[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12018

There are 15 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. [Raw Feeding] Findings and Questions
From: Brandi Bryant

2a. Re: Intro with questions
From: linoleum5017

3. Different coloured liver and kidneys (for eating, not the dogs orga
From: trayck

4.1. Re: Help!
From: linoleum5017
4.2. Re: Help!
From: Giselle

5a. Re: fish body oil
From: costrowski75

6a. Re: Salmon oil questions
From: costrowski75
6b. Re: Salmon oil questions
From: ginny wilken

7a. Re: raw feeding for 2 years, suddenly very sick * update-looks like
From: ginny wilken

8a. Re: are hearts good meat?
From: Bumble1994@aol.com

9.1. Question
From: Brandi Bryant

10a. Re: Veal Raw Meaty Bones
From: mousegirls

11a. Re: amalyse(sp?)-irritated pancreas
From: rokedemyah

12a. Re: Large dog with diarrhea for a few days....
From: pitty_pat1
12b. Re: Large dog with diarrhea for a few days....
From: Cdandp2@aol.com

Messages
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1. [Raw Feeding] Findings and Questions
Posted by: "Brandi Bryant" bbryant573@gmail.com bbryant573
Date: Sat Sep 8, 2007 10:46 pm ((PDT))

OK - I've got my dogs on Chicken, turkey and pork. I did some major
shopping today - went to Homeland and got some chicken that had been
marked down, got some turkey that had already been cut up that was
cheap (less then $1.00/lb), got a turkey, and then went to Walmart hit
the mother load - I got 2 Bone In Pork Shoulder for $1.08/lb and I got
a Pork Shoulder Butt Roast for $1.62/lb.

Now for the questions: when I feed the shoulders and the Butt Roast -
can I just plop it on the ground and let all 4 of them eat on it? And
if I do that do I leave it down until it's gone, or until they walk
away from it? Or would it be better to cut it up and divide it among
them, I could let the 2 girls eat on some of it then let the 2 boys
eat of off the other half (I don't think I have food aggressive dogs,
but then again they've never had an oppurtunity to eat together like
this either)My only other issue is how would I manage to cut it up
everything that needs to be cut up I've been using my kitchen shears
for? My other question is where in the world do you get Salmon Oil
from I can't find it at any of other grocery stores - the only place
that I haven't looked for it is Food Pyramid (was Albertson's) -if a
store has it in this town they would BUT if I can't find it there -
can I get Fish Oil capsules? And I've been wanting to get Max on some
Omega 3's, I know you can feed them can fish like Sardines any other
suggestions, any no-no's that I should know about when looking for
fish in the can? And I'm too avoid Cod Liver Oil, right?

Thanks for your suggestions in advanced.
Brandi
Bartlesville, Ok
www.obediencetrainingclubofbartlesville.com

Messages in this topic (1)
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2a. Re: Intro with questions
Posted by: "linoleum5017" linoleum5017@yahoo.com linoleum5017
Date: Sat Sep 8, 2007 10:47 pm ((PDT))

Hi,Mona,

If you email me off-list and tell me where in PA you are, several of
us may be able to join forces with you. Drop me a line.

Lynne

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Mona" <mona@...> wrote:
>
> I used to give Snickers raw turkey & chicken necks as
> a treat a couple of times a week a few years ago as they were
readily
> available, but when I moved to PA (from NYC) I could no longer find
> them so I stopped.

Messages in this topic (4)
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3. Different coloured liver and kidneys (for eating, not the dogs orga
Posted by: "trayck" trayck@yahoo.com trayck
Date: Sat Sep 8, 2007 10:48 pm ((PDT))

Hi Group,

I've just been shopping for the kids and went to get my weekly heart,
liver and kidney rations.

I buy them prepackaged from the supermarket meat section as it is
easiest for me to source and also store as I don't have much freezer
space.

While I was sifting through searching for the right weight packets I
noticed that the colour of the liver and kidneys ranged from a nice
healthy looking dark brown in one packet to a washed out sickly pale
brown in another.

Can anyone tell me why this would be so? All of them have the same
expiry date so they haven't been sitting there longer than others.

Would the pale colour mean that the animal they came from processed
more toxins in its life than the darker ones and to avoid buying the
pale ones?

Or are they all OK and should I just ignore the colour differences?

Thanks

Tracey S
Brisbane
Australia

Messages in this topic (1)
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4.1. Re: Help!
Posted by: "linoleum5017" linoleum5017@yahoo.com linoleum5017
Date: Sat Sep 8, 2007 10:48 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "czab_ca" <czab_ca@...> wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> I just joined the list to start feeding my dog raw food. I have a
30
> lb. Shiba Inu, and for the last 2 weeks, I've been mixing either
> chicken or beef with his kibble food. I'm going to start feeding
him
> just raw this week, but I don't know how much to feed him each day.
> Also, does he need to eat bones everyday?
>
> Thanks for your help.
>
> Chrystine
>
*****
Me, oh my o, Chrystine, please do read posts on this list before
jumping into things.......

But since you've leapt a'ready, do indeed stop w/the k****e, and get
to the raw. It's fairly important not to mix meats right off the
bat, as it can cause gastric distress in your Shiba Inu (?)

Lynne

Messages in this topic (40)
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4.2. Re: Help!
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sun Sep 9, 2007 1:59 am ((PDT))

Hi, Chrystine!
Welcome to the raw side! ^_^
My recommendations:

1. You want to start with 2-3% of your dog's ESTIMATED IDEAL ADULT
weight. Tweak with more meat if your dog gets a bit skinny, a bit less
if your dog gets 'fluffy' over the space of a few weeks. You might
start out by weighing your dog, and weighing her meals; but most peeps
don't continue once they get more comfortable and casual about feeding
raw. Tiny, toy, pregnant, puppies or very active dogs might need as
much as 4-5% or more - very large, giant, overweight or couch potato
dogs might need less than 2% to maintain.

2. Ditch the kibble or canned â€" there’s been plenty of discussion on
this list about why processed foods and raw don't mix; just let it
suffice that your dog can reap the benefits of raw faster and more
completely if you donate the kibble to your local shelter asap. A
species appropriate raw whole prey model diet doesn't include kibble.
Or veggies, grains or tons of supps. Or, for the most part, ground
meats. No need for w/rec/k bones either. And, your dog may be less
motivated to make the change if he can smell that kibble!

3. Feed at least 2 meals a day to start with. (three meals for a pup
under 6 months old or for tiny dogs) Feeding once a day (or even less
often) can be a great feeding plan for a dog, but not at first; too
much new food at a meal can cause digestive upset. Feed as large a
portion as you can for the size of the meal. No little pieces or cut
up, ‘bite sized’ chucks. Dogs need to tear into their food and shear
hunks off to swallow and crunch bone for physical, mental and dental
health. They don’t chew or eat the way we do, their digestion begins
in their stomachs, not in their mouths. So swallowing big hunks of
meat and bone is fine. If it fits, its OK. If it isn’t happy in the
stomach, the dog will hork it up, and re eat it, so it will go down
and stay down the 2nd or 3rd time. All good, that’s the way dogs are.

4. Feed a little less at each meal at first than you think you should.
Too much new food over the course of a day or two can cause digestive
upset, too.

5. Stay with one new protein for at least a week, maybe two. You want
the dog to be showing you he is well adjusted to the new protein
before adding in new stuff. Take it slow; add only one new protein
every week or two.

6. You can switch to a new protein by just serving it at the next
meal, and all the meals after that for a week or so, or you can add a
bite or two of the new protein in with the 'old' protein, gradually
adding more new and less 'old' over several days, until you are
feeding all new and no 'old'. Whatever works for your own dog.

7. Boneless meals tend to produce loose, even runny poops. A judicious
amount of bone in a newbie dog's meal will tend to firm things up.
There will be less poop overall; raw is much more digestible and less
goes to waste. Poops will be less frequent also, for the same reason.
Bone adds bulk, so sloppy poops can be firmed up by some (don't go
overboard!) bone at each meal at first. Too much bone and your dog
can get “ fossil” poops that are dry, whitish and crumbly.

8. Chicken is recommended as the first protein to be introduced for
several reasons: its cheap, easy to obtain, easy to cut into different
dog meal sized portions, you can trim visible fat and skin if you need
to tweak, most dogs will eat it and its pretty bland. Read the labels
on the chicken before you buy; don't get any that say its enhanced
with flavoring/seasonings or salt injected. Some dogs get itchy or
vomit or get true diarrhea from enhancements. Whole chickens are the
best to start with, ime. Cut into portion sizes with kitchen shears,
as needed.

9. Some newbie dogs vomit or poop bone bits. There is an adjustment
period, so you want some bone in most meals at first, but too much
bone may not be digested and the dog will just hork it up or poop it
out. NPs, its just the dog's way of saying "Too much right now, no
thanks."

10. Some dogs will get the Bile Vomits or Bone Bile Vomits (BV or BBV)
when new to raw simply because their schedules or routines of eating
have been changed. When a dog adjusts to raw, his gastric 'juices'
become much more acid, to better digest the raw meat and bone. If he's
expecting a meal at a certain time, the 'juices start flowing' in
anticipation of getting a meal. When the meal doesn't happen, the dog
often will hork up the yellowish, foamyish bile, with or without
bones. Sometimes they hork up BBV because raw digests faster than
kibble, the tummy is empty, so it must be time to eat. NP for the dog,
he's gotten rid of the irritation. He may react as if he feels bad,
just because you are upset that he did it on your new comforter, or on
the white carpet.

11. A lot of dogs don't drink as much water or as frequently when
switched to all raw, all the time. Raw has a pretty high water content
and most dogs are forced by dry as dust kibble to over drink water to
compensate in order for their bodies to process it. If only fed raw,
you don't need to coax your dog to drink more water or even broth,
just offer plenty of fresh water, he'll drink when he needs it.

12. True diarrhea is not just loose, runny or sloppy poops. It is
frequent, liquid or watery explosions of poo that a dog cannot 'hold
back'. True diarrhea, imo, is caused by disease, parasites or
inappropriate food or non food items. The occasional loose poops, even
over a few days, from feeding a few too many boneless meals or
introing a new protein or feeding too much organ at one whack, is not
diarrhea.

13. The general rule of thumb for feeding raw is: 80% meat (muscle,
fat, skin, connective tissue) 10% EDIBLE bone (not all bone that is
served must be consumed) and 10% organs (5% of this is liver, the rest
is as much variety as you can find and afford) This is not an
immutable 'daily requirement'. Balance Over Time, over weeks and
months is one of the raw feeding mottos. ; ) If you feed true whole
prey, that is; entire animals at a time, then the meat to bone to
organ ratios are 'perfect' for that creature. Whatever parts your dog
can eat of is right for him. In the wild, wolves will eat off a large
animal carcass for days, and each wolf gets different parts. If times
are hard, they will consume the entire critter, including skin, fur,
less 'choice' parts and will even crack the hard long bones to get to
the marrow. If pickin's are plentiful, they will eat the easiest and
choice parts, and then move on. Because of variances in size, age,
personality, life experiences and dental ability, a particular dog
will be able to consume, or not: all or part or some or a little bone
from any particular animal. If you feed 'Frankenprey', that is; a
variety of protein, body parts and organs from different animals, to
simulate the whole prey experience for your dogs, you are challenged
to find enough variety in all these aspects for optimal health.

14. Organs - don't try to add a lot of organs or organ variety at
first. An easy way to satisfy the human need to "Do it all, right
now!", is to toss the gizzards and heart you get with your whole
chickens in with a bonier meal, a little piece at a meal. Heart and
gizzards are organs, but should be fed as meatymeat. The liver can be
cut up into teensy bits, and fed a tiny bit at a time with a meal.
This will allow you to feed organs, but shouldn't cause runny stools.
If it does, cut it out and freeze those parts for later down the line.
My list of organs, so I don't forget to look for variety; liver, heart
(fed as meat), cheek meat, head meat, salivary glands, feet, lips,
oxtail, spleen, tongue (usually fed as meat), weasand meat
(esophagus), tripe, stomach, sweetbread (thymus & pancreas), ears,
kidneys, brain, tripe, poultry giblets - heart, liver, gizzard and
snouts. Heads, with all the ‘stuff’, including eyes.
"offal" - viscera and trimmings of a butchered animal often considered
inedible by
humans.

15. SEBP - Slippery Elm Bark Powder. This is a good innocuous herb
that soothes the stomach and digestive system. If you feel you need to
intervene when your dog has loose poops or constipation, this is the
way to go. SEBP is "used to treat diarrhea, constipation, enteritis,
colitis & irritations of the stomach. Used to soothe, protect &
lubricate mucous membranes. Also, used to relieve the discomforts of
kennel cough & other types of bronchitis."
http://fiascofarm.com/herbs/supplements.htm
I use 1 tsp of SEBP to one ounce of ground or chopped chicken. Mix
together and shape enough meatballs for several days doses, and freeze
them. They thaw quickly. For small dogs, divide in 1/2 ounce
meatballs, for large to giant dogs, 1 ounce meatballs. Feed 1 with
each meal. Or, fast for a day, (not for pups, fast for just a meal or
two) offer plenty of water. Feed SEBP meatballs 3-4 times throughout
the day. Feed smaller, more frequent meals for several days after,
gradually increasing the meals and decreasing the SEBP meatballs. You
will often see an increase in mucousy poops with SEBP, this is part of
the way it soothes the digestive system, and the dog's body will do
the same sometimes even without SEBP.

16. You can feed pretty much any animal or animal part that your dog
will eat and that won't break the bank. : ) Common grocery store
variety suffices for some; chicken, turkey, pork, beef, lamb, fish,
rabbit. Others can obtain at a reasonable price and feed; goat,
venison, emu, ostrich, bison, beefalo, elk, mutton, mice, rats, guinea
hen, quail, bear (bear? ;) ), the list goes on and on.

17. If you must supplement, you can add Salmon or Fish Body oil,
either in caps or liquid. Make sure it doesn't have any plant based
oils, like soy, in there. You probably don't need much. Follow the
recommendations that come with the product you buy:
http://timberwolforganics.com/pet-omega-oils

http://www.icelandpure.com/salmon_oil.htm

In the case of true
disease, you may need certain supps, but this is the exception to the
rule, most dogs don’t.

18. Lis' List; ways to creatively source cheaper variety in protein,
parts and organs. FreeCycle and craigslist are great ways to find a
free or cheap freezer to hold all the scores you'll be making!

“ Where do you look for meat suppliers?

Permission to repost from Lis

A) Look up meat and poultry packers, processors, and distributors in
the yellow pages. You may be able to get great prices from them if
you order in bulk, and/or they may have a discount outlet that is
open to the public.
B) I get many of my best deals in Asian/Oriental markets. I've also
heard that Hispanic and Caribbean markets have great variety and
prices too.
C) You may be able to join a barter group.
D) Google breeders (i.e. rabbit, goat, lamb, etc.) who are in your
geographic area. They may have culls they want to get rid of, or
lower prices overall.
E) Look up bulk suppliers and frozen bulk foods in your yellow pages.
F) If you have a Chinatown nearby, definitely make a visit.
G) Let your friends, relatives, and neighbors know you want any
freezer burn or old meat when they clean out their freezers, and tell
them to pass the word along.
H)If you belong to a church or social group, tell those members to
mention it to their friends and relatives as well.
I) See if there are any co-ops or meat buying groups near you. Check
on Yahoo, or Google to see.
J) Try craigslist - it's amazing what you can get for free or cheap.
K) And I get meat and fish all the time (for free) through
FreeCycle. Join multiple lists if there are a few close by.
L) Some Wal-marts and some Costcos and some Sam’s Clubs have good
deals, but you may want to make sure it's not seasoned meat.
M) Definitely watch the flyers, and you can usually see the rest
of the flyers online (the ones that don't get delivered to your house,
but are only a short drive away).
N) *** Hands down, the bulk of my best deals have been marked down
meat at regular grocery stores. They reduce it the day before it is
going to expire, and I go as early as I can to get it before it is
gone.
O) Tell friends and relatives who hunt and fish that you want first
dibs on any body parts they don't. You can probably get at least the
organs and maybe the head. Also ask them to put you in touch with
their other friends who hunt and fish.
P) A great tip I learned here a while back â€" some restaurants
throw out things they don't use, like the organs that come inside
whole poultry, or raw meat that falls on the floor. See if they'll
save them for you. Find somebody who knows somebody who works there.
Q) Farmer's markets are great, but pick and choose carefully for the
best bargains. And sometimes at the end of the day some vendors will
reduce their prices, ‘cause they don't want to take it back with them.
R) Some people contact taxidermists, who have no use for the meat.
S) Find people on this list from your vicinity, and ask them where
they get their meat deals. Join other raw feeding lists (there are
many), and ask if there are other raw feeders in your area.
T) Tell your butcher you want the meat that they would normally
throw out, that is almost out of date, that people ordered and didn't
pick up, stuff that was dropped on the floor, their freezer
cleanouts, and parts that don't sell (like trachea, lungs, spleen,
etc.). Some butchers will save their trim for you (once they get to
know you). Build a relationship with them first.
U) Yes, roadkill works too (where it is legal). In some places you
can get your name on the list and get called when they have large
roadkill. (like deer)
V) You can raise your own meat/poultry if you have the room.
W) Post a message in Carnivore Feed-Supplier or CFS-Canada if you are
in North America:
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/CarnivoreFeed-Supplier/
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/CFS-Canada/
X) Speak to local farmers.
Y) Also, look for heart, tongue, and gizzards, which count as meat (as
opposed to organ) in the world of raw feeding, but are often cheaper
than other muscle meats.
Z) Find somebody who knows somebody who works at the grocery store.
They can introduce you to the meat guy, who may become more willing
to save stuff for you or reduce items about to expire, once they know
you.
AA) Check the internet. Some suppliers have affordable prices, even
after shipping costs are calculated.

Lis”

19. Don’t hover! It takes some dogs a couple of days to realize that
what you’re giving them is real food, and they’re allowed to eat it.
This process will take less time if you’re not standing over them in
an excess of anxiety. Some dogs react to that kind of anxiety by
acting as if they don’t want the food, when in reality, they are just
confused by your mixed signals. Remember, “people food” has always
been off limits to him prior to this! Take the food to his feeding
place, put it on an old towel or rug and have a seat. Don’t stare, but
do hang out, reading a magazine until he’s done and you can let him
outside and fold up his towel.

It really isn't that hard to raw feed your dog. There's a learning
curve, definitely. But, that's what this list is here for.
Read as many daily posts as you can, read the files on the website,
and follow those links! Search in the archives for past posts with
keywords; new to raw, newbie, help, how do I start or other words that
reflect your specific search.
Raw chat is a good resource for those doggie Qs not suitable for the
raw feedinglist;
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/RawChat/?yguid=200913350
TC, and let us know how you and your dog progress!
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> Hi everyone,
>
> I just joined the list to start feeding my dog raw food. I have a 30
> lb. Shiba Inu, and for the last 2 weeks, I've been mixing either
> chicken or beef with his kibble food. I'm going to start feeding him
> just raw this week, but I don't know how much to feed him each day.
> Also, does he need to eat bones everyday?
>
> Thanks for your help.
>
> Chrystine
>

Messages in this topic (40)
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5a. Re: fish body oil
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sat Sep 8, 2007 10:57 pm ((PDT))

Yasuko herron <sunshine_annamaria@...> wrote:
>> Chris O told list before that it washard to find Fish oil because
many was combo with Omega6 or 9 or something. So,I was curious.
>
> I live in VA,and it may depends on location but mine did not have
combo in shelf. Omega 3 fish body oil capsules but I found almost all
bottle (I did not pick up all of the bottles there but) with soy in it.
*****
I was referring to the Rexall brand oil Walmart carries (at least
carries here in Calfornia). Previously I was able to get FBO and SO
straight, without the added "benefits" of 6 and 9. Now I cannot. Also
when I went Googling for Rexall SO I was not able to find the product
I'd previously purchased.

It has been difficult for some time now to find retail FBO without soy;
it's possible of course.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (2)
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6a. Re: Salmon oil questions
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sat Sep 8, 2007 11:04 pm ((PDT))

"pigasus718" <pigasus718@...> wrote:
>
Tonight, out of
> desperation, I mixed the oil in about 1/4 cup of ground chuck and
they
> just ate it up. I haven't fed ground meat before and seems like
most
> are against it since it is not prey model appropriate.
> Is it okay to do this just to get them to take the oil, or does
anyone
> have other suggestions?
*****
I'm sure there will be other suggestions. However, it's fine to use
ground meat to hide all manner of supplements, oil included. Perhaps
as your dogs become accustomed to the flavor they will need less
subterfuge.

> Also, is it okay to measure out their dose and let it come to room
temp
> before feeding? Mine hate anything even remotely cool and since it
has
> to be refrigerated that's been a drawback also.
*****
The oil is fragile, so I don't recommend letting it lay around
indefinitely at room temp, but setting out the dose to warm up some
doesn't seem excessively rough.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
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6b. Re: Salmon oil questions
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Sat Sep 8, 2007 11:40 pm ((PDT))

On Sep 8, 2007, at 8:17 PM, pigasus718 wrote:

> Does anyone have any special tricks to get their dogs to eat this?
> I got some Timberwolf salmon oil and put it on their beef and they
> wouldn't touch it. Tried for several feedings. Tonight, out of
> desperation, I mixed the oil in about 1/4 cup of ground chuck and they
> just ate it up. I haven't fed ground meat before and seems like most
> are against it since it is not prey model appropriate.
> Is it okay to do this just to get them to take the oil, or does anyone
> have other suggestions?
> Also, is it okay to measure out their dose and let it come to room
> temp
> before feeding? Mine hate anything even remotely cool and since it has
> to be refrigerated that's been a drawback also.

Beating oil with a raw egg is usually a hit here. There's nothing
wrong with ground for this; we use it for pills every day. Tripe is a
wonderful fish oil vehicle! In any case, you can start with a little
and work up, and, yes, it's OK to warm it before you feed it.

Do they eat canned fish? You can dump the oil right in with sardines
or mackerel. If they value your table scraps, you can dump some of
those, too. Tomo routinely finishes up my scrambled eggs with oil on
them.

ginny and Tomo

All stunts performed without a net!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
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7a. Re: raw feeding for 2 years, suddenly very sick * update-looks like
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Sat Sep 8, 2007 11:37 pm ((PDT))

On Sep 8, 2007, at 9:26 PM, Trish wrote:

> ***MODERATOR'S NOTE: PLEASE TRIM YOUR MESSAGES.***
>
>
> The vet is keeping Molly until Tue. Nothing on xray. Initial blood
> work makes him think pancreatitis. Results to follow. If anyone has
> any experience with this issue we would greatly appreciate it. Of
> course the first response from friends and family is "is it the raw
> food?" Not helpful. Very sad here in our home.

Tuesday? I hope like heck someone is there to look after her, and
that they have a reason for keeping her from her family! I don't like
that at all. Why couldn't they just do the lab work, give some
support if he wanted, and send her home? What kind of crap will they
feed? A lot of places say they won't keep your animal if it's not on
flea protection, and they reserve the right to dose them with it.

Scares the hell out of me, sorry. Go get her, why don't you? They
can't do anything until they get the results anyway.

ginny and Tomo, being unreasonable

All stunts performed without a net!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (5)
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8a. Re: are hearts good meat?
Posted by: "Bumble1994@aol.com" Bumble1994@aol.com bumble1994
Date: Sun Sep 9, 2007 3:00 am ((PDT))

In a message dated 9/9/2007 1:46:07 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
"quiltingtuppy" writes:

I can get beef hearts quite cheaply, I've heard they have taurine in them
and that they're a
muscle - are they as good a meaty meat as other cuts of meaty meat because
if so I'll make
that an affordable larger chunk of his meaty intake?

****
Yes, they are good meaty meat, and lucky you! I have to pay $2 a pound for
them but I still feed all I can afford. :)

Lynda

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
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9.1. Question
Posted by: "Brandi Bryant" bbryant573@gmail.com bbryant573
Date: Sun Sep 9, 2007 3:00 am ((PDT))

Ok, since my GS puppy is 6 months and the other pup is almost 10 month
- do I still need to be feeding them 2 times a day - or can I just go
to one a day feeding for all 4 of them the other 2 are adult male GSs?

Thanks

--
Brandi
Bartlesville, Ok
www.obediencetrainingclubofbartlesville.com

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10a. Re: Veal Raw Meaty Bones
Posted by: "mousegirls" mousegirls@gmail.com ladysown
Date: Sun Sep 9, 2007 4:51 am ((PDT))

Would depend a bit on what type of veal perhaps.

white veal, those bones would be softer as white veal comes from
milkfed, unexercised calves.
Red veal comes from calves less than 6 months old (generally speaking)
these calves are not milk fed, are on calf-starter and hay and get to
run around like normal calves. Those bones would be harder

But both are from calves. If the dog can eat them just fine that tells
you a lot.

If your dog is as careful an eater as my smaller one is, the size of
bone doesn't matter. If it's too hard she leaves it, if it's soft she
carefully chews regardless of the size. Too small and it's left as well.

So bone issues really depends on your dog's abilities and carefulness
(that and your comfort level).

--

annette
http://ladysown.blogspot.com/
http://rileysowner.livejournal.com/
http://vellengaviews.blogspot.com/

"What a man is alone on his knees before God, that he is, and no more".-Robert Murray M'Cheyne
"I believe that prayer is the measure of the man, spiritually, in a way that nothing else is, so that how we pray is as important a question as we can ever face"- J.I. Packer

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11a. Re: amalyse(sp?)-irritated pancreas
Posted by: "rokedemyah" rokedemyah@yahoo.com rokedemyah
Date: Sun Sep 9, 2007 4:51 am ((PDT))

the question that pops into my rank beginners mind is, since your
feeding real food, why would the enzymes not be a bit higher. real
food contains enzymes.
Barb

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "beckie716" <beckie716@...> wrote:
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee Lee" <rlee@> wrote:
> >
> > An elevation of 2 points on one enzyme is probably not cause for
> concern.
> > Was the dog fasting? Any symptoms??
> >

Messages in this topic (5)
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12a. Re: Large dog with diarrhea for a few days....
Posted by: "pitty_pat1" pitty.pat1@gmail.com pitty_pat1
Date: Sun Sep 9, 2007 5:21 am ((PDT))

We've been feeding him raw for at least 6 months now, so it's not
really new to him. He eats primarily chicken leg quarters. Primarily
= 90% of the time. We've tried to introduce other things, but he
refuses to even try them. He will eat beef, but I've read that dogs
shouldn't eat beef. That doesn't make sense to me, but I limited it
just in case. He's had turkey and pork once or twice. He will eat
livers or giblets if they are mixed in yogurt. He's a big fan of
yogurt. It's not a daily part of his diet by any means, but he does
get it occasionally if he has diarrhea or if I want him to eat liver
or giblets. We've tried to feed him rabbit, but he will go hungry for
2 days and still refuse to touch it.

The person who first introduced me to raw feeding said yogurt might
help with occasional bouts of diarrhea, and in the past it has cleared
it up right away. I usually use goat yogurt...this time I haven't
been able to get that yet, so it's been plain cow milk yogurt....but
even that has helped in the past. The raw egg and apple he has eaten
before without a problem....I guess I just thought it would be
something more filling than plain yogurt, and easier to digest than
meat and bones. Didn't realize it could exacerbate the problem since
it hadn't been a problem before. Now I feel bad :(.

He didn't eat anything yesterday....besides a few cat food crumbs, so
we'll re introduce some meat without skin or fat today and see what
happens. As for probiotics, can he eat people probiotics? Or do I
have to get special dog ones? I'd think people ones would work, but
I'm just making sure. And I'll look up slippery elm and see what
that's all about.

Thanks so much for your help.

Laura

Messages in this topic (5)
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12b. Re: Large dog with diarrhea for a few days....
Posted by: "Cdandp2@aol.com" Cdandp2@aol.com cdandp
Date: Sun Sep 9, 2007 5:38 am ((PDT))

Someone noted the need for water, but if the dog has had this for 6 days,
I'd want to consider subq fluids asap. Do you have a vet that would at least
do that for you without getting into all the rest? Then I'd want to try to
slippery elm or pumpkin (canned non-spliced plain). Both have worked wonders
for my dogs. But the dehydration would be my first concern.

Carol for Spencer

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

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