[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12021

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Hurt Puppy
From: Anna Labriola

2a. Re: How Many Times A Day To Feed
From: katkellm
2b. Re: How Many Times A Day To Feed
From: Mona
2c. Re: How Many Times A Day To Feed
From: lar07911

3a. Re: A Little Freaked Out
From: Roxane Graham
3b. Re: A Little Freaked Out
From: Morledzep@aol.com
3c. Re: A Little Freaked Out
From: Mary

4a. Re: Hi, new here, need help with raw feeding my siberian huskies
From: mrskheath

5a. Re: raw feeding for 2 years, suddenly very sick * update-looks like
From: Giselle

6. Different coloured liver and kidneys (for eating, not the dogs orga
From: Judith Kellett

7a. Large dog with diarrhea for a few days....
From: Ivette Casiano

8a. Re: amalyse(sp?)-irritated pancreas
From: lizwehrli
8b. Re: amalyse(sp?)-irritated pancreas
From: rokedemyah

9a. dogs chewing RMBs
From: luvmyberner_bernerlove
9b. Re: dogs chewing RMBs
From: Andrea
9c. Re: dogs chewing RMBs
From: Laurie Swanson

10a. Re: Aggression!!!
From: Mona
10b. Aggression!!!
From: Ivette Casiano
10c. Re: Aggression!!!
From: Mona
10d. Re: Aggression!!!
From: heather pavelin

11a. Stinky Kitchen
From: michelleraia1
11b. Re: Stinky Kitchen
From: Laurie Swanson
11c. Re: Stinky Kitchen
From: Kaitlin Fraser

12a. Re: Gurgling tummies and fairly new to raw
From: Giselle

13a. Re: Salmon oil questions
From: Yasuko herron

Messages
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1a. Re: Hurt Puppy
Posted by: "Anna Labriola" taggartgalt@yahoo.com taggartgalt
Date: Sun Sep 9, 2007 3:41 pm ((PDT))

> Glad your boy wasn't more badly hurt.
> Young dog's bones growth plates can be damaged from injury to them;

Thanks, Giselle. I remember seeing him hit the ground and
thinking, "Oh, s!#!, he broke his leg!" I never, EVER want to hear
my dog make a noise like that again!! It was an awful experience. I
guess I should say I'm a human physical therapist and the vet was
nice enough to allow me to review the xrays with him. All his growth
plates looked good(thank goodness, you know I was asking!) which
leaves me to be worried about his ligaments and the shadow over his
hock. :o) We really, really, were lucky yesterday.

Okay, so nothing special regarding diet with an orthopedic injury.

> 3) Stress can cause loose stools, but true diarrhea is a side effect
> of disease, imo. Loose, runny or sloppy stools can result from new
> foods, too much food at one time, too much new foods, newly
introduced
> proteins, boneless meals, organs, etc. Loose poops are not
necessarily
> a bad thing.

His stools were liquidy, not "can't control it, gotta go diarrhea."
He's had two soft movements since the injury. I' ve never done the
SEBP 'cuz even when mom was dumb and gave him a whole liver and he
went 4 times during the night, he never was disturbed or out of
control. He woke me up, he went outside, had the cannonball squirts,
then was happy to go back inside and go right to bed. Gave me the
wiggle butt and everything. According to list guidelines, that's not
diarrhea, right?

> 4) Constipation and gut irritation can result from pain meds and
anti
> inflammatories

I'm definitely aware of this as well, cuz the same thing happens to
humans. :o) Thanks for the advice, I guess maybe this will be the
longer term side effect(now he's liquidy!)

> 5) IMO, dry skin cannot be helped by feeding sardines.

I guess my thought on this was to add omega threes by using food
versus adding "capsules." I hate to supplement my diet with anything
except food. Is this incorrect thinking?

> 6) If your pup has 'skin allergies', or sensitivities at this young
> age, I'd look to eliminating chemicals and additives from his foods,
> supps and environments.

He DOES have very, very sensitive skin. I started him on a pinch
(after severely bruising and scraping my hands first) and he welts up
after use. I don't correct him, just keep a shorter leash and allow
the pinch to remind him not to pull. So, I know it wasn't me being
abusive, just figured he was allergic to it. I bought a
hypoallergenic one, and that one has been good so far. I guess my
only options to remove chemicals are to buy organic(whew $$!,) stop
heartguard and frontline(though I take him to doggy day care and they
require it.) Other than that, what else can I do?? I guess the
holistic vet can give me some more ideas, too, tomorrow.

As far as how Khan is doing, are you kidding? :O) I let him out to
go "outside" off leash and had to chase him down the sidewalk. Damn
dog is faster than me with just three legs! He's actually starting
to rest it down sometimes and sometimes put weight on it. He's
moving the leg more, stretching it out, laying on it. He is sleeping
more, but I'm sure the tramadol is helping him sleep, as well as the
trauma. Oh, he's also on "carprophen" which is one of the NSAIDS(you
did post the link to that, thanks.)

Thank you so much for the info, Giselle!! And for caring!
> TC and let us know how you and Khan progress!
> Giselle
> with Bea in New Jersey

Thanks again,
Anna (and poor, gimpy Khan, who doesn't seem to realize that he's
hurt.)

Messages in this topic (3)
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2a. Re: How Many Times A Day To Feed
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Sun Sep 9, 2007 3:43 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Roxane" <roxanegraham@...> wrote:
>
> It looks like a lot of people feed raw once a day and I was wondering
> why they do so. I do like to feed twice a day, is there some reason I
> should not.
>
Hi Roxane,
There is no "rule" reason not to feed twice a day, but there are some
things for you to consider when you decide what is best for you and
your dog and that might even include feeding less often than once a
day. I think that you will find that feeding twice a day
doesn't allow you to get the maximum benefits of feeding a raw
diet--dental cleaning and mental and physical challenge. Raw feeding
seemed to be, for me, an evolving process. I started out feeding twice
a day and realized that they weren't really getting to do lots
of chewing because the portions were just too small for involved
eating. So, i dropped down to one meal a day. After a few months of
feeding once a day , i celebrated Thanksgiving by giving each dog a
whole turkey. They loved it. They had to gnaw and chew and twist their
heads and really use their teeth and their brains to eat that thing.
They started out eating the turkey at an " i better get this thing
down pronto" pace to just sitting there and resting a little, chewing
again, relaxing a little.. Now i feed on a "no schedule" schedule, and
it seems to work the best for me. I feed based on the size of what i
have to feed, not the day,the clock, or the scale. Since feeding
random days at random times, my dogs eat slower. They are not food
obsessed anymore, and i honestly think they enjoy their food more. I
think that feeding this way allows them to experience eating the way
mother nature intended for them to eat --like the wolves that they
are. JMO, KathyM

Messages in this topic (6)
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2b. Re: How Many Times A Day To Feed
Posted by: "Mona" mona@ptd.net deliriousmom
Date: Sun Sep 9, 2007 5:57 pm ((PDT))

Kathy, this is really food for thought (pardon the pun lol) for me! It does
make a lot of sense.

Mona

"They started out eating the turkey at an " i better get this thing
down pronto" pace to just sitting there and resting a little, chewing
again, relaxing a little.. Now i feed on a "no schedule" schedule, and
it seems to work the best for me. I feed based on the size of what i
have to feed, not the day,the clock, or the scale. Since feeding
random days at random times, my dogs eat slower. They are not food
obsessed anymore, and i honestly think they enjoy their food more. I
think that feeding this way allows them to experience eating the way
mother nature intended for them to eat --like the wolves that they
are. JMO, KathyM"

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
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2c. Re: How Many Times A Day To Feed
Posted by: "lar07911" lar07911@yahoo.com lar07911
Date: Sun Sep 9, 2007 6:43 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Roxane" <roxanegraham@...> wrote:
>
> It looks like a lot of people feed raw once a day and I was wondering
> why they do so. I do like to feed twice a day, is there some reason I
> should not.

For my little dog and her energy level, she burns a lot of energy and
often vomits up bile at random times if she hasn't had enough to eat.
I have done what other people have told me to and switched up her
feeding schedule with little to no luck. She knows when she is full
and walks out of her crate when she is finished. Often times there is
still a lot of meat present. Sometimes she barely eats and sometimes
she gorges herself.

I feed several times a day because it works best for my dog. I have
tried to feed her one big meal only that day and she will almost
always throw up that night or the next morning.

I think it is a personal choice and what works best for you and your
dog! It makes sense to me that people feed one large portion a day
and sometimes skip meals like what would happen in the wild, but so
far that approach hasn't worked for my little one. Hope this helps!

Laura

Messages in this topic (6)
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3a. Re: A Little Freaked Out
Posted by: "Roxane Graham" roxanegraham@yahoo.com roxanegraham
Date: Sun Sep 9, 2007 3:43 pm ((PDT))

I do understand that he needs more meat than that, I have a bunch of bonless chicken breast that I am trying to use up, thats why I went with the wing section just to add some bone. Roxane



Sandee Lee <rlee@plix.com> wrote:
You most likely don't have anything to worry about, but you definitely want
to feed larger and meatier than wings!

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Roxane" <roxanegraham@yahoo.com>

I am just starting my pug on raw. I gave him part of a chicken wing for
his bone. I cut the wing at the joint so he got about a 3 inch piece.
He Swallowed it whole, should I worry about this? Roxane

---------------------------------
Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (5)
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3b. Re: A Little Freaked Out
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Sun Sep 9, 2007 3:54 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 9/9/2007 2:00:44 PM Pacific Standard Time,
roxanegraham@yahoo.com writes:

Swallowed it whole, should I worry about this?

Roxanne,

is he having trouble breathing? choking? if not.. he'll most likely be
fine. But in the future you want to feed BIGGER food, especially to a pug. Pugs
as a breed seem to have an extreme need to gulp their food.. Always feed
bigger than the dogs' head, especially in the beginning when dogs are VERY eager to
eat.

After a few months, when he gets used to this fancy cool new food, you may be
able to reduce the size of the hunks o meat and he may just chew them without
a problem.

Catherine R.

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (5)
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3c. Re: A Little Freaked Out
Posted by: "Mary" maryjwilliams@comcast.net ryanlw23
Date: Sun Sep 9, 2007 4:28 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Roxane.

I have two pugs and they are notorious for gulping. I am pretty sure
your pug will ok and now would be time to start thinking offering your
dog bigger pieces. Not only will this help prevent the gulping, but
it will give their jaws a work out in addition to some teeth cleaning
action.

I try to feed my pugs pieces such as chicken quarters, Cornish game
hens, and whole quails. Anything else I feed, I make sure it cannot
be gulped before offering it to them.

--Mary W.

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Roxane" <roxanegraham@...> wrote:
>
> I am just starting my pug on raw. I gave him part of a chicken wing for
> his bone. I cut the wing at the joint so he got about a 3 inch piece.
> He Swallowed it whole, should I worry about this? Roxane
>

Messages in this topic (5)
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4a. Re: Hi, new here, need help with raw feeding my siberian huskies
Posted by: "mrskheath" mrskheath@yahoo.co.uk mrskheath
Date: Sun Sep 9, 2007 3:43 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "carnesbill" <carnesw@...> wrote:
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "mrskheath" <mrskheath@> wrote:
> >
>
> >
>
> Again chicken necks are too small. Turkey necks are ok if you feed
> them whole. Most grocery stores sell turkey necks cut in half. A
> whole turkey neck is about a foot long and often weighs over a lb.
>
> > I'll be honest...I am not as informed about all this as id like to
> be, and info is limited on raw feeding sites.
>
> Get the book "Work Wonders" by Tom Lonsdale. You may download the
> book for $9.95 from http://www.ebookmall.com/ebooks-authors/tom-
> lonsdale-ebooks.htm or order hard copy either at
> http://www.dogwise.com or at http://www.amazon.com (cheaper).
>
>
> I don't know where you got that information but the correct ratio is
> 1 meat/bone/organ to 0 veg. Dogs have no need for vegs, can't
> digest them and can't extract nutrients from them. That ration
> sounds like a human ratio. Dogs are not humans. Their body is
> designed much differently than ours and their nutritional
> requirements are a lot different.
>
> Bill Carnes
> http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm
>
> Feeding Raw since October 2002
>
> "Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
> Dr. Tom Lonsdale
>

Thankyou all for your guidance. I am glad the fruit and veg isnt
necessary, its hard work blending all that.

Can the chicken bones hurt him? I just have this image of my mind of
wild dogs eating bigger prey with tougher bones. Should I remove any
particular bones which pose a threat to him? Should I watch him
carefully first time with a chicken to make sure he doesnt choke? I
probably sound overly fussy, but like anyone I love my dogs and worry
that they will be hurt.

I can get chickens and turkey necks locally but not really rabbit
(hard to come by fresh where i live), joints of beef on the bone that
dont cost the world - in the south of uk it can be costly? Any tips
for obtaining the food at cheaper cost? The frozen 'prize choice' ones
that I am / was feeding are/were convenient (they just defrost and are
ready) and it costs me just £2.75 per 2Kg. So it works out cost
effective too, any ideas?

Messages in this topic (5)
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5a. Re: raw feeding for 2 years, suddenly very sick * update-looks like
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sun Sep 9, 2007 4:18 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Trish!
I'm with Ginny and Jennie on this.
And, I think its perfectly reasonable to want to have your dog at home
where you can keep her under your personal care.

IME, most vets will have a tech teach you how to push sub Q fluids to
help keep your dog hydrated and teach you how to pill too, so you can
take them home.

Also, ime, dogs do better when at home.

Tell your vet its a budgetary issue, and don't take "We have a payment
plan.", or "We take credit cards." as an answer!

I never let my kid stay at a hospital without me when he was ill. And
my dogs never stayed unless critically ill. They came home with me
asap. Most (all?) vets won't let you stay with your dog, but unless
she is critically ill, she needs to be home with you. I've even taken
a dog home at night, and had them at the vets during the day.
btw, I had a friend, who was a nurse, crawl into the crate at the vets
with her dog who had an endoscopy done. (long story) She refused to
leave him after she found out there would be no one with him
overnight. ; )

Why is she on Prednisone? I'd wean her off asap.

TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> Thank you for the concern Ginny and Jennie, they have her on IV with
> nothing by mouth.
<snip>
> After doing a lot of reading on the forums I discovered the link
> between prednisone and pancreatitis. She has been on the pred every
> other day now for a few weeks.
<snip>
> > ******
> > > Scares the hell out of me, sorry. Go get her, why don't you? They
> > > can't do anything until they get the results anyway.
> > >
> > >
> > > ginny and Tomo, being unreasonable
> >
> > *****
> >
> > OMG I SOOOO agree with Ginny - go get your baby first thing tomorrow
> > morning if you can't get to her today!!!!!

Messages in this topic (8)
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6. Different coloured liver and kidneys (for eating, not the dogs orga
Posted by: "Judith Kellett" llan@ozemail.com.au llan1965
Date: Sun Sep 9, 2007 4:27 pm ((PDT))

Lighter colour in organs usually relates to younger animals. Lamb's
liver is paler than older sheep, similarly older cattle have darker
liver & kidneys. If you can find pale beef liver,it's actually veal
liver & a luxury for humans. Just don't cook it till it's dry-
undercooked is nicest.
I don't know the US situation, but for a very long time dog owners
in Australia were vigorously discouraged from feeding sheep offal to
dogs, as it perpetuated the existence of a tapeworm that was very
dangerous to humans (google "Hydatid cysts").
Cheers,Judy and Wallace the happy.

Messages in this topic (1)
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7a. Large dog with diarrhea for a few days....
Posted by: "Ivette Casiano" ivettecasiano@yahoo.com ivettecasiano
Date: Sun Sep 9, 2007 4:28 pm ((PDT))

Laura, the people on this list are going to give you fantastic advice. Read all of it.
I have a 90 lbs. pure breed Lab. About 2 weeks after I started him on all raw he suddenly vomitted one day and had 4 days of diarrhea. I had introduced several different kinds of protein that week, including some liver (about 10% of his meal). I stopped everything but the chicken right after he vomitted. I couldn't understand why he still had diarrhea. I had followed all the instructions that the people on this list had given me and he still had diarrhea. I finally got some slipper elm (the fourth day) and bought some fresh chicken, fed him a little more bone at each meal and VIOLA!! all better.(I never fasted him nor gave him anything but raw protein, no dairy, no veggies, no fruit, nothing cooked and certainly NO KIBBLE NOR CANNED DOG FOOD).
After he was better for 2 weeks I introduced the same proteins as before and he was fine. The only variable that I hadn't considered was that the chicken I fed him when he vomitted was quite "stinky" and continued to feed it to him because so many people here on this list say their dogs eat it and it's ok. I guess my dog had a more sensitive digestive tract. He's been fine ever since and has had all the same proteins and liver. Since then the rule at my house is, "if the humans won't eat it, the dog doesn't get it either". I have returned chicken to the supermarket that has smelled awful since then because I didn't want this happening again.
I have been giving him digestive enzymes since I started him on raw to help him with the transition because of his sensitive digestive tract but am weaning him from it. The bottle is almost finished now and I'm not buying any more.
Good luck.

Ivette Casiano
"Live for today, plan for tomorrow"

---------------------------------
Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today!

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Messages in this topic (7)
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8a. Re: amalyse(sp?)-irritated pancreas
Posted by: "lizwehrli" lizwehrli@yahoo.com lizwehrli
Date: Sun Sep 9, 2007 4:29 pm ((PDT))

Beckie,

I have been following this thread since you first posted. My dog Gus,
Standard Poodle was diagnosed with pancreatitis in Nov. 2005. He had
a very elevated amylase but not the lipase. He was treated for
pancreatitis. OOPS, that wasn't it. After 4 months of struggling
with "specialists" I finally figured out what was wrong with him. He
has addisons disease, an adrenal insufficiency. After over a year, he
still has an elevated lipase. High amylase and lipase is the indicator
of pancreatitis I believe. Gus never had any symptoms of
pancreatitis. Because I was concerned, it was over 500 pts. higher
than the reference ranges, I faxed all of his blood tests to Dr. Jean
Dodd. She evalutated and said it's nothing. Don't worry. As time has
gone by and we monitor his blood for his AD, it continues to go down.
2 pts is actually within the margin of error for the equipment used.

Liz

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee Lee" <rlee@...> wrote:
>
> Beckie,
>
> There are many causes of pancreatitis...drugs such as prednisone
being one
> of them.
>
> But your dog's amylase was not elevated enough to cause any concern.
>
> Sandee & the Dane Gang
>
> From: "beckie716" <beckie716@...>
>
>
> Whoa! I just read in another post that there may be evidence of a link
> with prednisone/pancreatitis.

Messages in this topic (11)
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8b. Re: amalyse(sp?)-irritated pancreas
Posted by: "rokedemyah" rokedemyah@yahoo.com rokedemyah
Date: Sun Sep 9, 2007 5:10 pm ((PDT))

Ok al tha tmakes sense . I told ya, Im a rank newbie.LOL
Now all I have to do is find a raw feeder vet and once we get set up
for it i'm good to go. Is any one on list doing strictly herbal
treatment for problems with raw feed critters? Reason I ask is we
have been doing that with all our pets for years but Id love to find
folks like minded in that specific area. For the record yes I looked
at the homopatic list, its not appropiate for that area.
Barb

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Deena" <mottola@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Barb,
>
> IMO, it depends on *which* enzymes are high or low.
>

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9a. dogs chewing RMBs
Posted by: "luvmyberner_bernerlove" jodycaira@charter.net luvmyberner_bernerlove
Date: Sun Sep 9, 2007 4:42 pm ((PDT))

My 70 lb dog will chew all the meat off of RMBs even when I feed
easy/softer bones like turkey necks, most ribs (lamb, goat, pork) and
turkey legs. What's left when he's done chewing the meat away is
naked bones and in my mind one big choking hazard, so I wind up
taking the bones away from him. Because of this I have begun to get
out my meat mallet for turkey neck crushing and buying ground
meat/bones - therefore HE loses the benefits of chewing bones,
getting proper calcuim and I lose track of what goes in.

Do most dogs this size eagerly chomp through meat and bones together?
Or chew the meat away first and eat the naked bones last? Do I need
to worry that a naked bone ribcage/neck/or other edible bone is being
chewed on?

His teeth and jaw seem fine. Everything this dog does, he does
gently - even eat.

I know he will eat whole chicken/rabbit, I don't really feed chicken
though.

What else should I try? I need to get some good edible bone in him.

Thank you.

Jody

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9b. Re: dogs chewing RMBs
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Sun Sep 9, 2007 5:58 pm ((PDT))

-- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "luvmyberner_bernerlove" <jodycaira@...> wrote:

> Do most dogs this size eagerly chomp through meat and bones together?
> Or chew the meat away first and eat the naked bones last? Do I need
> to worry that a naked bone ribcage/neck/or other edible bone is being
> chewed on?

It depends. Sometimes the dogs will strip the meat from a pork shoulder first and then
eat the bone, sometimes they eat it together. Most of the time they eat the meat and such
off of ribs before consuming the bone. Pork necks generally get eaten all at once but beef
/buffalo just get the meat stripped off.

If your dog is willing to eat the bone after the meat is gone I wouldn't consider it a choking
hazard unless he is still trying to eat it with gusto. Mine are pretty tired by the time they
get down to consuming the leftover bone so they aren't prone to stupid eating. I might
worry about the turkey necks, though.

> What else should I try? I need to get some good edible bone in him.

Keep in mind that he doesn't need a whole lot of edible bone in his diet. A chicken or
rabbit here and there should suffice if he decides not to eat the bone in other foods you
offer. If it is a big bone aversion he might get over it, or he just might like to eat his meat
first.

Andrea

Messages in this topic (3)
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9c. Re: dogs chewing RMBs
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Sun Sep 9, 2007 6:41 pm ((PDT))

Hi Jody,

Have you ever let him actually eat say, a lamb or pork rib, then, or
have you always taken them away? If he's eaten any, how did he do?
So, does he do well with a whole rabbit? You could feed more of
that. How can he get the meat off a turkey neck without eating the
bone?!

Can you get any other necks (lamb, pork, goat?)? Those are great,
safe bones for my dog (as long as they aren't cut into small pieces)--
he cleans off the meat, but then chomps the bones into very
manageable bits. Any hunk of goat is good, too. Like a 5# goat leg
or shoulder w/ribs--make that last for a few meals. Would be very
hard to end up with any choking hazards with that type of part. My
dog chomps meat and bone when the bone is softer, like poultry and
rabbit. But others are mostly cleaned off and eaten.

I think maybe you need to think bigger? Even if he strips the meat
off a goat leg, most if not all of the bone that's left will be
safely eaten. I can see your concern if he ends up with a small
naked bone he can eat in one gulp, but by then he may be full enough
to eat it appropriately. If you are still concerned, by all means,
remove it. And continue trying to find the "just right" bone size
for your dog.

And remember, he doesn't need a LOT of bone. :-)

Hope that helps,

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "luvmyberner_bernerlove"
<jodycaira@...> wrote:
>
> My 70 lb dog will chew all the meat off of RMBs even when I feed
> easy/softer bones like turkey necks, most ribs (lamb, goat, pork)
and
> turkey legs. What's left when he's done chewing the meat away is
> naked bones and in my mind one big choking hazard, so I wind up
> taking the bones away from him.

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10a. Re: Aggression!!!
Posted by: "Mona" mona@ptd.net deliriousmom
Date: Sun Sep 9, 2007 5:08 pm ((PDT))

Sandee,

Just joined the other list and waiting for approval, great idea, thanks!

Mona

From: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com [mailto:rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Sandee Lee
Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 3:49 PM
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [rawfeeding] Aggression!!!

Mona,

Go over to the rawchat list and read past messages about resource guarding.
We have discussed this issue quite often.....
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawChat/

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Mona" <mona@ptd.net <mailto:mona%40ptd.net> >

What the heck is this all
about and what do I do to nip it in the bud?? I CANNOT have a food
aggressive dog in my home as I ALWAYS have young kids around (my 7yo
twin girls included)!

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Messages in this topic (8)
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10b. Aggression!!!
Posted by: "Ivette Casiano" ivettecasiano@yahoo.com ivettecasiano
Date: Sun Sep 9, 2007 5:08 pm ((PDT))

Mona,
Give Bella at least a few weeks to relax about her new food. I think Annette is right, she really really likes her new food and isn't getting enough of it. I believe your Bella is a pretty big dog, she should be getting at least a quarter chicken for her meals. Once she realizes that she will be getting more of this all the time, she'll relax. Our Lab (90 lbs.) had a lamb bone once at the end of his meal when my boyfriend thought, that's too big for him to eat I'd better take it away, so he walked over to take the bone and Nugget just swallowed the whole bone so he wouldn't get it. He eventually threw it back up because the bf was right, it was too big but he didn't give Nugget the benefit of the doubt that he would chew it up and then eat it. We try to stay away from him when he's eating, not because he'll be aggressive but because we don't want him to gulp his food for fear of having it taken away. He now knows that we will give it back so we have taken it away a few
times then given it back to gain his trust. Your Bella is too young and too new to raw to know that.
Be patient.

Ivette Casiano
"Live for today, plan for tomorrow"

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Messages in this topic (8)
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10c. Re: Aggression!!!
Posted by: "Mona" mona@ptd.net deliriousmom
Date: Sun Sep 9, 2007 5:57 pm ((PDT))

Ivette & the others who've answered

First off I want to thank you all soooo much for your support! As you can
tell I was panicking and had I thought it thru I prob would have come to a
similar conclusion. I'm going to start giving her larger portions of food
and play the games with her to show her its all good and she needn't worry
about anyone in our family taking her food. I'm going to keep in mind all
that advice about how she if finally getting REAL food and the lightbulb
prob went off in her brain when she realized what real food tastes like and
I'm fairly certain she won't ever want to go back to the very expensive
supposedly healthy CRAP she was eating prior LOL.

On a lighter note, I just realized that I can't wait for my in-laws to come
over for dinner so I can see their reaction when I take a perfectly good
hunk of meat and throw it on the floor for the dogs to eat,LOL. That's
gonna be a Kodak moment if ever there was one!!! They already think I'm
nuts since I nursed my twins till they weaned and tv is limited in our home
and I buy organic stuff etc etc etc. They are really gonna think I've gone
over the deep end now!

Regards,

Mona

PS: Just so you know, my hubby is totally supportive of our lifestyle and I
don't want to bad-mouth his parents, they are very loving people actually
and we get along fine, they just think I'm nuts is all LOL.

From: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com [mailto:rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Ivette Casiano
Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 7:55 PM
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [rawfeeding] Re:Aggression!!!

Mona,
Give Bella at least a few weeks to relax about her new food. I think Annette
is right, she really really likes her new food and isn't getting enough of
it. I believe your Bella is a pretty big dog, she should be getting at least
a quarter chicken for her meals. Once she realizes that she will be getting
more of this all the time, she'll relax. Our Lab (90 lbs.) had a lamb bone
once at the end of his meal when my boyfriend thought, that's too big for
him to eat I'd better take it away, so he walked over to take the bone and
Nugget just swallowed the whole bone so he wouldn't get it. He eventually
threw it back up because the bf was right, it was too big but he didn't give
Nugget the benefit of the doubt that he would chew it up and then eat it. We
try to stay away from him when he's eating, not because he'll be aggressive
but because we don't want him to gulp his food for fear of having it taken
away. He now knows that we will give it back so we have taken it away a few
times then given it back to gain his trust. Your Bella is too young and too
new to raw to know that.
Be patient.

Ivette Casiano
"Live for today, plan for tomorrow"

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (8)
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10d. Re: Aggression!!!
Posted by: "heather pavelin" hpav061378@yahoo.com hpav061378
Date: Sun Sep 9, 2007 6:41 pm ((PDT))

*On a lighter note, I just realized that I can't wait for my in-laws to come
over for dinner so I can see their reaction when I take a perfectly good
hunk of meat and throw it on the floor for the dogs to eat,LOL. That's
gonna be a Kodak moment if ever there was one!!! They already think I'm
nuts since I nursed my twins till they weaned and tv is limited in our home
and I buy organic stuff etc etc etc. They are really gonna think I've gone
over the deep end now!*



Hehe we live with this lifestyle also but my mil is who got me into it and its my mom who thinks I am nuts! She just glazed over when I told her about the raw diet. She has a chiwawa (I know I butchered that) that has some issues health wise but hey she eats fast food all the time so she doesnt listen to anything I say. I think its fun to show people my dogs chowing on their chicken halves lol. Good luck Heather

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Messages in this topic (8)
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11a. Stinky Kitchen
Posted by: "michelleraia1" michelleraia1@yahoo.com michelleraia1
Date: Sun Sep 9, 2007 5:09 pm ((PDT))

My husband says our who kitchen area stinks like raw meat all of the
time. I clean the counters after preparing the meals~is there anything
else I can do~I don't want him to hate raw feeding...HELP~

Michelle

Messages in this topic (3)
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11b. Re: Stinky Kitchen
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Sun Sep 9, 2007 6:42 pm ((PDT))

The main thing I've found with regards to this is to take the garbage
out right away and not let the packaging or bits I trim off sit in
there and rot. I don't see why anything would stink if you clean the
sink and counters and take out the garbage. Maybe your husband is
extra sensitive or has a super sense of smell. If you have a window
in the kitchen, air it out a bit. Or use a little bit of one of
those natural citrus air sprays. They work wonders and don't smell
perfumey. Maybe set out a box of baking soda?

Just a few thoughts,

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "michelleraia1"
<michelleraia1@...> wrote:
>
> My husband says our who kitchen area stinks like raw meat all of
the
> time. I clean the counters after preparing the meals~is there
anything
> else I can do~I don't want him to hate raw feeding...HELP~
>
> Michelle
>

Messages in this topic (3)
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11c. Re: Stinky Kitchen
Posted by: "Kaitlin Fraser" fraserk7@hotmail.com fraserk7
Date: Sun Sep 9, 2007 6:42 pm ((PDT))

Purchases glad air thingy:P I had th same problem with my mother... but the
only reason she said it was to try and get me to stop feeding raw peroid.
Try keep an air fresher around ... something soft to lighten up the room.
Also if by any change you are throwing bones into the garbage cause the dog
didn't eat them... bingo... that's a source of stink. I give beef bones(
which trust me Malo can eat a beef bone... just not all of it always)... and
if will toss out the left overs ... but I freeze it then toss it... and make
sure I get rid of the bag ASAP.

Kaitlin Fraser
Prince SJA therapy dog, CGN
Jester SJA therapy dog CGN
Wenlisa's Command Performance HIC, CKC PTd "Malo" A work of art in
progress.( Raw Fed, )
Sheep's Kin Unusually Unusaul Kiska- Another work of art in even more
progress.( Raw fed)

No dogs are vaccinated in my home.

" No one can walk into a room and bring as much joy, happyness and love as a
single dog can"

>From: "michelleraia1" <michelleraia1@yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
>To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [rawfeeding] Stinky Kitchen
>Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2007 23:55:46 -0000
>
>My husband says our who kitchen area stinks like raw meat all of the
>time. I clean the counters after preparing the meals~is there anything
>else I can do~I don't want him to hate raw feeding...HELP~
>
>Michelle
>

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Messages in this topic (3)
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12a. Re: Gurgling tummies and fairly new to raw
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sun Sep 9, 2007 5:52 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Pamela!
Have you tried any other proteins?

There's a lot to choose from.
Why not try turkey, or pork, or rabbit, or fish, or ....

IMO, loud tummy gurgling is the opposite of what I'm worried about
with bloat. No bowel sounds mean digestion has effectively stopped.
Farting and belching I also consider good. : )

Did you check the label on the chicken to be sure there are no salt
solutions, water, seasonings or flavor enhancements added to the
chicken you're feeding?
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> Matisse, my 10 years old standard poodle, has all the same stuff. Some
> fingers point at chicken allergy.
<snip>
> I am new to this, but find that introducing a new protein very slowly
> helps. I am very interested in what the group says about this.
>
> Pamela Picard
> http://www.pet-wellness-update.com
> http://aimees-law.blogspot.com/
> aimees_law-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>

Messages in this topic (4)
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13a. Re: Salmon oil questions
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sun Sep 9, 2007 6:44 pm ((PDT))

>Is it okay to do this just to get them to take the oil, or does anyone have other >suggestions?

Hi. I think if you choose learner ground meat like chicken or Turkey,and maybe you can make thumb nail sized meatball mixed with fish body oil.That way,you may no need to worry about runny poo etc.

I myself is giving capsule and, palette was trying to chew like eating rib bone,and took a day or so that she can swallow it without actual chew. It was funny she looked like mice:-P

If you someday decided to give fish oil capsule,not pump,you can put dash of yogurt cheese about pinky nail size around capsule,and dog would swallow without any hesitation.

It is much healthier than coating pill with peanut butter.

yassy

ps;if you needed to know how to make yogurt cheese,please send me a private message and I tell you how to. It is pretty easy.

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Messages in this topic (4)
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