[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12228
There are 25 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1a. Re: new to list - not to raw - new puppy
From: carnesbill
1b. Re: new to list - not to raw - new puppy
From: katkellm
2a. 2 questions
From: reachpanda
2b. Re: 2 questions
From: costrowski75
2c. Re: 2 questions
From: Tina Berry
2d. Re: 2 questions
From: reachpanda
3a. Re: still swallowing whole
From: Mary
3b. Re: still swallowing whole
From: delcaste
3c. Re: still swallowing whole
From: Giselle
4a. Re: Ground Food
From: costrowski75
5a. Re: Theories - Why some will eat Whole Foods & Others Refuse
From: mgitaville
5b. Re: Theories - Why some will eat Whole Foods & Others Refuse
From: mgitaville
5c. Re: Theories - Why some will eat Whole Foods & Others Refuse
From: carnesbill
5d. Re: Theories - Why some will eat Whole Foods & Others Refuse
From: Lisa S.
5e. Re: Theories - Why some will eat Whole Foods & Others Refuse
From: mgitaville
5f. Re: Theories - Why some will eat Whole Foods & Others Refuse
From: carnesbill
6. AKC poll on raw feeding
From: famtimes@blazenetme.net
7a. Re: First time feeding raw and . . .
From: Lady Lydia McLane
8a. Re: Question about small dogs and beef bones
From: Patty Linden
9. Happy tails :)
From: D. Rajska
10. how to butcher mutton - help please
From: Deena Gentle
11. So....Deer Not Going Over Well...
From: helpshelteranimals
12a. Re: rabbit
From: Dawn Crosier
13. Feeding whole prey in close quarters???
From: miensasis
14.1. New to Raw Feeding
From: tcay584
Messages
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1a. Re: new to list - not to raw - new puppy
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2007 7:18 am ((PDT))
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Elizabeth Hackley"
<twodobemom@...> wrote:
>
> I've been trying to get him to eat what I thought
> would be more "prey" model. In doing so, I have been feeding
> him meat trimmings and stew meat for breakfast.
Let's stop and think about how a dog chews. Humans chew their food
into a mush before swallowing it. Dogs merely crunch, rip and tear
their food until its small enough to fit down their throat.
Amazingly large pieces of food can fit down a dog's throat. Meat
trimmings and stew meat are already small enough to fit down his
throat and there is no reason for him to chew. It would be like you
chewing applesauce or mashed potatoes or jello.
> Is this a behavior that will change over time?
I don't know. It definately will change if you feed him pieces
large enough that he MUST chew to get them down his throat.
> However, both his breath and his body still stink and I
> cannot figure out why.
"Stink" usually means bacteria is where it shouldn't be. Bad breath
in both dogs and humans almost always means there is bacteria in the
mouth, usually between teeth and between teeth and gums. I suspect
that the bad breath is caused by not eating enough bone to clean
these areas. Usually chicken bones are best for cleaning between
teeth and under the gums. If you feed chicken parts 3 or 4 times a
week for a month or so and he still had bad breath, it is probably
time for a visit to the dentist to get those teeth cleaned. It's
possible he has already developed periodontal disease or that he has
cavities that are trapping food inside. Raw feeding will not cure
cavities.
As for the body odor, I have no idea. Ear infections call cause an
odor. I think kidney problems can cause body odor. Diet can also.
Try feeding him less beef and more poultry/fish for a while to see
if that helps.
Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm
Feeding Raw since October 2002
"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale
Messages in this topic (3)
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1b. Re: new to list - not to raw - new puppy
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2007 7:19 am ((PDT))
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Elizabeth Hackley"
<twodobemom@...> wrote:
In doing so, I have been feeding him meat
> trimmings and stew meat for breakfast. He WOLFS down his food -
> opening his mouth and just vacumming it all in at once then gagging.
> Is this a behavior that will change over time? I want to be able to
> leave him with his food and not worry about him choking. He also gets
> pork and lamb neck bones,.....
Hi Elizabeth,
I am going to assume that the stew meat and trimmings are cut up
pieces of meat, and therefore are too small to require your dog to
actually chew. Food that is too small usually leads to this type of
eating. So, no, if you don't feed bigger hunks of meat he will
probably not outgrow this. I think that part of the breath smell
comes from lack of bone in your pup's diet and lack of size when
referring to hunks of meat. It sounds like most of your diet is
relying on foods that don't require him to use his teeth to rip and
tear and gnaw. Unless you are getting whole necks, neck bones are
usually to small to make a dog have to really chew. You could try
feeding bigger foods such as a pork roast, whole chicken, turkey
quarters, pork ribs, whole pig feet... which should slow down his
eating pace and give him a better dental workout which should lead to
unstinky breath. If this were my dog, i would believe that when i
cleared up the breath smell the skin smell probably resolve itself
shortly there after. KathyM
Messages in this topic (3)
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2a. 2 questions
Posted by: "reachpanda" reachpanda@hotmail.com reachpanda
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2007 8:24 am ((PDT))
1. I've been feeding my dog raw for about 2 weeks, 2x day. Since eating
raw, she throws up in the middle of the night (almost every night), but
it's just clear or yellow liquid. She's fine otherwise. Why is she
doing this? Should I do something different?
2. I tried to find a local butcher to grind meat with bones for me (to
put in kongs and such), but no one will do it. Any suggestions on how
to get this? Otherwise I'll just use plain ground meat.
Andrea
Messages in this topic (8)
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2b. Re: 2 questions
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2007 9:02 am ((PDT))
"reachpanda" <reachpanda@...> wrote:
>
> 1. I've been feeding my dog raw for about 2 weeks, 2x day. Since
eating
> raw, she throws up in the middle of the night (almost every
night), but
> it's just clear or yellow liquid. She's fine otherwise. Why is she
> doing this? Should I do something different?
*****
This is bile and it is a result of available stomach juices going
unused but it can also occur if there's some irritating bit of
undigested bone lingering too long in the stomach. It is not
unusual with noob dogs; perhaps it happens because raw food is more
easily digested than kibble, so the stomach gets empty sooner. You
might be able to reduce it by feeding the second meal before
bedtime, or giving a snack before bedtime. The yellow bile vomits
generally go away with time.
It also happens when the human feeds on a rigid by-the-clock
schedule and misses a deadline but the dog's stomach doesn't. Best
way to stop this anticipatory vomiting is to get the meals off the
clock, to feed randomly or at least not according to a set
schedule.
> 2. I tried to find a local butcher to grind meat with bones for me
(to
> put in kongs and such), but no one will do it
*****
You don't want ground bones. You want to feed whole meaty bones as
part of a good raw diet. If you have to stuff a kong, use plain
ground meat, yes. What other intentions to you have for ground meat
and bones?
Chris O
Messages in this topic (8)
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2c. Re: 2 questions
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2007 9:04 am ((PDT))
"1. I've been feeding my dog raw for about 2 weeks, 2x day. Since eating
raw, she throws up in the middle of the night (almost every night), but it's
just clear or yellow liquid. She's fine otherwise. Why is she doing this?
Should I do something different?"
The only time mine threw up yellow bile was when his stomach was expecting
food. How old is your dog? You may go to feed 3 x a day or just feed
more. How much do you feed him?
"2. I tried to find a local butcher to grind meat with bones for me (to put
in kongs and such), but no one will do it. Any suggestions on how to get
this? Otherwise I'll just use plain ground meat."
I would just put chunks of meat without bone in the kong.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Messages in this topic (8)
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2d. Re: 2 questions
Posted by: "reachpanda" reachpanda@hotmail.com reachpanda
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2007 10:17 am ((PDT))
> *****
> You don't want ground bones. You want to feed whole meaty bones as
> part of a good raw diet. If you have to stuff a kong, use plain
> ground meat, yes. What other intentions to you have for ground meat
> and bones?
> Chris O
>
Well depending on the answer to the first question, I thought maybe she
was having a hard time digesting bones to begin with (hence the
vomiting) and I should give her the ground meat with bones until her
stomach got used to it. But mainly for the purposes of a treat/kong.
She does get fed at different times 2x a day. I try to change it up so
she won't get used to a certain time and have the extra stomach acid
problem.
Andrea
Messages in this topic (8)
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3a. Re: still swallowing whole
Posted by: "Mary" maryjwilliams@comcast.net ryanlw23
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2007 8:24 am ((PDT))
Hi, Silvina!
I have two Pugs and one is an extreme gulper. I cannot feed him
anything smaller this his head, otherwise, down the hatchet it goes.
If I am not successful in getting the lodged piece out with my
fingers, then I am subjected to watching him hack the peice back up in
a frothy foam. Lovely. :)
I tend to feed semi-whole prey in the evenings when I can monitor for
any chocking. I stock up on Cornish Game Hens, Ducks, Chickens,
Whole Pork Necks, Whole Fish, Lamb Breast, Rabbits, Turkey Breasts and
feed these in their entirety whenever possible. For example, if I am
feeding chicken, I will cut up a chicken in half and give him one
half. He usually stops about halfway through the meal and I take
what's left (because by then it's usually a nice sized "gulpable"
piece) and offer it to my non-gulping Pug later that day or tomorrow.
For light meals, I'll feed liver or small amounts of tripe. I'd say
that my Pug goes around 2 days before he's ready to eat another
semi-whole prey meal. The key is, as others have mentioned, is to
find a food that gives your dog a challenge at chewing/shredding but
yet find a balance so that you don't end up with a Pug that looks like
he's a cinder block with four legs. ;)
One last piece I'd like throw out there is that I have found the
feeding them separately away from each other decreases the speed at
which they consume their meals. Don't know if you've tried that yet,
so I'd thought I'd mention it.
Trust me when I say I know the frustrations you are going through with
having a gulper. I've had one too many nights cleaning up foamy
messes and my assuring my husband that I am not trying to kill the Pug. :)
--Mary W.
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "delcaste" <delcaste@...> wrote:
> Yeah, this one is pretty bad as far a gulpers go.
>
Messages in this topic (18)
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3b. Re: still swallowing whole
Posted by: "delcaste" delcaste@yahoo.com delcaste
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2007 12:23 pm ((PDT))
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" <maryjwilliams@...> wrote:
>
> Hi, Silvina!
>
> I have two Pugs and one is an extreme gulper. I cannot feed him
> anything smaller this his head, otherwise, down the hatchet it
goes.
> If I am not successful in getting the lodged piece out with my
> fingers, then I am subjected to watching him hack the peice back up
in
> a frothy foam. Lovely. :)
Yes, well, hmmmm, I get the lovely foam from my "timid" one :) One
big sock-like foam and in it is the offending piece of meat. He'll
eat it back up and foams it up again about four more times. I know I
am being gross, but this is pretty much how their dinner goes. The
PIG chokes. She can't hack it up, she clenches her teeth and pedals
round and round til she starts to weaken. She brings up no foam, no
saliva, no nothing. I really don't think I am over reacting to this.
It's pretty scary to watch.
>
> I tend to feed semi-whole prey in the evenings when I can monitor
for
> any chocking.
I feed in the evenings since I never trusted her to eat like a normal
dog and I could monitor. Also, they seem more relaxed when the eat in
the evening.
> that my Pug goes around 2 days before he's ready to eat another
> semi-whole prey meal. The key is, as others have mentioned, is to
> find a food that gives your dog a challenge at chewing/shredding but
> yet find a balance so that you don't end up with a Pug that looks
like
> he's a cinder block with four legs. ;)
It's good to know I can wait a day or so before feeding a big meal
again. I'm going by feeling her ribs since pugs tend to be little
squares with attitude to start with, lol. Ha, I like cinder block!
>
> One last piece I'd like throw out there is that I have found the
> feeding them separately away from each other decreases the speed at
> which they consume their meals. Don't know if you've tried that
yet,
> so I'd thought I'd mention it.
The PIG has always eaten by herself since she is also a thief.
>
> Trust me when I say I know the frustrations you are going through
with
> having a gulper. I've had one too many nights cleaning up foamy
> messes and my assuring my husband that I am not trying to kill the
Pug. :)
>
I live with my mom so my problem is convincing her that raw food
doesn't choke dogs, Pig-dogs choke all on their own, ;). I'm trying
to be light-hearted here because everytime I feed her my anxiety
level shoots way up. I have to keep leaving the place where she eats
and there's just so much I can pretend to be doing so I seem to be
normal. I want to thank you, Mary, and everyone else that has helped
me with this. I am anxious because if I make one little mistake, she
chokes and I'm scared.
Silvina
Messages in this topic (18)
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3c. Re: still swallowing whole
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2007 5:44 pm ((PDT))
Hi, Silvina!
There are so many people who report that their Pugs are
"gulpers", that I can't help but wonder why their jaw, dental and muzzle
structure isn't pointed out as the main reasons why this is so, not their
personalities. After all, they are dogs, and dogs are wolves, and share the
same carnivorous natures and instincts, no matter their size or structural
abnormalities.
Your dogs are limited by the bodies in which they find themselves. The
shortened muzzle, wide shallow jaw, shallow eye sockets, altered dentition,
thick neck and large throat are breeder selected traits that are not found
in nature.
Left to breed without interference, all dog breeds would soon intermingle,
and lose the exaggerated breed characteristics that we all so love and
value. The giants would gradually dwindle, the toys would increase in size,
the long backs and short muzzles and long silky or thick heavy coats and
exotic colors would soon intermix and become more uniform. They would level
out at about 35-45 pounds, have shortish double fur coats, their colors
would eventually reflect the environment in which they found themselves.
They would look like a generic dog. They would, in effect, become more like
their cousins, the wolves - effective at hunting, eating and all the
activities needed for life.
I point this out not to object to or denigrate the different breeds, after
all, I myself love the diversity of breeds. I personally, love the giant
breed black heavy coated Newfys, and all black cobby Schipperkes, and
Papillions, and Chinese Cresteds, and any number of other breeds with
physical attributes that would swiftly be unselected for in the wild.
I just want to highlight the fact that these little guys are eating the best
way they can, given the equipment they have been bred to have. And given
that they are indeed, still wolves in instinct and under the skin.
Keeping this idea in mind can maybe help you not get so frustrated with
them. It may also help you to brainstorm to help them eat more safely and
comfortably.
HTH in some way.
TC
Giselle
On 11/1/07, delcaste <delcaste@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com <rawfeeding%40yahoogroups.com>, "Mary"
> <maryjwilliams@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi, Silvina!
> >
> > I have two Pugs and one is an extreme gulper. I cannot feed him
> > anything smaller this his head, otherwise, down the hatchet it
> goes.
> > If I am not successful in getting the lodged piece out with my
> > fingers, then I am subjected to watching him hack the piece back up
> in
> > a frothy foam. Lovely. :)
>
> Yes, well, hmmmm, I get the lovely foam from my "timid" one :) One
> big sock-like foam and in it is the offending piece of meat. He'll
> eat it back up and foams it up again about four more times. I know I
> am being gross, but this is pretty much how their dinner goes. The
> PIG chokes. She can't hack it up, she clenches her teeth and pedals
> round and round til she starts to weaken. She brings up no foam, no
> saliva, no nothing. I really don't think I am over reacting to this.
> It's pretty scary to watch.
> >
> > I tend to feed semi-whole prey in the evenings when I can monitor
> for
> > any chocking.
>
> I feed in the evenings since I never trusted her to eat like a normal
> dog and I could monitor. Also, they seem more relaxed when the eat in
> the evening.
>
> > that my Pug goes around 2 days before he's ready to eat another
> > semi-whole prey meal. The key is, as others have mentioned, is to
> > find a food that gives your dog a challenge at chewing/shredding but
> > yet find a balance so that you don't end up with a Pug that looks
> like
> > he's a cinder block with four legs. ;)
>
> It's good to know I can wait a day or so before feeding a big meal
> again. I'm going by feeling her ribs since pugs tend to be little
> squares with attitude to start with, lol. Ha, I like cinder block!
> >
> > One last piece I'd like throw out there is that I have found the
> > feeding them separately away from each other decreases the speed at
> > which they consume their meals. Don't know if you've tried that
> yet,
> > so I'd thought I'd mention it.
>
> The PIG has always eaten by herself since she is also a thief.
> >
> > Trust me when I say I know the frustrations you are going through
> with
> > having a gulper. I've had one too many nights cleaning up foamy
> > messes and my assuring my husband that I am not trying to kill the
> Pug. :)
> >
>
> I live with my mom so my problem is convincing her that raw food
> doesn't choke dogs, Pig-dogs choke all on their own, ;). I'm trying
> to be light-hearted here because every time I feed her my anxiety
> level shoots way up. I have to keep leaving the place where she eats
> and there's just so much I can pretend to be doing so I seem to be
> normal. I want to thank you, Mary, and everyone else that has helped
> me with this. I am anxious because if I make one little mistake, she
> chokes and I'm scared.
>
> Silvina
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Messages in this topic (18)
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4a. Re: Ground Food
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2007 8:36 am ((PDT))
"mrsmenk" <mrsmenk@...> wrote:
> Is this type of ground useful at all in a raw
> diet?
*****
It is nourishment. It can be useful for feeding pills. Beyond that,
it merely lines the pockets of the manufacturer. Your big dog and
your little cat both need whole foods--including meaty bones--for
nutrition, for dental hygiene, for mental and physical exercise.
Chris O
Messages in this topic (4)
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5a. Re: Theories - Why some will eat Whole Foods & Others Refuse
Posted by: "mgitaville" mgitaville@hotmail.com mgitaville
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2007 9:05 am ((PDT))
>
> And after some more minutes after she comes close andlick a bit and
stare,I cut out the fur about 1 inch square andlet her eat it,and she
did eat it and from that point on,she kept putting her nose on the
patch that I cut out and tried to tackle it but still hard.So,I did
little bit ribborning;I did not cut sking off but cut some so that she
can get good grab of skin and fur and rip.
>
> It went good.After that shespent 2 hours on it and enjoyed it.She
did not finish it off everything so,I still have the leftover in
freezer but, if you try ribborn theskin if dog had bit difficulty
understanding,probably the dog gets it.
>
******This is precisely my question though....what is it for this dog
that after a bit of time she decided to give it a try vs. other dogs
who will continue to refuse over and over again despite being clearly
hungry. We have had stand offs before over meat, but the fur was on a
whole different level
Marguerita
Messages in this topic (10)
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5b. Re: Theories - Why some will eat Whole Foods & Others Refuse
Posted by: "mgitaville" mgitaville@hotmail.com mgitaville
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2007 9:05 am ((PDT))
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "carnesbill" <carnesw@...> wrote:
>
> I suggest you try skinned animals before feeding with fur on. Cut
> open the belly so you expose the organs. This will usually get them
> started after a few minutes of play with it. Don't introduce skin on
> until they are very used to skinned.
>
*****Bill, but "skinned" you mean nothing but meat but head, feet, etc.
still intact? If that is what you mean than I can say that I do give
whole rabbitt and duck from time to time. He will eat the duck feet
and head with no problems. Once a little fur (even piglet fur which is
very minimal) showed up though it was not happening. Did I understand
what you meant or did I miss the mark?
Marguerita
Messages in this topic (10)
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5c. Re: Theories - Why some will eat Whole Foods & Others Refuse
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2007 10:17 am ((PDT))
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "mgitaville" <mgitaville@...>
wrote:
>
> *****Bill, but "skinned" you mean nothing but meat but head,
> feet, etc. still intact?
Yes exactly and organs still intact also. It's the whole rabbit
with no fur.
> If that is what you mean than I can say that I do give
> whole rabbitt and duck from time to time.
Cool and if he continues to refuse rabbit with fur, I would only
feed skinned rabbit and fetherless. Fur serves no real nutritional
need anyway.
Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm
Feeding Raw since October 2002
"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale
Messages in this topic (10)
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5d. Re: Theories - Why some will eat Whole Foods & Others Refuse
Posted by: "Lisa S." acbrio@shaw.ca trzazz
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2007 12:23 pm ((PDT))
Perhaps cutting them down the middle would have helped ?
With my dog, I had a standoff over a whole quail, which was tiny (about 5" long). I tried it
first with most feathers on and just a few feathers plucked off the breast. Only a nibble. I
took it up and plucked it. It should have now looked to him very similar to his familiar
chicken backs. Still just a nibble. It might NOT have helped to have me hovering around,
encouraging him to eat it.
I took it up and didn't give him anything else to eat. I sliced it down the middle and
stabbed it and stuffed tripe into the holes (he loves tripe) and ziplock-marinated it in tripe
overnight. I gave him half of the quail the next day, dumped it on the lawn and promptly
left. I watched from a far window, out of sight. He ate half of it. The following day, he got
the piece he hadn't finished. He finished it this time. The following day, he got the second
half. He ate the whole thing, head and all. I think it was four days to eat one tiny quail, but
he ended up eating it all.
I don't know if it's a coincidence or not, but my dog has never refused anything since the
quail, not even chicken organs, which he woudn't eat before. The rabbit came sometime
after the quail standoff. I fasted him for two days before even giving him his first whole,
furry rabbit because I wanted the rabbit eating to get off on the right foot ;-) .
Holy cow - 96 views on my new YouTube video already, just posted yesterday ! :)
Now that I know my dog will eat them, I just ordered 3 more whole, furry rabbits from my
raw group, so I'll try to take even better video next time.
Brio eating his first whole, furry rabbit:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzCldGfvS40
With some dogs, I have heard that too - that some dogs simply refuse to eat things with
fur. I'm glad mine WILL eat them. One person I know said that two of her dogs will eat
furry rabbits, but her third dog looks at it like she's trying to feed her a puppy or
something !
- Lisa S.
and Brio
> ******This is precisely my question though....what is it for this dog
> that after a bit of time she decided to give it a try vs. other dogs
> who will continue to refuse over and over again despite being clearly
> hungry. We have had stand offs before over meat, but the fur was on a
> whole different level
>
> Marguerita
>
Messages in this topic (10)
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5e. Re: Theories - Why some will eat Whole Foods & Others Refuse
Posted by: "mgitaville" mgitaville@hotmail.com mgitaville
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2007 12:23 pm ((PDT))
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "carnesbill" <carnesw@...> wrote:
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "mgitaville" <mgitaville@>
> wrote:
> >
> > *****Bill, but "skinned" you mean nothing but meat but head,
> > feet, etc. still intact?
>
> Yes exactly and organs still intact also. It's the whole rabbit
> with no fur.
>
>
> > If that is what you mean than I can say that I do give
> > whole rabbitt and duck from time to time.
>
> Cool and if he continues to refuse rabbit with fur, I would only
> feed skinned rabbit and fetherless. Fur serves no real nutritional
> need anyway.
>
> Bill Carnes
****** Usually the organs have been pulled and then put back
in....you know the way chickens are at the grocery store, but still
whole for the most part.
I don't really have any objections to him not eating fur since as you
said it doesn't serve nutritional purpose. However, it is
frustrating to occasionally have the "find" of something whole and
NOT from a grocery store and then not be able to take someone up on
it. Clearly what I see as a nutritional treasure that is as fresh as
you can get is not seen as the treasure by my dog.
Marguerita
Messages in this topic (10)
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5f. Re: Theories - Why some will eat Whole Foods & Others Refuse
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2007 3:15 pm ((PDT))
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "mgitaville" <mgitaville@...> wrote:
>
> ****** Usually the organs have been pulled and then put back
> in....you know the way chickens are at the grocery store,
> but still whole for the most part.
The skinned rabbits I bought were not like that. The belly had never
been cut open so the organs were still attached in their original
places, intestines and all. Then only thing different from a live
rabbit was no fur(and of course no breathing :) ).
Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm
Feeding Raw since October 2002
"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale
Messages in this topic (10)
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6. AKC poll on raw feeding
Posted by: "famtimes@blazenetme.net" famtimes@blazenetme.net famtimes2001
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2007 11:05 am ((PDT))
To take part in this poll on raw feeding (whether you feed raw or no)
Go to:
http://www.akc.org/ and look at the right hand side of the page.
Jane
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7a. Re: First time feeding raw and . . .
Posted by: "Lady Lydia McLane" lydia@lydiamclane.com bimbobomb
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2007 11:07 am ((PDT))
HI all,
I am new to the group, but have been feeding my pack of terriers raw
for 10 years. I have a 16 y.o. Scottie, 13 y.o. Cairn, 2 y.o.
Scottie, and 2.5 y.o. American Pit Bull. All of my dogs were rescues.
Sometimes I think I am crazy for owning 4 terriers, but at least I
have them all convinced that I am their leader.
I buy meat from the butcher directly. Much cheaper. I suggest
looking through the phone book for the butchers in your area and
buying boxes of frozen product. Many butchers will be happy to sell
scraps and bones. Many already sell to other dog owners and breeders.
I get tubes of ground organ meat for $9, 10 lb boxes of chicken necks
and backs for $13 each, and can get other interesting stuff pretty
regularly. The butcher I go to also does hunting items, so I asked to
have the organ meat and hooves and such saved for my dogs.
In a pinch I will get meat at the grocery store, but the price is
always surprising.
My best to everyone,
Lydia
Messages in this topic (13)
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8a. Re: Question about small dogs and beef bones
Posted by: "Patty Linden" pattykat3@yahoo.com pattykat3
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2007 12:22 pm ((PDT))
Thank you to Cynthia, Bill, and others who have given me suggestions about this.
cynthiashankman <ShankMa4@aol.com> wrote: --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Patty Linden <pattykat3@...> wrote:
>
> Hi--I was wondering if anyone with small dogs (mine is a 13 lb.
pomeranian) would have any suggestions for feeding beef bones. Would
beef ribs be a safe bone to feed (as far as not harming his teeth,
and would he be able to crush them?). I started my little guy out on
chicken a month ago. Lately he is refusing the chicken each time I
offer it, but absolutely loves to gnaw on a turkey neck.
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Especially thank you to Cynthia. I think you "hit the nail on the head" (mainly my head, about the meaty part of the prey model diet)!
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"As a NEW raw feeder myself, I did the same thing you are doing. I
fed only chicken and my dog refused it after awhile also. (btw, his
energy went down too) and I was frustrated and confused by his not
eating! Then I tried to figure out which bones to feed next.... "
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I have read over and over about 80% meat, 10% bone, 10% organ. However, since my pom has had loose stools since he began eating raw (and before), I kept thinking he must need more bone. Last night I gave him some beef stew meat (bought that, forgetting that he needed to tear it apart). He literally "wolfed it down"--first time in a long time I've seen him eat so eagerly. Today I bought a couple of beef roasts (boneless) on sale, and have cut them into pieces large enough for him to work on for a while. I plan on trying to follow Bill's suggestion of a chicken back for one meal a day, and a boneless meal for the other one. Mica (my pom) has not been really interested in eating for so long in the 3 years I've had him. It is such a pleasure to see him enjoying his food!
:-) Patty
.
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9. Happy tails :)
Posted by: "D. Rajska" d.rajska@gmail.com deerajska
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2007 12:22 pm ((PDT))
Hi Everyone,
I think so often many of us newbies tend to write to the list only
when we're stressed out or have a million questions, and I just wanted
to email with a great feel-good story instead. (My puppy is coming
home in a week and half, so I'm sure I'll be sending lots of
stressed-out question emails later anyway ;)
Anyhow, for those who may not remember my rambling intro a couple of
weeks ago, my sister, brother, and parents each also have a dog, and I
was hoping, with time, to convert all of them to raw feeding. Well,
success is happening a lot faster than I had hoped! I had spoken to my
sister about my plans to feed raw, and mentioned why and how. She has
a beautiful one-year-old pitbull - Australian cattle dog "mystery
cross" named Luna. Last week, she found some beef ribs on sale, and
couldn't quite bring herself to (a) make the switch cold turkey, and
(b) feed raw, so she started by searing them lightly to feed to Luna
in between ki**le meals. I should mention that my sister is a busy
medical resident, and Luna has lately been a bit hyper and stressed,
and their relationship was suffering somewhat - my sister felt guilty
for feeling that the dog was getting on her nerves. Well, after a week
of seared ribs, she has ventured to turkey, and yesterday... she
finally made the switch, to feeding fully raw, a hunk of lamb!!!
HOORAY!!! In the meantime, Luna has become calmer, happier, and my sis
has felt reconnected with her dog, not just because her behaviour has
improved, but also, because she just feels so much more like a
nurturer to her now that she is concsiously making choices to offer
varied, healthy, nourishing food every day. It's made both of them so
much happier. And apparently, even though Luna has always been a good
eater, my sister says now every time she goes to open the fridge for
mealtime Luna acts like she's ready to hire a marching band to
celebrate dinner. She loves it. She cuddles more. she's less stressed,
and overall she's just a happier, more loving dog.
Next episode - Luna tries chicken livers for dessert, this coming
Saturday. Stay tuned :)
So... Thanks guys. Thanks for all the support and help you have given
me - my niece loves you for it.
And more good news - last weekend, my sister went to visit my parents,
and now they're supplementing their Rottweiler puppy's diet with raw
bones... And eggs from my prents' chickens. They aren't full-out
switching yet, but this is much more than I had expected at this point
in time. Stay tuned...
Dee
Messages in this topic (1)
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10. how to butcher mutton - help please
Posted by: "Deena Gentle" gentledl@gmail.com gentleridge
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2007 12:23 pm ((PDT))
I have an opportunity to buy a ram for about $50, plus whatever processing
would cost (probably another $60-75). My pup is 4.5 months old, will be
about 40 lbs. at maturity. I'm interested in advice on how to have the
meat/carcass cut up if I decide to buy this old ram.
If you were doing it, how would you instruct the butcher? Keeping in mind,
I feed him in a kennel (live in New Mexico, no grass, only gravel and dirt,
especially at this time of the year!).
And is that ol' ram going to be gamey stinky?
Chaco hasn't had lamb yet because I don't choose to buy it for him at
supermarket prices. so I don't know how he'll respond to it. It's a big
purchase for me to make (need to be sure I have freezer space). I don't
even know exactly how much weight to expect?
Are there any bones that would be edible, or would it mostly be for the
experience of gnawing meat off the harder bones?
Thanks for your advice,
Deena
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11. So....Deer Not Going Over Well...
Posted by: "helpshelteranimals" helpshelteranimals@yahoo.com helpshelteranimals
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2007 3:15 pm ((PDT))
So my wonderful score from the game processing place is not going over
big. Ruffian ate a couple of pieces of hide w/ meat and a little hair
still attached but he isn't touching the spine. He won't even try it.
Day two he didn't even want the meat from the deer.
Any suggestions?
Thanks,
AG & Ruffian (Mystery Mutt)
Messages in this topic (1)
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12a. Re: rabbit
Posted by: "Dawn Crosier" dlcrosier@sbcglobal.net dlc110161
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2007 3:15 pm ((PDT))
Is the rabbit domesticated? If so, then it is the European wild rabbit which
generally does not get the disease. If wild, then your chances of coming in
contact with rabbit fever is greater.
Check the liver - if it contains spots on it, I would not feed. Often times
rabbit breeders will also ask you to let them know about deformities in the
liver. This is because the first sign of coccidious is displayed in the
liver. See http://www.beaglesunlimited.net/rabbithunting_tularemia.htm for
more information regarding Rabbit Fever.
Dawn
-----Original Message-----
From: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com [mailto:rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Cindy Morettin
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 4:37 PM
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [rawfeeding] rabbit
Hi Guys,
I am wondering if it'll okay to feed my dogs rabbits that may have had
rabbitt fever? Is this something to be concerned about? A friend of mine
is offering to bring me whole raw rabbit but warned me of the rabbit fever
thing.
Thanks!
Cindy
No virus found in this outgoing message.
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Messages in this topic (13)
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13. Feeding whole prey in close quarters???
Posted by: "miensasis" kpmnlm@patmedia.net miensasis
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2007 3:16 pm ((PDT))
Hi Everyone...
After 6 weeks of feeding raw chicken/bone/organs I'm working on
adding a little variety to my dogs' meals (so far beef and turkey
have been successfully introduced). And after spending time here on
this list, I am convinced that feeding as close as possible to the
whole prey model is best for my dogs. The problem I have is this...I
live in a townhome and do not have a yard. Thus far I've been
feeding large parts of grocery cuts in my kitchen, but I'd like to
move as much in the direction of an in-tact prey model as my living
arrangements will support. For us feeding a whole deer carcass is
not possible, but is there anyone that feeds smaller whole animals
(like rabbits) inside their homes? Exactly how messy (i.e. bloody)
is it? Is there any other suggestions for whole prey that would fit
our needs?
So far my dogs have been impeccable eaters. I have a white floor and
they do not leave a speck of blood/bone/meat anywhere and do not drag
food into other areas of the house. They clean their faces either by
licking each other clean or going into their crates and rubbing their
faces on their bedding immediately after their meal. They also do
not use their paws to eat and so do not track stuff around the house.
Your thoughts are appreciated!
Nancy
in NJ
with Riley--2 yrs
and Molly--1 yr
Messages in this topic (1)
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14.1. New to Raw Feeding
Posted by: "tcay584" tcay584@excite.com tcay584
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2007 3:16 pm ((PDT))
I've been reading this board for a bit now and decided to go raw about
a week ago. My Weimaraner looked at what I put down for her (some
stew beef chunks, a chicken drumstick, and a lamb chop) and looked at
me as if I were nuts! She wouldn't touch it....didn't even seem to
recognize it as food. However, she sure was curious when I was putting
it all on her plate. So, I picked up the plate, got out some good
sharp scissors, and proceeded to cut it into chunks on the counter, as
if I was making food for me and hubby. She was mesmerized! I grabbed
a small chunk and said "Well, Ok...but only one for you" as I gave it
to her.....GULP. I proceeded to feed her an entire meal in that
fashion. She's getting better, but still struggles with recognizing
bigger pieces with bones attached. She loves chicken liver
though....even though it skeeves me out to put it in her bowl (Yuck!).
I just tell her what a good girl she's being, and it seems to
encourage her. Lots of encouragement.
My Chihuahua, who is 18 years old and wet dog food fed probably from
birth, just can't handle it. She's not interested at all except for
little bits now and then. She's 18, and I'm just not going to push
her at this age....I'm pretty sure she's going to expire any week now.
So nibbles for her when she wants, her other food when she doesn't. I
always offer the raw first, just in case she's in the mood.
I'm moving to Atlanta and staying with my sister for a bit. She has a
kibble-fed yellow lab who I'm just dying to convert. Sis seems
interested, and when she sees my girl, I think she'll see the light.
Fingers crossed!
Jennifer
Messages in this topic (61)
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