Feed Pets Raw Food: Nov 22, 2007

Thursday, November 22, 2007

[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12305

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Are deer bones OK?
From: katkellm
1b. Re: Are deer bones OK?
From: Yasuko herron
1c. Re: Are deer bones OK?
From: sfed57

2a. Re: What next?
From: costrowski75
2b. Re: What next?
From: skittles888@aol.com

3a. Re: Where can I find green tripe?
From: costrowski75
3b. Re: Where can I find green tripe?
From: h h

4a. Re: Bad Breath
From: carnesbill
4b. Re: Bad Breath
From: vickies_28
4c. Re: Bad Breath
From: vickies_28
4d. Re: Bad Breath
From: Sandee Lee

5a. New to Turkey Feeding
From: tobyfogle
5b. Re: New to Turkey Feeding
From: Yasuko herron

6a. Re: Nominate this Group for Best of Yahoo!
From: Belinda van de Loo
6b. Re: Nominate this Group for Best of Yahoo!
From: mrbob02140
6c. Re: Nominate this Group for Best of Yahoo!
From: mrbob02140

7. Here is HOW to Nominate this Group for Best of Yahoo!
From: Anntiga@aol.com

8a. Re: certain meats cause panting
From: delcaste

9a. Whole turkey for gorge meal?
From: K. Gordon Crawford
9b. Re: Whole turkey for gorge meal?
From: Casey Post
9c. Re: Whole turkey for gorge meal?
From: K. Gordon Crawford

10a. only eats with people
From: hiideel
10b. Re: only eats with people
From: Shelly

11a. Re: Rawfeeding and UTI
From: marjo roth

12. Re: only eats with people- its bonding time :-)
From: Michelle R

Messages
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1a. Re: Are deer bones OK?
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 9:11 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "sfed57" <sfed57@...> wrote:
>
He also
> gave me the ribs with hardly no meat on them. I was wondering if these
> bones are ok for the dogs to chew on, or if they are like beef bones
> and will wreck their teeth.

Hi Shawna,
IMO, they are fine to feed and are not wreck bones. They are a good
crunchy chew that can be used to add bone to some hunks of all meat
meals or as a good keep 'em busy for a while chew toy. KathyM

Messages in this topic (6)
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1b. Re: Are deer bones OK?
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 9:51 am ((PST))

> He also gave me the ribs with hardly no meat on them. I was wondering if
>these bones are ok for the dogs to chew on, or if they are like beef bones
> and will wreck their teeth. The neck is a bit of a meal but the ribs
> would just be for something to chew on for entertainment.

Hi. I do feed Elk;big deer (correct?),and I cannot find Neck but I can find ribs so,I feed to my dog corgi 34lb.

I feed such bony parts with added boneless meat. So,I feed Elk rib along with boneless Elk meat.

She usually consume everything but,sometimes,there are thicker side of bone and,she sometimes leave such pieces and give up for trade;chicken feet.

I have no prob with teeth for Elk rib.It is easier bone to crack than beef rib bones.

yassy

---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (6)
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1c. Re: Are deer bones OK?
Posted by: "sfed57" sfed57@yahoo.ca sfed57
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 10:52 am ((PST))

Thanks for all the replies! I think I will try to feed the ribs and
just add them to very meaty meal like a nice beef roast (the grocery
store here often has them in the freezer burn section for really
cheap!). I will try to separate the neck into two pieces as I dont
think my two girls will like to share!

Thanks again, Shawna

Messages in this topic (6)
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2a. Re: What next?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 9:38 am ((PST))

"swayzepetsitting" <skittles888@...> wrote:
>
> Happy Thanksgiving! My border collie has been on raw for a week
and 2
> days now. She is currently eating bone in, skin on chicken breasts
> and backs. I feed her with my 3 cats 3X a day.
*****
How old is she?

> I am not sure what to add next.
*****
Whatever you got, really. What have you got to offer? Pork is
good. If you're doing turkey today, cut off some raw meat and feed
that. Or buy her her own turkey and feed through it little by
little. Beef heart (or pork heart) is a good red meat to try.

I really want to have her on 2
> feedings a day, but I don't want the increased food per meal to make
> her sick.
*****
She's not going to be sick, unless she's been sick and I've forgotten
the details. Loose stools most often result from feeding too much,
and loose stools do not mean "sick". They mean you over-estimated
your dog's digestive ability and next time you will feed less.

You can minimize the opportunity for loose stools by gradually
phasing out the middle meal: over a week incrementally increase the
AM and PM meals while you are reducing the midday meal--a bit here a
bit there--til there is no more midday meal. If it takes longer than
a week to reshuffle the deck, that's fine.

However! I recommend you do not move to two squares a day AND try a
new meat at the same time! Stick with what's been working, get that
menu switched to two meals, THEN worry about adding variety. One
thing at a time.

As far
> as the actual meals, I was thinking of keeping one meal either
breast
> or back and then the other could be 1/2 of a chicken quarter (I'm
> pretty sure that's about 1/2 a lb and she needs almost a lb a day to
> get down to her ideal weight). Does this sound alright
*****
IMO once you get her solidly on two meals a day, you should make one
of them not chicken and preferably on some days neither meal should
be chicken. And since bones in all the meals--day after day--is a
lot more bone than your border collie needs, I also suggest you
gradually introduce her to boneless meals. One meal with bone,
another without should digestively work out just fine.

When my border collie was eating three meals a day, only one of them
was bone-in. When I moved her to two meals, only one of them was
bone-in...and after she was over that hump, I alternated boneless
days with bone-in days; now at 13 months she is eating once a day and
I continue to alternate boneless meals with bone-in meals.

She only rarely has loose stools and when she does I can invariably
trace the cause back to me pushing the envelope a little too far.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (8)
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2b. Re: What next?
Posted by: "skittles888@aol.com" skittles888@aol.com swayzepetsitting
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 10:17 am ((PST))

>It depends on how old she is. If she is an adult, you should be
>able to go to 2 meals a day now. Otherwise it depends on her age.

Sorry about that...she is nine years old

Swayze and Bean Dip, Sniff, McGuirk, and Finnigan

________________________________________________________________________
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Messages in this topic (8)
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3a. Re: Where can I find green tripe?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 9:43 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Affordable Health Insurance
<insuranceplan@...> wrote:
>
> I actually find tripe at Polish Supermarkets all the time
*****
My guess is, Mr. Affordable Health Insurance, that the tripe you find
in Polish markets is cleaned and bleached tripe that, despite its
sometimes grayish color, is not green nor ever will be. You can feed
this processed stuff but there's little reason to.

We Poles may have our dietary quirks but eating raw, unprocessed green
tripe ain't one of them. I promise, hope to spit.
Chris Ostrowski

Messages in this topic (6)
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3b. Re: Where can I find green tripe?
Posted by: "h h" deedeekinsisme@yahoo.com tarbedyh
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 3:26 pm ((PST))

I actually find tripe at Polish Supermarkets all the time

~~~~~~~~~~
Yeah, but that's the scaled and bleached to be "safe" tripe. The green tripe will not be found at a supermarket. Compare the pictures here to what you see in the store:
http://rawfeddogs.net/RecipePhoto/31/0

HEIDI MARIE
~with the woofs-Cheyenne and Lazy B~
~and the moggies-Minerva, Shasta, and Misty-Jo~

---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (6)
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4a. Re: Bad Breath
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 9:51 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "vickies_28" <vickies_28@...> wrote:
>
> My 8 mo old puppy has been on raw for almost 4 months now. He had
> developed bad breath over the past month or so.
>

I suspect he is loosing teeth. That will sometimes cause bad breath.
If you are not feeding ground meats, it should go away pretty soon.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (7)
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4b. Re: Bad Breath
Posted by: "vickies_28" vickies_28@yahoo.com vickies_28
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 2:20 pm ((PST))

I am not sure why you would say that, that he is losing his teeth. He
is a puppy! And all his teeth are intact. I checked.
And I am not feeding ground meats at all. I feed chicken cut up in
chunks big enough for one meal bone in(1lbs or just below), beef
chunks no bone(smaller pieces meant for human kebabs or something),
and pork necks or pork chunks. ALso organs such as kidneys, liver,
then turkey necks. I would think that this is all what I am supposed
to feed. I do no have access to any other meats like rabbit, and he
did not like the pork feet.
So what I am I doing wrong? Any other suggestions?

Vickie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "carnesbill" <carnesw@...> wrote:
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "vickies_28" <vickies_28@> wrote:
> >
> > My 8 mo old puppy has been on raw for almost 4 months now. He had
> > developed bad breath over the past month or so.
> >
>
> I suspect he is loosing teeth. That will sometimes cause bad
breath.
> If you are not feeding ground meats, it should go away pretty soon.
>
> Bill Carnes
> http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm
>
> Feeding Raw since October 2002
>
> "Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
> Dr. Tom Lonsdale
>

Messages in this topic (7)
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4c. Re: Bad Breath
Posted by: "vickies_28" vickies_28@yahoo.com vickies_28
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 2:20 pm ((PST))

As a matter of fact, I just realized I forgot to mention, that he also
gets raw eggs with shells and cottage cheese. And ocasionally raw fish
chunks
would any of that cause bad breath?
Vickie
> >
>
> I suspect he is loosing teeth. That will sometimes cause bad
breath.
> If you are not feeding ground meats, it should go away pretty soon.
>
> Bill Carnes
> http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm
>
> Feeding Raw since October 2002
>
> "Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
> Dr. Tom Lonsdale
>

Messages in this topic (7)
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4d. Re: Bad Breath
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 4:41 pm ((PST))

So he has lost his puppy teeth and has all of the adult teeth in? Are his
gums red?

You may need to feed him some larger items that he has to work at in order
to get the flossing action and dental benefits. Slabs of ribs, large chunks
of meat that he has to sink those teeth in....that type of thing.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "vickies_28" <vickies_28@yahoo.com>

Messages in this topic (7)
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5a. New to Turkey Feeding
Posted by: "tobyfogle" eafog@msn.com tobyfogle
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 10:04 am ((PST))

Happy Thanksgiving. I feed raw to my 80 pound Golden Retriever and 40
pound black lab/chow mix, but I've never fed them anything other than
turkey wings. They are both over a year old. They have their own
turkey (raw of course) this year and I'm ready to cut it in pieces to
freeze. I'm looking for advice on how you cut and freeze pieces. Do I
need to worry about all the small bones in the legs? Are there any
bones they can't have (some of the ribs in the cavity feel pretty
sharp). Thanks for your help. I appreciate this group so much!
Andrea F.

Messages in this topic (2)
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5b. Re: New to Turkey Feeding
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 10:53 am ((PST))

>I'm looking for advice on how you cut and freeze pieces.

Hi,here is how I do for my dog palette the Corgi 34lb.

I get a whole Turkey,get giblet bag out from bird,and I cut turkey neck into half(thatmakes about 3oz each) and,when I feed neck,I add little more boneless meat to her meal.

I cut into half because I do not like to feed entire neck as meal but i like to feed with added meat to it.My dog likes it and crunch down fine so,sheis fine with the length.

now you have a whole bird,I first cut in center makeit to 2 pieces.Then,I weigh and figure about how much cut I need out of the one piece. I do the same with the other one and,I have one with wing attached andI have one little big pieces(half of Turkey leg etc).I do not makeit to exact weigh but rough weigh.

Some big pieces like wing with breast pieces weigh more than palettes wants in one sitting but,in that case,I just lessen next meal a bit andI can adjust so,I do not worry too much about weigh. It is same with leg portion too. Leg is huge but, I cut into half and it may come out more than she normally eats with one meal but I adjust next meal with portion so,even if weigh is bit off,I do not worry.

you have big dog so,I think you do not need much cutting for birds.

My dog can eat any bone in Turkey without any prob. So,your dog would be ok with Turkey bone. How you cut bird isas same as you do for chicken.Just cut into your dog's portion.I do this way for all birds I feed.

Bone may look sharp for human eyes but don't underestimate your dog's ability.your dog will befine.No cutting or crashing would be needed.They can do on their own.

since 34lb dog can eat all bones from Turkey,so can yourdog with no prob!!

My dog will have Goat leg tonight for thanksgiving. it will be so funny picture to my dad who has come from Japan andstaying til thisSaturday:-PP

I for thefirst time roast tUrkey.Wish me luck!

Happy thanksgiving!!

yassy

---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (2)
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6a. Re: Nominate this Group for Best of Yahoo!
Posted by: "Belinda van de Loo" auntielindyloo@yahoo.com belindavandeloo
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 10:16 am ((PST))

I'll vote for us, but what's the link to do so?
Belinda
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "mrbob02140" <bob_roth@...> wrote:
>
> Come on people... we are 10,000 strong! If this group is not one of
> the "Best of Yahoo" I'll eat my hat! Chris, Bill and all the other
> regulars that do SO much to support us all deserve the recongition!
Not
> to mention promoting the diet we have all learned is so much better
for
> our beloved pets. If we don't do something to stop the multi-billion
> dollar pet foot industry from brainwashing pet owners into thinking
> Dogs are omnivores, who will?
>
> Bob
>

Messages in this topic (5)
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6b. Re: Nominate this Group for Best of Yahoo!
Posted by: "mrbob02140" bob_roth@comcast.net mrbob02140
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 10:52 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Belinda van de Loo"
<auntielindyloo@...> wrote:
>
> I'll vote for us, but what's the link to do so?
> Belinda

I clicked on the "Best of Y! Groups" to the left of the messages then
clicked on the "Animals and Pets" from that page. Below is a link to it.

Bob

http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/bestofyahoogroups/animals.html

PS. I guess you'll have to cut and paste it into your browser address
bar to use the link.

Messages in this topic (5)
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6c. Re: Nominate this Group for Best of Yahoo!
Posted by: "mrbob02140" bob_roth@comcast.net mrbob02140
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 11:16 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "mrbob02140" <bob_roth@...> wrote:
> I clicked on the "Best of Y! Groups" to the left of the messages then
> clicked on the "Animals and Pets" from that page. Below is a link to
it.
>
> Bob
>
> http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/bestofyahoogroups/animals.html

Sorry, I have to correct myself... the "Nominate your Group" button is
on the bottom right on the "Best Of" page, no need to click on "Animals
and Pets", that just shows other "Best of Animal Groups"

Bob

Messages in this topic (5)
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7. Here is HOW to Nominate this Group for Best of Yahoo!
Posted by: "Anntiga@aol.com" Anntiga@aol.com anntiga
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 10:52 am ((PST))

Here is what I did to nominate the rawfeeding group for the Best of Yahoo
Groups:

Send an email to _best_of_groups@yahoogroups.com_
(mailto:best_of_groups@yahoogroups.com)

In the subject line, put down: Nominating _Rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com_
(mailto:Rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com) for Best of Yahoo Groups!

In the body of the letter put down: I nominate _Rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com_
(mailto:Rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com) for the Best of Yahoo Groups!

Sign you email and send it in.

Ann Gaskell
Norman and Angel Scamp
San Francisco Peninsula, CA, USA

**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
products.
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Messages in this topic (1)
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8a. Re: certain meats cause panting
Posted by: "delcaste" delcaste@yahoo.com delcaste
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 10:52 am ((PST))

feed smaller meals, at least until the dog is
> more accustomed to eating larger amounts. Not just with pork though,
> with any meat that causes apparently inappropriate panting.
> Chris O

Yes, when I feed my dog Big Food she pants all night so I am giving her
less. She has to be uncomfortable if she pants all night and paces.
Still learning, though

Silvina

Messages in this topic (8)
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9a. Whole turkey for gorge meal?
Posted by: "K. Gordon Crawford" kgcrawford@gmail.com kgcrawfordesq
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 12:32 pm ((PST))

I have a 16 lb turkey and I'd like to give it to my 16 mos old 120 lb
bullmastiff and let her go to town. Is this ok? She has been rawfed
since February and used to eat 2.5- 3 lbs per day but was recently cut
down to 1.5 - 2 lb per day, usually in one sitting. She is voracious
and has never been given all that she wants. Is there such thing as
eating too much? I'd like to give it to her till she gives up, then
cut it up for future meals - but what if she just keeps eating?

--
K. Gordon Crawford

Messages in this topic (3)
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9b. Re: Whole turkey for gorge meal?
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 12:43 pm ((PST))

>I have a 16 lb turkey and I'd like to give it to my 16 mos old 120 lb
> bullmastiff and let her go to town.

I don't like the idea of springing a gorge meal on a dog without some kind
of build up to the event. It's been my experience that dogs who are not
accustomed to gorging can eat themselves into quite the painful tummy ache,
rather than the happy glow of a dog who is used to gorging...

I advise building up to gorge meals gradually.

FWIW.

Casey

Messages in this topic (3)
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9c. Re: Whole turkey for gorge meal?
Posted by: "K. Gordon Crawford" kgcrawford@gmail.com kgcrawfordesq
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 4:41 pm ((PST))

++++Mod note: pls make sure you sign your messages. The mods get tired of reminding people about basic etiquette, and depending on their time constraints may and have deleted messages and they never make it to the list. We do realise people do forget at times, but let's just think about doing it and making it better for everyone. +++++

Thanks, I stopped her at 3.8 lbs. I think she feels as gorged as I do
today, she came in and went straight to her bed :)

Messages in this topic (3)
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10a. only eats with people
Posted by: "hiideel" hiideel@yahoo.com hiideel
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 12:32 pm ((PST))

Hi,

We've been feeding our GSD raw for almost 2 years now. We feed him
outside and have never really had a problem with him eating. Depending
on the day/week we feed him chicken, deer, pork and/or fish - we
obviously include organ meat, muscle meat and raw meaty bones
throughout a given week.
More recently he has been refusing to eat unless we go outside and
stand there with him. We have been putting him out for about 15-20
minutes alone with his food - we then go out and pick it up if he
hasn't eaten. It is at this time when he decides to eat. He doesn't
take it and run away with it - so he is not food aggressive. He lets
us take it, but my husband and I don't want him to go without food,
especially if he begins to eat it at this time. The longest he has
gone without eating is 1-2 days and then we cave in and stand outside
with him!

Has anyone else dealt with this? Should we just keep taking it away
afer 15-20 minutes if he doesn't eat? What is the longest time a dog
will not eat (without it being unhealthy for the dog?)

Thanks for any help,
Heidi

Messages in this topic (2)
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10b. Re: only eats with people
Posted by: "Shelly" StuartLittle@comcast.net stuartjeanlittle
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 1:04 pm ((PST))

Why not just stand outside with him all the time? We sit outside and watch
our dogs eat every day while we have our morning coffee. We really enjoy
watching them enjoy their food.

Shelly

On Thursday 22 November 2007 15:03, hiideel wrote:
Hi,
.......
More recently he has been refusing to eat unless we go outside and
stand there with him. ......
....The longest he has gone without eating is 1-2 days and then we cave in and
stand outside with him!

Thanks for any help,
Heidi

Messages in this topic (2)
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11a. Re: Rawfeeding and UTI
Posted by: "marjo roth" greytbizz@yahoo.com greytbizz
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 1:04 pm ((PST))

Hi Casey,

We did not get bloodwork ... only the urinalysis and
cultures (expensive enough).

Nothing new in our lives except the rawfeeding.

We have changed our minds about the stinky chicken in
the fridge and will go back to freezing (small amounts
at a time due to size).

I need to shop weekly for the RMBs ($0.99 lb) and less
frequently for muscle meats ($0.99 - $1.99 lb)/organs
($1.49) etc.

If I find a source that is less than that then I will
invest in a small chest freezer and stock up by buying
in bulk.

Sorry about the delay ... we do not have a computer
... using the one at work (or library).

Marjo

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Messages in this topic (3)
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12. Re: only eats with people- its bonding time :-)
Posted by: "Michelle R" crested_dog8@yahoo.com crested_dog8
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 2:20 pm ((PST))

At my house, my kids and I go out on the porch every morning for their breakfast. Most just eat whatever whereever, but I still have a few who prefer to be delicately fed. Reminds me of that movie "Overboard" with Goldie Hawn, where the rich mother in law talks about properly "placing the food on her dogs tongue" HA too funny! :-) Me and mine are still new to raw, so to get them going I dont mind a few hand feedings. I consider it bonding time. We are working up to actually eating, tearing, larger peices of meat and bone...one day at a time for us.
Just got back from the store, found a nice little 12 pound turkey for my kids.....they can eat for days on this thing! :-)

Michelle Radcliff
Mengshi Chinese Cresteds
http://www.geocities.com/crested_dog8/mengshihome.html

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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12304

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. turkey insides...
From: Mallory Kwiatkowski
1b. Re: turkey insides...
From: carnesbill
1c. Re: turkey insides...
From: costrowski75
1d. Re: turkey insides...
From: Mallory Kwiatkowski

2a. Re: Big Meat?
From: Laurie Swanson

3a. [rawfeedng]8 week old underweight rescue pups
From: Mallory Kwiatkowski
3b. Re: [rawfeedng]8 week old underweight rescue pups
From: katkellm

4a. Re: Want to start RAW feeding with Papillonþ
From: Laurie Swanson

5a. Re: Advice please-2 days on raw with variety of stools...
From: carnesbill

6a. Re: certain meats cause panting
From: Laurie Swanson
6b. Re: certain meats cause panting
From: carnesbill
6c. Re: certain meats cause panting
From: costrowski75

7a. Re: Chicken Backs in WI or Twin Cities area????
From: carnesbill

8a. Pork picnic
From: raffiangel2
8b. Re: Pork picnic
From: carnesbill
8c. Re: Pork picnic
From: costrowski75

9a. Are deer bones OK?
From: sfed57
9b. Re: Are deer bones OK?
From: Michelle R
9c. Re: Are deer bones OK?
From: costrowski75

10a. Nominate this Group for Best of Yahoo!
From: mrbob02140
10b. Re: Nominate this Group for Best of Yahoo!
From: Anntiga@aol.com

11a. What next?
From: swayzepetsitting
11b. Re: What next?
From: carnesbill

12a. Re: Where can I find green tripe?
From: Affordable Health Insurance

13a. Bad Breath
From: vickies_28

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. turkey insides...
Posted by: "Mallory Kwiatkowski" m_k_jesusfreak3@yahoo.com m_k_jesusfreak3
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 6:35 am ((PST))

can i give my dogs the turkey insides that i scoop out? I know i can, just checking.
also, this is my first thanksgiving turkey, is it goes horribly wrong-can i give it to the dogs and cats as long as it isn't burnt? i know it wouldn't be raw then, but you know.....don't want to waste.
mallory

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Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________

1b. Re: turkey insides...
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:17 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Mallory Kwiatkowski
<m_k_jesusfreak3@...> wrote:
>
> can i give my dogs the turkey insides that i scoop out?

Yes, feed the insides. DON'T FEED COOKED BONES under any
circumstances. If it goes all wrong (and I doubt it will, turkey is
pretty hard to mess up) you can pull the meat off the bones and feed
the meat only if you wish. The nutritional value will be lower but
it's ok to feed.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________

1c. Re: turkey insides...
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:26 am ((PST))

Mallory Kwiatkowski <m_k_jesusfreak3@...> wrote:
>
> can i give my dogs the turkey insides that i scoop out? I know i can,
just checking.
> also, this is my first thanksgiving turkey, is it goes horribly wrong-
can i give it to the dogs and cats as long as it isn't burnt? i know it
wouldn't be raw then, but you know.....don't want to waste.
*****
You should not cook the turkey with the neck and giblets still inside,
if that's what you were thinking of doing. Take the body parts out of
the cavity, feed those raw to your animals. The neck is only part of a
neck, actually; and if you have a gulper the neck may be just the right
size for stupid eating. I give hen necks to my cat. The other parts--
heart, gizzard, liver--can be doled out to each critter that wants some.

With cooked turkey, first off you are likely to have leftovers unless
you are feeding a horde; but leftover turkey is arguably tastier than
turkey at the first eating. Don't automatically feed the carcass
leftovers to your animals. Use what you can of it in sandwiches,
cassaroles, soup, etc. Secondly, too much cooked food, especially
cooked skin/fat, may cause significant digestive distress. If, after
all your efforts to use the bird up, you have remaining scraps, feed
them gradually, perhaps add them in small doses to the otherwise raw
food. You can always freeze leftovers for later use.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________

1d. Re: turkey insides...
Posted by: "Mallory Kwiatkowski" m_k_jesusfreak3@yahoo.com m_k_jesusfreak3
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:50 am ((PST))

well, i bought a 12 lb bird, for just me(and the critters), so i won't run out for myself, and i love leftovers. My bigger dogs are gulpers, so it would either go to the cats, or probably my rescued puppies.
i know cooked bones are a no-no, but i have to say, for 18 years, we set out the whole bird after we took off the meat we wanted to save. We put it in the yard for our outside cats(we lived in the country)and they always picked it clean...no one choked. I wouldn't do that for the dogs, but these little puppies have underdeveloped jaws and teeth(malnourished), and couldn't bite the bone anyway, but would they benefit from stripping the carcass(for jaw exercise)?
mallory

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Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

2a. Re: Big Meat?
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 6:35 am ((PST))

Hi Debi,

I didn't see anyone mention this...Dogs are basically wolves
anatomically/digestively (although bred to be different sizes and
slightly different shapes). Wolves hunt and kill large game in packs.
So they mostly eat a lot of red meat, supplemented with rabbits,
rodents, wild fowl, fish, etc. when available and necessary. I think
your dog would be happy for the inclusion of deer or meat from other
larger animals.

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Debi C" <dcole6@...> wrote:

> JRTs being small could in the wild only kill things like birds,
> rabbits, etc as opposed to cows or most deer.

Messages in this topic (5)
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________________________________________________________________________

3a. [rawfeedng]8 week old underweight rescue pups
Posted by: "Mallory Kwiatkowski" m_k_jesusfreak3@yahoo.com m_k_jesusfreak3
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 6:35 am ((PST))

i am fostering a litter of rescued pit bull puppies, 8 weeks old and VERY underweight. They were taken off their mom at 3 weeks because she was starving(they weren't feeding her) and they are all ribs and hip bones and about 3 lbs less than their sister whom i got at 3 weeks when they took the mom away(i fed her raw from that pt.).
what raw foods can i feed them to get them up to a safe weight? the two smallest i am really worried about. None can really handle bones, i think their teeth are underdeveloped too from being starved. I tried chunks of meat yesterday, with some success, still too much for those teeth i think. please help!!!
mallory

---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________

3b. Re: [rawfeedng]8 week old underweight rescue pups
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:50 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Mallory Kwiatkowski
<m_k_jesusfreak3@...> wrote:
>
> i am fostering a litter of rescued pit bull puppies, 8 weeks old and
VERY underweight.

Hi Mallory,
You can take a hammer/mallet and smash a chicken breast up to make it
easier for these poor little guys to chew. I would probably try a
little ground meat, too. HTH, KathyM

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

4a. Re: Want to start RAW feeding with Papillonþ
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 6:35 am ((PST))

Hi Annie,

It looks like you didn't get any responses yet from other tiny dog
owners. First, you're going to be feeding around 1/4# per day,
depending on whether your dog is under or overweight, and if 8# is
her ideal adult weight. I have a 23# Boston but have been doing this
for about a year and reading all the posts here. You could start
with something like chicken wings or drumsticks, or a rib-in breast.
If you feed a boney item like a wing or drumstick, make the next meal
meaty. Those are too boney to feed all the time. Game hens would
also be good. Cut a whole rabbit (or have it cut) into quarters.
You can do a couple lamb riblets with some added boneless meat, or a
hunk of bone-in fish. If something is too big for one meal, just
feed the rest for the next meal. You can have goat or lamb or pork
or turkey cut into smaller parts and let her feed off that part for a
day or two or three or more. You can re-freeze things and thaw them
again later. You can chop up boneless meat if necessary, but even
feeding a hunk of boneless will give some dental hygiene and physical
workout for her.

Let us know what you try and how things are going, and if you have
any more questions.

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "anniegness" <annieg91186@...>
wrote:
I just don't think I can give my little gal a huge chunk of meat
> and bone. What I was hoping for is any advice from people with
little
> dogs on what to feed.

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

5a. Re: Advice please-2 days on raw with variety of stools...
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:05 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Eddie Scholten <shirl-ed@...>
wrote:
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> We started our (8wks old today) GR pup on raw when we got him
> home 2 days ago.

> I wondered if the extra bone I've been giving (bony
> breast section) had helped to firm the stools we've seen, but
> the almost immediately following runny stools are a
> little confusing.

Stools don't have to be that messy. How many times a day are you
feeding him? I suggest 3 or 4 small meals a day at that age. I
also wouldn't feed any liver or any other organs for a month or so.
I can't picture in my mind the volume of food you are feeding but it
sounds like a lot for a little puppy that size.

Feed just the chicken meat and bones only in small amounts and I
think things will straighten out in a day or so. Keep feeding the
bonier parts and continue removing skin until his stools become more
firm.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

6a. Re: certain meats cause panting
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:05 am ((PST))

Hi Felicia,

I would suspect the added salt/solutions. I would try harder to get
unenhanced pork if you really want to feed it. There will be some
stores that will carry it or be able to order it. Tell them you have
food allergies or something if you want.

Another idea: is the pork really fatty compared to what else you feed?
If so, that could be making it harder to digest. Or, do you feed
bigger meals when you feed pork for some reason? Sometimes big meals
will do that.

Good luck,

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Felicia Kost <saphiradane@...> wrote:
>
> I was wondering if ceratin foods, such as pork would make a dog hot
and panting. My dogs have been raw fed for almost a year now. Every
time I feed a pork shoulder the dogs pant all night long.

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

6b. Re: certain meats cause panting
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:36 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Felicia Kost <saphiradane@...>
wrote:
>
> I feed a pork shoulder the dogs pant all night long.

> I have tried too buy pork without added salt or solutions.

Feed smaller meals when you feed pork. Sometimes you are feeding more
than it looks like. If there is a lot of fat around the outside, cut
it off. Don't worry about the enhancement, its not your problem.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

6c. Re: certain meats cause panting
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:56 am ((PST))

"carnesbill" <carnesw@...> wrote:
Don't worry about the enhancement, its not your problem.
*****
It's not your problem. It may be her problem. You have no way of
knowing whether it's her problem. The only way she can know if it is
her problem is to comparison feed.

Other than that, I agree: feed smaller meals, at least until the dog is
more accustomed to eating larger amounts. Not just with pork though,
with any meat that causes apparently inappropriate panting.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (7)
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________________________________________________________________________

7a. Re: Chicken Backs in WI or Twin Cities area????
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:05 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Morledzep@... wrote:
>
> Pat,
>
> why do you want chicken backs? whole chickens are cheap and easy
> to find and far more appropriate. and i might add, easily
> whacked into meal sized pieces.

I'm not Pat, but I buy chicken backs because they are about 1/4 the
price of whole chickens and they are already meal size. No whacking
necessary. I don't know that you can measure the aproriateness of
different parts of any animal. Feeding backs exclusively is not
appropriate but neither is feeding breasts exclusively. I prefer
buying my chickens in parts rather than whole because I don't want
to fool with the whacking.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (7)
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________________________________________________________________________

8a. Pork picnic
Posted by: "raffiangel2" snazgal@aol.com raffiangel2
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:11 am ((PST))

I was at the caribbean market yesterday in west palm beach...their
prices are just fabulous...there were lots of pork picnics which i've
fed to my 2 goldens over time..and I save the bones until I have 2 so
each can enjoy.
I saw a whole picnic cut up..bone and all....I didnt buy it because I
was fearful of the sharpness of the cut bone....was I overreacting or
should this not have been an issue?

Again..thanks to all of you who contribute your knowledge, experiences,
etc....You are a major reason for my Thankfulness....I feel so blessed
knowing what I do now, and that I'm doing the very best for my furries.
Happy Thanksgiving to all of you!!!!

PR in Delray Beach, Florida

Messages in this topic (3)
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8b. Re: Pork picnic
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:50 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "raffiangel2" <snazgal@...> wrote:
>
> I saw a whole picnic cut up..bone and all....I didnt buy it
> because I
> was fearful of the sharpness of the cut bone....was I
> overreacting or
> should this not have been an issue?

I'm not 100% sure I know what you are asking. Most Picnic roasts
are about 4 to 6 lbs. If that is what you are talking about, its
fine. Most of us feed that. If it's in smaller pieces like maybe
the size of a fist or smaller and each piece has bone in it, then I
would think twice about feeding that.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

8c. Re: Pork picnic
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 9:03 am ((PST))

"raffiangel2" <snazgal@...> wrote:
> I saw a whole picnic cut up..bone and all....I didnt buy it because I
> was fearful of the sharpness of the cut bone....was I overreacting or
> should this not have been an issue?
*****
IMO you did the right thing in not buying the cut up picnic. Since
your goldens do fine with the whole picnic (and congrats for figuring
that out!), there's little reason to feed them small hunks of anything,
much less small hunks of bone.

I can only imagine the wondrous meals the chopped pork will become, but
they'll be for human consumption, not dog.

Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
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________________________________________________________________________

9a. Are deer bones OK?
Posted by: "sfed57" sfed57@yahoo.ca sfed57
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:11 am ((PST))

I have rcently recieved a large bag of deer parts from a friend. The
neck is in there which still has quite a bit of meat on it. He also
gave me the ribs with hardly no meat on them. I was wondering if these
bones are ok for the dogs to chew on, or if they are like beef bones
and will wreck their teeth. The neck is a bit of a meal but the ribs
would just be for something to chew on for entertainment. They love to
chew on deer antlers for fun as well. I have two Siberians, 47 and 30
lbs.

Happy thanksgiving from Canada to all the americans out there!
Thanks, Shawna

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

9b. Re: Are deer bones OK?
Posted by: "Michelle R" crested_dog8@yahoo.com crested_dog8
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:50 am ((PST))

Hi Shawna, I am pretty new to raw and brand new to this list, but my good friend and mentor says deer bones are really hard. I do feed ALOT of venison tho, this am I had a shoulder with a good bit of meat on it, I cut a good bit of the meat off and fed that, then offered the bone with the remaining cartiledge and meat after theyd eaten their meaty breakfast. Kids loved chomping on what they could tear off. I didnt leave it with them for long and once it was mostly cleaned of meat, etc I took it away.
My friend/mentor has Bouviers and Id figure if deer bones are too hard for them, theyd be too hard for your guys. I KNOW my little toy dogs cant handle actually chewing them!
just my 2 cents,
Happy Thanksgiving to everyone!

Michelle Radcliff
Mengshi Chinese Cresteds
http://www.geocities.com/crested_dog8/mengshihome.html

____________________________________________________________________________________
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with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now.

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Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

9c. Re: Are deer bones OK?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 9:10 am ((PST))

"sfed57" <sfed57@...> wrote:
>
> I have rcently recieved a large bag of deer parts from a friend. The
> neck is in there which still has quite a bit of meat on it. He also
> gave me the ribs with hardly no meat on them. I was wondering if
these
> bones are ok for the dogs to chew on, or if they are like beef bones
> and will wreck their teeth. The neck is a bit of a meal but the ribs
> would just be for something to chew on for entertainment.
*****
I doubt barenaked deer ribs are anywhere as damaging as beef bones but
I'm not keen on doling out bare bones, period. However, if your dogs
process bony eatfests without digestive discomfort, then feed away.

Deer necks on the other hand are IMO delightful, delovely, delicious.
My retrievers (60-85lb) often eat them completely; if not, certainly
they clean off the meat and eat a goodly portion of the bone.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
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10a. Nominate this Group for Best of Yahoo!
Posted by: "mrbob02140" bob_roth@comcast.net mrbob02140
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:27 am ((PST))

Come on people... we are 10,000 strong! If this group is not one of
the "Best of Yahoo" I'll eat my hat! Chris, Bill and all the other
regulars that do SO much to support us all deserve the recongition! Not
to mention promoting the diet we have all learned is so much better for
our beloved pets. If we don't do something to stop the multi-billion
dollar pet foot industry from brainwashing pet owners into thinking
Dogs are omnivores, who will?

Bob

Messages in this topic (2)
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10b. Re: Nominate this Group for Best of Yahoo!
Posted by: "Anntiga@aol.com" Anntiga@aol.com anntiga
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:37 am ((PST))

I already voted for this group! It is by far the best!

My first PWD lived another six years because of the wonderful help, support,
and advice from the this great list.

Ann Gaskell
Norman (raw fed PWD since 12 weeks old, now 23 months old)
Angel Scamp (epileptic PWD who NEVER had another Gran Mal seizure after his
first raw meal at age seven years)
San Francisco Peninsula, CA, USA

**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

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Messages in this topic (2)
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________________________________________________________________________

11a. What next?
Posted by: "swayzepetsitting" skittles888@aol.com swayzepetsitting
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:27 am ((PST))

Happy Thanksgiving! My border collie has been on raw for a week and 2
days now. She is currently eating bone in, skin on chicken breasts
and backs. I feed her with my 3 cats 3X a day.

She is doing extremely well so far. She chews up the bones, no
problem. Her stools have been great the whole time. Nothing runny,
and her feces turn white within a day or two (from the bone, I
assume). Plus, she truly enjoys meal time now. :)

I am not sure what to add next. I really want to have her on 2
feedings a day, but I don't want the increased food per meal to make
her sick. How long should I wait before I condense the meals? As far
as the actual meals, I was thinking of keeping one meal either breast
or back and then the other could be 1/2 of a chicken quarter (I'm
pretty sure that's about 1/2 a lb and she needs almost a lb a day to
get down to her ideal weight). Does this sound alright? If the
chicken quarters work out, what should I do after that?

Thanks everyone!

Swayze and Bean Dip, Sniff, McGuirk, and Finnigan

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________

11b. Re: What next?
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:50 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "swayzepetsitting"
<skittles888@...> wrote:
>
> I am not sure what to add next. I really want to have her on 2
> feedings a day, but I don't want the increased food per meal
> to make
> her sick. How long should I wait before I condense the meals?

It depends on how old she is. If she is an adult, you should be
able to go to 2 meals a day now. Otherwise it depends on her age.

> If the
> chicken quarters work out, what should I do after that?

It's not critical but I suggest turkey next and a week or so later
at a pork roast cut to appropriate size. It sounds like everything
is going great right now.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (6)
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________________________________________________________________________

12a. Re: Where can I find green tripe?
Posted by: "Affordable Health Insurance" insuranceplan@sbcglobal.net affordablehealthinsurance69
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:38 am ((PST))

I actually find tripe at Polish Supermarkets all the time

marblekallie <marble@pipeline.com> wrote: Hi:

You won't find green tripe at a butcher's or a supermarket -- ever.
It is not for human consumption. http://www.hare-today.com/,

Prey4Pets, http://www.aplaceforpaws.com are among some who sell it for
pets. On the West Coast there is http://www.greentripe.com/

Philippa Jordan
New York City

> Where do you Oregon folks get yours?

Compare rates and even apply www.cheaphealthinsuranceplans.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
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13a. Bad Breath
Posted by: "vickies_28" vickies_28@yahoo.com vickies_28
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 9:05 am ((PST))

Hello All
My 8 mo old puppy has been on raw for almost 4 months now. He had
developed bad breath over the past month or so. It's not as horrible as
my other dog used to have when he was older, but it still kindda
unpleasant. I know that one of the advantages of feeding raw is that
dogs don't develop bad breath especially at such a young age. I do give
him bones and meat, organs, fish. He crunches the bones so he is using
his teeth. I did check in his mouth for anything weird, nothing all
looks good.
So what should I do? When I got him, he was fed kibble and didn't have
bad breath. Maybe it's just what dogs are supposed to smell like? I
also noticed very very tiny yellow deposits on his big theeth (canines,
right?).
Any advise will be appreciated.

Vickie

Messages in this topic (3)
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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12303

There are 15 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Question About Feeding High Food Drive Puppy
From: carnesbill

2a. Re: Where can I find green tripe?
From: carnesbill

3a. Re: Chicken Backs in WI or Twin Cities area????
From: carnesbill
3b. Re: Chicken Backs in WI or Twin Cities area????
From: chandler_baby
3c. Re: Chicken Backs in WI or Twin Cities area????
From: Morledzep@aol.com

4a. Re: certain meats cause panting
From: shefy gupta

5a. Re: Deer carcases
From: jmwise80

6.1. Re: Feeding Pork/puppies
From: Laurie Swanson

7a. Re: Chinese Crested gulper
From: Laurie Swanson

8.1. Re: Introduction
From: Giselle

9a. Re: TREATS for a new raw puppy
From: Giselle

10. Advice please-2 days on raw with variety of stools...
From: Eddie Scholten

11a. Re: anyone feeding raccoon? any problems or reasons not to?
From: Morledzep@aol.com

12. It's Thanksgiving ..
From: URSULA

13. Giselle, toy dogs, toothless, was; my introduction
From: Michelle R

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Re: Question About Feeding High Food Drive Puppy
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2007 7:53 pm ((PST))

A few thoughts here. First dogs don't chew like humans. We chew
our food to a mush then swallow it. Dogs merely rip/tear of a chunk
of meat that will fit down their throat and swallow it. They do not
waste time or energy chewing something that can be swallowed. This
is normal and not dangerous. They are capable of swallowing
amazingly large pieces of meat/bone.

I wonder if what you are seeing is normal dog eating and since it is
not as "manerly" as human eating, you are mistaking it as something
that should not be done. "Almost choking" is not the same
as "choking" To me, "almost choking" means swallowing something so
large that a human could not possibly swallow. This would be normal
for a dog.

If he is swallowing fine, acting healthy, full of energy, pooping on
some kind of semi regular schedule, I wouldn't worry. It's not
unusual for a dog (particularly a newly switched dog) to
occasionally swallow a piece that is too large, bring it back up,
chew it some and re-swallow it. This too can appear to be choking
but it is normal.

I honestly don't think your dog has a problem. I suggest you give
your pup his food, stand back out of the way, don't hover, and let
him eat. You hovering around and sometimes trying to take food away
may be exacerabing your problem.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (3)
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2a. Re: Where can I find green tripe?
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2007 8:02 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "geraldinebutterfield"
<gbutterflied@...> wrote:
>
> I live in Albany, Or. and have called the grocery stores and
> butchers and can't locate green tripe!

It's illegal to have green tripe in the same building as human
consumable food so you won't find it in any place that sells human
food. I know there are places on the internet you can get it and also
slaughterhouses. Personally I don't feed it so I can't really help
you with sources.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (3)
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3a. Re: Chicken Backs in WI or Twin Cities area????
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:08 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "windmilldairy" <drwindmill@...>
wrote:
>
> I have posted in the past with questions about chicken backs
> and have been trying to locate a
> source to buy them in bulk cases in WI or the Twin
> Cities area....Any help would be
> appreciated.

I have always had good luck at small independent grocery stores, NOT
the chain stores. Go to the store and talk to them in person.
Don't bother calling. You must be in the store. Explain to them
that you will be buying them regularly. It's not a one time thing.
Explain they can just add your case of backs to their regular order
and tell you when to pick them up and you'll be there. They won't
have to unpack or wrap or anything. Just hold in the cooler until
you get there that day. It's good easy money for them and most
small stores will be glad to help you once they understand how
little work it is for them.

Don't bother with the chain stores. They just aren't set up for
orders like that. They have no way to hanle them.

I also order turkey necks, turkey wings and beef heart at the same
store. You can order most any animal parts this way. I can even
order whole lamb from my grocer but I haven't yet.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (6)
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3b. Re: Chicken Backs in WI or Twin Cities area????
Posted by: "chandler_baby" chandler_baby@yahoo.com chandler_baby
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:09 pm ((PST))

Hi Pat,

In the St Paul area I would check in the Asian grocery stories down on
and near University, in the state capital area.

I'm not sure you really want chicken backs but I think you should be
able to find some good things down there.

Also, the Wedge in Minneapolis should have what you are looking for,
their chickens are free range.

Roxane

> I have posted in the past with questions about chicken backs and have
been trying to locate a
> source to buy them in bulk cases in WI or the Twin Cities area....Any
help would be
> appreciated.

Messages in this topic (6)
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3c. Re: Chicken Backs in WI or Twin Cities area????
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 1:07 am ((PST))

In a message dated 11/21/2007 7:20:14 PM Pacific Standard Time,
drwindmill@gmail.com writes:

I have posted in the past with questions about chicken backs and have been
trying to locate a
source to buy them in bulk cases in WI or the Twin Cities area....Any help
would be
appreciated.

Pat,

why do you want chicken backs? whole chickens are cheap and easy to find and
far more appropriate. and i might add, easily whacked into meal sized
pieces.

Catherine R.

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Messages in this topic (6)
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4a. Re: certain meats cause panting
Posted by: "shefy gupta" shefy7@yahoo.com shefy7
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:09 pm ((PST))

wow that's interesting...

i know there are certain "hot" and "cold" foods...it would be nice to get more info. if anyone knows about this issue...?

snowy sometimes pants after eating as well...i've never taken notice as to after what though..

shefy and snowy

spricketysprock <jess.hamway@gmail.com> wrote:
I don't know what's causing this, but logic would say to simply stop
feeding your dogs pork. With enough variety, pork isn't a necessity at
all.

Jess & Toby

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Felicia Kost wrote:
>
> I was wondering if ceratin foods, such as pork would make a dog hot
and panting. My dogs have been raw fed for almost a year now. Every
time I feed a pork shoulder the dogs pant all night long.

---------------------------------
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5a. Re: Deer carcases
Posted by: "jmwise80" jmwise80@yahoo.com jmwise80
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:10 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Pug Lady" <showpugs@...> wrote:
>
> A man that processes deer is giving me two deer (spine and ribs with
> quite a bit of meat still attached) but g do not know how to feed
> these big things! I have three pugs and a weim. Can i just give them
> the entire thing in the back yard? Thanks in advance!
> rebeca
>
> --
> Rebeca and The Pugs
> www.DoolittleAcres.com
>

*****If they don't have food aggression problems then that sounds like
a great idea. My jack russell has been working on a deer spine for a
few days now. I give him the whole thing and then take it away when I
think he has had enough. Good find!

Michael Wise

Messages in this topic (2)
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6.1. Re: Feeding Pork/puppies
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:28 pm ((PST))

Hi Ceasar and Yassy,

Yassy, I think you're thinking of the calculation sometimes used with
puppies which is 10% of current weight at a certain age. It's easier
to just always feed about 2-3% of estimated adult weight, but there may
be times when they need more or less. Just watch their weight.
Puppies are usually fed 3-4 times a day when really young, decreasing
the number of feedings when they seem ready to digest more food at one
time, until they're getting fed about once a day at around a year old.
But some people feed adults 2 times a day, and some feed every other
day or so. Caesar, you can search the archives for puppy info, or let
us know if you have more questions.

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Yasuko herron
<sunshine_annamaria@...> wrote:
>
> >Obviously, the Boxer is still growing. Currently weighs about 60lbs.
Should i be feeding it the"regular" 3% of its weight or should i be
feeding a bit more since its still growing and gradually increase as
its weight increases?
>
> Hi,Ceasar.If I remember right,puppy gets fed 10% of adult estimated
weight and fed 3 times orso throughout the day.
>
> and for adult dog,they gets fed 2-3% of ideal weight 1-2 times a
day.
>

Messages in this topic (44)
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7a. Re: Chinese Crested gulper
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:28 pm ((PST))

With these types of eaters, you need to feed bigger hunks. Like a
chicken quarter or a lamb shank or a big hunk of pork neck with a bit
of boneless meat, or something. If that's too big for one meal, let
him eat some and then take it up and feed the remainder for the next
meal. Having the food presented more in its original form, in a bigger
hunk, will make him take his time and work on it a bit more. If you
need to feed a piece of boneless meat that is just about
gulping/choking size, then you might want to cut it up into smaller
pieces. Beef ribs can be good for dental hygiene/workout even tho he
can't eat the bone. Keep your eyes open for goat or lamb or pork or
rabbit or turkey, too.

Laurie

Messages in this topic (4)
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8.1. Re: Introduction
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2007 11:18 pm ((PST))

Hi, Michelle!
You don't need a grinder, nope, not at all!

Grinding up bone and serving up ground or diced up meats does a disservice
to your dogs. Even if they are tiny, or have missing teeth or misaligned
bites, they can learn how to crunch and munch quite large meaty parts and
softer bones. Some of the marvelous advantages of species appropriate raw
feeding is not just the improved inner health, outer appearance, sweet
breath and smaller and less frequent poops. Prey model raw fed dogs get
mental, dental, physical and emotional benefits from engaging with, and
conquering, complicated food.

There's a large number of members with small and toy breeds and dogs with
physical anomalies that challenge proper canine eating. I'm sure that many
will weigh in here with their tips and experiences.

Because prey model raw suggests feeding approximately 80% meat (muscle,
skin, fat, fur, feathers, connective tissues and hard working organs such as
heart, gizzards, tongue, tripe)
and only 10% EDIBLE bone, its not too hard to provide enough bone that the
little guys can manage. With their small size, even the gristle/cartilage
from the bone ends of lamb, goat and pork can provide that easily. And the
soft bones of chicken, rabbits and fish can be entirely consumed.

Dogs don't need yogurt, or any dairy. Once weaned, dogs usually become
lactose intolerant. And cow's, or even goat's milk isn't species
appropriate. ; )

Its better to think about, and plan for, feeding some meaty parts with a
little edible bone, and lots of meatymeat meals with no bone, rather than
feeding bony parts, like turkey necks - or the 'RMB'- which aren't. Meaty, I
mean.

The usual suggestion is to feed about 2-3% of the dog's estimated ideal
adult body weight. But tiny dogs usually need more, often 4-5% of EIABW or
even more, if they are very active.

Start with whole chickens. This will get you started;

*http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/141374 *

*post # 141374*

A few archived posts from owners of toy breeds;
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/msearch?query=chihuahua+papillon&submit=Search&charset=UTF-8
*http://tinyurl.com/3e5ywe*

Some links to informational websites;

http://www.rawlearning.com/rawfaq.html

http://www.rawlearning.com/supplementmyths.html

http://www.rawfed.com/myths/index.html

http://rawfeddogs.net/Recipes

http://rawfeddogs.net/FAQlist
Happy Turkey Day!
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

On Nov 21, 2007 8:26 PM, Michelle Radcliff <crested_dog8@yahoo.com> wrote:

> MODERATORS NOTE:SIGN YOUR MAILS!!
>
> Hello, I am new here. A friend of mine has introduced me to the
> benefits of feeding raw. I have Chinese Cresteds, and have many
> things to learn about the particular of feeding this new stuff, but
> all my kids seem to think I've gone nuts and cant believe they get to
> eat this stuff every day. :-)
>

> <snip>
>

> Also, I know the amounts to
> feed vary per dog, type, activity, metabolism, etc and etc...but what
> is the general goal? I think I read somewhere a certain % of their
> ideal adult body weight?? What do some of you do? if the % is
> correct, what % do you folks suggest?
>
> Thanks much and I look forward to learning more from everyone willing
> to share!
> Happy Thanksgiving to everyone!
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (358)
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9a. Re: TREATS for a new raw puppy
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 12:45 am ((PST))

Hi, Jay!
While my dog, Bea ( almost 7yo Newfy) is 'all raw' fed, and has
been since I rescued her at age 2, I use what ever treats that work for the
use at hand. Treats are a very small part of the diet, and if you need to
train a pup, or older dog, and use do use a larger amount of their daily
portion, you can make raw treats. I use a mix of raw, cooked and 'people
food' treats to make training fun and exciting.

Treats, even training treats for a large breed dog, need not be huge - the
treats Bea gets are mostly the size of a baby pea, and believe me, she loves
to get them!

I feed chopped raw and cooked heart and gizzards (roast or simmer in a
little water) and sometimes whiz up some heart or gizzards with liver, raw
or cooked and put the paste into a food tube. I also use dried salmon,
whiting or sardines sometimes. I use cheese shreds or cubes, diced hot dogs
('uncooked' or dried in the mic), canned chicken shreds, occasionally even
squeeze cheese.

I do avoid processed 'dog treats' - since the massive pet food recalls
earlier this year, and the ongoing recalls of even 'natural' treats from
China, I will not ever feed anything like this ever again. While I'm not
crazy about feeding grain products to dogs, I will sometimes use those
cheesy baked Goldfish snacks as training treats - they're tiny and Bea loves
them. Perhaps doling out a bag (or small plastic snack container) of these
or something similar to each of your children per day for them to treat the
pup with would work. I'd pass them out to each kid once a day, show them how
to ask pup to sit for a treat and let them treat the pup until their daily
portion is gone. That way, you have control over how much the pup gets, and
if the kids eat the treats themselves, well, no harm done! Older children
can join in with you when you train the pup and be trusted with other
treats, while you supervise.

BTW, you aren't planning to continue to feed Newfpup on just ground chicken
backs and tripe forever, are you?
Protein variety, edible bone, organs, and whole prey or large parts to
wrestle with are important to any dog's health. There's lots of info on this
list on feeding a raw species appropriate whole prey model diet - take a
look in the archives and files.
One to begin with;

*http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/141374 *

*post # 141374*

TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

I need some help as to what are appropriate treats for an 8 week old
> Great Dane puppy already eating all raw? The breeder has him eating
> ground chicken backs and green tripe. Since this is my first dog going
> all raw I really don't know what to give him for treats.
>
> *<<<< What can I have on hand so my kids don't hand him any Oreo's? >>>>
> *
> Thank you
>
> Jay
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (8)
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10. Advice please-2 days on raw with variety of stools...
Posted by: "Eddie Scholten" shirl-ed@hotmail.com shirley11964
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 1:07 am ((PST))

Hello everyone,

We started our (8wks old today) GR pup on raw when we got him home 2 days ago. He seems to really enjoy the chicken (leg quarters, bony breast sections (not with skin) and a whole, if very small, chicken heart (fed yesterday straight from the freezer and eaten in seconds). This morning he's had a small amount (approx 1tbs) of fresh liver and a bony breast section with a larger meatier meal of chicken planned for a little later. All seems well with our pup, Floris is his name, but his stools are varied and I just wanted to confirm that they appear normal considering the change of diet (breeder fed kibble).

First stools we saw on day 1 (after first raw meal) were runny and a mid-to-dark brown colour and extremely foul-smelling.
Later stools (evening) were more formed/soft, dark and very smelly again.

Day 2 (yesterday) morning stools were very runny and pale beige/brown coloured, then a few later stools were like chocolate sauce, again very smelly. One stool, last night, was again much more solid/soft and dark, and less smelly (approximately 30 hours into raw). Then later again, by only around 40mins another stool was very runny and almost clear/watery and very smelly.

Day 3 (today) morning stools were first like chocolate sauce but very much less smelly and a short while later (on the walk) the stools were very runny and a quite pale, almost greenish/brown colour.

I wondered if the extra bone I've been giving (bony breast section) had helped to firm the stools we've seen, but the almost immediately following runny stools are a little confusing.

Floris is drinking what seems to me to be an appropriate amount of water (obviously I don't know yet how much water he will take on average, but I'm happy with the amount he's taking right now) and is happy and content.

Any advice will be most welcome as there is some concern here (not with me) that if the stools don't become more 'normal' after a while, that we must stop with raw (and I really don't want to stop and I have explained that stools will always vary on a raw diet depending on what meat was eaten (as per a recent posting I read).

Thanks so much for all the advice so far...(and sorry if this is 'off topic' at all).

Shirley (and Floris in Holland) .

_________________________________________________________________
Nooit meer offline met Windows Live Messenger op je mobiele telefoon
http://www.getlivemobile.nl/

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11a. Re: anyone feeding raccoon? any problems or reasons not to?
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 1:07 am ((PST))

In a message dated 11/21/2007 11:00:46 AM Pacific Standard Time,
sktnurse@yahoo.com writes:

I may have a new source for skinned raccoons and dont know of any
reasons not to feed it. these will be wild hunted raccoons. would be
great if could feed, price is right. HA. what do yo think?

Sherry,

i won't feed raccoon, even if i could get it, to my dogs. Raccoons are
carnivores and i won't feed carnivores to carnivores.

Catherine R.

**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
products.
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12. It's Thanksgiving ..
Posted by: "URSULA" UCL@NEUF.FR ursula21c
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 4:43 am ((PST))

I want to say thank you for the expert, friendly advice shown in this
valuable group. I could not have survived the raw feeding without your
help. Through all the ups, downs and disasters, you have never failed
to help us through.
Merci mille fois
Ursula, Andrew,(husband), Henri (black lab), Cassis (black lab)
Salies de Bearn, France

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13. Giselle, toy dogs, toothless, was; my introduction
Posted by: "Michelle R" crested_dog8@yahoo.com crested_dog8
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 6:03 am ((PST))

Giselle, WOW that is a wealth of information, thank you sooooo much!! My problem with my kids is not that they are small (they are small, but they eat like they weigh 150#s HA ha) but I have a few who simply have no teeth. The hairless Chinese Cresteds (older especially) quite often have poor dentition, its a genetic thing, hair and teeth are linked. I have one older hairless bitch who has about 5 teeth scattered thru out her mouth, thats it. Her bite is fine, she has a scissors bite, just nothing much in there to back it up. LOL So while she has no problem wolfing down any slices or cuts or ground offered, she has literally nothing to gnaw bone or tear meatymeat with. It is with specifically her in mind I bring up grinding, otherwise, she just will not get all of the nutritional benefits my more toothy Cresteds can from this diet.

Michelle Radcliff
Mengshi Chinese Cresteds
http://www.geocities.com/crested_dog8/mengshihome.html

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