Feed Pets Raw Food: Jul 12, 2007

Thursday, July 12, 2007

[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11799

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: adding new meats to diet
From: Andrea
1b. Re: adding new meats to diet
From: Carol Santangelo
1c. Re: adding new meats to diet
From: carnesbill

2a. Re: And ONE more???
From: Brenda Grundt

3a. Charkee had a tooth pulled today..........need advice........
From: tottime47
3b. Re: Charkee had a tooth pulled today..........need advice........
From: costrowski75

4a. Re: Cheap meat sources, and an egg question
From: carnesbill

5a. Re: Really worried that my dog is losing weight
From: Shannon Parker

6a. Re: WHat are sme other organ options besides liver?
From: tottime47
6b. Re: WHat are sme other organ options besides liver?
From: Maria
6c. Re: WHat are sme other organ options besides liver?
From: Alison Maffett
6d. Re: WHat are sme other organ options besides liver?
From: geraldinebutterfield

7a. Cow heads?
From: Maria
7b. Re: Cow heads?
From: merril Woolf

8a. Re: feeding wild pork
From: carnesbill
8b. Re: feeding wild pork
From: Sandee Lee

9a. Re: Most valuable/least valuable meat?
From: carnesbill
9b. Re: Most valuable/least valuable meat?
From: costrowski75

10a. Freezer
From: Alison Maffett

11a. Re: After vomiting,started shaking head frequently..what is wrong wi
From: Bearhair

12a. Re: first time to Asian market now with questions
From: woofwoofgrrl
12b. Re: first time to Asian market now with questions
From: costrowski75

13a. Re: Can't get a solid poop! (was New puppy won't eat)
From: costrowski75

14a. Re: New puppy won't eat
From: pet.wellness

15a. Pork Neck Bones
From: cas22ccrn

Messages
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1a. Re: adding new meats to diet
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 7:04 pm ((PDT))

Katie, the easiest way to transition is to add new meats to an already acceptable meat. The
loose stools probably don't bother the dogs, but if it bothers you, it's best to take it slow.

As for lamb shanks, my boys eat every bit of a lamb. The bones are quite edible for even
medium sized dogs. The only time I avoid lamb bones is if they have been cut into sharp
little chop sized pieces.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Katie" <kcrockett@...> wrote:

> my question - I have mostly been feeding cheicken. I gave beef one night, only to find
> lotd of runny pooped dogs the next day, so i backed up to chicken again.
> after several weeks, i'm wanting to add other meats. is it better to give a meal of
> another meat, or to offer a small amount of another meat WITH the chicken, so it's
> more gradula?

Messages in this topic (5)
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1b. Re: adding new meats to diet
Posted by: "Carol Santangelo" carol.santangelo@gmail.com santangelo_carol
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 7:39 pm ((PDT))

So I can feed lamb shanks the way they sell it in the grocery store? Even
though it has been cut? As long as it's not lamb chops with the little
pieces of bone? I have a Bullmastiff puppy (almost 7 months old) who would
love to get his teeth into something like that.

Carol (Bruno and Zoe's mom)

As for lamb shanks, my boys eat every bit of a lamb. The bones are quite
> edible for even
> medium sized dogs. The only time I avoid lamb bones is if they have been
> cut into sharp
> little chop sized pieces.
>
> Andrea
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (5)
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1c. Re: adding new meats to diet
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 7:41 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Katie" <kcrockett@...> wrote:
>
> after several weeks, i'm wanting to add other meats. is it
> better to give a meal of another
> meat, or to offer a small amount of another meat WITH the
> chicken, so it's more gradula?

My method would be to feed turkey next and pork a week or so after
that. Both of those are not as "rich" as beef and a little easier on
the digestive system. The first time you feed beef, make it a little
smaller than normal meal.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (5)
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2a. Re: And ONE more???
Posted by: "Brenda Grundt" grundt@xplornet.com scorch_st2001
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 7:13 pm ((PDT))

You can always feed in the bathtub and then rinse it out when done.
Brenda Grundt
Www.wawa-news.com

On 7/11/07 9:39 PM, "carnesbill" <carnesw@bellsouth.net> wrote:

>
>
>
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com <mailto:rawfeeding%40yahoogroups.com> , Lyse
> Garant <lyse_garant@...> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > Isn't she getting raw chicken all over herself?
>
> You are catching on fast. :) No your daughter won't be injured by
> chicken slobber. :) I have never known a child or adult get sick from
> a raw fed dog. Many feeders here have children and my grandchildren
> come over here so I assume it is no problem.
>
>> > If I put the piece on the floor, kitchen has no door,
>> > he'd immediately take it into the living room, so I'm going to
>> > feed him in his pen, or shut him up in the bathroom.
>
> You have a some choices here. Feeding in crate or bathroom or laundry
> room is each a viable choice. Training is another. If you stay right
> with the dog and the instant he leaves the kitchen you take the food
> away from him and put it back in the kitchen, very quickly he will
> learn where he is to eat. If you want him to eat on a table cloth,
> the instant he steps off the table cloth with the food, put him back
> on it. They learn very quickly.
>
> Bill Carnes
> http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm
>
> Feeding Raw since October 2002
>
> "Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
> Dr. Tom Lonsdale
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (14)
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3a. Charkee had a tooth pulled today..........need advice........
Posted by: "tottime47" tottime@aol.com tottime47
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 7:40 pm ((PDT))

Ok had to have a tooth pulled today, molar in the back...

Noticed for the last month he wouldn't chew bone on
the right side and suspected something was going on.

Sure enough bad tooth, the vet said there was also infection.

Had the tooth pulled around 10 am &
picked him up from the vets about 2 pm and at 3 he went outside and
did his normal stool & pee..........

After he came in started low whinning, almost constant.....at first I
couldn't figure out if it was pain or hunger as he doesn't normally
whine.

Finally figures out it was because he wanted to eat but the vet said
only ice chips today as he didn't want him to start vomiting.

About 7:30 I couldn't take it anymore and gave him about 3/4 oz of
finely ground chicken / with some slippery elm sprinkled on it, hey,
I had to do something.....

He seemed half-way satisfied but did a little more whinning and I
finally said no more so he went to sleep, lol. Sleeping now.....

If he keeps this down would it be ok to give him more later tonight
or in the morning?
I know if he doesn't eat more tonight he's going to wake up chewing
on my leg till fed........
Have I already done something wrong?

The vet said not to feed till tomorrow afternoon...

Thanks for any advice you gals and guys, I really appreciate it...

I think I'm in more shock than he is, lol

Carol & Charkee the pig 'er' peke

Messages in this topic (2)
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3b. Re: Charkee had a tooth pulled today..........need advice........
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:04 pm ((PDT))

"tottime47" <tottime@...> wrote:
>> I had to do something.....
*****
No, you didn't. But clearly it's not the end of the world.

> He seemed half-way satisfied but did a little more whinning and I
> finally said no more so he went to sleep, lol. Sleeping now.....
>
> If he keeps this down would it be ok to give him more later
tonight
> or in the morning?
*****
I don't know why the vet wants you to wait so long (I would think
breakfast should be long enough) but if he does want you to wait
that long and you don't know why, then do what he says. Your pup
will survive. You will survive. Give him a big hug, a smooch, tell
him he's real champ...and then get on with your day.

Perhaps you might call the vet in the AM to ask why the long fast.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (2)
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4a. Re: Cheap meat sources, and an egg question
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 7:40 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Nathalie Poulin
<poulin_nathalie@...> wrote:
>
> What is this Freecylce group?
> I'm extremely intrigued..

Its a yahoo group with branches in many cities and different areas
around the country. It's like a craigslist for free things. People
advertise things they want to give away and others advertise for
things they want for free. I think the only rule is that you can't
charge or pay for things you get. I have gotten old meat and
freezer burned meat several times for free. I would guess maybe 100-
150 lbs total.

According to freecycle.org there are 4083 groups with 3,700,759
members. Items exchanged are usually furniture, clothing, childrens
toys and clothes, cds, dvds, vhs movies, etc.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (16)
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5a. Re: Really worried that my dog is losing weight
Posted by: "Shannon Parker" mrbatisse@yahoo.ca mrbatisse
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 7:41 pm ((PDT))

Hi Eve,

Try searing the meat for a couple of minutes, just to get some flavour on the outside. The bone and meat won't cook, so he'll get all he needs to out of the meat and the bones won't get brittle. Some dogs just need a little flavour before they get into it.

Shannon

Eve <loulou_bean@yahoo.com> wrote:
He just walked away from the chicken and went into his
little crate and mushed his around around and
scratched at it and growled a little. He ate some, but
defintely did not consume even close to how much he
needs for his weight. He's 17 pounds. Is he telling me
he's done by walking away? He hardly ate anything.

And, he hasn't pooped in 3 days.

Can someone please help?

Thanks,
Eve

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Messages in this topic (5)
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6a. Re: WHat are sme other organ options besides liver?
Posted by: "tottime47" tottime@aol.com tottime47
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 7:41 pm ((PDT))

Hi Kae,
What kind of liver have you tried so far?

Mine hates chicken livers from wallyworld but loves beef liver frozen
from the butcher shop. He also loves rabbit liver, lol. I think he'd
eat rabbit organs exclusively if I'd feed them....

Just remember if they don't like one kind of liver try different ones
and also try serving it different ways, frozen or puree and put over
their meat..........

Carol & Charkee (the rabbit offal lover)

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "kaebruney" <kaebruney@...> wrote:
>
> Oka, my boys hat eliver.
> I mean HATE it.

> Kae
>

Messages in this topic (5)
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6b. Re: WHat are sme other organ options besides liver?
Posted by: "Maria" plava_93@yahoo.com plava_93
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 7:41 pm ((PDT))

Have you tried feeding it frozen solid?
Have you tried to puree it then mix in it with ground beef? I have to
give my dog's "liver slop cubes" because one of my dogs dosen't like
the texture of organs. I grind up equal parts meat and organ (plus
egg shells if you please) then after mixing I freeze in ice cube trys
then give it to the dogs. If this works for you you could even make
organ slop stuffed chitterling sausages.

HTH!
Maria

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "kaebruney" <kaebruney@...> wrote:
>
> Oka, my boys hat eliver.
> I mean HATE it.
> So.. what does one feed two dogs who refuse their organ meat?
> HELP!...
>
> Kae
>

Messages in this topic (5)
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6c. Re: WHat are sme other organ options besides liver?
Posted by: "Alison Maffett" sweettuth23@yahoo.com sweettuth23
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 8:01 pm ((PDT))

By giving them the option of eating liver or meat your making a mistake. What you need to do is offer the liver then if they don't eat it they don't get dinner that night or any treats until the next night and you keep offering that liver until they eat it. Most dogs don't like liver I have a dog that still hates it tonight I had to cover it with BBQ sauce and pieces of lunch meat to get her to eat it, she has gone 2-3 nights without because she would not eat her liver but eventually they will eat it. Even if you get another type of organ meat they might not eat that either, so your best bet is not feeding them until they eat their organ meat. Alison

----- Original Message ----
From: kaebruney <kaebruney@yahoo.com>

When I feed it as is, they will eat all their other food first and

leave me little liver strips on the food mats.

So.. what does one feed two dogs who refuse their organ meat?

Messages in this topic (5)
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6d. Re: WHat are sme other organ options besides liver?
Posted by: "geraldinebutterfield" gbutterflied@comcast.net geraldinebutterfield
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:10 pm ((PDT))

Question - if a dog is on a raw diet, and doing well, but does not
like liver, any kind --- even though its good for them, but they HATE
IT, should we make them eat it? This must sound stupid... but ... do
wild dogs always eat liver, do they hate it too?
thanks,
geraldine

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Alison Maffett <sweettuth23@...>
wrote:
>
> By giving them the option of eating liver or meat your making a
mistake. What you need to do is offer the liver then if they don't eat
it they don't get dinner that night or any treats until the next night
and you keep offering that liver until they eat it. Most dogs don't
like liver

Messages in this topic (5)
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7a. Cow heads?
Posted by: "Maria" plava_93@yahoo.com plava_93
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 7:42 pm ((PDT))

I'm going to be getting two cow heads during to winter and I need to
know if the sculls can be eaten or if I just need to take the noses,
cheeks, tounges, eyes and brains.

If it makes any differince my dogs treat beef ribs like wreck bones,
but thats the only beef bones I've tried.

Thanks
Maria

Messages in this topic (2)
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7b. Re: Cow heads?
Posted by: "merril Woolf" merril@kentfieldwhippets.com whippetsrus2002
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:12 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Maria" <plava_93@...> wrote:
>
> I'm going to be getting two cow heads during to winter and I need to
> know if the sculls can be eaten or if I just need to take the noses,
> cheeks, tounges, eyes and brains.
>
> If it makes any differince my dogs treat beef ribs like wreck bones,
> but thats the only beef bones I've tried.
>
> Thanks
> Maria
>

My dogs routinely get heads of all kinds including cow heads.
I don't take anything off it and let them eat it how they choose.
By time they are done, it's just a mandible and scull - kinda like the ones you see nailed to
the shed door or laying on the ground in the drought ridden outback...

As an aside, years ago during the summer I had some friends over and the guys went into
the rec room to play some pool. The rec room just happened to overlook the back yard
and while playing pool, the guys happened to look out the window into the back yard and
just about die when they saw one of my little dogs all the way in to the scull of a recent
cow we'd butchered. All that was sticking out was her butt. The guys still haven't
forgotten that day.

Merril

Messages in this topic (2)
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8a. Re: feeding wild pork
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 7:42 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "scarebetty" <scarebetty@...> wrote:
>
> I was wondering if there is any problem with feeding wild hogs.

Feed'em ... they are pigs. :) :) :)

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (3)
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8b. Re: feeding wild pork
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 7:56 pm ((PDT))

Hi Betty,

Great stuff, but wild hog should be frozen before feeding in order to kill
any possible parasites.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "scarebetty" <scarebetty@yahoo.com>

I was wondering if there is any problem with feeding wild hogs. I
have friends who do a lot of hunting of wild hogs and thought that it
might be a good source of meat, but wanted to check and see if it
would be ok to feed.

Messages in this topic (3)
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9a. Re: Most valuable/least valuable meat?
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 7:59 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Kristen"
<kristengilkinsonrmt@...> wrote:

> In all the research I've done I've heard, from select people,
> a variety
> of meats should be avoided (turkey, pork, etc), but I have
> never been
> given a reason why this is so.

> What meats offer the most valuable nutritional benefit and
> Which meats they believe should be avoided (if any)...and WHY!

Both pork and turkey are fine to feed. The reason that you hear
that turkey shouldn't be fed is because of some chemical it is
supposed to have in it that makes the eater lethargic. You will
hear the pork should be fed because of a parasite called trichinosis
(sp). Both of these are balony. Feed both meats and don't worry
about them. I feed both regularly.

IMO the more red a meat is, the more nutrtious. I don't have
anything to base that on except my own feelings. (Red has to do
with the amount of blood in the meat.)

Meats to avoid: Some people won't feed the meat of a carnivore. I
don't know if there is validity to that or not.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (5)
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9b. Re: Most valuable/least valuable meat?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 8:56 pm ((PDT))

"Kristen" <kristengilkinsonrmt@...> wrote:
> In all the research I've done I've heard, from select people, a
variety
> of meats should be avoided (turkey, pork, etc), but I have never
been
> given a reason why this is so.
*****
That cause the reasons they be blowing smoke.

Turkey is high quality protein that offers variety to the raw
feeder. Most people connect turkey with being sleepy after big
holiday meals, and blame it on L-Tryptophan as if turkey alone
provides it. Not.

Tryptophan is an essential amino acid which menas our bodies (and
one would conclude dogs' bodies) do not make, and is a precursor to
serotonin which makes you sleepy. Sources or tryptophan (that would
be relevant to our purposes) include other poultry, dairy, beef and
fish as well as turkey. So there's nothing special about turkey and
sleepiness except that twice a year in many homes across the US and
maybe Canada people make gosh darn pigs of themselves on, well,
turkey.

Commercial pork in the US, Canada, Australia and some EU countries
has been healthy and virtually free of trich and other parasites for
at least 20 years. In fact, Australia never has had problems with
parasitic pork. Used to be is not what now is. Commercial pork
producers have cleaned up their act, period. If you are considering
buyin a pig from the farmer down the street make he keeps the joint
clean and feeds properly. From the supermarket, pork is fine.

Be interesting to know what the etc's are.

> What meats offer the most valuable nutritional benefit
*****
The meat that your dog likes, eats and digests well and thrives on.

and
> Which meats they believe should be avoided (if any)...and WHY!
*****
The meats that cost a freakin' arm and leg but are totally rejected
by the dog. Meats that are ground and blended. Why is obvious.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (5)
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10a. Freezer
Posted by: "Alison Maffett" sweettuth23@yahoo.com sweettuth23
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 8:02 pm ((PDT))

Hello, I have been feeding raw for a year now and just bought a freezer! I am very excited to have a freezer now and can't wait to start buying large amounts of food. When I buy meat from the store, should I just throw it in the freezer? Or should I rinse it off then put it in freezer bags then put it in the freezer? Thanks, Alison

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Messages in this topic (6)
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11a. Re: After vomiting,started shaking head frequently..what is wrong wi
Posted by: "Bearhair" bearhair@spamcop.net bearhair61
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 8:06 pm ((PDT))

Yassy wrote:

> It was real wiered because before vomiting,she was just plain normal. After vomiting,started shaking head.I see she is uncomfortable something.
> She shaked every minutes or so if not laying down or sleeping.
> Then, noticed she scratch one ear with hind leg a bit and shake. So, I looked at the ear.Only right ear was problem. I saw pimple like tiny swell and bit pinkier.
> And,ear was like right ear pointing side way while left ear is upright. . . .
> Well,today,the shaking seem to be dissapearing and pimple-like stuff got less pinkier.
> Does not look like bothering her as much as yesterday and she is happy dog. . . .
> However,she started right after vomiting was real wiered.Maybe coincidence? It started from 4pm yesterday..
> I thought about food allegy thing to Mutton but,I did not think that allegy thing would not appear right seconds one eats something. Do you think it was?

No, no allergy, and it wouldn't show up as just one local spot like that.

Could it be that maybe she was bothered by it earlier, but you didn't notice
it until you were REALLY paying attention to her after she vomited?

Keep watching her ears to see whether the bump improves or gets worse, but as
long as she's a happy dog, she sounds like she survived her introduction to
marrow.

Just another reason why dogs should NOT use chopsticks!

Lora

Messages in this topic (4)
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12a. Re: first time to Asian market now with questions
Posted by: "woofwoofgrrl" cmc4lists1@gastrounit.com woofwoofgrrl
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 8:07 pm ((PDT))

This reminded me that I wanted to ask about pick stomach - my grocery
store had some that was labed as NOT scalded - would this then be good
for raw feeding or still not worth it?
Christine

>> pig stomach
>
> This has been sanitized for human consumption. Not much use for raw
> feeding.
>

Messages in this topic (5)
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12b. Re: first time to Asian market now with questions
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:08 pm ((PDT))

woofwoofgrrl <cmc4lists1@...> wrote:
>
> This reminded me that I wanted to ask about pick stomach - my
grocery
> store had some that was labed as NOT scalded - would this then be
good
> for raw feeding or still not worth it?
*****
If it ain't green and stinky and totally socially unacceptable, it may
be edible but it's not valuable. I say pasadena.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (5)
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13a. Re: Can't get a solid poop! (was New puppy won't eat)
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 8:26 pm ((PDT))

Brad and Pam Barnes <miningcamp_labs@...> wrote:
I'm glad I didn't run out and buy
> more pills we didn't need!
*****
Well you discover you need them, you'll know where to find them.

What are your thoughts
> on supplementing with Glusocamine, Chondroitin and MSM
> for arthritis associated with dysplasia when feeding a
> raw diet?
*****
My thoughts are that you should feed plenty of naturally occurring
glucosamine/chondroitin and supplement with pills and powders if
naturally occurring is not enough.

What is naturally occurring? Oh, every body part that contains a
cartilage in a moveable joint and sometimes not in a moveable joint,
like chicken breast bone plus all trachea and gullet.

I take gl/ch and MSM myself, but I don't eat that much (like none)
naturally occurring cartilage.

To the list of useful supplements add fish body oil (varietal or one
species) for not only the anti-inflammatory benefits but also immune
system support. Actually, anti-inflammatory and immune system
support are benefits of the same process.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (15)
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14a. Re: New puppy won't eat
Posted by: "pet.wellness" pet.wellness@yahoo.com pet.wellness
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:09 pm ((PDT))

I can't advise you about the raw food; I can say that a 7 week old
puppy is just a baby. In fact, when I brought Matisse home, I was
shocked how much a baby a 7 week old puppy is. He's way out of his
comfort zone, away from his mother and litter mates. He probably
wouldn't eat at once even if you fed something that was familiar. Lots
of adjustments. Just go slow. Hunger and instinct will kick in.

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "rottinluvr" <rottinluv@...> wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> I brought home my new puppy today. A 7 week old Rottweiler. I figured
> Any suggestions would be GREATLY appreciated!
>
> Leanne & Casino
>

Messages in this topic (15)
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15a. Pork Neck Bones
Posted by: "cas22ccrn" cas22ccrn@yahoo.com cas22ccrn
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:09 pm ((PDT))

I have been feeding my two greyhounds raw for a little over a month,
RMB of chicken, muscle meat, turkey, some organ meats and they both
have been doing great. I want to try some pork neck bones that I had
read was one of the RMB you can give. Found some for what I think was a
cheap price. Question to all, the bones seem to be very hard, much
harder than the chicken. Are these ok to feed, I was concerned that
they are to hard for the dogs to chew up. I haven't fed any yet, wanted
to get feed back from the more experienced raw feeders, and how their
dog did with these. Thanks for any information.
Cindy

Messages in this topic (4)
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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11798

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Little dogs
From: Garnaas, Carolyn (MED US)

2a. thank you emily re cat will only eat pork. period :(
From: alliecaracleo

3a. Re: After vomiting,started shaking head frequently..what is wrong wi
From: Yasuko herron

4a. Re: first time to Asian market now with questions
From: Daisy Foxworth

5a. Re: Spoiled meat
From: nwohiopma

6a. Re: animal head
From: Yasuko herron

7a. my mom=raw feeder!
From: sillypoodle2003
7b. Re: my mom=raw feeder!
From: Yuliya Brown
7c. Re: my mom=raw feeder!
From: pet.wellness
7d. Re: my mom=raw feeder!
From: deep_ocean_of_sorrow

8a. Re: Cheap meat sources, and an egg question
From: Nathalie Poulin

9. feeding wild pork
From: scarebetty

10a. Re: more victories for Raw
From: Sandee Lee

11a. Re: Starved Stray Food Suggestions
From: Sandee Lee

12a. adding new meats to diet
From: Katie
12b. Re: adding new meats to diet
From: seaneboyee

13a. Re: Can't get a solid poop! (was New puppy won't eat)
From: Brad and Pam Barnes

14a. Really worried that my dog is losing weight
From: Eve
14b. Re: Really worried that my dog is losing weight
From: Lyse Garant
14c. Re: Really worried that my dog is losing weight
From: Andrea
14d. Re: Really worried that my dog is losing weight
From: seaneboyee

15a. Most valuable/least valuable meat?
From: Kristen
15b. Re: Most valuable/least valuable meat?
From: seaneboyee
15c. Re: Most valuable/least valuable meat?
From: Andrea

16. WHat are sme other organ options besides liver?
From: kaebruney

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1. Re: Little dogs
Posted by: "Garnaas, Carolyn (MED US)" carolyn.garnaas@siemens.com carolyn.garnaas
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 11:05 am ((PDT))

I feed my five-pound Toy Poodle venison (when I am energetic enough to
find it), lamb, pork, including pork ribs, beef, and all the birdies;
quail, game hen, chicken, turkey, duck, and ostrich. She tears the meat
off the bone for her boneless meals, but after nearly four years of
rawfeeding, the only bones she completely consumes are chicken bones.
Have tried giving her rabbit, as those are nice soft bones, but she will
have none of it. She nibbles at the ends of the pork ribs, but won't
consume one.

Carolyn J. Garnaas

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Messages in this topic (1)
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2a. thank you emily re cat will only eat pork. period :(
Posted by: "alliecaracleo" alliecaracleo@yahoo.com alliecaracleo
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 11:08 am ((PDT))

Thank you for your response. Agree 100% EXCEPT for the 24 hr thing
and felines not eating. This is where the prob comes in when i must
feed her something she will consume. Mine have then gone on to
vomiting due to not eating for 24 hrs.

Ciao everyone
Denise
> >
> > I love my ribs too but Allie will only eat country style ribs. I
> gave
> > for a few meals, then switch to chicken or turkey heart or
gizzard
> and
> > she went on fast. I dont have any beef which she has never had
and
> > wanted to use what is in freezer. I will buy some fish. Question
> is how
> > often is pork ok to eat? I understand variety concept for balance
> but
> > she loves her pork. Is it unhealthy for felines to consume pork
> > regularly?
> >
> > Have a good one everyone
> > Denise
> >
> I don't see a problem with a pork based diet, in general, as long
as
> there is a valid reason for one. And, IMO, pickiness is not a
valid
> reason. I think you have a behavioral issue on your hands, which I
> would handle using tough love. I know things can be different with
> cats (I only have dogs), but I'd make pork go away for a while.
I'd
> get this kitty back to eating what you feed. Once she's back to
> eating chicken and turkey without objection, then offer the pork
> again. The key is that you're in charge of what's on the menu- not
> her.
>
> Emily
>

Messages in this topic (3)
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3a. Re: After vomiting,started shaking head frequently..what is wrong wi
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 11:40 am ((PDT))

Hi,Lora.

>I agree with you that the richness of the marrow is a good guess as to why it
>came up.

Thank you for answering to my posts again:-P It is always helpful and I am very appreciated.
I take journal for my palette's diet,and noticed that this week is week 9 after started raw feeding! Already passed 2 months! So fast!

Yes, I think from next time,I will just give her tiny bit of marrow if she wanted to get to it.
I learnt one thing here:-P Not too much marrow to give if I wanted to avoid vomiting:-P

> I have no idea what the head shaking might be about.

It was real wiered because before vomiting,she was just plain normal. After vomiting,started shaking head.I see she is uncomfortable something.

She shaked every minutes or so if not laying down or sleeping.

Then, noticed she scratch one ear with hind leg a bit and shake. So, I looked at the ear.Only right ear was problem. I saw pimple like tiny swell and bit pinkier.
And,ear was like right ear pointing side way while left ear is upright.

When my husband came home,he looked at it and offered if the swell got worse or more reddish,he would take off and visit vet.

Well,today,the shaking seem to be dissapearing and pimple-like stuff got less pinkier.
Does not look like bothering her as much as yesterday and she is happy dog.

So, we did not go to vet.

Husband said maybe mosquito bites or something. We do not find flea or tick with her anywhere when flea combing so,maybe insect bit her. I will keep an eye on her and see if it gets worse or not.Since she looks ok today so,probably not.

However,she started right after vomiting was real wiered.Maybe coincidence? It started from 4pm yesterday..

I thought about food allegy thing to Mutton but,I did not think that allegy thing would not appear right seconds one eats something. Do you think it was?

I myself is not allegy to anything and she has never been told she has allegy to anything so,I have no idea how fast the symptom like scratching/lash appears.

Thank you

yassy

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Messages in this topic (3)
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4a. Re: first time to Asian market now with questions
Posted by: "Daisy Foxworth" daisyfoxworth@yahoo.com daisyfoxworth
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 11:42 am ((PDT))

Joanne, you just inspired me to check out the Asian market a couple
blocks from where I work. (Lovely day for a field trip!) As far as
organs, I had only been able to find chicken liver locally so I'm
starting to hunt out ethnic markets.

Lots of meat labelled "meat", if labelled at all, LOL. Lots of stuff
that if I weren't buying it to feed raw I would have no idea how to
cook! Scored on pork kidney. Anyone know about duck tongue?

Daisy

Messages in this topic (3)
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5a. Re: Spoiled meat
Posted by: "nwohiopma" nwohiopma@yahoo.com nwohiopma
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:42 pm ((PDT))

Thanks, Bill and Penny. I'll tell her to start over with just chicken
and to watch his poop.

Candace and the 4 Collies for Heather and Minx

Messages in this topic (4)
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6a. Re: animal head
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 1:09 pm ((PDT))

>link takes you to an intro page, not one with photos of veal head with dog!
http://www.rawdogranch.com/ourfavorites.htm

Hi,I found this from old thread. It is bit gross but, dog eats just meat or can eat some bones or eyeballs etc?

Anyone has fed animal head?

I was just curious.

yassy

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Messages in this topic (23)
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7a. my mom=raw feeder!
Posted by: "sillypoodle2003" angels_mom73@hotmail.com sillypoodle2003
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 2:06 pm ((PDT))

my mom, dyed-in-the-wool box thinker, has FINALLY switched to raw
(sort of). she has been totally against raw from the start. but i have
been sending her links and articles ect over the past year i have fed
my dog raw. i think she almost gets it. but, she is stuck on the pre
ground mixes. dont know if its because its "commercial" so it must be
good or what. but, any raw is better than kibble, right? anyway, she
wants to feed that plus raw chicken legs/thighs and/or quarters all
the time. yes or no? i did tell her the dog needs ogans meats for
vitamins ect. getting her to ditch the kibble is a huge step, mind
you. the dog is a 9 y/o schipperke with a checkered past. 5 homes by 6
months of age, over vaxed, ect. behavioral problems out the wazoo.
after losing 3 other schips at young ages (3, 10, and 13 y/o) i think
she is finally coming round. but, anyways, do yall think feeding
chicken along with the pre ground stuff all the time will be ok? or
should i try harder to get her to swing all the way to the right way?

tia again everyone,
kelly and zeke, the wonder poodle

Messages in this topic (4)
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7b. Re: my mom=raw feeder!
Posted by: "Yuliya Brown" yuliya_brown@yahoo.com yuliya_brown
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 2:42 pm ((PDT))

well, I'd suggest buying ground stuff that made of
beef, because it will have some organs added, so it
will be ground, but it still will be there. I wasn't
looking much into ground stuff, but maybe you can
point her to the brands that have organs in it. And I
think that as long as she will balance between chicken
and it , it would be ok. The dog might still require
the regular teeth cleaning as it might not get enought
work for the gums and teeth.
Yuliya
> do yall
> think feeding
> chicken along with the pre ground stuff all the time
> will be ok? or
> should i try harder to get her to swing all the way
> to the right way?
>
> tia again everyone,
> kelly and zeke, the wonder poodle
>
>

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Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________

7c. Re: my mom=raw feeder!
Posted by: "pet.wellness" pet.wellness@yahoo.com pet.wellness
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 3:04 pm ((PDT))

I think you should treat her just like you would a good dog: reward
the progress she is making with praise, ignore the bad stuff and keep
providing calm, assertive leadership until she choose to swing all the
way. :-)) Pamela

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "sillypoodle2003"
<angels_mom73@...> wrote:
>
> she is finally coming round. but, anyways, do yall think feeding
> chicken along with the pre ground stuff all the time will be ok? or
> should i try harder to get her to swing all the way to the right way?
>
> tia again everyone,
> kelly and zeke, the wonder poodle
>

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________

7d. Re: my mom=raw feeder!
Posted by: "deep_ocean_of_sorrow" deep_ocean_of_sorrow@yahoo.com deep_ocean_of_sorrow
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 3:04 pm ((PDT))

Although I am new to this raw feeding, I highly suggest you talking your
mother more about switching fully into raw meat. I read somewhere that
if you're in the middle of he road or you don't fully change into raw
meat or kibbles, it can upset the stomach or something cause kibbles are
digested slower.

maybe you should give her links about what actually is in kibbles? (like
the grains and dog collars and whatnot. . . theres TONS online if you
search it. )

I had to convince my mom that raw feeding is OK for dogs. She and my dad
kept saying, "raw foods are hazardous. He might DIE " well, hazardous to
maybe humans cause we've cooked meat for thousands of years, but dogs...
not so much. anyways,

good luck,

Kate

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "sillypoodle2003" <angels_mom73@...>
wrote:
>
> my mom, dyed-in-the-wool box thinker, has FINALLY switched to raw
> (sort of). she has been totally against raw from the start. but i have
> been sending her links and articles ect over the past year i have fed
> my dog raw. i think she almost gets it. but, she is stuck on the pre
> ground mixes. dont know if its because its "commercial" so it must be
> good or what. but, any raw is better than kibble, right? anyway, she
> wants to feed that plus raw chicken legs/thighs and/or quarters all
> the time. yes or no? i did tell her the dog needs ogans meats for
> vitamins ect. getting her to ditch the kibble is a huge step, mind
> you. the dog is a 9 y/o schipperke with a checkered past. 5 homes by 6
> months of age, over vaxed, ect. behavioral problems out the wazoo.
> after losing 3 other schips at young ages (3, 10, and 13 y/o) i think
> she is finally coming round. but, anyways, do yall think feeding
> chicken along with the pre ground stuff all the time will be ok? or
> should i try harder to get her to swing all the way to the right way?
>
> tia again everyone,
> kelly and zeke, the wonder poodle
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
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8a. Re: Cheap meat sources, and an egg question
Posted by: "Nathalie Poulin" poulin_nathalie@yahoo.ca poulin_nathalie
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 2:42 pm ((PDT))

What is this Freecylce group?
I'm extremely intrigued..

Nathalie

--- chele519 <chele519@yahoo.com> wrote:

> This would be my suggestion too. I just got 2
> turkeys, some roasts,
> some ground beef. For my smaller dog, enough for a
> couple months with
> the turkeys. Good luck, I hope it works out for you.
>
> Michele
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com,
> Hllywoodcaper7@... wrote:
>
> > Do you have a local freecycle group? >
> > Freecycle (yahoo group) in your area may have
> people who would give
> you old
> > and freezer burned meat too. HTH! Tamatha ;)
> >

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Messages in this topic (15)
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9. feeding wild pork
Posted by: "scarebetty" scarebetty@yahoo.com scarebetty
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 2:42 pm ((PDT))

Messages in this topic (1)
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10a. Re: more victories for Raw
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 3:01 pm ((PDT))

Cindy,

There is some good info in these two messages (and lots more in the
archives).....

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/135757
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/135847

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "cinjoel" <cinjoel@yahoo.com>

Now I need to ask some questions...I have a great dane but my newest
recruits have shih tzu pups. What do you recommend they introduce
1st, 2nd, sand so on? So far the mom and her 3 babies have been
eating Oma's beef 'mush' (ground beef & organs) and chicken breast,
beef cubes and some cooked chicken or whatever human mommy and daddy
are having for dinner.

I know they need to start adding some bone...what do you think about
chicken necks? any suggestions? The pups are 8 weeks old now.

Messages in this topic (2)
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11a. Re: Starved Stray Food Suggestions
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 3:07 pm ((PDT))

Ashley,

The very best you can do for the health and missed nutrition for this pup is
feed an appropriate diet..and that of course is raw. Cooked food is not
easier to digest or better for her. Start with something easily digestible
such as bone-in chicken breasts, feed several small meals a day, and don't
worry about supplements (especially calcium). Just feed her good food with
a little bone.

And do NOT vaccinate or worm this little girl right now. The rabies was
already a huge assault on her immune system...don't add to it.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Ash" <want4rain@yahoo.com>

we had a little 9mo old + tortie show up on our back porch two nights
ago. we took her to the vet yesterday morning. she was not micro
chipped, we gave her a rabies shot and had her weighed. we dont have
the money to get her vaccinations taken care of nor get her wormed but
we are in contact with a local rescue who is (i assume) willing to pay
for those things if we foster her for them. cool deal to us, hopefully
we can do most of that stuff tomorrow.

well, she weighs 3lbs and just a few ounces when she should weigh at
least 8lbs at her skinniest. ive been feeding her cooked salmon,
oyster, calcium and cooked whole egg with the salmon being most of it,
a single oyster, a bit of crushed up calcium pill and a table spoon of
egg mix. yesterday we started with a single tbs to see if she could
hold it down, through out the day i think i gave her a total of 9(??)
table spoons of this and it all went down fantastic, she pooped well
this morning, peed 4 times... im watering it down well too.

does any one have any suggestions of something to help her gain weight
and yet still provide the missing nutrition? we plan on picking up a
nutritional supplement today from the vet. while we are big advocates
of raw and feed our pets raw, we do not feel comfortable feeding her
raw right now because of her health but i am willing to find a happy
middle ground by cooking some of the stuff we feed her.

Messages in this topic (2)
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12a. adding new meats to diet
Posted by: "Katie" kcrockett@mac.com kcrockettla7
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 3:10 pm ((PDT))

I've been feeding my dogs a raw diet for a few weeks. I started with the commercial "nature's
variety" but have moved to cuts of meat.

i have 4 dogs of my own - 2 goldens, a bc/aussie/?? mix, and a 13 year old schipperke (who,
incidentally, is darling as she tears up 1/2 of a cornish game hen!). I also have a 10 month
old schip that I am fostering, and often a foster golden or two (although not at the moment)

my question - I have mostly been feeding cheicken. I gave beef one night, only to find lotd
of runny pooped dogs the next day, so i backed up to chicken again.
after several weeks, i'm wanting to add other meats. is it better to give a meal of another
meat, or to offer a small amount of another meat WITH the chicken, so it's more gradula?

thanks.

katie

(btw - i think i read the answer on this already, but to double check . . . are lamb shanks NOT
ok becuase the bones are too hard, being weight bearing? i read in one post that it's only
LARGE animals that you can' give weight bearing bones from, but another said lamb shanks
are not ok.)

Messages in this topic (2)
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12b. Re: adding new meats to diet
Posted by: "seaneboyee" seaneboyee@yahoo.com seaneboyee
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:35 pm ((PDT))

While my dog didn't experience runny stools when adding new meats, I
did follow the general rule that is suggested when I did feed k****e
and that was to stick with 75% of the first meat and 25% of the new. I
did that until I was feeding the new source for the whole week or two
then added a new one.

Good luck!
Sean

Messages in this topic (2)
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13a. Re: Can't get a solid poop! (was New puppy won't eat)
Posted by: "Brad and Pam Barnes" miningcamp_labs@yahoo.com miningcamp_labs
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 3:58 pm ((PDT))

Thanks, Chris O. I'm glad I didn't run out and buy
more pills we didn't need! I do have a friend who
breeds labs and uses these supplements all the time.
Of course, she feeds K#$*ble. What are your thoughts
on supplementing with Glusocamine, Chondroitin and MSM
for arthritis associated with dysplasia when feeding a
raw diet? Pam - Mining CAmp Labs

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Messages in this topic (13)
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14a. Really worried that my dog is losing weight
Posted by: "Eve" loulou_bean@yahoo.com loulou_bean
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 5:03 pm ((PDT))

Ok, so it's his 4th day on the raw diet--been giving
him chicken quarters. Before this hia diet consnisted
of ground beef/grain mixture, which I know wasn't
correct.

I took people's advice and took the chicken up after
10-15 minutes when not much was happening. But the
bottom line is..he's not getting enough food. He's had
the quarter chicken tonight for a good 40 minutes
already. It seems he's getting sidetracked with the
stringy pieces and whatever skin was left on, but not
really tearing into the meat.

I know that his ribs feel different--definitely feels
skinnier and I am worried. I am close to just giving
him his old diet back just so he can get something
more in his system.

Or even just cutting the chicken up and putting it in
his bowl.

Any other meat types or ideas where maybe he'll eat
better/more? I think he gets the process of chewing
off the meat because I saw him do it, but he's not
really going for it.

He just walked away from the chicken and went into his
little crate and mushed his around around and
scratched at it and growled a little. He ate some, but
defintely did not consume even close to how much he
needs for his weight. He's 17 pounds. Is he telling me
he's done by walking away? He hardly ate anything.

And, he hasn't pooped in 3 days.

Can someone please help?

Thanks,
Eve

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14b. Re: Really worried that my dog is losing weight
Posted by: "Lyse Garant" lyse_garant@yahoo.com lyse_garant
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:10 pm ((PDT))

MODERATORS NOTE:TRIM YOUR MAILS, PLEASE!

I am no expert Eve, but I bet he'll start eating more within a couple of days, and I completely sympathize with you, Guinness is always prowling and looking hungry, but I know he's had enough to eat, [due to exact volume consumed] and he hasn't dooted in a day and a half either...but I know he's ok, he is playful and extremely happy, though I admit, he's slowed down a bit. I expect it's because he's still getting rid of the bad stuff left in his system.
Lyse & G& N

Eve <loulou_bean@yahoo.com> wrote:
Ok, so it's his 4th day on the raw diet--been giving

And, he hasn't pooped in 3 days.

Can someone please help?

Thanks,
Eve

Lyse

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14c. Re: Really worried that my dog is losing weight
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:33 pm ((PDT))

Eve, how is your dog's energy? Is it getting hot where you live? After four days I wouldn't
worry too much, at least he's eating. Some dogs will just flat refuse to eat for that long
before they realize they can't dictate what gets fed. If he weighs 17lbs, that equates to
about 1/3lb every day(2%), which really isn't a lot.

It is also possible he had a little ki**le fat that is just going away. If he continues to lose
weight or he is becoming lethargic, you should try a beef roast or pork shoulder, see if he
is more interested in that. But for now, I'd stick it out with the chicken. Don't cut it up for
him or you'll be sewing the seeds of a picky eater.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Eve <loulou_bean@...> wrote:

> I know that his ribs feel different--definitely feels
> skinnier and I am worried. I am close to just giving
> him his old diet back just so he can get something
> more in his system.
>
> Or even just cutting the chicken up and putting it in
> his bowl.
>
> Any other meat types or ideas where maybe he'll eat
> better/more? I think he gets the process of chewing
> off the meat because I saw him do it, but he's not
> really going for it.

Messages in this topic (4)
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14d. Re: Really worried that my dog is losing weight
Posted by: "seaneboyee" seaneboyee@yahoo.com seaneboyee
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:33 pm ((PDT))

As many others will say, you need to offer tough love, continue picking
up the food if there is no activity after 15 minutes and serve it again
during the next meal. My JRT-mix who is very shy wasn't interested in
the food for a couple of days, he just licked the water off of it,
sniffed it, walked around it, laid down and just stared at it. No
treats in between, nothing. After a couple of days, he started
nibbling at it and slowly learned that this is what he is going to be
fed from now on. I wouldn't worry too much as long as he/she is
drinking water and urinating. The lack of poop is probably due to the
fact that he has no waste to let out. Hang in there, I know it's
difficult.

Best regards,
Sean

Messages in this topic (4)
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15a. Most valuable/least valuable meat?
Posted by: "Kristen" kristengilkinsonrmt@rogers.com kgilkinson
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 5:12 pm ((PDT))

Hi,

In all the research I've done I've heard, from select people, a variety
of meats should be avoided (turkey, pork, etc), but I have never been
given a reason why this is so. I feed a variety of everything I can get
my hands on (turkey, pork, chicken, beef, buffalo, rabbit, fish, duck,
etc. etc.) and have a very healthy and happy dog to show for it.

Just to clarify, in case I just have a dog with a strong stomach, I'd
like to ask two questions:
What meats offer the most valuable nutritional benefit and
Which meats they believe should be avoided (if any)...and WHY!

Thanks!!
Kristen

Messages in this topic (3)
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15b. Re: Most valuable/least valuable meat?
Posted by: "seaneboyee" seaneboyee@yahoo.com seaneboyee
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:33 pm ((PDT))

I am very new to raw feeding and have only been on it for about 3.5
weeks now and I haven't heard anything about meals to avoid. What I do
hear the most about when it comes to avoiding is heavy, weight-bearing
bones which can cause damage to your dog's tooth.

I reside in Hawaii where everything, especially groceries, is expensive
and I do feed whatever I can find and can afford.

Regards,
Sean

Messages in this topic (3)
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15c. Re: Most valuable/least valuable meat?
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:34 pm ((PDT))

I've never heard a legitimate reason not to feed certain meats. The only caveat I know of is
that wild game and fish should be frozen solid for a few weeks to kill any parasites that
might be there. You are right to dismiss all the fear mongering.

If I had to feed a diet consisting of only two animals I would have to choose from animals
that would close to a wolf's natural prey. Venison definitely, the other would be a toss up.
Maybe rabbit, maybe buffalo, maybe goat.

The only meats I avoid feeding on a regular basis are those from slow growing fishes that
are prone to having higher levels of toxins. I'll still feed tuna and the like, but only on
occasion. Other than that, I avoid non-prey type animals like coyote or cats.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Kristen" <kristengilkinsonrmt@...> wrote:

> Just to clarify, in case I just have a dog with a strong stomach, I'd
> like to ask two questions:
> What meats offer the most valuable nutritional benefit and
> Which meats they believe should be avoided (if any)...and WHY!

Messages in this topic (3)
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16. WHat are sme other organ options besides liver?
Posted by: "kaebruney" kaebruney@yahoo.com kaebruney
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 7:03 pm ((PDT))

Oka, my boys hat eliver.
I mean HATE it.

I've trtied baking it with garlic, frying it a little.. even mixing it
with egg and rice and still no go.

When I feed it as is, they will eat all their other food first and
leave me little liver strips on the food mats.

So.. what does one feed two dogs who refuse their organ meat?

One of my boys is shedding despite beig short hair and I'm convinced
it's because he's missing his EFA's and Omega 3's. :0(

HELP!...

Kae

Messages in this topic (1)
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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11797

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. admin: non raw food
From: bluegracepwd

2a. Little odgs
From: betty hinson
2b. Re: Little odgs
From: carnesbill
2c. Re: Little odgs
From: brutus_buckley
2d. Re: Little odgs
From: tottime47

3a. Re: Just fed a beef testicle...
From: rach9876

4a. Concerned about my peke
From: Eve
4b. Re: Concerned about my peke
From: Andrea

5a. Re: Spoiled meat
From: carnesbill
5b. Re: Spoiled meat
From: Penny (Nickles) Parker

6a. Re: BAD GIRL WILL ONLY EAT PORK :(
From: emilystep

7a. Re: And ONE more???
From: Lyse Garant

8a. Re: ate the whole piece...
From: Lyse Garant

9.1. Re: allergies
From: Penny (Nickles) Parker

10. Starved Stray Food Suggestions
From: Ash

11a. Re: Cutting up chicken
From: Marion
11b. Re: Cutting up chicken
From: brutus_buckley
11c. Re: Cutting up chicken
From: carnesbill
11d. Re: Cutting up chicken
From: Andrea

12. more victories for Raw
From: cinjoel

13a. question and funny story
From: moniquemcelwee
13b. Re: question and funny story
From: Sonja

14a. first time to Asian market now with questions
From: Joanne Bartling
14b. Re: first time to Asian market now with questions
From: Andrea

15a. Re: Cheap meat sources, and an egg question
From: chele519

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. admin: non raw food
Posted by: "bluegracepwd" janea@tpg.com.au bluegracepwd
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 5:54 am ((PDT))

Hi all,

It's probably timely I remind a few people that this is the raw
feeding email list. We keep the discussion to raw food for pets
only. If you'd like to discuss kibble, or pre-made products, feel
free to do that on other email lists.

If you'd like to discuss that with me, email me privately -
janea@tpg.com.au

I'll tell you now, I've just gone into approve messages, and I've just
deleted emails asking questions about so called "high" quality
kibbles. I will continue to delete them. This is not the list for
that discussion.

with thanks,

Jane
List Owner.

Messages in this topic (2)
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2a. Little odgs
Posted by: "betty hinson" b_hinson@sbcglobal.net paps4jesus
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 5:55 am ((PDT))

Can any body what type of meats with the bone would be good for little Papillion's. Its hard to find any butchers around here. does chicken wings have enough meat/ Can you feed turkey necks? Pork makes them sick. I do give them beef ribs to chew on but feed thisis not enough meat. How about chiken necks too much bone not enough meat??
Betty Hinson
b_hinson@sbcglobal.net
I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me Phil 4:13

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
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2b. Re: Little odgs
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:59 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "betty hinson" <b_hinson@...>
wrote:
>
> Can any body what type of meats with the bone would be good for
little Papillion's.

I think you are looking at this through blinders, Betty. It doesn't
matter if wings have enough meat or not. If you don't think they
do, feed wings one meal and feed boneless meat the next. It will
all balance out. You can feed chunks of beef roast with no bone.
You can feed boneless chicken breasts or turkey. There are lots of
boneless stuff you can feed.

Don't worry a lot about feeding too much bone. The exact amount of
bone they eat is not critical. I think its more important to work
on getting a variety in the diet.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (4)
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2c. Re: Little odgs
Posted by: "brutus_buckley" brutus_buckley@yahoo.com brutus_buckley
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 8:33 am ((PDT))

Hi Betty,

I think it's natural to fret a little over meal planning until you
get comfortable. I don't know how long you have been feeding raw, but
it took me a few months of feeding before I could really relax about
meal planning. What helped me was to plan my dog's meals weekly, not
daily, keeping the 80/10/10 ratio and lots of variety in mind. For
example, my dog might get pork ribs one day, which have more bone in
them, and then a boneless meal of beef the next day. As long as it
balances out, it's fine. I don't worry about the daily meal anymore;
I just pick something from the pile I have defrosted for that week.

If your dog can't tolerate pork, consider rabbit, turkey, chicken and
fish. These are are all great sources of edible bone. If you can't
find these locally at your grocery stores, check out smaller markets,
ethnic markets or online sources. For example, I buy my green tripe
and my rabbit online. Look for a local raw feeding co-op group; I
have found my local group to be a fantastic resource.

Avoid animal parts like wings or necks unless they are attached to a
larger piece. Not because of bone content, but because small items
could be swallowed whole. Try cutting up a whole chicken for your
dog, or offer leg quarters or breasts with attached ribs. If this is
too much for one meal, take it away after letting your dog eat it for
awhile and save the rest for the next meal.

-Renee W.

Messages in this topic (4)
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2d. Re: Little odgs
Posted by: "tottime47" tottime@aol.com tottime47
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 10:27 am ((PDT))

Hi Betty,

I have a small Peke, 10 lbs.

On the days I give him chicken,

In the morning I will give him a leg, skin on
sometimes he eats part of the bone and sometimes he
doesn't.

In the evening I will debone a chicken thigh and just give him
the meat and skin.

He is supposed to have 4% or so of meat per day..........

If you debone a leg, most of them average out to 2 oz. of actual
meat, at least
the ones I buy here do...same for a chicken thigh minus the
bones.........

(I buy mine fresh from a butcher and buy the youngest, smaller ones
so they have softer bones)

If you give a bone meal like a chicken neck, wing, etc. then just
add some meat to it or make sure the next meal is all meat.

Carol & Charkee

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "betty hinson" <b_hinson@...>
wrote:
>
> Can any body what type of meats with the bone would be good for
little Papillion's.

Messages in this topic (4)
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3a. Re: Just fed a beef testicle...
Posted by: "rach9876" rach9876@yahoo.com rach9876
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 5:59 am ((PDT))

Well, it's the next morning now and so far so good. No squirts here -
just one happy pup! Thanks.

Rachel

Messages in this topic (5)
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4a. Concerned about my peke
Posted by: "Eve" loulou_bean@yahoo.com loulou_bean
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:44 am ((PDT))

I've noticed a change in my dog the last few days. He
started on raw chicken once a day three days ago. He
seems more lethargic and a little depressed. I have no
idea if I'm giving him the right amount. I know that
it should be 2-3% of his body weight, but it's kinda
hard to gauge the amount visually when he's eating
straight off the chicken. I let him have the chicken
for a while last night--it seemed like he ate a bunch
and even ate some bone. Maybe I'm paranoid, but he is
starting to feel a little skinnier to me. I can feel
his ribs more. I am concerned.

He also hasn't pooped in three days.

What do I do???

Eve, NY

____________________________________________________________________________________
Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.
http://get.games.yahoo.com/proddesc?gamekey=monopolyherenow

Messages in this topic (2)
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4b. Re: Concerned about my peke
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 8:16 am ((PDT))

Perhaps you should give her the chicken quarters and let her eat her
fill once a day. Little dogs often need more than 2-3% of their
ideal weight. Don't worry about measuring, let her do it for you.
If you find in a while that she's getting pudgy, you can start taking
the food away when she's had enough.

As far as acting "lethargic" does that mean she just lays around all
day and doesn't do anything? Or does it mean she isn't her normal
nutty self? You might just be seeing her normal energy state for the
first time. The carbs in ki**le give dogs an excess of energy that
they don't need. It is likely your dog is not lethargic, but is
simply calm.

I've heard several newbies say their dogs didn't go for three days
after switching diets. It could be that the poo is so much smaller
they don't notice it, or it may just be the dog's body using
everything it can out of the food and not producing enough waste to
warrant an evacuation. I don't know, but as long as she doesn't seem
to be in distress, you shouldn't worry much. She'll go soon enough.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Eve <loulou_bean@...> wrote:
>
> Hi
>
> I've noticed a change in my dog the last few days. He
> started on raw chicken once a day three days ago. He
> seems more lethargic and a little depressed.

Messages in this topic (2)
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5a. Re: Spoiled meat
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:45 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "nwohiopma" <nwohiopma@...> wrote:

> Any advice for her on how to help her dog have normal stool again?

Fast the dog for a day then begin his raw diet all over again from
scratch using my recommendations from my web page at

http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Treat the dog as if he had never eaten raw before. Add new protein
sources slowly back to the diet.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (3)
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5b. Re: Spoiled meat
Posted by: "Penny (Nickles) Parker" loverladymaggiemae@yahoo.com loverladymaggiemae
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 10:30 am ((PDT))

> Her dog ate a large piece of green, slimy, smelly pork out of the
> trash 3 weeks ago. She had thrown it out because it had started to
> smell. Ever since, the dog has had loose stool, only clearing up with
> chicken and bone. >
> Candace and the 4 Collies for Heather and Minx
>
For Heather and Minx

I would fast the dog for at least a day, maybe longer as he tolerates
it. Plenty of water, but no food. Let the gut rest. Then start with
a chicken (or part of a chicken) minus any organs. Stay on chicken and
see if the stool changes. If it doesn't she might want to have him vet
checked.
(Avoid all grains and dairy products of course.) Keep him on chicken
for a couple of weeks at least. Then gradually add in other meats one
at a time. Give each one a couple of weeks before adding another.
Make sure he is getting an appropriate amt of bone. More bone tends to
firm up stools, more organs tends to loosen up stools.
Keep us posted on how he does.
Penny & The Menagerie

Messages in this topic (3)
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6a. Re: BAD GIRL WILL ONLY EAT PORK :(
Posted by: "emilystep" emilystep@yahoo.com emilystep
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:45 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "alliecaracleo"
<alliecaracleo@...> wrote:
>
> I love my ribs too but Allie will only eat country style ribs. I
gave
> for a few meals, then switch to chicken or turkey heart or gizzard
and
> she went on fast. I dont have any beef which she has never had and
> wanted to use what is in freezer. I will buy some fish. Question
is how
> often is pork ok to eat? I understand variety concept for balance
but
> she loves her pork. Is it unhealthy for felines to consume pork
> regularly?
>
> Have a good one everyone
> Denise
>
I don't see a problem with a pork based diet, in general, as long as
there is a valid reason for one. And, IMO, pickiness is not a valid
reason. I think you have a behavioral issue on your hands, which I
would handle using tough love. I know things can be different with
cats (I only have dogs), but I'd make pork go away for a while. I'd
get this kitty back to eating what you feed. Once she's back to
eating chicken and turkey without objection, then offer the pork
again. The key is that you're in charge of what's on the menu- not
her.

Emily

Messages in this topic (2)
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7a. Re: And ONE more???
Posted by: "Lyse Garant" lyse_garant@yahoo.com lyse_garant
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 7:00 am ((PDT))

Thank you very much Jeni...
Lyse etc.

John and Jeni Blackmon <jonjeni777@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
My two great danes, eat chicken among other things all the time, and lick and kiss on me and my husband, all the time. My husband won't admitt to it, but they do. My husband has a terminal disese, and he has no immune system. We are always careful, but that is the extent of it. He is very clean. I keep the kitchen somewhat clean, not too clean. I feed the dogs, when he does it, he does it with the tongs, or with gloves, not because of his immune system, because it grosses him out:) Our dogs are made to handle the viral load and the germs that come with eating raw meat of all kinds. And when it comes to transmitting stuff back and forth to your daughter, I think, and have been told by doctors, that it doesn't work that way. Dogs don't give us what they have, and we don't give them what we have. Except fleas. And a very rare few things not worth mentioning here. Salmonilla not one of them. Slobbering is not going to be a problem for you, it hasn't been one in our
house, and I'm sure it won't be in yours. And remember, they lick their behinds too, so we aren't worried about getting poopy mouth from that now are we?! Keep the area your dogs eat in clean, crates are good, a towell is sufficiant, the floor is fine, Teaching the dogs a spot to eat in is a wonderful training tool for you and your daughter to share in with the dogs, and learn to do it together. Wash up after, and wash your daughters face once in a while and I'm sure you could even kiss her too! I remember my old room mates daughter who used to pick her nose, and scratch her you-know what, and then would put her hand in her mothers mouth, and I would just gag, now, I just laugh, I eat while I clean up all sorts of stuff, nothing fazes me anymore, germs are out there, and we just need to keep ourselves a little cleaner:)
Goodluck mommy, and enjoy the wonderful world of puppydom/motherhood
Jeni

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Lyse

---------------------------------
Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (13)
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8a. Re: ate the whole piece...
Posted by: "Lyse Garant" lyse_garant@yahoo.com lyse_garant
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 7:19 am ((PDT))

OKOK so we did a drumstick last night and one this morning. He ate it, took about 15 minutes on each piece, bone nicely chewed up too. THANKS EVERYONE... we are happy here today!

John and Jeni Blackmon <jonjeni777@sbcglobal.net> wrote: Lyse,
Yes, do the chicken, for a couple of weeks, that way they have to work at it, take their time eating, and digesting the food, and that is the whole chickens, with the innards too, that way you are covered on the organs, but not overdoing it. You can split the chicken up between the dogs, and the organs too, and then they both get what they need, and you don't have to always guess about meat/bones/organs, ratios and stuff, it all comes together eventually. It just doesn't have to happen at each individual meal. In a perfect world that would be great, but we aren't perfect and neither are our dogs.
Get some whole chickens, with everything, cut into halfs and then quarter those and start with that, and give the organs with the meal on the third or fourth day, after they have finished off the whole chicken. No need to cut it up anymore, or skin it. If you get small young chickens, at about 3 pounds each, a quarter of a chicken could be a good meal, for a day. Maybe less, maybe a little more, depending on how much energy they spend. They will let you know if they are still hungry. If a quarter seems like it wasn't enough, let them try a half, and see how much they eat, or if it seems too much, take it away and give the rest the next feeding. See how the guess work goes away, just like the chicken?! You could try game hens if that is easier than cutting up chickens, you wouldn't have to cut those up at all, give the whole bird:) It's all trial and error, and with the dogs, you really can't muck it up too much, because they get to eat either way:)
Happy shopping.
Jeni

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Lyse

---------------------------------
Building a website is a piece of cake.
Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (8)
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9.1. Re: allergies
Posted by: "Penny (Nickles) Parker" loverladymaggiemae@yahoo.com loverladymaggiemae
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 8:17 am ((PDT))

>
> I've never heard of it either. But...not dealing with allergies much,
I
> wondered if a full blown allergic response could involve respiratory
> symptoms too. >
>
> > I don't think food allergies cause sneezing. > >

Food allergies CAN cause very serious respiratory problems for a
canine. I have one Cavalier that is very allergiec to wheat as
determined by the elimination diet. He coughs, sneezes, has runny eyes
and a difficult time breathing in general. I keep injectable benadryl
on hand in case he ever consumes wheat in any source by accident. It
also causes severe itching all over his body and swelling around his
mouth.
I agree that many allergies are enviornmental...both indoors and
outdoors. Finding the source can be very tedious.
Best wishes for your and your pal.
Penny

Messages in this topic (60)
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10. Starved Stray Food Suggestions
Posted by: "Ash" want4rain@yahoo.com want4rain
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 8:18 am ((PDT))

if you want to discuss any of this i will be on YIM tomorrow most of
the day.

THANK YOU and sorry thats so long. :)

-ashley
(BTW my first post!! YAY!! im not a lerker anymore!!)

Messages in this topic (1)
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11a. Re: Cutting up chicken
Posted by: "Marion" mbldesigns@yahoo.com mbldesigns
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 8:18 am ((PDT))

Thank you for your advice. We are feeding leg quarters, but we're
separating thighs and legs and backs so we can weigh it properly.
Bernie gets 7 ounces per meal and Connie gets 8 ounces per meal.
That equals about a thigh or a leg, but not both. We're trying to
keep on a budget, so we're weighing everything and everyone gets
their appropriate food weighed out to the ounce. Perhaps that isn't
such a good idea?

You're right, they do need to chew and I wish they would. So I
should stop cutting the leg quarters apart?

But how do I get the right amounts, like I said Bernie gets 7oz,
Connie 8oz, then Frankie 10 oz, Storm 12 oz, Duke 13 oz, Boston 14
oz, Badger 1 1/2 lbs, Felice 1 1/4 lbs. Each gets fed twice a day.
That totals about 100 lbs a week and with leg quarters is only $47.00
a week which is sooo good I'm liking that, but I can't keep having
Connie choking or not chewing and having us cut up his food (yup,
male named Connie, which is short for Constantine, he has a bit of an
identity crisis every now and then :) ). This cutting up thing is
going to get old really fast.

THanks,
Marion

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "carnesbill" <carnesw@...> wrote:

>
> Legs and thighs are ok for very small dogs. For medium to large
> dogs, backs and quarters should be the minimum size.
>
> Bill Carnes
> http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm
>
> Feeding Raw since October 2002
>
> "Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
> Dr. Tom Lonsdale
>

Messages in this topic (21)
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11b. Re: Cutting up chicken
Posted by: "brutus_buckley" brutus_buckley@yahoo.com brutus_buckley
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:28 am ((PDT))

//We are feeding leg quarters, but we're separating thighs and legs and
backs so we can weigh it properly. //

***Here's what I would do: weigh the whole item, figure out how many
meals worth it is and then feed it over time. For example, say the
whole leg quarter is 2 meals worth. Feed half at one meal, take it away
and offer it again the next meal. That way they benefit from working on
a larger piece.
-Renee W.

Messages in this topic (21)
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11c. Re: Cutting up chicken
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:28 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Marion" <mbldesigns@...> wrote:
>
> Thank you for your advice. We are feeding leg quarters, but we're
> separating thighs and legs and backs so we can weigh it properly.
> Bernie gets 7 ounces per meal and Connie gets 8 ounces per meal.
> That equals about a thigh or a leg, but not both.

> We're trying to
> keep on a budget, so we're weighing everything and everyone gets
> their appropriate food weighed out to the ounce. Perhaps
> that isn't such a good idea?

It's more detail than you need to go into. If one dog should get
7oz/meal, its ok to feed him 21oz over 3 meals or 42oz over 6
meals. Each meal doesn't need to be exactly 7oz. So, what I'm
getting at is feed the dog a quarter over several meals. Doesn't
matter if he gets exactly the same amount each meal.

> You're right, they do need to chew and I wish they would. So I
> should stop cutting the leg quarters apart?

Yes, do as I suggest above.

> But how do I get the right amounts,

Feed each dog his quarter. Keep them in labeled baggies in the
fridge. Figure how many meals a quarter will make and feed it that
many times. BTW: you will continuously be adjusting volumes anyway
as the dogs get fatter or thinner. The EXACT amount is no more
critical for your dogs as it is for you to eat exactly the same
volume.

> but I can't keep having
> Connie choking or not chewing and having us cut up his food.

Feed him whole quarters and it should take care of that problem.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (21)
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11d. Re: Cutting up chicken
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:50 am ((PDT))

I agree, stop cutting the quarters for your dogs. There is no need
to figure out how much each dog should or does eat to the ounce. My
advice, switch to once a day feedings and feed whole quarters. If
they leave anything over, pick it up for the next day. If they start
getting fat/thin, add more food. It really can be as easy as that.

Also, work on finding other sources of food (and don't forget the
organs). You really want more variety than a diet of chicken a la
chicken. For now it is fine, but make sure you are looking for other
sources!

Andrea

Messages in this topic (21)
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12. more victories for Raw
Posted by: "cinjoel" cinjoel@yahoo.com cinjoel
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 8:19 am ((PDT))

Well, I'm happy to report I've turned 3 more families over to raw!
I'm so excited...that makes 6 healthier dogs :) Ok I'm done bragging.

I know they need to start adding some bone...what do you think about
chicken necks? any suggestions? The pups are 8 weeks old now.

Thanks
Cindy

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13a. question and funny story
Posted by: "moniquemcelwee" moniquemcelwee@hotmail.com moniquemcelwee
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 8:20 am ((PDT))

Hi All-

I have been feeding my new Belgian Sheepdog puppy raw for two
weeks. He is 11 weeks old today. My question is this--any ideas of
why his urine would be burning the yard? Our mini shnauzer's
doesn't, and she's fed the same way. So far, I've been feeding him
chicken parts, organs etc.

Also, a funny story which may be off topic, but is raw feeding
related. Yesterday, I thought I'd let my new pup try fish for the
first time. I had a whole tilapia, minus the organs but with the
head. Since it was a bit big, I cut off the head and put it in his
bowl. He cocked his head (which is very cute right now as he only
has one ear up) and studied it for a awhile, then let out one little
bark. I think he thought it would play with him! I had to get our
shnauzer to show him what to do with it!

Thanks!

Monique

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13b. Re: question and funny story
Posted by: "Sonja" ladyver@sbcglobal.net lonepalm77
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:33 am ((PDT))

I think the tendency to burn grass has more to do with individual dogs than it does with diet or gender (although in some cases I'm sure it could be affected by either of those two things). I always thought female dogs had a tendency to burn grass, but my female Lab doesn't burn it and our male shepherd has what we've coined "nuclear pee"....that's how fast and horribly it burns the grass!

I haven't done any research on it, but that's my take on it.

Sonja

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14a. first time to Asian market now with questions
Posted by: "Joanne Bartling" hjbartling@comcast.net hjbartling
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:27 am ((PDT))

Today was my first visit to an Asian market. Now I see where you guys all
get the variety. :-) Saw many different things, but unsure what would be
good purchases. Let's see....there were the normal type of meet that I know
is good but how about...beef tendons, pork snouts, pig ears, pig stomach,
oxtail (not cut but looked more like a large bone) goat (one looked like a
leg and some other skin and meat?)

Joanne

http://www.pbase.com/hjbartling

http://hjbartling.dotphoto.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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14b. Re: first time to Asian market now with questions
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:52 am ((PDT))

Hi, Joanne, it's fun to find new things, hun?

> beef tendons, pork snouts, pig ears

These are great chewies, but not much in the way of a meal. My boys
love raw pig ears.

> pig stomach

This has been sanitized for human consumption. Not much use for raw
feeding.

> oxtail (not cut but looked more like a large bone)

Good workout item, and with added meatymeat would probably make a
good meal.

> goat (one looked like a leg and some other skin and meat?)

Yes, and yes. Goat is a favorite around here! This is a good find
if it isn't expensive!

Andrea

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15a. Re: Cheap meat sources, and an egg question
Posted by: "chele519" chele519@yahoo.com chele519
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:50 am ((PDT))

This would be my suggestion too. I just got 2 turkeys, some roasts,
some ground beef. For my smaller dog, enough for a couple months with
the turkeys. Good luck, I hope it works out for you.
Michele

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Hllywoodcaper7@... wrote:

> Do you have a local freecycle group? >
> Freecycle (yahoo group) in your area may have people who would give
you old
> and freezer burned meat too. HTH! Tamatha ;)
>

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