping with bloody-covered,
fatty, smelly doggies. Will they need bathing every day? Anyone here in
the same situation?

--
Renate
'The more I learn about men, the more I love my Shih Tzu'

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
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5b. Re: Long-haired Lap Dogs
Posted by: "pelle567" krjoyner@firstam.com pelle567
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:10 pm ((PDT))

I have a pekingese and I just wipe him down with a baby wipe...he
smells absolutely lovely.

Katie

Messages in this topic (2)
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6a. goat changed to lamb
Posted by: "Terri Leist" qahri@sbcglobal.net qahri
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:10 pm ((PDT))

ok, now that I know goat is good; the owner of a butcher shop said I could get a ewe instead. He said it would be $50 for the ewe, & $50 to process it. I don't know how much it will weigh, but I'll find out tomorrow.

My question is. How do I ask it to be cut? I have a small square freezer, so it can't be 4 long legs or anything. He said I could ask for other parts too. So what do I tell the man when I call him tomorrow?

Kadin eats around 1.5lbs & Lilly eats around 1lb. Do I ask him to cut the body parts into those weights? Do I ask him to cut each leg into 4 sections? Are lamb legs too hard to chew, when Kadins teeth are already worn down (heard yesterday that can be from tennis balls, it IS in a perfect round shape, it starts behind her canines as REAL short, then get longer like a ball- even her canines are worn too.

Anyway, I know the ribs can be slabs?? But what organs & what do I tell the guy so I can get it into my freezer??

Thanks for any help I'll wait until I get replies to call him so that I can make sense & not sound like a goof ball!

Thanks from me & K & L thank you too, they are going to love this, at least I HOPE!!

Terri & the Raw Fed-"Muttly Crew" Kadin & Lilly:
Learn how: www.rawfeddogs.net

www.rawfed.com

www.rawmeatybones.com

Over exposure to the SON; actually PREVENTS burning!!

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Messages in this topic (2)
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6b. Re: goat changed to lamb
Posted by: "cypressbunny" cypressbunny@yahoo.com cypressbunny
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:30 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Terri Leist <qahri@...> wrote:
>
> I don't know how much it will weigh, but I'll find out tomorrow.

*** Most adult ewes weigh a minimum of 80 lbs, so that sounds like a
good price to me.

> My question is. How do I ask it to be cut?

*** If it were me, I'd ask for the whole carcass to be cut into 1-2
lb bone-in roasts. Ask for the feet, and the head if you want it.
Also ask for the tripe, lungs, heart, spleen, liver, kidneys, and
pancreas if he knows where it is. Intestines optional.

> Do I ask him to cut each leg into 4 sections?

*** Probably 3 sections: shank, foreshank, and foot (with hoof).

Are lamb legs too hard to chew, when Kadins teeth are already worn
down (heard yesterday that can be from tennis balls

*** Unless this is a monster ewe, the bones aren't too hard to chew.
The damage you describe does sound like tennis ball damage--dogs
hold the ball behind the canines and chew--many thousands of
repetitions is like chewing sandpaper and does wear teeth
excessively.

> what do I tell the guy so I can get it into my freezer??

*** The only parts that don't stack nicely are the ribs, but if he
cuts them into 1 or 2 pound slabs they'll store fine.

--Carrie

Messages in this topic (2)
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7a. Re: goats?
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:33 pm ((PDT))

IME, it's great--MUCH leaner than lamb, my 20 lb. Boston loves it, and
he eats the shoulder and rib bones and most of the leg bone (maybe not
all of the long part). I get skin-on, bone-in hunks (probably from a 6-
way cut) in Seattle at the Asian markets for 2.69/lb. to 3.29/lb. The
more expensive store's sign says it's from Australia, not sure about
the others.

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Terri Leist <qahri@...> wrote:
>
> How ok, is goat??
>

Messages in this topic (6)
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8a. Re: breed specific
Posted by: "Dina" dotdog99@comcast.net dmmelendez
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:35 pm ((PDT))

>
> I guess that means that a raw diet doesn't help with all alergies.
Is that right? I've got a dog
> who sems to have just about every inhaled allergy you can imagine,
and I'd hoped that raw
> would help with that.
>
> Libby
>

Depends, how long have you been feeding and do you vaccinate and/or use
HW and flea/tick preventatives?

Dina
PA

Messages in this topic (15)
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9a. Re: Swallowing big bones whole?!
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:35 pm ((PDT))

Hi Karlene,

How big are your dogs? Those are small pieces for anything but tiny
dogs. Can be choking hazards, but sounds like it went down ok. It
should digest fine. You may see fragments in his poop, or it's
possible he'll vomit some back up, but that can happen in newbie dogs
regardless of what size the piece is that's fed. Their digestion
sometimes has to get up to speed. And many dogs don't have any
problems. He may also slow down when he gets used to this new food.
They are usually quite excited to be getting real food and this can
lead to gulping bigger pieces than they might later down the road.
Yep, the solution is to feed bigger, so he'll have to work at it and
think about what he's doing. How big depends on how big he is. If
you fed him a pound, is he about 30-50 lbs.? If that's the case, I'd
probably not go any smaller than a quarter of a chicken (in one
hunk). If you want to slow him down even more, go even bigger and
let him eat half or whatever, and save the other half for the next
meal. It will be more naturally dismantled and he'll have to work
and think even more.

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "mrskheath" <mrskheath@...> wrote:
> He used his teeth on some of it, but then he
> swallowed the 'leg' part of the bone whole from what i could see,
> maybe he semi-broke the bone once at the very most (hard to tell).
Is
> that okay?

Messages in this topic (2)
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10a. anal sacs?
Posted by: "johkemp" johkemp@yahoo.com.au johkemp
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2007 6:24 pm ((PDT))

Does anyone's raw fed dog have these problems?

I was wondering whether the more natural diet has effects on anal
sacs. Do dogs not eating and therefore not pooping mush have any
problems? My dogs have never had these problems but my sister's crap
fed dog does. Their vet recommended adding bran to the dogs food to
prevent it :(

Jo

Messages in this topic (2)
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10b. Re: anal sacs?
Posted by: "heather pavelin" hpav061378@yahoo.com hpav061378
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2007 6:38 pm ((PDT))

My greyhound had this problem when he was being fed kibble and always had mushy poops. He started leaking them all over my house YUCK!!! Took to vet and they were very very full every 2-3 weeks or so. Since switching to raw his butt does not stink anymore and we have not had any more problems. We have been feeding for 3 weeks now and normally he should have had to be emptied by now. So yay for us! good luck Heather

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Messages in this topic (2)
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11a. Re: My senior dog has been on raw a week
Posted by: "delcaste" delcaste@yahoo.com delcaste
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2007 6:40 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Giselle" <megan.giselle@...> wrote:
>
> Hi, Silvina!
> COOL! ; )
> http://www.netlingo.com/lookup.cfm?term=KEWL
> TC
> Giselle

Oh my. I liked the link you sent me :)
B4N

Silvina

Messages in this topic (5)
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12.1. Re: new member
Posted by: "johkemp" johkemp@yahoo.com.au johkemp
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2007 7:06 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Dorit Pittman" <dorit.pittman@...>
wrote:
>
> WHere do you get chicken feet?
>
>
I get them at our local ethnic grocer - they sell offal (chicken
giblets, liver and hearts, lamb hearts, liver, kidneys etc) and goat
too!! All packaged, it's great. Try an asian or middle easterm
supermarket.

Jo

Messages in this topic (76)
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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12033

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: breed specific
From: S.R. Sudekum
1b. Re: breed specific
From: great_dane_devotee
1c. Re: breed specific
From: mgitaville
1d. Re: breed specific
From: costrowski75
1e. allergies
From: great_dane_devotee
1f. Re: allergies
From: mgitaville
1g. Re: allergies
From: Yasuko herron
1h. Re: breed specific
From: cypressbunny
1i. Re: allergies
From: Morledzep@aol.com

2a. Re: My senior dog has been on raw a week
From: Giselle

3a. Re: Time for a trip to the vet?
From: Monica
3b. Re: Time for a trip to the vet?
From: Sonja
3c. Re: Time for a trip to the vet?
From: Sonja

4a. Re: puppy coughing.
From: Pamela Picard

5a. Grass Eating
From: Terri Leist

6a. goats?
From: Terri Leist
6b. Re: goats?
From: cypressbunny
6c. Re: goats?
From: mgitaville
6d. Re: goats?
From: Maria
6e. Re: goats?
From: Morledzep@aol.com

7. Raw Suppliers MD
From: kevaquinn

8a. Re: Don't know if I had a chance to introduce myself and I will shor
From: Shannon Parker

9. Swallowing big bones whole?!
From: mrskheath

10a. Re: eating 4 day old buried meaty bone?
From: Morledzep@aol.com

11a. Re: is this ok
From: Morledzep@aol.com

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Re: breed specific
Posted by: "S.R. Sudekum" ssudekum@centurytel.net fassue
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2007 6:53 am ((PDT))

I've been feeding my Dalmatian female raw for around 6 years now, and
I've never (knock wood) had any urinary issues with her! Before that she
was on lamb & rice k****e, with no problems bladder-wise. I am careful
what I feed her though...mostly it's chicken, turkey, fish and pork,
very occasionally she'll get some beef or venison, and when I'm handing
out the chicken livers, she gets the smallest portion, just in case.

She'll be 13 years old this year, and she's as happy and healthy as
ever...if only we'd get a frost so the ragweed would die and her
allergies would settle down, lol!

Sue and "Leela"

Vickie wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Its my understanding that a "natural" diet isn't supposed to be breed
> specific. I get some flack from dalmatian breeders about feeding an
> all meat/bone diet, including organ meats. According the the Dalmatian
> Club of America, "all" dalmatians produce high uric acid in the urine
> and are candidates to block from bladder stones. Most of them feed
> alot of other stuff besides raw meat and bones, and many do not feed
> organ meats at all (because of the high purine levels in it) I have 2
> females and 9 times out of 10 a female will not block from bladder
> stones so I really do not worry about it. Should someone with a male
> dal be concerned?

Messages in this topic (14)
________________________________________________________________________

1b. Re: breed specific
Posted by: "great_dane_devotee" libpowers@mac.com great_dane_devotee
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2007 7:38 am ((PDT))

if only we'd get a frost so the ragweed would die and her
allergies would settle down, lol!

I guess that means that a raw diet doesn't help with all alergies. Is that right? I've got a dog
who sems to have just about every inhaled allergy you can imagine, and I'd hoped that raw
would help with that.

Libby

Messages in this topic (14)
________________________________________________________________________

1c. Re: breed specific
Posted by: "mgitaville" mgitaville@hotmail.com mgitaville
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2007 7:56 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "great_dane_devotee"
<libpowers@...> wrote:
>
> if only we'd get a frost so the ragweed would die and her
> allergies would settle down, lol!
>
> I guess that means that a raw diet doesn't help with all alergies.
Is that right? I've got a dog
> who sems to have just about every inhaled allergy you can imagine,
and I'd hoped that raw
> would help with that.
>
> Libby
>

*****A raw diet absolutely helps with allergies no questions about
it. There are countless individuals on this board, myself included,
who have our war stories of countless vet trips where testing and
steroids seem to be the go-to answer. Many of us found not only a
healthier pet with raw, but clearly a more high-quality life for them.

If you are still having troubles with allergies there are a few
things to consider. Inhalant allergies are far more common than food
allergies, but if food allergies are present than it is a guarantee
inhalant are as well.

I was going to give more advice but realize that this has been talked
about before and to be honest really is more rawchat. Please feel
free to email me if you desire and I can tell you what helped my
allergy dog that has both food and inhalant allergies. If you can
remove enough allergens they are able to combat the ones that you
can't remove....for example, grass.

Marguerita

Messages in this topic (14)
________________________________________________________________________

1d. Re: breed specific
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:13 am ((PDT))

"great_dane_devotee" <libpowers@...> wrote:
>
>> I guess that means that a raw diet doesn't help with all alergies.
Is that right? I've got a dog
> who sems to have just about every inhaled allergy you can imagine,
and I'd hoped that raw
> would help with that.
>
*****
A good raw diet can help directly by removing from the dog's life
inappropriate substances like grains and starches and chemical
additives; often jettisoning the junk is job enough. A good raw diet
helps indirectly by strengthening the immune system since a healthy dog
simply doesn't have "allergies".

However, building a responsible immune system generally requires more
than "just" feeding a healthy diet. And that's why "allergies" do not
always disappear when the dog is switched to raw food.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (14)
________________________________________________________________________

1e. allergies
Posted by: "great_dane_devotee" libpowers@mac.com great_dane_devotee
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:35 am ((PDT))

Thanks, Chris and Marguerita,

I think I will just switch to raw and see how she does. I'm wondering if I should continue her
Chinese herbs.

Libby

Messages in this topic (14)
________________________________________________________________________

1f. Re: allergies
Posted by: "mgitaville" mgitaville@hotmail.com mgitaville
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2007 10:14 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "great_dane_devotee"
<libpowers@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks, Chris and Marguerita,
>
> I think I will just switch to raw and see how she does. I'm
wondering if I should continue her
> Chinese herbs.
>
> Libby
>

******My opinion is absolutely not on the Chinese Herbs. If you do
not know what she is allergic to than how do you know one of the
herbs isn't causing problems?

For dogs with allergies switching to raw should be done a 'bit
different in my opinion. I think it is important to stick longer
with each new thing and not add to much at once. For example, I
would recommend 2 weeks initially of just chicken. Then, when add a
new item, such as pork, stick with just the pork and chicken for 1
whole week mim., then just one new item after that for a week and so
on. This is sort of like doing a modified elimination diet in just
shortter times. Look for signs of itching, sneezing, upset stomach,
etc when adding a new food. Lamb causes itchiness in my dog almost
immediately and will last for several days after.

Keep in mind that allergents can take up to 8 weeks to stop producing
reactions even once removed from the diet. So, do not expect
miracles overnight.

Marguerita

Messages in this topic (14)
________________________________________________________________________

1g. Re: allergies
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:24 am ((PDT))

>> I think I will just switch to raw and see how she does.

Hi,that is great idea! If food was not allegy cause andif you think it was enviroment,you can read WDJ this month issue about Raw Honey.

they say that for allegy dog (enviromental),good to give local Raw Honey.

Raw honey be bought at farmers market they say.

Not sure if that works or not,but it is just an info I read in WDJ.

yassy

---------------------------------
Tonight's top picks. What will you watch tonight? Preview the hottest shows on Yahoo! TV.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (14)
________________________________________________________________________

1h. Re: breed specific
Posted by: "cypressbunny" cypressbunny@yahoo.com cypressbunny
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:32 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Vickie" <dals4creekside@...>
wrote:
>
> I get some flack from dalmatian breeders about feeding an
> all meat/bone diet Should someone with a male
> dal be concerned?

*** Concerned? Yes, because the breed is congenitally defective. The
dal has the same nutritional needs as any other wolf, but many/most
of
them cannot process the by-products as efficiently as normal dogs.
You
can feed a reduced protein diet, but then you are robbing the dog of
the high-quality protein it needs, as well as introducing species-
inappropriate foods that increase the load on the liver, which is
already not transporting urates efficiently. Treatment for urate
stones is not only variably effective but also potentially damaging
to
the liver, as is trying to alkalinize the urine. Trying to prevent
urate stones by lowering protein and decreasing the acidity of the
urine is setting the dog up for a whole host of other complications.

*** A major factor in stone production is the concentration of
crystals in the urine. A raw meat diet provides lots of moisture
which
helps keep concentration in the bladder low. By all means do not
overfeed organ meats which are higher in purines, and do not
overfeed
the dog. Most dals I see vary between overweight and obese. Some
folks seem to think the dogs were bred to ride INSIDE the chariot
rather than run alongside! A fat unhealthy kibblefed dog (even low-
protein kibble) is far more likely to succumb to disease than a trim
slender rawfed dog.

*** In short, the risk of NOT feeding a species-appropriate raw diet
to a Dalmation far exceeds the risk of feeding one. Some dals will
form stones no matter what preventive measure are taken. Those on a
good raw diet will be able to handle the treatment much better than
those on a poor diet, and they will recover faster as well.

--Carrie

Messages in this topic (14)
________________________________________________________________________

1i. Re: allergies
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2007 2:05 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 9/13/2007 10:24:38 AM Pacific Standard Time,
sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com writes:

they say that for allegy dog (enviromental),good to give local Raw Honey.

Raw honey be bought at farmers market they say.

****Honey is NOT part of a species appropriate diet and will feed certain
conditions like yeast infections. this is a BAD idea.

The best defense against allergies is to build the dog's immune system by
feeding them a species appropriate diet. And if you dog's immune system needs an
immediate boost a little beef colostrum can help.

Catherine R.

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (14)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

2a. Re: My senior dog has been on raw a week
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2007 6:58 am ((PDT))

Hi, Silvina!
COOL! ; )
http://www.netlingo.com/lookup.cfm?term=KEWL
TC
Giselle

> > Hi!
> > KEWL! ^_^
>
>
> Hi Giselle! You bet they need their own freezer! These mutts eat better
> than I do. BTW, what's KEWL?
>
> Silvina
>

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

3a. Re: Time for a trip to the vet?
Posted by: "Monica" mommyof2gals@comcast.net mommyof2gals
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2007 7:37 am ((PDT))

I would definitely increase her bone for a day or two. Or until her BM's go
back to normal.

One of my two Kees must have a higher ratio of bone to avoid the runs. I
will my boy some spareribs if his stools get loose and that usually clears
it it up pretty fast. Or pork neck bones with just a little extra meat.
Works almost immediately for us.

Monica in IL

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

3b. Re: Time for a trip to the vet?
Posted by: "Sonja" ladyver@sbcglobal.net lonepalm77
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2007 10:04 am ((PDT))

Laurie,

Kodie hasn't had organs for quite some time (could that be the problem?), she had a violent reaction to chicken liver a few months ago (chicken allergies are my guess). She itched 'til she bled. This Saturday I'm getting a 40lb case of turkey liver that I ordered last month, but until the diarrhea clears up I don't think I should try it! As for stress, nothing has changed. She had a big day out on Saturday, and all this started on Sunday. The only dog she had contact with was a guide dog who's owner insisted that they interact and play (I was mortified because I was always taught to pretty much ignore guide dogs and give them plenty of space, but she insisted!). I don't think she picked anything up.

Ugh...as of yesterday I got a flyer saying my vet closed shop and I hate the other vet in town....

Sonja

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

3c. Re: Time for a trip to the vet?
Posted by: "Sonja" ladyver@sbcglobal.net lonepalm77
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2007 10:10 am ((PDT))

Thanks! I'll put her on turkey necks until the problem clears. If there isn't improvement in a day or two, then off to the vet.

Sonja

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

4a. Re: puppy coughing.
Posted by: "Pamela Picard" pet.wellness@yahoo.com pet.wellness
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2007 7:38 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Karen R <mellowed_2@...> wrote:
>
> My collie has coughed since the day I got her. She was about 18
months then and she is almost 5 now. I only started raw about 6
months ago. She actually choked once trying to swallow too big a
chunk of meat/bone, and made no sound at all with that, so there was a
big difference in sound--or lack of--. The thing I notice is if she
is occupied or active, she does not do it, but does it when she is
idle or maybe bored. I would compare the sound to a cat hacking up a
fur ball, but like your pup, mine never brings anything up.
>
***

Is is wheezy or a hawk? Is it wet or dry? Is it affected by the time
of year? Does she have hot spots or other physical symptoms? Has it
gotten better or worse since you started feeding raw?

More information please.

Pamela Picard
http://www.pet-wellness-update.com
http://aimees-law.blogspot.com/
aimees_law-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

***Sign the petition***
Exempt Sick & Senior Pets from Rabies Shots
http://www.petitiononline.com/tdsh2007/petition.html

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

5a. Grass Eating
Posted by: "Terri Leist" qahri@sbcglobal.net qahri
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2007 10:01 am ((PDT))

Both of my lab mixes will eat grass when it is long. They won't touch it if it's mowed. They like the long pieces around the fence if I don't weedeat. I just let them have at it. They don't throw up either, I guess some eat it for something to do???

Terri & the Raw Fed-"Muttly Crew" Kadin & Lilly:
Learn how: www.rawfeddogs.net

www.rawfed.com

www.rawmeatybones.com

Over exposure to the SON; actually PREVENTS burning!!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

6a. goats?
Posted by: "Terri Leist" qahri@sbcglobal.net qahri
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:24 am ((PDT))

How ok, is goat??

I have called a local butcher & they are going to give my phone number to someone who sells goats. What is a good price? The butcher said that the farmer will bring the goat to them & they can cut it into hunks & give me the bones-not the leg or shoulder bones right??

Just want to get this right before I do something dumb-hahahaha!

Terri & the Raw Fed-"Muttly Crew" Kadin & Lilly:
Learn how: www.rawfeddogs.net

www.rawfed.com

www.rawmeatybones.com

Over exposure to the SON; actually PREVENTS burning!!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________

6b. Re: goats?
Posted by: "cypressbunny" cypressbunny@yahoo.com cypressbunny
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:41 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Terri Leist <qahri@...> wrote:
>
> How ok, is goat??

*** A-OK!

What is a good price?

*** Depends on the goat and the region. I charge $2/lb on the hoof
for grassfed organic goat. Hanging weight is usually 60-70%
depending. The cheapest goat I've even seen around here was $2.79/lb
case price for 6-way cut, and was imported from New Zealand.

> The butcher said that the farmer will bring the goat to them &
they can cut it into hunks & give me the bones-not the leg or
shoulder bones right??

*** I feed the whole goat from hoof to horn. Unless your dogs are
small there is no reason not to take the legs and shoulders.
Slaughter is usually between $30-$60, and cut and wrap is usually
30¢-45¢/finished pound. The feet are great fun and exercise, and if
you buy the goat first you can also request the tripe and other
organs that would otherwise be tossed as unfit for human consumption.

--Carrie

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________

6c. Re: goats?
Posted by: "mgitaville" mgitaville@hotmail.com mgitaville
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2007 12:43 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Terri Leist <qahri@...> wrote:
>
> How ok, is goat??
>
> I have called a local butcher & they are going to give my phone
number to someone who sells goats. What is a good price? The butcher
said that the farmer will bring the goat to them & they can cut it into
hunks & give me the bones-not the leg or shoulder bones right??
>

*****Lucky for you if you can find it. I wish I could feet it more
often but at $3.50/lb the occassional leg is all I can afford. Unless
you have small dogs no reason not to feed the whole thing. Goat leg
bones are fine by my dog.

Marguerita

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________

6d. Re: goats?
Posted by: "Maria" plava_93@yahoo.com plava_93
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2007 1:27 pm ((PDT))

You can try asking for culls first. That's what I did, and I'm getting
3 for free next week!

Maria

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________

6e. Re: goats?
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2007 2:03 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 9/13/2007 10:25:16 AM Pacific Standard Time,
qahri@sbcglobal.net writes:

How ok, is goat??

I have called a local butcher & they are going to give my phone number to
someone who sells goats. What is a good price? The butcher said that the farmer
will bring the goat to them & they can cut it into hunks & give me the
bones-not the leg or shoulder bones right??

Terri,

Goat is wonderful meat.. my dogs LOVE it. you do NOT want the bones without
the meat. you want the WHOLE goat, including the legs with all of the meat on
them still. And there ain't much meat on a goat to begin with.

I buy 6-way cut (body cut into 6 large pieces) goats for about $1.40 lb, but
i get it through a buying group that buys HUGE amounts in bulk. But i
certainly wouldn't pay more than $2 lb no matter what.

Remember.. you don't want bare naked bones, you want the whole goat, organs
and all if you can.

Catherine R.

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

7. Raw Suppliers MD
Posted by: "kevaquinn" wysteria_berkhoff@verizon.net kevaquinn
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:24 am ((PDT))

Hi All,

It's been a while since I posted here. I am putting a list of
suppliers together for work (I have 2 holistic vets that I work with)
and was wondering if any of you knew of any suppliers in the Annapolis
area. I would greatly appreciate it! We even have some clients on the
eastern shore so I will accept those too! Any info is welcome info!

Thanks
Wysteria

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

8a. Re: Don't know if I had a chance to introduce myself and I will shor
Posted by: "Shannon Parker" mrbatisse@yahoo.ca mrbatisse
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2007 1:06 pm ((PDT))

Diane,

Listen to Kathy. I started out just like you...spent $200 on a grinder, processed veggies, gave the supps. What a waste of money and time. I now feed prey model and we are all so much happier. THe dogs love meal time...it's so much more engaging for them now, and I love that I just have to throw the meat down on the ground and wash my hands. Easy as pie!

Good luck which ever way you choose to feed,

Shannon

katkellm <katkellm@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi Diane,
Please don't get mad at me when i say this, but I think that you might
want to rethink your feeding choices. You don't need to buy a grinder
because you really don't want to be feeding ground food.

you are missing out on a lot of great dental and
health benefits, as well as making a lot of extra work for yourself,
not feeding according to the recipe mother nature created long ago.
KathyM

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Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

9. Swallowing big bones whole?!
Posted by: "mrskheath" mrskheath@yahoo.co.uk mrskheath
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2007 1:27 pm ((PDT))

My dogs had their first proper raw chicken today - just over a pound
for my boy and a little less for my puppy girl - she had wing and a
little carcass and he had a leg with carcass and the other wing (bout
1/4 a chicken really). It was great to see them tucking in, they loved
it. So much so in fact, that my male, Nanuq ran to the garden with it
and ate it very quickly. He used his teeth on some of it, but then he
swallowed the 'leg' part of the bone whole from what i could see,
maybe he semi-broke the bone once at the very most (hard to tell). Is
that okay? I keep trying to tell myself that I need to let him do
things his natural way. He seems fine, but will he be able to 'digest'
it properly before his body 'disposes' of it? I don't want him poohing
out full bones, could that hurt him? Have i given him a piece that is
too small for him? Just need to pt my mind at rest.

Karlene

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

10a. Re: eating 4 day old buried meaty bone?
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2007 1:49 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 9/12/2007 12:35:15 PM Pacific Standard Time,
mamacass@iprimus.com.au writes:

I'm happy to let Charlie eat his buried treasure so long as the long-time raw
feeders consider
this ok? (we're only 6 weeks into raw feeding here and loving it - why isn't
this standard
practice given a dog's dentition?!) I was thinking seeing as this has to be
instinctive for him, I
should trust his doggie wisdom?

Stephanie,

Our old man wolfdog, Jerry Lee, had a "food bank". One of the old dog houses
had some icky old blankets in it.. He would eat as much as he wanted when he
was fed, then he would take the rest out and bury it in the old blankets in
the dog house.

This was probably not his wisest move, he lived with a known food thief.
Wednesday, who was commonly known as the "box o rocks", was not as stupid as she
let on. She would wait until Jerry Lee had hidden his food, and gone to lay
down in his sleeping hole. And when she was certain he was asleep, she would
sneak into the "food bank" and eat whatever Jerry Lee had stashed.

Jerry Lee did get some of his food.. sometimes when there was something he
particularly liked he would just lay down in front of the dog house to keep
Wednesday out.. lol.

Burying food is no big deal.. some dogs like their meat "aged". Some dogs
are good self-regulators and will only eat what they need and save the rest for
later.

Catherine R.

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

11a. Re: is this ok
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2007 2:00 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 9/12/2007 11:27:39 AM Pacific Standard Time,
mvd12720@yahoo.com writes:

is freezer
burned is that ok to give my dog???? also my dog will not eat fish
what should i do??

Melissa,

free meat is free meat.. never look a gift horse in the mouth. Freezer burn
is a taste thing, not a safety issue, humans don't like to eat freezer burnt
meat because it tastes bad, but the dogs really don't care as long as it's meat.

Catherine R.

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12032

There are 20 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Time for a trip to the vet?
From: Sonja
1b. Re: Time for a trip to the vet?
From: Andrea
1c. Re: Time for a trip to the vet?
From: Sonja
1d. Re: Time for a trip to the vet?
From: Laurie Swanson

2a. Re: Whole Mackeral
From: costrowski75

3a. Re: eating 4 day old buried meaty bone?
From: costrowski75
3b. Re: eating 4 day old buried meaty bone?
From: katkellm

4a. Re: need help with raw feeding my siberian huskies - Enjoy the ride
From: mrskheath

5a. Growing your own "raw food"
From: Marcella Burgess
5b. Re: Growing your own "raw food"
From: Kaitlin Fraser

6. Re: puppy coughing.
From: Karen R

7. Newbie looking for Co-ops
From: Tracy Touzjian

8. Fresh, Raw Trachea
From: halojo45

9a. breed specific
From: Vickie
9b. Re: breed specific
From: Tina Berry

10. wrong link for blogger
From: rosebudsgranny

11. Raw Food Nazi
From: Susanne MacLeod

12a. Re: fish???eggs???
From: linoleum5017
12b. Re: fish???eggs???
From: doreenchui

13a. Re: My senior dog has been on raw a week
From: delcaste

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1a. Time for a trip to the vet?
Posted by: "Sonja" ladyver@sbcglobal.net lonepalm77
Date: Wed Sep 12, 2007 1:34 pm ((PDT))

We haven't changed any proteins in Kodie's diet and she's had diarrhea for the past three days. I fasted her for a day and have been giving her Slippery Elm, but nothing seems to help. So far (knock on wood) there have been no accidents in the house despite the fact she's inside for up for 8-9 hours a day. She's drinking water, not vomiting, has a normal labby appetite. I have been giving her more meat and less bone lately, but would that really cause liquid diarrhea? Was one day of fasting enough?

Thanks...

Sonja

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1b. Re: Time for a trip to the vet?
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:11 pm ((PDT))

Are you sure you aren't feeding too much? Try feeding a couple of days
of smaller than usual meals. Instead of feeding meatier meals I would
feed more bone to try and get things under control. As long as she is
drinking fine and her energy is ok I would think the problem is handler
error. You might take a stool sample in and see if she has any
parasites, though.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sonja" <ladyver@...> wrote:
>
> We haven't changed any proteins in Kodie's diet and she's had
diarrhea for the past three days. I fasted her for a day and have been
giving her Slippery Elm, but nothing seems to help.

> She's drinking water, not vomiting, has a normal labby appetite. I
have been giving her more meat and less bone lately

Messages in this topic (4)
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1c. Re: Time for a trip to the vet?
Posted by: "Sonja" ladyver@sbcglobal.net lonepalm77
Date: Wed Sep 12, 2007 3:31 pm ((PDT))

I was feeding roughly 10oz in the morning and 10oz at night for a 55-60lb lab, but she's been getting this amount for months and it maintains her weight nicely.

I fed her two turkey necks (one AM one PM) to clear it up but it had a minimal effect. Can I give her only turkey necks for a few days in a row? I thought it would be way too much bone....

Sonja

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1d. Re: Time for a trip to the vet?
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:18 pm ((PDT))

Hi Sonja,

Is there anything that could be causing her stress lately? That
combined with less bone could do it. Or, like someone else said, maybe
too much food per meal or per day? Did you give organs in the last few
days?

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sonja" <ladyver@...> wrote:
>
> We haven't changed any proteins in Kodie's diet and she's had
diarrhea for the past three days.

Messages in this topic (4)
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2a. Re: Whole Mackeral
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Sep 12, 2007 1:39 pm ((PDT))

"pierrenali" <sandihunt@...> wrote:
>
> Does anyone feed whole Mackeral as opposed to canned?
*****
Yes.
There are many varieties of mackerel, most of which are okay to feed.
King Mackerel is on the "high mercury levels" list but you should not
have trouble finding others. My dogs sometimes like blue mackerel or
baby bonita which I have been told is a mackerel but I'm not sure.
They don't always like whole mackerel but then they don't always like
canned mackerel either.

How about Salmon
> heads?
*****
Oh yes. When they are available at a good price I feed them often.
Since availability ebbs and wanes, they are a seasonal food for my dogs.

Do fish
> bones (raw) carry any more risk than other bones?
*****
No.

> What other fish with or without bones (please specify) is reasonable?
*****
"Reasonable" depends on where you are and how much you want to spend.
for me, a dollar a pound is reasonable. Sardines are a hit here,
Tilipia is a dud. Many people feed catfish, here it's a dud. Smelt is
a possibiity.

Some dogs like fish, some don't; some fish is more likeable than other
fish. If you are looking to feed fish for Omega 3, buy salmon, trout,
sardines, herring, anchovies, mackerel and other dark-fleshed, oily
fish from cold marine water. Warm water fish generally do not offer
Omega 3. Farmed fish offer less Omega 3 than wild caught fish.
Chilean salmon are arguably the most healthy; Chilean seabass isn't sea
bass and is on the endangered list. So is Orange Roughy and real Red
Snapper. Oh, grouper I think is also endangered now.

Oy. Fish, to me, is hardly worth the effort. I think you should just
try some and see what happens.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (2)
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3a. Re: eating 4 day old buried meaty bone?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Sep 12, 2007 1:48 pm ((PDT))

"quiltingtuppy" <mamacass@...> wrote:
> This has a high ewwwww factor for me!, what do folk think about
allowing my puppy to eat
> stuff he's saved for (much) later buried in the ground? He seems to
think it's great!
*****
If he thinks it's great, great. It's not likely to harm him and
heck, it's not you doing the eating. Often this stashing is a sign
of overfeeding, so if you'd like to see it stop naturally, try
feeding less.

(we're only 6 weeks into raw feeding here and loving it - why isn't
this standard
> practice given a dog's dentition?!)
*****
Now, THAT is a good question. Why not indeed?

I was thinking seeing as this has to be instinctive for him, I
> should trust his doggie wisdom?
*****
Unless he's burying it in a slag heap or someplace equally dreadful
(around which he ought not be playing anyway), or unless the treasure
will attract fire ants or rodents or other unwanted wildlife, I think
you should trust his doggie instincts.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
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3b. Re: eating 4 day old buried meaty bone?
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Wed Sep 12, 2007 3:31 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "quiltingtuppy" <mamacass@...> wrote:
> This has a high ewwwww factor for me!, what do folk think about
allowing my puppy to eat
> stuff he's saved for (much) later buried in the ground? He seems to
think it's great!

Hi Stephanie,
It is fine to let him eat it. One of my dogs will sometimes bury her
food when i feed big meals, and when she digs it up we can smell her
coming before we can see her. I'm sure my other two dogs think she has
magical powers because she disappears into the woods and then returns
with food. KathyM

Messages in this topic (3)
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4a. Re: need help with raw feeding my siberian huskies - Enjoy the ride
Posted by: "mrskheath" mrskheath@yahoo.co.uk mrskheath
Date: Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:11 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "ss_il" <ss_il@...> wrote:
>
> Hi and welcome,
>
My Allie is supposedly somewhere between 5 and a half
> and 6 years old - I found her at the SPCA with no history and her age
> was the vets best guess - and when asked her age by other dog owners
> who watch her play for a bit, I answer 5 and a half, and more often
> than not, people come back with.... get this... "Months or Years?"
>
> Enjoy the ride,
>
> Steve and Allie

>I so enjoyed your post I had to read it out to everyone in the room lol
Where are you based?
Thanks for the tips! please send me pics of your girls

Karlene

Messages in this topic (11)
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5a. Growing your own "raw food"
Posted by: "Marcella Burgess" proudfootkennels@sympatico.ca marciongrass
Date: Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:11 pm ((PDT))

Hi again,

I was wondering if anyone on the list actually "grows" anything that is within their dog's diet, like rabbits, or chickens?
If so.... what do you have to do in order to raise a 'dog friendly' and safe food? Obviously no vaccinations but is there anything else?
The reason that I am asking this is that due to my locale, finding half decent deals on large quantities of meat is next to impossible, as we are right smack dab in the middle of cottage country where everything price wise is jacked up due to the tourism here!

Any advice would be much appreciated

Sincerely,
Marcella, Ontario

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Messages in this topic (2)
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5b. Re: Growing your own "raw food"
Posted by: "Kaitlin Fraser" fraserk7@hotmail.com fraserk7
Date: Wed Sep 12, 2007 3:31 pm ((PDT))

I've never raised them on my land but Turkeys yes.... my moms best friend
keeps them at his place( he has the set up) and I buy it, feed them.,..
clean them up... and he kills them for me.

Beef a friend of the family raises that.... so if I want I can put a cow on
his land or just buy one off him for 1.50 a pound and when I take EVERYTHING
from the cow it's a great deal. But you can buy a baby calf around here for
like 100dollars... feed it till it's year or so and butcher it and get a lot
more then 100dollars worth of meat. I've never done chickens, but I am
thinking of making a pigs pen and raising some pigs.

Kaitlin Fraser
Prince SJA therapy dog, CGN
Jester SJA therapy dog CGN
Wenlisa's Command Performance HIC, CKC PTd "Malo" A work of art in
progress.( Raw Fed, )
Sheep's Kin Unusually Unusaul Kiska- Another work of art in even more
progress.( Raw fed)

No dogs are vaccinated in my home.

" No one can walk into a room and bring as much joy, happyness and love as a
single dog can"

>From: "Marcella Burgess" <proudfootkennels@sympatico.ca>
>Reply-To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
>To: <rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: [rawfeeding] Growing your own "raw food"
>Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 17:00:57 -0400
>
>Hi again,
>
>I was wondering if anyone on the list actually "grows" anything that is
>within their dog's diet, like rabbits, or chickens?
>If so.... what do you have to do in order to raise a 'dog friendly' and
>safe food? Obviously no vaccinations but is there anything else?
>The reason that I am asking this is that due to my locale, finding half
>decent deals on large quantities of meat is next to impossible, as we are
>right smack dab in the middle of cottage country where everything price
>wise is jacked up due to the tourism here!
>
>Any advice would be much appreciated
>
>Sincerely,
>Marcella, Ontario
>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

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6. Re: puppy coughing.
Posted by: "Karen R" mellowed_2@yahoo.com mellowed_2
Date: Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:25 pm ((PDT))

My collie has coughed since the day I got her. She was about 18 months then and she is almost 5 now. I only started raw about 6 months ago. She actually choked once trying to swallow too big a chunk of meat/bone, and made no sound at all with that, so there was a big difference in sound--or lack of--. The thing I notice is if she is occupied or active, she does not do it, but does it when she is idle or maybe bored. I would compare the sound to a cat hacking up a fur ball, but like your pup, mine never brings anything up.

If your dog does it often enough that a vet could hear it, then it might be worth checking it out. Mine has never done it in the vet's office and on an emergency visit, I was there for four hours. I doubt I will ever know what it is, but it does not seem to affect her one way or the other, it only bothers me.

Karen

A little knowledge that acts is worth infinitely more than much knowledge that is idle.

Kahlil Gibran

---------------------------------
Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.

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7. Newbie looking for Co-ops
Posted by: "Tracy Touzjian" imcalvinsmom@yahoo.com imcalvinsmom
Date: Wed Sep 12, 2007 3:31 pm ((PDT))

Hi everyone,

I've decided to take the plunge and go all out raw for my 15 month old
Boerboel. He has been on Canadie since he was a pup. I had been
supplementing with raw chicken thighs 2X a week. He recently has
develpoed some skin and ear issues, and I believe Raw can help. Since
he such a large dog, and buying at the grocery store can get expensive,
I was wondering if there is anyone in the Hopkinton, Ma area that
participates in a Co-Op type of situation. Or if anyone knows any
recources in my area I can tap into. Thank you in advance!

Tracy T

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8. Fresh, Raw Trachea
Posted by: "halojo45" hanne@hajo.us halojo45
Date: Wed Sep 12, 2007 3:31 pm ((PDT))

Just wanted to let you know that it is possible: a whole, raw, beef
trachea for $1.00 (I used to pay $7.00 each before)! My neighbor got
some too!
Hanne

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9a. breed specific
Posted by: "Vickie" dals4creekside@comcast.net vivkie
Date: Wed Sep 12, 2007 3:31 pm ((PDT))

Hi all,

Its my understanding that a "natural" diet isn't supposed to be breed
specific. I get some flack from dalmatian breeders about feeding an
all meat/bone diet, including organ meats. According the the Dalmatian
Club of America, "all" dalmatians produce high uric acid in the urine
and are candidates to block from bladder stones. Most of them feed
alot of other stuff besides raw meat and bones, and many do not feed
organ meats at all (because of the high purine levels in it) I have 2
females and 9 times out of 10 a female will not block from bladder
stones so I really do not worry about it. Should someone with a male
dal be concerned?

I posted this to the "Raw Chat" list and did not get any opinions

thanks
Vickie

Messages in this topic (6)
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9b. Re: breed specific
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:42 pm ((PDT))

"Its my understanding that a "natural" diet isn't supposed to be breed
specific. I get some flack from dalmatian breeders about feeding an all
meat/bone diet, including organ meats. According the the Dalmatian Club of
America, "all" dalmatians produce high uric acid in the urine and are
candidates to block from bladder stones."

The natural raw diet is not breed specific. IMO if a certain breed has an
issue with a raw diet, it is something that has been bred into that breed
and is not a good thing in the first place. I don't know anything about
dalmatians, but I do know that just about every dog, regardless of breed, on
this list and the raw chat list has done great on a raw diet, allergies
disappear, illnesses have improved, etc. So if this is an issue specific to
the Dalmatian breed, maybe it is depending on the line of the Dalmatian...
I'm not claiming the raw diet fixes everything, if you have an unhealthy dog
to start with, maybe switching to a raw diet too fast/soon is no the way to
go.. maybe also ask this question on one of the homeopathic lists to
address the high uric acid and bladder stones in the breed.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

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10. wrong link for blogger
Posted by: "rosebudsgranny" rosebudsgranny@yahoo.com rosebudsgranny
Date: Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:41 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Just in case the link on my last post doesn't work, use this one.
Don't know what happened, but when I posted the link the first time, it
didn't come through correctly. This one will work.

Thanks again. Sandy

http://community.wkrc.com/blogs/fur_and_feathers/archive/2007/09/10/1958
675.aspx

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11. Raw Food Nazi
Posted by: "Susanne MacLeod" suzmacleod@rogers.com skull25ca
Date: Wed Sep 12, 2007 6:35 pm ((PDT))

Just had to share this one.....I joined this list over a year okay,
and I owe many mant thanks to the memebers and the moderators for
their patience and knowledge. My immune compromised Katie is coming
along nicely with the helpof a homeopath. I am co-organizer for a
local Frenchie Group and was recently attacked for pushing raw down
everyone's throat, it's hte answer to everything. I was labeled as the
raw food Nazi!!!! Well, I'm living proof to my Katie who
was "allergic" to everything and had to be on steriods - 'BUllockS"
she eats everything now. Am I the Nazi....call me what you want, but
I now have made it my mission to spread the word. FWIW,several people
on the list contacted me to say thanks for enlightening them, and
switching their dogs to raw. Some will get it, somw don't care!
Suz Kate and Joey

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12a. Re: fish???eggs???
Posted by: "linoleum5017" linoleum5017@yahoo.com linoleum5017
Date: Wed Sep 12, 2007 7:19 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "mandajenwalker" <walker1031@...>
wrote:
>
> (3rd week in) My question is when do we start on the fish, eggs
etc. I feel like they are getting a lot of the same thing all the
time. What type of fish do I use and how often to I give eggs and
fish to them???
****
Mandy, I can tell you what I did, (which worked w/out any noticeable
ill effects.) After a couple of weeks on chicken, I added an egg and
some smelts (quick-thawed, from frozen 'cleaned' bag,)
as 'breakfast.' Then for dinner, same old chicken, so as not to be
too drastic in the introduction of fish/eggs.

Also, when I tried other, bigger, whole fish, (1 lb.ish,) my pets
did not like them. We had a 3-day hold out, and I finally gave in,
and offered something else for dinner. So mine like the smaller
fishies, not whole.

HTH,
Lynne

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12b. Re: fish???eggs???
Posted by: "doreenchui" doreenchui@yeos.com doreenchui
Date: Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:04 pm ((PDT))

Hi
I have a 2 yr male whippet, picky and lazy eater. He never jump on
you when you are preparing food EXCEPT COD FISH. He simply loves it.
But the only thing is it does not help your dog to gain weight on it.
Doreen

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13a. Re: My senior dog has been on raw a week
Posted by: "delcaste" delcaste@yahoo.com delcaste
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2007 3:08 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Giselle" <megan.giselle@...> wrote:
>
> Hi!
> KEWL! ^_^

Hi Giselle! You bet they need their own freezer! These mutts eat better
than I do. BTW, what's KEWL?

Silvina

Messages in this topic (3)
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