Feed Pets Raw Food: [rawfeeding] Digest Number 12022

There are 19 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Hurt Puppy
From: Giselle

2a. Re: dogs chewing RMBs
From: katkellm

3a. hi
From: Ramona Lione
3b. Re: hi
From: Giselle

4a. Re: Hi, new here, need help with raw feeding my siberian huskies
From: Giselle
4b. Re: Hi, new here, need help with raw feeding my siberian huskies
From: carnesbill

5a. New to raw feeding and technology!
From: jetmaxcar
5b. Re: New to raw feeding and technology!
From: Giselle

6a. {RawFeeding & Raw Chat}Sharing meat between dogs
From: Brandi Bryant
6b. Re: {RawFeeding & Raw Chat}Sharing meat between dogs
From: katkellm

7a. Re: How Many Times A Day To Feed
From: costrowski75
7b. Re: How Many Times A Day To Feed
From: temy1102

8a. ADMIIN/Re: Aggression!!!
From: costrowski75

9a. Different coloured liver and kidneys (for eating, not the dogs orga
From: costrowski75

10a. Re: amalyse(sp?)-irritated pancreas
From: costrowski75

11a. Re: Gurgling tummies and fairly new to raw
From: costrowski75

12a. Trichinella concerns?
From: basilbourque
12b. Re: Trichinella concerns?
From: Sandee Lee

13a. Re: Stinky Kitchen
From: ginny wilken

Messages
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1a. Re: Hurt Puppy
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sun Sep 9, 2007 6:58 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Anna!

<snip>
I
> guess I should say I'm a human physical therapist and the vet was
> nice enough to allow me to review the x-rays with him. All his growth
> plates looked good(thank goodness, you know I was asking!) which
> leaves me to be worried about his ligaments and the shadow over his
> hock. :o) We really, really, were lucky yesterday.

**** One thing to think about. My son fell off his bike and broke his
elbow when he was, oh, 10yo. The orthopod put him in a cast even tho'
there were no signs of a break at that time. After two, maybe three
weeks he had him come back again for x-rays. There it was! He said it
was common for breaks not to show in young bones at first. He
monitored that elbow for some time, even after the cast was off, to be
sure the growth plate was OK. ****
<snip>
> His stools were liquidy, not "can't control it, gotta go diarrhea."
<snip>
According to list guidelines, that's not
> diarrhea, right?

**** imo, Yup! ****

<snip>

> > 5) IMO, dry skin cannot be helped by feeding sardines.
>
> I guess my thought on this was to add omega threes by using food
> versus adding "capsules." I hate to supplement my diet with anything
> except food. Is this incorrect thinking?

**** Let me rephrase that. Feeding fish high in Omega 3s can help the
diet. But, factory fed or finished meats are very high in O6s and low
in O3s, so supps of Salmon or Fish Body Oil are a common
recommendation. Some peeps buy the bulk kind with a pump and just
squirt it on the dogs food. Most have reported that they seem to love
it. If you feed a whole lot of O3 fish, and/or grass fed proteins,
never mind. ****
<snip>

> He DOES have very, very sensitive skin. I started him on a pinch
> (after severely bruising and scraping my hands first) and he welts up
> after use. I don't correct him, just keep a shorter leash and allow
> the pinch to remind him not to pull. So, I know it wasn't me being
> abusive, just figured he was allergic to it.
<snip>
****
Really OT for this list, but you don't need a pinch or prong collar to
control your dog. A great way to have control and to help teach him to
walk on a loose leash is to use a front clip Easy Walk harness or
similar one.

http://www.premier.com/pages.cfm?id=74
For hard pullers, to get even more control, I use a martingale collar
in conjunction with the Easy Walk harness. I just clip the leash to both.
http://www.collargirl.com/how_martingale_work.htm
Properly adjusted, they keep the dog from slipping it, but don't choke
the dog. When the dog is not pulling, the collar is loose. ****

> As far as how Khan is doing, are you kidding? :O)
<snip>
He is sleeping
> more, but I'm sure the tramadol is helping him sleep, as well as the
> trauma. Oh, he's also on "carprophen" which is one of the NSAIDS(you
> did post the link to that, thanks.)
> Thank you so much for the info, Giselle!! And for caring!
> Thanks again,
> Anna (and poor, gimpy Khan, who doesn't seem to realize that he's
> hurt.)

**** YQW. Just a reminder, I'm sure you know this - the meds that
relieve the pain will also let him overdo activity, if you aren't
proactive and keep him on leash and 'on restriction'. ; )****
TC
Giselle

Messages in this topic (4)
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2a. Re: dogs chewing RMBs
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Sun Sep 9, 2007 6:59 pm ((PDT))

What's left when he's done chewing the meat away is
> naked bones and in my mind one big choking hazard,

Hi Jody,
I don't think that the bone that is hid under the meat that your dog
is eating is a choking hazard with or without the meat that originally
covered it, and i wouldn't hesitate to let my dogs eat said bone . I
would just leave him alone and give him time to decide what he wants
to do with the bone. I don't think i would feed turkey necks with or
without meat if they weren't attached to the turkey. If your dog will
eat chicken bones, since chicken is about 25% bone, you can feed him
chicken or rabbit and then go boneless the next couple of meals. KathyM

Messages in this topic (4)
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3a. hi
Posted by: "Ramona Lione" monami27@comcast.net monami24257
Date: Sun Sep 9, 2007 7:00 pm ((PDT))

Hi,

I just signed on to this group and am looking forward to learning a lot! I have 2 cardigan welsh corgis - 2 and 3 yrs old.

To start moving toward a more natural diet, I've started cutting back their kibble, and over the past few weeks have added to their
diets commercially prepared frozen raw pre-packaged mix because I don't know enough yet to 'wing it'. I also am giving them, at
various times, cottage cheese, hamburger, canned salmon, eggs, and chicken necks, which the older dog loves. She was fed a raw diet
by her previous owner (her breeder) and she is thrilled with the idea that she is getting some 'real' food for a change. The younger
one hasn't ever had raw other than a few large recreational bones and the other people food I just listed. I've given her chicken
necks 3 or 4 times and she has no clue what to do with the it other than lick it and carry it around if the other one goes for it.
I've tried holding one end for her so she gets the idea to chew on it, but mostly she just walks away. Will she ever get the idea
that chicken necks, wings etc are real food? Should I try something else? If so, what?

What else can I start introducing into their diets as far as RMBs that would be appropriate for their size? They're between 35 and
40 pounds.

What books would you recommend? There are so many of them out there and they seem to say some pretty conflicting things (yes add
supplements, no never add supplements, etc), so I'm not very confident about really going for this just yet, until I am better
informed.

Thanks,

Ramona

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (7)
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3b. Re: hi
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sun Sep 9, 2007 7:51 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Ramona!
Welcome to the raw side! ^_^
Don't think RMBs - they make me think of bare naked bones and vomit.
Think meat, with a little bone.
My recommendations:

1. You want to start with 2-3% of your dog's ESTIMATED IDEAL ADULT
weight. Tweak with more meat if your dog gets a bit skinny, a bit less
if your dog gets 'fluffy' over the space of a few weeks. You might
start out by weighing your dog, and weighing her meals; but most peeps
don't continue once they get more comfortable and casual about feeding
raw. Tiny, toy, pregnant, puppies or very active dogs might need as
much as 4-5% or more - very large, giant, overweight or couch potato
dogs might need less than 2% to maintain.

2. Ditch the kibble or canned â" thereâ™s been plenty of discussion on
this list about why processed foods and raw don't mix; just let it
suffice that your dog can reap the benefits of raw faster and more
completely if you donate the kibble to your local shelter asap. A
species appropriate raw whole prey model diet doesn't include kibble.
Or veggies, grains or tons of supps. Or, for the most part, ground
meats. No need for w/rec/k bones either. And, your dog may be less
motivated to make the change if he can smell that kibble!

3. Feed at least 2 meals a day to start with. (three meals for a pup
under 6 months old or for tiny dogs) Feeding once a day (or even less
often) can be a great feeding plan for a dog, but not at first; too
much new food at a meal can cause digestive upset. Feed as large a
portion as you can for the size of the meal. No little pieces or cut
up, â˜bite sizedâ™ chucks. Dogs need to tear into their food and shear
hunks off to swallow and crunch bone for physical, mental and dental
health. They donâ™t chew or eat the way we do, their digestion begins
in their stomachs, not in their mouths. So swallowing big hunks of
meat and bone is fine. If it fits, its OK. If it isnâ™t happy in the
stomach, the dog will hork it up, and re eat it, so it will go down
and stay down the 2nd or 3rd time. All good, thatâ™s the way dogs are.

4. Feed a little less at each meal at first than you think you should.
Too much new food over the course of a day or two can cause digestive
upset, too.

5. Stay with one new protein for at least a week, maybe two. You want
the dog to be showing you he is well adjusted to the new protein
before adding in new stuff. Take it slow; add only one new protein
every week or two.

6. You can switch to a new protein by just serving it at the next
meal, and all the meals after that for a week or so, or you can add a
bite or two of the new protein in with the 'old' protein, gradually
adding more new and less 'old' over several days, until you are
feeding all new and no 'old'. Whatever works for your own dog.

7. Boneless meals tend to produce loose, even runny poops. A judicious
amount of bone in a newbie dog's meal will tend to firm things up.
There will be less poop overall; raw is much more digestible and less
goes to waste. Poops will be less frequent also, for the same reason.
Bone adds bulk, so sloppy poops can be firmed up by some (don't go
overboard!) bone at each meal at first. Too much bone and your dog
can get âœ fossilâ poops that are dry, whitish and crumbly.

8. Chicken is recommended as the first protein to be introduced for
several reasons: its cheap, easy to obtain, easy to cut into different
dog meal sized portions, you can trim visible fat and skin if you need
to tweak, most dogs will eat it and its pretty bland. Read the labels
on the chicken before you buy; don't get any that say its enhanced
with flavoring/seasonings or salt injected. Some dogs get itchy or
vomit or get true diarrhea from enhancements. Whole chickens are the
best to start with, ime. Cut into portion sizes with kitchen shears,
as needed.

9. Some newbie dogs vomit or poop bone bits. There is an adjustment
period, so you want some bone in most meals at first, but too much
bone may not be digested and the dog will just hork it up or poop it
out. NPs, its just the dog's way of saying "Too much right now, no
thanks."

10. Some dogs will get the Bile Vomits or Bone Bile Vomits (BV or BBV)
when new to raw simply because their schedules or routines of eating
have been changed. When a dog adjusts to raw, his gastric 'juices'
become much more acid, to better digest the raw meat and bone. If he's
expecting a meal at a certain time, the 'juices start flowing' in
anticipation of getting a meal. When the meal doesn't happen, the dog
often will hork up the yellowish, foamyish bile, with or without
bones. Sometimes they hork up BBV because raw digests faster than
kibble, the tummy is empty, so it must be time to eat. NP for the dog,
he's gotten rid of the irritation. He may react as if he feels bad,
just because you are upset that he did it on your new comforter, or on
the white carpet.

11. A lot of dogs don't drink as much water or as frequently when
switched to all raw, all the time. Raw has a pretty high water content
and most dogs are forced by dry as dust kibble to over drink water to
compensate in order for their bodies to process it. If only fed raw,
you don't need to coax your dog to drink more water or even broth,
just offer plenty of fresh water, he'll drink when he needs it.

12. True diarrhea is not just loose, runny or sloppy poops. It is
frequent, liquid or watery explosions of poo that a dog cannot 'hold
back'. True diarrhea, imo, is caused by disease, parasites or
inappropriate food or non food items. The occasional loose poops, even
over a few days, from feeding a few too many boneless meals or
introing a new protein or feeding too much organ at one whack, is not
diarrhea.

13. The general rule of thumb for feeding raw is: 80% meat (muscle,
fat, skin, connective tissue) 10% EDIBLE bone (not all bone that is
served must be consumed) and 10% organs (5% of this is liver, the rest
is as much variety as you can find and afford) This is not an
immutable 'daily requirement'. Balance Over Time, over weeks and
months is one of the raw feeding mottos. ; ) If you feed true whole
prey, that is; entire animals at a time, then the meat to bone to
organ ratios are 'perfect' for that creature. Whatever parts your dog
can eat of is right for him. In the wild, wolves will eat off a large
animal carcass for days, and each wolf gets different parts. If times
are hard, they will consume the entire critter, including skin, fur,
less 'choice' parts and will even crack the hard long bones to get to
the marrow. If pickin's are plentiful, they will eat the easiest and
choice parts, and then move on. Because of variances in size, age,
personality, life experiences and dental ability, a particular dog
will be able to consume, or not: all or part or some or a little bone
from any particular animal. If you feed 'Frankenprey', that is; a
variety of protein, body parts and organs from different animals, to
simulate the whole prey experience for your dogs, you are challenged
to find enough variety in all these aspects for optimal health.

14. Organs - don't try to add a lot of organs or organ variety at
first. An easy way to satisfy the human need to "Do it all, right
now!", is to toss the gizzards and heart you get with your whole
chickens in with a bonier meal, a little piece at a meal. Heart and
gizzards are organs, but should be fed as meatymeat. The liver can be
cut up into teensy bits, and fed a tiny bit at a time with a meal.
This will allow you to feed organs, but shouldn't cause runny stools.
If it does, cut it out and freeze those parts for later down the line.
My list of organs, so I don't forget to look for variety; liver, heart
(fed as meat), cheek meat, head meat, salivary glands, feet, lips,
oxtail, spleen, tongue (usually fed as meat), weasand meat
(esophagus), tripe, stomach, sweetbread (thymus & pancreas), ears,
kidneys, brain, tripe, poultry giblets - heart, liver, gizzard and
snouts. Heads, with all the â˜stuffâ™, including eyes.
"offal" - viscera and trimmings of a butchered animal often considered
inedible by
humans.

15. SEBP - Slippery Elm Bark Powder. This is a good innocuous herb
that soothes the stomach and digestive system. If you feel you need to
intervene when your dog has loose poops or constipation, this is the
way to go. SEBP is "used to treat diarrhea, constipation, enteritis,
colitis & irritations of the stomach. Used to soothe, protect &
lubricate mucous membranes. Also, used to relieve the discomforts of
kennel cough & other types of bronchitis."
http://fiascofarm.com/herbs/supplements.htm
I use 1 tsp of SEBP to one ounce of ground or chopped chicken. Mix
together and shape enough meatballs for several days doses, and freeze
them. They thaw quickly. For small dogs, divide in 1/2 ounce
meatballs, for large to giant dogs, 1 ounce meatballs. Feed 1 with
each meal. Or, fast for a day, (not for pups, fast for just a meal or
two) offer plenty of water. Feed SEBP meatballs 3-4 times throughout
the day. Feed smaller, more frequent meals for several days after,
gradually increasing the meals and decreasing the SEBP meatballs. You
will often see an increase in mucousy poops with SEBP, this is part of
the way it soothes the digestive system, and the dog's body will do
the same sometimes even without SEBP.

16. You can feed pretty much any animal or animal part that your dog
will eat and that won't break the bank. : ) Common grocery store
variety suffices for some; chicken, turkey, pork, beef, lamb, fish,
rabbit. Others can obtain at a reasonable price and feed; goat,
venison, emu, ostrich, bison, beefalo, elk, mutton, mice, rats, guinea
hen, quail, bear (bear? ;) ), the list goes on and on.

17. If you must supplement, you can add Salmon or Fish Body oil,
either in caps or liquid. Make sure it doesn't have any plant based
oils, like soy, in there. You probably don't need much. Follow the
recommendations that come with the product you buy:
http://timberwolforganics.com/pet-omega-oils

http://www.icelandpure.com/salmon_oil.htm

http://www.grizzlypetproducts.com/salmon_oil/salmon_oil.html

In the case of true disease, you may need certain supps, but this is
the exception to the rule, most dogs donâ™t.

18. Lis' List; ways to creatively source cheaper variety in protein,
parts and organs. FreeCycle and craigslist are great ways to find a
free or cheap freezer to hold all the scores you'll be making!

âœ Where do you look for meat suppliers?

Permission to repost from Lis

A) Look up meat and poultry packers, processors, and distributors in
the yellow pages. You may be able to get great prices from them if
you order in bulk, and/or they may have a discount outlet that is
open to the public.
B) I get many of my best deals in Asian/Oriental markets. I've also
heard that Hispanic and Caribbean markets have great variety and
prices too.
C) You may be able to join a barter group.
D) Google breeders (i.e. rabbit, goat, lamb, etc.) who are in your
geographic area. They may have culls they want to get rid of, or
lower prices overall.
E) Look up bulk suppliers and frozen bulk foods in your yellow pages.
F) If you have a Chinatown nearby, definitely make a visit.
G) Let your friends, relatives, and neighbors know you want any
freezer burn or old meat when they clean out their freezers, and tell
them to pass the word along.
H)If you belong to a church or social group, tell those members to
mention it to their friends and relatives as well.
I) See if there are any co-ops or meat buying groups near you. Check
on Yahoo, or Google to see.
J) Try craigslist - it's amazing what you can get for free or cheap.
K) And I get meat and fish all the time (for free) through
FreeCycle. Join multiple lists if there are a few close by.
L) Some Wal-marts and some Costcos and some Samâ™s Clubs have good
deals, but you may want to make sure it's not seasoned meat.
M) Definitely watch the flyers, and you can usually see the rest
of the flyers online (the ones that don't get delivered to your house,
but are only a short drive away).
N) *** Hands down, the bulk of my best deals have been marked down
meat at regular grocery stores. They reduce it the day before it is
going to expire, and I go as early as I can to get it before it is
gone.
O) Tell friends and relatives who hunt and fish that you want first
dibs on any body parts they don't. You can probably get at least the
organs and maybe the head. Also ask them to put you in touch with
their other friends who hunt and fish.
P) A great tip I learned here a while back â" some restaurants
throw out things they don't use, like the organs that come inside
whole poultry, or raw meat that falls on the floor. See if they'll
save them for you. Find somebody who knows somebody who works there.
Q) Farmer's markets are great, but pick and choose carefully for the
best bargains. And sometimes at the end of the day some vendors will
reduce their prices, â˜cause they don't want to take it back with them.
R) Some people contact taxidermists, who have no use for the meat.
S) Find people on this list from your vicinity, and ask them where
they get their meat deals. Join other raw feeding lists (there are
many), and ask if there are other raw feeders in your area.
T) Tell your butcher you want the meat that they would normally
throw out, that is almost out of date, that people ordered and didn't
pick up, stuff that was dropped on the floor, their freezer
cleanouts, and parts that don't sell (like trachea, lungs, spleen,
etc.). Some butchers will save their trim for you (once they get to
know you). Build a relationship with them first.
U) Yes, roadkill works too (where it is legal). In some places you
can get your name on the list and get called when they have large
roadkill. (like deer)
V) You can raise your own meat/poultry if you have the room.
W) Post a message in Carnivore Feed-Supplier or CFS-Canada if you are
in North America:
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/CarnivoreFeed-Supplier/
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/CFS-Canada/
X) Speak to local farmers.
Y) Also, look for heart, tongue, and gizzards, which count as meat (as
opposed to organ) in the world of raw feeding, but are often cheaper
than other muscle meats.
Z) Find somebody who knows somebody who works at the grocery store.
They can introduce you to the meat guy, who may become more willing
to save stuff for you or reduce items about to expire, once they know
you.
AA) Check the internet. Some suppliers have affordable prices, even
after shipping costs are calculated.

Lisâ

19. Donâ™t hover! Don't hand feed! It takes some dogs a couple of days
to realize that what youâ™re giving them is real food, and theyâ™re
allowed to eat it. This process will take less time if youâ™re not
standing over them in an excess of anxiety. Some dogs react to that
kind of anxiety by acting as if they donâ™t want the food, when in
reality, they are just confused by your mixed signals. Remember,
âœpeople foodâ has always been off limits to him prior to this! Take
the food to his feeding place, put it on an old towel or rug and have
a seat. Donâ™t stare, but do hang out, reading a magazine until heâ™s
done and you can let him outside and fold up his towel.

It really isn't that hard to raw feed your dog. There's a learning
curve, definitely. But, that's what this list is here for.
Read as many daily posts as you can, read the files on the website,
and follow those links! Search in the archives for past posts with
keywords; new to raw, newbie, help, how do I start or other words that
reflect your specific search.

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/RawChat/?yguid=200913350
TC, and let us know how you and your dog progress!
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> I just signed on to this group and am looking forward to learning a
lot! I have 2 Cardigan Welsh corgis - 2 and 3 yrs old.
<snip>
> What else can I start introducing into their diets as far as RMBs
that would be appropriate for their size? They're between 35 and
> 40 pounds.
<snip>
> Thanks,
>
> Ramona

Messages in this topic (7)
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4a. Re: Hi, new here, need help with raw feeding my siberian huskies
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sun Sep 9, 2007 7:05 pm ((PDT))

Hi, uh, Hi!
This is a long one, too ; )
Bear with me.
My recommendations:

4. Feed a little less at each meal at first than you think you should.
Too much new food over the course of a day or two can cause digestive
upset, too.

http://www.icelandpure.com/salmon_oil.htm

http://www.grizzlypetproducts.com/salmon_oil/salmon_oil.html

In the case of true disease, you may need certain supps, but this is
the exception to the rule, most dogs donâ™t.

18. Lis' List; ways to creatively source cheaper variety in protein,
parts and organs. FreeCycle and craigslist are great ways to find a
free or cheap freezer to hold all the scores you'll be making!

âœ Where do you look for meat suppliers?

Permission to repost from Lis

Lisâ

19. Donâ™t hover! It takes some dogs a couple of days to realize that
what youâ™re giving them is real food, and theyâ™re allowed to eat it.
This process will take less time if youâ™re not standing over them in
an excess of anxiety. Some dogs react to that kind of anxiety by
acting as if they donâ™t want the food, when in reality, they are just
confused by your mixed signals. Remember, âœpeople foodâ has always
been off limits to him prior to this! Take the food to his feeding
place, put it on an old towel or rug and have a seat. Donâ™t stare, but
do hang out, reading a magazine until heâ™s done and you can let him
outside and fold up his towel.

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/RawChat/?yguid=200913350
TC, and let us know how you and your dog progress!
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

<snip>
> 3) My boy is an almost fully grown adult and is of a good weight (46lbs)
>
> How much should he be eating daily? I can't find the info on any site
> anywhere
<snip>
But altogether what is the
> approximate amount he needs? He is a moderately active dog.
>
> 4) Oh and also does it matter if occasionally my young bitch runs off
> with one or two poultry necks / bit of liver?

Messages in this topic (7)
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4b. Re: Hi, new here, need help with raw feeding my siberian huskies
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sun Sep 9, 2007 7:11 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "mrskheath" <mrskheath@...> wrote:
>
> Can the chicken bones hurt him? I just have this image of my
> mind of
> wild dogs eating bigger prey with tougher bones.

It's possible to get hurt doing most anything. It is highly
unlikely that chicken bones will harm your dog. I feed some chicken
every day and have for almost 5 years. Many have fed much longer
than that. None of my dogs has had the first problem with a chicken
bone. Raw chicken bones are relatively soft and pliable.

> Should I remove any
> particular bones which pose a threat to him?

> Should I watch him
> carefully first time with a chicken to make sure he doesnt choke?

You should always keep an eye on your dog while he eats but "watch
him carefully" is overdoing it. He will be ok. :)

> I can get chickens and turkey necks locally but not really rabbit
> (hard to come by fresh where i live), joints of beef on the
> bone that
> dont cost the world - in the south of uk it can be costly?

I personally don't feed my dogs beef bone. It tends to be very
dense and hard on the teeth. I prefer poultry and pork bone mostly
but other bones as I get the chance.

> Any tips
> for obtaining the food at cheaper cost?

Sorry, but I don't have a clue about buying anything in the UK. In
the US, I have a lot of good luck shopping in small independently
owned grocery stores. They seem very eager to special order things
I need for my dogs.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (7)
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5a. New to raw feeding and technology!
Posted by: "jetmaxcar" jetmaxcar@yahoo.com.au jetmaxcar
Date: Sun Sep 9, 2007 7:39 pm ((PDT))

MODERATORS NOTE:SIGN YOUR MAILS!!!!!

Just joined today, have 2 puppies (11mth old gold ret x cocker span and
9mth old border collie x kelpie). What should I start with and how
much? They both weigh about 20kgs and have been eating a mixture of
home cooked meat/rice/veges and dry food with some bones for treats.
Want to get started on converting to raw asap. I'm in Aust. if that
helps.

Messages in this topic (2)
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5b. Re: New to raw feeding and technology!
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sun Sep 9, 2007 7:57 pm ((PDT))

Hi, uh, Hi!
Welcome to the raw side!
My recommendations:

4. Feed a little less at each meal at first than you think you should.
Too much new food over the course of a day or two can cause digestive
upset, too.

http://www.icelandpure.com/salmon_oil.htm

http://www.grizzlypetproducts.com/salmon_oil/salmon_oil.html

In the case of true disease, you may need certain supps, but this is
the exception to the rule, most dogs donâ™t.

18. Lis' List; ways to creatively source cheaper variety in protein,
parts and organs. FreeCycle and craigslist are great ways to find a
free or cheap freezer to hold all the scores you'll be making!

âœ Where do you look for meat suppliers?

Permission to repost from Lis

Lisâ

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/RawChat/?yguid=200913350
TC, and let us know how you and your dog progress!
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> Just joined today, have 2 puppies (11mth old gold ret x cocker span and
> 9mth old border collie x kelpie). <snip>
> Want to get started on converting to raw asap. I'm in Aust. if that
> helps.
>

Messages in this topic (2)
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6a. {RawFeeding & Raw Chat}Sharing meat between dogs
Posted by: "Brandi Bryant" bbryant573@gmail.com bbryant573
Date: Sun Sep 9, 2007 8:13 pm ((PDT))

After going to Walmart yesterday and finding and bought 2 bone in pork
shoulder for $1.08/lb and 1 Pork Shoulder Butt Roast for $1.62/lb - I
asked earlier about sharing meat between dogs. But thank you Michael,
I will look into getting beef hearts. I know it's good for the dogs.
I know some of you can throw a hunk of meat to your dogs and they can
eat nicely together. Not real sure about mine. However I did find
out just now that my GS puppy is a very aggressive eater - i gave her
and Roxy a oh some kind of pork something with a bone in the middle
with a nice layer of something looked like maybe fat - not sure -
anyway - Roxie is very shy and timid and Roxy immediately started in
with holding it down with her front paws and pulling at the meat with
her front teeth. I'm thinking that if I put the 2 together that
Catori the younger pup would get most of it and Roxy would be left
with very little if anything at all. I'm not sure about my males -
Max is more dominant over Duke inless they get into a fight and then
Duke can usually turn the table and put Max on the floor...so I'm
thinking that instead of trying to boys together maybe put Roxie and
Max together - they're both tenative eaters and put Duke and Catorie
together when it comes time to bring out the big pork. That would put
a pup with each adult male. Any suggestions? Feed back?

Thanks in advanced
Brandi
Bartlesville, Ok
www.obediencetrainingclubofbartlesville.com

Messages in this topic (2)
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6b. Re: {RawFeeding & Raw Chat}Sharing meat between dogs
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Sun Sep 9, 2007 9:45 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Brandi Bryant" <bbryant573@...> wrote:
> I know some of you can throw a hunk of meat to your dogs and they can
> eat nicely together.

Hi Brandy,
This in only an imo, but even though i throw a huge hunk of meat to my
dogs, since i have 3 dogs, i always feed 3 hunks of meat. I wouldn't
expect my dogs to have to share their food or eat quietly or politely
or have to wait their turn. When i feed whatever cut of pork roast it
is that has one big bone hid in it that looks kinda like the letter L,
i give each dog their own roast. If you are just starting raw
feeding, i would cut each roast into serving size pieces-based on the
weight you want to feed- and give each dog their own meal from their
own roast. Make one of the meals the bone with some meat still
attached. As time goes on, you can toss each dog a roast and pick it
up when you think they ate enough and put them back in the fridge for
the next day. Eventually, you can let them eat the whole thing and
skip a couple a days before you fed again. I'm not saying its wrong
to make the dogs share, just that i wouldn't do it and that it isn't
necessary to make dogs share food to feed your dog big meals. KathyM

Messages in this topic (2)
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7a. Re: How Many Times A Day To Feed
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Sep 9, 2007 8:33 pm ((PDT))

"Roxane" <roxanegraham@...> wrote:
>
> It looks like a lot of people feed raw once a day and I was wondering
> why they do so.
*****
I feed once a day or less for no other reason than to be able to feed
Big Food. I feed Big Food to provide not only nutrition but also
exercise, dental hygiene, mental hygiene and amusement. For my
retrievers, a 3/4lb meal is simply not an interactive meal. A meal
that's 1-1/2lb has more to offer, but really, that's half a chicken or
a whole game hen and neither provides more than five minutes of eating.

But when I feed three pounds of meal every other day, THEN my dogs get
a workout of some proportion. That's why I generally feed less often
than once a day.

When I do not have Big Food to offer, I don't skip days and my dogs eat
once a day. I am not likely, however, to feed two meals a day to
healthy adult dogs. To sick dogs, to senior dogs, to pups, to cats--
yes I will feed twice a day.

I do like to feed twice a day, is there some reason I
> should not.
*****
If your dogs are healthy I see no reason no to feed once a day.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (8)
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7b. Re: How Many Times A Day To Feed
Posted by: "temy1102" ahn.tammy@gmail.com temy1102
Date: Sun Sep 9, 2007 9:44 pm ((PDT))

I feed my medium-sized dog once a day and sometimes every other day
based on my own personal convenience and the size of whatever she ate
or is going to eat. She's still young and has an ironclad
digestivesystem. My older smaller dog does fine on once a day (used
to be 2x a day on kibble), but will have diarrhea if he skips a meal.
Also, he'll be very upset about it and let me know very loudly.

Alllll up to you! I like feeding large pieces because... I'm lazy.
But I also enjoy the dental benefits. Or on a day like today, when I
haven't gotten a chance to romp with the dogs, I'll throw my girl a
huge complicated meal and let her work on that till she's tired. Handy.

-Tammy & Grover & Tod

Messages in this topic (8)
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8a. ADMIIN/Re: Aggression!!!
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Sep 9, 2007 9:09 pm ((PDT))

This is a topic that deserves its own website; at the very least move
the discussion to RawChat. It is inappropriate for the Rawfeeding list.
Thanks you.
Chris O
Moderation Team

Messages in this topic (9)
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9a. Different coloured liver and kidneys (for eating, not the dogs orga
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Sep 9, 2007 9:16 pm ((PDT))

Judith Kellett <llan@...> wrote:
> I don't know the US situation, but for a very long time dog owners
> in Australia were vigorously discouraged from feeding sheep offal to
> dogs, as it perpetuated the existence of a tapeworm that was very
> dangerous to humans (google "Hydatid cysts").
*****
This is not an issue in the US and I believe it's no longer an issue of
serious concern in Australia, yes?
Chris O

Messages in this topic (2)
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10a. Re: amalyse(sp?)-irritated pancreas
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Sep 9, 2007 9:34 pm ((PDT))

"rokedemyah" <rokedemyah@...> wrote:
>
> Ok al tha tmakes sense . I told ya, Im a rank newbie.LOL
> Now all I have to do is find a raw feeder vet and once we get set up
> for it i'm good to go.
*****
The clinic I "use" now (not that I am there often) is a typical
allopathic purveyor of SD, vaccines and medications. It is not an
alternative care facility, the vets are traditionally educated and
the places runs just like any other allopathic vet I've visited.

First time I went there I wound up sitting on the floor of an exam
room, talking raw diet for at least an hour to the head of the clinic
and another vet. First time I had to take a dog in for a food-
related issue (upset tummy) the vet said right off it wasn't
pancreatitis and sent us home with a bottle of extra strength
Maalox. When my senior golden was dying of bowel cancer and had a
terrific pancreatitis attack, the vet told me feed him bland food--no
pork.

These vets are allopathic in training but clearly their minds haven't
been nailed shut. You do not necessarily want a pro-raw vet. What
you want is a vet who is open to new ideas, one who respects your
choices and your ability to make wise decisions. A pro-raw vet can
still be a royal inconvenience if all the other issues in dogdom
remain battles.

Chris O

Messages in this topic (12)
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11a. Re: Gurgling tummies and fairly new to raw
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Sep 9, 2007 9:38 pm ((PDT))

"Giselle" <megan.giselle@...> wrote:
> IMO, loud tummy gurgling is the opposite of what I'm worried about
> with bloat. No bowel sounds mean digestion has effectively stopped.
> Farting and belching I also consider good. : )
*****
Boy howdy!
When one of my dogs is moping around after a big meal I am truly
relieved when the burgling and gurgling and farting and belching kick
in. It's when there's nothing but dead air that I get nervous.

I had a Lab that bloated twice before she was a year old, neither time
from food. Never a gurgle in her, no belches, no farts. However, both
events were resolved naturally when finally she--you guessed it--
bleched.

I am ALL for noisy digestions.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (5)
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12a. Trichinella concerns?
Posted by: "basilbourque" wildbasil@pobox.com basilbourque
Date: Sun Sep 9, 2007 9:47 pm ((PDT))

I've read about people feeding pork raw. I've learned enough to get over (most) of my fear of
bug/germs/parasites to feed my dog raw.

But isn't Trichinella a serious risk in feeding pork raw?

Wikipedia.org mentions deep freezing for many days to kill larval worms. But you can't
believe everything you read there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trichinosis

--Basil

Messages in this topic (2)
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12b. Re: Trichinella concerns?
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sun Sep 9, 2007 10:33 pm ((PDT))

Not if you are feeding commercial pork purchased in the US, Canada, a couple
of other countries. There has not been a case of
trichinosis attributed to pork in over 15 years.

Wild boar would require freezing.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "basilbourque" <wildbasil@pobox.com>

I've read about people feeding pork raw. I've learned enough to get over
(most) of my fear of
bug/germs/parasites to feed my dog raw.

But isn't Trichinella a serious risk in feeding pork raw?

Messages in this topic (2)
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13a. Re: Stinky Kitchen
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Sun Sep 9, 2007 10:03 pm ((PDT))

On Sep 9, 2007, at 6:05 PM, Kaitlin Fraser wrote:
> Also if by any change you are throwing bones into the garbage
> cause the dog
> didn't eat them... bingo... that's a source of stink. I give beef
> bones(
> which trust me Malo can eat a beef bone... just not all of it
> always)... and
> if will toss out the left overs ... but I freeze it then toss it...
> and make
> sure I get rid of the bag ASAP.
>

Anything Tomo doesn't eat goes in the soup pot:) Well, except for the
infamous stinky beef; one huge foreleg of that went to the airport,
out in the middle of a field, where we walked by many times over two
years and watched the decomposition/scavenging process. I think there
are still a couple of bones...

ginny and Tomo, "Oh, boy, Mom's making soup!"

All stunts performed without a net!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
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Feed Pets Raw Food

Monday, September 10, 2007

[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12022

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