Feed Pets Raw Food

Saturday, August 25, 2007

[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11958

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: HELP! PLEASE ANSWER THE BOTTOM QUESTIONS, PLEASE!
From: Yasuko herron
1b. Re: HELP! PLEASE ANSWER THE BOTTOM QUESTIONS, PLEASE!
From: coriowen
1c. Re: HELP! PLEASE ANSWER THE BOTTOM QUESTIONS, PLEASE!
From: cmhausrath

2a. Slippery Elm powder-Cats?
From: Penelope Quillen
2b. Re: Slippery Elm powder-Cats?
From: Giselle
2c. Re: Slippery Elm powder-Cats?
From: Casey Post

3a. Re: stumped my vet
From: Rebecca Little
3b. Re: stumped my vet
From: darkstardog
3c. Re: stumped my vet
From: Sandee Lee
3d. Re: stumped my vet
From: Morledzep@aol.com
3e. Re: stumped my vet
From: darkstardog
3f. Re: stumped my vet
From: steph.sorensen

4a. Re: The Constipation has started...
From: mandajenwalker
4b. Re: The Constipation has started...
From: Sandee Lee
4c. Re: The Constipation has started...
From: Laurie Swanson
4d. Re: The Constipation has started...
From: tottime47
4e. Re: The Constipation has started...
From: mandajenwalker
4f. Re: The Constipation has started...
From: mandajenwalker
4g. Re: The Constipation has started...
From: mandajenwalker

5a. Re: Slippery Elm powder
From: Giselle

6a. Why not to feed raw with kibble
From: ptmagi
6b. Re: Why not to feed raw with kibble
From: tottime47
6c. Re: Why not to feed raw with kibble
From: costrowski75
6d. Re: Why not to feed raw with kibble
From: cmhausrath
6e. Re: Why not to feed raw with kibble
From: cmhausrath


Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Re: HELP! PLEASE ANSWER THE BOTTOM QUESTIONS, PLEASE!
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 2:51 pm ((PDT))

>We feed probiotic to all our horses and it comes in a powder form for them,

HI,Cori. I have gotten powder probiotic before and,when my dog had poo prob,I used it but it worked not good on mine.Something in it did not agree with my dog and it made much worse.

So, I am currently using liquid probiotic from

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=823&Ntt=digestive%20conditioner&Ntk=All&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Np=1&pc=1&N=0&Nty=1


For mine,it worked like bang! I am happy with that. I don't give probiotic daily basis though.Only when my dog has poo prob,I use it.

Others on this list are using Slippery Elm powder and,I am planning to use it next time or after finishing up this bottle just to see which works better on mine.

I don't know if you were following my posts from couple of days ago,but my dog got quite bit of doggy treats from neighbor and incidentaly,that day was second day from introducing her new protin Duck and next morning,she had soft poo wrapped in mucous and afternoon,watery poo...

She usually go poo once a day,but from that day on,she took me for poo at 2am etc and it was so bad.

So,after I saw mucous poo, next time I fed Duck ,I fed without fat skin with probiotic and she woke me up 2am for goey poo and so, I was wondering if probiotic is improving her system or not but,after 1 day without pooing,today,she had nice pinky sized poo.Still end was sort of wet side but much improved.

I am thinking,too much fat from neighbors' treat andfat from Duck made worst poo history in her rawfed days.

So,it is your choice but,probiotic or Slippery Elms should work fine for watery or uncontrolable diarrhea.

If you are just having trouble with looser stool,add more bone to it and it will be ok.

>can feeding these girls some plain yogurt work just as well

I think that too much diary also cause digestive prob too.In fact,probiotic is non diary and just friendly bacteria in it.Mine has to be kept in fridge.If you are feeding Yogurt,stop feeding it. It may also help getting your dog better.

>she proceeded to eat the whole thing. The older one just doesn't seem herself at all.

If you go back list archive,you will find plenty of maltiple dogs' feeding ways.Unfortunately,I have 1 dog only so,I cannot give any suggestion on that other than,if your dog swallow meat,thengo get the whole chicken and cut up to portion and feed.

That would prevent whole swallowing gulper and better to feed that way not parts by parts.

>She seems dull

My dog palettewas also seemed dull (she has never experienced this bad diarrhea after switching to raw),so,I just gave her and make sure she drinks water well because dehydration is not good.

Just let her rest and let her take nap till she gets fine.My guess isthat if you had to take your dog out number of times,the dog could not sleep well and maybe tired too.

Today,my dog is perky,and looks normal palette.

If diarrhea was real real bad,then, you considar fasting them and let the tummy rest is good too .

yassy


---------------------------------
Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (13)
________________________________________________________________________

1b. Re: HELP! PLEASE ANSWER THE BOTTOM QUESTIONS, PLEASE!
Posted by: "coriowen" COwen98@aol.com coriowen
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 5:48 pm ((PDT))

***MODERATOR'S NOTE: PLEASE REMEMBER TO SIGN YOUR MESSAGES.***

Catherine,
I was not intending to yell, I was just trying to pinpoint what I
needed because I tend to get long winded on posts and usually give
way too much info. I realize this is a free site and I was and am
thankful for all info from everyone. It's not just frustration it's
painful to watch your dogs feel uncomfortable especially one that is
usually always upbeat and right now she is not, at all. I just went
through losing my 14 year old Dachshund in July to a looong battle
with back surgery and then seizures and it was stress times 100! Her
last day was so incredibley painful we finally had to make the
decision to let her go after all those weeks of her and us fighting
to help her make it. She was VERY healthy before her back went out
in May and then in a matter of 2 1/2 weeks she went down so, I am
getting a bit concerned and upset seeing my two year old not only not
be able to have much of a bowel movement but also not be herself.
Forgive my hastiness and pressure it has been a tough summer and I am
ready for them to feel good and be HEALTHY. BTW, this same Dachshund
broke out with a terrible staph infection during the time of my
elderly Dachshund's illness and she has had itchy skin and goopy eyes
ever since, so I thought even after being treated with antibiotics
and visibly the staph was gone, she never came back to 100% so I was
getting worried that I might have done this to her while her immune
system is down. I just get very worried about my girls. Like I have
said before, my big girls, Mastiff and Doberman, are doing great on
the changed diet! =)
Cori


> ****i understand your frustration.. but no good can come from
yelling at
> folks that are trying to help you. >
> We are all willing to help, but we aren't getting paid to do so,
this list
> and participation on this list is entirely voluntary. No one here
owes you
> anything.
>
> Olga was very nice and very patient with you, and she asked for
what you are
> feeding. I'm going to ask the same thing, i don't have access to
the list
> archives to find the post that you claim is there.. and i don't
have time to
> look, even if i could access it.
>
> If you want help, it's just easier to answer the questions.
>


Messages in this topic (13)
________________________________________________________________________

1c. Re: HELP! PLEASE ANSWER THE BOTTOM QUESTIONS, PLEASE!
Posted by: "cmhausrath" cmhausrath@yahoo.com cmhausrath
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 6:13 pm ((PDT))

"coriowen" <COwen98@...> wrote:

> I just went
> through losing my 14 year old Dachshund in July to a looong battle
> with back surgery and then seizures and it was stress times 100!
<snips>
> I am
> getting a bit concerned and upset
<more snips>
> BTW, this same Dachshund
> broke out with a terrible staph infection during the time of my
> elderly Dachshund's illness and she has had itchy skin and goopy
eyes
> ever since,


Cori, this might not be your problem at all, but I wanted to at least
raise it as a possibility: you seem to have had a very stressed-out
summer (and I'm very sorry for your loss), and it seems to have
already affected your 2-yr-old Dachshund (the staph infection). I
also go through high-stress periods, and I have FINALLY, after
putting myself through a lot of misery (and expense at the vet's),
learned that MY stress really affects my dog. As in, I get a bit
stressed, he senses it and gets tense himself. His stools get loose
for no reason I can see (since I'm always initially blind to the
stress level) ... I get more stressed because I'm worried about
what's wrong with him ... he starts waking me up in the middle of the
night for potty runs ... I get really stressed about his digestive
stress ... and so on. It is NOT a pretty picture. Add to that sleep
deprivation (both of ours) from running outside all night, and it's
really ugly.

It might be worth at least investigating -- it may be that relaxing a
bit could really help BOTH of you.

-- sandy & griffin (a big doofus, but a sensitive doofus nonetheless)

Messages in this topic (13)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

2a. Slippery Elm powder-Cats?
Posted by: "Penelope Quillen" copperquillpen@hotmail.com copperquillpen1958
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 2:52 pm ((PDT))



Can this Slippery Elm be used with cats, also? Or is there something
different that should be used? Penelope L. Quillen
8/25/07 Thank-you.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

2b. Re: Slippery Elm powder-Cats?
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 4:05 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Penelope!
Dunno.
I've never had the need to dose a cat with SEBP.

You can join raw cat at: http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawcat/
and ask them.

You could maybe ask at; http://fiascofarm.com/ especially if you're
planning to order from her.

Might be a job getting them to eat it, or wrestling it into them. ; )
Although, my mother's old Siamese would eat anything if you mashed it
up into sardines or mackerel.
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> Can this Slippery Elm be used with cats, also? Or is there something
> different that should be used? Penelope L. Quillen
> 8/25/07 Thank-you.


Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

2c. Re: Slippery Elm powder-Cats?
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 4:46 pm ((PDT))

>
> Can this Slippery Elm be used with cats, also? Or is there something
> different that should be used?

Penelope,

Yes, it can -

http://www.felinecrf.org/holistic_treatments.htm#SEB

But one should always look to see if dietary tweaking is needed for long
term solutions.

Casey

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

3a. Re: stumped my vet
Posted by: "Rebecca Little" pbgs@delhitel.net canucme278
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 2:53 pm ((PDT))

Just so you are aware its german shepHERD.
Rebecca Little
Peakes Brook German Shepherds
http://sites.centralpets.com/mammals/peakesbrookgsd/index.html


From: "DebiC" <dcole6@satx.rr.com>
> Then I asked her the difference between German Shepards and Wolves. She
said one was Canis lupus familiaris (Domestic dog) and the other was Canis
lupus nubilus (Great Plains Wolf)
> I then asked her what the difference in their nutritional needs. She said
Wolves are carnivores and dogs are omnivores. I asked her if she looked at
a skeleton if she could tell the difference between a GS and a wolf. She
said probably not. Then I asked why is one an omnivore and one a carnivore,
they're both canis lupus. She couldn't answer that.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________

3b. Re: stumped my vet
Posted by: "darkstardog" darkstardog@charter.net darkstardog
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 2:54 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee Lee" <rlee@...> wrote:
>

> Actually the gray wolf is canis lupis familiaris, just in case you
want to continue this conversation with your vet!! :))
>

I don't think that's correct. The dog is a different subspecies from
the gray wolf.

Marty

Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________

3c. Re: stumped my vet
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 3:30 pm ((PDT))

Ooops...sorry, Debi. I did look this up but misread! The gray wolf is
Canis lupus, dogs are a subspecies Canis lupus familiaris.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Sandee Lee" <rlee@plix.com>
>
> Actually the gray wolf is canis lupis familiaris, just in case you want to
> continue this conversation with your vet!! :))

Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________

3d. Re: stumped my vet
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 3:48 pm ((PDT))


In a message dated 8/25/2007 1:55:22 PM Pacific Standard Time,
darkstardog@charter.net writes:

I don't think that's correct. The dog is a different subspecies from
the gray wolf.



Marty,

nope.. grey wolves and domesticated dogs are the exact same species.. all
domesticated dogs are just selectively inbred grey wolves.

Catherine R.

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________

3e. Re: stumped my vet
Posted by: "darkstardog" darkstardog@charter.net darkstardog
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 5:31 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Morledzep@... wrote:
>
>>In a message dated 8/25/2007 1:55:22 PM Pacific Standard Time,
>> darkstardog@... writes:
>>>I don't think that's correct. The dog is a different subspecies
>>>from the gray wolf.
>
>
> nope.. grey wolves and domesticated dogs are the exact same
>species.. all domesticated dogs are just selectively inbred grey
>wolves.
>


I didn't say they weren't the same species - I said they weren't the
same subspecies.

But I said it wrong. I shouldn't have said dogs are a different
subspecies from the *grey wolf* because I guess that name goes for the
whole species. But I think it's the case that dogs are different
subspecies from wolves categorized by subspecies, such as Canis lupus
lupus (the European grey wolf) or Canis lupus lycaon or Canis
lupus nubilis etc, in whatever way the species Canis lupus is
currently classified. Maybe it's more complicated than I think though.

Marty


Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________

3f. Re: stumped my vet
Posted by: "steph.sorensen" steph.sorensen@yahoo.com steph.sorensen
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 6:21 pm ((PDT))

You know, considering that most species are split into subspecies due
to geographical location alone, I am so surprised that someone with
an extensive scientific education wouldn't question that dietary
requirements may be similar in these two subspecies, since so many
other species that have subspecies fall into a similar pattern
anatomically and in regard to their biological requirements.

-Steph
w/ Scarlet, Lucy and Minkey (the kitty)

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "DebiC" <dcole6@...> wrote:
>
> Raw Feeding for dogs and cats!I have a very nice vet who insists
that dogs are omnivores. I don't know where this came from but she
really believes it.
>
> Then I asked her the difference between Jack Russells and Gerrnan
Shepards in their nutritional needs. She said mainly the amount.
They both need the same foods.
>
> Then I asked her the difference between German Shepards and
Wolves. She said one was Canis lupus familiaris (Domestic dog) and
the other was Canis lupus nubilus (Great Plains Wolf)
> I then asked her what the difference in their nutritional needs.
She said Wolves are carnivores and dogs are omnivores. I asked her
if she looked at a skeleton if she could tell the difference between
a GS and a wolf. She said probably not. Then I asked why is one an
omnivore and one a carnivore, they're both canis lupus. She couldn't
answer that.
>
> I didn't actually win, but I set her thinking.
>
> Debi Cole
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>


Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

4a. Re: The Constipation has started...
Posted by: "mandajenwalker" walker1031@chartermi.net mandajenwalker
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 2:59 pm ((PDT))

Yes, Sandee,
I do feed twice a day. Is it too early to introduce other meats?
Such as pork? She seems to be taking very well to it. Louie and hank
on the other hand are not taking well to the diet in general. Louie
can't comprehend how to eat it. He was good the first day and after
that he tries to eat it for a minute and goes and lays down and leaves
the meat in the bowl. Hank too!
Thanks Sandee,
Mandy


--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee Lee" <rlee@...> wrote:
>
> Mandy,
>
> Are you feeding twice a day? If so, feed one meal with bone, one
without.
> I would feed just meat for her next meal.
>
> You can add a little bit of organs but don't overdo it or you may end up
> with the opposite problem! :)
>
> Sandee & the Dane Gang
>
> From: "mandajenwalker" <walker1031@...>
>
>
> My female bull terrier (Evie) has been eating
> chicken quarters and is now pooping very hard little nuggets. While
> pooping these little nuggets she is crying as if it hurts her.
> So my question is, do I get organs and give her a little while cutting
> back on the chicken quarter? Or do I give her boneless while
> eliminating the quarter for a little bit and maybe adding a little
> organ?
>


Messages in this topic (9)
________________________________________________________________________

4b. Re: The Constipation has started...
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 3:34 pm ((PDT))

Mandy,

I don't see any problem with adding in a bit of pork as long as she is doing
well. There is no magic length of time to feed chicken. If she seems to be
digesting well, try it.

Have you tried warming the food, cutting into it, quickly searing,
sprinkling with Parmesan, etc. for those guys? Might make it more
appetizing.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "mandajenwalker" <walker1031@chartermi.net>
I do feed twice a day. Is it too early to introduce other meats?
Such as pork? She seems to be taking very well to it. Louie and hank
on the other hand are not taking well to the diet in general. Louie
can't comprehend how to eat it. He was good the first day and after
that he tries to eat it for a minute and goes and lays down and leaves
the meat in the bowl. Hank too!

Messages in this topic (9)
________________________________________________________________________

4c. Re: The Constipation has started...
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 3:37 pm ((PDT))

Hi Mandy,

Some dogs need help figuring out this new stuff is food. You might
want to try feeding on the floor, on a towel or blanket, or outside--
instead of a bowl. That might be confusing. Sorry if you've said what
you're feeding already, but I can't remember. If it's anything other
than a bit of organ or some chopped boneless meat, a bowl isn't the
best. Most of what I feed wouldn't work in a bowl. My dog has to move
it around, hold it down with his paws, etc. You can also slice into
the meat, making it more appealing, or change the presentation in some
way. If they still don't get it, you might sear it a little or add
parmesan cheese or something. But I'd try the other ideas first.

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "mandajenwalker" <walker1031@...>
wrote:
Louie
> can't comprehend how to eat it. He was good the first day and after
> that he tries to eat it for a minute and goes and lays down and leaves
> the meat in the bowl. Hank too!


Messages in this topic (9)
________________________________________________________________________

4d. Re: The Constipation has started...
Posted by: "tottime47" tottime@aol.com tottime47
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 3:38 pm ((PDT))

Hi Mandy,

Since she's new to raw, I'll vote for the cutting back on bone..

Just don't cut out all the bone at once. If you feed her twice a day
make one boneless and one about half the usuall amount
and if you feed once a day then every other day bone, maybeabout 1/2
the usual amount.......

Make sure she has plenty of water to drink and if she isn't drinking
as much and you can feed in the house add a little to some of her
meat so it extra juicy.

I cut a few little chuncks off and put in a bowl and add water as
mine don't seem to drink enough on their own and I've noticed their
stools seem drier when I don't.

Hope this helps.....

Carol, Charkee & Moli


This is day 3 of raw. My female bull terrier (Evie) has been eating
chicken quarters and is now pooping very hard little nuggets. While
pooping these little nuggets she is crying as if it hurts her.
Mandy

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "mandajenwalker" <walker1031@...>
wrote:


Messages in this topic (9)
________________________________________________________________________

4e. Re: The Constipation has started...
Posted by: "mandajenwalker" walker1031@chartermi.net mandajenwalker
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 6:20 pm ((PDT))

Thanks Carol,
I appreciate all the advice from everyone.
I am going to try giving all the dogs a little chicken breast and I
tried pork. I hope that helps. Like ya said a little less bone to
start out with.
I have noticed that she isn't drinking as much water since she started
raw. I will try that too and see if that and cutting back on the bone
will help.
Thanks again,
Mandy

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "tottime47" <tottime@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Mandy,
>
> Since she's new to raw, I'll vote for the cutting back on bone..
>
> Just don't cut out all the bone at once. If you feed her twice a day
> make one boneless and one about half the usuall amount
> and if you feed once a day then every other day bone, maybeabout 1/2
> the usual amount.......
>
> Make sure she has plenty of water to drink and if she isn't drinking
> as much and you can feed in the house add a little to some of her
> meat so it extra juicy.
>
> I cut a few little chuncks off and put in a bowl and add water as
> mine don't seem to drink enough on their own and I've noticed their
> stools seem drier when I don't.
>
> Hope this helps.....
>
> Carol, Charkee & Moli
>
>
> This is day 3 of raw. My female bull terrier (Evie) has been eating
> chicken quarters and is now pooping very hard little nuggets. While
> pooping these little nuggets she is crying as if it hurts her.
> Mandy
>
>
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "mandajenwalker" <walker1031@>
> wrote:
>


Messages in this topic (9)
________________________________________________________________________

4f. Re: The Constipation has started...
Posted by: "mandajenwalker" walker1031@chartermi.net mandajenwalker
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 6:20 pm ((PDT))

Well I bought some pork and tried that and it was a BIG hit with all
of the dogs. They loved it!
Louie is having a lot of trouble with the bone though. Could it be
just too much for his little mouth? I know pugs have goofy jaws. He
tries to eat it but just can't grasp the concept.
Hank is still a little funny with the chicken even seared he dropped
it and ran....
I am gonna try feeding them in the basement and see if having free
reign to eat where they wish will help. They keep trying to carry it
into the living room on the carpeting.
Thanks everyone,
I appreciate the input!
Mandy

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Laurie Swanson" <laurie@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Mandy,
>
> Some dogs need help figuring out this new stuff is food. You might
> want to try feeding on the floor, on a towel or blanket, or outside--
> instead of a bowl. That might be confusing. Sorry if you've said what
> you're feeding already, but I can't remember. If it's anything other
> than a bit of organ or some chopped boneless meat, a bowl isn't the
> best. Most of what I feed wouldn't work in a bowl. My dog has to move
> it around, hold it down with his paws, etc. You can also slice into
> the meat, making it more appealing, or change the presentation in some
> way. If they still don't get it, you might sear it a little or add
> parmesan cheese or something. But I'd try the other ideas first.
>
> Laurie
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "mandajenwalker" <walker1031@>
> wrote:
> Louie
> > can't comprehend how to eat it. He was good the first day and after
> > that he tries to eat it for a minute and goes and lays down and leaves
> > the meat in the bowl. Hank too!
>


Messages in this topic (9)
________________________________________________________________________

4g. Re: The Constipation has started...
Posted by: "mandajenwalker" walker1031@chartermi.net mandajenwalker
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 6:23 pm ((PDT))


yes tried all of the above.
I am gonna try giving them the food in the basement where I don't care
so much about raw food being on the floor.
Cross your fingers for me.
thanks
Mandy


--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee Lee" <rlee@...> wrote:
>
> Mandy,
>
> I don't see any problem with adding in a bit of pork as long as she
is doing
> well. There is no magic length of time to feed chicken. If she
seems to be
> digesting well, try it.
>
> Have you tried warming the food, cutting into it, quickly searing,
> sprinkling with Parmesan, etc. for those guys? Might make it more
> appetizing.
>
> Sandee & the Dane Gang
>
> From: "mandajenwalker" <walker1031@...>
> I do feed twice a day. Is it too early to introduce other meats?
> Such as pork? She seems to be taking very well to it. Louie and hank
> on the other hand are not taking well to the diet in general. Louie
> can't comprehend how to eat it. He was good the first day and after
> that he tries to eat it for a minute and goes and lays down and leaves
> the meat in the bowl. Hank too!
>


Messages in this topic (9)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

5a. Re: Slippery Elm powder
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 3:40 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Yassy!
I don't know how it should be stored. I have it in a plastic
zippy bag in my kitchen. I should probably look into storing it
better, though. I used it use it pretty frequently for my IBD dog,
Perky. Since Bea seems to have a cast iron stomach, I don't use it
much now.
If I were you, I'd order the smaller size. It lasts quite a long time.
Herbs do age and lose their potency, here's a link;
http://gardening.about.com/od/vegetablepatch/a/DryingHerbs.htm
"Storing Dried Herbs

1. Store your dried herbs in air tight containers. Zip closing bags
will do. I like to use small canning jars.

2. Be sure to label and date your containers.

3. Your herbs will retain more flavor is you store the leaves hole
and crush them when you are ready to use them.

4. Discard any dried herbs that show the slightest sign of mold.

5. Place containers in a cool, dry place away from sunlight.

6. Dried herbs are best used within a year. As your herbs loose
their color, they are also loosing their flavor.

7. Use about 1 teaspoon crumbled dried leaves in place of a
tablespoon of fresh "

and here;
http://www.1articleworld.com/Article/How-To-Store-Dry-Herbs-And-Spices/71813
"Purchase dried herbs and spices in small quantities that you can use
up in reasonable amount of time. Store them in a tightly sealed
container in a cool place out of direct light. They will retain more
of their essential oil content and flavor when stored in glass jars or
metal tins. Direct sunlight will fade the color and reduce the quality
of your herbs and spices so store them in a dark cupboard. Also try
not to store them above the stove or near other heat sources as heat
will degrade the quality as well."

I think I'll double bag my supply and put it in the freezer.
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey


> Thanks, Giselle. So, do you keep it in fridge or freezer too or room
temp is OK to store?
>
> Is it unlimited shelf life?
>
> Palette is looking little perky today and I feel better. She
didn't do poo yesterday so, I think things are improving.
>
> Neighbor came our house with pasta salad in return for my Thai
Shrimp Curry I brought them yesterday. He brought couple of ...
sausage flavored doggy biscuit again.
>
> I put palette way back from entrance so that she would not get the
treats, and politely I told him I can't take it due she has tummy prob
now.I did not speak about feeding specifically but, I turned the
biscuit down.
>
> Giselle, I think I order through the site you put the link in post
all the time.
>
> Thanks for your reply
>
> yassy


Messages in this topic (14)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

6a. Why not to feed raw with kibble
Posted by: "ptmagi" ptmagi@gmail.com ptmagi
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 4:52 pm ((PDT))

When I mentioned I was feeding alternating meals of raw and kibble a
number of folks here piped up to say I shouldn't be doing so, but
other than one of those saying it caused digestive upset in her own
dogs, no one offered a concrete reason for that advisement that I
could wrap my brain around. Well, I think I found a very solid,
concrete reason and am posting it here for the possible education of
others like myself who come here for information but also need
REASONS! (I just really need to understand the WHYs before I can be
convinced of anything and know there are lots more like me out there.)

To that end, this site
http://www.mountaindogfood.com/HealthCare/Salmonella.htm
opened my eyes. For those who hate to follow links and read through
lengthy articles, I'll try - in my very non-scientific-minded way - to
sum it up VERY SIMPLISTICALLY...

The pH level in a dog's stomach is key. Raw meat does often contain
salmonella (and other icky stuff). But salmonella needs a minimum pH
4 to grow. An informal study showed that when raw meat was added to a
solution of pH 1 (akin to a dog's stomach), the pH level gradually
rose and leveled off at pH 3 after 6-1/2 hours. (Raw meat is fully
digested within 4-6 hours.) When kibble was added to a pH 1 solution,
the pH level rose to about 5.75 after 6-1/2 hours - a much more
opportune environment for bacterial growth (bloom). Also, carbs stay
in a dog's digestive system for 8-12 hours, so even if the kibble and
raw are fed at different meals, if you're feeding three times a day
(as I am) it's likely that the pH level will remain constantly high
enough to encourage bacterial growth. This last inference is my own,
but it seems logical. Even if my logic is flawed though, on another
page at MountainDogFood.com they offer the following warning:

"NEVER FEED A MIX OF RAW FOOD AND DRY COMMERCIAL FOOD! If you insist
on feeding a dry food separate them into two meals and feed the raw in
the morning, the dry a night. Even then the problems may occur due to
other circumstances."

So, I guess I really dodged a bullet (or our poor Atticus did) several
times last week when I was sprinkling ground beef on top of his kibble
and/or feeding alternating meals of kibble and raw chicken quarters.
Knocking-on-wood… he hasn't shown any ill-effects yet anyway.

Deb in CO


Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________

6b. Re: Why not to feed raw with kibble
Posted by: "tottime47" tottime@aol.com tottime47
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 5:31 pm ((PDT))

Hi Deb,

That's great detective work! It makes sense to me too..

I will be filing it away for future references.....

Carol, Charkee & Moli

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "ptmagi" <ptmagi@...> wrote:

> So, I guess I really dodged a bullet (or our poor Atticus did) several
> times last week when I was sprinkling ground beef on top of his kibble
> and/or feeding alternating meals of kibble and raw chicken quarters.
> Knocking-on-wood… he hasn't shown any ill-effects yet anyway.
>
> Deb in CO

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________

6c. Re: Why not to feed raw with kibble
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 6:02 pm ((PDT))

"ptmagi" <ptmagi@...> wrote:
> I'll try - in my very non-scientific-minded way - to
> sum it up VERY SIMPLISTICALLY...
*****
This is FAR too complicated a rationale. The reason one should not
feed raw with kibble is that kibble is a inferior foodlike substance.
There should have to be no more explanation that that.

Feeding raw with kibble dumbs down the benefits of raw and does nothing
to increase the virtue of kibble.

Chris O

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________

6d. Re: Why not to feed raw with kibble
Posted by: "cmhausrath" cmhausrath@yahoo.com cmhausrath
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 6:04 pm ((PDT))

"ptmagi" <ptmagi@...> wrote:

> When I mentioned I was feeding alternating meals of raw and kibble a
> number of folks here piped up to say I shouldn't be doing so


While it's great that you found a reason that makes sense to you, I
think it bears repeating that there's a much simpler reason not to feed
raw with ki**le: crapinabag is simply NOT appropriate food for
carnivores.

Period.

Mixing it with raw dumbs down the raw, and doesn't improve the
inappropriateness of the ki**le. If it helps some folks transition to
full-on raw feeding, good for them -- but that still doesn't make the
ki**le appropriate.

-- sandy & griffin

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________

6e. Re: Why not to feed raw with kibble
Posted by: "cmhausrath" cmhausrath@yahoo.com cmhausrath
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 6:17 pm ((PDT))

Chris O wrote:


> Feeding raw with kibble dumbs down the benefits of raw and does
> nothing to increase the virtue of kibble.


And simultaneously I wrote:


> Mixing it with raw dumbs down the raw, and doesn't improve the
> inappropriateness of the ki**le.


Now if only I'd waited a moment, I could've just let Chris O say it
once, instead of sounding like a parrot.

-- sandy (squaaaawk!) & griffin (oooo, parrot, I've never had that!)

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

All information on this list represents personal opinion only. By staying on this list, you agree to never hold anyone from this list or associated with this list liable for any information posted through this list. You agree to take personal responsibility for your learning, and for personal responsibility for what you feed yourself, your family, and your dogs, cats, ferrets, or any other animal that lives under your care. If you don't agree, please unsubscribe immediately.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/

<*> Your email settings:
Digest Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/join

(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:rawfeeding-normal@yahoogroups.com
mailto:rawfeeding-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
rawfeeding-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:

http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


------------------------------------------------------------------------

[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11957

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Beef Ribs
From: cmhausrath
1b. Re: Beef Ribs
From: Yasuko herron
1c. Re: Beef Ribs
From: Morledzep@aol.com
1d. Re: Beef Ribs
From: jmwise80

2a. HELP! They are still not pooping and one threw up!
From: coriowen
2b. Re: HELP! They are still not pooping and one threw up!
From: magolin0328
2c. Re: HELP! They are still not pooping and one threw up!
From: Olga
2d. Re: HELP! PLEASE ANSWER THE BOTTOM QUESTIONS, PLEASE!
From: coriowen
2e. Re: HELP! They are still not pooping and one threw up!
From: Yasuko herron
2f. Re: HELP! They are still not pooping and one threw up!
From: tottime47
2g. Re: HELP! PLEASE ANSWER THE BOTTOM QUESTIONS, PLEASE!
From: Yasuko herron
2h. Re: HELP! PLEASE ANSWER THE BOTTOM QUESTIONS, PLEASE!
From: coriowen
2i. Re: HELP! PLEASE ANSWER THE BOTTOM QUESTIONS, PLEASE!
From: Morledzep@aol.com
2j. Re: HELP! PLEASE ANSWER THE BOTTOM QUESTIONS, PLEASE!
From: Sandee Lee

3a. Re: worms, bones, old dogs
From: cmhausrath

4a. stumped my vet
From: DebiC
4b. Re: stumped my vet
From: Sandee Lee

5a. Re: are dogs carnivoirs or omnivoirs
From: tottime47

6a. Recreational or treat bones
From: kalina82
6b. Re: Recreational or treat bones
From: Yasuko herron

7a. Re: Kidney Failure
From: cypressbunny

8a. Re: Diabetes and Raw Feeding
From: Rhonda

9a. Re: Slippery Elm powder
From: Yasuko herron

10a. The Constipation has started...
From: mandajenwalker
10b. Re: The Constipation has started...
From: Sandee Lee


Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Re: Beef Ribs
Posted by: "cmhausrath" cmhausrath@yahoo.com cmhausrath
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 6:28 am ((PDT))

"jmwise80" <jmwise80@...> wrote:

> How edible are beef ribs?
> My dog is one of those that starts on one end and goes to the
other.
> Eventually he will start picking off meat, but not before he gives
the
> bone his best shot.


Depends on the dog! My dog is also a start-on-one-end-and-chomp-
straight-through kinda guy, with most everything. The first couple
times I gave him beef ribs, he did exactly the same thing: motored
straight through, consuming bone & all. Once he got more used to
eating raw, he stopped consuming the bone and just picked them
clean. He still chews the ends off, and occasionally eats a rib or
two, but mostly he just leaves clean bones for me to pick up. Check
out the beef rib gallery on www.rawfeddogs.net:
http://rawfeddogs.net/RecipePhotos/9


> Are beef ribs much harder than pork ribs?


Yes, IME. Griffin does plow straight through pork ribs, without
fail, leaving nothing at all for me to pick up. But I personally
don't worry about beef ribs (or necks, or tails) being too dense to
eat -- I figure if Griffin wants to go to the effort of chomping them
down, that's his prerogative.

I do agree with Giselle that there are lots of options for good
challenging big meals -- all the ones she mentioned, plus six-way cut
goat or lamb, venison ribs or backs, and whatever else you can find
(Chris O gets whole fetal goats -- wow!!) -- but I still think
there's a place for racks of beef ribs. They're a uniquely engaging
meal, at least for Griff.

-- sandy & griffin

Messages in this topic (13)
________________________________________________________________________

1b. Re: Beef Ribs
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 11:10 am ((PDT))

> I know Yassy's Corgi eats them.

Hi,Laurie.

Yea,I don't know why she can cranch bone so well on almost anything but yes,my dog's jaw seems pretty strong.

She can eat
+Beef Short Rib Bone all
+Beef neck All but one time,she left about 30% for me to pick up
+Buffalo Ribs All
+Pork Neck All
+Pork Feet all
+Lamb Rib all
+Lamb Neck all
+ Elk Rib All but one time left 20% to pick up for me
+Goat Rib All
+Goat Neck all

Hardest/Challenging seemed to be Buffalo Rib and Beef Neck and Beef Rib.Those took my dog consume 90 min average. For Pork feet,about 60 min.

I will give her cow hooves and ox tail this end of this month so,I can tell you how she did after that.

By the way,those who does not know me,my dog is Corgi turning to 2 year old this August 29th and,shebeen on raw about 3 months plus now.

Each dog has different jaw strength,so, my advise who is thinking if the bone is ok to give or not,I say try feed and see how your dogs do.I take bone away if the dog did not make any progress after long time.And supervise your dog and don't leave the dog alone with bone.

yassy


---------------------------------
Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles.
Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (13)
________________________________________________________________________

1c. Re: Beef Ribs
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 1:30 pm ((PDT))


In a message dated 8/25/2007 3:24:56 AM Pacific Standard Time,
laurie@mckinneyphoto.com writes:

If your dog
is bigger, they might be ok. I know Yassy's Corgi eats them. What do
y'all with bigger dogs think?



Laurie,

the real aggressive bone chewing usually stops after a few months, my dogs
used to try to power chew beef ribs. But after they realized that the diet was
permanent and they are settled into the routine, they don't, when they get
beef ribs they each get a whole slab and then i spend the next 3 days picking up
bare naked rib bones that are left behind.

oh.. and for reference purposes.. my dogs are 60 - 150 lbs, average about
80ish lbs. and there are 9 of them. 2 wolfdogs, 2 akitas, 1 pit bull, 1 collie,
1 golden, 1 american bulldog, and 1 great dane.

Catherine R.

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (13)
________________________________________________________________________

1d. Re: Beef Ribs
Posted by: "jmwise80" jmwise80@yahoo.com jmwise80
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 1:37 pm ((PDT))

Thanks all! I'll give 'em a go and just see how he treats them. I
hadn't fed them before and didn't know how they were. Our hunting
seasons start in a few months so hopefully engaging meals will be a
plenty around here. I know he'll eat deer, but if I can get him to eat
squirrel, dove, fish, and duck I won't have to buy very much this
year. Crossing my fingers.

Michael Wise

Messages in this topic (13)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

2a. HELP! They are still not pooping and one threw up!
Posted by: "coriowen" COwen98@aol.com coriowen
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 6:39 am ((PDT))

I am not very happy this morning after my husband and I spent all
night waking up with our two Dachshunds either wanting to go out to
TRY to go poop and NOTHING coming out but just some small amount of
liquid to other times them needing to go out and trying to go and
nothing would come out! We did this aboug 5 times last night and the
night before. I feel soo sorry for these two. I wish I wouldn't
have switched at this point, they look like they are miserable.
Their tummies are gurgling and my two year old Dachshund even threw
up bile early this morning around 5 am. Is any or all of this
normal? I did take the two year old temp and it is 100.6, so she is
ok there and they are acting ok but this is MISERABLE for them, JUST
MISERABLE. How many days do they have to get acclamated or will
they. The two year old did have a nice solid poop after a walk
yesterday evening but that has been the ONLY good one either of them
have had since I started them on Wed. I gave them pepto and immodiom
(sp?) last night. I don't know if that was right or wrong but they
are just non-stop and we hate watching them go through this. The
first two feedings they got chicken with the bone left in and
yesterday they got just chicken with no bone. WHAT ELSE CAN I DO?
Should I feed them two times a day? I have also given them Omega 3
capsule Wed. forgot on Thurs and gave them yesterday. I'm sorry this
is so long but I am very concerned about my girls!
Cori

Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________

2b. Re: HELP! They are still not pooping and one threw up!
Posted by: "magolin0328" maggie.taylor@artlover.com magolin0328
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 8:16 am ((PDT))

You could always try feeding some organ meat. It generally goes the
opposite direction so you may wind up with diarrhea, but at least
they'd go. I'd also not give much, if any bone for a day or two. Too
much bone tends to plug things up.

Maggie
Diesel, SDIT

Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________

2c. Re: HELP! They are still not pooping and one threw up!
Posted by: "Olga" olga.drozd@gmail.com olga_d
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 9:20 am ((PDT))

When we started to feed raw the much reduced poop volume was a very
welcome change. It sounds like one of them is doing fine in the poop
department, when is the last time the other one went?

Can you give me a quick summary of what chicken parts you fed, when,
and how much of it? Are you feeding one meal a day?

BTW, I suspect that the bile is just because raw digests faster than
kibble and her stomach is just not used to that yet.

Olga

Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________

2d. Re: HELP! PLEASE ANSWER THE BOTTOM QUESTIONS, PLEASE!
Posted by: "coriowen" COwen98@aol.com coriowen
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 10:39 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Olga" <olga.drozd@...> wrote:
>
> When we started to feed raw the much reduced poop volume was a very
> welcome change. It sounds like one of them is doing fine in the
poop
> department, when is the last time the other one went?

I'm not sure I understand how you think either is doing well in the
poop dept unless you think my 10 month old that has diarhhea, still,
is doing well. It's the 2 year old that I thought was fine yesterday
evening after our walk that she produced a solid, not hard, poop, and
by the night and through out the early morning would try to go and
nothing or just a drop or two of mucousy brown poo. My husband was
taking care of the 10month old throughout the night and did say that
she had diarrhea on the carpet once, so she is still going but it is
watery.
>
> Can you give me a quick summary of what chicken parts you fed, when,
> and how much of it? Are you feeding one meal a day?
If you go back and read my original post from this morning you can
see when I fed. They are only getting fed once a day. I am about to
feed them again, and no bones again today just like yesterday. I fed
them thighs the first day with bones and breasts with no bones
yesterday and in a few minutes. I don't have any organs to feed them
by the way. I asked at both of my local stores here in my little
town and neither carry that unless, I am not thinking of something
that I can go get for them but for right now I just have the boneless
chicken breasts.>
> BTW, I suspect that the bile is just because raw digests faster than
> kibble and her stomach is just not used to that yet.

DO YOU THINK I SHOULD BE FEEDING THEM MORE THAN ONCE A DAY AND DO YOU
THINK I SHOULD BE GIVING THEM SOME PEPTO FOR THEIR TUMMIES? THEY
BOTH WILL NOT LEAVE THE BACK DOOR TO GO OUT, IS THIS NORMAL??? WE
CAN'T LEAVE THEM OUTSIDE, IT'S ALMOST 100 DEGREES HERE IN TEXAS AND
WITH THE HEAT INDEX IT'S OVER 100 DEGREES THEY ARE NOT USED TO BEING
OUT THAT MUCH. DID ANYONE ELSE'S DOGS NEED TO GO OUT THIS MUCH AT
FIRST AND DID THEIR STOMACH MAKE SO MUCH NOISE? I feel terrible for
how bad these girls feel, terrible. =(
>
> Olga
>


Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________

2e. Re: HELP! They are still not pooping and one threw up!
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 11:09 am ((PDT))

>I spent all night waking up with our two Dachshunds either wanting to go out to
>TRY to go poop and NOTHING coming out

Hi. I think your dog is constipated so,why don't you..

1>Go for walking ;walking encourage bowel movement and,naturally it helps to get the dog go poo

2> Feed less bone and more meat;Too much bone causeconstipation.
What are you feeding?I mean,you wrote you feeding chicken but, are you feeding already cut up chicken or whole chicken cut up by yourselves?

It ispossible that dog maybe digested all you gave to them,but if you seeing dog trying to go and no poo all the time,maybe too much bone is my guess.why don't you try feeding less bone parts?

Example>if you are feeding Leg quarter and you see this no poo days,why don't you switch to chicken breast with rib bone(more meat andless bone)

If you are feeding bunch of chicken wings,it maybe the culprit due bony parts not much meat there.If you wanted to feed chicken wings,you feed it attached or feed with hunk of boneless meat.


>Their tummies are gurgling and my two year old Dachshund even threw up bile early this >morning around 5 am.
Usually,bile means the dog is hungry.Did you feed any?

>How many days do they have to get acclamated or will they.

This is just my judgement I would use if my dog did not do poo but,I will probably wait about 3 days and regardless waht you feed and no poo,I go vet and see what is going on.

>The two year old did have a nice solid poop after a walk yesterday evening but that has >been the ONLY good one either of them have had since I started them on Wed.

If you just started,then,it could means that the dog digested everything you fed. But if the dog trying to go and nothing comes out.. I still think too much bone in meal.And, when just started,don't expect having all solid nice poo. They need adjustment time.

>The first two feedings they got chicken with the bone left in and yesterday they got just >chicken with no bone. WHAT ELSE CAN I DO?

Feed less bone is my first choice.

> I have also given them Omega 3 capsule Wed. forgot on Thurs and gave them yesterday.

You can go slow to give anything and dog without supplements for some weeks are still fine. Relax.

Fish oil capsul is not medecine and no big deal even if you forgot to give.

yassy


---------------------------------
Building a website is a piece of cake.
Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________

2f. Re: HELP! They are still not pooping and one threw up!
Posted by: "tottime47" tottime@aol.com tottime47
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 11:10 am ((PDT))

Hi Cori,

Are you reading any of the other posts? At least a half dozen in the
last day or so have talked about slippery elm bark for digestion.

Go to walmart, any drug store or health food store and buy a bottle,
it's not that expensive......It's in the vitamin section........

Search for past posts on this site about Slippery Elm Bark or just
read the last few
days emails to get the right dosage and how to give.

You can sprinkle it on their food or make up with hamburger (little
balls) and give them 3 or 4 doses today....It should help their
tummys and stools....

Make sure the first meals ALL have bone in them to keep their stools
firmer.
Best way to do that is get several WHOLE CHICKENS and cut them up
into serving pieces...
Feed through those chickens before giving any other meats....freeze
any gizzards,
livers, necks that come with the chicken for later...

When a dog new to raw throws up bile, it's because they have an
empty tummy.
You can offer a little chunk of chicken or two for a snack till
mealtime...

Skip the pepto and immodiom, slippery elm is better and safer..
Skip the Omega 3 for now as it can also cause looser stools till
the dog is used to it.

Give two meals instead of one....too much food at one sitting can
also cause loose stools.......

The best thing you can do for your dogs is take time to read past
emils.
Search feeding on the site and just read.....your dogs are sadly
reacting normally to being started improperly.....How do I know?
Because I started my first dog off this way too and had the same
problems! I was much better 5 months later
and when we got Moli 6 wks ago, she's not had any
problems...........I just wish I
hadn't been so dumb and read a few past emails on how to start
and a few of the great sites so often quoted here, but I thought oh
it's so easy, just throw them the meat, well it is that easy once
you've done it a few times or weeks, lol., but when you
have dogs that have been on k***le for a long time, there are almost
always problems as the poor dog no longer has the enzymes and
probotics at a healthy level to allow him to digest properly.You
have to go slow and allow their body to build up those levels (IMHO)

Yes, there are some dogs who start out and have cast iron stomachs
or maybe the owners got it right from the beginning.....but I'm only
relating my own experiences here..lol

I hope this helps some. Hang in there and know you're doing the best
thing for their health and mind......

I know, you should see mine now!

Carol, Charkee & Moli

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "coriowen" <COwen98@...> wrote:

I am not very happy this morning after my husband and I spent all
night waking up with our two Dachshunds either wanting to go out to
TRY to go poop and NOTHING coming out but just some small amount of
liquid to other times them needing to go out and trying to go and
nothing would come out!
I gave them pepto and immodiom
(sp?) last night.

Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________

2g. Re: HELP! PLEASE ANSWER THE BOTTOM QUESTIONS, PLEASE!
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 11:18 am ((PDT))

>I'm not sure I understand how you think either is doing well in the
>poop dept unless you think my 10 month old that has diarhhea, still,
>is doing well.

Hi.Ok,so,one of your dog has watery diarrhea and other older dog has hard time pooing but comes out goey poo?

Then,don't feed the fish oil now to your dogs.Oil makes poo softer.It could help.
And,maybe,if you are feeding younger one once in one day,then,maybe younger one being fed too much at once.Why don't you feed smaller portion and feed throughout theday?
Too much food cause diarrhea.

If that did not help,feed more bone.More bone makes poo firmer.And try giving either probiotic with meal or slippery Elms when your dog had diarrhea.It clear up very good.

> It's the 2 year old that I thought was fine yesterday evening after our walk that she >produced a solid, not hard, poop, and by the night and through out the early morning would >try to go and nothing or just a drop or two of mucousy brown poo.

So,from this writing.. older one has soft poo problems then?

mucous shows that dog try to get rid of thing that is irritating their stomack. Give both of your dogs water to avoid dehydration from diarrhea.

And if that consists,then fast them.And next time you feed,don't feed fish oil and just plain chicken maybe want to try chicken skin off for a while.Too much fat also cause loose/diarrhea problems.

> I am about to feed them again, and no bones again today just like yesterday.

ok, boneless meat makes poo softer so,if you have problems with goey poo/softer poo,feed more bones.

> I don't have any organs to feed them by the way.

Again,don't feed organ if you have goey poo problems.organ makes poo softer and it helps when you have constipated dog.

I thought that you had constipated dog so,I said feed more meat andI think Olga wason same page to me so she suggested to feed organ to go poo easy,but if you had softer poo problems,do oposit;more bones.

And, as for organs,if you buy whole chicken you get couple of giblet bag inside andyou get liver heart etc and you also can get tab of chicken liver around chicken meat area at grocery store.

If I were you I would not feed organ until you know that your dog does fine on chicken.

So, no fish oil,no organ and just feed chicken removing some of chicken skin for a couple of days and get them used to chicken first if not constipated but softer poo or diarrhea.

yassy


---------------------------------
Luggage? GPS? Comic books?
Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________

2h. Re: HELP! PLEASE ANSWER THE BOTTOM QUESTIONS, PLEASE!
Posted by: "coriowen" COwen98@aol.com coriowen
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:24 pm ((PDT))

Thank you Yassy. We feed probiotic to all our horses and it comes in a
powder form for them, can feeding these girls some plain yogurt work
just as well or should I find some probiotics at a health food store?
I am going to follow your advice on the feedings and feed the younger
Dachshund (10 mos old) a few times a day smaller portions and I think I
will feed the 2 year old twice a day. BTW, when I went to feed them a
while ago, the younger one scarfed her boneless chicken breast down and
the two year old acted like she wanted her's at first and then just
sort of walked away until she started to get pressure (stares) from the
younger one and she proceeded to eat the whole thing. The older one
just doesn't seem herself at all. She seems dull and I wouldn't say
lissless but not too spunky. The baby is still hyper as usual but both
have very noisy tummies. Right now they are both sleeping on the
living room floor. I do know that they should injest A LOT of water
when diarrhea is present and they are drinking a lot so they are
staying hydrated and gums are pink. Again, thank you for the help.
Cori
>
> So, no fish oil,no organ and just feed chicken removing some of
chicken skin for a couple of days and get them used to chicken first if
not constipated but softer poo or diarrhea.
>
> yassy
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Luggage? GPS? Comic books?
> Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>


Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________

2i. Re: HELP! PLEASE ANSWER THE BOTTOM QUESTIONS, PLEASE!
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 1:58 pm ((PDT))


In a message dated 8/25/2007 9:39:25 AM Pacific Standard Time,
COwen98@aol.com writes:

DO YOU THINK I SHOULD BE FEEDING THEM MORE THAN ONCE A DAY AND DO YOU
THINK I SHOULD BE GIVING THEM SOME PEPTO FOR THEIR TUMMIES? THEY
BOTH WILL NOT LEAVE THE BACK DOOR TO GO OUT, IS THIS NORMAL??? WE
CAN'T LEAVE THEM OUTSIDE, IT'S ALMOST 100 DEGREES HERE IN TEXAS AND
WITH THE HEAT INDEX IT'S OVER 100 DEGREES THEY ARE NOT USED TO BEING
OUT THAT MUCH. DID ANYONE ELSE'S DOGS NEED TO GO OUT THIS MUCH AT
FIRST AND DID THEIR STOMACH MAKE SO MUCH NOISE? I feel terrible for
how bad these girls feel, terrible. =(




****i understand your frustration.. but no good can come from yelling at
folks that are trying to help you. Pepto is NOT the answer either.

We are all willing to help, but we aren't getting paid to do so, this list
and participation on this list is entirely voluntary. No one here owes you
anything.

Olga was very nice and very patient with you, and she asked for what you are
feeding. I'm going to ask the same thing, i don't have access to the list
archives to find the post that you claim is there.. and i don't have time to
look, even if i could access it.

If you want help, it's just easier to answer the questions.

Sooo, what exactly are you feeding and to whom are you feeding it? What
kinda dogs, what food, exactly.. then MAYBE we can help you.

i'll tell you this with knowing nothing about your dogs, more bone = harder
poop, and more meat = softer poop.. this is a good guideline to keep in mind
once you're through the initial transition.

ok, from what i can gather you're feeding two dachshunds, it looks to me from
what i can figure out that they both took 2 days to poop after you started
raw? this is normal.

and now one has loose stools and one has firm stools? and one spit up bile?
i'm only guessing by what i can find in my email box at the moment, i can't
find your original posts and i can't access the archives.

these are normal reactions to a change in diet.. first make sure you're not
overfeeding, feeding too much food or too much variety in the beginning is
often a cause of loose stools. second, give it another couple days to let their
digestive systems adjust.

If after a few more days their poop doesn't stabilize then remove the skin
from the chickens they are eating, and check the package the chicken came in to
see if the meat you bought was "enhanced". if it is, change to minimally
processed chicken asap.

And then treat with slippery elm as one other person suggested.

do NOT feed pepto or immodium to either dog for any reason, also no veggies
or grains of any kind. let their systems adjust to the new food naturally.

Catherine R.

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________

2j. Re: HELP! PLEASE ANSWER THE BOTTOM QUESTIONS, PLEASE!
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 2:06 pm ((PDT))

Hi Cori,

I wouldn't recommend adding yogurt. Many dogs cannot digest dairy products
so you don't want to take the chance on more upsets at this point! :)) You
probably don't really need probiotics either. The more stuff you start
adding, the more you complicate the issue.

I agree that you should feed smaller more frequent meals. Too much food at
one sitting can definitely cause loose stools. I really think that's going
to be the key to resolving this issue.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "coriowen" <COwen98@aol.com>


Thank you Yassy. We feed probiotic to all our horses and it comes in a
powder form for them, can feeding these girls some plain yogurt work
just as well or should I find some probiotics at a health food store?
I am going to follow your advice on the feedings and feed the younger
Dachshund (10 mos old) a few times a day smaller portions and I think I
will feed the 2 year old twice a day.

Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

3a. Re: worms, bones, old dogs
Posted by: "cmhausrath" cmhausrath@yahoo.com cmhausrath
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 6:44 am ((PDT))

"financialcongratulatory" <jess.hamway@...> wrote:

> Is it possible for a dog to get worms from eating raw meat?


Possible? I suppose. Most everything I feed, though, is from human-
food suppliers, so I truly doubt worms are a concern. If you're
getting wild caught meat, you could always freeze it first to kill off
any beasties.

Personally, I've never given it a moment's thought. If I ever see
symptoms in my dog that concern me, perhaps I'd have him tested for
worms, but I don't think a moderate parasite load -- even if he did
have any worms -- is a problem for a healthy critter.


> Also, what bones are edible besides chicken bones?


Oh, my gracious, there's a tremendous list. Really, it depends on the
individual dog, and the only way to find out is to offer something &
see what happens! For my dog, edible bones include any part of
chicken, turkey, duck, pork, venison, lamb, mutton, goat, rabbit, and
of course fish, and non-weight-bearing bones from beef and bison (such
as necks, tails and sometimes ribs).


> Is there anything I should be doing differently for an older dog?


Again, this is dog-dependent: how big is the dog, how old, and how
healthy otherwise? I started rawfeeding Griffin when he was 9ish, and
the only change I've made to accommodate his age is to offer smaller,
more frequent meals. Rather than feeding 3-6 pounds at a time, a few
times a week, I now feed a snack every morning and not more than maybe
2 pounds on any given day, in the evening. Thanks to rawfeeding,
though (IMO, of course), he's aged beautifully. This is him at 10ish,
maybe 6 months after starting raw:
http://rawfeddogs.net/PhotoGalleries/ViewPhoto.php?album=19&pos=1
and this is him this past spring, at 13ish:
http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/photos/view/72b6?
b=1&m=f&o=2

He's grayer, and he's slowing down, but he's healthy, happy, fit, and a
marvelous companion. My only regret is that I didn't start raw feeding
sooner!

-- sandy & griffin


Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

4a. stumped my vet
Posted by: "DebiC" dcole6@satx.rr.com scarlet_debi
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 7:59 am ((PDT))

Raw Feeding for dogs and cats!I have a very nice vet who insists that dogs are omnivores. I don't know where this came from but she really believes it.

Then I asked her the difference between Jack Russells and Gerrnan Shepards in their nutritional needs. She said mainly the amount. They both need the same foods.

Then I asked her the difference between German Shepards and Wolves. She said one was Canis lupus familiaris (Domestic dog) and the other was Canis lupus nubilus (Great Plains Wolf)
I then asked her what the difference in their nutritional needs. She said Wolves are carnivores and dogs are omnivores. I asked her if she looked at a skeleton if she could tell the difference between a GS and a wolf. She said probably not. Then I asked why is one an omnivore and one a carnivore, they're both canis lupus. She couldn't answer that.

I didn't actually win, but I set her thinking.

Debi Cole

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________

4b. Re: stumped my vet
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 2:20 pm ((PDT))

Hey Debi,

Actually the gray wolf is canis lupis familiaris, just in case you want to
continue this conversation with your vet!! :))

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "DebiC" <dcole6@satx.rr.com>
> Then I asked her the difference between German Shepards and Wolves. She
said one was Canis lupus familiaris (Domestic dog) and the other was Canis
lupus nubilus (Great Plains Wolf)
> I then asked her what the difference in their nutritional needs. She said
Wolves are carnivores and dogs are omnivores. I asked her if she looked at
a skeleton if she could tell the difference between a GS and a wolf. She
said probably not. Then I asked why is one an omnivore and one a carnivore,
they're both canis lupus. She couldn't answer that.

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

5a. Re: are dogs carnivoirs or omnivoirs
Posted by: "tottime47" tottime@aol.com tottime47
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 8:10 am ((PDT))

Hi Mandy,

No thanks needed, just listen to your intuition, you know your dogs
best........

As for the Raw Diet, once your dogs are on it, you are not
going to believe the changes! All for the better, once you get the
hang of it.......lol

I could go on & on about how much my dogs have gotten healthier, but
will wait to hear from you after a month or so..... (hehehe)

Carol, Charkee & Moli

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "mandajenwalker" <walker1031@...>
wrote:

I have had my doubts
about her in the past and have often thought of changing....
As far as the diet, I want to first observe the way my dogs react
to the raw diet and use my own judgment from there.
Mandy


Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

6a. Recreational or treat bones
Posted by: "kalina82" kalina82@yahoo.com kalina82
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 8:32 am ((PDT))

Hi,

What are some good recreational or treat bones I can give my 4lb
Yorkie (1 year old) to munch on and play with? I've been told a
single beef rib bone or pork rib bone, or turkey neck is good. Is
this true?

Thanks
Kellie

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________

6b. Re: Recreational or treat bones
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 9:43 am ((PDT))

>What are some good recreational or treat bones I can give my 4lbYorkie (1 year old) to >munch on and play with?

Hi. my dog;30lb gets treat/snack/recreationals..

*Chicken feet (should be good for tiny dog.My dog loves them.Dog can consume all)
You can get it at shoppersaround $2 per package

*Chicken Neck ( For tiny dog,Chicken Neck is good size snack I think.Not for big dog that
is gulper)

*Pork ear (If thiswas too big,you can take it away when you think it is enough.It is all
consumable)

*Pork feet (My dog consumed all,but it rather harder than pork rib bone,not as hard as beef
bone.Good recreational.You can take thefeet away when you think it is enough
and give it back when you want to give work out time later)

So far,I can think of these. Turky Neck is huge and one single neck probably weigh around 6pz(little lessthan half pound).It is all consumable. My dog gets it as part of meal with boneless meat.

Pork ribs are quite soft bone so,dog can consume all. I usually feed it aspart of meal with boneless meat.

yassy


---------------------------------
Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

7a. Re: Kidney Failure
Posted by: "cypressbunny" cypressbunny@yahoo.com cypressbunny
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 8:51 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" <halle4@...> wrote:
>
> High protein is very damaging to kidneys in failure. I was a
dialysis tech in another life and high protein was the enemy of my
patients. I live with an Internist who just verified it for me before
I wrote this to the group.

*** An internist in canine medicine? And I assume you were an dialysis
tech in canine medicine as well? There is some evidence that some
omnivorous species with kidney disease, such as humans and rats, do
better with moderate rather than high levels of protein, but please
present any evidence at all that carnivores with kidney disease need
low protein. As others have already asked... did you read any of the
articles Sandee mentioned?

--Carrie

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

8a. Re: Diabetes and Raw Feeding
Posted by: "Rhonda" rhonda18@gmail.com rhondabrabbin
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 11:11 am ((PDT))

I went looking for the yahoo group that has a raw diabetic dog group
and couldn't find it can you give me the site adderss?

Thank you

Rhonda

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "emmiemileslouie" <lklora@...>
wrote:
>
> ***MODERATOR'S NOTE: PLEASE TRIM YOUR MESSAGES.***
>
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "doguenanny" <Dixie4911@> wrote:
> >
> > A friend of mine's lab was recently diagnosed with diabetes (she
> said
> > it's the insulin dependent type). I have always talked to her
> about
> > feeding raw, but she never thought about switching. Until now. I
> told
> > her it would be the best thing she could do for her dog,
especially
> > now. I told her I'd try to find some information to send her, but
> I
> > haven't found anything yet that talks about how a raw diet can be
> > beneficial to dogs with diabetes. She's the type of person who
> will
> > want to see specifics (or something close to specifics)......can
> anyone
> > out there point me in the right direction, or does anyone out
there
> > have a dog with diabetes on raw?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Frankie
>
>
> Once again Frankie,
>
> I found that one of the yahoo groups has a raw diabetic dog group.
I
> am not a member but it may be worth your friends time to check it
> out.
> Hope this helps.
>
> Linda
>


Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

9a. Re: Slippery Elm powder
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:24 pm ((PDT))

Thanks,Gisell. So,do you keep ot in fridge or freezer too or room tep is ok to store?

Is it unlimited shelf life?

Palette is looking little perky today and I feel better. She didn't do poo yesterday so,I think things are improving.

Neighbor came our house with pasta salad in return for my Thai Shrimp Curry I brought them yestreday.He brought couple of ... sausage flavored doggy biscuit again.

I put palette way back from entrance so that she would not get the treats,and politely I told him I can't take it due she has tummy prob now.I did not speak about feeding specifically but,I turned the biscuit down.

Gisell,I think I order through the site you put the link in post all the time.

Thanks for your reply

yassy


---------------------------------
Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (13)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

10a. The Constipation has started...
Posted by: "mandajenwalker" walker1031@chartermi.net mandajenwalker
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 1:37 pm ((PDT))

I have been reading some posts on the way to eliminate constipation
but I want to make sure that I have my ducks in a row....
This is day 3 of raw. My female bull terrier (Evie) has been eating
chicken quarters and is now pooping very hard little nuggets. While
pooping these little nuggets she is crying as if it hurts her.
So my question is, do I get organs and give her a little while cutting
back on the chicken quarter? Or do I give her boneless while
eliminating the quarter for a little bit and maybe adding a little
organ?
Please let me know,
thanks
Mandy

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________

10b. Re: The Constipation has started...
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 1:52 pm ((PDT))

Mandy,

Are you feeding twice a day? If so, feed one meal with bone, one without.
I would feed just meat for her next meal.

You can add a little bit of organs but don't overdo it or you may end up
with the opposite problem! :)

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "mandajenwalker" <walker1031@chartermi.net>


My female bull terrier (Evie) has been eating
chicken quarters and is now pooping very hard little nuggets. While
pooping these little nuggets she is crying as if it hurts her.
So my question is, do I get organs and give her a little while cutting
back on the chicken quarter? Or do I give her boneless while
eliminating the quarter for a little bit and maybe adding a little
organ?

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

All information on this list represents personal opinion only. By staying on this list, you agree to never hold anyone from this list or associated with this list liable for any information posted through this list. You agree to take personal responsibility for your learning, and for personal responsibility for what you feed yourself, your family, and your dogs, cats, ferrets, or any other animal that lives under your care. If you don't agree, please unsubscribe immediately.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/

<*> Your email settings:
Digest Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/join

(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:rawfeeding-normal@yahoogroups.com
mailto:rawfeeding-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
rawfeeding-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:

http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


------------------------------------------------------------------------

[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11956

There are 21 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Slippery Elm powder
From: Ivette Casiano
1b. Re: Slippery Elm powder
From: Giselle

2a. Re: Turkey legs
From: r ej

3a. Re: Bear meat/parts
From: linoleum5017

4a. Re: Newbie reassurance & questions
From: linoleum5017
4b. Re: Newbie reassurance & questions
From: Morledzep@aol.com

5a. Re: Not good teeth
From: costrowski75
5b. Re: Not good teeth
From: costrowski75

6a. Re: Skin allergy
From: costrowski75

7a. Re: Venison Organs/Parts & First Rawfed litte
From: costrowski75

8a. Re: are dogs carnivoirs or omnivoirs
From: Giselle
8b. Re: are dogs carnivoirs or omnivoirs
From: mandajenwalker

9a. Re: Fantastic Score!!!
From: Lindsay Dorian

10a. Beef Ribs
From: jmwise80
10b. Re: Beef Ribs
From: Giselle
10c. Re: Beef Ribs
From: Laurie Swanson
10d. Re: Beef Ribs
From: woofwoofgrrl

11.1. Re: question
From: Katie

12a. Re: Okay rawfeeders, riddle me this...
From: Kelly P

13a. Re: vegetarian who wants to start feeding my ill 6 month old puppy r
From: Giselle

14a. worms, bones, old dogs
From: financialcongratulatory


Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Re: Slippery Elm powder
Posted by: "Ivette Casiano" ivettecasiano@yahoo.com ivettecasiano
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:15 pm ((PDT))

<<...Dosage is human dosage on package? I need to see when I get it though.For 30lb dog,it maybe tiny bit,I am guessing...>>

I gave Slipper Elm to a 90 lbs. dog. I opened 2 capsules and sprinkled the powder onto his food. That seemed like a good dose.

Ivette Casiano
"Live for today, plan for tomorrow"


---------------------------------
Luggage? GPS? Comic books?
Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (12)
________________________________________________________________________

1b. Re: Slippery Elm powder
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 10:50 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Ivette and Yassy!
I use the loose SEBP and generally use 1 tsp
sprinkled over a meal or mixed in a 1 ounce ground or chopped chicken
meat meatball.

I feed 1 per meal and if there is real diarrhea or irritation, I fast
and feed several interspersed throughout the day, offering plenty of
fresh water or broth.

I haven't needed or seen a need to use larger doses for larger or
giant breed dogs, but it wouldn't hurt if the dose was doubled, but
I'd add 2 tsp SEBP to 1 ounce meat instead.
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey


> <<...Dosage is human dosage on package? I need to see when I get it
though.For 30lb dog,it maybe tiny bit,I am guessing...>>
>
> I gave Slipper Elm to a 90 lbs. dog. I opened 2 capsules and
sprinkled the powder onto his food. That seemed like a good dose.
>
>
>
> Ivette Casiano
> "Live for today, plan for tomorrow"

Messages in this topic (12)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

2a. Re: Turkey legs
Posted by: "r ej" ejtwins2002@yahoo.com ejtwins2002
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:17 pm ((PDT))

i feed my 18 lb westie a turkey drumstick all the time. i do watch him very carefully when he approaches the nub end.
ej

Morledzep@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 8/22/2007 2:39:51 PM Pacific Standard Time,
ricottaj@mac.com writes:

New to rawfeeding and wondering if it is okay to feed a turkey drumstick to
my dog. She is a
50 pound pitbull/boxer mix.

Jen,

nothing wrong with turkey drumsticks.. they are favorite foods here.. except
most of my dogs eat the drumsticks with the thighs still attached, like a
chicken leg quarter only bigger..

Catherine R.

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


---------------------------------
Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles.
Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (19)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

3a. Re: Bear meat/parts
Posted by: "linoleum5017" linoleum5017@yahoo.com linoleum5017
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:17 pm ((PDT))

Erika,

Guess he's finished, cause it's now Friday, and I'm just reading the
post. Good for U! Just wanted to encourage you in feeding all the
parts.

Take care,
Lynne


--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "erica" <ericagordon@...> wrote:
>
> bear parts. My Dad is on the list & a bear was hit by a car. He is
processing it & is saving me the head, liver, lungs & heart. > Erica
>


Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

4a. Re: Newbie reassurance & questions
Posted by: "linoleum5017" linoleum5017@yahoo.com linoleum5017
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:19 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Mary Whetsel" <chickiboo@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi all,
Welcome, Mary.

> I just joined the group and have just started raw feeding my 2 dogs
> chicken leg quarters - cheap & seemed like a good place to start.
***yup.

Still, I'm wondering how long I should stay unconcerned. One dog
(she's a 100 lb St. Bernardmix) still has the diarrhea.

****I'd give it a few more days, and keep the bone ratio high.
Switching protein would likely make it worse, so try to stick to the
one meat until the stool is more solid.

The other dog (a 85lb rather nervous golden/newfie mix) seems just
fine activity wise and all, but hasn't gone at all since Monday
afternoon. I have read there is less waste, but is that acceptable?

******Yes. A couple of days, when new to raw, will easily have that
effect.

But then they seem to spend a lot of time chewing, swallowing it as
one big chewed up piece. but should I be somehow encouraging
smaller pieces?

***** For your sized dogs, I'd be inclined to go to LARGER pieces,
not smaller. Chicken quarters are really for smaller dogs. Go for
whole prey, like whole chicken or turkey, then once your dogs
are 'pooping well,' expand to other (large) critters.

I'm confused by the whole bone/meat ratio and how much is in
what. -Mary

****This list recommends 80% rawmeat, 10% bone, 10% organs, (half of
that 10% should be liver - iow, 5% of the entire diet is liver.) It
is that important to get organs into the diet - especially liver.
Lots of posts in the archives on how to introduce liver to your
rawfed dog.

Basically, the closer to whole prey food you can get, the more ideal
the diet.

Your dogs soundwonderful! Let us know if the diarrhea improves.
Lynne


Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________

4b. Re: Newbie reassurance & questions
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:31 pm ((PDT))


In a message dated 8/24/2007 7:20:03 PM Pacific Standard Time,
linoleum5017@yahoo.com writes:

I'm confused by the whole bone/meat ratio and how much is in
what.



Mary,

i realize that percentages can be confusing.. the real purpose of the 80%,
10%, 10% is to get you to think about bones being a SMALL portion of the diet,
rather than a large portion of it. Same goes for organs, they are important,
but should not be a major portion.

you want to look for MEAT with a bone in it, not BONE with some meat on it.
does that make any sense?

whole hunks of animals, legs, breasts, rib slabs rather than single ribs.

Catherine R.

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

5a. Re: Not good teeth
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:37 pm ((PDT))

"carnesbill" <carnesw@...> wrote:
> In 4 1/2 years of raw feeding, I have never seen my dogs use front
> teeth to eat with. Yes, often they get a whole picnic pork roast or
> Boston Butt pork roast. They always use side teeth when eating, no
> matter what it is or how large it is.
*****
All I can say darlin' is you're either watching the wrong dogs or
feeding the wrong food.

Chris O

Messages in this topic (13)
________________________________________________________________________

5b. Re: Not good teeth
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:44 pm ((PDT))

"Laura Atkinson" <llatkinson@...> wrote:
>Most especially when they
> get something like a slab o' beef ribs, where there's lots of lovely
nibling
> to be done to get the last bits of connective tissue off before I
take them
> away.
*****
Yep. I was thinking about those beef ribs and that connective tissue.
I almost always have to pluck the sinew from between my dog's incisors
after a rib fest.

> > <lots of snippage>
*****
Ooh!
This is even better than <snippety-snip>! Cool.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (13)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

6a. Re: Skin allergy
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:50 pm ((PDT))

"steph.sorensen" <steph.sorensen@...> wrote:
>> If the bumps don't go away or appear to get worse and you can't
> figure out the problem, I can always ask my co-worker again what
> food she is using for her rescue.
*****
It's Purina H/A or something like that. Fact is, there is probably a
list (although perhaps short) of whole raw meats an "allergic" dog can
gainfully eat.

It's just that allopathic vets tend not to buy into raw diets, thus
preventing many "allergic" dogs from ever experiencing real food.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

7a. Re: Venison Organs/Parts & First Rawfed litte
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:54 pm ((PDT))

"aqualitybeagles" <a-qualitybeagles@...> wrote:
>> It seems as if everyone is alright with the venison. I have not yet
> tried venison organs and I think that it will take some time before
> the whole pack eagerly dives into a carcass, but for a first time with
> such a large piece and with this new meat I think it went well.
*****
My dogs (and cats, too) have always done really well on venison. From
its introduction I could feed heaps of meat and dole out meaty body
parts without producing anything more than mildly loose stools. My
pup's first meal home was vension and nope, not even a hiccup.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

8a. Re: are dogs carnivoirs or omnivoirs
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 9:23 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Mandy!
Make sure your vet does the full thyroid panel and submits
the results for Dr Jean Dodds to interpret and give her diagnostic
report.
http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/diagnostic_testing.htm

For answers about carnivore vs. omnivore, look at the dog's wild
cousins, the wolves; the ones they share DNA and can interbreed with.
Ask yourself, what would the wolf do?
'nuff said. : )
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey


> I agree, Carol! And I appreciate your honesty! I have had my doubts
> about her in the past and have often thought of changing....
> As far as the diet, I want to first observe the way my dogs react to
> the raw diet and use my own judgment from there. I am a skeptic until
> I see results for myself.
> Thank You again,
> Mandy


Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

8b. Re: are dogs carnivoirs or omnivoirs
Posted by: "mandajenwalker" walker1031@chartermi.net mandajenwalker
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 6:08 am ((PDT))

Thank You Giselle,
I will do that! I agree with everyone that dogs are in fact
carnivoirs. I was blown away when my doctor told me they were
"omnivoirs"....

Thanks again,
Mandy

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Giselle" <megan.giselle@...> wrote:
>
> Hi, Mandy!
> Make sure your vet does the full thyroid panel and submits
> the results for Dr Jean Dodds to interpret and give her diagnostic
> report.
> http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/diagnostic_testing.htm
>
> For answers about carnivore vs. omnivore, look at the dog's wild
> cousins, the wolves; the ones they share DNA and can interbreed with.
> Ask yourself, what would the wolf do?
> 'nuff said. : )
> TC
> Giselle
> with Bea in New Jersey
>
>
> > I agree, Carol! And I appreciate your honesty! I have had my doubts
> > about her in the past and have often thought of changing....
> > As far as the diet, I want to first observe the way my dogs react to
> > the raw diet and use my own judgment from there. I am a skeptic until
> > I see results for myself.
> > Thank You again,
> > Mandy
>


Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

9a. Re: Fantastic Score!!!
Posted by: "Lindsay Dorian" iamentropygirl@gmail.com irwin_bird
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 9:41 pm ((PDT))

The heads are arriving tonight - not guts unfortunately since they were
removed by the supplier before delivery but it's a go for the heads...

I am a bit ashamed to admit that I was picturing feeding the heads for
breaky (followed by a nice boneless dinner) maybe in a big bowl like some
sort of macabre breakfast cereal : )

Lindsay


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

10a. Beef Ribs
Posted by: "jmwise80" jmwise80@yahoo.com jmwise80
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 9:42 pm ((PDT))

I just saw in another post someone mention beef ribs. The only beef
bone that I have fed is some oxtail, which was mostly consumable for my
dog.

How edible are beef ribs?

My dog is one of those that starts on one end and goes to the other.
Eventually he will start picking off meat, but not before he gives the
bone his best shot.

Are beef ribs much harder than pork ribs? Just curious. We are trying
to expand the big complicated meals that we have and beef ribs would be
something I know I can get. I was just trying to get a heads up if
beef ribs were something you would take away from a big shot chewer.
He would try to eat a whole beef shank if I let him.


Michael Wise

Messages in this topic (9)
________________________________________________________________________

10b. Re: Beef Ribs
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 11:16 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Michael!
I occasionally feed beef ribs, they're cheap enough, and
the market where I get them will cut them to order. But, they are
fatty, and not very meaty either. Also, They are pretty hard and my
girl only chews the ends off. Being beef, they are pretty dense, I
would categorize them as tooth breakers, if your dog is a determined
cruncher, but some peeps feed 'em to their dogs, who eat them entirely.

Why not feed whole pork shoulder roasts or fresh hams? They are pretty
big, pretty cheap, and engaging, with a big bone that is entirely
consumable. There's fat, but a lot of meat, and skin, too. Lamb breast
ribs are somewhat cheap, but are fatty, but soft. I will feed whole
pork neck bones with beef or veal heart or chicken gizzards or
sometimes ground beef frozen to them - not *too* large, but Bea likes
them, with meat added.

What about whole turkeys? Large, complicated, and edible bones. Not to
mention, cheap, too.

TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey


> I just saw in another post someone mention beef ribs. The only beef
> bone that I have fed is some oxtail, which was mostly consumable for my
> dog.
>
> How edible are beef ribs?
>
> My dog is one of those that starts on one end and goes to the other.
> Eventually he will start picking off meat, but not before he gives the
> bone his best shot.
>
> Are beef ribs much harder than pork ribs? Just curious. We are trying
> to expand the big complicated meals that we have and beef ribs would be
> something I know I can get. I was just trying to get a heads up if
> beef ribs were something you would take away from a big shot chewer.
> He would try to eat a whole beef shank if I let him.
>
>
> Michael Wise
>


Messages in this topic (9)
________________________________________________________________________

10c. Re: Beef Ribs
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 4:24 am ((PDT))

Beef ribs seem quite a bit harder than pork ribs for my dog. He's a 20
lb. Boston (strong jaw, power chewer). He can do pork ribs fine. He'd
probably do beef ribs, too, just like he used to do the beef marrow and
knuckle bones before I knew better. But he's got a couple chipped
teeth from those. So now, I'll let him clean off the beef ribs and
maybe nibble the end a little, but then I take them away. If your dog
is bigger, they might be ok. I know Yassy's Corgi eats them. What do
y'all with bigger dogs think?

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "jmwise80" <jmwise80@...> wrote:
>
> How edible are beef ribs?


Messages in this topic (9)
________________________________________________________________________

10d. Re: Beef Ribs
Posted by: "woofwoofgrrl" cmc4lists1@gastrounit.com woofwoofgrrl
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 5:49 am ((PDT))

My dogs LOVE beef ribs. I have two whippets and a border collie - 25 -
45lbs. None of them eat the bone, although they will nibble the ends a
bit. It's an engaging meal that they really enjoy, it keeps 'em busy for
a nice while!
Christine


Laurie Swanson wrote:
>
>
> Beef ribs seem quite a bit harder than pork ribs for my dog. He's a 20
> lb. Boston (strong jaw, power chewer). He can do pork ribs fine. He'd
> probably do beef ribs, too, just like he used to do the beef marrow and
> knuckle bones before I knew better. But he's got a couple chipped
> teeth from those. So now, I'll let him clean off the beef ribs and
> maybe nibble the end a little, but then I take them away. If your dog
> is bigger, they might be ok. I know Yassy's Corgi eats them. What do
> y'all with bigger dogs think?
>
> Laurie


Messages in this topic (9)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

11.1. Re: question
Posted by: "Katie" kcrockett@mac.com kcrockettla7
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 9:43 pm ((PDT))

no - she has never pattycaked . . . nor did either of the 2 other schips who are waiting for me
at the Bridge.

but she LOVES her brand new raw diet . . . she is 13 years old, and the alpha dog in our
household, which includes, not only my 2 goldens and border/aussie mis, but also the
assorted golden rescue who reside here while waiting for forever homes!!

...katie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Giselle" <megan.giselle@...> wrote:
>
> Oooh, a Schippy! I miss my little Perky. : (
> Kiss 'n hug your little black dog for me, Katie. Does he pattycake?


Messages in this topic (76)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

12a. Re: Okay rawfeeders, riddle me this...
Posted by: "Kelly P" picklesrfree@yahoo.com picklesrfree
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 9:43 pm ((PDT))

The biggest thing I give my dog so far is either pork shoulder or beef
brisket. The brisket I tend to bring home, cut up into pound hunks,
and keep a few days worth in the fridge with the rest in my freezer.
The pork shoulder, however I give to her whole. She eats until she's
full, and the shoulder goes in the fridge. The shoulder is usually
small enough to fit in my fridge. The brisket, however, takes up too
much room, otherwise I would avoid freezing it as well.

I live in texas where it can get very hot and humid. My dog eats
outside. She loves to drop her meat in the dirt, drag on the grass,
and then eat it. It can sit out there with her for an hour or a little
more before I bring it back into the house. I usually rinse off the
dirt/bark she's accumulated on it, stick it in a large tub/pot/what
have you, and in the fridge it goes. I have not had a problem feeding
this way. I have had a shoulder start smelling funny after about 5
days of this, but now my girl is big enough to get through one in about
3. I have also done this with turkey carcasses.

Kelly

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

13a. Re: vegetarian who wants to start feeding my ill 6 month old puppy r
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 10:44 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Rhonda!
YQW and thanks for the info about your dog.

My suggestions would be to keep her on 3 meals a day, maybe even add a
meal.

With Diabetes, keeping the blood sugar level; from rising too high, or
dipping too low is important, so small meals interspersed throughout
the entire day would be ideal. Is she on insulin?

With Pancreatitis, you want to avoid cooked fats and oils, especially
plant based oils which a dog cannot process properly. Don't eliminate
fats from the diet, but try to trim all visible fat, and feed leaner
meats.

For supplements, an enzyme supp can your dog help digest foods until
his digestive system is adjusted to eating raw. Feed a good quality
human grade enzyme, adjusted for your dog's size with meals.

A probiotic can help also, but needs to be fed in between meals.
Again, feed a good quality human grade probiotic that has to be
refrigerated. No milk, sugars (even fructose), soy or plant based
ingredients should be in it.

My recommendation to begin feeding a raw diet would be to chuck the
kibble! Donate it to your local animal shelter, if you don't want to
'waste' it. Even expensive kibble is inappropriate for a carnivore.
Dogs, and wolves, need meat, fat, and bone. The herbivores eat the
vegetation, the carnivores eat the herbivores, and they both get the
nutrition that they each need, in the form that each can process.

Go to the store, and buy some chickens or chicken parts. Whole
chickens are better.

You don't say what breed or weight or size your pup is, so I'm going
to say start by feeding, by weight; 2-3% of your pups estimated ideal
adult weight. This is just a guideline to start with, you can and
should adjust the amounts as she grows.

Cut the chickens into parts, a heavy duty kitchen shears a work well.
Trim off the visible fat. Divide the total daily amount by 3 meals, or
4 meals, and feed accordingly. Keep a few days worth of meals in the
fridge, the rest can go in the freezer. I reuse/recycle plastic
baggies for raw meals by putting the empty baggies back in the freezer
for next time.

You can toss the gizzards and heart in with a bony meal, like a leg
quarter or drumstick. Cut the liver up in tiny bits, freeze them in a
baggie and feed one tiny bit at a meal, as liver can be very loosening.

Feed this way for a week, or two. Your pup should respond well to the
smaller, more frequent meals, dosing with the supps at appropriate
times, and raw meat and bone!

Your pup may have loose, even runny poops at first, or intermittently,
there is some adjustment from kibble to raw. You can feed a little
Slippery Elm Bark Powder to soothe her gut if this happens;
http://fiascofarm.com/herbs/supplements.htm

Sprinkle it on her meals, or make meatballs with 1 tsp of SEBP to 1
ounce raw ground or chopped chicken. Feed 1 - 1 oz. meatball per meal.

Add another protein, like turkey, or pork, or rabbit, fish, beef or
lamb - one at a time and feed each for a week or two until adjusted,
then add another. Remember, we are aiming for feeding a species
appropriate raw whole prey model diet - thats the ideal. Most of us
have to settle for feeding body parts, but we feed as much protein,
body part and organ variety as we can, over time. The general rule of
thumb is; 80% meat(muscle, fat, connective tissue) 10% edible bone and
10% organ (half of that should be liver).

Cooking raw meat changes the composition of it, and makes it harder
for a dog to digest. Feeding just meat, especially cooked meat, and no
edible bone, can cause sloppy stools in a pup that isn't used to
anything but kibble.

While you are feeding through several chickens, read the daily
messages, even ones you think won't pertain to your specific
situation, read up on the archives, using keywords such as; new to
raw, newbie, help, diabetes, pancreatitis, EPI, etc. Read the files,
and visit and read the links.

Here is a list to help you source meats;
> where do you look for meat suppliers?

Permission to repost from Lis

1) look up meat and poultry packers, processors, and distributors in
the yellow pages. You may be able to get great prices from them if
you order in bulk, and/or they may have a discount outlet that is
open to the public.
2) I get many of my best deals in Asian/Oriental markets. I've also
heard that Hispanic and Caribbean markets have great variety and
prices too.
3) you may be able to join a barter group.
4) google breeders (i.e. rabbit, goat, lamb, etc.) who are in your
geographic area. They may have culls they want to get rid of, or
lower prices overall.
5) look up bulk suppliers and frozen bulk foods in your yellow pages.
6) if you have a Chinatown nearby, definitely make a visit.
7) let your friends, relatives, and neighbors know you want any
freezer burn or old meat when they clean out their freezers, and tell
them to pass the word along.
8) if you belong to a church or social group, tell those members to
mention it to their friends and relatives as well.
9) see if there are any co-ops or meat buying groups near you. Check
on Yahoo, or google to see.
10) try Craigslist - it's amazing what you can get for free or cheap.
11) and I get meat and fish all the time (for free) through
Freecycle. Join multiple lists if there are a few close by.
12) some Wal-marts and some Costcos and some Sams Clubs have good
deals, but you may want to make sure it's not seasoned meat.
13) definitely watch the the flyers, and you can usually see the rest
of the flyers online (the ones that don't get delivered to your house,
but are only a short drive away).
14) *** hands down, the bulk of my best deals have been marked down
meat at regular grocery stores. They reduce it the day before it is
going to expire, and I go as early as I can to get it before it is
gone.
15) tell friends and relatives who hunt and fish that you want first
dibs on any body parts they don't. You can probably get at least the
organs and maybe the head. Also ask them to put you in touch with
their other friends who hunt and fish.
16) a great tip I learned here a while back â€" some restaurants
throw out things they don't use, like the organs that come inside
whole poultry, or raw meat that falls on the floor. see if they'll
save them for you. Find somebody who knows somebody who works there.
17) farmer's markets are great, but pick and choose carefully for the
best bargains. and sometimes at the end of the day some vendors will
reduce their prices, cause they don't want to take it back with them.
18) some people contact taxidermists, who have no use for the meat.
19) find people on this list from your vicinity, and ask them where
they get their meat deals. Join other raw feeding lists (there are
many), and ask if there are other raw feeders in your area.
20) tell your butcher you want the meat that they would normally
throw out, that is almost out of date, that people ordered and didn't
pick up, stuff that was dropped on the floor, their freezer
cleanouts, and parts that don't sell (like trachea, lungs, spleen,
etc.). Some butchers will save their trim for you (once they get to
know you). Build a relationship with them first.
21) yes, roadkill works too (where it is legal). In some places you
can get your name on the list and get called when they have large
roadkill (like deer)
22) you can raise your own meat/poultry if you have the room
23) post a message in CarnivoreFeed-Supplier or CFS-Canada if you are
in North America:
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/CarnivoreFeed-Supplier/
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/CFS-Canada/
24) speak to local farmers
25) also look for heart, tongue, and gizzards which count as meat (as
opposed to organ) in the world of raw feeding, but are often cheaper
than other muscle meats
26) find somebody who knows somebody who works at the grocery store.
They can introduce you to the meat guy, who may become more willing
to save stuff for you or reduce items about to expire, once they know
you.
27) check the internet. Some suppliers have affordable prices, even
after shipping costs are calculated.

Lis

Post when you have more Qs or a problem, or just to keep us updated!
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey


Hi Giselle,

She was diagnosed at the ripe old age of 4 months; she was having
diarrhea and was lethargic Friday of Memorial weekend I took her to
the vet who took a blood test on her and her blood sugar was 600,
normal is 80 to 150 she had to stay at the emergency vet all weekend
[which was a small fortune I might add] they did the test for EPI and
she had that too.
<snip>

Thanks for the encouragement.

Rhonda
> Oh Sorry you said to remind you of what I have been feeding:I am just
> going to copy and past from my other post so here it is?I feed her 3
> to 4 times a day � teaspoon of BioCase V, and a omega 3 capsule, a
> probiotic timed released tablet, in clover enzymes for dogs
> [Prebiotic: Fructooligosaccharides, Enzyme Blend: Acid Stable
> Protease, Amylase, Lipase, Cellulase. No fillers, lactose, sugar,
> preservatives or animal products]
> mixed with plain organic yogurt, sometimes organic eggs, sometimes
> broiled salmon, with the ingredients of the current dry dog food
> which is Castor and Pollux <snip>


Messages in this topic (17)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

14a. worms, bones, old dogs
Posted by: "financialcongratulatory" jess.hamway@gmail.com financialcongratulatory
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 4:21 am ((PDT))

Is it possible for a dog to get worms from eating raw meat?

Also, what bones are edible besides chicken bones? If those are the
only edible bones than that means I should be feeding some chicken
daily, no?

Is there anything I should be doing differently for an older dog?

Thanks!

Jess and Toby

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

All information on this list represents personal opinion only. By staying on this list, you agree to never hold anyone from this list or associated with this list liable for any information posted through this list. You agree to take personal responsibility for your learning, and for personal responsibility for what you feed yourself, your family, and your dogs, cats, ferrets, or any other animal that lives under your care. If you don't agree, please unsubscribe immediately.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/

<*> Your email settings:
Digest Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/join

(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:rawfeeding-normal@yahoogroups.com
mailto:rawfeeding-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
rawfeeding-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:

http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


------------------------------------------------------------------------