[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12335

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Anal Glands
From: Meg Sorhus

2a. Re: High Volume Treats
From: costrowski75
2b. Re: High Volume Treats
From: jennifer_hell
2c. Re: High Volume Treats
From: jennifer_hell
2d. Re: High Volume Treats
From: marclre

3a. Re: Need to wash the scraps from butcher?
From: costrowski75
3b. Re: Need to wash the scraps from butcher?
From: Tina Berry
3c. Re: Need to wash the scraps from butcher?
From: Vom Eishenblick Rottweilers
3d. Re: Need to wash the scraps from butcher?
From: mariola9000
3e. Re: Need to wash the scraps from butcher?
From: merril Woolf

4a. Re: Mixing veggies with meat
From: costrowski75
4b. Re: Mixing veggies with meat
From: marclre
4c. Re: Mixing veggies with meat
From: Yasuko herron

5a. Re: Starving to death...
From: jackie
5b. Re: Starving to death...
From: Tina Berry
5c. Re: Starving to death...
From: mmc2315
5d. Re: Starving to death...
From: costrowski75
5e. Re: Starving to death...
From: Tina Berry
5f. Re: Starving to death...
From: katkellm
5g. Re: Starving to death...
From: Karen Swanay

6a. ADMIN/Re: High Volume Treats
From: costrowski75

7a. Re: Bad Pork??
From: Tracy

8a. Re: Does anyone have greyhounds that they feed raw?
From: marjo roth

9a. How much meat in a supermarket would be seasoned?
From: quiltingtuppy
9b. Re: How much meat in a supermarket would be seasoned?
From: Yasuko herron

Messages
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1a. Re: Anal Glands
Posted by: "Meg Sorhus" megsorhus@hotmail.com megasorhus
Date: Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:15 am ((PST))

I am new on this list, but would like to add my 2 cents to this one.

I used to be a dog groomer for many years and have cleaned hundreds of anal glands. What I have noticed is that overweight dogs, dogs on kibble diets, or dogs with old injuries in that area, tend to be the dogs to have anal gland problems. Every dog that I have ever cleaned who has been fed raw has either very little gland secretions or a thin liquidy consistency (normal). Maybe it is coincidence, maybe not. I have also cleaned many dogs with normal glands that have been fed kibble, so it is not like they have to be raw fed to have good glands.

Having more stool is not going to help the dog secrete his/her glands better. A dog with the proper anal gland fluid can secrete it just fine on their own - and not necessarily only when pooping. The problem comes when the fluid is thick, grainy, or chunky - not normal!! It should be some shade of brownish and smooth and watery in texture. A slight graininess is not a real problem, but if it is thick or whitish your dog is having problems.

When I switched my dogs to raw I noticed a defiant change in the 'quality' of their anal gland secretions. I do clean them periodically when I bath them so have been able to see the changes over the years. Some dogs naturally produce more, some less. But on each of my dogs the texture and quantity have changed for the better on a raw diet (keep in mind that these dogs did not have problems before either). My mother raises Welsh Springers and over the years I have cleaned the glands on her dogs too. When she switched to raw the same thing happened to her dogs - better fluid with less volume.

It is my humble opinion that Jasper is going to do much better with his glands once he is on a raw diet. Maybe not, but from what my personal expense says he is going to thank you.

Meg

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Messages in this topic (10)
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2a. Re: High Volume Treats
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:26 am ((PST))

Cdandp2@... wrote:
>
> Bill Jack?? Please would you check the ingredients on the box? I
thought
> they were loaded with grains and sugars? Wouldn't that kind of
defeat the
> notion of the prey model?
*****
Since treats by definition are special (otherwise they would not be
treats) anything can be a treat if it does no harm and the dog vaues
it. So crappy stuff can be treats in small doses. A single BilJack
cracker isn't likely to break the dog, although some dogs cannnot do
any grain at all and we should always respect that sensitivity.

But to use grain-based products regularly? I say no way. Especially
not in a food-based training program. There are better treats, raw
and prepared.

Raw treats can be discussed on this list; prepared treats should be
discussed on RawChat.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (14)
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2b. Re: High Volume Treats
Posted by: "jennifer_hell" jenniferhell@web.de jennifer_hell
Date: Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:11 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "carnesbill" <carnesw@...> wrote:

> Yes they are and no it doesn't. Even for high volume trainers,
> training treats make up only a very small amount of the diet. That
> small amount doesn't matter.

I have to disagree with this. If you clicker train, and work for
example daily on everyday situations and on counterconditioning, you
can go through more than half of the daily amount easily.

Jennifer

Messages in this topic (14)
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2c. Re: High Volume Treats
Posted by: "jennifer_hell" jenniferhell@web.de jennifer_hell
Date: Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:11 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Treulich, Sarah" <sarah@...> wrote:
>
> Hello. I just switched to raw feeding and I'm wondering about what to
> use for treats.
Dehydrated lung, or beef meat cut into very small pieces, and dried a
little so that it's not too messy.

Jennifer

Messages in this topic (14)
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2d. Re: High Volume Treats
Posted by: "marclre" marclre@aol.com marclre
Date: Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:12 am ((PST))

aw treats can be discussed on this list; prepared treats should be discussed on RawChat.

***Mostly a quick scratch under the chin & kind word is reward enough...hmmm...wonder if
they counts as raw treats ;) ***

Messages in this topic (14)
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3a. Re: Need to wash the scraps from butcher?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:46 am ((PST))

Cdandp2@... wrote:>
> I add some apple cider vinegar or hygrogen peroxide to the "bath"
water then
> rinse well if the meat is "iffy."
*****
What "bath" water? You bathe your dogs' food? Why? I think if you
are bathing your dogs' food (which is just silly), you need not do
more to the bathwater. Your dogs do not need their meat sanitized for
their protection.

I just attended a raw feeding workshop
> and the woman there was adamant about not offering "off" meats,
especially to
> compromised (elderly, sick, allergy-prone, etc) dogs. Seems this
group takes
> a different stand on that?
*****
I certainly do. It is, I believe, ill-advised to judge our dogs'
abilities on our human limitations and expectations. Who are we to
say what off meat is for a carnivore with an entirely different
digestive system than ours?

What about the elderly, the sick? This list has always recommended
feeding the to aged and the impaired food appropriate for the
individual dog. If the circumstance indicates fresh meat, then feed
fresh meat. If not, don't get all bent out of shape because the meat
smells icky. (Many vegetarians think ALL meat smells icky.)

"Allergy-prone" means little. I think what the woman was saying is
any dog with a compromised immune system should not be feed "off"
meat. Well, guess what? Most of our dogs HAVE compromised immune
systems, whether the result is manisfested through "allergies" or
itchy skin or digestive problems or fatty tumors or seizures or
cancer.

Since many many people feed "off meats" with great success to dogs
whose immune systems are challenged by whatever, I'd say the woman's
sweeping dismissal of "off" meat is based less on reality and more on
her own limitations and expectations.

Besides, who wants to pay good money to hear someone recommend
feeding "off" meat? You pay good money, you want to hear
about "good" food.

Make your own choice of course. But when I can get shot-up vension
virtually free and when I can get leg o' lamb for .99/lb because
it's "off" and when I can get lovely pork roasts for .50/lb because
they smell "funny", I surely do. And my dogs certainly haven't had
to bear the brunt of poor choices.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (10)
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3b. Re: Need to wash the scraps from butcher?
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:31 am ((PST))

I never wash the venison we get from our butcher, and I've found dead mice
in the cans, dirt, hair, but it's fairly clean. Dogs don't care, eat it
before and after it's been frozen for years - no problems.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

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Messages in this topic (10)
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3c. Re: Need to wash the scraps from butcher?
Posted by: "Vom Eishenblick Rottweilers" vomeishenblick@hotmail.com vomeishenblick
Date: Fri Nov 30, 2007 10:02 am ((PST))

there is no need to "wash or bath" meat. dogs have naturally stong
stomach acids. bad meat will not bother them. my dogs have eaten
tripe and meat that they have burried in the yard weeks after.
so..... and they don't get sick from it.
Brenda Dumesnil
Vom Eishenblick Rottweilers
www.geocities.com/vomeishenblick

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "mariola9000" <mariola9000@...>
wrote:
>
> I picked up some venison scraps from a butcher today and he told
me to
> wash the meat because it is not fresh (the deer were not local -
from
> Colorado, and we live in California) and dirty. BTW - I told the
> butcher I wanted the sraps for the dog, but did not say anything
about
> raw.
> What do you think? Should I wash it before freezing like he
suggested,
> and if yes - in what? Plain warm water?
>
> I will be going over to his store for more and fresher meat next
week,
> also some boar scraps.
>
> What else should I ask for? I think I could convince this guy to
give
> me/sell more stuff. If I ask for meaty bones of a goat for example
> (the goat leg quarters are $3.29/lb), what would be a reasonable
> amount to pay for those? I got scraps for free, but I guess people
are
> usually paying for meaty bones, right?.
>
> I never fed goat yet. Are goat bones soft? Which ones are edible?
>
> He asked if I wanted the deer bones bones, but those were devoid of
> any meat, so I declined. I already had bare naked bones from my
> previous "deer hunt" and that was disappointing.
>
> Mariola
>

Messages in this topic (10)
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3d. Re: Need to wash the scraps from butcher?
Posted by: "mariola9000" mariola9000@yahoo.com mariola9000
Date: Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:09 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Vom Eishenblick Rottweilers"
<vomeishenblick@...> wrote:
>
> there is no need to "wash or bath" meat. dogs have naturally stong
> stomach acids. bad meat will not bother them.

Thank you, EVERYONE who responded. I really value your opinions.

Mariola

Messages in this topic (10)
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3e. Re: Need to wash the scraps from butcher?
Posted by: "merril Woolf" merril@kentfieldwhippets.com whippetsrus2002
Date: Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:30 pm ((PST))

> there is no need to "wash or bath" meat. dogs have naturally stong
> stomach acids. bad meat will not bother them. my dogs have eaten
> tripe and meat that they have burried in the yard weeks after.
> so..... and they don't get sick from it.
> Brenda Dumesnil
> Vom Eishenblick Rottweilers
> www.geocities.com/vomeishenblick

We butchered 2 cows back in August of this year. We use all of the cow except the
intestines and hide which we bury in our back forty in a huge pit. We cover it with dirt and
it eventually breaks down.

Well, one of our dogs has dug a hole under the fence recently and has dug up the remains
of the August butchered cows in the back pasture.
We mend the hole and she managed to dig under again in another spot. She's been doing
this for 2 weeks now and we are just trying to keep on top of her and her digging.
She had gained so much weight in the 2 weeks that she's been eating 'buried hide and
intestines' that I've had to stop feeding her regular food.

Has she been sick? Heck no! None of my dogs get sick from anything but if something
was to make them sick, you'd think this would be one of them. Instead, she's fat as a
tick!! One day she brought some of her diggings back into the yard for the rest to enjoy.
They did!

Anyway, my point being that we often feed smelly meat in all forms and we even have
certain wayward dogs who dig up long buried treasures. They just thrive...

Merril

Messages in this topic (10)
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4a. Re: Mixing veggies with meat
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:07 am ((PST))

"Evie" <archie.willow@...> wrote:
>> Getting off topic here; but felt I needed to comment. Carrots don't
> contain sugar. I'm diabetic and they don't contain any carbohydrates
> to be counted into my diet. HTH.
*****
Yeah they do. At the very least root vegetables are the food supply for
the rest of the plant and the food is starch with is sugar. It may not
enough to count in your diet but that doesn't mean it's not there. For
a dog with itchy skin and gunky ears, it may well count.

From the USDA Nutrient Database
http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/

100g raw carrot:
9.58g carbs
4.74g sugar
3.59g sucrose
.59g glucose
.55g fructose
1.43g starch

100g raw green beans:
7.13g carbs
1.4g sugar

100g beef frank:
4.06g carbs
3.39g sugar
2.82g dextrose
1.32g starch

100g raw beef heart:
.14g carbs
0.0g sugar
Chris O

Messages in this topic (9)
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4b. Re: Mixing veggies with meat
Posted by: "marclre" marclre@aol.com marclre
Date: Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:11 am ((PST))

"Carrots don't contain sugar. I'm diabetic and they don't contain any carbohydrates to be
counted into my diet."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrot

http://www.foodreference.com/html/artcarrots.html

http://www.carrotmuseum.co.uk/

Marie-Claire

Messages in this topic (9)
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4c. Re: Mixing veggies with meat
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Fri Nov 30, 2007 2:32 pm ((PST))

Hi,Evi.Here is complete list of nutrient fact of carrot. You can see that carrots are good for what nutrient andbad for waht nutrient by reading this.

http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c20cR.html

Carrots being 89% carb,and most calorie is from sugar in carrot itself.

yassy

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Messages in this topic (9)
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5a. Re: Starving to death...
Posted by: "jackie" jackiehale1@bellsouth.net jackieoscar2000
Date: Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:12 am ((PST))

Ok, now I really feel horrible after some of the responses. Am I
supposed to be feeding my dogs for satisfaction or for good health? I
want my dogs to be happy, which they are, except for being hungry.
Maybe I will try to feed 1 meal a day instead of breaking it into 2
meals and see if that helps.
Jackie

Messages in this topic (17)
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5b. Re: Starving to death...
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:31 am ((PST))

"Am I supposed to be feeding my dogs for satisfaction or for good health? I
want my dogs to be happy, which they are, except for being hungry. "

For good health.... and for the record, my 4 are ALWAYS starving.... and
their ribs barely show thru their fur and feel like nice washboards... hubby
over fed them a few days ago so I had to cut them back a little for a few
days. But mine are always hungry and they look great, they are not
starving. One time Ruger got into a bag of meat and ate about 5 lbs - a few
hours later he threw up about 2-3 lbs of it. Mine all get fed once a day,
1.5 lbs each approx. and they vary in weight from 85-97 lbs.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

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5c. Re: Starving to death...
Posted by: "mmc2315" m.chelap@sbcglobal.net mmc2315
Date: Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:31 am ((PST))

Hi Jackie,

Our dog is only 10# and we are feeding once a day. It has been working out well.

Good luck!

Michelle

Messages in this topic (17)
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5d. Re: Starving to death...
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:31 am ((PST))

"jackie" <jackiehale1@...> wrote:
> Am I
> supposed to be feeding my dogs for satisfaction or for good health?
*****
You are supposed to do both. Good health is not just about hitting the
nutrients--heck, SD does that; any AAFCO approved dogfood does that.

Good health includes mental health. Physical, dental, mental. All
three can be addressed by feeding food that nourishes, cleans,
satisfies. The contentment that comes from a full belly--the knowledge
however feral that there is no need to keep hunting--is certainly part
of mental health. Garbage scavenging and counter surfing are hunting
behaviors, reinforced of course by success. My guess is these
behaviors will diminish as your dogs come to look forward to more
engaging meals. OTOH, dogs are opportunists, so if you continue to
leave food where it can be reached, your dogs are not going to see
reason to stop trying.

"Hungry" is as much mental as it is physical.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (17)
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5e. Re: Starving to death...
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Fri Nov 30, 2007 10:02 am ((PST))

"Garbage scavenging and counter surfing are hunting behaviors, reinforced of
course by success. My guess is these behaviors will diminish as your dogs
come to look forward to more engaging meals."

I wish... Chris tell this to my 85lb female who is the family garbage
digger, counter surfer, also eats the most raw & bones... never full.....
and I even had her on the little heavy side and she STILL gets in the
garbage and counter surfs - granted their meals are not challenging... 2 lbs
of scraps all tho large don't require too much muscle to eat.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (17)
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5f. Re: Starving to death...
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Fri Nov 30, 2007 10:27 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "jackie" <jackiehale1@...> wrote:
>
> Ok, now I really feel horrible after some of the responses. Am I
> supposed to be feeding my dogs for satisfaction or for good health?

Hi Jackie,
You shouldn't feel bad about anything. You love your dogs enough to
step outside the box and feed a raw diet. Now, you are at a point in
the learning curve where you will decide what is best for your dogs
next. Initially, i fed raw twice a day because i fed kibble twice a
day. After about a month, i realized that by feeding twice a day i
couldn't feed large enough hunks of food to let my dogs really rip and
tear and clean their teeth, so i dropped down to once a day. Once i
started learning even more about raw feeding, i learned way more about
the anatomical and physiological design of my dogs. As with many
things we have been taught to be correct by pet food companies and
preached by vets with little nutritional training, i learned that it
is not true that a dog has to eat twice or even once a day to be
healthy. I learned that if it was best for my dog to be fed wolf food,
it must be to the dog's advantage to eat the same way as a wolf. A
wolf eats all it can when it can. That's how Mother Nature made them.
We can apply people comforts to our dogs, like eating multiple little
meals, but those ideas only make us feel better, they don't really
serve the best interests of the dog. Now, i feed random sized meals
at irregular intervals. I think that this is one of the ways that you
can feed a dog to both good health-physical- and satisfaction-mental
health. KathyM

Messages in this topic (17)
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5g. Re: Starving to death...
Posted by: "Karen Swanay" luvbullbreeds@gmail.com kswanay1111
Date: Fri Nov 30, 2007 10:35 am ((PST))

There is a good reason to feed things like whole deer heads. Not only can
the dog eat all it wants, the act of eating is tiring as well. And there
are people that gorge and fast as regular habits. Only feeding every third
day but feeding a lot so the dog is very full and digests for days. A more
wild feeding pattern.

Karen

>
>

--
"Family isn't about whose blood you have. It's about who you care about."

LOI 1/26/07
PA 3/22/07
DTC 8/10/07
LID 8/23/07
LOA 11/9/07
TA ?
Disclaimer: Any errors in spelling, tact, or fact are transmission errors.

~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (17)
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6a. ADMIN/Re: High Volume Treats
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:16 am ((PST))

I think this topic has worn out its welcome. Further discussion along
these lines can be continued on RawChat or elsewhere. More responses
to this subject line will be rejected.
Thanks.
Chris O
Moderation Team

Messages in this topic (14)
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7a. Re: Bad Pork??
Posted by: "Tracy" fireynyredhead@yahoo.com fireynyredhead
Date: Fri Nov 30, 2007 10:02 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "carnesbill" <carnesw@...> wrote:
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Tracy" <fireynyredhead@>
> wrote:
> >
> > For dogs is there such a thing as Bad Pork? How long does pork
> last > in the fridge before it becomes unhealthy for the dogs?
>
> I suspect a lot longer than you would want to keep in in the fridge.

The reason I asked is because I forgot about some sliced pig hocks
and skin that I had sitting in the bottom drawer of my fridge and was
wondering if I should trash it or just toss it in the yard. I have
to others with very strong stomachs (basically garbage hounds that
can eat anything w/o ill effects) and have contemplated giving it to
them but wasn't sure if it had potential health issues.

> > I know that they
> > love really ripe beef, but still being rather new to this, I was
> > wondering if it is ok to feed pork that is no longer fit for
human
> > comsumption?
>
> Yes, much longer.
>
> Bill Carnes
> http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm
>
> Feeding Raw since October 2002
>
> "Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
> Dr. Tom Lonsdale
>

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8a. Re: Does anyone have greyhounds that they feed raw?
Posted by: "marjo roth" greytbizz@yahoo.com greytbizz
Date: Fri Nov 30, 2007 10:02 am ((PST))

We started our two rescued (special needs) greyhounds,
Dreamer (6 yo with epilepsy and/or a possible brain
tumour and broken hocks) and Grace (8 yo with
hypothyroidism and eye issues (blue around iris) - on
Acular twice a day) on raw approximately 11 or 12
weeks ago.

There have been no problems that I can actually
associate with the raw food. Just by coincidence they
both got UTIs shortly after starting but these seem
clear now (after antibiotics).

They are happy goodlooking hounds who look forward to
their meals.

We are still researching the best way to feed and I am
awaiting the arrival of Susan Johnson's book because I
suspect we may be feeding too many RMBs (turkey
necks). Muscle meat seems to be a challenge for us as
it is more expensive than RMBs and we are still not
sure what cuts to give other than ground meat which
apparently does not give enough of a workout so to
speak.

We would never return to kibble again and enjoy the
challenge of learning about this new way of feeding.

Good luck!

Melanie & Marjo
Greyhounds in Need of Adoption Inc (Greater Toronto
Area - Canada)
saveagrey.com

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9a. How much meat in a supermarket would be seasoned?
Posted by: "quiltingtuppy" mamacass@iprimus.com.au quiltingtuppy
Date: Fri Nov 30, 2007 2:32 pm ((PST))

Hi All,

Just wondering, apart from the labelled as 'seasoned' human grade meat cuts in a
supermarket, how much of the cuts of meats would be enhanced with salt or anything else?
Are they obliged to label that?
I'm in Australia but your answers would probably be relevant wherever you live?
Cheers
Stephanie

Messages in this topic (2)
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9b. Re: How much meat in a supermarket would be seasoned?
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Fri Nov 30, 2007 2:52 pm ((PST))

>Are they obliged to label that?

Hi,steph.I am not sure about label rules,but if you read label very well,it says something like "enhanced with solution","Retained up to xx% of water","Contain X % of salt solution" etc
The letters are pretty small but I be careful when buying and read it good.

Recently,I got Turkey with good price and,when I looked frozen Turkey,it said it is enhanced with solution but when I looked at same brand's Fresh Turkey,it just contained water no solution or enhance at all.So,you can look both frozen and non frozen item and sometimes you find different way to sell to customers.

In case of seasoned products,often times, marinated pork etc is quite easy to tell from package's view.

I find that if you get chicken breast,most products are enhanced with broth to make it juicier and tender while if you look whole poultry,you can get one without such treatment easier ; can get bird without solution or broth enhancement.

yassy

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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12334

There are 12 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Seasoned pork
From: Morledzep@aol.com

2a. Re: Bad Pork??
From: Morledzep@aol.com

3a. Dinky update
From: Cathy Richmond
3b. Re: Dinky update
From: Giselle

4a. Re: High Volume Treats
From: Cdandp2@aol.com
4b. Re: High Volume Treats
From: katkellm
4c. Re: High Volume Treats
From: carnesbill
4d. Re: High Volume Treats
From: Laura Wimpey

5a. Re: Need to wash the scraps from butcher?
From: Cdandp2@aol.com
5b. Re: Need to wash the scraps from butcher?
From: katkellm
5c. Re: Need to wash the scraps from butcher?
From: carnesbill

6a. Re: Mixing veggies with meat
From: Evie

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Re: Seasoned pork
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Fri Nov 30, 2007 2:16 am ((PST))

In a message dated 11/29/2007 7:08:49 PM Pacific Standard Time,
mtinder@tinderco.com writes:

For stuff like this, are we wearing gloves? I've not so far but just
wonder how more experienced raw feeders "handle" it. I'm really
getting to be quite the cave woman, breaking up a carcass with my bare
hands. A good soap and water washing should do right? I don't bring
it into the kitchen so no worries there.

Mary,

i've never worn gloves for working with wolf chow. And i DO cut up the meat
(what little i actually do) in the kitchen.. just basic cleaning is more than
is necessary.. wash your hands, wipe the counters and sink with water and/or
vinegar.

no big deal.

And, when meat is stinky, or slimey i make my hubby feed the dogs..
Catherine R.

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Messages in this topic (9)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

2a. Re: Bad Pork??
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Fri Nov 30, 2007 2:16 am ((PST))

For dogs is there such a thing as Bad Pork? How long does pork last in the
fridge before it >becomes unhealthy for the dogs? I know that they love really
ripe beef, but still being >rather new to this, I was wondering if it is ok
to feed pork that is no longer fit for human >consumption?

Tracy,

my hubby's gauge to tell if the meat is ok to feed the dogs is, if he can
handle it and not toss his cookies it's safe for the dogs...

Catherine R.

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Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

3a. Dinky update
Posted by: "Cathy Richmond" batcathy@sbcglobal.net batcathy2002
Date: Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:19 am ((PST))

She asked to eat late last night-so I gave her ground with SE
followed with the Bifi and she seems better this am...have another
call to another vet also to see about bloodwork/testing....hopefully
we can get to the bottom of this soon. She is actually playing with
the rest of the gang.
May I have permission to post an album? It is easier to show her name
than to explain :-))))
As a side note- when i feed the chicken backs they always have
additional meat and I do take off fat & skin. I have a grocer here
who orders meat for me by the case so when i get backs i also order a
case of 1 lb turkey rolls which I divide with 8 dogs than give them a
chew.
He can get me the leg quaters,necks turkey ect....price varies from
$20-$40 for a 40 lb box.
Good News- my new girl had horrible skin, felt greasy & had an awful
odor coming from her pores...i kept her on what her breeder had her
on as we co-own her & she was addiment- tough- she has been raw over
a week & her skin improved in 48 hours. Last night I cuddeled her
without the urge to barf!! She's not sure how to hold it yet but is
figuring it out!! Thankyou again to everyone....I knew things were
just not right-just not sure where to turn.
Cathy & the Lesmars gang

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________

3b. Re: Dinky update
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Fri Nov 30, 2007 5:57 am ((PST))

Hi, Cathy!
KEWL!

I'd love to see pics of all your kiddies!

Not necessary to remove all the fat and skin for all the littles, just the
one(s) who have problems digesting it. Fat, bone, skin and all the parts
that make up a critter, as well as meat, is GOOD for all dogs. The diets of
the ones with problems we just have to tweak a little. Whole prey is our
model, and ultimate goal, so the more variety of parts and protein, the
better. Slowly and gradually introduced, of course. ^_^

Wonderful news about the improvement of your new little with the odor and
greasy skin problems. The co-owner will love her appearance, and will surely
take credit for breeding a healthy dog! You might want to get her tested for
hypothyroidism - those are classic signs. Thyroid replacement is cheap and
easy to dose, and is pretty much side effect free. (ime) Matter of fact,
there are lots of symptoms that can be attributed to hypothyroidism, you'll
be amazed. You'll want to get her blood work drawn by a vet and sent to Dr
Jean Dodds - she is 'The' go-to specialist in diagnosing hypothyroidism.
http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/diagnostic_testing.htm
http://www.itsfortheanimals.com/HEMOPET.HTM
http://www.itsfortheanimals.com/DODDS-RESUME.HTM
There's lots of great info on those sites, and this is Dr Dodds' site;
http://www.hemopet.com/

TC and keep us posted on their progress!
Giselle

On Nov 30, 2007 7:14 AM, Cathy Richmond <batcathy@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>
> She asked to eat late last night-so I gave her ground with SE
> followed with the Bifi and she seems better this am...have another
> call to another vet also to see about blood work/testing....hopefully
> we can get to the bottom of this soon. She is actually playing with
> the rest of the gang.
> <snip>
> Good News- my new girl had horrible skin, felt greasy & had an awful
> odor coming from her pores...i kept her on what her breeder had her
> on as we co-own her & she was adamant- tough- she has been raw over
> a week & her skin improved in 48 hours. Last night I cuddled her
> without the urge to barf!! She's not sure how to hold it yet but is
> figuring it out!! Thank you again to everyone....I knew things were
> just not right-just not sure where to turn.
> Cathy & the Lesmars gang
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

4a. Re: High Volume Treats
Posted by: "Cdandp2@aol.com" Cdandp2@aol.com cdandp
Date: Fri Nov 30, 2007 5:26 am ((PST))

Bill Jack?? Please would you check the ingredients on the box? I thought
they were loaded with grains and sugars? Wouldn't that kind of defeat the
notion of the prey model?

I'm still kind of new at this, so guidance would be appreciated.

Carol

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Messages in this topic (9)
________________________________________________________________________

4b. Re: High Volume Treats
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Fri Nov 30, 2007 6:33 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Cdandp2@... wrote:
>
> Bill Jack?? Please would you check the ingredients on the box?

Hi Carol,
Provided that a dog doesn't have an allergy or illness or some such
affliction where NONE is the word and provided that they don't take up
space in the "real" portion of food, i forget how many bites Bill got
to a treat, but it was lots, there is, imo, nothing wrong with a treat
of almost any kind be it dog, veggie, or fruit. JMO, KathyM

Messages in this topic (9)
________________________________________________________________________

4c. Re: High Volume Treats
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Fri Nov 30, 2007 6:40 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Cdandp2@... wrote:
>
> Bill Jack?? Please would you check the ingredients on the box?
> I thought they were loaded with grains and sugars? Wouldn't
> that kind of defeat the notion of the prey model?

Yes they are and no it doesn't. Even for high volume trainers,
training treats make up only a very small amount of the diet. That
small amount doesn't matter.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (9)
________________________________________________________________________

4d. Re: High Volume Treats
Posted by: "Laura Wimpey" laura.wimpey@yahoo.com laura.wimpey
Date: Fri Nov 30, 2007 6:40 am ((PST))

>I'm wondering about what to use for treats.

I'm not a do-it-yourself'er' in this department. If you are in that camp and don't mind paying for it - haretodaygonetomorrow has a good selection of dehydrated organs and dehydrated ground/non ground meats. They've got a dehydrated goat that my kids think is over the moon. Rabbit too. And tounges (sp)...livers...spleens...just about any raw meat dyhrated if you ask I bet.

but anything you can do yourself that doesn't have a lot of cost is always a little better

Laura W.

---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (9)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

5a. Re: Need to wash the scraps from butcher?
Posted by: "Cdandp2@aol.com" Cdandp2@aol.com cdandp
Date: Fri Nov 30, 2007 5:26 am ((PST))

I add some apple cider vinegar or hygrogen peroxide to the "bath" water then
rinse well if the meat is "iffy." I just attended a raw feeding workshop
and the woman there was adamant about not offering "off" meats, especially to
compromised (elderly, sick, allergy-prone, etc) dogs. Seems this group takes
a different stand on that? I'm kind of in-between at this point and still
learning.

Carol

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Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________

5b. Re: Need to wash the scraps from butcher?
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Fri Nov 30, 2007 6:40 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Cdandp2@... wrote:
> I just attended a raw feeding workshop
> and the woman there was adamant about not offering "off" meats,
especially to
> compromised (elderly, sick, allergy-prone, etc) dogs. Seems this
group takes
> a different stand on that?

Hi Carol,

Who sponsored the workshop? Never heard of one before, but there are
certainly tons of things that i never heard of. :) My opinion would be
that there is no such thing as "off" meats to a healthy dog. Off
meats is a human term, used to describe how people perceive the meat,
not a carnivore's term. People see the smell as awful, not the dog.
People think the meat looks gross, not the dog. What may pose a human
health risk factor poses no threat to the short, fast moving, acidic
digestive tract of a carnivore. Feeding meat to a dog that people
shouldn't eat falls into, i suppose, a know thy self thing. KathyM

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________

5c. Re: Need to wash the scraps from butcher?
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Fri Nov 30, 2007 6:40 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Cdandp2@... wrote:
>
> I add some apple cider vinegar or hygrogen peroxide to the
> "bath" water then rinse well if the meat is "iffy."

Dog's stomach juices are stronger than either of those and they take
care of the "bathing" much better anyway.

> I just attended a raw feeding workshop
> and the woman there was adamant about not offering "off"
> meats, especially to
> compromised (elderly, sick, allergy-prone, etc) dogs.

I MIGHT be a little more careful what I fed a dog who was both
elderly and sick but allergies have nothing to do with bacteria.

You, like many people, judge dogs on human standards. They live in
an entirely different world.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

6a. Re: Mixing veggies with meat
Posted by: "Evie" archie.willow@yahoo.co.uk archie.willow
Date: Fri Nov 30, 2007 6:54 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Yasuko herron
<sunshine_annamaria@...> wrote:
> Carrots mostly being sugar and this is one of those item that
diabetic dog cannot eat since most of nutrient is sugar.
> yassy
>

Getting off topic here; but felt I needed to comment. Carrots don't
contain sugar. I'm diabetic and they don't contain any carbohydrates
to be counted into my diet. HTH.

For what it's worth: I don't feed my dogs any veg, apart from the odd
bit that gets left over from the human dinners in the house perhaps
once in a blue moon. They don't need the veg. ;o)
Engaging hunks of meat containing bone are the way to go with a little
organ thrown in occasionally for good measure is how I like to do it.

Evie

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________
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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12333

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Seasoned pork
From: Mary Tinder

2a. Re: Starving to death...
From: jackie
2b. Re: Starving to death...
From: costrowski75
2c. Re: Starving to death...
From: costrowski75
2d. Maybe not starving, but probably hungry
From: mozookpr
2e. Re: Starving to death...
From: Monica A. Joy

3a. Re: Dinky
From: John and Jeni Blackmon
3b. Re: Dinky
From: costrowski75

4a. Salt needs with raw feeding
From: cleone4100
4b. Re: Salt needs with raw feeding
From: carnesbill

5a. Re: Meaty deer bone supply in Mont. Co. Md.
From: Sylvia Tetzlaff

6a. Re: Question about Live animal markets (sanitary?)
From: John and Jeni Blackmon
6b. Re: Question about Live animal markets (sanitary?)
From: carnesbill
6c. Re: Question about Live animal markets (sanitary?)
From: Elie

7. Re: new to group - Hello!
From: Michael Moore

8a. Re: Anal Glands
From: carnesbill
8b. Re: Anal Glands
From: paula.0666

9a. Re: High Volume Treats
From: carnesbill

10a. Re: Bad Pork??
From: carnesbill

11a. Re: what should i buy
From: costrowski75

12a. Re: Mixing veggies with meat
From: costrowski75

13a. will too much bone cause the runs?
From: costrowski75

14a. ADMIIN/Re: High Volume Treats
From: costrowski75

15.1. Re: Green Tripe
From: costrowski75

16a. Re: Need to wash the scraps from butcher?
From: costrowski75

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Re: Seasoned pork
Posted by: "Mary Tinder" mtinder@tinderco.com mmmaryt
Date: Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:08 pm ((PST))

I could not bring myself to use the one puffy bagged pork roast.
While I'm sure the dogs would have loved it I didn't want it to explode
in my face upon opening.

For stuff like this, are we wearing gloves? I've not so far but just
wonder how more experienced raw feeders "handle" it. I'm really
getting to be quite the cave woman, breaking up a carcass with my bare
hands. A good soap and water washing should do right? I don't bring
it into the kitchen so no worries there.

Mary T

> But wonder a bit about the those pork roasts. Bag is
> puffy.

Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

2a. Re: Starving to death...
Posted by: "jackie" jackiehale1@bellsouth.net jackieoscar2000
Date: Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:08 pm ((PST))

> Full--satiety--is a great feeling. Depending on the size of your
dogs,
> there are a number of easy ways to feed Big Food from time to
time.
>
> What have you been feeding to what size dogs?
> Chris O
>
Now, this is going to sound like very little, but:

1. Frankie- 5 yr old, 60ish pound mixed breed-very, very easy
keeper, can survive on air. He gets 1/3 ground meat, 1 egg in the am
and 1/2 turkey neck or the large part of a chicken quarter at night.
He needed to loose weight-he is in agility and needs to loose
alittle more.

2. Joey-60ish pound mixed breed, Frankie's littermate-not as easy a
keeper, same in the am and a full chicken quarter or 3/4 turkey neck
at night. He does not need to loose any more weight

3. Sundae-35 pound mix, 9 months old. He gets 1/2 lb gound meat
and 1 egg in the am and large chicken drumstick or 1/2 turkey neck
at night. He is about right

4. Luke-2 year old Rot/Lab mix 73 pounds. Easy keeper, 1/2 lb
ground meat and 1 egg in am and full chicken quarter or full turkey
neck at night. He does not need to loose any more weight.

Also, the occasional liver/heart, etc. What would you feed these
guys if I were to feed a big, complicated meal? Like a full roast?
Big hunks of meat? Or just a bigger serving of what I already feed
1 night, then lighter the next day? Or, keep what I am doing and
ignore their pitiful pleas? I could do that...

Thanks!
Jackie Hale

Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________

2b. Re: Starving to death...
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:01 pm ((PST))

"jackie" <jackiehale1@...> wrote:
>> Now, this is going to sound like very little, but:
*****
It is little. Ground meats offer NO satisfaction. Half turkey necks
are hardly worth the effort to cut in half. A chicken thigh
(the "large part of the leg quarter") provides no energy.

You really really really should rethink how you offer food. Stop
thinking day by day: even if you were to feed small one day so that
you could feed a whole turkey neck (such extravagance!) the next,
you'd be opening up opportunities. How about nixing the ground meat
and egg meal entirely, and moving to one meal a day? Strikes me that
the ground meat and egg meal is a holdover from previous veggie
days.

Also, the occasional liver/heart,
*****
Liver can be occasional. Heart deserves to figure prominently in
their menu. Heart is fed as muscle meat, not organ. Lose the ground
meat, feed more heart!

What would you feed these
> guys if I were to feed a big, complicated meal? Like a full
roast?
> Big hunks of meat? Or just a bigger serving of what I already feed
> 1 night, then lighter the next day?
*****
These are good ideas. Cut loose from the rigid formula you have
created. You are feeding your dogs like they're small and they're
not.

Whether you feed once a day or you feed varied small and big (or even
no-so big) meals, give the kids a chance to wrestle with their
meals. You do not have to feed two meals a day, you do not have to
feed a meat meal and a RMB meal. You can offer a pork roast for
example and collect it up and feed it again and then if there's
something left, do it again.

Or, keep what I am doing and
> ignore their pitiful pleas? I could do that...
*****
Well, IMO you should ignore their pitiful pleas regardless of how you
feed, but I really don't think continuing as you are is doing them
any favors.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________

2c. Re: Starving to death...
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:07 pm ((PST))

"costrowski75" <Chriso75@...> wrote:
>A chicken thigh
> (the "large part of the leg quarter") provides no energy.
*****
Oh duh.
This should have been "requires no energy" but started out as "provides
no challenge" and got lost. Sorry.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________

2d. Maybe not starving, but probably hungry
Posted by: "mozookpr" mozookpr@yahoo.com mozookpr
Date: Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:08 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "jackie" <jackiehale1@...> wrote:
>
> >
> Now, this is going to sound like very little, but:
>

It sure does! 2-4% of body weight. Consider investing in a kitchen
scale. I give my Pomeranian chicken quarters. He doesn't finish them
at a sitting, or even a day, and I put leftovers away for the next
meal, but it does give him something to work on. My Sheltie could
polish off most of the meals you have described in about five minutes
and still want more, and she is a 20 lb. puppy.

If your dogs act hungry, they probably ARE, on those rations.

Wendy

Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________

2e. Re: Starving to death...
Posted by: "Monica A. Joy" imajoy@hughes.net imajoy2003
Date: Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:23 am ((PST))

Hi Jackie,
My two Labs & two Std Poodles were notorious for counter surfing and trash dumping. I started feeding them once a day (I've been feeding Raw since June '07) like Andrea suggested and then skip a meal or day and mixing it up and now I can go in the kitchen without everyone following me.

I feel a little guilty on the day I'm not feeding them or when I'm skipping a meal but they don't seem to mind or care much. They come in after chores and if I'm not feeding them they go and lay down like they normally would.

Good Luck,

Monica in Michigan

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

3a. Re: Dinky
Posted by: "John and Jeni Blackmon" jonjeni777@sbcglobal.net jeniavidiva
Date: Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:09 pm ((PST))

Cathy,
I never have fasted my dogs, if they needed to get sick, I would rather they have something in them than not, JMO. But if she only eats little bits, the ground meat would probable be fine, until you get the turkey breast., you could even get a whole one, probably on sale now, and cut it up for the size you need, and save the other parts, bonier ones, for later.
If she is acting and feeling better you might not even need to give her anything right now. No worries on the panic, we all do, they are our babies, and we care, that's why we look for answers everywhere we can. If she does show signs, break the capsule open, give only half, with a couple bites of ground turkey, if she will eat, if she won't eat, you still have half a capsule, put in some turkey broth, you can boil some and give her some that way, the smell of it always makes them at least want to take a sip or two:) But really if she is better, just let her eat a little like she wants to tolerate, and then keep the turkey going for a couple weeks and see how that goes. Keep us posted, I like the name Dinky:)
Jeni

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (13)
________________________________________________________________________

3b. Re: Dinky
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:09 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee Lee" <rlee@...> wrote:
>
> My worry is pancreatitis...that hunched back, pacing and stomach pain
are
> classic symptoms.
*****
I 100% agree, and the fact that the symptoms are recurring says there
is something much bigger going on than dietary indescretions. A
healthy dog can eat all sorts of crap and laugh about it. I think it's
time to stop fooling with poor Dinky's diet and get some serious
diagnostics. Bloodwork, sonogram at least.

It is clear changing his diet is at best a short term fix. Until you
see how bad it really is (whatever "it" is), you are simply rearranging
the deck chairs on the Titanic.

Please. Consider a professional look-see for the little guy.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (13)
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________________________________________________________________________

4a. Salt needs with raw feeding
Posted by: "cleone4100" cleone4100@aol.com cleone4100
Date: Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:09 pm ((PST))

Well my dogs have been on raw food now for about 3 months and it is
going great. Just recently however my 4 year old male has been chewing
up his dads sweaty bandanas, something he hasn't done before. He is
chewing up the sweatband portion only. They have toys to chew up so I
don't think its that. Do I need to be giving them any supplements or
additional salt?
Thanks, Carey and Biscuit and Gravy, the bloodhounds

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________

4b. Re: Salt needs with raw feeding
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:35 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "cleone4100" <cleone4100@...> wrote:
>
> He is
> chewing up the sweatband portion only. They have toys to chew up
> so I
> don't think its that.

A dog can have 1,000 chew toys and when he finds something different
he will chew on it. It's how dogs explore their world. They use
their nose and mouth.

> Do I need to be giving them any supplements or
> additional salt?

Everything a dog does isn't because of diet. I strongly suspect he
has started this because of dad's smell on the bandana. I wouldn't
try to relate this to diet.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (2)
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5a. Re: Meaty deer bone supply in Mont. Co. Md.
Posted by: "Sylvia Tetzlaff" stetzlaff@yahoo.com stetzlaff
Date: Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:19 pm ((PST))

Hi, Steve,

Where in MO CO? I work in MO CO, and I want venison
for my raw pups.

Thanks,

Sylvia in PG CO

--- steven muse <musesteven@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Great source of meaty deer bones in MO CO, Md (off
> of I-270)! I found a deer processor (butcher) that
> I've been getting 10 gal bucket's (approx 25 +/-
> lbs.) full of meaty deer bones and scraps (chunks of
> meat & fat). Meat is free, but the bucket costs $10.
> (since your not allowed to sell game meat). If you
> live in the MO CO, Md area near I-270 e-mail me at
> westvasteve@aol and I'll get you his info. My dogs
> love em'.
>
> If you don't live in the area, call your local
> coop or ask the local hunter where the closest deer
> processor is and ask him for his scraps.
>
> steve
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>

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Messages in this topic (9)
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6a. Re: Question about Live animal markets (sanitary?)
Posted by: "John and Jeni Blackmon" jonjeni777@sbcglobal.net jeniavidiva
Date: Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:19 pm ((PST))

Their stomachs are made to handle all kinds of dirty stuff that we can't. But I am surprised that this place was that filthy. But all in all if the meat was cheap, I would let them eat it, you could do a simple rinse first, for your own happiness:) But not needed. They'll love it just fine.
jeni

P.s. cudo's on the hunting down a good source:)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (5)
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6b. Re: Question about Live animal markets (sanitary?)
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:35 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Elie" <obo12759@...> wrote:
>
> I know, dogs
> can handle ripe beef and all that, but how do I know that this beef
> isn't tainted with some harmful bacteria?

What do you think "ripe" is? Of course it's tainted with harmful
bacteria but it doesn't matter. They can handle it.

> Like from the feces which I
> assume got mixed in somehow with the beef in that freezer
> (because of
> improper handling/butchering).

Doesn't matter. My dogs eat deer poop, rabbit poop and most any
other poop they run across. Its no big deal.

> My main concern is basically this: given the fact
> that I found this place to be rather unsanitary, and that the beef
> still smells like farm animals,

It's because they are.

> and that it was touching the hide of
> the cow in the freezer, and that my hands smellled like poo after
> touching some of that meat, do any of you think safe to feed my
> puppy?

Yep, I would.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (5)
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6c. Re: Question about Live animal markets (sanitary?)
Posted by: "Elie" obo12759@yahoo.com obo12759
Date: Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:51 pm ((PST))

Hi all,
Thank you all so much for your responses. When I think about it now,
the place probably wasn't that dirty, it's just I had no point of
reference as to how clean these types of places normally are (I'm from
the city, and I've never been to a slaughterhouse or anything like that.)

You guys all sound right- the meat's just fine, it's just that I'm new
to all this, and I don't want my puppy to get sick (and then get an "I
told you so" about raw from the vet - one lecture was more than
enough! Oh, and I'm currently looking for another vet, one that
doesn't react in horror to the idea of feeding a dog what it's
supposed to eat. But that's a whole different story).

I guess I'll toss him a hunk of meat in the morning, and we'll see how
it goes. Thanks again!

Elie and Cosmo

Messages in this topic (5)
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7. Re: new to group - Hello!
Posted by: "Michael Moore" m-tak@sbcglobal.net annemoore2000
Date: Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:19 pm ((PST))

>>So thanks for having me here and have a great day!<<

Hey, Lisa -- welcome to *this* group!!! You'll be amazed at the depth of knowledge here, too. Everyone here will be delighted to hear about Ringeaux when he arrives, I'm sure.

`-- Anne and the PWC and one goofy GSD rescue and a silly Golden rescue

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (1)
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8a. Re: Anal Glands
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Thu Nov 29, 2007 8:06 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "paula.0666" <roogirl@...> wrote:
>
> I'm just interested in the
> experiences and suggestions of the group far more than what
> Dr No says!

Dr. No don't know. Yes to what the others said. I had a dog with
anal glands that needed expressed a couple of times a year until
switched. Not one expression since switching.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (9)
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8b. Re: Anal Glands
Posted by: "paula.0666" roogirl@adam.com.au paula.0666
Date: Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:51 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "paula.0666" <roogirl@...> wrote:
>
> MODERATORS NOTE:SIGN YOUR MAILS!
>
>Thank you so much for the interest and support for issues that no-one
else will discuss with me. I have learned how to use the archives and
will try not to ask questions now unless I have to. I also apologise
for being so excited that I forgot to sign my mail.

Kind regards - Paula (learning about rawfeeding AND computers!!)
>
>
>>

Messages in this topic (9)
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9a. Re: High Volume Treats
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Thu Nov 29, 2007 8:06 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Treulich, Sarah" <sarah@...>
wrote:
>
> I was considering using the
> hotdogs and turkey pieces by themselves. Any suggestions?

I've been clicker training for close to 10 years. I ususally use
Authority Little Liver Treats or Bil-jack liver treats(I think they
are the same thing). Each little "nuget" of those things makes
about 20 to 25 treats(obvously I use very tiny treats). Something
the size of a fingernail would be about 20 treats for my dogs and my
dogs are Great Danes. A single hot dog makes about a couple of
hundred treats. I use beef hot dogs because they have less moisture.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (5)
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10a. Re: Bad Pork??
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Thu Nov 29, 2007 8:06 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Tracy" <fireynyredhead@...>
wrote:
>
> For dogs is there such a thing as Bad Pork? How long does pork
last > in the fridge before it becomes unhealthy for the dogs?

I suspect a lot longer than you would want to keep in in the fridge.

> I know that they
> love really ripe beef, but still being rather new to this, I was
> wondering if it is ok to feed pork that is no longer fit for human
> comsumption?

Yes, much longer.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (3)
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11a. Re: what should i buy
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:50 pm ((PST))

"tiffany.contempopainting" <tiffcurran@...> wrote:
have realized that my local market doesn't have much variety (chicken
turkey)
*****
No pork? No beef? Wowsa.

I'm going to a Hispanic market this weekend what should I look for.
*****
How about Asian? From an Asian market you're likely to get the most
out of pork. Pork meat without bone (you don't need a name for these
parts, just point), pork meat on bone (mostly neck bones that don't
have much meat on them, unfortunately but also legs and maybe
shoulder roasts). You might be able to get some decent fresh fish
(don't worry about Omega 3 fish, just think protein variety).

From the Hispanic market you should be able to get beef things, maybe
pork. Don't worry about beef with bones, just get beef meat. If
it's beef meat and you can afford it, buy it. Again, you don't need
a name for the stuff. Maybe some goat stuff. Don't buy the chopped
up meat and bones. Don't buy the tripe, regardless of how much you
really want to think it's the right kind of tripe. It isn't.

Eventually we'll need organs and stuff what consitutes organs.
*****
Liver, kidney, spleen (pork spleen is called pork melt). You should
buy heart but it's fed as meaty meat not organ. Don't worry about
the intestines you'll see, but the fact is any fresh meat you find in
a store you can feed to your dog.

Sorry but still new at this.
*****
Don't be sorry. Learn to use the archives. The answers you want are
in there.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
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12a. Re: Mixing veggies with meat
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:00 pm ((PST))

"lolaspony" <lolaspony@...> wrote:
>
>> I thought that
> it was advised to mix pureed raw veggies with the raw meat. Is this
> wrong? I've been giving my dog a mixture of raw meat (ground meat,
> chicken backs, etc.) with pureed raw veggies (usually carrots,
> broccoli, celery), and flaxseed oil, nutritional yeast, and sometimes
> raw egg.
*****
It's only advised by people who think dogs are omnivores (they're not)
or by people who have products to sell you (we don't). No veggies
pureed or otherwise, no mixing anything with meat (feed the meat
whole), chicken backs are good for bone but severely lack meat. No
flaxseed (no nothing from plants), no nutritional yeast. Just meat,
edible bone, organs.

Eggs are so good they can be fed quite regularly; "sometimes" is hardly
enough. You probably read that whites should not be fed. That's also
incorrect.

I recommend you access the list archives and do some preliminary
reading, then check out:
http://rawfed.com
http://rawfeddogs.net
http://www.rawlearning.com
Chris O

Messages in this topic (5)
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13a. will too much bone cause the runs?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:15 pm ((PST))

recyclerat@... wrote:>
> i've never given him tripe, but i've seen in the store..and,
GAG. i was
> willing to give it a shot if it was super fatty and easily
digested..but if
> its not - then i'd just rather not mess with that all together.
*****
Tripe you see at a store is processed for human consumption and offers
none of the benefits associated with raw green tripe. Don't even
bother gagging over the stuff. Ain't worth it.

And raw green tripe varies in fat content. I get chopped green tripe
from two sources and neither version is fatty. It is easily digested
though.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (14)
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14a. ADMIIN/Re: High Volume Treats
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:23 pm ((PST))

Treat-making is an inappropriate topic for the rawfeeding list.
Recipes are not appropriate. Dehydrators are not appropriate.
Measuring, weighing, roasting, boiling, drying, freezing of treats:
also inappropriate. Please take all such conversations to RawChat.

Newcomers, now you know.
Those of you who have been around a while, you should already know.
Chris O
Moderation Team

Messages in this topic (5)
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15.1. Re: Green Tripe
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:26 pm ((PST))

"mrsmenk" <mrsmenk@...> wrote:
>
> Sorry if this has been covered before. I could not find it in the
> archives.
*****
There are 61 (now 62) messages in the archives regarding green tripe.
Not sure where you looked, but if you typed in "green tripe" you should
have been able to find something. Keep trying.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (62)
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16a. Re: Need to wash the scraps from butcher?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:42 pm ((PST))

"mariola9000" <mariola9000@...> wrote:>
> I picked up some venison scraps from a butcher today and he told me
to
> wash the meat because it is not fresh (the deer were not local -
from
> Colorado, and we live in California) and dirty
*****
Dogs don't care. If it makes YOU feel better, wash it. I suspect
the butcher has little experience with dogs eating raw meat. Dirt
happens.

Should I wash it before freezing like he suggested,
> and if yes - in what? Plain warm water?
*****
You don't have to freeze it either. I mean, you can if you want to
but you don't have to. Forget the washing.

If I ask for meaty bones of a goat for example
> (the goat leg quarters are $3.29/lb), what would be a reasonable
> amount to pay for those?
*****
There are no such things as meaty bones from a goat. Goats aren't
terribly meaty. If the bone's been stripped of meat, there won't be
enough meat left to justify its expense. With goat, you pretty much
buy the whole body part, or you buy nothing.

I got scraps for free, but I guess people are
> usually paying for meaty bones, right?.
*****
I recommend you stop thinking about acquiring meaty bones. You will
almost without exception get stuck with bare bones. You want body
parts. Shoulder roasts, legs, necks, haunches, ribs, backs, tails.

The best way to get a "meaty bone" is to buy a bone-in roast, cut off
some meat for yourself, then feed the dog what's left.

> I never fed goat yet. Are goat bones soft? Which ones are edible?
*****
Depends on the dog of course, but I've found that everything goat is
edible. Goat is one of my favorite things to feed. All good, no
waste.

> He asked if I wanted the deer bones bones, but those were devoid of
> any meat, so I declined.
*****
Good for you! How you think about bare deer bones? Think that same
way about every bone.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (2)
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