Feed Pets Raw Food: Jul 19, 2007

Thursday, July 19, 2007

[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11826

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: where do i feed the dogs
From: Sonja
1b. Re: where do i feed the dogs
From: millser25
1c. Re: where do i feed the dogs
From: Yasuko herron
1d. Re: where do i feed the dogs
From: Dorianne Almann
1e. Re: where do i feed the dogs
From: Alan & Andrea Southern

2a. Re: cat gaining weight since i switched from rabbit to chicken
From: Yasuko herron
2b. Re: cat gaining weight since i switched from rabbit to chicken
From: costrowski75

3a. Re: soft stools
From: pet.wellness

4a. Re: An Intro & A Question about Salmonella in Small Breed Pups
From: susan/foxfire

5a. why is my dog not eating???
From: celebrationcookies
5b. Re: why is my dog not eating???
From: Andrea
5c. Re: why is my dog not eating???
From: carolyn arnold

6a. Re: Pancreatitis
From: Elizabeth
6b. Re: Pancreatitis
From: Ross Senger
6c. Re: Pancreatitis
From: tottime47
6d. Re: Pancreatitis
From: Sandee Lee

7. Newie to raw feeding needs advice
From: lmustoe

8a. Re: pooping matter
From: Yasuko herron
8b. Re: pooping matter
From: ginny wilken

9a. Re: Sterilizing Crate
From: Ash
9b. Re: Sterilizing Crate
From: Morledzep@aol.com

10a. Re: Dogs normally gain weight after being on raw diet a while and lo
From: Yasuko herron

11a. Re: question about bone meals
From: verrelli

12a. Re: Dogs normally gain weight after being on raw diet a while and lo
From: Laurie Swanson

13a. Re: Regarding Fats and Oils
From: ginny wilken

Messages
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1a. Re: where do i feed the dogs
Posted by: "Sonja" ladyver@sbcglobal.net lonepalm77
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2007 11:42 am ((PDT))

When we bought the house we have now, there were some ugly but super-high quality curtains (thick!). They were lined and everything. I threw them in the washer and now they make wonderful mats for feeding animal parts to my dog.

I think the former owner of the house would have a heart attack if she knew. :-)

But since not all of us have ugly curtains to feed our dogs on, my second choice would be a vinyl tablecloth.

Sonja

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Messages in this topic (8)
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1b. Re: where do i feed the dogs
Posted by: "millser25" millser25@yahoo.com millser25
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:15 pm ((PDT))

I have a folding pen that we put our boy in at feeding time. My hubby
doesn't like putting the metal pen on the wood floor in the kitchen (I
totally agree), and our doggie is a BIG boy, so, he would tear up a
shower curtain/ plastic film and he needs too much area for a square
of vinyl to make sense. So, I've got an old carpet scrap that I just
roll out for him and encircle with the folding pen. After he eats, I
just lysol it down, roll it back up and put it away. I can't say it
is the most sanitary, but we haven't had any problems yet. Sometimes
I just toss it outside and let him eat on the lawn.

Just out of curiosity, what sort of mess are your dogs making on the
porch? Is it just that the porch is becoming contaminated, or is
there blood/scraps left on the porch?

Erica

Messages in this topic (8)
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1c. Re: where do i feed the dogs
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2007 1:18 pm ((PDT))

>he would tear up a shower curtain/ plastic film

Hi.I just thought you are thinking about very light weight cotton or plastic shower curtain when you read my posting maybe? What I meant was heavy waterproof vynile shower curtrain that you normally hung inside to shower,not outside one.I got it at Bed bath beyond around 14 dollars with 5 dollar coupon so,it was 9 dolars curtain but it lasts long enough.Dog can tore this heavy thick vynile shower curtain too if the dog was Dane or other huge dog??

Depending on doggy size,this may not good mat for feeding,but for my corgi dog,it is enough and she relax and eat on it nicely.

I used to use picnic vynile table cloth (2 dollars) but,it tore easily when I washed.

this shower curtain does not tear.

It is up to feeders what to use to feed meal on but for me,this is my fav mat to feed on.

yassy

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Messages in this topic (8)
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1d. Re: where do i feed the dogs
Posted by: "Dorianne Almann" rottienh@hotmail.com rottieruckus
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2007 1:20 pm ((PDT))

I just moved our Rottie foster boy to raw June 26. Our two personal
girls are moving to raw, too.

FB eats on the lawn on one side of the house. One girl eats on the
other side of the house. Second girl eats in the front yard.

So, short answer--the dogs are fed on the lawns. This will likely
continue during the winter as I love shoveling snow and shovel paths
around the house where SO doesn't plow.

BTW--There's no problem with them eating anything on the lawns. Our
property was an organic farm before we bought it about 12 years ago.
We don't put anything down on the grounds/gardens except mulch from
our composters or horse manure from friends.

As far as one of your dogs not liking raw chicken: One of the girls
wasn't sure she initially liked raw sardines. When she didn't eat it,
I took it away from her, then chopped it into pieces that I mixed with
her dinner. She ate everything. Mox now eats sardines whole.

Dori

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "maradethc" <maradethc@...> wrote:
>
> ***MODERATOR'S NOTE: SIGN YOUR MESSAGES.***
>
>
> Hi I have a question? Where do you feed your dogs the raw food. Its
> making a big mess on the porch.
> And one of my dogs wont eat the raw chicken...what do you think i
> should do. my other 2 dogs love it
> thanks
>

Messages in this topic (8)
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1e. Re: where do i feed the dogs
Posted by: "Alan & Andrea Southern" wykham@sa.chariot.net.au seawyndriana
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2007 4:42 pm ((PDT))

Ours eat on the lawn and the cats in the laundry or bat room on tiles...

Alan in Aldinga Beach South Australia
with the SP's Marli, Ella & Tango
http://www2.snapfish.com/photolibrary/owned_view=owned_az/t_=100236344
http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/wykham/TangoSPups
http://users.chariot.net.au/~wykham

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (8)
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2a. Re: cat gaining weight since i switched from rabbit to chicken
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2007 11:51 am ((PDT))

>Rabbit is generally leaner than chicken, depending of course of what chicken parts you are >feeding and whatever else is on the menu.

Hi,Chris.I do not have cat but my dog gained at least with vet office scale 4 lbs since cange from kibble to raw.

If chicken was more calorie taking meat then,chicken is making her gain weight?

Up to today,I have fed sorely chicken,beef,pork,Turkey for a week or so each protin and fish 2 times a week and since I having problem with lamb lately(she is fed lamb for 2 weeks this week),I am using chicken with lamb combo meal since chicken is her base meal(does well on) and it has small amount of lamb in chicken meal.

Would that be gaining cause?

Just a thought.

yassy

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Messages in this topic (4)
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2b. Re: cat gaining weight since i switched from rabbit to chicken
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:09 pm ((PDT))

Yasuko herron <sunshine_annamaria@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,Chris.I do not have cat but my dog gained at least with vet
office scale 4 lbs since cange from kibble to raw.
>
> If chicken was more calorie taking meat then,chicken is making
her gain weight?
*****
The big three reasons for weight gain are
--Too many calories eaten.
--Too few calories expended.
--Undiagnosed health issue.

All things being equal, if chicken has more calories than other foods
then weight gain would be a reasonable result.

But all things are rarely equal, so weight gain could also be a
result of too little exercise or a health problem.

> Up to today,I have fed sorely chicken,beef,pork,Turkey for a week
or so each protin and fish 2 times a week and since I having problem
with lamb lately(she is fed lamb for 2 weeks this week),I am using
chicken with lamb combo meal since chicken is her base meal(does well
on) and it has small amount of lamb in chicken meal.
>
> Would that be gaining cause?
*****
Frankly, I don't see this weight gain as chicken's fault but rather a
simple result of calorie intake exceeding calorie outgo. If you are
feeding her the bare minimum and she's a super athlete, then perhaps
a vet visit is in order.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (4)
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3a. Re: soft stools
Posted by: "pet.wellness" pet.wellness@yahoo.com pet.wellness
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:17 pm ((PDT))

More bone will harden up stools. As for nutrients, don't be
brainwashed by pet food manufacturer's who claim to infuse so much
"goodness" into bad stuff. Try to relax and go with the flow. If your
dog gets a decent variety of raw foods over time, she will be eating
plenty of nutrition. You need to give it more time. Pamela

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "kovs74" <superflydaddyo@...> wrote:
>
> Hi my 8 week old puppy has been on raw chicken for about 5 days now
> and she still has soft stools. I've tried smaller meals 3 times a day
> and I've also tried larger meals ie whole thigh with back attatched.

Messages in this topic (3)
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4a. Re: An Intro & A Question about Salmonella in Small Breed Pups
Posted by: "susan/foxfire" fxfireob@mac.com thadnsusan
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:43 pm ((PDT))

Well I heard back from the breeder today, after sending her a
wonderfully informative email with lots of links I got a very short
and vague reply. It seems she now believes us but I don't think I
impacted her prejudges on raw diet. It feels like we're getting
blown off and now we're sort of "black listed" because we feed raw,
so I guess we will be looking for a new breeder/breed:) We are sad
because it makes Modi's loss that much more painful. I wish we knew
an enlightened breeder. But I want to really thank people like those
on this group, who are there for others when they need support, it
makes a difference so don't underestimate it.

Many Thanks,
Susan
Austin, Tx
fxfireob@mac.com

On Tue, 17 Jul 2007, at 3:06 PM, bluegracepwd wrote:

> find another breeder. Clearly you do not want to buy a dog from
> someone who doesn't feed raw in any case.
>
> My toy poodles are smaller than your dogs, and to suggest that the
> size of the dog is effected differently from bacteria is ludicrious.
>
> - Jane

Messages in this topic (10)
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5a. why is my dog not eating???
Posted by: "celebrationcookies" celebrationcookies@yahoo.com celebrationcookies
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:47 pm ((PDT))

My GSD has been successfully eating raw for a month now. BUT, 2 days
ago she quit eating. She got into some kibble and ate THAT!!! She has
not had that in weeks! I don't understand. Help!! Thanks Carolyn

Messages in this topic (3)
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5b. Re: why is my dog not eating???
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2007 1:19 pm ((PDT))

Has anything changed? Is a new kind of food being offered, did you
shop at a different store, buy a different brand? Did she begin to
refuse food after she got into ki**le, and how did she "get into
some"? Is her activity level ok? Since the temp has been rising, my
GSP eats a fraction of what he was eating two months ago.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "celebrationcookies"
<celebrationcookies@...> wrote:
>
> My GSD has been successfully eating raw for a month now. BUT, 2 days
> ago she quit eating. She got into some kibble and ate THAT!!! She
has
> not had that in weeks! I don't understand. Help!! Thanks Carolyn
>

Messages in this topic (3)
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5c. Re: why is my dog not eating???
Posted by: "carolyn arnold" celebrationcookies@yahoo.com celebrationcookies
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:16 pm ((PDT))

***MODERATOR'S NOTE: TRIM AND SIGN YOUR MESSAGES!***

I began offering some liver into her diet and she ate it right up. I think that she may LOVE the liver and the chicken is not such a great thing compared to the liver. Maybe she is getting fussy???? no differrence in temp. Texas...hot!!

Andrea <poketmouse45@yahoo.com> wrote: Has anything changed? Is a new kind of food being offered, did you
shop at a different store, buy a different brand? Did she begin to
refuse food after she got into ki**le, and how did she "get into
some"? Is her activity level ok? Since the temp has been rising, my
GSP eats a fraction of what he was eating two months ago.

Andrea

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Messages in this topic (3)
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6a. Re: Pancreatitis
Posted by: "Elizabeth" lizabeth_us@yahoo.com lizabeth_us
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2007 1:18 pm ((PDT))

Hi,
My rescue came down with pancreatitis a couple of months after we
got her. The vet said it was the raw diet. I did at that time have
her on prednisone-not knowing any better. When I took her out of
the hospital I started slow feeding her. Small meals and I gave her
cooked beef with rice. I did this for a week and then started
giving her more raw and less cooked and less rice and then she was
good again. She did have some light diarrhea. She also has low
thyroid and I attribute that to her being over vaccinated. I don't
know anything about Lupus and any restrictions with that, I'm sure
others know much more about that than me. But I do believe you will
be able to your baby on raw again.
Elizabeth

I've been reading along off and on for about a month...
>
> We have two Tibetian Terriers. We fed them a raw diet for about
two years, stopping about
> two years ago.
>
> One of our dogs pulled a pound of raw butter off the counter, and
they devoured the
> whole thing. One dog got diarrhea - just what I would expect - but
the other went into
> pancreatic shock.
>
> We took him to the clinic where they gave him lots of tests - of
course - and then put him
> on fluids for a day. They gave us some pills to manage the pain
and for some other now
> forgotten things.
>
> Ever since that incident, he has been VERY sensitive to fat.
Feeding him raw meat
> produced and produces severe diarrhea. We went back to the kibble
diet with occasional
> raw meat.
>
> He has since developed Lupus and a low thyroid condition.
>
> I'm a raw vegan. I get totally understand that he needs to be
eating a raw diet.
>
> What I haven't been able to get past is the diarrhea. If it were a
human, I'd say they were
> getting the nutrition they need, so the body has started to
eliminate it's toxic load. I'd say
> that this unpleasant situation will pass. And stay close to the
toilet!
>
> The only strategy I can come up with is to transition very slowly.
>
> Has anyone else out there experienced anything similar? And
navigated through it
> successfully?
>

Messages in this topic (18)
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6b. Re: Pancreatitis
Posted by: "Ross Senger" rosssenger@shaw.ca rosssenger
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2007 1:57 pm ((PDT))

***MODERATOR'S NOTE: SIGN YOUR MESSAGES PLEASE.***

> I have been raw feeding for approx. 10 years and recently have
> had 2 dogs diagnosed and subsequently died of pancreatitis. When I
> began raw feeding, someone warned me about not feeding too much
> protein because they may develop pancreatitis. Has anyone else had
> this happen or heard of this?
*****

My Great Dane Diesel was "diagnosed" with pancreatitis about 1/2 a
year ago. There are many varying levels of the disease ranging from a
sore tummy brought on from a really rich meal to chronic cases where
what they eat can really affect there health.

It is a tough thing to diagnose because, like Chris O stated, there
are usually underlying problems.

When Diesel was diagnosed I followed the vet instructions and fed him
boiled ground beef and rice for a week. I then switched back to the
vet prescribed kibble (expensive stuff). Diesel started having the
same symptoms right away.... after spending (in my humble opinion)
too much time and money on the Ki**le junk the vet was putting in my
dogs bowl I took the plunge and went raw.

Diesel now has no symptoms, hardly ever goes to the vet, and eats
whatever he wants as long at its meat and its raw. He can handle full
3 lb meal of bison heart.

Messages in this topic (18)
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6c. Re: Pancreatitis
Posted by: "tottime47" tottime@aol.com tottime47
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:23 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Ross Senger" <rosssenger@...> wrote:
I have been raw feeding for approx. 10 years and recently have
> > had 2 dogs diagnosed and subsequently died of pancreatitis.

Hi Ross,

Were these dogs fed raw for 10 yrs? What kind of dogs were they?

Did they have any symptoms or was it sudden?

Were you doing regular blood panels?

Were you giving them any supplements? enzymes?

Just asking questions as this seems to be a common problem in a lot
of the dogs I know.....mostly those on k***le.......

Carol

Messages in this topic (18)
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6d. Re: Pancreatitis
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:32 pm ((PDT))

We have discussed this many times in the past...if you do a search on
pancreatitis or EPI you will find a lot of info. Here is a small sampling
of past messages.....
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/122181
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/122224
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/91117
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/60393
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/88618

Sandee & the Dane Gang

Messages in this topic (18)
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7. Newie to raw feeding needs advice
Posted by: "lmustoe" lmustoe@yahoo.co.uk lmustoe
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2007 1:24 pm ((PDT))

Hi all
I've just got a 9 week old boxerxpointer and i want to start her on raw
but i was wondering how much and which meat would be best for her.
Any advice would be much appreiciated.
Kindest Regards
Lee

Messages in this topic (1)
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8a. Re: pooping matter
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2007 1:36 pm ((PDT))

>if the dog is not eating solid food for one reason or another, that one may mix the slippery >elm powder in some broth or cream to get it into the dog.

Hi,Ginny! Thanks! Now I know what you meant. so,if you see firmer stool,you stop giving Elms and then see how she/he does then. I do not want to fully rely on probiotic/Elms and I like to see her gutt can handle by itself so,that method will be great.

>Color doesn't matter, but it is very watery and uncontrollable, even explosive. It may >contain solid bits.

I am not quite sure why she had Green color goo pooo after Tilapia.Tilapia is not Green fish! She did not graze on grass as well.THat is something interesting to know why green poo while ate non green stuff.She did not munch on mint rawhide as well that day.Wiered...

>No, this is loose stool, but not uncontrollable diarrhea

So in definition of loose stool and diarrhea,as long as dog can control and no accident in house,then,even if goo poo or watery even once a day then,no worry and it can get better with fixing feeding stuff,Ok.I understand now better.Thank you.

>Tomochan wa toreningu no meirei ga subete nihongo desu.

Sugoi kaishikoi inu desune. "Tomo chan,osuwari"

Did she sit now?ha-ha.

yassy

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Messages in this topic (9)
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8b. Re: pooping matter
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2007 6:47 pm ((PDT))

>
> Sugoi kaishikoi inu desune. "Tomo chan,osuwari"
>
> Did she sit now?ha-ha.
>
> yassy

Tomochan wa osu desuga. Tadaima mado no mae ni yoko shite imas:).
Jitsu wa kyonen totsuzen mimi ga kikoenaku natta no de, wakatta tango
wa zenbu muda ni narimashita.

Pardon me, all. I was just explaining that since Tomo has gone deaf,
his large Japanese vocabulary is going to waste.

He never forgets the language of dinner, however, and tonight is a
slab of pork ribs and some grassfed beef liver. I hope the bones win,
because he has been a bit loose and his anal glands have gone stinky,
I think from lack of stimulation. Now back to your scheduled
programming....

ginny and Tomo

All stunts performed without a net!

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Messages in this topic (9)
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9a. Re: Sterilizing Crate
Posted by: "Ash" want4rain@yahoo.com want4rain
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2007 1:54 pm ((PDT))

***MODERATOR'S NOTE: PLEASE TRIM YOUR MESSAGES.***

ive always raw fed Mister outside. id really like to feed him in his
kennel inside (generous size *rolls eyes* we call it Misters Palace).
any of you ahve kids and feed like this? i strongly dislike using
Lyson and the like. for the rest of the house and any meat prep i just
use white vinegar and have never had a problem but i feel a little
nervous about him eating IN the house IN his kennel when i ahve a 16
month old son in here. wouldnt you know he likes eating stuff off the
floor too!!

-ashley

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Goin8@... wrote:
>
> I dont think you have anything to worry about. I take my trays out and
> bleach them at least 3 times a week anyways so eating in their
crates wont hurt
> anything. As for walking around on it, its no different then K****e
and if they
> stepped on that. See what others say about this. Im still at the
clorox clean
> up everything stage myself but most just say use vinegar and water
to clean
> up!
>
> Audrey Johnson
>
>
> "My Goal in Life is to be the kind of person my dog thinks I am!"
>
>
>
> ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the
all-new AOL at
> http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Messages in this topic (7)
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9b. Re: Sterilizing Crate
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2007 4:08 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 7/19/2007 12:59:33 PM Pacific Standard Time,
want4rain@yahoo.com writes:

i strongly dislike using
Lyson and the like. for the rest of the house and any meat prep i just
use white vinegar and have never had a problem but i feel a little
nervous about him eating IN the house IN his kennel when i ahve a 16
month old son in here. wouldnt you know he likes eating stuff off the
floor too!!

***I realize that i missed part of this thread.. but i'm having lots of
trouble trying to figure out who you are trying to kill with the bleach and lysol
and disinfectants.

these things are all poison to humans, dogs AND "germs". If you want
something clean wash it with white vinegar, at least it won't kill the humans and the
dogs..

And i honestly don't see a problem with feeding a dog indoors or outdoors.. i
don't see how it's more dangerous to feed a dog where humans are. I think
i'm losing my mind, or i missed something important in this thread?

Catherine R.

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Messages in this topic (7)
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10a. Re: Dogs normally gain weight after being on raw diet a while and lo
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2007 1:55 pm ((PDT))

> it was just Grover's body growing denser and more muscular, and putting on real adult >muscle.

Hi,Tammy. It looks to me waht you went through is waht I am going through now.Palette looks more muscular and more sturdy stampy legs and got more fur around neck and more adult looks.

> I've noticed forall my dogs that they start to get heavier around the 1.5 year mark.

Palette BD is on Aug 29th and she will be 2 years old this August. so, I think she may have started weigh more from Feb 07 then? Just did not weigh every month and I was just got curious the other day and noticed she gained weight despite the tuck-in tummy and waist line.

So,your dog stopped gaining weight after 1.5 year old ?

My husband was talking about trademill excercise with palette too although he too say that she does not look chubby.

Yassy

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Messages in this topic (10)
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11a. Re: question about bone meals
Posted by: "verrelli" ktverrelli@bellsouth.net verrelli
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:21 pm ((PDT))

Well they probably would love chewing it up but now I wonder if that
is too much bone (and alot of Beard to get chicken guck in )
Kellie
> The 18 lb dog should be able to eat backs with no problem. When I got
> my Great Dane puppy, he was 23 lbs and gobbled them right down.

Messages in this topic (3)
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12a. Re: Dogs normally gain weight after being on raw diet a while and lo
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2007 4:21 pm ((PDT))

I would go more by how she looks than what the scale says,
personally. And, your scale at home may not be the same as the
vet's, so you may or may not necessarily be able to compare those 2
numbers. You might just watch how she looks over the next few weeks
and take her back to the same Petsmart/vet and weigh her again and
see, if you want. Or weigh her at home and check her at home again
in a few weeks. Not sure how accurate those home digital scales are,
though...mine seems to go all over the place. And it's definitely
different than when I go to the doctor or the drugstore and weigh
myself.

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Yasuko herron
<sunshine_annamaria@...> wrote:
>
> >Just a thought--scales are different and can be "off."
>
> Hi,Laurie. Well,I did not think about it until you say that to
me. we have digital scale at home for us to weigh ourselves so,I can
check it again when my husband is around because I can simply deduct
my husband's weight from combo weight.

Messages in this topic (10)
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________________________________________________________________________

13a. Re: Regarding Fats and Oils
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2007 6:02 pm ((PDT))

On Jul 19, 2007, at 10:30 AM, jeff wissler wrote:

> Chris,
> However, if you must also feed grain lot beef, I think
> it may be more beneficial in some instances to add
> things like organic egg yolks and coconut oil in
> greater excess and animal fat slightly less.
>
> That way you get more of the saturated fats with less
> of the omega 6's.
>
> The preferred diet would be grassfed and wild animals
> and nothing more. But, since that isnt available to
> all, some modifications must be made. And the use of
> coconut oil and yolks are a good sub for fat as they
> are low (or have none in some instances) in omega 6
> and eggs have good omega 3. Even Cod liver oil can be
> used sparingly if it must to bring the omega ratio in
> line.

Bear in mind that organic chickens are fed organic crap, corn and
soy, and so the eggs cannot be more well-balanced than the diet of
the hen who lays them. I find fish body oil, not cod liver oil,
useful to provide Omega 3s. It's too easy to provide more Vit A than
the body needs. especially if adequate, in proportion, organs are
fed. And vegetable oils have no place in the diet of a carnivore, and
are different enough in composition as to be unnatural and
potentially irritating.

ginny and Tomo

All stunts performed without a net!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (25)
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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11825

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Starved Stray Food Suggestions
From: Ash

2a. Re: new raw pup has pudding stools
From: Andrea

3a. question about bone meals
From: verrelli
3b. Re: question about bone meals
From: carnesbill

4a. Re: New to group/raw feeding and a few ?'s
From: costrowski75

5a. Re: teething and diarrhea
From: costrowski75
5b. Re: teething and diarrhea
From: Jen S

6a. Re: Regarding Fats and Oils
From: costrowski75
6b. Re: Regarding Fats and Oils
From: jeff wissler

7a. Re: Digest Number 11819
From: costrowski75

8a. Re: Slippery Elm bark
From: ginny wilken
8b. Re: Slippery Elm bark
From: Yasuko herron

9a. Re: Question: 8 week old puppy (Sambuca) need advice on next step
From: costrowski75

10a. Pancreatitis
From: therawretreat

11a. Re: Dogs normally gain weight after being on raw diet a while and lo
From: Sonja
11b. Re: Dogs normally gain weight after being on raw diet a while and lo
From: Yasuko herron

12a. soft stools
From: kovs74
12b. Re: soft stools
From: carnesbill

13a. cat gaining weight since i switched from rabbit to chicken
From: purvisp
13b. Re: cat gaining weight since i switched from rabbit to chicken
From: costrowski75

14a. Re: Sterilizing Crate
From: Laura Atkinson

15a. where do i feed the dogs
From: maradethc
15b. Re: where do i feed the dogs
From: mwood8402
15c. Re: where do i feed the dogs
From: Yasuko herron

16a. Re: adding new meats to diet
From: Katie

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Re: Starved Stray Food Suggestions
Posted by: "Ash" want4rain@yahoo.com want4rain
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2007 8:05 am ((PDT))

fantastic!! we decided to name her Frances after St Francis. she has
gained 2lbs and is eating like a pig. she had an abscess cut on the
base of her tail thats doing wonderful on antibiotics. it was about
the size of a grape, had to be drained. i havent even posted her on
the IAR site for adoption and i already have several friends thinking
of adopting. *chuckles* i guess i have some great friends. two of them
are willing to feed raw prey model and the other is willing to feed
Wellness grain free. (hey, take what you can get right?? LOL) so we
will see where things go.

all in all she is up and playing and curious about the rest of the
house. i havent let her out of our hall/bathroom thats her place quite
yet. we have a very very busy house with a 8yo girl, 16mo old boy, a
dog and 3 cats who are upset about the dog and baby still. :)

thanks for asking! :)

-ashley

In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, woofwoofgrrl <cmc4lists1@...> wrote:
>
> I was hoping you'd let us know how the kitty is doing....
>
> Here's hoping the kitty is getting healthier by the day!
>
> Christine
>

Messages in this topic (14)
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2a. Re: new raw pup has pudding stools
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2007 8:06 am ((PDT))

My first move would be to back off how much food she eats a day.
Four days isn't a super long time for loose stools, but the clear
jelly might indicate some kind of intestinal parasite. Has she been
checked for worms? If reducing the amount of food doesn't work, you
should take a stool sample in for analysis. Let us know how it goes.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "kovs74" <superflydaddyo@...>
wrote:
>
> ***MODERATOR'S NOTE: SIGN YOUR MESSAGES.***
>
>
> HI I'm the proud papa of a 8 week old South African Boerboel named
> Nyah. I've been feeding her raw chicken for about 4 days now and she
> continues to have sloppy stool with clear jelly mixed in. Is this
> normal? I think I might be feeding her too much. I feed her 3 times
> a day, chicken thigh with back attached she does eat it all but I
> think the pieces are too big. Not sure on the weight amounts any
> help would be great thx.

Messages in this topic (2)
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________________________________________________________________________

3a. question about bone meals
Posted by: "verrelli" ktverrelli@bellsouth.net verrelli
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2007 8:48 am ((PDT))

I have been giving chicken next to my smaller dogs and chicken back to
the big one (small ones are 18 lbs Scottish Terriers Big one is 65 lb
Giant Schnauzer)

I seem to read that maybe the chicken necks are too small? and I
should be giving chicken back to small dogs but those seem to be too
much for them should I cut it in 1/2 say length wise??

Kellie

Messages in this topic (2)
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3b. Re: question about bone meals
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2007 11:26 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "verrelli" <ktverrelli@...> wrote:
>
> I
> should be giving chicken back to small dogs but those seem to be too
> much for them should I cut it in 1/2 say length wise??

The 18 lb dog should be able to eat backs with no problem. When I got
my Great Dane puppy, he was 23 lbs and gobbled them right down.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

4a. Re: New to group/raw feeding and a few ?'s
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2007 8:51 am ((PDT))

"lou_losgatos" <lchandler@...> wrote:
> * are digestive enzymes necessary?
*****
Only if the dog's digestive ability indicates. In most cases, no.

* where do I get raw meaty bones small enough for my dachshunds? (10 &
> 13 lbs) Do I ask the butcher to cut smaller pieces for me?
*****
There are several experienced dachshund feeders on this list. I hope
some respond to your question; if not you can search the message
archives for their experiences. Here's how to join Yahoogroups so you
can access the Rawfeeding message archives:
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/join

> * do the dogs need to eat only 1 protein source per week, or is that
> just the recommened way to get them started on a raw food diet?
*****
This is one recommended way to get them started (and the human as well)
but it's not required at any point. I mix meat proteins all the
time.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
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________________________________________________________________________

5a. Re: teething and diarrhea
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2007 8:55 am ((PDT))

"Jen S" <jennilist@...> wrote:
> He did eat some chicken bones (I guess
> they're softer than other types), and yesterday his stool was normal,
but I
> want to give him variety while he is teething, I don't want to have
to feed
> him only chicken until he is past this.
*****
"This" doesn't last very long, so don't worry. If he eats chicken
bones, give him chicken for the bones and give him other boneless meats
for the protein variety. He's getting at least two meals a day, one
can be chicken parts and the other can be whatever you got lying around.

If you need to include bones both meals, try feeding a whole quail with
boneless meat. However, I would think one RMB meal a day should keep
his stools where you would prefer them to be.
C

Messages in this topic (4)
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5b. Re: teething and diarrhea
Posted by: "Jen S" jennilist@gmail.com bowiegirl1979
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2007 9:41 am ((PDT))

Thanks all! I'll try chicken at one meal and other stuff for the other
meal.

Jen

--
The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
-Mahatma Gandhi

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
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6a. Re: Regarding Fats and Oils
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2007 9:02 am ((PDT))

jeff wissler <wisslewj@...> wrote:
> I would still strongly suggest making sure they are
> getting roughly 50% of their fats as good saturated
> ones though.
*****
While "good" may be arguable, how can a dog that only eats animal fats
NOT get saturated fats?

Chris O

Messages in this topic (24)
________________________________________________________________________

6b. Re: Regarding Fats and Oils
Posted by: "jeff wissler" wisslewj@yahoo.com wisslewj
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2007 11:26 am ((PDT))

Chris,

well that was more for the people that cant get really
fatty cuts. Obviously if you are eating animal fats
you are getting the saturated ones.

However, if you must also feed grain lot beef, I think
it may be more beneficial in some instances to add
things like organic egg yolks and coconut oil in
greater excess and animal fat slightly less.

That way you get more of the saturated fats with less
of the omega 6's.

The preferred diet would be grassfed and wild animals
and nothing more. But, since that isnt available to
all, some modifications must be made. And the use of
coconut oil and yolks are a good sub for fat as they
are low (or have none in some instances) in omega 6
and eggs have good omega 3. Even Cod liver oil can be
used sparingly if it must to bring the omega ratio in
line.

However, given the studies that show that polys stay
in the body 600 days and the other one about dogs and
cancer on cod, I would make sure to not overdo and
make sure things like coconut oil are present to
mitigate damages.

Jeff

____________________________________________________________________________________
Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/

Messages in this topic (24)
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7a. Re: Digest Number 11819
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2007 9:23 am ((PDT))

"Giselle" <megan.giselle@...> wrote:
>> Wiki says; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gizzard
> Some birds do swallow stones and grit, to facilitate digestion. But
> chicken gizzards are cut open and cleaned out during processing.
> Pretty much they *are sacks, they are technically stomachs.
> btw, I don't eat gizzards, but do like liver.
*****
Last night (and I do mean night) several, um, more earnest/crazy
members of our local buying group gathered to dress some 100+
chickens. The birds had not been fed for 12 hours prior to
execution; their crops were empty but most of the gizzards were
stuffed with bedding shavings they'd nibbled on in their last hours.
If there's no grit to git, the gizzards won't contain any. A chicken
fed meal without access to stones won't have any.

And yes, it's easy to empty the gizzards of stuff, whatever the stuff
is. Probably stones are easier than sawdust though.

IMO gizzards are no better or worse than store bought tripe or maws
but they're cheaper especially when they come stuck into the whole
bird.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
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8a. Re: Slippery Elm bark
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2007 9:30 am ((PDT))

On Jul 19, 2007, at 3:48 AM, Cdandp2@aol.com wrote:

> I mix two capfuls (or tsp of powder) into about a half cup water
> with a
> little honey and bring it to boil until it's a syrupy consistency
> then dose 2
> tsps of that syrup 2-3 times a day and it works like a dream (my
> dog is 25
> lbs...dosing depends on weight). Hope this helps.
> Carol & Spencer

Just curious; why do you add the honey?

ginny and Tomo

All stunts performed without a net!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (7)
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8b. Re: Slippery Elm bark
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2007 11:25 am ((PDT))

>Just curious; why do you add the honey?

Hi,Ginny.I am guessing that adding honey will be either flavoring(elm taste bitter or something?Not sure) OR make the water to syrup consistency just like you make caramel with sugar and water although I do not know why it needs syruppy consistency though.

Well, Palette did poo at 1pm today,it was solid but half inch about was wet,color was brownish yellowish poo.

It just needed light wipe for butthole with paper towel but it was not messing fur.It considered ok poo I guess.

Today,I fed lamb tongue with chicken and out of the combo meal,I fed just 1 oz of Lamb tongue.I know that any animal's tongue is fattier than other boneless meat except shank maybe? But,she seems not being able to handle that little once of lamb tongue/lamb as much as she can for other meat.

I try again the same tomorrow and,see if it gets same result.

maybe,the result will be different if I try again months later but,so far,not very bad with combo but not as good either compare to other meat meal.

yassy

---------------------------------
Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows.
Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (7)
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9a. Re: Question: 8 week old puppy (Sambuca) need advice on next step
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2007 9:34 am ((PDT))

ginny wilken <gwilken@...> wrote:
> I'm sorry to take up bandwidth with this, but I think maybe someone
> should point out that gizzards are perfectly fine muscle meat. This
> is far from "no nutritional value". They are not glands or organs,
> really, so don't have any of those "special" features, but they are
> still fine food, along with the rest of the darn chicken, from time
> to time.
*****
I don't see this as using up bandwidth.

Gizzards are not useless body parts, similarly they are not heroic body
parts. But they are body parts and one hardly has to go out of one's
way to acquire them. It would be silly not to feed them, under those
circumstances.

Chris O(

Messages in this topic (5)
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________________________________________________________________________

10a. Pancreatitis
Posted by: "therawretreat" therawretreat@mac.com therawretreat
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2007 9:39 am ((PDT))

***MODERATOR'S NOTE: SIGN YOUR MESSAGES PLEASE.***

I've been reading along off and on for about a month...

We have two Tibetian Terriers. We fed them a raw diet for about two years, stopping about
two years ago.

One of our dogs pulled a pound of raw butter off the counter, and they devoured the
whole thing. One dog got diarrhea - just what I would expect - but the other went into
pancreatic shock.

We took him to the clinic where they gave him lots of tests - of course - and then put him
on fluids for a day. They gave us some pills to manage the pain and for some other now
forgotten things.

Ever since that incident, he has been VERY sensitive to fat. Feeding him raw meat
produced and produces severe diarrhea. We went back to the kibble diet with occasional
raw meat.

He has since developed Lupus and a low thyroid condition.

I'm a raw vegan. I get totally understand that he needs to be eating a raw diet.

What I haven't been able to get past is the diarrhea. If it were a human, I'd say they were
getting the nutrition they need, so the body has started to eliminate it's toxic load. I'd say
that this unpleasant situation will pass. And stay close to the toilet!

The only strategy I can come up with is to transition very slowly.

Has anyone else out there experienced anything similar? And navigated through it
successfully?

Messages in this topic (14)
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11a. Re: Dogs normally gain weight after being on raw diet a while and lo
Posted by: "Sonja" ladyver@sbcglobal.net lonepalm77
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2007 9:42 am ((PDT))

Laurie,

I'm glad you mentioned that others had noticed that their dogs "lost" weight only to find out they've gained. Our lab is (was) 55 lbs and can't stand to lose a pound (we keep her lean). My husband became concerned because she appeared to be losing weight, so he took her to the vet to weigh her and she came up at 58 pounds! She still looks too lean, so we'll be putting a little more weight on her until she looks normal to us.

Sonja

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (8)
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11b. Re: Dogs normally gain weight after being on raw diet a while and lo
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2007 11:25 am ((PDT))

>Just a thought--scales are different and can be "off."

Hi,Laurie. Well,I did not think about it until you say that to me. we have digital scale at home for us to weigh ourselves so,I can check it again when my husband is around because I can simply deduct my husband's weight from combo weight.and yes,las time when we were there for microtipping,months ago,maybe March or April this year,she weighed 30lb and was told she is bit overweight.

If it was again the same weight;34lb with home scale then,I should reduce feeding amount?

I thought about maybe just like humans,dog can be thick bone dogs and actually what I see in her could be fine.

As long as I see tuck in tummy and nice waist and not to wabbly around rib area,do you consider ok looking?? Do you believe what you see or do you use scale number as guide more than looking?

If she got puffy big belly dog with lots of zingle around skin,then,I definitely worry and if she got bony looking,then,I would worry too but since right now,she looks ok to me but scale tells me (at least vet office one) she gained 4 lbs,then, if the number going up,I thought i should do something.

Just some thinking..

thanks

yassy

---------------------------------
Got a little couch potato?
Check out fun summer activities for kids.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (8)
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12a. soft stools
Posted by: "kovs74" superflydaddyo@hotmail.com kovs74
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2007 9:44 am ((PDT))

Hi my 8 week old puppy has been on raw chicken for about 5 days now
and she still has soft stools. I've tried smaller meals 3 times a day
and I've also tried larger meals ie whole thigh with back attatched.
Maybe I'm not giving it enough time but I'm concerned she isnt
absorbing any nutrients. Am I over reacting? How much weight do puppys
gain on average?
Thank you
Jamie

Messages in this topic (2)
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12b. Re: soft stools
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2007 11:25 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "kovs74" <superflydaddyo@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi my 8 week old puppy has been on raw chicken for about 5 days
now
> and she still has soft stools.

Try feeding less and remove the skin and fat. I always suggest
feeding nothing but chicken backs the first week of raw and rarely
have any dogs I've helped had any problems. At that age, 3 meals a
day is recommended. I would also lower the overall volume of food.

As to puppy weight gain, it depends mostly on the breed. Great Dane
puppies often weigh 90lbs at 9 months of age. Most dogs don't reach
that in a lifetime.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (2)
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________________________________________________________________________

13a. cat gaining weight since i switched from rabbit to chicken
Posted by: "purvisp" purvisp@yahoo.com purvisp
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2007 9:46 am ((PDT))

whoa! my bengal cat is gaining tons of weight. it seems to have
occurred since I switched him from rabbit to chicken. is chicken much
more caloric than rabbit?

Patricia

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________

13b. Re: cat gaining weight since i switched from rabbit to chicken
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2007 10:29 am ((PDT))

"purvisp" <purvisp@...> wrote:
>
> whoa! my bengal cat is gaining tons of weight. it seems to have
> occurred since I switched him from rabbit to chicken. is chicken
much
> more caloric than rabbit?
*****
Rabbit is generally leaner than chicken, depending of course of what
chicken parts you are feeding and whatever else is on the menu.
Chris o

Messages in this topic (2)
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________________________________________________________________________

14a. Re: Sterilizing Crate
Posted by: "Laura Atkinson" llatkinson@gmail.com lauraatkinson2002
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2007 10:20 am ((PDT))

After a particularly messy/smelly meal, a spritz with white vinegar
and a swipe with a clean cloth may be useful.

But, for the most part, I let the dogs do their own KP. I frequently
go looking for a dog (usually Frosty) and find that she's busy
cleaning crates.

--
Laura A
Kaos Siberians http://www.kaossiberians.com

Messages in this topic (5)
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________________________________________________________________________

15a. where do i feed the dogs
Posted by: "maradethc" maradethc@yahoo.com maradethc
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2007 10:25 am ((PDT))

***MODERATOR'S NOTE: SIGN YOUR MESSAGES.***

Hi I have a question? Where do you feed your dogs the raw food. Its
making a big mess on the porch.
And one of my dogs wont eat the raw chicken...what do you think i
should do. my other 2 dogs love it
thanks

Messages in this topic (3)
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15b. Re: where do i feed the dogs
Posted by: "mwood8402" mwood8402@hotmail.com mwood8402
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2007 10:50 am ((PDT))

I feed mine in the kitchen on a piece of an old vinyl table cover. I
like it because it's really easy to clean.

If your dog just doesn't like chicken, you don't have to make him eat
it. Does he like other meats? How long have you been feeding raw?

-Melissa W

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "maradethc" <maradethc@...> wrote:
> Hi I have a question? Where do you feed your dogs the raw food. And
one of my dogs wont eat the raw chicken...what do you think i
> should do. my other 2 dogs love it
> thanks
>

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

15c. Re: where do i feed the dogs
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2007 11:25 am ((PDT))

> Where do you feed your dogs the raw food.

Hi.I know some people feed inside the crate,some feed outside,some inside the house with towel on the floor.

Personally,I chose kitchen;non carpet area,and I place water resistance shower curtain 70"x72" on floor,and since the kitchen is next to living room,I section off the area with straightened puppy pen panels so that my dog not going to trott out with raw meat.

I let her sit on the curtain and I place the meat and she eat on it.Since she is Corgi,that curtain size is more than enough to bring meat to here and there and choose where she likes to eat (of course on the curtain area),and she sometimes eat meal "settle posture" or "super-man" posture and so relaxed to eat meal.

After the meal,I let her lick curtain to her content and,she is out from curtain area and come back to me so,I just wipe the meat taching area with 50 vinegar 50 water solution dabbing onto the paper towel.

Egg or organ meat like liver,I feed inside the bowl though.

It really not messy for me this way.

So,I just keep wiping that way a week and then,wash the shower curtain with washing machine and hang it to dry.

To let the dog get to eat meat,try quick searing and hot temp wil bring more smell so,it is more likely dog wants to eat it.

Then,less and less you sear the meat and some point time,you get to feed raw meat.

Maybe bland flavor with different texture of meat could get the dog off so,it should help.

If not searing,then,you can put the meat in zip bag and place it into warm water and let the meat temp up.warming can also help,I hear.

If those did not help,you can quick sear with some flavoring like tiny bit of garlic powder,or sear with butter or something.Flavoring can help too.

Or,you offer the same thing till the dog get to eat and if the dog not to eat it,let them be hungry and some point time,the dog get to eat.

Hope it helps.

you can find this topic in past postings too.It has been on this list now and then.

yassy

---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
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16a. Re: adding new meats to diet
Posted by: "Katie" kcrockett@mac.com kcrockettla7
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2007 11:35 am ((PDT))

Thanks, Andrea.

I'm finding that when I give Tonka (golden) a lamb shank, he eats most of the bone - he eats
the thicker part. The thinner part of the post usually gets stolen by my little schipperke
foster,who will chew on it for a little whil, until I take it away. It seems to ahve sharp edges
(which is why I take it away).

Katie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Andrea" <poketmouse45@...> wrote:

>
> As for lamb shanks, my boys eat every bit of a lamb. The bones are quite edible for even
> medium sized dogs. The only time I avoid lamb bones is if they have been cut into sharp
> little chop sized pieces.

Messages in this topic (7)
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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11824

There are 6 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Question: 8 week old puppy (Sambuca) need advice on next step
From: Lisa Hope

2a. Re: Adequate variety?
From: diannem200400
2b. Re: Adequate variety?
From: Giselle

3a. Re: Question - to fast or not to fast? what is the answer...
From: Laurie Swanson

4a. Re: Starved Stray Food Suggestions
From: woofwoofgrrl

5a. Re: Slippery Elm bark
From: Cdandp2@aol.com

Messages
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1a. Re: Question: 8 week old puppy (Sambuca) need advice on next step
Posted by: "Lisa Hope" GreyhopeWeis@hotmail.com greyhope_weimaraners
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:03 am ((PDT))

>*** I would feed a puppy that young at least 3 times a day, or at
>least leave food available for a couple of hours at each twice daily
>feeding.
>

I only ever feed my pups twice a day, but make sure the pup has his/her fill
at those feed times, lots of variety and nothing too bony or at least add
meat as well.

Here's an example of my feeding regime for an 8 week old weimaraner pup :

Morning meal :

Chicken Back + meat (Beef, Turkey, lamb - chunks or minced), you can add
fish or an egg every other day.

Evening meal :

Chicken pieces 1/4s, 1/2s etc or Pork chest ribs or a piece of lamb breast
plus a chicken thigh etc.

I don't feed pups that much organ meat, basically whatever is left in the
chicken back or I might add a chicken heart or small piece of liver -
increasing organ meat at around 4 mths of age.

Lisa
Greyhope Weis - Aust
http://www.users.bigpond.com/greyhopeweis
GreyhopeWeis@bigpond.com

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Messages in this topic (4)
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2a. Re: Adequate variety?
Posted by: "diannem200400" diannem200400@yahoo.com diannem200400
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:03 am ((PDT))

Thanks, Bill. They do get liver and occasionally beef kidney. And
fish oil every day. I'm still wondering if only 2 protein sources,
beef and pork, are enough to be nutritionally complete.

Dianne---
In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "carnesbill" <carnesw@...> wrote:

> Liver and other organs. For nutritional purposes, heart is not an
> organ but a muscle, as is tongue. Kidneys are probably the 2nd best
> organ.

Messages in this topic (4)
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2b. Re: Adequate variety?
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:16 am ((PDT))

Hi, Dianne!
I don't breed, but a couple of suggestions of items I've found
at the supermarket for easy variety;
What about turkey? Rabbit? Fish? Even, maybe, canned?
Spleen? Chicken or duck feet?
Was the chicken enhanced or injected with a salt/flavor solution??
Maybe you could try some without.
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

>
> My dogs have been raw fed for 2 months now and I LOVE it. The dogs
> think it's okay, too. But, the refrain "whole prey" keeps running
> through my head. I gather that it is important to feed as much of a
> whole animal, in terms of variety of parts, as possible.
<snip>
> seem like much variety to me. Also, I wonder if there is enough
> edible bone in this "menu plan." I will be breeding my girl pretty
> soon and want to be sure her nutrition is up to snuff. BTW, I gave
> up on chicken..one dog is allergic to poultry, one throws up EVERY
> time he eats it and will not reconsume it, and the other two don't
> like it but will eat it if they're really hungry. Didn't seem worth
> the pain.
>
> Do you long-time raw feeders consider this diet adequate over the
> long haul, especially for a bred bitch? If not, what would be most
> important to add? Thanks for any advice!
>
> Dianne M.
>

Messages in this topic (4)
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3a. Re: Question - to fast or not to fast? what is the answer...
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:04 am ((PDT))

Just an additional thought: They may not pass up easy/free food, but
since they're designed to hunt big game, and a hunt would take a lot of
energy and probably provide them with a big meal, they may not be
hungry enough to work hard for food again soon. They're not (nor is
any species, I believe) designed to not have to expend energy for food.

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "carnesbill" <carnesw@...> wrote:

> I agree that probably in the wild that wolves or wild dogs will not
> eat avery day but I don't think it's by choice. I can't see a wild
> carnivore passing by food just because he ate yesterday. I think
> they eat as much as they can when they can find it.

Messages in this topic (5)
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4a. Re: Starved Stray Food Suggestions
Posted by: "woofwoofgrrl" cmc4lists1@gastrounit.com woofwoofgrrl
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2007 5:12 am ((PDT))

I was hoping you'd let us know how the kitty is doing....

Here's hoping the kitty is getting healthier by the day!

Christine

Messages in this topic (13)
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5a. Re: Slippery Elm bark
Posted by: "Cdandp2@aol.com" Cdandp2@aol.com cdandp
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2007 5:15 am ((PDT))

I mix two capfuls (or tsp of powder) into about a half cup water with a
little honey and bring it to boil until it's a syrupy consistency then dose 2
tsps of that syrup 2-3 times a day and it works like a dream (my dog is 25
lbs...dosing depends on weight). Hope this helps.
Carol & Spencer

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Messages in this topic (5)
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