Feed Pets Raw Food: Aug 30, 2007

Thursday, August 30, 2007

[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11981

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1.1. Re: Confused
From: johkemp
1.2. Re: Confused
From: johkemp

2a. Re: Dog not wanting to eat pork necks
From: Morledzep@aol.com
2b. Re: Dog not wanting to eat pork necks
From: vickies_28
2c. Re: Dog not wanting to eat pork necks
From: costrowski75

3a. Re: Neyla won't eat lamb neck bones anymore - help!
From: Alisha Johnson

4. Update on Shiba new to raw w/gastric upset
From: soyviz

5. A little panicky re: pup with diahrrea
From: K Carolyn Ramamurti

6a. Re: where to feed dogs
From: Pamela Picard
6b. Re: where to feed dogs
From: Shannon Parker
6c. Re: where to feed dogs
From: Laurie Swanson

7a. New and with issues
From: Anita

8a. problem with pooped out bone
From: nat_franc
8b. Re: problem with pooped out bone
From: Sandee Lee

9. Who on this list has been feeding RAW for many years?
From: coriowen

10. My intro...
From: Valerie

11a. weight
From: schottscrazyzoo
11b. Re: weight
From: Laurie Swanson
11c. Re: weight
From: costrowski75
11d. Re: weight
From: Sandee Lee

12a. Re: vet says Yeay to rawfeeding
From: costrowski75

13. I need to find a Holistic Vet in the Dallas area....
From: coriowen

14a. Re: Different types of meat
From: linoleum5017

15a. Re: Intro - Newbie
From: linoleum5017

16. introduced pork today...question
From: lar07911

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1.1. Re: Confused
Posted by: "johkemp" johkemp@yahoo.com.au johkemp
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 5:22 pm ((PDT))

Hi Jody,

There are as many different ideas about feeding dogs as there are about
people diets! That said I think that Tom Lonsdale is a god!!

I don't feed my dog vegetables as part of her normal diet but she does
raid the scraps we give to the rabbits. She also eats strawberries out
of the garden and loves apple core. We look at it as she enjoys it as
a treat and she is choosing to eat it so why stress about it.

From memory Billinghurst refers to dogs as omnivores so that rings
alarm bells to start with. He is trying to sell books and expensive
pre made mush - just make friends with your butcher!

Jo
>

Messages in this topic (30)
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1.2. Re: Confused
Posted by: "johkemp" johkemp@yahoo.com.au johkemp
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 5:27 pm ((PDT))

I forgot to mention the teeth question in my other post!!

If it was my dog I would have his teeth cleaned by the vet.
Periodontal disease can have far reaching health effects so get them
cleaned and any pulled if necessary. Then you can start the raw diet
with a fresh slate (clean mouth?) and he probably won't need
professional teeth cleaning done again. He will be doing it himself
every day BUT only if you skip the patties and feed chunks of meat and
meaty bones. A prey model diet is not only for nutrition but for the
health of your dogs' teeth, jaw and gums too.

Messages in this topic (30)
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2a. Re: Dog not wanting to eat pork necks
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 5:31 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 8/30/2007 9:59:14 AM Pacific Standard Time,
vickies_28@yahoo.com writes:

He will eat the meat chunks of
pork just fine with great appetite, but if I give him a port neck or
sholder, whatever has bone in it - he would just look at it funny,
sniff it, leak it and eventually in about 10 min start eating it. But
then will not finish it alghouth seems hungry. I don't think it's the
chewing problem,, since he is chewing on sticks and other hard things
like there is no tomorrow.

Vickie,

pups often lose their baby teeth right around 4 - 5 months.. and their teeth
are a little more sensitive.. my akita pup figured out how to eat everything
except the bone when i fed them ducks while she was teething. She ate meat ok,
but would not tough bone at all for about 5 weeks..

we endured, she started eating bones again in a few weeks and everything is
fne.

Catherine R.

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Messages in this topic (10)
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2b. Re: Dog not wanting to eat pork necks
Posted by: "vickies_28" vickies_28@yahoo.com vickies_28
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 6:11 pm ((PDT))

Chris, thanks for your feedback. He has been eating raw ever since we
got him - about 3 weeks. He just ate a chicken thight/leg, I think it
might've been a quarter, but he ate it with great appetite and didn't
put it down once- all gone.
I will hold off wtih pork bones for now, and try other meats like
turkey necks. I wanted to give him beef but wasn't sure what part to
buy.
Also today my husband told me he yelped and asked to be taken out and
there he ate some grass and threw up a little bit. Just bile no food.
I know it's not a big deal for them to throw up,unless it's food that
comes out, but just curious could port be too fatty for him and
that's why he threw up and didn't really want to eat too much of it.
He seems to be very smart in what/how much he needs to eat.
He plain refused to eat kibble when we got him. Went with no food for
3 days straight.
Vickie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "costrowski75" <Chriso75@...>
wrote:
>
> "vickies_28" <vickies_28@> wrote:
> >> Should I try any other bones? I want him to enjoy the bones like
all
> > dogs do, not stare at it.
> *****
> Yes, try other bones. Pork necks are not very meaty, pork feet are
I
> think daunting to many dogs at first. You may have simply chosen a
> couple of difficult pork representatives. You might try a slab
(mini
> or whole) of spare ribs, you might try pork brisket bone (aka
riblets):
> both have more meat than the neck and both are more accomodating
than a
> foot.
>
> You could try a turkey thigh or neck (depending on his ability when
he
> gets going a neck may or may not be useful); also unless you have
> sampled all the possible chicken parts, give him a more complicated
> body part. Having to adjust to a new presentation of something
he's
> comfortable with may inspire him.
>
> How long has he been eating raw?
> Chris O
>

Messages in this topic (10)
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2c. Re: Dog not wanting to eat pork necks
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 8:16 pm ((PDT))

"vickies_28" <vickies_28@...> wrote:
>He just ate a chicken thight/leg, I think it
> might've been a quarter, but he ate it with great appetite and
didn't
> put it down once- all gone.
*****
A leg quarter is probably more user-friendly than a pork neck.
Perhaps he just has to grow a bit more. Some pups are like that.

> I will hold off wtih pork bones for now, and try other meats like
> turkey necks. I wanted to give him beef but wasn't sure what part
to
> buy.
*****
Adding beef meat is a fine idea; I recommend you not worry about beef
bones for the time being if at all. Just grab whatever cheap beef
you find and feed it with a chicken part...or even all by its
lonesome.

> Also today my husband told me he yelped and asked to be taken out
and
> there he ate some grass and threw up a little bit.
*****
Hard to know why he yelped or vomited. The two behaviors are not
generally connected in terms of food. A bee sting or insect bite
maybe. Are you really really sure there's nothing wrong with the
kid's mouth?

just curious could port be too fatty for him and
> that's why he threw up and didn't really want to eat too much of
it.
*****
Anything's possible but generally speaking a poor response to fat is
demonstrated by loose stools. What you describe doesn't sound like
fat intolerance. If there was a problem with the fat he would have
vomited up the fatty meat. Bile vomit without food usually indicates
an empty stomach.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (10)
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3a. Re: Neyla won't eat lamb neck bones anymore - help!
Posted by: "Alisha Johnson" charlieschoicetreatco@yahoo.ca charlieschoicetreatco
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 5:44 pm ((PDT))

Perhaps she has a slab fracture in one of her carnasials which are her "crushing teeth" and when she chews it hurts. A quick check by a vet(provided the dog will let them look) should let you know.
Cheers,
Alisha

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Messages in this topic (5)
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4. Update on Shiba new to raw w/gastric upset
Posted by: "soyviz" soyviz@yahoo.com soyviz
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 6:14 pm ((PDT))

Per the helpful responses to my last msg, I have fed Thelma chicken parts with bone for 4
days (she fasted one day after the barf/poop/barf/poop cycle). Today she gave me solid (but
not too hard) poops! I was so relieved...I now have a copy of Work Wonders and will follow
the posts. Thank you very much for the reassuring and helpful responses to my previous
msg.

Best,
Aisha O.

Messages in this topic (1)
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5. A little panicky re: pup with diahrrea
Posted by: "K Carolyn Ramamurti" lilith23360@yahoo.com lilith23360
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 7:07 pm ((PDT))

YAHOO.Shortcuts.hasSensitiveText = true; YAHOO.Shortcuts.sensitivityType = ["sensitive_news_terms", "adult"]; YAHOO.Shortcuts.doUlt = false; YAHOO.Shortcuts.location = "us"; YAHOO.Shortcuts.lang = "us"; YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_id = 0; YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_type = ""; YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_title = ""; YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_publish_date = ""; YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_author = ""; YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_url = ""; YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_tags = ""; YAHOO.Shortcuts.annotationSet = { "lw_1188524500_0": { "text": "Seattle", "extended": 0, "startchar": 2294, "endchar": 2300, "start": 2294, "end": 2300, "extendedFrom": "", "predictedCategory": "PLACE", "predictionProbability": "0.996982", "weight": 0.35, "type": ["shortcuts:/us/instance/place/destination", "shortcuts:/us/instance/place/us/town"], "category": ["PLACE"], "context": " Thanks in advance, Carolyn Ramamurti in Seattle Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play" }, "lw_1188524500_1": { "text":
"Yahoo! Games", "extended": 0, "startchar": 2605, "endchar": 2616, "start": 2605, "end": 2616, "extendedFrom": "", "predictedCategory": "PLACE", "predictionProbability": "0.668415", "weight": 0.35, "type": ["shortcuts:/us/instance/organization/company/yahoo_property"], "category": ["ORGANIZATION"], "context": " and Now (it\x27s updated for today\x27s economy) at Yahoo! Games. ", "metaData": { "yprop_name": "Yahoo! Games", "yprop_url": "http://games.yahoo.com/" } } }; YAHOO.Shortcuts.overlaySpaceId = "97546169"; YAHOO.Shortcuts.hostSpaceId = "97546168"; I have been raw feeding for about nine months, ever since these pups came home, and have never had to deal with diarrhea (so I guess I'm lucky, shouldn't worry and I'm overdue!)

One of my pups "threw up bile", per a description of a family member (I didn't see it) this morning. This afternoon, she has diahrrea -- not able to make it to the door.

I probably would have taken her to her vet who approves of raw feeding, but his office is now closed and the emergency vet is one of those who will blame everything on raw (and probably call the Humane Society to report me for animal abuse/neglect).

She had beef (some meaty cut, I can't recall the name of it, but no bones) yesterday evening and ate very little (if they got to decide, my dogs would have a diet of 80% bone and 20% meat and organs). She had more of the same beef this morning.

I probably would be less worried if this were my little "chunk" dog, who eats very little but gains weight on it; this is my "skinny Minnie" who eats a ton and is tiny, tiny, tiny.

Thanks in advance,

Carolyn Ramamurti in Seattle

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Messages in this topic (1)
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6a. Re: where to feed dogs
Posted by: "Pamela Picard" pet.wellness@yahoo.com pet.wellness
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 7:07 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "swilken61" <powrfemme@...> wrote:
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> Any tips on how to keep the dogs from running all over the house with
> their food? My kitchen has two entrances that are too wide for even
> the largest ready made baby gate. The dogs like eat on the couch,
> that is where, prior to eating raw, they would chew their bully
> sticks. If they have any large bones, that's where they head. This ***

Hi, we use a few terry cloth bath sheets I've had 20 years, folded
once and placed on the floor. He eats by my bedside in the morning,
while I work. In the evening, he eats at my feet while I watch TV.
When he's done, I throw it into the wash.

Pamela Picard
http://www.pet-wellness-update.com
http://aimees-law.blogspot.com/
aimees_law-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

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Messages in this topic (10)
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6b. Re: where to feed dogs
Posted by: "Shannon Parker" mrbatisse@yahoo.ca mrbatisse
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 7:27 pm ((PDT))

Hi Stephany,

Okay first of all, i agree with all of the others that ew...gross Bully sticks on the couch!!!!!! You know what they are, right? Oh, and the smell...dear lord, couldn't imagine having that in the same place I relax. So, having said that...I live in apartment and do not have the luxury of taking my dogs outside to eat. I baby gate one of my dogs into the hallway, and the other just eats on the spot on the kitchen floor. At first they both tried to take their food onto to their respective dog beds, but after repeatedly taking the food back to their bowls they learned. It didn't take that much time either. If you would like, you can put a towel down so that they learn to associate the towel with the feeding spot. Be consistent and don't let them get away with taking the food somewhere else. They will learn in no time.
Good luck!

Shannon

swilken61 <powrfemme@aol.com> wrote:
The dogs like eat on the couch,
that is where, prior to eating raw, they would chew their bully
sticks. If they have any large bones, that's where they head. This is
something I'd like to stop if possible. So far I cover the couch with
towels before I feed them, and I do have a slipcover, but I am
foreseeing a lot of laundry in my life.

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Messages in this topic (10)
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6c. Re: where to feed dogs
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 8:16 pm ((PDT))

Well, Bugs brings the bully into my lap and I sit there and hold it for
him while he chews on it! :-)

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Shannon Parker <mrbatisse@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Stephany,
>
> Okay first of all, i agree with all of the others that ew...gross
Bully sticks on the couch!!!!!! You know what they are, right? Oh,
and the smell...dear lord, couldn't imagine having that in the same
place I relax.

Messages in this topic (10)
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7a. New and with issues
Posted by: "Anita" craftyhoosiermama@gmail.com anita42776
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 7:08 pm ((PDT))

> I think pet food companies have been good at conditioning us, ie a
dog must have this, that.....

Yeah, exactly!

Messages in this topic (4)
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8a. problem with pooped out bone
Posted by: "nat_franc" chickenchucker@gmail.com nat_franc
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 7:26 pm ((PDT))

history: atticus, 7mo boxer, had an acute attack of pancreatitis and
IBD compounded with a bone obstruction that required surgery 3 1/2
weeks ago. i started to ease him back onto raw last night, double
ground skinless leg quarters. he has eaten 4 meals of about half
cooked bone in leg quarters and half ground raw. i was all happy
because things were going well. well, tonight he did looser that
usual poop FULL of ground bone pieces, now i am not worried about the
bone as i double ground it and the pieces were very small. and i
added Prozyme to each meal he had. but that poop had a ton of bone
in it, which means he is not digesting very well. the only medication
he is on is clindamyacine (sp?) supplements: fish oil, vit.E, ester C,
L-glutamine, and L-lysine, oh and benadryl and robitussin, for his
allergies and bronchitis.
help!

natalie

Messages in this topic (2)
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8b. Re: problem with pooped out bone
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 8:28 pm ((PDT))

Probably too much bone. You are not really feeding cooked bone, are you?
I'm not exactly sure what you are cooking and what you are grinding.

Nevertheless, I would stop grinding, feed less bone and add a good digestive
or pancreatic enzyme designed to digest protein and fat. Prozyme only works
on carbohydrates and can cause digestive upsets.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "nat_franc" <chickenchucker@gmail.com>

Messages in this topic (2)
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9. Who on this list has been feeding RAW for many years?
Posted by: "coriowen" COwen98@aol.com coriowen
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 7:27 pm ((PDT))

I know we have several on this list that are tremendous helps and THANK
YOU! I am in my second week with my girls and I don't ever see myself
ever going back to kibble. My two Dachshunds are young, one is 2 3/4
years and the other is 10 mos and my Mastiff and Doberman will be 5 in
a few months. They are getting a pretty good shot at starting Raw
feeding at young ages and for the big girls, fairly young ages. Are
there any stats as to the added longivity to lifespan on Raw Fed Dogs?
I know I read about the dog in Austrailia that was 27 or 29 in like
2005 or something and all he has ever eaten was wild prey diet in the
outback. If there is more info can someone direct me to it? I
appreciate it. I think that is what we are all striving for,
healthier, happier pets that have the chance to live longer than the
usual 12-15 years. I do know a lady that feeds raw and her Dachshund
is 20 years old. Very impressive. =)
Cori and my girls =)

Messages in this topic (1)
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10. My intro...
Posted by: "Valerie" valdeere@msn.com vahl0426
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 7:56 pm ((PDT))

Hi everyone! I just wanted to take a moment to introduce myself (I
couldn't help but post a real message previously). My name is Val and
I own a nearly two year old Great Pyrenees male (Zuke) and a nearly
one year old black lab-mix female (Louise).

At about 7 months of age, my Pyrenees, Zuke came down with
Panosteitis. At the time, I thought I was feeding him a good quality
food but Pano is so painful, it led me to start looking into the
ingredients in the food I was feeding him. Soooo, I switched him to
what I thought was a better food and the symptoms faded rapidly.

Now here I am a year later, and my Zuke has been on prednisone since
Monday to treat some terribly itchy skin on his face and feet. I
dislike using any kind of medication if at all possible. I would
rather prevent than treat. I have to say though, that Zuke was so
miserable, at least the prednisone is working. I don't think he's
allergic to his food, but this has me looking again at what I am
feeding.

I want what is best for both of my dogs, but I know that I need to
educate myself before I jump right in to raw feeding. I am here so
that I can learn and understand.

Even so, I'm already thinking about what is available here locally (I
pretty much live in a small town that is just about in the middle of
nowhere). Is it safe to feed venison and pheasant?

Anyway, I will close this. I look forward to talking with everyone
and thank you all in advance for your patience with the questions I
will likely be asking. By the way, I've been looking into all the
links on the group page...a lot of good info!

Valerie

Messages in this topic (1)
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11a. weight
Posted by: "schottscrazyzoo" schottscrazyzoo@yahoo.com schottscrazyzoo
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 7:56 pm ((PDT))

Has anyone that has been on RAW an extended time noticed weight
gain/loss. Thank You Brady

Messages in this topic (4)
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11b. Re: weight
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 8:17 pm ((PDT))

Seems like most dogs balance out if fed the right amount--they lose if
they need to or gain if they need to. What's the particular
situation/question?

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "schottscrazyzoo"
<schottscrazyzoo@...> wrote:
>
> Has anyone that has been on RAW an extended time noticed weight
> gain/loss. Thank You Brady
>

Messages in this topic (4)
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11c. Re: weight
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 8:22 pm ((PDT))

"schottscrazyzoo" <schottscrazyzoo@...> wrote:
>
> Has anyone that has been on RAW an extended time noticed weight
> gain/loss.
*****
Do you mean unexpected weight gain/loss? No.
Do you mean intentional and appropriate weight gain/loss? Yes.

I have always seen a direct relationship between amount of food fed (or
type of food fed) and weight gain/loss/maintenance.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (4)
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11d. Re: weight
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 8:24 pm ((PDT))

Weight is pretty easy to maintain depending on amount fed. If a dog is
gaining, decrease the food...if losing, increase! Why do you ask?

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "schottscrazyzoo" <schottscrazyzoo@yahoo.com>

Has anyone that has been on RAW an extended time noticed weight
gain/loss. Thank You Brady

Messages in this topic (4)
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12a. Re: vet says Yeay to rawfeeding
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 8:00 pm ((PDT))

"johkemp" <johkemp@...> wrote:
>
> How about I change
> it to "this includes chunks of meat, offal and the occasional table
> scraps?"
*****
It's important to keep a lot of meat on the menu. However you want to
arrange the words is fine by me.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (13)
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13. I need to find a Holistic Vet in the Dallas area....
Posted by: "coriowen" COwen98@aol.com coriowen
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 8:17 pm ((PDT))

I actually live SE of Dallas, out near Canton. If anyone knows of one
closer to Rockwall, or Mesquite or one that is in the Easern side of
Dallas, I would really appreciate the recommendation. I found a site
to check for holistic vets in different states/cities and not many came
up, so I thought I would ask. I would like a vet that will accept a
Raw Fed dog and doesn't try to lecture you about the dog being fed
Raw. I had a vet try to discourage me on feeding raw but it was a no
go. I have a distrust with a vet that wants to look at the negative of
feeding raw and is close minded about it. BTW, he is an older man and
very set in his ways. I have a younger Dachshund that needs to be
spayed ASAP and I would like her to go to a holistic vet so they won't
try to feed her kibble or canned crap after surgery EVEN if I tell them
DO NOT FEED KIBBLE! Thanks in advance, if anyone can help.
Cori

Messages in this topic (1)
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14a. Re: Different types of meat
Posted by: "linoleum5017" linoleum5017@yahoo.com linoleum5017
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 8:17 pm ((PDT))

Cynthia,

Another person from this list and I split a goat order.... I have not
noticed any foul smell. Neither has she reported one. Perhaps you got
a bad lot, or your dog does not agree with goat meat.

Regarding cats - sounds like the baby 'chicks' are a big hit! To
convince my cat to eat raw, I fed a little of the food he liked,
(ki**le,) but not enough to fill him up. Under his desired food was
the rawmeat, and since he was still hungry when he ran out of his
desired food, he kept on going to eat the rawfood. I decreased the
ki**le a little each day, so that now he only eats rawfood.

I love the thought that we are conversing from the USA to the
Netherlands. Many good wishes to you!

Lynne

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "cynthiabooijblommers"
<cynthiabooijblommers@...> wrote:
>
> Hello,
> I'm new to this list and have been feeding raw since januari of this
year. I've found that when they get goat....they reek, I really mean
smell, from their mouth to their stool. Is that normal??

> Secondly, I've got 2 cats, whom I want to switch over also....
What's best to start with? I have some baby chickens (not sure of
English word, lol) frozen, which they do seem to like, but they just
refuse to eat the chicken I left out for them.

> HELP.... I really want them off kibble, but they aren't coöperating

Messages in this topic (3)
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15a. Re: Intro - Newbie
Posted by: "linoleum5017" linoleum5017@yahoo.com linoleum5017
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 8:44 pm ((PDT))

***MODERATOR'S NOTE: PLEASE TRIM YOUR MESSAGES.***

Brandi,

I am so proud of you!!!! Sounds like you've caught on. Hoping the
affordable rawfood is becoming available???

Good suggestions below. Just wanted to encourage your heart - way
to go!!!

Lynne

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Brandi Bryant" <bbryant573@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi, I kinda new also, but I've learned A LOT from this group and
yes
> you made the right choice by joining! They're GREAT!
>
> They will tell you to start out with chicken - whole chickens cut
them
> into portions and feed them to your dogs. Or anything chicken
> breasts, leg quarters, thighs. Stay on chicken for a good week or
> two, if they're doing alright with that then you can add another
> protein - like turkey or pork.
>
> Feed twice a day, if not once is alright. You want to feed 2 - 3%
of
> your dogs body weight - if they are skinny feed a little more or if
> they are "fluffy" as they call it here feed them less. You want to
> feed 80% meat, 10% bone and 10% organ. Be careful with organs -
liver
> is better (did i get that right, guys?) - heart is great for
them ???
> when giving organs for the first time only little bits at a time.
It
> can cause diaherra if you give too much.
>
> Have left anything out? If I have they will fill in the blanks or
> give you more information along with what i just gave you.
>
> OH, and they will tell you not to think so much!!!
>
> Hang in there, good luck
> Brandi
> Bartlesville, OK
>
>

Messages in this topic (6)
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16. introduced pork today...question
Posted by: "lar07911" lar07911@yahoo.com lar07911
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 8:45 pm ((PDT))

Her stool was fine and she took to it quite well. I fed her a chicken
quarter in the morning and took it away when she was finished. She
left a good portion of the leg, so I figured it would be a good time
to add pork to her next meal. It was just a little bit of pork meat
because the chicken leg had a lot of bone in it.

Because of my schedule...before I fed raw...I was feeding kibble+can
in the morning and the same again around 5-5:30. This time I fed her
second meal closer to 2am.

Tonight she threw up bone fragments with bile. Is this just because
her stomach was used to the feeding schedule?
Thanks,
Laura

Messages in this topic (1)
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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11980

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: The Care and Feeding of Mastiffs
From: mgitaville
1b. Re: The Care and Feeding of Mastiffs
From: mgitaville
1c. Re: Amount to Feed
From: cynthia iparraguirre
1d. Re: Amount to Feed
From: Olga

2a. Re: where to feed dogs
From: S.R. Sudekum
2b. Re: where to feed dogs
From: Lisa

3. Buying group in the Twin Cities? (MN)
From: Mary Whetsel

4a. Re: pork
From: Laurie Swanson

5a. 10 mo Dane
From: karimlizette
5b. Re: 10 mo Dane
From: Sandee Lee
5c. Re: 10 mo Dane
From: costrowski75

6a. Re: feeding mostly chicken
From: Sue
6b. Re: feeding mostly chicken
From: Laurie Swanson

7a. Re: Dog not wanting to eat pork necks
From: vickies_28
7b. Re: Dog not wanting to eat pork necks
From: vickies_28
7c. Re: Dog not wanting to eat pork necks
From: costrowski75

8a. Re: not eating enough
From: blue eyed

9a. Re: Intro - Newbie
From: Renate Hotchkiss

10a. New and with issues
From: blue eyed

11. thanks ane new puppy
From: Mary

12a. Re: Need support on raw feeding
From: johkemp

13a. Re: Vet disagrees with raw
From: johkemp

14. Thyroid/Valley Fever/Glucosamine
From: my3jcs

15a. Re: vet says Yeay to rawfeeding
From: johkemp

16.1. Re: Why not to feed raw with kibble
From: Kathleen

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Re: The Care and Feeding of Mastiffs
Posted by: "mgitaville" mgitaville@hotmail.com mgitaville
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:09 pm ((PDT))

>
> Yes, 4lbs for an 80# pup is too much. You should aim to start
> between 2%-3% of his body weight which in this case is equal to
> roughly 1.5lb to 2.4 lbs. I would lean closer to 2-2.5lbs personally
> given a pups have a pretty good metabolism generally at 7 months.

*****Well, clearly I wasn't paying attention to my own post as I wrote
it. I spoke of him being a puppy in one breath and then completely
forgot that fact as I wrote about the correct amount to feed. The post
that followed corrected my oversight....

It should be 2-3% of his full grown adult weight.

Marguerita

Messages in this topic (12)
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1b. Re: The Care and Feeding of Mastiffs
Posted by: "mgitaville" mgitaville@hotmail.com mgitaville
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:10 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "costrowski75" <Chriso75@...> wrote:
>
> "mgitaville" <mgitaville@> wrote:
> >
> > *****Yes, 4lbs for an 80# pup is too much. You should aim to start
> > between 2%-3% of his body weight which in this case is equal to
> > roughly 1.5lb to 2.4 lbs. I would lean closer to 2-2.5lbs
> personally
> > given a pups have a pretty good metabolism generally at 7 months.
> *****
> Now hold on. If the adult dog will weigh 200lb, then four pounds is
> two percent of adult weight and there's nothing wrong with that. And
> there's no question that a Mastiff ain't gonna grow up small.
>

****Chris, you beat me to it before I could correct my own mistake.
After I posted this I realized I was forgetting the part about the dog
being a pup when calculating the percentages. OOPS! Raw 101 overlooked!

Marguerita

Messages in this topic (12)
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1c. Re: Amount to Feed
Posted by: "cynthia iparraguirre" cyn7711@yahoo.com cyn7711
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:28 pm ((PDT))

Hi,
I'm fairly new at this and I was wondering if how much to feed my 70 lb, 14 month lab? I have heard 2-3% of their body weight, but is that daily amount or each individual meal should be 2-3% of their weight?

Also, lately she has not been carring much for raw, to the point that she will go for 2-3 days without eating, and when it begins to worry me I feed her organic raw food (w/no bi-products, or grains), I'm not sure what do.

Cyn

Inside every older person there is a younger person wondering, "What the heck happened?"

---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (12)
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1d. Re: Amount to Feed
Posted by: "Olga" olga.drozd@gmail.com olga_d
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:44 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, cynthia iparraguirre <cyn7711@...>
wrote:
> I'm fairly new at this and I was wondering if how much to feed my
> 70 lb, 14 month lab? I have heard 2-3% of their body weight, but is
> that daily amount or each individual meal should be 2-3% of their
> weight?

This is a daily amount. If you were feeding two meals a day, you
would add both meals to get that amount. Although at 14 months there
is no need to feed twice a day, and I would definitely suggest
switching to one.

> Also, lately she has not been carring much for raw, to the point
> that she will go for 2-3 days without eating, and when it begins to
> worry me I feed her organic raw food (w/no bi-products, or grains),

Switching to one meal a day will help with that because she will be
more hungry at meal time and more willing to eat. Also, what are you
feeding? Is it a pre-made ground food? Does it have veggies? If
yes, that might be your answer right there.

How is her weight? How does she act, does she have energy?

Olga

Messages in this topic (12)
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2a. Re: where to feed dogs
Posted by: "S.R. Sudekum" ssudekum@centurytel.net fassue
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:12 pm ((PDT))

mgitaville wrote:
>
> ****Agree completely with this post. I think it is important to
> condition dogs to having an "eating place" for many purposes, but in
> particular when having a multiple dog home. With each dog having
> their own place to eat it helps them resist temptations to check out
> the other's food.
>
> Marguerita

That's exactly how I have it arranged for my three. The Dalmatian eats
in my office (she heads straight for it when dinner time rolls around
and dances until she gets her food, lol), the older Corgi eats down in
the Rec room, and the young Corgi is just learning that the spare
bedroom is HIS 'den' for dinner.

I used to give my now-deceased Corgi male his chicken leg quarter, and
tell him to "go to your room!", and he'd merrily trot through the house
into "his" room (the spare bedroom), but would wait until I closed the
door before starting to eat...he was worried the others might try to
take his food away from him.

Funny how they develop their little habits.

Sue in Michigan

Messages in this topic (7)
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2b. Re: where to feed dogs
Posted by: "Lisa" courteouscanines640@yahoo.com courteouscanines640
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:33 pm ((PDT))

Since my dogs are not "full-time" raw, I have a nice system in place
for when they do get RMB's, which is currently 3-4 times a week, in
the evenings after 6.
I line up all six dogs out on the grass in our backyard, which is
hilariously "astro-turf" as that is a miracle surface for high-drive
agility/herding dogs, and they each are in a down stay 10 feet apart.
They pretty much know when their bone is dropped in front of them that
they have to stay put and not run off. I have three acres here so if
one took off in any direction, I could not very well supervise.
Just in case, I slide down the dog door blocker after learning a gross
lesson last week: Myles, my youngest Aussie, decided I was not
watching close enough and that he could sneak by with bone in mouth to
his favorite spot on the couch in the living room! The little
stinker! Luckily there was no stain or anything because I quickly
escorted him back outside.
While they are eating, I fit in some much needed down time with a good
book or even some internet-surfing, while still in view of my
meat-hungry pups. My rescues-in-training are also treated to some
smaller RMB's, but they eat theirs in their appropriate kennel runs.
The only thing I hate about that set-up is that the bones leave a
residue on the ground that the ants just love to come enjoy, so I have
to do a bit more clean-up than I would like.

I would say the best possible place for eating a time-consuming bone
or meal is in a grassy area, and if your dogs do not have as stellar a
recall or stay down as possible, clip on a long-line leash and attach
it to something sturdy so the dog has to stay near the grass and can't
run off with the bone.

And I would NEVER ever let my dogs eat a bully stick on the couch!
Sorry, that kinda grossed me out. I mean, I would hate to tell a
guest, oh yes, please sit down on my dog's dinner table!

Lisa and her Eight.

Messages in this topic (7)
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3. Buying group in the Twin Cities? (MN)
Posted by: "Mary Whetsel" chickiboo@gmail.com cooljavachic
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 2:06 pm ((PDT))

Hi,

I just caught mention in another post of local buying groups, which
sounds marvelous. So now I'm wondering if there is one in my area.
How do you find one of these? Is anyone else on the list in MN?

-Mary

Messages in this topic (1)
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4a. Re: pork
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 2:06 pm ((PDT))

Hi Linda,

Depends on how much fat your dogs can tolerate without getting
loose/runny stool. You might want to start by trimming the fat and see
how they do and later you can leave some/all of it on as they progress
well. My dog still can't do lots of fat.

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Linda H. Gower <pudeltime@...> wrote:
> Upon hacking it into chunks I realized just how fatty it was
underneath. Is it best for me to carve some of that fat off, or what?
We're talking close to an inch layer of fat with just a thin ribbon of
meat thru it.
>

Messages in this topic (22)
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5a. 10 mo Dane
Posted by: "karimlizette" karimlizette@gmail.com karimlizette
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 2:09 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Bronco has been on RAW for about 1 1/2 wk. He is still on whole
chickens that I have quartered. My question is I know you are supposed
to raise the food bowl to prevent Bloat but when I place his bowl on a
chair he will go to it take a piece out and place it on the floor and
eat standing up or sometimes if he's really feeling lazy he will lay
down with it and eat. He still hasnt really warmed up to eating the
chicken, and I am jealous reading that some others on this site really
eat their food with GUSTO! Nice, not Bronco though. He goes up to it
and sniffs and when he gets around to it he will take a piece out like
I said before. Should i be worried?
Thanks,
Karim

Messages in this topic (3)
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5b. Re: 10 mo Dane
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 2:19 pm ((PDT))

Karin,

I wouldn't be worried...sounds like he is eating, right? You may need to
begin adding some other foods. Maybe that will perk him up.

Just feed him on the floor and let him chose how to eat...my Danes most
often eat laying down. That is a normal eating position.

The bloat studies revealed that dogs fed from elevated bowls bloated at a
higher rate than those who did not eat from elevated bowls so don't worry
about that aspect.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "karimlizette" <karimlizette@gmail.com>

Messages in this topic (3)
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5c. Re: 10 mo Dane
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 3:54 pm ((PDT))

"karimlizette" <karimlizette@...> wrote:
> My question is I know you are supposed
> to raise the food bowl to prevent Bloat but when I place his bowl on
a
> chair he will go to it take a piece out and place it on the floor and
> eat standing up or sometimes if he's really feeling lazy he will lay
> down with it and eat.
*****
That's cuz a. there is no need to feed with a raised dish (studies
indicate dish height does not affect incidence of bloat and b. he's
smart enough to know that eating should be way more natural than from
bowls.

I suggest you use the bowl only when you are feeding sloppy stuff;
otherwise a big hunk o' food should just be handed out, or perhaps
placed where the dog will be eating.

Whether he stands up or lies down to eat, he's okay.

He goes up to it
> and sniffs and when he gets around to it he will take a piece out
like
> I said before. Should i be worried?
*****
Worry only if he shows signs of illness. Signs of stubbornness you can
wait out; signs of him not quite knowing what to do you can fix.

Getting rid of the bowl might help; feeding larger hunks o' chicken
instead of pieces may also make mealtime more interesting. Also, since
chicken is not a miracle food, if he gets to being really frustrating
but before you cave in and hand feed or retreat to commercial food, you
can simply try a different meat.

Also, if you are lurking or hovering or making little squeaky sounds of
distress or talking babytalk to him, knock it off. Just put the food
down and move away from the dog.

How's he eating other food?
Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
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6a. Re: feeding mostly chicken
Posted by: "Sue" fordogs@ptd.net agiledogs2000
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 3:03 pm ((PDT))

>Thanks to all for your responses to my questions. And Lora, the
chicken site was great and made me realize I need to try harder to add
more variety to his diet. He does get 2 Salmon Oil caps daily which
contain 750 mg of Omega 3. Is that enough for a 60 lb dog? And
Catherine and Laurie thanks for your suggestions also. Last night I
fed him a slab of pork spare ribs without any chicken and he did ok. I
wasn't home when he passed stool but my husband said he didn't have to
wash his butt (hooray). Tonight I fed him pork neck with some pork
brains and a small piece of pork kidney, we'll see how that "works out".
Anyway, I figure a week or so of pork and organs and maybe add
something new, keeping my fingers crossed.
Thanks again
Sue, Gnat (I like pork) & Slick

Messages in this topic (6)
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6b. Re: feeding mostly chicken
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 5:19 pm ((PDT))

Great, Sue, glad things are going well. Just also keep in mind that
too much organs and too much new food at once can cause loose stool.
Organs should be around 10% of total diet, with liver being about half
that or a little less. These aren't hard and fast rules, of course,
just a guideline. It's based on what's in a typical prey animal. Lots
of meat, some bone, a bit of organs.

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sue" <fordogs@...> wrote:
Tonight I fed him pork neck with some pork
> brains and a small piece of pork kidney, we'll see how that "works
out".
> Anyway, I figure a week or so of pork and organs and maybe add
> something new, keeping my fingers crossed.

Messages in this topic (6)
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7a. Re: Dog not wanting to eat pork necks
Posted by: "vickies_28" vickies_28@yahoo.com vickies_28
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 3:04 pm ((PDT))

I have not tried giving him beef bones, just chicken with bones, and
then pork necks. He eats pork meat just fine when given chunks of
it. Beef chunks are fine too. Chicken wings and other part - np.
But when I gave him a pig foot - not really, looked at it, stared at
it, licked and sniffed, and then ate a little, but did not seem to
be too excited and wanted to bury it (was outside). With pork necks -
just ate a bit after sitting next to it for 10 min. Not much
interest and did not finish although seemed hungry.
He has all permanent teeth. Chews on sticks and hard toys.

Vickie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Andrea" <poketmouse45@...> wrote:
>
> It could be that he's teething. Both of my pups flat refused to
work
> on any bones that weren't chicken bones while they were teething.
> Tycho even went so far as to strip all the meat off of a duck,
just
> leaving the bare frame. I was worried until I noticed that he had
> begun losing his puppy teeth. Now that all his adult chompers are
in
> he's back to demolishing anything he is given. Geiger had an
> aversion to anything that contained a bone in it, but he'd eat the
> meat off of it.
>
> If he eats boneless pork without himming and hawing, that kind of
> rules out an aversion to pork. What kind of bone in beef does he
get
> and does he gnaw on the beef bones?
>
> Andrea
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "vickies_28" <vickies_28@>
> wrote:
>
> > He will eat the meat chunks of pork just fine with great
appetite,
> > but if I give him a port neck or sholder, whatever has bone in
it -
> > he would just look at it funny, sniff it, leak it and
eventually
> > in about 10 min start eating it. But then will not finish it
> > alghouth seems hungry.
>

Messages in this topic (7)
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7b. Re: Dog not wanting to eat pork necks
Posted by: "vickies_28" vickies_28@yahoo.com vickies_28
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 3:06 pm ((PDT))

And I think it would be
> a good idea to check his teeth/mouth to make sure this isn't a
> mechanical problem.
> Chris O
>
Thanks, Chris.
I am positive there is nothing wrong with his teeth/mouth. He chews on
other bones like chicken and toys - really hard. And he's done
teething.
Should I try any other bones? I want him to enjoy the bones like all
dogs do, not stare at it.
Vickie

Messages in this topic (7)
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7c. Re: Dog not wanting to eat pork necks
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 4:08 pm ((PDT))

"vickies_28" <vickies_28@...> wrote:
>> Should I try any other bones? I want him to enjoy the bones like all
> dogs do, not stare at it.
*****
Yes, try other bones. Pork necks are not very meaty, pork feet are I
think daunting to many dogs at first. You may have simply chosen a
couple of difficult pork representatives. You might try a slab (mini
or whole) of spare ribs, you might try pork brisket bone (aka riblets):
both have more meat than the neck and both are more accomodating than a
foot.

You could try a turkey thigh or neck (depending on his ability when he
gets going a neck may or may not be useful); also unless you have
sampled all the possible chicken parts, give him a more complicated
body part. Having to adjust to a new presentation of something he's
comfortable with may inspire him.

How long has he been eating raw?
Chris O

Messages in this topic (7)
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8a. Re: not eating enough
Posted by: "blue eyed" eyed_blue@yahoo.co.uk eyed_blue
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 3:04 pm ((PDT))

Hi there,
sorry if this is a bit long!
Im another one with a pup like this and he is just not hungry anymore in the mornings. Now that I have stopped the morning meals he eats more since he was getting the chance just to pick a little from each meal before. He was never very food motivated but he is eating more on one main meal at tea time and maybe a bone late evening. If he is not hungry then it will disapear after a few minutes!

Play with feeding times and see what suits them, I think they do start to regulate themselves though as I see this in my dog.

Remember the more variety the better, they are not daft and will work out what they will be eating and hold out for the better stuff!!

try different combinations, instead of giving the offal in one meal every few days add just a little bit to minced meat.......thats whats so good about raw feeding, variety over time.

Also feed a variety of body parts rather than minces or set cuts. My pup has eaten almost a whole lamb this week yet he is interested in the food because its all different shapes/textures even though its the same meat/animal, he has had a whole lambs neck, shoulders including bone, ribs, tripe, heart, liver, minced muscle meat, flank.

I can only say what has worked for my dog but hopefully you might find something helpful in here. I wouldnt think of it as going off raw as my pup starved himself over 4 days on 'complete food'

Natalie

---------------------------------
For ideas on reducing your carbon footprint visit Yahoo! For Good this month.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (5)
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9a. Re: Intro - Newbie
Posted by: "Renate Hotchkiss" renate.tideswell@gmail.com tideswell_renate
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 3:10 pm ((PDT))

Thank you Brandi, Casey and Andrea for the welcome and great information. I
will sign up on the cat list. I think I'll start with the dogs first though
and see how it goes.

---------------------------------
>
> If they are already prone to digestive upset, you want to start slow
> and steady. At first feed a little less than you think they will
> eventually be eating and divide it into two meals a day. Don't add
> any organs for the time being, and stick with chicken for a couple of
> weeks to let them settle in.
>
> Mixing raw and ki**le isn't advisable, especailly for a dog that
> already has tummy upsets. The foods digest at different rates, so it
> ends up that one of the foods doesn't digest properly.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

>They do have very bad stomach upset but they have been fed only chicken
> wieners and ham sandwich spread for the past year, and a few treats called
> T-Bonz, so I don't know that they are the ones that have a problem.LOL
> Do you think I should just start them on raw immediately anyway? The female
> has lost about a quarter of her hair and they both have a really awful odor
> that doesn't go with bathing. I bathed them once and the groomer did the
> male once and the female twice (that's in the last 3 days) and they still
> smell very bad. And feel greasy. But with a diet like that i guess it could
> be related. I don't think I'd have a problem getting them to eat raw. We
> were barbequeing chicken Tuesday night and they all got treats of the
> 'parson's nose' and they gobbled it up. I think I'm convincing myself here
> LOL, Especially since they really don't want to eat ki**le. Does anyone
> have any further input, I'd appreciate it as this is totally new to me, but
> since I'm cleaning up messes every day from them anyway, even if there were
> a problem, how would that be different? But if there were a problem, how
> would I know? EEeeekk I am really confused now
>

>
>

--
Renate
'The more I learn about men, the more I love my Shih Tzu'

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (5)
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10a. New and with issues
Posted by: "blue eyed" eyed_blue@yahoo.co.uk eyed_blue
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 3:12 pm ((PDT))

Not only was it a huge headache to gather and prepare but
the cost was too much for us to keep up with and to top it off the
dogs had digestive issues with the veggies, fruit and grains, go figure!

I'm sure our pup will LOVE the new diet but I'm just having a hard
time getting it through my head that meats, bones and eggs are the
only things needed to keep her healthy and strong.

I hope you dont mind me quoting and highlighting your post but I think it shows how you have answered your own worries, if you know what I mean.

you say you are having a problem with them only needing the RMB's and eggs yet you have already experienced why they dont need the other stuff yourself!
Maybe Im slow and have missed something?

Im fairly new to feeding raw but I will never look back, I dont feed the pulped veg as it dosnt sit well with my pup either, (thats when I started finding out about the prey model......) however Im not against him getting some of these foods now and again, for example, we were on a walk and there were raspberries growing so I picked some and they were a recall treat.

I think pet food companies have been good at conditioning us, ie a dog must have this, that.....

Natalie

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Messages in this topic (3)
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11. thanks ane new puppy
Posted by: "Mary" borter@charter.net jrtbc02
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 4:14 pm ((PDT))

I just got a new 11 week old JRT puppy and wanted to thank all of you for
all the help with raw feeding. Have been feeding the other JRTs raw for
about 6 months with good results.
Today this little puppy (3.8 lbs) ate almost a whole chicken leg. She
didn't eat the bone but chewed on it awhile. It kept her busy for about 30
minutes and when she had had enough I took it away. she seems sleepy and
happy now.
Thanks again for all your great support and information.
Mary

Mary Hamilton
Borter JRTs and BCs
Spiffy Spot Salon for Dogs
borter@charter.net

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (1)
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12a. Re: Need support on raw feeding
Posted by: "johkemp" johkemp@yahoo.com.au johkemp
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 4:14 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "vickies_28" <vickies_28@...>
wrote:
>
> "My husband and all family opposed that, and now that we got
another dog, they say I will kill this one with the raw diet as I did
kill the first one. Sometimes I really doubt myself, maybe I was the
one to cause the death of my beloved puppy by feeding him raw."

Vickie - it is hard to talk to the little voice in your head
sometimes but hopefully the other postings will reinforce the
knowledge that you are in no way to blame for your pup's illness. I
find it hard to understand that the people who are supposed to
support you can be so cruel and ignorant.

If your family are so convinced by mass marketing about the value
of "scientifically balanced crap" hire 'super-size me' from the video
store. Kibble is McDonalds for dogs.

I would highly recommend buying Tom Lonsdale's books - Raw Meaty
Bones and Work Wonders. These are great for your own information and
the show scaremongers that you know what you are doing.

Good luck and have fun with your new pup.

Messages in this topic (7)
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13a. Re: Vet disagrees with raw
Posted by: "johkemp" johkemp@yahoo.com.au johkemp
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 4:45 pm ((PDT))

Kris,

It could be that he just finds it hard to recommend a generic, non-
patentable product that does not attract commissions.

Sometimes it is just easier to glaze over and say 'uhm - okay' and
leave it at that.

Messages in this topic (9)
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14. Thyroid/Valley Fever/Glucosamine
Posted by: "my3jcs" my3jcs@yahoo.com my3jcs
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 4:46 pm ((PDT))

Thanks to everyone for all your help. I have a couple more questions
and want to get your opinion. One of my boys is on medication for
thyroid and Valley Fever. In another post, someone mentioned possibly
needing additional supplements if there were medical issues. With
thyroid and VF, would that be the case? The only supplement I give is
Fish Oil. I also have a boxer mix with early kidney failure and hip
dysplasia. I give him a Glycoflex daily (glucosamine mix). I
recently heard gluc. is not good for dogs. If I take him off, I'm
afraid he will be in a lot of pain as he has trouble getting up
sometimes and walks very slowly. Thank goodness my other dog is
healthy!

Thank you!

Carol
Rex,Rocky,Mack

Messages in this topic (1)
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15a. Re: vet says Yeay to rawfeeding
Posted by: "johkemp" johkemp@yahoo.com.au johkemp
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 5:06 pm ((PDT))

---
>
> "johkemp" <johkemp@> wrote:
> > >When I explain how I feed my pets my answer is
> >
> > "A prey model diet based around Raw Meaty Bones. This includes
offal and the occasional table scraps."
> >
>>
> What kind of RMBs are you feeding?
> Chris O
>

Hi Chris,

By 'based around' I meant as part of most meals. Yes I do feed meat
off the bones to try and ensure adequate amounts eg if it is a
chicken wing day then my pup will get some chuck steak or kangaroo
meat too. She loves chicken drumsticks as well. How about I change
it to "this includes chunks of meat, offal and the occasional table
scraps?"

Messages in this topic (12)
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16.1. Re: Why not to feed raw with kibble
Posted by: "Kathleen" kbabcock1@yahoo.com kbabcock1
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 5:20 pm ((PDT))

Interesting about this digestion piece. There is a diet-one of many we have tried, that the only great thing we really got from it is why you don't pollute your own stomach with carbs after heavy meat meal. Your stomach uses tremendous amounts of hydrochloric acid to digest meat, if you dump in the carbs, the acid is cut and takes longer to digest. Same with fruits, if you have fruit, make it the first item you eat, as it goes through your stomach quickly, if you eat it as a desert, now it putrefies waiting to be digested behind the meat. The diet was called the Save your life diet. Very interesting principles that taught us a lot about what can mix with what. I have to assume, the same thing goes for dogs, that is if you feed them anything other than meat meals.

Kathleen and TAMI (Tuxedo Greyhound)

---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (37)
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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11979

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: The Care and Feeding of Mastiffs
From: esmolensky
1b. Re: The Care and Feeding of Mastiffs
From: mgitaville
1c. Re: The Care and Feeding of Mastiffs
From: Sandee Lee
1d. Re: The Care and Feeding of Mastiffs
From: costrowski75

2a. Re: Neyla won't eat lamb neck bones anymore - help!
From: Andrea
2b. Re: Neyla won't eat lamb neck bones anymore - help!
From: Jen

3a. Re: where to feed dogs
From: Olga
3b. Re: where to feed dogs
From: Sonja
3c. Re: where to feed dogs
From: mgitaville
3d. Re: where to feed dogs
From: Andrea

4a. Re: pork ribs
From: morkydzgrl

5.1. Re: Confused
From: Olga

6a. Dog not wanting to eat pork necks
From: vickies_28
6b. Re: Dog not wanting to eat pork necks
From: Olga
6c. Re: Dog not wanting to eat pork necks
From: costrowski75
6d. Re: Dog not wanting to eat pork necks
From: Andrea

7a. not eating enough
From: ptrsrgnt
7b. Re: not eating enough
From: valdeere @msn.com
7c. Re: not eating enough
From: mgitaville
7d. Re: not eating enough
From: Andrea

8a. Re: snack ideas for small breed (alaskan klee kai) and meal plan
From: Tina Deloia
8b. Re: snack ideas for small breed (alaskan klee kai) and meal plan
From: mgitaville
8c. Re: snack ideas for small breed (alaskan klee kai) and meal plan
From: Andrea

9a. New and with issues
From: Anita
9b. Re: New and with issues
From: Olga

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Re: The Care and Feeding of Mastiffs
Posted by: "esmolensky" esmolensky@yahoo.com esmolensky
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:39 am ((PDT))

***EDITED BY MODERATOR. FAILURE TO TRIM MAY RESULT IN LOST POSTS.***

I have a 7mos. old BB puppy at around 80# for now.
I feed him close to 4# a day. I think I'm feeding him too much, but
he's not gaining any weight and he's been on raw about 10 days.

E & Reagan

Messages in this topic (8)
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1b. Re: The Care and Feeding of Mastiffs
Posted by: "mgitaville" mgitaville@hotmail.com mgitaville
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 12:43 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "esmolensky" <esmolensky@...>
wrote:
>
> ***EDITED BY MODERATOR. FAILURE TO TRIM MAY RESULT IN LOST POSTS.***
>
>
> I have a 7mos. old BB puppy at around 80# for now.
> I feed him close to 4# a day. I think I'm feeding him too much, but
> he's not gaining any weight and he's been on raw about 10 days.
>
> E & Reagan
>

*****Yes, 4lbs for an 80# pup is too much. You should aim to start
between 2%-3% of his body weight which in this case is equal to
roughly 1.5lb to 2.4 lbs. I would lean closer to 2-2.5lbs personally
given a pups have a pretty good metabolism generally at 7 months.

Now, with regards to weight gain..... is he looking to skinny? (bear
in mind that around 8-9 months most mastiffs tend to be pretty lanky
and "leggy" looking). One of the biggest mistakes that can be made
for a giant breed dog is to put too much weight and stress on their
joints while young and growing. Unless the pup is very thin (can see
all the ribs) I would be reluctant to feed too much at this point.

Surprised you have not had a blowout mess at feeding 4lbs/day to be
honest!

Marguerita

Messages in this topic (8)
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1c. Re: The Care and Feeding of Mastiffs
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 12:51 pm ((PDT))

Is that amount approximately 2-3% of his expected adult weight?

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "esmolensky" <esmolensky@yahoo.com>

I have a 7mos. old BB puppy at around 80# for now.
I feed him close to 4# a day. I think I'm feeding him too much, but
he's not gaining any weight and he's been on raw about 10 days.

Messages in this topic (8)
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1d. Re: The Care and Feeding of Mastiffs
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:03 pm ((PDT))

"mgitaville" <mgitaville@...> wrote:
>
> *****Yes, 4lbs for an 80# pup is too much. You should aim to start
> between 2%-3% of his body weight which in this case is equal to
> roughly 1.5lb to 2.4 lbs. I would lean closer to 2-2.5lbs
personally
> given a pups have a pretty good metabolism generally at 7 months.
*****
Now hold on. If the adult dog will weigh 200lb, then four pounds is
two percent of adult weight and there's nothing wrong with that. And
there's no question that a Mastiff ain't gonna grow up small.

In fact, even if the adult will weigh less than 200lb, an active
hooligan puppy may well need more than 2% ideal adult weight. I
realize hooliganism in a BC pup is different from a Mastiff puppy's
hooliganism, but my BC pup--almost a year now and weighing 31 pounds--
eats an amount that, if one were counting, would appropriately feed a
50lb dog.

Except when doling out food to young pups for which adult weight is a
mystery, there's no particular reason to base feeding amounts on
current puppy weight. If one wanted to feed a young pup this way,
the recommended percentage is 10%...in which case four pounds would
not be enough!

However, don't go there. Just base amounts on a. ideal adult weight
or b. what works best for the pup right here, right now, today.

Chris O

Messages in this topic (8)
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2a. Re: Neyla won't eat lamb neck bones anymore - help!
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:40 am ((PDT))

If the shank bone got stuck on her teeth a couple of times I would
expect that it made her gums a little sore. Chicken bones are so easy
to crush I doubt it bothers her mouth. I'd put the necks away for a
week or so and try again when you are sure her mouth doesn't hurt.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Jen" <jboydmorin@...> wrote:

> Before feeding these two, I tried some lamb shanks that Peter had
> offered to me and Neyla got the bone stuck on her teeth a couple of >
times. I pulled it off and gave it back to her. When it happened >
another time or two, I just threw the bone away.

Messages in this topic (4)
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2b. Re: Neyla won't eat lamb neck bones anymore - help!
Posted by: "Jen" jboydmorin@gmail.com choirgirl_21
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 12:42 pm ((PDT))

The only problem with that is that it was about 3 weeks ago at this
point and she hasn't had any bones other than chicken since. Do you
think any resulting soreness could last that long?

Jen

-- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Andrea" <poketmouse45@...> wrote:
>
> If the shank bone got stuck on her teeth a couple of times I would
> expect that it made her gums a little sore. Chicken bones are so easy
> to crush I doubt it bothers her mouth. I'd put the necks away for a
> week or so and try again when you are sure her mouth doesn't hurt.
>
> Andrea
>
>

Messages in this topic (4)
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3a. Re: where to feed dogs
Posted by: "Olga" olga.drozd@gmail.com olga_d
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:40 am ((PDT))

I usually feed my dogs in their crates. I have fed in the kitchen a
few times and used a couple of chairs from the dining room to block
one entrance and I stood in the other entrance.

After a while you should be able to remove the blockades when your
dogs learn where the "eating place" is. I know that as soon as I pick
up my dogs' food they jump up and run off to the spare bedroom (where
their crates are).

Olga

Messages in this topic (5)
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3b. Re: where to feed dogs
Posted by: "Sonja" ladyver@sbcglobal.net lonepalm77
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 11:09 am ((PDT))

Use an old bathrug, shower curtain, or vinyl tablecloth and start feeding them only on there (or crate, that was a good suggestion, too!). If they take the food off, just keep putting it back on the mat until they get the idea. My Lab is so conditioned that we've noticed she takes her chew toys onto her "eating mat" to chew on them.

I'd probably discontinue letting your dogs eat their chewies on the furniture....some dogs might be able to make the distinction, but in general it wouldn't be fair to expect them to know what is OK to eat on the couch and what isn't.

Sonja

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (5)
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3c. Re: where to feed dogs
Posted by: "mgitaville" mgitaville@hotmail.com mgitaville
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 12:58 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sonja" <ladyver@...> wrote:
>
> Use an old bathrug, shower curtain, or vinyl tablecloth and start
feeding them only on there (or crate, that was a good suggestion,
too!). If they take the food off, just keep putting it back on the
mat until they get the idea. My Lab is so conditioned that we've
noticed she takes her chew toys onto her "eating mat" to chew on
them.
>
> I'd probably discontinue letting your dogs eat their chewies on the
furniture....some dogs might be able to make the distinction, but in
general it wouldn't be fair to expect them to know what is OK to eat
on the couch and what isn't.
>
> Sonja
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

****Agree completely with this post. I think it is important to
condition dogs to having an "eating place" for many purposes, but in
particular when having a multiple dog home. With each dog having
their own place to eat it helps them resist temptations to check out
the other's food.

Marguerita

Messages in this topic (5)
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3d. Re: where to feed dogs
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 12:59 pm ((PDT))

I started by feeding my pups in their crate so they would stay put. As
they and their food got bigger it became less feasible to shove a 60lb
dog and side of goat into a kennel, so I had them eat on an old towel
in front of the kennel. Any time they tried to take the food off the
towel, I'd just pick it up and replace it back on their spot.
Eventually they get the idea and know to eat on the towel, wherever I
decide to put it.

Of course, all this training falls apart when they have an especially
fun "chew toy" that they want to really get into. I'm still working on
explaining to them that Mom doesn't want to share the cow foot, but
thanks for thinking of me, now get off the couch.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "swilken61" <powrfemme@...> wrote:

> Any tips on how to keep the dogs from running all over the house
> with their food?

Messages in this topic (5)
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4a. Re: pork ribs
Posted by: "morkydzgrl" ShankMa4@aol.com morkydzgrl
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:52 am ((PDT))

OMGOSH!!! OLGA!!! That is going to be sooo helpful to me. Now I will
be able to understand all these parts that are so unusual to me!!!
THANK YOU SO MUCH OLGA!!

And a huge thank you to everyone else that has answered my questions.
Ihave saved them for reference when my anxiety raises up.

Reading the answers to everyone else questions have been invaluable for
me. I NEVER EVER would be able to venture into this "strange" new
world of feeding without this support. Honestly, I feel so weird and
alone for doing this. I barely even tell my friends...my kids think
I'm nuts, sometimes I think I'm nuts. This is such a departure from
the status quo. I am quitely learning and hoping this all works out.

You all do a great service by answering these questions.

Cindi

> Here's a little reference that will help you to identify animal parts:
> http://www.virtualweberbullet.com/meatcharts.html
>
> I think you can feed most any part of pork, except for things that are
> too small or have artificially sharp bones (like pork chops).
>
> Olga
>

Messages in this topic (15)
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5.1. Re: Confused
Posted by: "Olga" olga.drozd@gmail.com olga_d
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:58 am ((PDT))

Hi Tina,

You will find that no one on this list (or mostly anyway) buys their
dog's food from the pet store. We shop at grocery stores, butchers,
raw-feeding co-ops, perhaps the occasional hunter friend and a handful
of other sources. The food in human stores is, by definition, human
grade so there aren't any problems with feeding it. In fact, I would
expect it to be monitored closer than raw pet food.

I'm not a fan of pre-made foods because for one, they are ground so
you don't get any chewing benefits. Also, they often have all kinds
of extra junk like veggies, fruit, and a whole slew of unnecessary
supplements. Sometimes they also have too much bone (and thus not
enough meat) because well, meat is the expensive part. Not to mention
that these foods are pretty darn expensive. Not sure how much you're
paying per pound but I aim for around $1/lb as an average.

I feed my dogs chicken, turkey, pork, beef, lamb and several kinds of
fish on a regular basis. I got some rabbit once and while it was a
big hit, it was way out of my budget at $3/lb. I have seen quail and
cornish game hens at the store also, but they're more expensive than
I'd like and my dogs are bigger so I stick to larger birds (BTW, I
believe ox tail comes from beef). Right now I've got a lead on some
venison in my area, so I'm hoping to add that to the rotation as well.
You definitely don't need to shop at a pet store to get variety.

BTW, trimming your message means to delete the unnecessary bits from
the message you are replying to, and keeping only the parts that you
are responding to.

Hope that helps!
Olga

Messages in this topic (28)
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6a. Dog not wanting to eat pork necks
Posted by: "vickies_28" vickies_28@yahoo.com vickies_28
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:58 am ((PDT))

Hi
I am very glad I found this group. Lots of good info. So here is my
question. My 5 month old puppy has been eating raw since we got him
about 3 weeks ago (refused to eat dry food for 3 days and then started
raw). So.. He does well with chicken and beef, bones in or out, but
doesn't go crazy about pork with bone. He will eat the meat chunks of
pork just fine with great appetite, but if I give him a port neck or
sholder, whatever has bone in it - he would just look at it funny,
sniff it, leak it and eventually in about 10 min start eating it. But
then will not finish it alghouth seems hungry. I don't think it's the
chewing problem,, since he is chewing on sticks and other hard things
like there is no tomorrow. Maybe it's something about the pork? He
wouldn't eat the pig foot eather, just snacked on it and wanted to
bury it. Could it be that pork is too fatty for him?

Any suggestions.
Vickie

Messages in this topic (4)
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6b. Re: Dog not wanting to eat pork necks
Posted by: "Olga" olga.drozd@gmail.com olga_d
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 11:29 am ((PDT))

Maybe it's the tough skin or the size of the item that is intimidating
to him? Have you tried cutting into the meat with a knife so that he
has "slots" he can grab on to?

One of my dogs was not keen on eating big items, so we had to start
with regular items and work our way up. If you offer him a whole
chicken is he willing to eat that?

Olga

Messages in this topic (4)
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6c. Re: Dog not wanting to eat pork necks
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 12:42 pm ((PDT))

"vickies_28" <vickies_28@...> wrote:
> My 5 month old puppy has been eating raw since we got him
> about 3 weeks ago (refused to eat dry food for 3 days and then
started
> raw). So.. He does well with chicken and beef, bones in or out, but
> doesn't go crazy about pork with bone.
*****
-Could be he's teething and pork bones hurt.
-Could be he doesn't like pork, these things happen.
-Could be he doesn't like the pork you buy--might there be an odor to
it? These are raw pork necks, right?
-Could be you are feeding a lot of bone and expecting him to eat it
all. How much bone are you expecting the kid to eat?

I think if pork were too fatty you'd see evidence in stool quality.
Fat as a food item generally appreciated, perhaps the texture of the
fat bothers him.

IMO it sounds like you're feeding him plenty of bone. You might
simply back off a bit, not press the issue with such a young lad;
feed him pork meat and try pork bones later. And I think it would be
a good idea to check his teeth/mouth to make sure this isn't a
mechanical problem.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (4)
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6d. Re: Dog not wanting to eat pork necks
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 12:43 pm ((PDT))

It could be that he's teething. Both of my pups flat refused to work
on any bones that weren't chicken bones while they were teething.
Tycho even went so far as to strip all the meat off of a duck, just
leaving the bare frame. I was worried until I noticed that he had
begun losing his puppy teeth. Now that all his adult chompers are in
he's back to demolishing anything he is given. Geiger had an
aversion to anything that contained a bone in it, but he'd eat the
meat off of it.

If he eats boneless pork without himming and hawing, that kind of
rules out an aversion to pork. What kind of bone in beef does he get
and does he gnaw on the beef bones?

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "vickies_28" <vickies_28@...>
wrote:

> He will eat the meat chunks of pork just fine with great appetite,
> but if I give him a port neck or sholder, whatever has bone in it -
> he would just look at it funny, sniff it, leak it and eventually
> in about 10 min start eating it. But then will not finish it
> alghouth seems hungry.

Messages in this topic (4)
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7a. not eating enough
Posted by: "ptrsrgnt" ptrsrgnt@yahoo.ca ptrsrgnt
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:59 am ((PDT))

Hello,
I have introduced my dogs before. They are both female Labradoodles
(different parents, different sizes).
Maggie is now 9 months old and weighs about 35 pounds and Gypsy is 7
months old and weighs about 60 pounds.
They have both been on raw food for about 4 months and at the start
they loved it. Most meals consist of chicken or pork with mixed,
chopped organ meats for one meal every few days.
I feed them twice a day with Maggie getting 5 or 6 ounces for
breakfast and 7 or 8 ounces for supper. Gypsy gets double this.
At first they would gobble the food up quickly but now they hesitate
more and more. Gypsy will eat both breakfast and supper with some
hesitation and though Maggie will eventually eat breakfast she just
sniffs at supper and now, most times she won't even try it. This means
that most days she is only eating 5 or 6 ounces. She won't eat a
bigger meal for breakfast.
I have tried them with beef but niether of them are keen on it.
They get a walk every morning and they run around the fields for about
an hour before breakfast. I would have thought that this will give
them an appetite for breakfast and indeed it used to.
They also get a one hour run in the evening about 2 hours after their
supper (if they eat it, that is).
They both seem to be in very good health and are not fat or thin.
I am just concerned at their lack of enthusiasm for the meals and even
more so as Maggie is refusing her supper most days.
Has anyone had to deal with dogs that just seem to "go off" eating raw
food and can someone offer suggestions?

Thanks for your input
Peter

Messages in this topic (4)
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7b. Re: not eating enough
Posted by: "valdeere @msn.com" valdeere@msn.com vahl0426
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 11:32 am ((PDT))

Hi Peter,

I am brand new to this group (not even an hour yet!). I came here to learn
about raw feeding (I currently know very little) but I have to ask, if your
dogs are neither too fat nor too thin and are in good health, then why the
concern about one of your dogs skipping the evening meal?

Perhaps it's the predominantly fed chicken and pork that your dogs need a
change from???...do you find they eat better on the days you also feed organ
meat?

Please know that I am not asking these questions to be critical, I'm really
trying to educate myself about raw feeding so I can give my dogs the best!

Val

Messages in this topic (4)
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7c. Re: not eating enough
Posted by: "mgitaville" mgitaville@hotmail.com mgitaville
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 12:42 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "valdeere @..." <valdeere@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi Peter,
>
> I am brand new to this group (not even an hour yet!). I came here
to learn
> about raw feeding (I currently know very little) but I have to ask,
if your
> dogs are neither too fat nor too thin and are in good health, then
why the
> concern about one of your dogs skipping the evening meal?
>
> Perhaps it's the predominantly fed chicken and pork that your dogs
need a
> change from???...do you find they eat better on the days you also
feed organ
> meat?
>
> Please know that I am not asking these questions to be critical,
I'm really
> trying to educate myself about raw feeding so I can give my dogs
the best!
>
> Val

*******Val, your question is in fact right on target. If the dogs
are not thin then it really is as simple as the pups have learned how
to self-regulate their eating. They do not need to eat so do not.
They are not "going off raw" as was suggested.

At this point and age I would first suggest moving to one meal. I
think their enthusiasm would increase and it would give the
opportunity for better variety with larger (and more interesting)
meals. I am not sure what is being fed at 5-6 oz. since even the leg
quarters I use are about 1lb each. If the answer is something like
chicken thighs or wings than I would say that it is time to move to
something bigger - to easy for these dogs to try and swallow
something that size whole.

Marguerita

Messages in this topic (4)
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7d. Re: not eating enough
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 12:44 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Peter, I have a couple of questions so we can figure this out.
First of all, how do the dogs look? Does it seem like they are losing
weight? Second, is their food cut up into small parts or are they
eating whole chicken quarters/pork roasts?

My GSP pup put himself on once a day feedings at about 6 months old.
I offered him food twice a day, but he just quit eating one of the
meals. He also started eating more the second meal, though. I'd
just let Maggie eat once a day. Offer a half chicken instead of a
quarter and let her eat as much as she wants. Geiger goes through
phases when he'll just decide he's not all that into food, especially
when the temperature spikes. He doesn't get too skinny, so I've
never worried about it.

Your girls are around the age when they might just prefer eating once
a day, and if they aren't losing weight I wouldn't fret about the
amount of food they eat. Some dogs are just easy keepers. Just
don't fuss around them if they don't eat, you don't want to make
picky eaters. You give breakfast/dinner, if they don't want it,
kitchen is closed.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "ptrsrgnt" <ptrsrgnt@...> wrote:
> Gypsy will eat both breakfast and supper with some
> hesitation and though Maggie will eventually eat breakfast she just
> sniffs at supper and now, most times she won't even try it.

Messages in this topic (4)
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8a. Re: snack ideas for small breed (alaskan klee kai) and meal plan
Posted by: "Tina Deloia" tinamdeloia@msn.com tinamdeloia
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 11:08 am ((PDT))

Thanks Andrea, So where do you purchase such strange cuts of meat? I can find beef, duck, chicken, pork but are you saying you buy these and the others in a grocery store, cut them up and freeze them yourself? Or do you buy them from a specialty pet store frozen? I truly have no clue.

Tina

Messages in this topic (5)
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8b. Re: snack ideas for small breed (alaskan klee kai) and meal plan
Posted by: "mgitaville" mgitaville@hotmail.com mgitaville
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:00 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Tina Deloia <tinamdeloia@...>
wrote:
>
> Thanks Andrea, So where do you purchase such strange cuts of
meat? I can find beef, duck, chicken, pork but are you saying you
buy these and the others in a grocery store, cut them up and freeze
them yourself? Or do you buy them from a specialty pet store
frozen? I truly have no clue.
>
> Tina
>

******Tina, you have the right idea with the grocery store. Where
you find meat is really up to how resourceful you want to be. For
example, those of use living in a city often have an abundance of
grocery chains where we can always find something that is a deal.
However, even as the city dweller I still rely on a butcher that gets
me a good deal on ribs, heart and liver. I rely on the Asian market
for Pork shoulders at a steal along with odd items that my guys like
as snacks such as chiken feet, pig ears, pigs feet, etc. Then there
are co-ops you can join that allow you access to particular items,
for example, rabbit you may desire. And now, with fall around the
corner it is always time to start reminding all the hunters that I am
ready to take anything they may have to offer. (I had 2 whole deer
legs in my freezer cut up last winter for free!)

Some people may have great access to items like elk and goose - if
you can find a way to get it without blowing the budget great!
However, a nice steady foundation of chicken, beef, and pork will
take you most of the way there if needed.

The only thing I use a pet store for is the occassional toy. Once
you go raw you realize your dogs would much prefer a slab of ribs to
chew on for an hour than any dog chew or bone they may have.

Hope this helps some.
Marguerita

Messages in this topic (5)
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8c. Re: snack ideas for small breed (alaskan klee kai) and meal plan
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:01 pm ((PDT))

Depending on your area, there are lots of different ways to find good
foodstuffs. I get most of the regular stuff at grocery stores when
they have good sales. I live in Central California and there is a
buying group made up of raw feeders that gets really good prices on
bulk meats. If I wanted to buy lamb or goat at the store it would be
way out of my price range (I try to keep as close to $1/lb as
possible). But through the buying group I can get lamb and goat for
around $1.40/lb. Where do you live? It's likely we can find a buying
group near you.

You can also order online from suppliers. The mid-eastern US has some
online distributors like prey4pets and hare-today that you can buy
from. For me the shipping cost gets to be too big.

There are also places you can look in your immediate area. If you have
*real* butchers that process whole animals you can probably get some
good stuff from them for really cheap or free. I hear that
taxidermists have to pay a rendering plant to pick up their "leftovers"
so they are very willing to give the meat etc to someone who will use
it.

To start out with you can go with what you can find. As you and your
little one are getting used to it you can search for more exotic
foods. Ethnic markets are good places to find more unusual meats,
organs and parts too.

If you have more questions, just holler!

Andrea <---Jealous you have a cute fluffy little klee kai. I always
wanted one

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Tina Deloia <tinamdeloia@...> wrote:

So where do you purchase such strange cuts of meat? I can find beef,
duck, chicken, pork but are you saying you buy these and the others in
a grocery store, cut them up and freeze them yourself?

Messages in this topic (5)
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9a. New and with issues
Posted by: "Anita" craftyhoosiermama@gmail.com anita42776
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 11:08 am ((PDT))

Hi,
I'm new to the group but I've had some prior experience with feeding a
raw diet to my 2 now gone dogs.
We now have a 1 yr old lab/pointer mix who has mild problems like
tartar on her teeth and flaky skin.
My major issue is with our overweight cat who has been having
reoccuring UTI's. He's about 7 yrs old, not too picky of an eater but
I'm just not sure were to start.
The last time I did this it was for dogs and the method I was using
called for many steps with fruits and vegetables being chopped and
mixed with soaked, then cooked grains plus a laundry list of
supplements. Not only was it a huge headache to gather and prepare but
the cost was too much for us to keep up with and to top it off the
dogs had digestive issues with the veggies, fruit and grains, go figure!

I'm sure our pup will LOVE the new diet but I'm just having a hard
time getting it through my head that meats, bones and eggs are the
only things needed to keep her healthy and strong.

Now with the cat I might need some ideas of where to start and how to
feed him.

I have 2 small kids so any experience in keeping the RF contained to a
feeding area would be helpful. Thanks

Anita

Messages in this topic (2)
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9b. Re: New and with issues
Posted by: "Olga" olga.drozd@gmail.com olga_d
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 11:28 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Anita" <craftyhoosiermama@...> wrote:
> I'm sure our pup will LOVE the new diet but I'm just having a hard
> time getting it through my head that meats, bones and eggs are the
> only things needed to keep her healthy and strong.

I know, I had a hard time wrapping my head around it too. All those
lists of ingredients on pet food really make us think that more
complicated must be better, but it's not. Grains - well, I think we
can all agree they don't need those. Many of the veggies are actually
detrimental like sugary ones, or nightshade veggies which are bad for
arthritic dogs. Similarly with the supplements - kelp can mess with
thyroid function, alfalfa is a frequent allergy trigger, etc.

After reading this list I decided that it was better to start with the
basics (meat, bone, and organs), and only add other things as they
became needed. At this point we've only added fish oil capsules, but
dogs with medical conditions may well need other supplements added.

> I have 2 small kids so any experience in keeping the RF contained to
> a feeding area would be helpful.

I feed my two dogs in their crates. It's easy, builds a positive
association, and they clean up after themselves nicely. ;) Other
options include feeding outside, on the kitchen floor, in the bathroom
(pick up those little carpets first), on a designated "dog" towel that
gets picked up after eating and put away till the next meal, on one of
those plastic picnic tablecloths. Many choices, find one that works
well for you. :)

Olga

Messages in this topic (2)
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