[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12033

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: breed specific
From: S.R. Sudekum
1b. Re: breed specific
From: great_dane_devotee
1c. Re: breed specific
From: mgitaville
1d. Re: breed specific
From: costrowski75
1e. allergies
From: great_dane_devotee
1f. Re: allergies
From: mgitaville
1g. Re: allergies
From: Yasuko herron
1h. Re: breed specific
From: cypressbunny
1i. Re: allergies
From: Morledzep@aol.com

2a. Re: My senior dog has been on raw a week
From: Giselle

3a. Re: Time for a trip to the vet?
From: Monica
3b. Re: Time for a trip to the vet?
From: Sonja
3c. Re: Time for a trip to the vet?
From: Sonja

4a. Re: puppy coughing.
From: Pamela Picard

5a. Grass Eating
From: Terri Leist

6a. goats?
From: Terri Leist
6b. Re: goats?
From: cypressbunny
6c. Re: goats?
From: mgitaville
6d. Re: goats?
From: Maria
6e. Re: goats?
From: Morledzep@aol.com

7. Raw Suppliers MD
From: kevaquinn

8a. Re: Don't know if I had a chance to introduce myself and I will shor
From: Shannon Parker

9. Swallowing big bones whole?!
From: mrskheath

10a. Re: eating 4 day old buried meaty bone?
From: Morledzep@aol.com

11a. Re: is this ok
From: Morledzep@aol.com

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Re: breed specific
Posted by: "S.R. Sudekum" ssudekum@centurytel.net fassue
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2007 6:53 am ((PDT))

I've been feeding my Dalmatian female raw for around 6 years now, and
I've never (knock wood) had any urinary issues with her! Before that she
was on lamb & rice k****e, with no problems bladder-wise. I am careful
what I feed her though...mostly it's chicken, turkey, fish and pork,
very occasionally she'll get some beef or venison, and when I'm handing
out the chicken livers, she gets the smallest portion, just in case.

She'll be 13 years old this year, and she's as happy and healthy as
ever...if only we'd get a frost so the ragweed would die and her
allergies would settle down, lol!

Sue and "Leela"

Vickie wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Its my understanding that a "natural" diet isn't supposed to be breed
> specific. I get some flack from dalmatian breeders about feeding an
> all meat/bone diet, including organ meats. According the the Dalmatian
> Club of America, "all" dalmatians produce high uric acid in the urine
> and are candidates to block from bladder stones. Most of them feed
> alot of other stuff besides raw meat and bones, and many do not feed
> organ meats at all (because of the high purine levels in it) I have 2
> females and 9 times out of 10 a female will not block from bladder
> stones so I really do not worry about it. Should someone with a male
> dal be concerned?

Messages in this topic (14)
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1b. Re: breed specific
Posted by: "great_dane_devotee" libpowers@mac.com great_dane_devotee
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2007 7:38 am ((PDT))

if only we'd get a frost so the ragweed would die and her
allergies would settle down, lol!

I guess that means that a raw diet doesn't help with all alergies. Is that right? I've got a dog
who sems to have just about every inhaled allergy you can imagine, and I'd hoped that raw
would help with that.

Libby

Messages in this topic (14)
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1c. Re: breed specific
Posted by: "mgitaville" mgitaville@hotmail.com mgitaville
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2007 7:56 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "great_dane_devotee"
<libpowers@...> wrote:
>
> if only we'd get a frost so the ragweed would die and her
> allergies would settle down, lol!
>
> I guess that means that a raw diet doesn't help with all alergies.
Is that right? I've got a dog
> who sems to have just about every inhaled allergy you can imagine,
and I'd hoped that raw
> would help with that.
>
> Libby
>

*****A raw diet absolutely helps with allergies no questions about
it. There are countless individuals on this board, myself included,
who have our war stories of countless vet trips where testing and
steroids seem to be the go-to answer. Many of us found not only a
healthier pet with raw, but clearly a more high-quality life for them.

If you are still having troubles with allergies there are a few
things to consider. Inhalant allergies are far more common than food
allergies, but if food allergies are present than it is a guarantee
inhalant are as well.

I was going to give more advice but realize that this has been talked
about before and to be honest really is more rawchat. Please feel
free to email me if you desire and I can tell you what helped my
allergy dog that has both food and inhalant allergies. If you can
remove enough allergens they are able to combat the ones that you
can't remove....for example, grass.

Marguerita

Messages in this topic (14)
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1d. Re: breed specific
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:13 am ((PDT))

"great_dane_devotee" <libpowers@...> wrote:
>
>> I guess that means that a raw diet doesn't help with all alergies.
Is that right? I've got a dog
> who sems to have just about every inhaled allergy you can imagine,
and I'd hoped that raw
> would help with that.
>
*****
A good raw diet can help directly by removing from the dog's life
inappropriate substances like grains and starches and chemical
additives; often jettisoning the junk is job enough. A good raw diet
helps indirectly by strengthening the immune system since a healthy dog
simply doesn't have "allergies".

However, building a responsible immune system generally requires more
than "just" feeding a healthy diet. And that's why "allergies" do not
always disappear when the dog is switched to raw food.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (14)
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1e. allergies
Posted by: "great_dane_devotee" libpowers@mac.com great_dane_devotee
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:35 am ((PDT))

Thanks, Chris and Marguerita,

I think I will just switch to raw and see how she does. I'm wondering if I should continue her
Chinese herbs.

Libby

Messages in this topic (14)
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1f. Re: allergies
Posted by: "mgitaville" mgitaville@hotmail.com mgitaville
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2007 10:14 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "great_dane_devotee"
<libpowers@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks, Chris and Marguerita,
>
> I think I will just switch to raw and see how she does. I'm
wondering if I should continue her
> Chinese herbs.
>
> Libby
>

******My opinion is absolutely not on the Chinese Herbs. If you do
not know what she is allergic to than how do you know one of the
herbs isn't causing problems?

For dogs with allergies switching to raw should be done a 'bit
different in my opinion. I think it is important to stick longer
with each new thing and not add to much at once. For example, I
would recommend 2 weeks initially of just chicken. Then, when add a
new item, such as pork, stick with just the pork and chicken for 1
whole week mim., then just one new item after that for a week and so
on. This is sort of like doing a modified elimination diet in just
shortter times. Look for signs of itching, sneezing, upset stomach,
etc when adding a new food. Lamb causes itchiness in my dog almost
immediately and will last for several days after.

Keep in mind that allergents can take up to 8 weeks to stop producing
reactions even once removed from the diet. So, do not expect
miracles overnight.

Marguerita

Messages in this topic (14)
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1g. Re: allergies
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:24 am ((PDT))

>> I think I will just switch to raw and see how she does.

Hi,that is great idea! If food was not allegy cause andif you think it was enviroment,you can read WDJ this month issue about Raw Honey.

they say that for allegy dog (enviromental),good to give local Raw Honey.

Raw honey be bought at farmers market they say.

Not sure if that works or not,but it is just an info I read in WDJ.

yassy

---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (14)
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1h. Re: breed specific
Posted by: "cypressbunny" cypressbunny@yahoo.com cypressbunny
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:32 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Vickie" <dals4creekside@...>
wrote:
>
> I get some flack from dalmatian breeders about feeding an
> all meat/bone diet Should someone with a male
> dal be concerned?

*** Concerned? Yes, because the breed is congenitally defective. The
dal has the same nutritional needs as any other wolf, but many/most
of
them cannot process the by-products as efficiently as normal dogs.
You
can feed a reduced protein diet, but then you are robbing the dog of
the high-quality protein it needs, as well as introducing species-
inappropriate foods that increase the load on the liver, which is
already not transporting urates efficiently. Treatment for urate
stones is not only variably effective but also potentially damaging
to
the liver, as is trying to alkalinize the urine. Trying to prevent
urate stones by lowering protein and decreasing the acidity of the
urine is setting the dog up for a whole host of other complications.

*** A major factor in stone production is the concentration of
crystals in the urine. A raw meat diet provides lots of moisture
which
helps keep concentration in the bladder low. By all means do not
overfeed organ meats which are higher in purines, and do not
overfeed
the dog. Most dals I see vary between overweight and obese. Some
folks seem to think the dogs were bred to ride INSIDE the chariot
rather than run alongside! A fat unhealthy kibblefed dog (even low-
protein kibble) is far more likely to succumb to disease than a trim
slender rawfed dog.

*** In short, the risk of NOT feeding a species-appropriate raw diet
to a Dalmation far exceeds the risk of feeding one. Some dals will
form stones no matter what preventive measure are taken. Those on a
good raw diet will be able to handle the treatment much better than
those on a poor diet, and they will recover faster as well.

--Carrie

Messages in this topic (14)
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1i. Re: allergies
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2007 2:05 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 9/13/2007 10:24:38 AM Pacific Standard Time,
sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com writes:

they say that for allegy dog (enviromental),good to give local Raw Honey.

Raw honey be bought at farmers market they say.

****Honey is NOT part of a species appropriate diet and will feed certain
conditions like yeast infections. this is a BAD idea.

The best defense against allergies is to build the dog's immune system by
feeding them a species appropriate diet. And if you dog's immune system needs an
immediate boost a little beef colostrum can help.

Catherine R.

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

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Messages in this topic (14)
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2a. Re: My senior dog has been on raw a week
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2007 6:58 am ((PDT))

Hi, Silvina!
COOL! ; )
http://www.netlingo.com/lookup.cfm?term=KEWL
TC
Giselle

> > Hi!
> > KEWL! ^_^
>
>
> Hi Giselle! You bet they need their own freezer! These mutts eat better
> than I do. BTW, what's KEWL?
>
> Silvina
>

Messages in this topic (4)
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3a. Re: Time for a trip to the vet?
Posted by: "Monica" mommyof2gals@comcast.net mommyof2gals
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2007 7:37 am ((PDT))

I would definitely increase her bone for a day or two. Or until her BM's go
back to normal.

One of my two Kees must have a higher ratio of bone to avoid the runs. I
will my boy some spareribs if his stools get loose and that usually clears
it it up pretty fast. Or pork neck bones with just a little extra meat.
Works almost immediately for us.

Monica in IL

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Messages in this topic (7)
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3b. Re: Time for a trip to the vet?
Posted by: "Sonja" ladyver@sbcglobal.net lonepalm77
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2007 10:04 am ((PDT))

Laurie,

Kodie hasn't had organs for quite some time (could that be the problem?), she had a violent reaction to chicken liver a few months ago (chicken allergies are my guess). She itched 'til she bled. This Saturday I'm getting a 40lb case of turkey liver that I ordered last month, but until the diarrhea clears up I don't think I should try it! As for stress, nothing has changed. She had a big day out on Saturday, and all this started on Sunday. The only dog she had contact with was a guide dog who's owner insisted that they interact and play (I was mortified because I was always taught to pretty much ignore guide dogs and give them plenty of space, but she insisted!). I don't think she picked anything up.

Ugh...as of yesterday I got a flyer saying my vet closed shop and I hate the other vet in town....

Sonja

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Messages in this topic (7)
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3c. Re: Time for a trip to the vet?
Posted by: "Sonja" ladyver@sbcglobal.net lonepalm77
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2007 10:10 am ((PDT))

Thanks! I'll put her on turkey necks until the problem clears. If there isn't improvement in a day or two, then off to the vet.

Sonja

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (7)
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4a. Re: puppy coughing.
Posted by: "Pamela Picard" pet.wellness@yahoo.com pet.wellness
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2007 7:38 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Karen R <mellowed_2@...> wrote:
>
> My collie has coughed since the day I got her. She was about 18
months then and she is almost 5 now. I only started raw about 6
months ago. She actually choked once trying to swallow too big a
chunk of meat/bone, and made no sound at all with that, so there was a
big difference in sound--or lack of--. The thing I notice is if she
is occupied or active, she does not do it, but does it when she is
idle or maybe bored. I would compare the sound to a cat hacking up a
fur ball, but like your pup, mine never brings anything up.
>
***

Is is wheezy or a hawk? Is it wet or dry? Is it affected by the time
of year? Does she have hot spots or other physical symptoms? Has it
gotten better or worse since you started feeding raw?

More information please.

Pamela Picard
http://www.pet-wellness-update.com
http://aimees-law.blogspot.com/
aimees_law-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

***Sign the petition***
Exempt Sick & Senior Pets from Rabies Shots
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Messages in this topic (2)
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5a. Grass Eating
Posted by: "Terri Leist" qahri@sbcglobal.net qahri
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2007 10:01 am ((PDT))

Both of my lab mixes will eat grass when it is long. They won't touch it if it's mowed. They like the long pieces around the fence if I don't weedeat. I just let them have at it. They don't throw up either, I guess some eat it for something to do???

Terri & the Raw Fed-"Muttly Crew" Kadin & Lilly:
Learn how: www.rawfeddogs.net

www.rawfed.com

www.rawmeatybones.com

Over exposure to the SON; actually PREVENTS burning!!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (10)
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6a. goats?
Posted by: "Terri Leist" qahri@sbcglobal.net qahri
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:24 am ((PDT))

How ok, is goat??

I have called a local butcher & they are going to give my phone number to someone who sells goats. What is a good price? The butcher said that the farmer will bring the goat to them & they can cut it into hunks & give me the bones-not the leg or shoulder bones right??

Just want to get this right before I do something dumb-hahahaha!

Terri & the Raw Fed-"Muttly Crew" Kadin & Lilly:
Learn how: www.rawfeddogs.net

www.rawfed.com

www.rawmeatybones.com

Over exposure to the SON; actually PREVENTS burning!!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (5)
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6b. Re: goats?
Posted by: "cypressbunny" cypressbunny@yahoo.com cypressbunny
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:41 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Terri Leist <qahri@...> wrote:
>
> How ok, is goat??

*** A-OK!

What is a good price?

*** Depends on the goat and the region. I charge $2/lb on the hoof
for grassfed organic goat. Hanging weight is usually 60-70%
depending. The cheapest goat I've even seen around here was $2.79/lb
case price for 6-way cut, and was imported from New Zealand.

> The butcher said that the farmer will bring the goat to them &
they can cut it into hunks & give me the bones-not the leg or
shoulder bones right??

*** I feed the whole goat from hoof to horn. Unless your dogs are
small there is no reason not to take the legs and shoulders.
Slaughter is usually between $30-$60, and cut and wrap is usually
30¢-45¢/finished pound. The feet are great fun and exercise, and if
you buy the goat first you can also request the tripe and other
organs that would otherwise be tossed as unfit for human consumption.

--Carrie

Messages in this topic (5)
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6c. Re: goats?
Posted by: "mgitaville" mgitaville@hotmail.com mgitaville
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2007 12:43 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Terri Leist <qahri@...> wrote:
>
> How ok, is goat??
>
> I have called a local butcher & they are going to give my phone
number to someone who sells goats. What is a good price? The butcher
said that the farmer will bring the goat to them & they can cut it into
hunks & give me the bones-not the leg or shoulder bones right??
>

*****Lucky for you if you can find it. I wish I could feet it more
often but at $3.50/lb the occassional leg is all I can afford. Unless
you have small dogs no reason not to feed the whole thing. Goat leg
bones are fine by my dog.

Marguerita

Messages in this topic (5)
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6d. Re: goats?
Posted by: "Maria" plava_93@yahoo.com plava_93
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2007 1:27 pm ((PDT))

You can try asking for culls first. That's what I did, and I'm getting
3 for free next week!

Maria

Messages in this topic (5)
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6e. Re: goats?
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2007 2:03 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 9/13/2007 10:25:16 AM Pacific Standard Time,
qahri@sbcglobal.net writes:

How ok, is goat??

I have called a local butcher & they are going to give my phone number to
someone who sells goats. What is a good price? The butcher said that the farmer
will bring the goat to them & they can cut it into hunks & give me the
bones-not the leg or shoulder bones right??

Terri,

Goat is wonderful meat.. my dogs LOVE it. you do NOT want the bones without
the meat. you want the WHOLE goat, including the legs with all of the meat on
them still. And there ain't much meat on a goat to begin with.

I buy 6-way cut (body cut into 6 large pieces) goats for about $1.40 lb, but
i get it through a buying group that buys HUGE amounts in bulk. But i
certainly wouldn't pay more than $2 lb no matter what.

Remember.. you don't want bare naked bones, you want the whole goat, organs
and all if you can.

Catherine R.

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (5)
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7. Raw Suppliers MD
Posted by: "kevaquinn" wysteria_berkhoff@verizon.net kevaquinn
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:24 am ((PDT))

Hi All,

It's been a while since I posted here. I am putting a list of
suppliers together for work (I have 2 holistic vets that I work with)
and was wondering if any of you knew of any suppliers in the Annapolis
area. I would greatly appreciate it! We even have some clients on the
eastern shore so I will accept those too! Any info is welcome info!

Thanks
Wysteria

Messages in this topic (1)
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8a. Re: Don't know if I had a chance to introduce myself and I will shor
Posted by: "Shannon Parker" mrbatisse@yahoo.ca mrbatisse
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2007 1:06 pm ((PDT))

Diane,

Listen to Kathy. I started out just like you...spent $200 on a grinder, processed veggies, gave the supps. What a waste of money and time. I now feed prey model and we are all so much happier. THe dogs love meal time...it's so much more engaging for them now, and I love that I just have to throw the meat down on the ground and wash my hands. Easy as pie!

Good luck which ever way you choose to feed,

Shannon

katkellm <katkellm@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi Diane,
Please don't get mad at me when i say this, but I think that you might
want to rethink your feeding choices. You don't need to buy a grinder
because you really don't want to be feeding ground food.

you are missing out on a lot of great dental and
health benefits, as well as making a lot of extra work for yourself,
not feeding according to the recipe mother nature created long ago.
KathyM

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Messages in this topic (10)
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9. Swallowing big bones whole?!
Posted by: "mrskheath" mrskheath@yahoo.co.uk mrskheath
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2007 1:27 pm ((PDT))

My dogs had their first proper raw chicken today - just over a pound
for my boy and a little less for my puppy girl - she had wing and a
little carcass and he had a leg with carcass and the other wing (bout
1/4 a chicken really). It was great to see them tucking in, they loved
it. So much so in fact, that my male, Nanuq ran to the garden with it
and ate it very quickly. He used his teeth on some of it, but then he
swallowed the 'leg' part of the bone whole from what i could see,
maybe he semi-broke the bone once at the very most (hard to tell). Is
that okay? I keep trying to tell myself that I need to let him do
things his natural way. He seems fine, but will he be able to 'digest'
it properly before his body 'disposes' of it? I don't want him poohing
out full bones, could that hurt him? Have i given him a piece that is
too small for him? Just need to pt my mind at rest.

Karlene

Messages in this topic (1)
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10a. Re: eating 4 day old buried meaty bone?
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2007 1:49 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 9/12/2007 12:35:15 PM Pacific Standard Time,
mamacass@iprimus.com.au writes:

I'm happy to let Charlie eat his buried treasure so long as the long-time raw
feeders consider
this ok? (we're only 6 weeks into raw feeding here and loving it - why isn't
this standard
practice given a dog's dentition?!) I was thinking seeing as this has to be
instinctive for him, I
should trust his doggie wisdom?

Stephanie,

Our old man wolfdog, Jerry Lee, had a "food bank". One of the old dog houses
had some icky old blankets in it.. He would eat as much as he wanted when he
was fed, then he would take the rest out and bury it in the old blankets in
the dog house.

This was probably not his wisest move, he lived with a known food thief.
Wednesday, who was commonly known as the "box o rocks", was not as stupid as she
let on. She would wait until Jerry Lee had hidden his food, and gone to lay
down in his sleeping hole. And when she was certain he was asleep, she would
sneak into the "food bank" and eat whatever Jerry Lee had stashed.

Jerry Lee did get some of his food.. sometimes when there was something he
particularly liked he would just lay down in front of the dog house to keep
Wednesday out.. lol.

Burying food is no big deal.. some dogs like their meat "aged". Some dogs
are good self-regulators and will only eat what they need and save the rest for
later.

Catherine R.

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

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Messages in this topic (4)
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11a. Re: is this ok
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2007 2:00 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 9/12/2007 11:27:39 AM Pacific Standard Time,
mvd12720@yahoo.com writes:

is freezer
burned is that ok to give my dog???? also my dog will not eat fish
what should i do??

Melissa,

free meat is free meat.. never look a gift horse in the mouth. Freezer burn
is a taste thing, not a safety issue, humans don't like to eat freezer burnt
meat because it tastes bad, but the dogs really don't care as long as it's meat.

Catherine R.

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

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Messages in this topic (4)
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