[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12028

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: coprophagy
From: kahonebay

2a. Re: Is supervision required?
From: Laura Atkinson
2b. Re: Is supervision required?
From: costrowski75
2c. Re: Is supervision required?
From: katkellm
2d. Re: Is supervision required?
From: mousegirls

3a. Re: Goats with possible copper deficiency. Are they still good food?
From: costrowski75
3b. Re: Goats with possible copper deficiency. Are they still good food?
From: Maria

4a. Re: {Raw Feeding} GS Puppy - Aggressive eating puppy
From: Laura Atkinson
4b. Re: {Raw Feeding} GS Puppy - Aggressive eating puppy
From: Andrea

5a. Re: question about rabbits
From: SHERRY LANGEVIN

6a. Tomorrow is one month.....
From: mgn_moore
6b. Re: Tomorrow is one month.....
From: ed_hebel
6c. Re: Tomorrow is one month.....
From: Laurie Swanson

7. Update on Zoe
From: girlndocs

8a. Re: Hank's throwing up
From: mandajenwalker
8b. Re: Hank's throwing up
From: Andrea
8c. Re: Hank's throwing up
From: katkellm

9a. Re: Don't know if I had a chance to introduce myself and I will shor
From: Sandee Lee
9b. Re: Don't know if I had a chance to introduce myself and I will shor
From: dupontracefan

10a. Re: Should we avoid pork by Smithfield Foods?
From: Elizabeth
10b. Re: Should we avoid pork by Smithfield Foods?
From: lkanaday
10c. Re: Should we avoid pork by Smithfield Foods?
From: john payne

11.1. Newbie
From: great_dane_devotee
11.2. Re: Newbie
From: Daisy Foxworth
11.3. Re: Newbie
From: great_dane_devotee

Messages
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1a. Re: coprophagy
Posted by: "kahonebay" kahonebay@yahoo.com kahonebay
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:32 am ((PDT))

Hello Steve, I am by FAR an experienced raw feeder, but I have to share with you that my 2 1/2 year old 125 lb. male GSD was a serious poo eater before we started the herd to raw a few months ago. He no longer eats poo. Related to the switch? I personally think so only because it has completely stopped all together and immediately after we switched to raw. He still sniffs at it each time he goes or his sister goes, but he just walks away from it now. Could be coincidence, but either way I'm certainly pleased with the outcome! :)
Good luck!
Kris

>>Has anyone noticed if raw feeding effects changes in a dog with
coprophagy?<<

<<Steve -- in my experience, no. Dogs who were poop-eaters on ki**le remained poop eaters on raw foods...but whether it's related to their diet is unknown...-- Anne Moore>>>

---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (3)
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2a. Re: Is supervision required?
Posted by: "Laura Atkinson" llatkinson@gmail.com lauraatkinson2002
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:32 am ((PDT))

Sorta. Keep an eye out the window on them. The primary thing you're
watching for is choking or a stuck in the mouth bone. It doesn't happen
often, but when it does, every minute you spend is worth it. You don't have
to hover, obviously, but be aware of them. By now you know their "normal"
eating behaviors, so anything off will cue you to leave the window and head
outside to help if needed.

On 9/11/07, dianna_obrien <dianna_obrien@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I have been told I should supervise their eating but temperatures are
> falling here in Missouri and they eat outside. Do I have to keep
> supervising their meal time?
>
> Dianna

--
Laura A
Kaos Siberians http://www.kaossiberians.com
Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so.
Bertrand Russell

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (5)
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2b. Re: Is supervision required?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:51 am ((PDT))

"dianna_obrien" <dianna_obrien@...> wrote:
>> I have been told I should supervise their eating but temperatures
are
> falling here in Missouri and they eat outside. Do I have to keep
> supervising their meal time?
*****
How you care for your dogs is absolutely your choice. You do what
works for you and them. You can base your choies on what others do, or
you don't. Myself, I think it makes sense to monitor one's dogs.

I always do; always did when they were fed kibble. I don't care if
it's pouring rain or 100 degrees out there (well, I do, but so what?)
if my dogs are eating, I'm there to supervise the event. Now, normally
I adjust feeding plans to minimize the impact of weather, but if it
happens that weather's there when the dogs are eating, yup, I'm there
too.

I consider meal monitoring part of basic dog ownership responsibility.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (5)
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2c. Re: Is supervision required?
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:17 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "dianna_obrien" <dianna_obrien@...>
wrote:
> I have been told I should supervise their eating but temperatures are
> falling here in Missouri and they eat outside. Do I have to keep
> supervising their meal time?

Hi Dianna,
I live about 2 hours sw of Chicago, always feed outside, and always
stay outside with my dogs. On cold days, actually rainy ones are
worse, i make some coffee and celebrate the moments of my life
standing/sitting outside watching my 3 eat. Its also a great time to
talk on the phone because no one will venture outside and interrupt you
with stupid questions like "Where's my i pod?". KathyM

Messages in this topic (5)
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2d. Re: Is supervision required?
Posted by: "mousegirls" mousegirls@gmail.com ladysown
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:58 pm ((PDT))

i feed mine outside. I can easily watch from a window but I usually
don't bother. I figure after a year of feeding them, they'll be just
fine. :) They are dogs doing what dogs are supposed to do...eating
their food somewhat off the hoof. :)

annette
http://ladysown.blogspot.com/
http://rileysowner.livejournal.com/
http://vellengaviews.blogspot.com/

"What a man is alone on his knees before God, that he is, and no more".-Robert Murray M'Cheyne
"I believe that prayer is the measure of the man, spiritually, in a way that nothing else is, so that how we pray is as important a question as we can ever face"- J.I. Packer

Messages in this topic (5)
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3a. Re: Goats with possible copper deficiency. Are they still good food?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:41 am ((PDT))

"Maria" <plava_93@...> wrote:
Her friend Karen has 3 goats that are
> crippled because of probible copper deficiency, she has to kill them
> and take their livers for testing but I can have the rest. Would they
> be OK as about 1/2 of a dogs diet?
*****
Two things. One, probable doesn't mean for sure and two, so what? For
the goat, not good. For a predator that uses opportunity whenever
possible, crippled game is an easy score.

As part of a varied diet, I can't see a possible mineral deficiency
being harmful to your dog. When you say "1/2 a dogs diet" do you mean
it is your intention to rely on nothing more FOREVER AND EVER than
these three goats? Or that you will be relying on them for the time
being? Maybe as the sole source of food eventually you would have to
intervene; but as half the menu only until the three goats are used
up? IMO they're just part of the bigger picture.

> And one is a male in rut, would his "oysters" be good for a treat?
*****
Why not? Your dog will either eat them or he won't. Don't try to
predict the outcome unless you've got previous results to go by.

Feed them goats I say, and rejoice.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
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3b. Re: Goats with possible copper deficiency. Are they still good food?
Posted by: "Maria" plava_93@yahoo.com plava_93
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:45 am ((PDT))

I mean I will be feeding goat one day and another meat the next. I have
3 large dogs, there will be about 100-120lbs of goat once I trash the
intestines and that would only last a month but I will also be feeding
other stuff. The crippeled goats have been a on going problem for their
owner so chances are I will be getting more in the futre. I was reading
and goats do tend to have problems with copper but when their meat is
tested is shows normal levels, so after reading that it eased my
worries.

Thank you!
Maria.

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "costrowski75" <Chriso75@...> wrote:

> As part of a varied diet, I can't see a possible mineral deficiency
> being harmful to your dog. When you say "1/2 a dogs diet" do you
mean
> it is your intention to rely on nothing more FOREVER AND EVER than
> these three goats? Or that you will be relying on them for the time
> being? Maybe as the sole source of food eventually you would have to
> intervene; but as half the menu only until the three goats are used
> up? IMO they're just part of the bigger picture.

>

Messages in this topic (3)
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4a. Re: {Raw Feeding} GS Puppy - Aggressive eating puppy
Posted by: "Laura Atkinson" llatkinson@gmail.com lauraatkinson2002
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:45 am ((PDT))

Yes <g>

She sounds like a normal puppy to me. A thigh is like a fly to a 6 mo old
Siberian Husky puppy, I can't imagine how much less it means to a GSW.

--
Laura A
Kaos Siberians http://www.kaossiberians.com
Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so.
Bertrand Russell

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
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4b. Re: {Raw Feeding} GS Puppy - Aggressive eating puppy
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:12 am ((PDT))

You could feed bigger pieces of food that she has to contend with and
then take the food away when she has had enough. Freezing large food
is a great way to make her really take her time.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Brandi Bryant" <bbryant573@...>
wrote:
>
> Is there anything else I can do to slow her down a little?

Messages in this topic (3)
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5a. Re: question about rabbits
Posted by: "SHERRY LANGEVIN" luckymermaid@sbcglobal.net SherryL3
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:54 am ((PDT))

Hi,
thanks, I dont want to prep the rabbit, if I dont have to, but thought I'd ask anyway. Very interesting points. Liked reading them.
sincerely,
Sherry

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Messages in this topic (4)
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6a. Tomorrow is one month.....
Posted by: "mgn_moore" mgn_moore@yahoo.com mgn_moore
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:54 am ((PDT))

since my 3 year old boxer started eating RAW. She has only been given
chicken quarters and one turkey leg. However, she still has very runny
stools (when she goes, which isn't often). She does very well eating
the chicken quarters, but sometimes she acts as if she is not
interested. I usually feed her once, in the afternoon, and she will
occasionally leave it there for a couple of hours before returning to
it. Is all of this normal? Any suggestions would be greatly
appreciated!!
Thanks,
Megan

Messages in this topic (3)
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6b. Re: Tomorrow is one month.....
Posted by: "ed_hebel" edhebel18@lycos.com ed_hebel
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:59 pm ((PDT))

Maybe she doesn't like the way they taste. Give her some more variety
and include the chicken quarters on the itinerary. Other good things
that you could feed would include beef heart, chicken livers, pork,
and chicken backs, which are very cheap.
-Ed

Messages in this topic (3)
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6c. Re: Tomorrow is one month.....
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:43 pm ((PDT))

Hi Megan,

Was she more interested earlier on? How's her health/energy/etc.? Is
the chicken enhanced or does it have added flavorings (read the very
fine print)? That can be related to loose stool. She might be bored.
Since she needs more variety than that, anyway, I'd try another meat to
get some more info.

My dog eats anything I put down, but I don't feed much chicken.

Good luck,

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "mgn_moore" <mgn_moore@...> wrote:
she still has very runny
> stools (when she goes, which isn't often). She does very well eating
> the chicken quarters, but sometimes she acts as if she is not
> interested.

Messages in this topic (3)
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7. Update on Zoe
Posted by: "girlndocs" girlndocs@hotmail.com girlndocs
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:16 am ((PDT))

Hi all,

Thanks for your encouragement and advice. Yesterday Zoe ate a good
breakfast of cut-up chicken and scarfed down some ground beef for
dinner. I was cutting up a whole chicken laster in the day, and threw
her the heart -- she wasn't sure about it until one of our cats
approached to offer it a good home in case it was lonely, and then she
snarled the cat away from it and gulped it!

Today I decided I'd had enough of cutting up her chicken and gave her
a leg quarter; she tore into the drumstick with gusto and so far has
left the thigh, but I bet she'll be ready for it tonight.

Kristin

Messages in this topic (1)
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8a. Re: Hank's throwing up
Posted by: "mandajenwalker" walker1031@chartermi.net mandajenwalker
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:42 am ((PDT))

Hi everyone,
Thanks for your responses. I guess I should have been a little more
specific. I did do the gradual 2x's to 1 time a day thing. I don't
know for sure if it was gradual enough though. I did it in about a 5
day period. He has been fine until today......I am in my 3rd week
only of the raw feeding and he was free fed kibble prior to the raw.
So I didn't think that his body would take too much adjusting to
switch it down to one meal a day.....I will try giving him small meals
again at the end of the night and see if that will cure things.
The only concern I still have is that he is still acting like
something is in his throat ever since he threw up today......I'll have
to keep an eye on him.
Thanks again.
mandy

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "katkellm" <katkellm@...> wrote:
>
> I took him out for a potty
> > break and his stool was a little loose (after eating just chicken bone
> > from the night before)
> Hi Mandy,
> The loose stool is probably from feeding him more food at one meal
> than he is use to, and i would second Yassy's opinion that the bile
> vomit was the result of a tummy that was expecting food to arrive, had
> digestive juices ready to go to work, and when no food came, up they
> came because they didn't have a job to do. KathyM
>

Messages in this topic (7)
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8b. Re: Hank's throwing up
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:52 am ((PDT))

Hmm, if you've been transitioning to one meal a day it might be because
he ate a particularly boney meal last time. When Geiger was starting
out he would get bone and bile vomit from eating super boney meals. I
would imagine that you wouldn't have much of a problem with a more
meaty meal.

As far as his continued hacking, it may be that one of the bone
fragments irritated his throat on the way out. As long as it doesn't
seem to be affecting his mood or activity level I wouldn't worry about
it.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "mandajenwalker" <walker1031@...>
wrote:
> I didn't think that his body would take too much adjusting to
> switch it down to one meal a day.....I will try giving him small
> meals again at the end of the night and see if that will cure
> things. The only concern I still have is that he is still acting
> like something is in his throat ever since he threw up

Messages in this topic (7)
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8c. Re: Hank's throwing up
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:57 pm ((PDT))

I am in my 3rd week
> only of the raw feeding and he was free fed kibble prior to the raw.
> So I didn't think that his body would take too much adjusting to
> switch it down to one meal a day

Hi Mandy,
I don't think that you can judge his raw food digestibility to his
kibble ability. I guess it might kinda be like saying that i should
be able to eat a whole lot of steak because i'm use to eating a whole
lot of Trix. Its always a safe bet to back things up and go to what
was working for you. KathyM

Messages in this topic (7)
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9a. Re: Don't know if I had a chance to introduce myself and I will shor
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:04 pm ((PDT))

Hi Diane,

What exactly have you been feeding this little guy? When you say you
generally order your raw food...are you referring to prepared ground raw
mixes?

Ground beef is ok once in a while if you happen to find a deal you just
cannot pass up, but you should be concentrating on feeding him nice large
whole foods. No need for a grinder and you don't need to add a bunch of
vitamins and supplements to his diet. Feed him a good, varied diet and let
his body take what it requires from his food. You can get into some pretty
serious issues by over supplementing, especially in a giant breed growing
puppy.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "dupontracefan" <dupontracefan@yahoo.com>

Thanks to all that responded. I did cut up a few of them and took out
the bone, added his yogurt, vitamins and suppliments and he loved them
so I will just keep an eye on him today for some stool changes.
Thanks everyone, just learning this raw stuff and usually I order my
raw food but I am trying to find a meat grinder (I like to give his
suppliments and vitamins in a.m. with ground up meal) and learn all
the different foods that I can purchase and do it myself. So bare
with me if I ask alot of questions, lol. One more thing while I have
you helpers here, I have also NEVER feed packaged from grocery store
ground beef or ground sirloin (well you get the picture, the stuff we
make hamburgers from). Is that ok to give also or does the packaged
ground beef have too much grease/fat in it?

Messages in this topic (8)
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9b. Re: Don't know if I had a chance to introduce myself and I will shor
Posted by: "dupontracefan" dupontracefan@yahoo.com dupontracefan
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 2:16 pm ((PDT))

> Kathy,
> Please don't EVER think I would be mad at you or anyone else on this
> group. That is why I joined to learn, learn, learn. Yes, it would
> make my life sooooo much simpler without the grinding so thanks so
> much for that info. I guess there is just so much info out across
the
> great web that you just don't know what to do. I have read websites
> that say they are raw but yet they have recipes in the files in
their
> groups that they cook portions (rice, veggie's, etc.) then there are
> GD groups I belong to that some feed raw and some still feed kibble
> (believe me I totally believe in the raw diet and my husband even
> works at a dog food company that I can get cheap and I mean cheap
> employee discounts, example: 50 lb bag of kibble for only 3-4
dollars
> depending on the brand but I refuse) that give their GD's all kinds
of
> supplements and vitamin C, omega's, etc. etc. So you see it is so
> confusing. I am here to learn and so far I have learned alot.
> Thanks for all the info,
> Diane
>

Messages in this topic (8)
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10a. Re: Should we avoid pork by Smithfield Foods?
Posted by: "Elizabeth" lizabeth_us@yahoo.com lizabeth_us
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:58 pm ((PDT))

I was doing a search the other week and came across that Smithfield
foods has bought almost all the pork producers out. I don't think
that there are too many little guys left-except for the organic and
natural ones here and there. I was looking up to see if there were
any additives in some of their foods.
Elizabeth

I live in NC and there are many Smithfield farms and packing plants
> around. I don't believe that our pork is a problem and I doubt they
> import anything from Romania. I give their meat to my dogs (as well
as
> myself and family).
> Penny & The Menagerie
>

Messages in this topic (8)
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10b. Re: Should we avoid pork by Smithfield Foods?
Posted by: "lkanaday" lkanaday@yahoo.com lkanaday
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:41 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "gevan1a" <gevans@...> wrote:
>
> However, I've never seen a Smithfield pork product on the shelves
that
> wasn't "enhanced", so I wouldn't feed it to my dogs anyway.
>
> -George
>

Well, in that case, if I ever see it, I guess I won't get any.
LaHoma

Messages in this topic (8)
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10c. Re: Should we avoid pork by Smithfield Foods?
Posted by: "john payne" brendajohn2823@yahoo.com brendajohn2823
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:56 pm ((PDT))

storage

lkanaday <lkanaday@yahoo.com> wrote: --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "gevan1a" <gevans@...> wrote:
>
> However, I've never seen a Smithfield pork product on the shelves
that
> wasn't "enhanced", so I wouldn't feed it to my dogs anyway.
>
> -George
>

Well, in that case, if I ever see it, I guess I won't get any.
LaHoma

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (8)
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11.1. Newbie
Posted by: "great_dane_devotee" libpowers@mac.com great_dane_devotee
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:00 pm ((PDT))

Hi,

I'm new to the forum. I have some history with feeding raw. I've done BARF, I've done
hommade dog food with cooked grains, I've done BARF patties, and I've done a "good
quality kibble". The problem I've experienced is that raw feeding takes so much time.
Time to run down the food, time to portion it out and freeze it so that you don't have to
run it down so frequently, time to -with BARF- grind up the veggies. And cost. It was
pretty expensive feeding a giant and a large dog chicken backs and necks, how much
more will it be costly to feed whole chickens?

AACK! I love my dogs, but they are not my whole life! Does anyone do this who has
figured out how to bring it into their life?

I live on 7 acres and raise my own steer for my family's food, but when I fed a different
dog raw meaty beef bones, she broke a tooth, so I have concluded that beef is out.

How do you do this and not have it cost so much? And finlly, where do you get a variety if
meat?

Thanks. I'd love to feed my dogs the best diet, because one suffers yerribly from allergies,
and the other (younger) seems to be developing them.

Libby

Messages in this topic (100)
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11.2. Re: Newbie
Posted by: "Daisy Foxworth" daisyfoxworth@yahoo.com daisyfoxworth
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:19 pm ((PDT))

The problem I've experienced is that raw feeding takes so much time.
>

Hi Libby, sounds like you were needlessly complicating your life.
Take a look here, LOL:

http://www.rawfeddogs.net/Recipes

Daisy

Messages in this topic (100)
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11.3. Re: Newbie
Posted by: "great_dane_devotee" libpowers@mac.com great_dane_devotee
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:57 pm ((PDT))

Thanks, Daisy,

I will take the list to my butcher and ask him to set some of whatever he sees that is like
this aside for me. Perhaps I can ask him to freeze it and once a month pick it up from
him.

That would be really sweet. However, I know that October is his crazy beef month and I
don't want to push him over the edge.

Libby

-- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Daisy Foxworth" <daisyfoxworth@...> wrote:
>
> The problem I've experienced is that raw feeding takes so much time.
> >
>
> Hi Libby, sounds like you were needlessly complicating your life.
> Take a look here, LOL:
>
> http://www.rawfeddogs.net/Recipes
>
> Daisy
>

Messages in this topic (100)
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