[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12379
There are 25 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1a. Re: How Much To Feed....Disagreement?
From: blue eyed
2a. Re: Free Range Raw Feeding
From: costrowski75
2b. Re: Free Range Raw Feeding
From: robtkatz
2c. Re: Free Range Raw Feeding
From: robtkatz
2d. Re: Free Range Raw Feeding
From: jennifer_hell
2e. Re: Free Range Raw Feeding
From: Giselle
2f. Re: Free Range Raw Feeding
From: carnesbill
3a. Re: Liver -- Is it too much copper?
From: costrowski75
4a. Re: How to tell if it is any good?
From: zziska
5a. Murcury in Mackerel
From: arabianbluedobe
5b. Re: Murcury in Mackerel
From: costrowski75
6.1. Re: green tripe
From: ELLEN DIX
6.2. Re: green tripe
From: carnesbill
6.3. Re: green tripe
From: Sandee Lee
6.4. Re: green tripe
From: geraldinebutterfield
6.5. Re: green tripe
From: Yasuko herron
6.6. Re: green tripe
From: Sandee Lee
6.7. Re: green tripe
From: Giselle
7a. What about vitamin D?
From: robtkatz
7b. Re: What about vitamin D?
From: carnesbill
7c. Re: What about vitamin D?
From: Yasuko herron
8a. Re: Bacteria
From: Sai Simonson
9a. Re: Anyone from Alabama?
From: jenna
10a. Re: meaty meat meals
From: Jamie Dolan
11a. wish me luck
From: donna
Messages
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1a. Re: How Much To Feed....Disagreement?
Posted by: "blue eyed" eyed_blue@yahoo.co.uk eyed_blue
Date: Sat Dec 15, 2007 7:39 am ((PST))
<I think that you need to start his raw diet off with a newbie
approach. Tripe and pork hocks probably shouldn't find themselves on
the menu of new to raw food dogs. Feed him 2% of his ideal body
weight a day. Start off with one protein, i would vote for chicken,
and feed only chicken for a week. If he has loose stools, you can
remove the skin and the fat. Tripe can cause loose stools in seasoned
raw fed dogs and pork hocks are too fatty for a new to raw dog.
Operator error has been known to cause lots of grief for newbie dogs.
Good Luck, KathyM>
I have to agree with Kathy here, only I would say do this with all of them, dont worry too much about numbers and go by the individual dogs, how do they look? stools good? energetic and bright eyed?.....
My dog has never seemed to go by numbers (maybe no one told him! lol) he always eats under or over! Just go back to the beginning and start slow, chicken for a week, everything going well then you can introduce your next protein.....
Worked for mine anyway.
Natalie
---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (13)
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2a. Re: Free Range Raw Feeding
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sat Dec 15, 2007 7:50 am ((PST))
"Robert Katz" <robtkatz@...> wrote:
>
> Can we do better than just Raw Feeding? Predators in the wild ate
> range free prey. The meat composition of range free fowl or beef or
> rabbit is quite different from farm raised, antibiotic and grain fed
> chickens. So how much better would it be to feed the fellows range
> free meats? One thing for sure, it'll be much more expensive.
*****
I'm araid I don't see your point.
Are you saying we must feed wild and/or free range meats? Clearly
that's a must not all of us can muster. I can't believe you mean to
say "feed free range or forget it", so I'm kinda lost about where
you're going with this.
Chris O
Messages in this topic (8)
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2b. Re: Free Range Raw Feeding
Posted by: "robtkatz" robtkatz@gmail.com robtkatz
Date: Sat Dec 15, 2007 8:48 am ((PST))
MODERATOR'S NOTE: PLEASE TRIM YOUR MESSAGES.
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "costrowski75" <Chriso75@...> wrote:
>
> "Robert Katz" <robtkatz@> wrote:
> >
> > Can we do better than just Raw Feeding? Predators in the wild ate
> > range free prey. The meat composition of range free fowl or beef or
> > rabbit is quite different from farm raised, antibiotic and grain fed
> > chickens. So how much better would it be to feed the fellows range
> > free meats? One thing for sure, it'll be much more expensive.
> *****
> I'm araid I don't see your point.
> Are you saying we must feed wild and/or free range meats? Clearly
> that's a must not all of us can muster. I can't believe you mean to
> say "feed free range or forget it", so I'm kinda lost about where
> you're going with this.
> Chris O
>
You read more than I wrote. I just asked if there would be a
difference, possibly significant, if one uses range free grass fed
meats. The gist of my article was a question, not a statement. Your
rephrasing my question into the statement, "feed free range or forget
it," is a raw fabrication (new group?).
So I'm not going anywhere, but I am still looking for answers to my
question.
--
Regards,
---Robert
Messages in this topic (8)
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2c. Re: Free Range Raw Feeding
Posted by: "robtkatz" robtkatz@gmail.com robtkatz
Date: Sat Dec 15, 2007 8:49 am ((PST))
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "jennifer_hell" <jenniferhell@...>
wrote:
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Katz" <robtkatz@> wrote:
> So how much better would it be to feed the fellows range
> > free meats?
> >
> Well, if you feed free range/ grass fed (like, never been in a feed
> lot) cattle for example, you don't need to balance the Omega-6/Omega-3
> ratio with salmon oil like you need to when feeding cattle that was
> fed grain. Similar applies for eggs and poultry.
> Some info:
> http://www.leopold.iastate.edu/research/grants/2007/2006-M01.pdf
> http://www.csuchico.edu/agr/grassfedbeef/research/lipid/index.html
>
> More info, also on different meat, comes up when you google. =)
>
>
> Jennifer
>
Thanks Jennifer. Do you use supplements of salmon oil? What about
cod liver oil, which has got vitamin D? Are there any other
supplements that you use?
--
Regards,
---Robert
Messages in this topic (8)
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2d. Re: Free Range Raw Feeding
Posted by: "jennifer_hell" jenniferhell@web.de jennifer_hell
Date: Sat Dec 15, 2007 9:10 am ((PST))
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "robtkatz" <robtkatz@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks Jennifer. Do you use supplements of salmon oil? What about
> cod liver oil, which has got vitamin D? Are there any other
> supplements that you use?
>
I would usually not even give her the salmon oil, because I feed only
meat from free range grass fed animals (luckily I found cheap and good
sources nearby). But my girl has arthritis and spondylosis, and right
now is painfree with salmon oil, ester-c, DLPA and a combo of
glucosamin/ chondroitin/ MSM. So I stick with those (took me a few
months to find an effective combo).
Again- if she was totally healthy, I wouldn't add anything to her diet. =)
Jennifer
Messages in this topic (8)
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2e. Re: Free Range Raw Feeding
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sat Dec 15, 2007 9:24 am ((PST))
Hi, Robert!
I was a little stymied by your post, too. Its very hard to
transmit tone of voice and read facial expressions in an email. Even if we
could, Yahoo! would probably miss sending them. ; ) I didn't read your
statements as questions asking for clarification or verification.
The subjects you raise are subjects that come up again and again on this
list.
Doing some searching for archived messages using the pertinent key words
will get you tons of excellent advice from the experienced raw feeders here.
A few messages a cursory search turned up on Vit D, Salmon/Fish Body oil,
free range;
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/148277
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/144627
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/148939
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/148015
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/146653
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/146362
It can be tedious to do your "home work" in the archives before starting a
new topic and asking a Q, but believe you me, these are very popular
questions, and you may miss marvelous past answers from experienced and
knowledgeable raw feeders who aren't paying attention on 'your' day or are
too pooped to rephrase what they've typed before, and interesting side
discussions from past postings if you don't do a little gold digging.
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey
"Robert Katz" <robtkatz@...> wrote:
Can we do better than just Raw Feeding? Predators in the wild ate
range free prey. The meat composition of range free fowl or beef or
rabbit is quite different from farm raised, antibiotic and grain fed
chickens. So how much better would it be to feed the fellows range
free meats? One thing for sure, it'll be much more expensive.
*****
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Messages in this topic (8)
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2f. Re: Free Range Raw Feeding
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sat Dec 15, 2007 10:40 am ((PST))
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Katz" <robtkatz@...> wrote:
>
> So how much better would it be to feed the fellows range
> free meats?
I suspect very little difference could be detected. It would be cool
if someone fed two identical dogs free range vs. regular grocery store
meat. Don't think it's gonna happen.
Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm
Feeding Raw since October 2002
"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale
Messages in this topic (8)
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3a. Re: Liver -- Is it too much copper?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sat Dec 15, 2007 7:54 am ((PST))
"robtkatz" <robtkatz@...> wrote:
>
> Copper toxicosis effects several breeds. Liver and organ meats have a
> high copper content. How careful must we be in feeding the fellows
liver?
*****
If you feed liver in amounts based on its presence in typical prey
animals you are not likely to get anywhere near the toxic levels.
Chris O
Messages in this topic (3)
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4a. Re: How to tell if it is any good?
Posted by: "zziska" zcdz@aol.com zziska
Date: Sat Dec 15, 2007 8:16 am ((PST))
Hi,
I'm a new member here. The amount of information is staggering!
This post on road kill caught my eye since we get that often out here.
Our "ranch" has a gully where a lot of wild animals go to give birth
or to die (I'm convinced the rocky cliff at the top of the gully is a
prime lounging spot for our local mountain lion). I will find a dead
elk or deer lying around in the winter- maybe one a year. The local
coyotes, ravens and magpies normally make quick work of it. Here are a
few observations. When the animal is out for about a day something
will normally go for the gut first- and there will be a fair amount of
offal- and normally a good ball of dung lying near. The natural
scavengers avoid the dung- my dogs do not. They think it's Christmas.
Thankfully most of this gets thrown up within an 8 hour period but
that doesn't stop the pups from scarfing it down the next time- and
with gusto. The second thing is that we have wasting disease out here
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=retrieve&db=pubmed&list_uids=11974617
There's nothing which I can find that links this to any canine
diseases but there was a little publisized event about 2 years ago of
Creutzfeldt-Jakob in a man who had eaten elk meat from one of his
hunting trips. I've heard reports of dogs getting worms from old
carcusses but have not had the experience with mine (thankfully).
Summer is prime time for prairie dogs - the corgis are very good at
killing prairie dogs- but again I try and discourage too much of that
critter chow not for their sake- but for mine. Our local ground
squirrels can carry plague to which the dogs are immune but I am not.
The same thing goes for field and deer mice- the dogs are immune to
Hanta virus- I am not and it can be transferred from dog to human.
I suppose what I'm saying is that my first reaction to finding a dead
deer isn't "Gee treats!" which is certainly the reaction of the pack.
For one thing the smell of 2 day old dead elk may not be what you want
to invite into the house for snuggles and cuddles at night. The fur
kids get a lot of treats from the butcher but I do try and "trade out"
the skulls and vertebrea they bring home.
Messages in this topic (6)
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5a. Murcury in Mackerel
Posted by: "arabianbluedobe" arabianbluedobe@yahoo.com arabianbluedobe
Date: Sat Dec 15, 2007 8:49 am ((PST))
I bought some canned Mackerel for my blue dobe who seems to need some
added fish oils. I was all prepared to feed it but then I read on the
USDA website that it is a high mecury content fish. I would only feed
about 15 oz a week, is this going to be too much mercury? Fresh is
hard to come by. Should I just supplement with salon Oil? Thanks for
the help.
I am still working on the book we all talked about earlier this year.
When I am ready to post others words I will contact you individually
for permission.
April
Messages in this topic (2)
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5b. Re: Murcury in Mackerel
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sat Dec 15, 2007 9:03 am ((PST))
"arabianbluedobe" <arabianbluedobe@...> wrote:>
> I bought some canned Mackerel for my blue dobe who seems to need some
> added fish oils.
*****
An occasional can of mackerel will not supply all the Omega 3s missing
in a typical feedlot-/factory-based menu. Feed canned mackerel if you
must for protein variety; the associated Omega 3s will be nice but not
significant.
Canned mackerel is almost always jack mackerel. There are several
species of mackerel that may represent mercury accumulations over
time/excess but jack isn't one of them. Raw or canned.
Should I just supplement with salon Oil?
*****
If you cannot rely on grassfed livestock and free ranging poultry and
you want to get more Omega 3 into your dogs' diet, using fish body oil
(not liver oil) is a natural enough way to do it. Salmon oil is just
one option: a mix of fish (herring, sardine, mackerel) is also
excellent.
Chris O
Messages in this topic (2)
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6.1. Re: green tripe
Posted by: "ELLEN DIX" ellileeah22@verizon.net ellileeah
Date: Sat Dec 15, 2007 9:10 am ((PST))
Bill, I have a question: Is all that "white stuff" fat , which is attached to the walls of the inside of the stomach? I just was given the whole stomach and the dogs thought the smell was heaven sent. (as in scent) ;-), but they sure don't need that much fat.
Ellileeah Wheatens
Ellen L.Dix
You will not be able to buy green tripe from any establishment that
sells food for human consumption. You can only buy it at slaghter
Bill Carnes
,
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Messages in this topic (90)
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6.2. Re: green tripe
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sat Dec 15, 2007 10:40 am ((PST))
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "ELLEN DIX" <ellileeah22@...> wrote:
>
> Bill, I have a question: Is all that "white stuff" fat , which is
attached to the walls of the inside of the stomach?
Someone eles will have to answer that. I have never actually seen
tripe except the bleached garbage they sell in grocery stores and it
was all white.
Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm
Feeding Raw since October 2002
"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale
Messages in this topic (90)
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6.3. Re: green tripe
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sat Dec 15, 2007 12:04 pm ((PST))
Most likely it is fat....but there is no reason not to feed it. Dogs need
fat!
Sandee & the Dane Gang
From: "ELLEN DIX" <ellileeah22@verizon.net>
> Bill, I have a question: Is all that "white stuff" fat , which is
attached to the walls of the inside of the stomach? I just was given the
whole stomach and the dogs thought the smell was heaven sent. (as in scent)
;-), but they sure don't need that much fat.
Messages in this topic (90)
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6.4. Re: green tripe
Posted by: "geraldinebutterfield" gbutterflied@comcast.net geraldinebutterfield
Date: Sat Dec 15, 2007 1:17 pm ((PST))
Thanks to everyone who replied about green tripe. Looks like I may
end up ordering it.
Another question- is beef tongue good for dogs? I just bought some
and just the looks of it is GROSS!
geraldine
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Giselle <megan.giselle@...> wrote:
>
> http://www.greentripe.com/
>
> http://www.aplaceforpaws.com/rawgreenuntr.html
>
> http://www.momofood.com/store/index.php?
main_page=product_info&products_id=87
>
> TC
> Giselle
>
>
> On Dec 14, 2007 11:25 PM, geraldinebutterfield <gbutterflied@...>
> wrote:
>
> > Does anyone know where I can find green trip in the Willamette
Valley
> > of Oregon?
Messages in this topic (90)
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6.5. Re: green tripe
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sat Dec 15, 2007 1:17 pm ((PST))
Overall,if you look at this site http://www.greentripe.com/ andclick analysys button on left side,and you get to see what your dog gets other than fat.It gets you protin of course but it gives you fiber,calcium,Vitamins,Taurine etc etc list go on and, it also has good probiotic effect and good thing to feed.
I think white thing will be fat although I have never seen actual chunk of tripe. I get ground tripe.
I sometimes find white jelly bean-like shaped white thing in tripe but whatare they?
Is it fat too???
I get tripe with spleen(ground).
I never find out what it is yet.
yassy
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
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Messages in this topic (90)
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6.6. Re: green tripe
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sat Dec 15, 2007 1:21 pm ((PST))
Yup...anything that is part of the animal is great! Tongue is good
stuff...wish it wasn't so expensive....we all love it! :)
Sandee & the Dane Gang
From: "geraldinebutterfield" <gbutterflied@comcast.net>
Thanks to everyone who replied about green tripe. Looks like I may
end up ordering it.
Another question- is beef tongue good for dogs? I just bought some
and just the looks of it is GROSS!
Messages in this topic (90)
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6.7. Re: green tripe
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sat Dec 15, 2007 1:33 pm ((PST))
Hi, Geraldine!
Yup, every pat of an animal has its place in a dog's
diet, if we can just get it and feed it.
Actually tongue is very sweet and tasty. For people, you simmer it in
seasoned water, and strip off the outer covering. Slices up lovely into
sammies on rye with mustard!
You should see Bison tongue, if you think cow tongue looks gross! Heh heh,
its all black and the smell is worse than halitosis! lol
Yassy - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spleen
TC
Giselle
On Dec 15, 2007 3:57 PM, geraldinebutterfield <gbutterflied@comcast.net>
wrote:
> Thanks to everyone who replied about green tripe. Looks like I may
> end up ordering it.
>
> Another question- is beef tongue good for dogs? I just bought some
> and just the looks of it is GROSS!
>
> geraldine
>
>
>
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Messages in this topic (90)
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7a. What about vitamin D?
Posted by: "robtkatz" robtkatz@gmail.com robtkatz
Date: Sat Dec 15, 2007 9:16 am ((PST))
I see that some of you supplement the raw diet with salmon oil to add
Omega 3. What about cod liver oil instead, which will also supply
vitamin D along with Omega 3. How else do the fellows get their
vitamin D, especially in the winter?
--
Regards,
---Robert
Messages in this topic (3)
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7b. Re: What about vitamin D?
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sat Dec 15, 2007 10:40 am ((PST))
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "robtkatz" <robtkatz@...> wrote:
>
> I see that some of you supplement the raw diet with salmon oil to add
> Omega 3.
If you read here enough you will find people that will supplemnet with
everything imaginable. It doesn't mean our dogs need it. If your dog
is healthy, energetic and has a nice coat he doesn't need any
supplements at all. I haven't given my dogs supplements in 5 years
except for the glucomsamine/chondroiton/MSM I gave my arthritic
Goldens in thier last couple of years.
< What about cod liver oil instead, which will also supply
> vitamin D along with Omega 3.
It also supplies Vitamin A which you don't want to feed too much of.
> How else do the fellows get their
> vitamin D, especially in the winter?
Same way you do assuming you don't take daily vitamin pills. Don't
spend so much time worrying about every possible nutrient. If you
feed a variety of animal parts from a variety of animals, all the
nutrients are there. You are way overthinking the process.
Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm
Feeding Raw since October 2002
"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale
Messages in this topic (3)
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7c. Re: What about vitamin D?
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sat Dec 15, 2007 1:36 pm ((PST))
>> How else do the fellows get their vitamin D, especially in the winter?
From food. ,liver,kidney,Fish,.. I did not look at meat but,kidneyand liver andfish hassome vitamin D and, Sunlight gets D too.
Vitamin D is not like other vitamins that are flash out in urine like vitamin B and C,so,even if you are not giving enough D in diet all the time,dog can get it from stored Vitamin D in body.
I don't supplement my dog with Vitamin D but she is fine,no ill effect.
yassy
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Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
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Messages in this topic (3)
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8a. Re: Bacteria
Posted by: "Sai Simonson" saiczarina@comcast.net keikokat
Date: Sat Dec 15, 2007 9:42 am ((PST))
I know there has been discussion of this before I joined list so sorry.
Both of my vets (one here in Portland and one in Minnesota) said the
same thing...my MN vet said most vets are trained to give this "story"
but it is totally false. Both of my vets feed raw.
Sai
it was the raw bones that carry
> this bacteria.
Well, the vet had to come up with some story and this is as good as
any EXCEPT the true one. This story is fantasy.
Bill Carnes
Messages in this topic (11)
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9a. Re: Anyone from Alabama?
Posted by: "jenna" jennawing@charter.net jennawing
Date: Sat Dec 15, 2007 12:39 pm ((PST))
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, donna <heartathome@...> wrote:
>
> Deb
> I am.. near huntsville :)
> donna
>
> >Hello group,
> >I've been *lurking* here for a while now, and thought I'd say hi.
> >Thanks for the wealth of information you've provided, it's been very
> >reassuring during my transition to RAW.
> >
> >Deb
Hi! We are in Walker County. We are new (about 4 weeks) to raw
feeding, too. You've found a great source of information! Welcome!
-jenna (AL)
Messages in this topic (4)
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10a. Re: meaty meat meals
Posted by: "Jamie Dolan" jamiedolan@gmail.com jamiedolan
Date: Sat Dec 15, 2007 5:16 pm ((PST))
> small enough. When it is small enough it sure doesn't seem like much
> food. Are the whole fryers smaller than the individual parts I have
> been buying? I definitely need a small kitchen scale until I can
> eyeball it.
Marge;
How small are your dogs? I will give my 19 pound boy a 1 pound meal.
That is a bit on the large size for him, but manageable. However, if
your doing 2 meals a day, then you do have to cut that about in half,
8 to 10 ounces.
I have 2 problems with buying pieces of meat instead of whole animals / birds.
If you buy and feed whole birds, then you know the dogs are more or
less getting an appoiate amount of meat to bird ratio. Although, a
whole bird may still have a bit more bone than they do need. What I
see happen is that people tend to fall into this pattern of buying
necks, wings, backs, and they end up feeding way too much bone to
there dogs. So if you can feed these items with enough meaty meat,
then you are ok from that standpoint.
The other thing I have a problem with is that when you get pieces that
are too small, it makes it more likely that they will choke on stuff.
It is extremely hard for a dog to choke on pieces of meat and bone
that are attacked to the rest of a bird.
One option is to give them whole birds or larger pieces of birds, and
then just take it away when they eat about the desired amount. I know
that can sometimes be an issue with some dogs where it can be
difficult to take away the meat.
If you use smaller pieces of meat, then just do be careful that they
do not choke on them.
>
> I do need to say that even in the three days my dog's breath is so much
> better! Pepper has severe allergy to something..always scratching self
> bloddy on chin and neck. His coat is dull and unhealthy, eyes always
> need goop cleaned out and he has chronic ear infections that need
> constant managing. I am praying this diet helps with some of this, he
> is miserable and has been since we rescued them in 2006.
>
It may take some time, but a high quality diet will help them and is
one of the best things you can do for them.
> Thanks to all for the great support. I read the archives regularly but
> it is great to have the live support too.
Your welcome.
Let me know the weight of your dogs and I'll try to make some more
suggestions to help you out.
Good Luck!!!
Jamie
Messages in this topic (11)
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11a. wish me luck
Posted by: "donna" heartathome@att.net jubileeberry
Date: Sat Dec 15, 2007 5:16 pm ((PST))
I got my 7 week old neo mastiff today.. of course the breeder
recommended IAMS...LOL
i just smiled.
SO i bought chicken wings and pigs feet today and chicken livers and
put them all in the freezer except for some wings for the next few
days...
We shall see tomorrow how she does. :)
--
Namaste,
donna
)O(
Uppity Women Unite
Messages in this topic (4)
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posted by Feed Pets Raw Food @ 5:16 PM
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