[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12063

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: I tried and raw is just not going to work.
From: brutus_buckley

2a. Re: Raw TREATS?
From: Stephanie Sorensen

3. Re: pregnant and lactating dams
From: Michael Moore

4a. Re: ham
From: Michael Moore

5. Re: pregnant Yorkie
From: Michael Moore

6a. Feeding amount Clarification
From: T Smith
6b. Re: Feeding amount Clarification
From: Sandee Lee

7a. Re: Cat with sensitive stomach
From: Howard Salob
7b. Re: Cat with sensitive stomach
From: Casey Post
7c. Re: Cat with sensitive stomach
From: Elizabeth
7d. Re: Cat with sensitive stomach
From: Casey Post

8a. Re: raw salmon
From: Giselle

9a. Re: Raw Treats
From: Michael Moore

10a. Re: Tongue
From: Bumble1994@aol.com
10b. Re: Tongue
From: Laurie Swanson

11. Re: baby teeth
From: Michael Moore

12a. Re: HELP PLEASE? AVOCADO PIT :(((
From: cypressbunny

13a. Re: NEW TO RAW
From: Laurie Swanson
13b. Re: NEW TO RAW
From: Giselle

14a. Re: Need advice on weight loss for large mixed breed
From: cockatoos4

15a. Re: Ham
From: Giselle

16a. ADMIN/Re: Raw TREATS?
From: costrowski75

17a. Re: {Raw Feeding} Hambuger meat
From: costrowski75

18a. Re: Houston meat suppliers - Anyone have suggestions?
From: labcope

19a. Re: parts is parts
From: costrowski75

Messages
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1a. Re: I tried and raw is just not going to work.
Posted by: "brutus_buckley" brutus_buckley@yahoo.com brutus_buckley
Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 4:35 pm ((PDT))

//Sometimes you have to break up the bones, I use a hammer.//

Peter,
I agree with some of the other members in that you are probably
teaching your pup to hold out for something better. It can be
frustrating, but keep trying, and stick with one meat. If you go back
to kibble, your pup will just end up being picky about kibble and
you'll still end up switching foods all the time.
The main reason I am posting is to advise against smashing up the bones
with a hammer. I did this with my pup when she was about 3 months old
and it caused digestive upset. I beleive that because I was crushing up
bones that she would/could not chew up with her puppy teeth, she was
swallowing the chunks whole, which caused her to vomit them up and gave
her the runs. With a pup, I think it's best not to break up the bones.
If they gnaw on them and can chew them up themselves, that is best.
Chicken breasts with the ribs attached are my favorite for starting
pups. The bones in leg quarters were a bit too much at first.
-Renee W.

Messages in this topic (11)
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2a. Re: Raw TREATS?
Posted by: "Stephanie Sorensen" steph.sorensen@yahoo.com steph.sorensen
Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 4:35 pm ((PDT))

What I do is sear the liver in a pan for about 20-25 seconds on each side, cut into small, thin, bite-sized pieces, put on a baking sheet and stick in a 300 degree oven for a couple of hours. It makes quite a few dry little treats that stay good for a few months, provided you store them in an airtight container.

-Steph
Scarlet, Lucy and Minkey (the kitty)

skyli_19 <NRB19@aol.com> wrote:
Any recommendations for raw treats that I can carry in my pocket?
Maggie is about to start agility training. I have never trained her
with treats but this group does and it seems to work really well for
the pups learning. The trainer worked with Mag a bit and she used meat
bits but were so tiny maggie got bored so she switched to string
cheese. I had to bite my tongue because I wasn't comfortable with the
dairy...but Maggie loved it and took to the training very fast. Any
opinions on dairy for treats?

I thought maybe I could cut up liver and freeze it. Well, any meat for
that matter. But I don't know that it will stay frozen long and squishy
pockets don't appeal to me. What have you all used?

Nicole & Maggie

---------------------------------
Don't let your dream ride pass you by. Make it a reality with Yahoo! Autos.

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3. Re: pregnant and lactating dams
Posted by: "Michael Moore" m-tak@sbcglobal.net annemoore2000
Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 4:35 pm ((PDT))

>>Does anyone know if there are any concerns about feeding raw
while pregnant? It seems to me they should do really well but I just
don't know.<<

Mark - I don't think I really understand your question -- rawfed bitches are healthier than ki**ble fed bitches, and I cannot imagine any "concerns." I did increase amounts offered & frequency of meals later in my bitch's gestation, and offered increased organs as she progressed closer to her whelping date. She refused to eat bone the last couple of weeks, and refused certain meats throughout much of her pregnancy; I didn't mind catering to her "whims."

-- Anne Moore (M-Tak PWC and one goofy GSD rescue and a silly Golden rescue) in NW Ohio

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4a. Re: ham
Posted by: "Michael Moore" m-tak@sbcglobal.net annemoore2000
Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 4:35 pm ((PDT))

>>Okay, so I'm still new to raw feeding my dogs. I printed out
the "recipe" page from one of the raw feeding sites and it lists ham as
a good food source. Isn't ham smoked and full of nitrates? How can
this be good for the animal?<<

Carole -- the "ham" referred to is a *fresh* ham -- as in straight off the hog fresh. Nothing has been done to it except carving it from the pig.

-- Anne Moore (M-Tak PWC and one goofy GSD rescue and a silly Golden rescue) in NW Ohio

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5. Re: pregnant Yorkie
Posted by: "Michael Moore" m-tak@sbcglobal.net annemoore2000
Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 4:36 pm ((PDT))

>>I have been feeding raw for approximately 4 months. I now have a pregnant 6# yorkie who is 3 weeks into her pregnancy.
Should I add anything to this diet to insure an optimal pregnancy? This is not her first litter, but first litter on the raw diet.<<

Julie -- I didn't "add" anything to my Corgi's diet when she was pregnant. I did offer increased amounts (and smaller, more frequent meals) later in her gestation. But with my girl, she started "refusing" certain proteins -- first to go was fish, with much drama, I might add. Next came pork, eggs, chicken, turkey. Towards the final two weeks, the only foods she would eat were venison and beef heart. She stopped eating bone about 6 weeks in, but gobbled every every tiny bit of organs I offered, so I increased the offerings a bit. I truly believe that pregnant bitches "know" what their bodies need.

-- Anne Moore (M-Tak PWC and one goofy GSD rescue and a silly Golden rescue) in NW Ohio

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6a. Feeding amount Clarification
Posted by: "T Smith" coldbeach@gmail.com lhasaspots
Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 4:53 pm ((PDT))

MODERATORS NOTE:SIGN YOUR MAILS PLEASE!

2- 3% of adeal adult weight means?

I ask because I am feeding Dane puppies.
For example:
Casper is 130 at 7 months old
Louie is 92 @ 5 months...
& we have a 4 month old... so with growing pups, explain the ratio feeding
please?

Maybe you know me from cyberdaniacs? I've been there for 10 years (maybe)

On 9/23/07, Sandee Lee <rlee@plix.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Trina,
>
> << snip >> Feed approximately 2-3% of their ideal adult
> weight. <http://rawfeddogs.net>
>
> Don't I know you from a Dane list somewhere in the past????<<snip>>
>
> Sandee & the Dane Gang
>
>
>

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6b. Re: Feeding amount Clarification
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 5:25 pm ((PDT))

Trina,

Just estimate what they will weigh as adults and feed 2 or 3% of that per
day, divided up into how ever many meals you are feeding.
Three puppies? Yikes! You are brave! :)

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "T Smith" <coldbeach@gmail.com>
>
> 2- 3% of adeal adult weight means?
>
> I ask because I am feeding Dane puppies.
> For example:
> Casper is 130 at 7 months old
> Louie is 92 @ 5 months...
> & we have a 4 month old... so with growing pups, explain the ratio feeding
> please?

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7a. Re: Cat with sensitive stomach
Posted by: "Howard Salob" itiskismet1968@yahoo.com itiskismet1968
Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 4:54 pm ((PDT))

Dear Casey ,

I have an 18 year old girl- siamese. What is the best way to transition her to raw? What foods and how much?

Sincerely,

Howard

>>Anyways, the cat is 13 yrs old, and has a sensitive
> stomach, and vomits nearly everyday for some reason or another.

Thirteen, frequent vomiting - if this cat hasn't been tested for
hyperthyroidism already, that would definitely be my next step.

>So,
> any suggestions of how to make the transition easier?

Small, frequent meals, room temperature (not cold from the fridge), avoid
enhanced meats, etc. Try many different meats - some cats are more likely
to toss up one particular meat more than another, so don't be shy about
trying anything and everything.

I will also say that I switched my old girl at 14 and she's 20 now - my only
regret is not switching her sooner!

Casey

---------------------------------
Building a website is a piece of cake.
Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.

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7b. Re: Cat with sensitive stomach
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 5:04 pm ((PDT))

> I have an 18 year old girl- siamese. What is the best way to transition
> her to raw? What foods and how much?

Howard,

The best way is whatever way works for the cat! Some do best with slow
transition (kibble to canned to raw), some jump right into raw, no problem.
Some skipped the canned step. Some need serious bribe foods (all meat baby
food(no onion), freeze dried meat treats crushed over the raw, kitty kaviar,
whatever).

There's no way to know what is going to work for the cat until you try. And
sometimes you have to try the same thing over and over again before the cat
decides that it was her idea in the first place. Lots of variety right up
front is often a good idea.

I recommend that you visit www.rawfedcats.org for the basics and good ideas
on switching. We also have a cat-specific sister list at

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawcat/ for individual help and support.

Casey

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7c. Re: Cat with sensitive stomach
Posted by: "Elizabeth" rainsou1@yahoo.com rainsou1
Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 6:00 pm ((PDT))

Casey,

Thank you for suggesting those links! I didn't know about the cat group!

-Liz

Messages in this topic (7)
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7d. Re: Cat with sensitive stomach
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 6:21 pm ((PDT))

> Thank you for suggesting those links! I didn't know about the cat group!

Ah - glad to help!

Yes, the rawcat group is quite helpful to those who cannot wade through all
the dog-related posts here. And Lily's rawfedcats.org site is great for
folks to try and get a handle on the basics.

Casey

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8a. Re: raw salmon
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 5:02 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Stephanie!
NAFAIK.
In fact, quite a lot of people store caps or oil supplements in their
freezer if they buy in large amounts, to retard rancidity.
TC
Giselle
with Bea in new Jersey

> I can understand that freezing fish will kill parasites, but does it
> also make the good oils less potent in any way?
>
> Thanks,
> Stephanie
>

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9a. Re: Raw Treats
Posted by: "Michael Moore" m-tak@sbcglobal.net annemoore2000
Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 5:17 pm ((PDT))

>>Maggie is about to start agility training. I have never trained her
with treats but this group does and it seems to work really well for
the pups learning. The trainer worked with Mag a bit and she used meat
bits but were so tiny maggie got bored so she switched to string
cheese. I had to bite my tongue because I wasn't comfortable with the
dairy...but Maggie loved it and took to the training very fast. Any
opinions on dairy for treats?

I thought maybe I could cut up liver and freeze it. Well, any meat for
that matter. But I don't know that it will stay frozen long and squishy
pockets don't appeal to me. What have you all used? <<

Nicole -- this subject comes up frequently. There are a number of folks on the list who train in various venues/sports, myself included. I've done agility for 15 yrs., the last 6 while rawfeeding. Truly, treats comprise such a small percentage of your dog's diet that you can use practically anything! String cheese is a favorite around here. I also use freeze-dried chicken hearts, freeze-dried liver, Cheerios, Zukes mini naturals, garlic hot dogs, diced lunch meat, etc. My advice -- don't sweat the small stuff -- and treats are, in several ways, small stuff.

-- Anne Moore (M-Tak PWC and one goofy GSD rescue and a silly Golden rescue) in NW Ohio

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10a. Re: Tongue
Posted by: "Bumble1994@aol.com" Bumble1994@aol.com bumble1994
Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 5:17 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 9/23/2007 7:35:36 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, "joannrn02"
writes:

slice it and feed a smalL amount once a week?
If your dog is new to raw, you might want to give a small piece along with
whatever the main meat is, at first, but one he's adjusted to it, there's no
reason to feed small amounts of beef tongue, and seldom. I've fed a couple of
ounces each to my 10 lb. cats every other day until the tongue I had was gone.
They loved it and had no trouble eating even the thick skin part, which I
figured was good for their teeth. It's just meaty meat, not an organ.

I haven't bought any tongue in awhile (have to drive across town to the only
WallyWorld that carries it) but this reminds me that as soon as I get some
of what's in the freezer down, I need to get them some. :)

Lynda

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

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10b. Re: Tongue
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 6:25 pm ((PDT))

I just give my dog a hunk of it every now and then if I have it. He's
a 20 lb. Boston and I'll give him maybe 1/4 lb. of tongue w/some other
meat/bone. I don't cut it up. He rips it apart and chews on it. I'd
try that w/your dog and see how she does. If you want to cut it up,
you can. I think it does tend to loosen up my dog's stool, so if
you're worried about that, go easy on it and feed it w/something
w/bone. You could also just defrost a small hunk and throw in a bite
or 2 with each meal til it's gone. You kind of just have to
experiment. Either go slow, or go for it and back up if you have
issues.

Laurie

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11. Re: baby teeth
Posted by: "Michael Moore" m-tak@sbcglobal.net annemoore2000
Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 5:18 pm ((PDT))

>>I have since acquired a new puppy. Currently he is on raw minced
meat. I'm a little confused as to whether he can have bones, mainly
because he is teething and has very small and wobbly teeth at the
moment. Are bones and poultry necks ok? Would he still be able to
chew them up ok?<<

Jo - you didn't mention how old (I'm assuming around 4 mos. since he's teething) or what breed your new puppy is, but here's my .02 worth. My Corgi puppies could eat bone-in chicken breasts, including the bone, at about 6 wks. Poultry bones in general, and chicken in particular, are quite soft. Most puppies have no trouble with them. I will tell you that my Corgis took a loooooong time to eat bones while they were teething, but still got through them. I say, give the fella some bone-in parts and let him try!
However, except for toy/small breeds, I consider necks rather boney -- unless you add some meaty boneless meat to them.

-- Anne Moore (M-Tak PWC and one goofy GSD rescue and a silly Golden rescue) in NW Ohio

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12a. Re: HELP PLEASE? AVOCADO PIT :(((
Posted by: "cypressbunny" cypressbunny@yahoo.com cypressbunny
Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 5:41 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Cdandp2@... wrote:
>
> Question: How long til we're out of the woods here?

*** I don't think you're really IN the woods, actually. The claims
about avocado being toxic are largely overblown. There is a small
chance that a large pit might be too large for a Cocker to pass, but
given the size of poo I've seen come out of some Cockers, I don't
think so.

> OR, could it become a problem at any time
> down the road even after a few days?

*** Yes, it could become a problem down the road a few days. If the
pit is so large it doesn't want to go through the pylorus, it could
hang around in the stomach for a while, and it could be vomited back
up. Absolutely *worst* case scenario would be hanging around in the
stomach for a while, finally passing the pylorus, and then getting
stuck somewhere in the intestines. I doubt that would happen, but if
it did you would see some signs of pain, possibly worse panting than
he has as a result of heartworm, probably tense and painful belly,
and he may assume strange postures in an attempt to relieve the
discomfort. And, there would be no poo at all.

*** So, as long as he is eating and pooping and acting more or less
normal, I would just continue to keep a careful eye on him but not
panic.

--Carrie

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13a. Re: NEW TO RAW
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 6:01 pm ((PDT))

Michal,

It might be worth it to invest in a freezer! I couldn't get one
right away but now I have one and it really helps to be able to take
advantage of good deals and buy by the case, etc. If you can connect
with any other rawfeeders in your area, too, maybe you all could
share cases, or go in on a lamb together--that kind of thing. Do see
if you can take advantage of some of the fish that's available near
you, if your dogs like it.

They usually are puzzled by that first egg in the shell. :-) Glad
they liked it, though. If they digest that one well, just try a meal
of 2 eggs. Some dogs can tolerate more than others. I wouldn't
really want to make eggs a huge part of the diet--they need primarily
meat, bone, and organs. But I think they would have access to some
eggs in the wild and since you are having trouble finding stuff, just
do what you have to do and if it works for your dogs, it's fine.
Some people do feed eggs more regularly, I think.

Good luck!

Laurie

Messages in this topic (14)
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13b. Re: NEW TO RAW
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 6:05 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Michel!
Welcome to the raw side!

Below is a link to my recommendations to start feeding raw. It
includes The Lis List, which has creative ways to source cheap or raw
meats. I know you aren't in the US, but I'm sure, with a list to spark
ideas from, you can come up with some workable plans.

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/141374
post # 141374

Its pretty long and somewhat detailed, so you may want to print it out
and highlight what is relevant for your situation.

There are indeed craigslists and FreeCycles in France;

http://www.freecycle.org/group/FR/
http://geo.craigslist.org/iso/fr

FreeCycle groups often have Yahoo Groups email lists. If there isn't
one in your area, you could start one! There have been a few people
from this list who have posted that they scored a free freezer through
FreeCycle,or a cheap one through craigslist.

I tend to feed eggs as a squidgey ick organ, just one or two at a
time, and not more than weekly. I might give my girl an egg for a
snack a day or two after she's gorged on a turkey or fresh ham. Its
fun to watch her roll it around with her nose, pick it up, then drop
it. Usually, once its dropped, the game is over, she licks the egg up.
She won't usually eat the shells, np. Some people can and do feed
entire meals of eggs, but I'd be cautious at first, and add an egg one
at a time to meals, until you can figure out and expand their bowel
tolerance. That's really the question you have to answer here - what
is, or can be, each dog's response to an egg meal? Its liable to be
different for each dog. Then again, some dogs have SBDs from eggs, so
it may be the human tolerance for the after meal odor that decides how
many eggs you can feed!

There may be a European counterpart to the yahoo group - carnivore
feed supplier - or some online reptile or zoo suppliers.
Hmmm, I'm extremely limited, as I don't read French, but would this be
helpful at all?
http://64.233.179.104/translate_c?hl=en&u=http://perso.orange.fr/saintlaurentsa/&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dfeeder%2Bmice%2Breptile%26num%3D20%26hl%3Den%26lr%3Dlang_fr%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DG%26as_qdr%3Dy
http://tinyurl.com/262hy2
A supplier like; http://www.livefoods.co.uk/index.php?cPath=24 who
provides frozen whole prey for people who own reptiles or birds of
prey might be possible, if there is one in France.

You said: "Aramis, the younger, will eat anything,
but Victor must have his food held for him to eat. But that is not
the problem for us really."

I can't imagine handfeeding a dog, unless they were ill. ^_^
Why don't you try a few of these suggestions? Waiting for you to
handfeed him is just a variation of "Help, he won't eat it!", a
subject that comes up frequently
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/130758

Message #130758

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/134336

Message #134336

HTHs, Michel, do let us know how you and the dogs progress!
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> We do not have a freezer just a small compartment in our fridge so
> buying in quantity would be difficult unless/until we can find a
> small freezer.
<snip>
> How many eggs can one feed to them at a time? (Standard Poodles- 40
> pounds and 50 pounds)
>
> You asked:
> > Do you have any online buying/selling groups over there (like we
> have craigslist and freecycle)? >>
>
> I have no idea but will continue my research and also act upon your
> suggestion about reposting with a different heading. Super
> idea!!!!!!!!
>
> Michal
>

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14a. Re: Need advice on weight loss for large mixed breed
Posted by: "cockatoos4" cockatoos4@yahoo.com cockatoos4
Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 6:25 pm ((PDT))

Thanks to those who responded. I have not had JinJin's thyroid
checked but will ask the vet about it the next time we go.

> A suggestion; can you get access to a pool?

We live in rural Central Australia. There are no specialist vets in
town--the closest specialist would be a 1,500-km drive or a very
expensive plane flight away, perhaps in Sydney. I don't have access
to a pool where I could let JinJin swim. This was the first thing I
thought of when I opted not to have surgery done on her knee, but
there are no facilities here, nor do any of my friends have pools. We
have 7 months to go before we return to the States, where I know of a
vet specialist who uses swimming as therapy. We'll have to hold out
until then, I'm afraid.
>
>> Can you feed whole prey, including skin, fur, etc.? I'd also vote
for feeding one meal a day. Better yet, I'd probably feed every other
day.

The only food I've been able to get so far with fur is kangaroo tail.
(Food is very expensive here, by the way. People in America don't
realize how lucky they are!) I'll need to do more research about
getting whole prey. I have a relationship with a local butcher, so
I'll inquire. I also would like to try feeding once a day. It'll be
difficult to avoid those pleading eyes at mealtime; our routine has
been to eat two meals a day--JinJin eats when we eat.
>
>
> Take the time to BE with her, and enjoy her. She wouldn't blame you
> even if she could understand the mixture of feelings and misplaced
> guilt you have. We all have regrets, let it go. It'll take as long
as
> it takes, enjoy the journey you are taking together.

Giselle, thank you for your encouragement. JinJin couldn't be more
grateful for her life now after the hard one she lived previously.
And she shows it.

Gemma

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15a. Re: Ham
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 6:29 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Carole!
There fresh ham and then there's salt cured or smoked ham.
You don't want to feed salt cured or smoked hams to your dogs.

This is what I mean when I mention a fresh ham;
http://animalscience.unl.edu/meats/id/Porkcuts/Hamshank.htm

Here's a pic of the whole pig, including the shoulder butt and picnic
shoulder;
http://www.virtualweberbullet.com/meatcharts_photos/porkcuts.pdf

These meat charts are useful for figuring out what's what, and how
much meat/bone there actually might be in a cut;
http://www.virtualweberbullet.com/meatcharts.html
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> Okay, so I'm still new to raw feeding my dogs. I printed out
> the "recipe" page from one of the raw feeding sites and it lists ham as
> a good food source. Isn't ham smoked and full of nitrates? How can
> this be good for the animal?
>
> Carole
>

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16a. ADMIN/Re: Raw TREATS?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 6:34 pm ((PDT))

Please limit treat discussions on Rawfeeding to the whats. The whys,
the whens and especially the how-tos may be discussed as necessary on
RawChat. They are not appropriate for the Rawfeeding list. Thank you.
Chris O
Mod Team

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17a. Re: {Raw Feeding} Hambuger meat
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 6:42 pm ((PDT))

"Brandi Bryant" <bbryant573@...> wrote:
>
> I bought expired hamburger meat that had been markdown "for quick
> sale" with a intend to fix it for myself...well now it's brown:(
*****
That's because the other part was exposed to air. It has rusted. You
can cook it for yourself if you choose.

Or you can feed it raw to the dogs. It is a filler of tummies just as
any other raw beef meat is a filler. While ground meat is not the
nutritional bingo food that whole meats are, it is fine to feed
especially when tossing it would be throwing away money.

Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

18a. Re: Houston meat suppliers - Anyone have suggestions?
Posted by: "labcope" labcope@yahoo.com labcope
Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 6:48 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "kaylsraven" <kaylsraven@...>
wrote:
>
> > I was wondering if anyone in Houston or the SE Texas area had a
> > reliable supplier they buy from?
>
Hi - I bought around 150 lbs of emu meat recently. Mostly Legs (they
are 10-15lbs each), necks, hearts, trachea and gizzard. The dogs
love
it all EXCEPT the gizzards. Fortunately I didn't get many of them.
The
meat is very red and lean.

Here is Ray's webpage with pictures of the meat. You can call or
email
him and he will meet you somewhere. It was very reasonable, close to
$1 lb.

http://www.emuoildepot.com/emu_meat.htm

ray@emuoildepot.com

I may have a goat connection soon - I'll keep you posted.

Lori C

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

19a. Re: parts is parts
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 6:50 pm ((PDT))

"jmwise80" <jmwise80@...> wrote:

> When it came to the back legs, though, he would put them down and
walk
> away with no interest in them at all. I just picked 'em up to
sneak
> into another meal later.
>
> Any ideas why the back legs weren't eaten?
*****
He may have been full. The tail is not much meat but a whole lotta
fiber (let us know what his stools are like!).

The back legs might have been too tough for him? Or, too tough for
him after having already eaten the tail and front legs?

Not hardly the same thing, but when my golden bitch eats baby goat,
she starts at the head and works her way back and so far has ALWAYS
eaten everthing but the two hind legs.

Maybe it's in their contract.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (2)
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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12062

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Ham
From: Karen Swanay
1b. Re: Ham
From: Sandee Lee
1c. Re: Ham
From: Sandee Lee

2a. {Raw Feeding} Quick Question
From: Brandi Bryant
2b. "Feeding} Quick Question
From: tottime47

3. Raw TREATS?
From: skyli_19

4a. Re: Pet Food Recall (BRAVO)
From: Penny
4b. Re: Pet Food Recall (BRAVO)
From: Penny

5a. New to group & Questions
From: T Smith
5b. Re: New to group & Questions
From: Sandee Lee

6.1. File - Other related lists
From: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com

7a. File - Admin-Trim it, Sign it, and Sig lines-PLEASE READ!!!
From: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com

8a. Re: HELP PLEASE? AVOCADO PIT :(((
From: delcaste
8b. Re: HELP PLEASE? AVOCADO PIT :(((
From: Cdandp2@aol.com

9a. {Raw Feeding} Hambuger meat
From: Brandi Bryant
9b. Re: {Raw Feeding} Hambuger meat
From: Sandee Lee

10a. Tongue
From: joannrn02
10b. Re: Tongue
From: tottime47
10c. Re: Tongue
From: Caren OConnor
10d. Re: Tongue
From: Yasuko herron

11.1. New to raw
From: Cris Milam

12. Re: I tried and raw is just not going to work. I tried and raw is j
From: Bumble1994@aol.com

13. parts is parts
From: jmwise80

14a. Baby Teeth
From: Jo Ors
14b. Re: Baby Teeth
From: Maofryan@aol.com

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Re: Ham
Posted by: "Karen Swanay" luvbullbreeds@gmail.com kswanay1111
Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 11:54 am ((PDT))

ham is NOT real food. It is processed and should not be fed. Although I
have run across the occassional person that used the word "ham" when they
mean "pork" or use the term "picnic ham" when they mean "pork shoulder".
Pork is OK...ham is not. Unless you are using it as a training
treat/occassional snacky item. But yes, full of artificial stuff.
Karen

On 9/23/07, carolejc2007 <mooska2me@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> Okay, so I'm still new to raw feeding my dogs. I printed out
> the "recipe" page from one of the raw feeding sites and it lists ham as
> a good food source. Isn't ham smoked and full of nitrates? How can
> this be good for the animal?
>
> Carole
>
>
>

--
"Family isn't about whose blood you have. It's about who you care about."

LOI 1/26/07
PA 3/22/07
DTC 8/10/07
Disclaimer: Any errors in spelling, tact, or fact are transmission errors.

~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________

1b. Re: Ham
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:13 pm ((PDT))

Carole,

Look for raw unprocessed hams...great food with nice tough tooth-cleaning
skin! :)

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "carolejc2007" <mooska2me@sbcglobal.net>

Okay, so I'm still new to raw feeding my dogs. I printed out
the "recipe" page from one of the raw feeding sites and it lists ham as
a good food source. Isn't ham smoked and full of nitrates? How can
this be good for the animal?

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________

1c. Re: Ham
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:23 pm ((PDT))

The ham is the back shank portion of the pig. In the shoulder area there
are two cuts....shoulder butt and picnic shoulder. Fed raw and unprocessed,
they are all wonderful cuts, worthy of feeding.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Karen Swanay" <luvbullbreeds@gmail.com>

> ham is NOT real food. It is processed and should not be fed. Although I
> have run across the occassional person that used the word "ham" when they
> mean "pork" or use the term "picnic ham" when they mean "pork shoulder".
> Pork is OK...ham is not. Unless you are using it as a training
> treat/occassional snacky item. But yes, full of artificial stuff.

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

2a. {Raw Feeding} Quick Question
Posted by: "Brandi Bryant" bbryant573@gmail.com bbryant573
Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 11:54 am ((PDT))

I like the fact that you can throw down a big pork shoulder and let
them eat... My question is I have 2 puppies..and 2 adult dogs...

When they get full will they walk away from their meals? Even my 5
month old puppy?

Thanks -

--
Brandi
Bartlesville, Ok
www.obediencetrainingclubofbartlesville.com

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________

2b. "Feeding} Quick Question
Posted by: "tottime47" tottime@aol.com tottime47
Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:21 pm ((PDT))

Hi Brandi,

I think this is when "know your dog" is most important.

I have one who would walk away from a gold mine once he's full.
He's always been fed, so he knows food will come again.

I have another little chow hound (terrier) that will chow, rest for a
few minutes, then chow some more, lol.....
I think she'd continue till it was gone or she popped, whichever came
first. So, I have to stay close and remove the extra once she's had
her share....

Carol, Charkee (the gentleman, lol) & Moli(who's a chow hound?)

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Brandi Bryant" <bbryant573@...>
wrote:

>
> When they get full will they walk away from their meals? Even my 5
> month old puppy?
> Brandi

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

3. Raw TREATS?
Posted by: "skyli_19" NRB19@aol.com skyli_19
Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 11:55 am ((PDT))

Any recommendations for raw treats that I can carry in my pocket?
Maggie is about to start agility training. I have never trained her
with treats but this group does and it seems to work really well for
the pups learning. The trainer worked with Mag a bit and she used meat
bits but were so tiny maggie got bored so she switched to string
cheese. I had to bite my tongue because I wasn't comfortable with the
dairy...but Maggie loved it and took to the training very fast. Any
opinions on dairy for treats?

I thought maybe I could cut up liver and freeze it. Well, any meat for
that matter. But I don't know that it will stay frozen long and squishy
pockets don't appeal to me. What have you all used?

Nicole & Maggie

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

4a. Re: Pet Food Recall (BRAVO)
Posted by: "Penny" redpenn2003@yahoo.com redpenn2003
Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:03 pm ((PDT))

Hi Frankie.

Because if they didnt recall it...it would go against one of thier lies as to why you should not feed a species appropriate raw meaty bones diet!

Samonelli, ecollit, etc are common contaminates found EVERYWHERE! When the dogs are fed unnatural food they are more suseptable. The healthier the body is...no chemicals, proper nutrition....the better the dog is able to handle these things.

I do not know what listeria is. Maybe some others can add....

Penny

doguenanny <Dixie4911@aol.com> wrote:
L...... Why are they recalling
it because of salmonella? I feed raw chicken, doesn't that contain
salmonella? How do I respond to my "good intentioned" friends when
they ask about this recall? I've already been through the "raw chicken
and salmonella" speech with them. Why would salmonella in a frozen
prepackaged dog food be any different from the salmonella in the fresh
chicken I feed?.

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Messages in this topic (3)
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4b. Re: Pet Food Recall (BRAVO)
Posted by: "Penny" redpenn2003@yahoo.com redpenn2003
Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:09 pm ((PDT))

Ohh my...please forgive me for all those typos!!!!! How embarrassing


Penny

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Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

5a. New to group & Questions
Posted by: "T Smith" coldbeach@gmail.com lhasaspots
Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:09 pm ((PDT))

Hello,
I just joined. I tried a variation of raw several years ago but it didn't
work out.
A member of your group I know irl has again talked to me about the 'real'
raw diet.
I have been doing nothing but reading since then but I do have a couple of
issues/questions I cannot seem to find an answer to.

1. This is very important for me. I believe in the feeding of raw & the
reasons why. I personallly choose to be a vegetarian but will NOT do this
to my dogs, their bodies, I understand, are not like ours. So, with this
said, I want to know about this who body feeding. I honestly do not find
myself able to feed (guts, intestines, etc) & seeing my dogs tearing it up
like that. I won't be able to handle it at all. I'm a wimp. I literally
have nightmares about such just thinking about it. Is there a GOOD simple
guideline I can use?
I've no issue with the bones, feeding chicken, lamb, etc.....but I am
wanting to feed the right amount & variety. I need the weight ratio since I
have Danes.

2. Probably a stupid question: Will feeding raw (like the whole bodies)
cause prey instinct?

I am thankful to the one page I did read about the fish & the information
about the PNW salmon not to be fed. Since I live in the PNW, this was GREAT
info for me!

I cannot stand the smell of liver so I will need to find another form of
training treats....

I plan to make sure I have everything organized & set up before I make this
drastic change for my dogs' benefit.
Thank you for letting me join.
Trina
--

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________

5b. Re: New to group & Questions
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:53 pm ((PDT))

Hi Trina,

There are many vegetarians on the list who started out squeamish and are now
delving into intestines, etc! LOL Actually intestines aren't necessary,
but organs are. You do not have to feed entire animals in order to feed
prey model. What you do is feed a variety of body parts from a variety of
sources and call it sufficient. Most people are not able to throw an entire
cow into their yard and let the dogs go at it! :)

You can feed whole chickens, turkeys, rabbits, fish....and BTW that info you
found about not feeding salmon is incorrect! There is the possibility of
fresh caught fish in the PNW carrying a fluke, but it is killed by freezing
the fish. Commercial fish has already been frozen.

A really easy way to begin is get a few chickens, cut them in half or
quarters and hand to dogs. Feed approximately 2-3% of their ideal adult
weight. Once they have adjusted, start adding in beef, lamb, pork, whatever
you can get your hands on. Overall you are going to be feeding lots and
lots of meat (close to 80% of the diet), a little edible bone and organs, so
once they get used to the chicken you will want to add some nice meaty
meals.

You might want to visit the rawfeeding myth site where you will find the
answer to your prey instinct question..and be sure to look at Colby the
"killer".....
http://rawfed.com/myths/index.html
http://rawfed.com/myths/bloodthirsty.html

Also check out Kevin's recipe section where you will see real dogs eating
real food...that will give you more ideas of what we are feeding...
http://rawfeddogs.net

Don't I know you from a Dane list somewhere in the past????

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "T Smith" <coldbeach@gmail.com>

> I've no issue with the bones, feeding chicken, lamb, etc.....but I am
> wanting to feed the right amount & variety. I need the weight ratio since
I
> have Danes.
>
> 2. Probably a stupid question: Will feeding raw (like the whole bodies)
> cause prey instinct?
>
> I am thankful to the one page I did read about the fish & the information
> about the PNW salmon not to be fed. Since I live in the PNW, this was
GREAT
> info for me!

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

6.1. File - Other related lists
Posted by: "rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com" rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:43 pm ((PDT))

This list is part of a group of lists run by the same moderation team. Since several of the lists are quite large we often encourage that threads be taken to some of the smaller subject specific lists so you may want to join the lists that cover issues you are interested in now.

The lists are:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/oldrawguys/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/catandkittenhealth/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/learntoshow/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawcat/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DogHealth/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CarnivoreFeed-Supplier/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dogmentor/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawChat/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawbreeder/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawPup/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RMBLobby/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/canineaggression/

And if you are stuck on a particular issue that you just can't seem to work out, try this list:

http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/rawissues

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BasicRaw/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalFerrets/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawVet/
For vets, vet techs and vet students only

There is also a list of lists where other raw feeding lists can be found. Many are breed specific, location specific or subject specific.

http://www.rawlearning.com

Thanks from the moderation team!

Messages in this topic (118)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

7a. File - Admin-Trim it, Sign it, and Sig lines-PLEASE READ!!!
Posted by: "rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com" rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:43 pm ((PDT))

Hello all! (Don't delete without reading. Yes, there is a test later.)

Firstly, the raw feeding list was established in 1999. It has evolved under a couple of different names, but remains with primarily the same list moderation team.

This primary objective of the list is to provide a place where people who
feed raw food or who want to feed raw can discuss this and closely associated issues.

This is not a list to discuss which kibble or home cooking method is best.
There are other email lists that can provide you with that sort of forum.
The forum here is specifically to discuss appropriate raw diets.

*******A learning environment

We aim at all times to maintain a learning environment.
Every so often someone joins the list with a different agenda.
We work hard in the background to do everything we can to keep discussion on topic at all times, and those who don't find the environment comfortable (about 0.5%), we encourage to join other more suitable email lists.

The most important thing is you join a group you are comfortable with.
We acknowledge the vast differences that exist between people and their learning styles, and as you'll appreciate we can't make everyone happy.

Now for a few of the easy rules:

*******PLEASE TRIM YOUR POSTS

This means when you are replying to an email DO NOT include the ENTIRE EMAIL in your reply.

You can include a SMALL portion of the email you are replying to. Try to stick to a couple of relevant lines.

Delete all headers and footers.

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This means when you are to sign your name at the bottom of every single mail you send to the list.

List members who continue to send unsigned posts after being warned risk having their mail deleted!!

**********CHANGE THE SUBJECT LINE WHEN THE SUBJECT CHANGES
This is a high volume list. Changing subject lines allows people to delete those messages that are topics they have no interest in. IF you change subject lines properly then when responding to a post of the same subject you should not have to include ANY of the email you are responding too since those reading the thread will be able to follow it anyway.

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Thanks so much.

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Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

8a. Re: HELP PLEASE? AVOCADO PIT :(((
Posted by: "delcaste" delcaste@yahoo.com delcaste
Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:51 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Cdandp2@... wrote:
>
> First of all THANK YOU to all who responded to my post.
>
> So far so good. Nothing out of the ordinary. He seems fine.

Hi Carol. I'm in Miami and have a neighbor's HUGE avocado tree
spreading trunks into my back yard. I have to be quicker than the dogs
to get any avocados for myself ;). They eat it all and have never been
sick. I'm sure Spencer will be ok.

Silvina

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

8b. Re: HELP PLEASE? AVOCADO PIT :(((
Posted by: "Cdandp2@aol.com" Cdandp2@aol.com cdandp
Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:52 pm ((PDT))

continuing saga....

OK, so he pooped a little bit this morning (his usual very dark, compact,
teeny bit with some straining)...no evidence of any pits or bits of pit.

He ate breakfast (just small portion of cut up beef heart) and seemed fine.

It's 7 hours later and he's doing this little coughy/semi-gaggy thing every
now and then (but he's done that before)...and he's pacing waiting for his
supper.

Question: How long til we're out of the woods here? His digestion runs on
the slow side, so maybe tomorrow? OR, could it become a problem at any time
down the road even after a few days?

And, regarding the blue bandage. They're a mysteray for sure at times...

Thanks for the concern and encouragement.

Carol for Spencer (the heartworm just swallowed an avocado pit to add to the
drama guy....sigh)

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

9a. {Raw Feeding} Hambuger meat
Posted by: "Brandi Bryant" bbryant573@gmail.com bbryant573
Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:52 pm ((PDT))

I bought expired hamburger meat that had been markdown "for quick
sale" with a intend to fix it for myself...well now it's brown:(

It's 80% lean, can I feed it to the dogs along with their other meals?
I think someone said that it was just a filler? But I hate for it to
go to waste...

--
Brandi
Bartlesville, Ok
www.obediencetrainingclubofbartlesville.com

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________

9b. Re: {Raw Feeding} Hambuger meat
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:57 pm ((PDT))

You can feed it...no problem! Generally it is recommended to not feed
ground meat unless you find a sale you just cannot pass up...but that's
mainly because there is no tooth cleaning action and they can gobble it down
pretty quickly. But for an occasional meal, go for it! :)

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Brandi Bryant" <bbryant573@gmail.com>

> I bought expired hamburger meat that had been markdown "for quick
> sale" with a intend to fix it for myself...well now it's brown:(
>
> It's 80% lean, can I feed it to the dogs along with their other meals?
> I think someone said that it was just a filler? But I hate for it to
> go to waste...

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

10a. Tongue
Posted by: "joannrn02" joannrn02@yahoo.com joannrn02
Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:52 pm ((PDT))

My small Cairn has been on raw for a few weeks, I just found a store
that sells beef tongue.
Now that I have it, what do I do with it?
Cook it into a stew like someone said or slice it and feed a smalL
amount once a week?
Thanks
JO.

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________

10b. Re: Tongue
Posted by: "tottime47" tottime@aol.com tottime47
Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 1:21 pm ((PDT))

Hi Jo,

Tongue is a tougher meat, so I have to chunk it up for my small dogs.

You could try a larger piece and see if your dog can eat it that way,
that's the best way....

It's a great meat to feed once the dog is used to eating variety.

If you're just starting off, give him a little bit with the next few
meals and see how he does.

Carol, Charkee & Moli (Yep, we love it!)

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "joannrn02" <joannrn02@...> wrote:

> My small Cairn has been on raw for a few weeks, I just found a
store
> that sells beef tongue.
> Now that I have it, what do I do with it?

> Thanks
> JO.

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________

10c. Re: Tongue
Posted by: "Caren OConnor" cavkist@yahoo.com cavkist
Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 2:19 pm ((PDT))

Hi Jo -
I've fed tongue, but it's been a while. I believe I (please don't shoot me rawfeeders) roasted it
then cut it into small portions and fed it that way. As I best recall, my Cavaliers wouldn't eat it raw.
I need to find some more. I'm glad you posted this.
Caren O'Connor
Nansemond Cavaliers
joannrn02 <joannrn02@yahoo.com> wrote:
My small Cairn has been on raw for a few weeks, I just found a store
that sells beef tongue.
Now that I have it, what do I do with it?
Cook it into a stew like someone said or slice it and feed a smalL
amount once a week?
Thanks
JO.

---------------------------------
Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
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10d. Re: Tongue
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 2:44 pm ((PDT))

>Tongue is a tougher meat, so I have to chunk it up for my small dogs.

Hi.I agree. It is tougher meat andI think it is a little fattier than boneless meat (just my feeling).So,I think better to start from small amount and see how much the dog can torelate well will be good idea to try I think.

I keep writing couple of times in the past,but my dog can eat and torelate pork/beef/Elk/Buffalo tongue pretty well but lamb tongue.

She is 35lb dog but can torelate 1oz of lamb tongue only.More than that makes softer loose stool and I end up needing wiping her butt.I am planning to build up thetorelencewith lamb tongue too.

It is bit yucky to handle Tongues but dogs seem to like a lot.

yassy

---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
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11.1. New to raw
Posted by: "Cris Milam" cmilam@comcast.net cris_milam
Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 2:20 pm ((PDT))

Welcome, fellow grey owner! Congrats on the new diet for your dog.
Obviously, she is enjoying it.

Most, if not all, of the problems you are having will spontaneously take
care of themselves.

Her breath will get even better -- to the point where you will hardly be
able to smell it.

Her stinky gas should stop very soon. I think you are having problems only
because she is transitioning off of kibble.

She will get to where she poops about once a day. It will be very small so
don't get freaked about that, either. She may even wait another day or two
before having her first post-raw poop.

The easiest way to start your dog on chicken is to get a whole one and feed
it until it is gone. This way you won't have to worry about too much or too
little bone. Over time, you will find out whether your dog needs a bit
extra bone or a bit extra organ to stay regular.

Since you didn't mention your grey's body type in relation to her weight,
there isn't much way to tell if she needs more than 2-3% of her body weight
in food daily. Duncan weighed a super skinny 73 pounds, needed desperately
to gain weight, has a high metabolism and ate 3 pounds a day. I expect that
means 3-4 pounds for your dog is too much. I'm sure she is happy to eat
that much, but overfeeding her will cause loose stools as well as making her
fat. Personally, I would feed her 2 pounds a day and watch her ribs. In a
couple of days, you will be able to tell if you can/should add more food or
take some away.

Oh, and you might want to stay away from the liver for a few days anyway.
It can cause some severe loose poops very quickly. By the time you need to
feed it, she may have decided that she likes it.

As a caveat, she will probably blow her coat big time with the change in
diet. That's normal, too. You and your broom will become close friends.

Greyt to have you here.

Cris M

Messages in this topic (40)
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12. Re: I tried and raw is just not going to work. I tried and raw is j
Posted by: "Bumble1994@aol.com" Bumble1994@aol.com bumble1994
Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 2:44 pm ((PDT))

Seems to me that he's training you very nicely, there! Of course he will
stop eating if he's found he can get something better by refusing what you give
him. :)

Lynda

In a message dated 9/23/2007 2:02:37 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
"one_sojourner_one" writes:

Then he started totally refusing the
chicken and would not eat a meal. I then offered a steak and he ate
the appropriate amount for about a day.

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (1)
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13. parts is parts
Posted by: "jmwise80" jmwise80@yahoo.com jmwise80
Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 2:44 pm ((PDT))

I've tried to get my dog to eat whole prey, fur and all, to no avail.
He did show more interest in wild squirrel, so I'm not giving up on
that route yet.

While cleaning a squirrel earlier today, he stole the tail. Ate it.
Then he took one of the front legs. Ate it, then the other front leg.
When it came to the back legs, though, he would put them down and walk
away with no interest in them at all. I just picked 'em up to sneak
into another meal later.

Any ideas why the back legs weren't eaten? Thanks all!

Michael Wise

Messages in this topic (1)
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14a. Baby Teeth
Posted by: "Jo Ors" houndshappy@yahoo.co.uk houndshappy
Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 3:22 pm ((PDT))

Hi all
I'm not new here, but have only just posted!
I switched to raw in June for my two dogs, who responded so well to it
and I really enjoy feeding them proper food. Can't think why it didn't
occur to me sooner to be honest.
I have since acquired a new puppy. Currently he is on raw minced
meat. I'm a little confused as to whether he can have bones, mainly
because he is teething and has very small and wobbly teeth at the
moment. Are bones and poultry necks ok? Would he still be able to
chew them up ok?
Many thanks for your advice in advance.
Jo

Messages in this topic (2)
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14b. Re: Baby Teeth
Posted by: "Maofryan@aol.com" Maofryan@aol.com waldorfsarah
Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 4:35 pm ((PDT))

Jo
My puppies graduate from Goats milk and minced meat to chicken wings and
necks around 5 weeks....and never look back. Go for it. It will help with
teething and with getting rid of puppy teeth...and getting the adult teeth
erupted. Full steam ahead! Sarah Waldorf, Konigsdorf Shepherds

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

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Messages in this topic (2)
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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12061

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. pregnant yorkie
From: Julie Howard

2. Pregnant and Lactating moms
From: Northland Bordeaux - Mark and Cindy McEld

3a. Help - Ready to quit
From: Cindy Marabito
3b. Re: Help - Ready to quit
From: costrowski75

4a. Help! Creative solutions req'd...
From: Cris Milam

5a. Re: I tried and raw is just not going to work.
From: one_sojourner_one
5b. Re: I tried and raw is just not going to work.
From: Maofryan@aol.com
5c. Re: I tried and raw is just not going to work.
From: tottime47
5d. Re: I tried and raw is just not going to work.
From: Denise Strother

6.1. New to raw
From: sarahmay7
6.2. Re: New to raw
From: costrowski75

7a. Cat with sensitive stomach
From: Elizabeth
7b. Re: Cat with sensitive stomach
From: Casey Post
7c. Re: Cat with sensitive stomach
From: Elizabeth

8a. Re: raw meaty bones.
From: tottime47

9.1. newbie
From: Michelle Grabert

10a. Re: Need advice on weight loss for large mixed breed
From: Casey Post

11a. Re: NEW TO RAW
From: Michal Cline
11b. Re: NEW TO RAW
From: Yasuko herron

12a. Re: Bone shards in cat vomit
From: Bumble1994@aol.com

13a. Re: you want to feed 2 - 3 % of their ESTIMATED adult weight.
From: costrowski75

14a. Re: HELP PLEASE? AVOCADO PIT :(((
From: costrowski75

15. Ham
From: carolejc2007

16a. Re: Just moved to raw
From: carolejc2007

17a. Re: raw salmon
From: Stephanie Cassin

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1. pregnant yorkie
Posted by: "Julie Howard" jonel@sbcglobal.net chyorks
Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 7:10 am ((PDT))

I have been feeding raw for approximately 4 months. I now have a pregnant 6# yorkie who is 3 weeks into her pregnancy.

Should I add anything to this diet to insure an optimal pregnancy? This is not her first litter, but first litter on the raw diet.
Julie
Kokomo, IN

Julie M. Howard
Jo-Nel Reg'd Yorkshire Terriers & Chinese Cresteds
jonel@sbcglobal.net

http://www.jonelyorkies.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (1)
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2. Pregnant and Lactating moms
Posted by: "Northland Bordeaux - Mark and Cindy McEld" mcelderry2@aol.com northlandbordeaux
Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 7:11 am ((PDT))

Hi,
I am fairly new to the all raw diet. I have not as yet put pregnant or
nursing moms on the raw meat. Most of my crew has switched over and it
is only a matter of time before I have a female that is on all raw come
into heat. Does anyone know if there are any concerns about feeding raw
while pregnant? It seems to me they should do really well but I just
don't know.

Mark


Cindy and Mark McElderry
Northland Bordeaux
815-627-2010
www.northland-bordeaux.com <http://www.northland-bordeaux.com/>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (1)
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3a. Help - Ready to quit
Posted by: "Cindy Marabito" doggirl1@earthlink.net rowdycowgirl50
Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 7:12 am ((PDT))

Dolores...This might not agree with some people, but I feed chicken/
beef/turkey to my dogs and cats with only the occasional quail for
the cats. They get the appropriate recommended percentage with lots
of organ meats and bone. We have a great raw feeders co-op where I
live, so access is not problem. I am only piping in here to share
what's been working with me and the animals in my care and my rescue
for years with great results. Cindy

Messages in this topic (6)
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3b. Re: Help - Ready to quit
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 9:17 am ((PDT))

"schnauzers1015" <havanese1@...> wrote:
>Should I stop trying with the
> pork? or what?
*****
Definitely the "or what."
Take your time.
Instead of smacking the dog in the gut with a new protein, introduce it
more gently by adding small amounts of pork to the chicken meals he
does well on. Some dogs taken gutsmacking in stride, others need to go
gradually into new foods. This is fine. Flexibility of approach is
good for both of you.

Go back to chicken, stablize, then add bits and pieces of pork to the
meal. However long it takes to get there is how long it takes.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (6)
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4a. Help! Creative solutions req'd...
Posted by: "Cris Milam" cmilam@comcast.net cris_milam
Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 7:12 am ((PDT))

Rachel,

In addtion to Bill's ideas, you could call the park you will be staying at
and ask for the phone numbers of local grocery stores/Wal-Mart. I'll bet
you could get a butcher to freeze a couple of those bags of chickens super
solid. That way, they will stay fresher with less ice at the campsite.

BTW, remember to put the ice chest in your closed car at night. Raccoons
and bears would find your dog's meals quite the treat.

Have fun!

Cris M

Messages in this topic (5)
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5a. Re: I tried and raw is just not going to work.
Posted by: "one_sojourner_one" onesojourner@gmail.com one_sojourner_one
Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 8:05 am ((PDT))

ok I will give out some history. We have been trying raw for about a
week. We started with boneless chicken breasts. To get him to eat them
we had to cook the outside briefly and cover it with garlic powder. We
did that for a few days. He was eating about 1/3 what he should have
been. We did that for a few days. Then he started totally refusing the
chicken and would not eat a meal. I then offered a steak and he ate
the appropriate amount for about a day.

-peter

Messages in this topic (10)
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5b. Re: I tried and raw is just not going to work.
Posted by: "Maofryan@aol.com" Maofryan@aol.com waldorfsarah
Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 9:03 am ((PDT))

Peter
I have 27 dogs here...they all eat raw. Your dog is a dog, just like any
other dog. Stop cooking, and stop worrying. Your dog will not starve
itself to death. Take a look at your OWN worrying about if your dog is eating or
not. This sound like your own issue. If he doesn't eat...skip that meal and
try again at the next meal. If your dog is overweight, he might natually
miss a couple of meals...and it would be good for him/her.

I have been feeding raw for 13 years. I have NEVER had ONE dog not eat
raw. Sarah Waldorf, Konigsdorf Shepherds

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (10)
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5c. Re: I tried and raw is just not going to work.
Posted by: "tottime47" tottime@aol.com tottime47
Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 9:04 am ((PDT))

Hi Peter,

I have a small dog who was on kibble for 9yrs, hand feed and fed on
demand too! Now, if I can get him to change to raw you can too.

You know it's the best way to feed and will add many healthy years
to his life.
If for no other reason, that's a good one for not giving up!

How to do it? You start by trying different things with the meat.
Start with chicken.

Cut up chunks or strips and sear lightly in olive oil or butter.Try
smearing some type of
sauce on them that he likes or mixing them in sauce. Some dogs will
even eat cheese whiz, lol. Whatever he likes, as long as he eats it.

Doesn't want to eat that? Try putting on a plate, sit down at the
table for your meal and
toss him his, lol. I've never known a dog to refuse "table food".

I played fetch with chicken feet for weeks, then one day he took off
with it to chew!
He still can't eat them if the bones aren't crushed for him, but will
if he can get it chewed up!

Also when dogs start, they will eat a large meal and skip or eat
lightly the next time, sometimes for several meals.

Sometimes you have to break up the bones, I use a hammer.

I have even ground up chicken legs and breasts in my grinder.....
very soft bones so they grind easily.....

Think outside the box to get him started. Lots of new to raw dogs
find this very strange, mine did and didn't have a clue about whether
or not it was good to eat. I had to hand feed
him for months, lol. I think he was scared of the meat. He still
needs encouragement when I introduce a new meat! This week is
alligator, lol......

It would be wise to good back and read some of the posts from
other "new to raw feeders" tons of good suggestions given.

Just seeing the improvements in my dog has made every trial I've had
worth it a million times over.......

Every time he's hungry, watching him bounce, dance and bark, well you
know you've finally got a dog that's on his way!

Good luck and just don't give up..........

Carol, Charkee & Moli(they said I wouldn't raw eat either, I showed
them!)

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "one_sojourner_one"
<onesojourner@...> wrote:

We have been trying raw for about a
> week. He was eating about 1/3 what he should have
> been. We did that for a few days. Then he started totally refusing
the
> chicken and would not eat a meal.

> -peter

Messages in this topic (10)
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5d. Re: I tried and raw is just not going to work.
Posted by: "Denise Strother" denisestrother@yahoo.com denisestrother
Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 11:02 am ((PDT))

Peter,
I run a dog daycare and foster dogs. I have switched all kinds and
ages of dogs to raw. ANY dog can be switched to raw, if the owner
makes the decision and is committed to it. All you have to do is stick
to your guns, no dog will starve itself to death. I have seen dogs
hold out for up to 5 or 6 days. Just be aware that not eating for
several days is not as debilitating a dogs system as it is ours.
Wolves still have enough energy to hunt even after days without food.
Don't cave. Just remember you are doing what's best for your dog. If
he was smart enough to make these kinds of decisions, he would be
taking care of you instead of the other way around. Denise

Peter
I have 27 dogs here...they all eat raw. Your dog is a dog, just like
any other dog.

Messages in this topic (10)
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6.1. New to raw
Posted by: "sarahmay7" sarah@kenetxsys.com sarahmay7
Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 8:05 am ((PDT))

MODERATORS NOTE:SIGN YOUR MAILS!!!

I have a Greyhound so far she seems to be enjoying the raw. She loves the organ meat except
for liver. The meaty bones take her a while to finally decide to eat them. She is very lazy and I
think it requires her to much work. She will just have to get over it. I love to watch her eat the
meaty bones. Her breath has improved 100% but the other end smell much worse. I'm sure
once her body adjusts this will get better. She hasn't pooped in 2 days and I just started raw
3 days ago. She used to poop as many as 4 or 5 times a day. She doesn't seem to be
uncomfortable or anything. I'm sure its soon to come.
Do our dogs go through carb withdraw? Headache, dizziness? Like I do when I try to cutout
carbs? Just curious. Also, I have been feeding her a good helping of gizzards, hearts and
necks in the morning then a chicken quarter in the evening but she still acts hungry. She is
60 lbs. and I figure she needs about 2 lbs of food a day I have been feeding her 3 - 4 lbs to
appeases her. Should I stop giving her so much and just try to stick to 2lbs a day?
Thanks for all the information.

Messages in this topic (39)
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6.2. Re: New to raw
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 10:20 am ((PDT))

"sarahmay7" <sarah@...> wrote:
> I have a Greyhound so far she seems to be enjoying the raw. She
loves the organ meat except
> for liver.
*****
You've only been feeding raw for three days. Quit worrying about the
liver! Calm down, breathe, stick to your chicken for a while. Liver
can wait.

The meaty bones take her a while to finally decide to eat them.
*****
What bones other than chicken have you fed?

the other end smell much worse. I'm sure
> once her body adjusts this will get better
*****
Yes, and you can help by taking your time with the amount you feed
AND the variety you feed. Go slow, be conservative with both. The
most common cause of loose stool is TOO MUCH. Too much meal, too
much fat, too much variety, too soon.

She hasn't pooped in 2 days and I just started raw
> 3 days ago. She used to poop as many as 4 or 5 times a day. She
doesn't seem to be
> uncomfortable or anything. I'm sure its soon to come.
*****
It will. But if she's not pooping, what's so stinky about the "other
end"?

She's eating food that far and away more bio-available than kibble
is, that dramatically decreases stool volume. My guess is that AM
meal you're feeding puts way too much bone into her, and along with a
more digestible food, she also she's constipated. If/when she shows
discomfort you may want to lube the system with boneless meat or some
liver or even a spoon of olive oil if you are desperate or she is.

> Do our dogs go through carb withdraw? Headache, dizziness? Like I
do when I try to cutout
> carbs? Just curious.
*****
Perhaps, although I've never seen any such response from the dogs
I've moved to raw. Even the weekend dogs that go back to kibble when
they leave my care appear not only unbothered but also dee-lighted.

Also, I have been feeding her a good helping of gizzards, hearts and
> necks in the morning then a chicken quarter in the evening but she
still acts hungry.
******
Ditch the necks. Although you have done well by including hearts and
gizzards with them, they--when fed in a diet that also includes leg
quarters--are too much bone. A leg quarter a day, regardless of how
much meat you feed in the other meal, is plenty enough edible bone.
No need to over do it.

If you want to feed a meaty AM meal but are afraid of loose stools
give one back or one neck with the meat. She really doesn't need any
more bone but many people get so stressed out by loose stool that
perhaps a bit of over indulgence may be required. If you do not need
the comfort level of that bit of AM bone, don't feed it.

> 60 lbs. and I figure she needs about 2 lbs of food a day I have
been feeding her 3 - 4 lbs to
> appeases her. Should I stop giving her so much and just try to
stick to 2lbs a day?
*****
It's good she's liking her new food. Don't overfeed her though.

Two pounds is plenty for a 60lb dog. Two percent is just under a
pound and a quarter of food a day; three percent is just under two
pounds. You do not have to feed her more unless she clearly needs
(not wants) more. Greys should be lean and athletic. If you're
trying to put on weight, proceed more slowly; if you're trying to
maintain weight, feed less.

Chris O

Messages in this topic (39)
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7a. Cat with sensitive stomach
Posted by: "Elizabeth" rainsou1@yahoo.com rainsou1
Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 8:05 am ((PDT))

My roommate would like to put her cat on raw, but the cat has a few
issues my friend is concerned would not go over well with raw. I am
posting on her behalf because she does not belong to the group or have
a Yahoo account. Anyways, the cat is 13 yrs old, and has a sensitive
stomach, and vomits nearly everyday for some reason or another. My
friend currently has her eating HSD, sensitive stomach formula. She is
concerned that the cat could not handle raw because of her age, and
her stomach issues. She told me that when the cat would cat a mouse,
it be in the middle of eating it, and actually vomit on the mouse! So,
any suggestions of how to make the transition easier? Thanks in advance!

-Liz

Messages in this topic (3)
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7b. Re: Cat with sensitive stomach
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 8:15 am ((PDT))

>>Anyways, the cat is 13 yrs old, and has a sensitive
> stomach, and vomits nearly everyday for some reason or another.

Thirteen, frequent vomiting - if this cat hasn't been tested for
hyperthyroidism already, that would definitely be my next step.

>So,
> any suggestions of how to make the transition easier?

Small, frequent meals, room temperature (not cold from the fridge), avoid
enhanced meats, etc. Try many different meats - some cats are more likely
to toss up one particular meat more than another, so don't be shy about
trying anything and everything.

I will also say that I switched my old girl at 14 and she's 20 now - my only
regret is not switching her sooner!

Casey

Messages in this topic (3)
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7c. Re: Cat with sensitive stomach
Posted by: "Elizabeth" rainsou1@yahoo.com rainsou1
Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 9:07 am ((PDT))

Thirteen, frequent vomiting - if this cat hasn't been tested for
> hyperthyroidism already, that would definitely be my next step.

> Small, frequent meals, room temperature (not cold from the fridge),
avoid
> enhanced meats, etc. Try many different meats - some cats are more
likely
> to toss up one particular meat more than another, so don't be shy about
> trying anything and everything.
>
> I will also say that I switched my old girl at 14 and she's 20 now -
my only
> regret is not switching her sooner!
>
> Casey
>

Casey,
Thank you! I will tell my friend that. I told her to bring the cat to
my vet and have her checked out. My vet is pro-raw, so I think she
could probably give my friend some specific dietary advice for older
cats. Wanna know something sad? The vet my friend brought the cat to
said she was "healthy as a horse." Is it just me, or does anyone else
think if an animal vomits more than 4 times a week it isn't "healthy
as a horse?"

Anyways, thanks again!:)

-Liz

Messages in this topic (3)
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8a. Re: raw meaty bones.
Posted by: "tottime47" tottime@aol.com tottime47
Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 8:05 am ((PDT))

Hi Paul,

If you haven't noticed any distress from it...choking,
then no......

Lesson number 1, feed big, big, big, lol.
Never offer anything smaller than their head unless it's chopped up.

Remeber dogs don't chew up food like we do, they pull of a chunk and
down it goes...

As a side note: I am amazed that the little guy was able to
swollow it whole, lol.......

Carol, Charkee(not me,I'm picky)& Moli(I'd try it too!)

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "paul.granitegallery"
<paul.granitegallery@...> wrote:
>
> My 5 lb, 10 week old Havanese swallowed a thigh bones without chewing.
> Should I be concerned?
>
> Paul

Messages in this topic (2)
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9.1. newbie
Posted by: "Michelle Grabert" chalienme@yahoo.com chalienme
Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 8:06 am ((PDT))

thankyou for the welcome~ happy to be onboard to learn all I can about raw feeding my dogs. I know they will be happy to for it. thanks. michelle

---------------------------------
Tonight's top picks. What will you watch tonight? Preview the hottest shows on Yahoo! TV.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (48)
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10a. Re: Need advice on weight loss for large mixed breed
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 8:07 am ((PDT))

> I'm feeding her 2 percent of a target weight, which figures out to
> about 1.7 lbs of food a day.

Gemma,

You can reduce that even further if you need to. But something else to
consider - hypothyroidism. Weight gain and ligament damage are enough to
make me think that testing is warranted.

Casey

Messages in this topic (5)
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11a. Re: NEW TO RAW
Posted by: "Michal Cline" Mcline30@aol.com michalcline
Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 8:22 am ((PDT))

lAURIE,

We do not have a freezer just a small compartment in our fridge so
buying in quantity would be difficult unless/until we can find a
small freezer. We live in a fishing/grape raising area so fish is
abundant. It is the meat that is scarce and expensive here.I will
start to check out resources. BTW, gave them each a raw egg yesterday
and the look on their faces was one of total puzzlement. I finally
cracked them wide open and they finished the white and yolk.

How many eggs can one feed to them at a time? (Standard Poodles- 40
pounds and 50 pounds)

You asked:
> Do you have any online buying/selling groups over there (like we
have craigslist and freecycle)? >>

I have no idea but will continue my research and also act upon your
suggestion about reposting with a different heading. Super
idea!!!!!!!!

Michal

Messages in this topic (12)
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11b. Re: NEW TO RAW
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 10:33 am ((PDT))

>How many eggs can one feed to them at a time? (Standard Poodles- 40 pounds and 50 >pounds)

Hi.As much as your dog can torelate and no loose stool.

Egg makes poo looser if you feed too much.

I have 35lb corgi and give her raw Egg 1 at a time.

Other than Egg,in the same day,she gets organ 1oz plus roughly 9 oz of meat with bone. Sometimes more than that if I do give her like 1.5lb over ribs slabs,or roast or big loin with bone etc...and I feed snack size stuff next day.Only 1 per month so far.

I usually feed big one like that only once a month because I am still trying working on making her one sit meal portion bigger and still be torelated.

She had slab of Beef back ribs weigh about 3-4 lb yesterday. It was just that I saw it at grocery store half price down per pound and the rib was like 6-8inches long,and had still quite lot of meat on it. I did not let her finish all because she still needs to be adjusted in amount -wise to be torelated well. Thistime,she seemed quite tired from all changing position to eat it,holding ribs to rip or gnaw etc and she did not eat much bone.I peacefully traded the bone with her favorite chicken feet andshe washappy to give up the rest.

It is funny that after such once a month big meal,she trot out from kitchen when I get puppy pen panels away andsoon lay on side and do something like roll on something with some mourning-like sound.Then,after some resting time,I find herself sleeping peacefully on cool bed.

Such big meal seem to make her work out quite well physically and mentally,and she looks satisfied,and tired:-P

Even if France's meat is expensive,grocery store would do mark down price at some point I am guessing just like ours in US.

The package that is close to expire is usually cheap.Or you can get things on sale item and watch out advertisement come with newspaper.

In fact,the Back ribs I writing here, normally about 5-6 dollars per pound. I usually get sliced short rib that has about 2-3 inch meat on it and little shorter in length.I usually add other animal's boneless meat to to it with side dish of organ parts.

I have never seen the back rib of Beef before but recently they(Super Giant) started carrying it. But price per pound was that high.However,when I got the Rib,I got is little above 2 dollars per pound. Half the price per pound. It was on sale item not expired item but it was good buy. It looked cut into such portion so,if I really had space in freezer,I think I could ask the meat guy if I can get bigger (whole?) slab of beef back ribs.I didn't. not much space now..but always good to ask meat guy too about possibility about unsliced items.This way,I got whole ox tail before.

Incidentally, I was planning to do roasting Pork loin this week,and I saw was 8-10lb of huuuge snake long loin..it was heavy and huuge!

The sell by date was in Oct so,maybe that is why,they decided to make it on sale item but it was great buy as well. I got it 1 dollar 70 cents per pound. I use some for roasting for human,and some for substitute of using Tenderloin in cooking and some for pal's once a month big meal item. She would be thrilled.

I think that finding source of suppliers are bit hard for anyone,but with internet and advertisement and all other ways others posted,you would find one eventually.

I do not think you are the only person in France trying to feed raw.So,there would be somewhere or someone that you can get info on source.

Don't give up. You really find yourself smiling looking at your dog tackling such big meal with joy and improvement of overall health,coat etc .And,you will be glad to know you are giving the best possible diet to your dog.

Good luck,

yassy

PS;If others on this list had Giant near you,the sale continue till thursday I think,and you can get loin that I wrote about with about $1.70/lb. Depending on location,they may not carry it with that price but worth checking:-P

---------------------------------
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Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (12)
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12a. Re: Bone shards in cat vomit
Posted by: "Bumble1994@aol.com" Bumble1994@aol.com bumble1994
Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 9:07 am ((PDT))

In a message dated 9/23/2007 9:22:13 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, "Laurie
Swanson"writes:

In addition to what Giselle said, I was wondering if it could also be
partly a bile vomit thing due to being fed on schedule or having the
schedule changed? It kinda sounds like when my dog used to do that
(the foamy aspect). Not sure if cats are the same. W/dogs, we try to
feed on a random basis to overcome that (not at the same time every
day). Any cat people care to comment?

****
I haven't had any experience with varying the schedule causing vomit. I
pretty much feed when I get up in the morning at 7 and again at 7 in the evening.
On weekends I may not make it up until 10 or noon and my guys have learned
not to try to wake me up and just be patient. Occasionally I've left for some
event late in the afternoon but I thought too early to feed and fed when I
came back about 11 without any problems.

Of course, cats do tend to throw up a lot, anyway, and once in awhile I've
seen bone fragments in somebody's vomit, well past when they had gotten
accustomed to raw. It didn't seem to lead to anything so I haven't worried about it.

Lynda

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Messages in this topic (4)
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13a. Re: you want to feed 2 - 3 % of their ESTIMATED adult weight.
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 9:36 am ((PDT))

"Kevin Brown" <jerseykev@...> wrote:

> "you want to feed 2 - 3 % of their ESTIMATED adult weight."
>
> I have a 4 1/2 month old English Mastiff, she is 55 pounds. The vet
> expects her to be 150 at adult weight.
>
> Should I be feeding her 3 - 4.5 pounds a day.
>
> or 1.1 - 1.65 pounds of raw a day?
*****
Feed her based on what she will ideally weigh as an adult. Divvy it up
across three meals--even four--if that's what she needs to comfortably
digest the amount. Some pups can do fine on two meals a day at four
months; others simply can't process "that much" food. Spread it out if
you have to. Adjust as necessary of course if she is more roly-poly or
leaner than you think is healthy--you will be doing this her whole
life. If she has loose stools try reducing the amount you feed in each
meal, not necessarily/automatically the total amount you feed per day.

You have to nourish the dog within.

(Just so you know, the "other" way to feed a pup is to feed 10% of the
pup's current weight; although she's too old for that method now [it
pretty much fizzles out at 16 weeks], she'd be getting five pounds of
food based on it. No matter how you look at amounts, she's a growing
girl and she needs her chow.)
Chris O

Messages in this topic (8)
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14a. Re: HELP PLEASE? AVOCADO PIT :(((
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 9:43 am ((PDT))

Cdandp2@... wrote:
But, I won't rest easy until I see that first post-pit poop!!!
*****
Carol, I had a little black Lab hooligan that broke a toe doing
something wild and crazy. The vet bandaged her up with some spiffy
purple VetWrap and in short order it was off and utterly, totally
disappeared. Gone. Not in the house, not in the yard. Gone.

We think she ate it. The vet said "wait and see." We waited. We
never saw. Nothing. No vomit, no poop. No discomfort. Not from her,
not from the other dogs.

Hard to know about these dogs, sometimes.

Please keep us informed!
Chris O

Messages in this topic (5)
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15. Ham
Posted by: "carolejc2007" mooska2me@sbcglobal.net carolejc2007
Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 10:31 am ((PDT))

Okay, so I'm still new to raw feeding my dogs. I printed out
the "recipe" page from one of the raw feeding sites and it lists ham as
a good food source. Isn't ham smoked and full of nitrates? How can
this be good for the animal?

Carole

Messages in this topic (1)
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16a. Re: Just moved to raw
Posted by: "carolejc2007" mooska2me@sbcglobal.net carolejc2007
Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 10:32 am ((PDT))

***MODERATOR'S NOTE: TRIM YOUR MESSAGES.***

I just started my 2 Greyhounds and 2 Italian Gerys on a raw diet this
past week. The 2 Greys went bonkers; absolutely no hesitation at
all. The 2 Italian Greys approached it differently. One of them
sniffed and licked at it for about 5 minutes before she decided it
was okay to eat and then ate it and has no problem since. The other
Italian simply sniffed and licked at his; he would not eat it, so I
picked it up and he went without dinner. The next day I gave it to
him again and again he sniffed and licked at it. By this time I
guess he was hungry enough that he decided to give it a try. It took
him a while to eat it but he now eats with no hesitation like the
rest of them. I think each dog probably approaches the idea of
eating raw a little differently.

Carole

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Kristin" <girlndocs@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Nasser,
>
> > if she is fed
> > outside she will cover her food with sand and go. When fed
indoors she
> > tries to do the same thing of covering the food with sand but
rubs her
> > nose on the hard floor.
>
> Zoe did the same thing for some time. Not only the "burying"
(indoors, under
> things like her crate blanket, her leash and the doormat) but the
startled
> nose rubbing as if to say "Hey! Food's not supposed to be wet!" and
the
> resigned "Oh, OK, if I gotta" eating.
>
> She's been eating raw for about three weeks now and dives into her
meals
> with relish -- walks around hopefully with her nose in the air when
I get
> out a whole raw chicken.
>
> So, you didn't say exactly how long you've been raw, but my guess
is that
> all of it will pass.
>
> Kristin
>

Messages in this topic (3)
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17a. Re: raw salmon
Posted by: "Stephanie Cassin" mamacass@iprimus.com.au quiltingtuppy
Date: Sun Sep 23, 2007 10:32 am ((PDT))

Hi Everyone,

I can understand that freezing fish will kill parasites, but does it
also make the good oils less potent in any way?

Thanks,
Stephanie

Messages in this topic (5)
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