Feed Pets Raw Food: [rawfeeding] Digest Number 11957

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Beef Ribs
From: cmhausrath
1b. Re: Beef Ribs
From: Yasuko herron
1c. Re: Beef Ribs
From: Morledzep@aol.com
1d. Re: Beef Ribs
From: jmwise80

2a. HELP! They are still not pooping and one threw up!
From: coriowen
2b. Re: HELP! They are still not pooping and one threw up!
From: magolin0328
2c. Re: HELP! They are still not pooping and one threw up!
From: Olga
2d. Re: HELP! PLEASE ANSWER THE BOTTOM QUESTIONS, PLEASE!
From: coriowen
2e. Re: HELP! They are still not pooping and one threw up!
From: Yasuko herron
2f. Re: HELP! They are still not pooping and one threw up!
From: tottime47
2g. Re: HELP! PLEASE ANSWER THE BOTTOM QUESTIONS, PLEASE!
From: Yasuko herron
2h. Re: HELP! PLEASE ANSWER THE BOTTOM QUESTIONS, PLEASE!
From: coriowen
2i. Re: HELP! PLEASE ANSWER THE BOTTOM QUESTIONS, PLEASE!
From: Morledzep@aol.com
2j. Re: HELP! PLEASE ANSWER THE BOTTOM QUESTIONS, PLEASE!
From: Sandee Lee

3a. Re: worms, bones, old dogs
From: cmhausrath

4a. stumped my vet
From: DebiC
4b. Re: stumped my vet
From: Sandee Lee

5a. Re: are dogs carnivoirs or omnivoirs
From: tottime47

6a. Recreational or treat bones
From: kalina82
6b. Re: Recreational or treat bones
From: Yasuko herron

7a. Re: Kidney Failure
From: cypressbunny

8a. Re: Diabetes and Raw Feeding
From: Rhonda

9a. Re: Slippery Elm powder
From: Yasuko herron

10a. The Constipation has started...
From: mandajenwalker
10b. Re: The Constipation has started...
From: Sandee Lee

Messages
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1a. Re: Beef Ribs
Posted by: "cmhausrath" cmhausrath@yahoo.com cmhausrath
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 6:28 am ((PDT))

"jmwise80" <jmwise80@...> wrote:

> How edible are beef ribs?
> My dog is one of those that starts on one end and goes to the
other.
> Eventually he will start picking off meat, but not before he gives
the
> bone his best shot.

Depends on the dog! My dog is also a start-on-one-end-and-chomp-
straight-through kinda guy, with most everything. The first couple
times I gave him beef ribs, he did exactly the same thing: motored
straight through, consuming bone & all. Once he got more used to
eating raw, he stopped consuming the bone and just picked them
clean. He still chews the ends off, and occasionally eats a rib or
two, but mostly he just leaves clean bones for me to pick up. Check
out the beef rib gallery on www.rawfeddogs.net:
http://rawfeddogs.net/RecipePhotos/9

> Are beef ribs much harder than pork ribs?

Yes, IME. Griffin does plow straight through pork ribs, without
fail, leaving nothing at all for me to pick up. But I personally
don't worry about beef ribs (or necks, or tails) being too dense to
eat -- I figure if Griffin wants to go to the effort of chomping them
down, that's his prerogative.

I do agree with Giselle that there are lots of options for good
challenging big meals -- all the ones she mentioned, plus six-way cut
goat or lamb, venison ribs or backs, and whatever else you can find
(Chris O gets whole fetal goats -- wow!!) -- but I still think
there's a place for racks of beef ribs. They're a uniquely engaging
meal, at least for Griff.

-- sandy & griffin

Messages in this topic (13)
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1b. Re: Beef Ribs
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 11:10 am ((PDT))

> I know Yassy's Corgi eats them.

Hi,Laurie.

Yea,I don't know why she can cranch bone so well on almost anything but yes,my dog's jaw seems pretty strong.

She can eat
+Beef Short Rib Bone all
+Beef neck All but one time,she left about 30% for me to pick up
+Buffalo Ribs All
+Pork Neck All
+Pork Feet all
+Lamb Rib all
+Lamb Neck all
+ Elk Rib All but one time left 20% to pick up for me
+Goat Rib All
+Goat Neck all

Hardest/Challenging seemed to be Buffalo Rib and Beef Neck and Beef Rib.Those took my dog consume 90 min average. For Pork feet,about 60 min.

I will give her cow hooves and ox tail this end of this month so,I can tell you how she did after that.

By the way,those who does not know me,my dog is Corgi turning to 2 year old this August 29th and,shebeen on raw about 3 months plus now.

Each dog has different jaw strength,so, my advise who is thinking if the bone is ok to give or not,I say try feed and see how your dogs do.I take bone away if the dog did not make any progress after long time.And supervise your dog and don't leave the dog alone with bone.

yassy

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Messages in this topic (13)
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1c. Re: Beef Ribs
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 1:30 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 8/25/2007 3:24:56 AM Pacific Standard Time,
laurie@mckinneyphoto.com writes:

If your dog
is bigger, they might be ok. I know Yassy's Corgi eats them. What do
y'all with bigger dogs think?

Laurie,

the real aggressive bone chewing usually stops after a few months, my dogs
used to try to power chew beef ribs. But after they realized that the diet was
permanent and they are settled into the routine, they don't, when they get
beef ribs they each get a whole slab and then i spend the next 3 days picking up
bare naked rib bones that are left behind.

oh.. and for reference purposes.. my dogs are 60 - 150 lbs, average about
80ish lbs. and there are 9 of them. 2 wolfdogs, 2 akitas, 1 pit bull, 1 collie,
1 golden, 1 american bulldog, and 1 great dane.

Catherine R.

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Messages in this topic (13)
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1d. Re: Beef Ribs
Posted by: "jmwise80" jmwise80@yahoo.com jmwise80
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 1:37 pm ((PDT))

Thanks all! I'll give 'em a go and just see how he treats them. I
hadn't fed them before and didn't know how they were. Our hunting
seasons start in a few months so hopefully engaging meals will be a
plenty around here. I know he'll eat deer, but if I can get him to eat
squirrel, dove, fish, and duck I won't have to buy very much this
year. Crossing my fingers.

Michael Wise

Messages in this topic (13)
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2a. HELP! They are still not pooping and one threw up!
Posted by: "coriowen" COwen98@aol.com coriowen
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 6:39 am ((PDT))

I am not very happy this morning after my husband and I spent all
night waking up with our two Dachshunds either wanting to go out to
TRY to go poop and NOTHING coming out but just some small amount of
liquid to other times them needing to go out and trying to go and
nothing would come out! We did this aboug 5 times last night and the
night before. I feel soo sorry for these two. I wish I wouldn't
have switched at this point, they look like they are miserable.
Their tummies are gurgling and my two year old Dachshund even threw
up bile early this morning around 5 am. Is any or all of this
normal? I did take the two year old temp and it is 100.6, so she is
ok there and they are acting ok but this is MISERABLE for them, JUST
MISERABLE. How many days do they have to get acclamated or will
they. The two year old did have a nice solid poop after a walk
yesterday evening but that has been the ONLY good one either of them
have had since I started them on Wed. I gave them pepto and immodiom
(sp?) last night. I don't know if that was right or wrong but they
are just non-stop and we hate watching them go through this. The
first two feedings they got chicken with the bone left in and
yesterday they got just chicken with no bone. WHAT ELSE CAN I DO?
Should I feed them two times a day? I have also given them Omega 3
capsule Wed. forgot on Thurs and gave them yesterday. I'm sorry this
is so long but I am very concerned about my girls!
Cori

Messages in this topic (10)
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2b. Re: HELP! They are still not pooping and one threw up!
Posted by: "magolin0328" maggie.taylor@artlover.com magolin0328
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 8:16 am ((PDT))

You could always try feeding some organ meat. It generally goes the
opposite direction so you may wind up with diarrhea, but at least
they'd go. I'd also not give much, if any bone for a day or two. Too
much bone tends to plug things up.

Maggie
Diesel, SDIT

Messages in this topic (10)
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2c. Re: HELP! They are still not pooping and one threw up!
Posted by: "Olga" olga.drozd@gmail.com olga_d
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 9:20 am ((PDT))

When we started to feed raw the much reduced poop volume was a very
welcome change. It sounds like one of them is doing fine in the poop
department, when is the last time the other one went?

Can you give me a quick summary of what chicken parts you fed, when,
and how much of it? Are you feeding one meal a day?

BTW, I suspect that the bile is just because raw digests faster than
kibble and her stomach is just not used to that yet.

Olga

Messages in this topic (10)
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2d. Re: HELP! PLEASE ANSWER THE BOTTOM QUESTIONS, PLEASE!
Posted by: "coriowen" COwen98@aol.com coriowen
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 10:39 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Olga" <olga.drozd@...> wrote:
>
> When we started to feed raw the much reduced poop volume was a very
> welcome change. It sounds like one of them is doing fine in the
poop
> department, when is the last time the other one went?

I'm not sure I understand how you think either is doing well in the
poop dept unless you think my 10 month old that has diarhhea, still,
is doing well. It's the 2 year old that I thought was fine yesterday
evening after our walk that she produced a solid, not hard, poop, and
by the night and through out the early morning would try to go and
nothing or just a drop or two of mucousy brown poo. My husband was
taking care of the 10month old throughout the night and did say that
she had diarrhea on the carpet once, so she is still going but it is
watery.
>
> Can you give me a quick summary of what chicken parts you fed, when,
> and how much of it? Are you feeding one meal a day?
If you go back and read my original post from this morning you can
see when I fed. They are only getting fed once a day. I am about to
feed them again, and no bones again today just like yesterday. I fed
them thighs the first day with bones and breasts with no bones
yesterday and in a few minutes. I don't have any organs to feed them
by the way. I asked at both of my local stores here in my little
town and neither carry that unless, I am not thinking of something
that I can go get for them but for right now I just have the boneless
chicken breasts.>
> BTW, I suspect that the bile is just because raw digests faster than
> kibble and her stomach is just not used to that yet.

DO YOU THINK I SHOULD BE FEEDING THEM MORE THAN ONCE A DAY AND DO YOU
THINK I SHOULD BE GIVING THEM SOME PEPTO FOR THEIR TUMMIES? THEY
BOTH WILL NOT LEAVE THE BACK DOOR TO GO OUT, IS THIS NORMAL??? WE
CAN'T LEAVE THEM OUTSIDE, IT'S ALMOST 100 DEGREES HERE IN TEXAS AND
WITH THE HEAT INDEX IT'S OVER 100 DEGREES THEY ARE NOT USED TO BEING
OUT THAT MUCH. DID ANYONE ELSE'S DOGS NEED TO GO OUT THIS MUCH AT
FIRST AND DID THEIR STOMACH MAKE SO MUCH NOISE? I feel terrible for
how bad these girls feel, terrible. =(
>
> Olga
>

Messages in this topic (10)
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2e. Re: HELP! They are still not pooping and one threw up!
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 11:09 am ((PDT))

>I spent all night waking up with our two Dachshunds either wanting to go out to
>TRY to go poop and NOTHING coming out

Hi. I think your dog is constipated so,why don't you..

1>Go for walking ;walking encourage bowel movement and,naturally it helps to get the dog go poo

2> Feed less bone and more meat;Too much bone causeconstipation.
What are you feeding?I mean,you wrote you feeding chicken but, are you feeding already cut up chicken or whole chicken cut up by yourselves?

It ispossible that dog maybe digested all you gave to them,but if you seeing dog trying to go and no poo all the time,maybe too much bone is my guess.why don't you try feeding less bone parts?

Example>if you are feeding Leg quarter and you see this no poo days,why don't you switch to chicken breast with rib bone(more meat andless bone)

If you are feeding bunch of chicken wings,it maybe the culprit due bony parts not much meat there.If you wanted to feed chicken wings,you feed it attached or feed with hunk of boneless meat.

>Their tummies are gurgling and my two year old Dachshund even threw up bile early this >morning around 5 am.
Usually,bile means the dog is hungry.Did you feed any?

>How many days do they have to get acclamated or will they.

This is just my judgement I would use if my dog did not do poo but,I will probably wait about 3 days and regardless waht you feed and no poo,I go vet and see what is going on.

>The two year old did have a nice solid poop after a walk yesterday evening but that has >been the ONLY good one either of them have had since I started them on Wed.

If you just started,then,it could means that the dog digested everything you fed. But if the dog trying to go and nothing comes out.. I still think too much bone in meal.And, when just started,don't expect having all solid nice poo. They need adjustment time.

>The first two feedings they got chicken with the bone left in and yesterday they got just >chicken with no bone. WHAT ELSE CAN I DO?

Feed less bone is my first choice.

> I have also given them Omega 3 capsule Wed. forgot on Thurs and gave them yesterday.

You can go slow to give anything and dog without supplements for some weeks are still fine. Relax.

Fish oil capsul is not medecine and no big deal even if you forgot to give.

yassy

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2f. Re: HELP! They are still not pooping and one threw up!
Posted by: "tottime47" tottime@aol.com tottime47
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 11:10 am ((PDT))

Hi Cori,

Are you reading any of the other posts? At least a half dozen in the
last day or so have talked about slippery elm bark for digestion.

Go to walmart, any drug store or health food store and buy a bottle,
it's not that expensive......It's in the vitamin section........

Search for past posts on this site about Slippery Elm Bark or just
read the last few
days emails to get the right dosage and how to give.

You can sprinkle it on their food or make up with hamburger (little
balls) and give them 3 or 4 doses today....It should help their
tummys and stools....

Make sure the first meals ALL have bone in them to keep their stools
firmer.
Best way to do that is get several WHOLE CHICKENS and cut them up
into serving pieces...
Feed through those chickens before giving any other meats....freeze
any gizzards,
livers, necks that come with the chicken for later...

When a dog new to raw throws up bile, it's because they have an
empty tummy.
You can offer a little chunk of chicken or two for a snack till
mealtime...

Skip the pepto and immodiom, slippery elm is better and safer..
Skip the Omega 3 for now as it can also cause looser stools till
the dog is used to it.

Give two meals instead of one....too much food at one sitting can
also cause loose stools.......

The best thing you can do for your dogs is take time to read past
emils.
Search feeding on the site and just read.....your dogs are sadly
reacting normally to being started improperly.....How do I know?
Because I started my first dog off this way too and had the same
problems! I was much better 5 months later
and when we got Moli 6 wks ago, she's not had any
problems...........I just wish I
hadn't been so dumb and read a few past emails on how to start
and a few of the great sites so often quoted here, but I thought oh
it's so easy, just throw them the meat, well it is that easy once
you've done it a few times or weeks, lol., but when you
have dogs that have been on k***le for a long time, there are almost
always problems as the poor dog no longer has the enzymes and
probotics at a healthy level to allow him to digest properly.You
have to go slow and allow their body to build up those levels (IMHO)

Yes, there are some dogs who start out and have cast iron stomachs
or maybe the owners got it right from the beginning.....but I'm only
relating my own experiences here..lol

I hope this helps some. Hang in there and know you're doing the best
thing for their health and mind......

I know, you should see mine now!

Carol, Charkee & Moli

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "coriowen" <COwen98@...> wrote:

Messages in this topic (10)
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2g. Re: HELP! PLEASE ANSWER THE BOTTOM QUESTIONS, PLEASE!
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 11:18 am ((PDT))

>I'm not sure I understand how you think either is doing well in the
>poop dept unless you think my 10 month old that has diarhhea, still,
>is doing well.

Hi.Ok,so,one of your dog has watery diarrhea and other older dog has hard time pooing but comes out goey poo?

Then,don't feed the fish oil now to your dogs.Oil makes poo softer.It could help.
And,maybe,if you are feeding younger one once in one day,then,maybe younger one being fed too much at once.Why don't you feed smaller portion and feed throughout theday?
Too much food cause diarrhea.

If that did not help,feed more bone.More bone makes poo firmer.And try giving either probiotic with meal or slippery Elms when your dog had diarrhea.It clear up very good.

> It's the 2 year old that I thought was fine yesterday evening after our walk that she >produced a solid, not hard, poop, and by the night and through out the early morning would >try to go and nothing or just a drop or two of mucousy brown poo.

So,from this writing.. older one has soft poo problems then?

mucous shows that dog try to get rid of thing that is irritating their stomack. Give both of your dogs water to avoid dehydration from diarrhea.

And if that consists,then fast them.And next time you feed,don't feed fish oil and just plain chicken maybe want to try chicken skin off for a while.Too much fat also cause loose/diarrhea problems.

> I am about to feed them again, and no bones again today just like yesterday.

ok, boneless meat makes poo softer so,if you have problems with goey poo/softer poo,feed more bones.

> I don't have any organs to feed them by the way.

Again,don't feed organ if you have goey poo problems.organ makes poo softer and it helps when you have constipated dog.

I thought that you had constipated dog so,I said feed more meat andI think Olga wason same page to me so she suggested to feed organ to go poo easy,but if you had softer poo problems,do oposit;more bones.

And, as for organs,if you buy whole chicken you get couple of giblet bag inside andyou get liver heart etc and you also can get tab of chicken liver around chicken meat area at grocery store.

If I were you I would not feed organ until you know that your dog does fine on chicken.

So, no fish oil,no organ and just feed chicken removing some of chicken skin for a couple of days and get them used to chicken first if not constipated but softer poo or diarrhea.

yassy

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2h. Re: HELP! PLEASE ANSWER THE BOTTOM QUESTIONS, PLEASE!
Posted by: "coriowen" COwen98@aol.com coriowen
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:24 pm ((PDT))

Thank you Yassy. We feed probiotic to all our horses and it comes in a
powder form for them, can feeding these girls some plain yogurt work
just as well or should I find some probiotics at a health food store?
I am going to follow your advice on the feedings and feed the younger
Dachshund (10 mos old) a few times a day smaller portions and I think I
will feed the 2 year old twice a day. BTW, when I went to feed them a
while ago, the younger one scarfed her boneless chicken breast down and
the two year old acted like she wanted her's at first and then just
sort of walked away until she started to get pressure (stares) from the
younger one and she proceeded to eat the whole thing. The older one
just doesn't seem herself at all. She seems dull and I wouldn't say
lissless but not too spunky. The baby is still hyper as usual but both
have very noisy tummies. Right now they are both sleeping on the
living room floor. I do know that they should injest A LOT of water
when diarrhea is present and they are drinking a lot so they are
staying hydrated and gums are pink. Again, thank you for the help.
Cori
>
> So, no fish oil,no organ and just feed chicken removing some of
chicken skin for a couple of days and get them used to chicken first if
not constipated but softer poo or diarrhea.
>
> yassy
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Luggage? GPS? Comic books?
> Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Messages in this topic (10)
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2i. Re: HELP! PLEASE ANSWER THE BOTTOM QUESTIONS, PLEASE!
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 1:58 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 8/25/2007 9:39:25 AM Pacific Standard Time,
COwen98@aol.com writes:

****i understand your frustration.. but no good can come from yelling at
folks that are trying to help you. Pepto is NOT the answer either.

We are all willing to help, but we aren't getting paid to do so, this list
and participation on this list is entirely voluntary. No one here owes you
anything.

Olga was very nice and very patient with you, and she asked for what you are
feeding. I'm going to ask the same thing, i don't have access to the list
archives to find the post that you claim is there.. and i don't have time to
look, even if i could access it.

If you want help, it's just easier to answer the questions.

Sooo, what exactly are you feeding and to whom are you feeding it? What
kinda dogs, what food, exactly.. then MAYBE we can help you.

i'll tell you this with knowing nothing about your dogs, more bone = harder
poop, and more meat = softer poop.. this is a good guideline to keep in mind
once you're through the initial transition.

ok, from what i can gather you're feeding two dachshunds, it looks to me from
what i can figure out that they both took 2 days to poop after you started
raw? this is normal.

and now one has loose stools and one has firm stools? and one spit up bile?
i'm only guessing by what i can find in my email box at the moment, i can't
find your original posts and i can't access the archives.

these are normal reactions to a change in diet.. first make sure you're not
overfeeding, feeding too much food or too much variety in the beginning is
often a cause of loose stools. second, give it another couple days to let their
digestive systems adjust.

If after a few more days their poop doesn't stabilize then remove the skin
from the chickens they are eating, and check the package the chicken came in to
see if the meat you bought was "enhanced". if it is, change to minimally
processed chicken asap.

And then treat with slippery elm as one other person suggested.

do NOT feed pepto or immodium to either dog for any reason, also no veggies
or grains of any kind. let their systems adjust to the new food naturally.

Catherine R.

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2j. Re: HELP! PLEASE ANSWER THE BOTTOM QUESTIONS, PLEASE!
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 2:06 pm ((PDT))

Hi Cori,

I wouldn't recommend adding yogurt. Many dogs cannot digest dairy products
so you don't want to take the chance on more upsets at this point! :)) You
probably don't really need probiotics either. The more stuff you start
adding, the more you complicate the issue.

I agree that you should feed smaller more frequent meals. Too much food at
one sitting can definitely cause loose stools. I really think that's going
to be the key to resolving this issue.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "coriowen" <COwen98@aol.com>

Messages in this topic (10)
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3a. Re: worms, bones, old dogs
Posted by: "cmhausrath" cmhausrath@yahoo.com cmhausrath
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 6:44 am ((PDT))

"financialcongratulatory" <jess.hamway@...> wrote:

> Is it possible for a dog to get worms from eating raw meat?

Possible? I suppose. Most everything I feed, though, is from human-
food suppliers, so I truly doubt worms are a concern. If you're
getting wild caught meat, you could always freeze it first to kill off
any beasties.

Personally, I've never given it a moment's thought. If I ever see
symptoms in my dog that concern me, perhaps I'd have him tested for
worms, but I don't think a moderate parasite load -- even if he did
have any worms -- is a problem for a healthy critter.

> Also, what bones are edible besides chicken bones?

Oh, my gracious, there's a tremendous list. Really, it depends on the
individual dog, and the only way to find out is to offer something &
see what happens! For my dog, edible bones include any part of
chicken, turkey, duck, pork, venison, lamb, mutton, goat, rabbit, and
of course fish, and non-weight-bearing bones from beef and bison (such
as necks, tails and sometimes ribs).

> Is there anything I should be doing differently for an older dog?

Again, this is dog-dependent: how big is the dog, how old, and how
healthy otherwise? I started rawfeeding Griffin when he was 9ish, and
the only change I've made to accommodate his age is to offer smaller,
more frequent meals. Rather than feeding 3-6 pounds at a time, a few
times a week, I now feed a snack every morning and not more than maybe
2 pounds on any given day, in the evening. Thanks to rawfeeding,
though (IMO, of course), he's aged beautifully. This is him at 10ish,
maybe 6 months after starting raw:
http://rawfeddogs.net/PhotoGalleries/ViewPhoto.php?album=19&pos=1
and this is him this past spring, at 13ish:
http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/photos/view/72b6?
b=1&m=f&o=2

He's grayer, and he's slowing down, but he's healthy, happy, fit, and a
marvelous companion. My only regret is that I didn't start raw feeding
sooner!

-- sandy & griffin

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4a. stumped my vet
Posted by: "DebiC" dcole6@satx.rr.com scarlet_debi
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 7:59 am ((PDT))

Raw Feeding for dogs and cats!I have a very nice vet who insists that dogs are omnivores. I don't know where this came from but she really believes it.

Then I asked her the difference between Jack Russells and Gerrnan Shepards in their nutritional needs. She said mainly the amount. They both need the same foods.

Then I asked her the difference between German Shepards and Wolves. She said one was Canis lupus familiaris (Domestic dog) and the other was Canis lupus nubilus (Great Plains Wolf)
I then asked her what the difference in their nutritional needs. She said Wolves are carnivores and dogs are omnivores. I asked her if she looked at a skeleton if she could tell the difference between a GS and a wolf. She said probably not. Then I asked why is one an omnivore and one a carnivore, they're both canis lupus. She couldn't answer that.

I didn't actually win, but I set her thinking.

Debi Cole

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
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4b. Re: stumped my vet
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 2:20 pm ((PDT))

Hey Debi,

Actually the gray wolf is canis lupis familiaris, just in case you want to
continue this conversation with your vet!! :))

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "DebiC" <dcole6@satx.rr.com>
> Then I asked her the difference between German Shepards and Wolves. She
said one was Canis lupus familiaris (Domestic dog) and the other was Canis
lupus nubilus (Great Plains Wolf)
> I then asked her what the difference in their nutritional needs. She said
Wolves are carnivores and dogs are omnivores. I asked her if she looked at
a skeleton if she could tell the difference between a GS and a wolf. She
said probably not. Then I asked why is one an omnivore and one a carnivore,
they're both canis lupus. She couldn't answer that.

Messages in this topic (2)
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5a. Re: are dogs carnivoirs or omnivoirs
Posted by: "tottime47" tottime@aol.com tottime47
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 8:10 am ((PDT))

Hi Mandy,

No thanks needed, just listen to your intuition, you know your dogs
best........

As for the Raw Diet, once your dogs are on it, you are not
going to believe the changes! All for the better, once you get the
hang of it.......lol

I could go on & on about how much my dogs have gotten healthier, but
will wait to hear from you after a month or so..... (hehehe)

Carol, Charkee & Moli

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "mandajenwalker" <walker1031@...>
wrote:

I have had my doubts
about her in the past and have often thought of changing....
As far as the diet, I want to first observe the way my dogs react
to the raw diet and use my own judgment from there.
Mandy

Messages in this topic (8)
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6a. Recreational or treat bones
Posted by: "kalina82" kalina82@yahoo.com kalina82
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 8:32 am ((PDT))

Hi,

What are some good recreational or treat bones I can give my 4lb
Yorkie (1 year old) to munch on and play with? I've been told a
single beef rib bone or pork rib bone, or turkey neck is good. Is
this true?

Thanks
Kellie

Messages in this topic (2)
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6b. Re: Recreational or treat bones
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 9:43 am ((PDT))

>What are some good recreational or treat bones I can give my 4lbYorkie (1 year old) to >munch on and play with?

Hi. my dog;30lb gets treat/snack/recreationals..

*Chicken feet (should be good for tiny dog.My dog loves them.Dog can consume all)
You can get it at shoppersaround $2 per package

*Chicken Neck ( For tiny dog,Chicken Neck is good size snack I think.Not for big dog that
is gulper)

*Pork ear (If thiswas too big,you can take it away when you think it is enough.It is all
consumable)

*Pork feet (My dog consumed all,but it rather harder than pork rib bone,not as hard as beef
bone.Good recreational.You can take thefeet away when you think it is enough
and give it back when you want to give work out time later)

So far,I can think of these. Turky Neck is huge and one single neck probably weigh around 6pz(little lessthan half pound).It is all consumable. My dog gets it as part of meal with boneless meat.

Pork ribs are quite soft bone so,dog can consume all. I usually feed it aspart of meal with boneless meat.

yassy

---------------------------------
Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
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7a. Re: Kidney Failure
Posted by: "cypressbunny" cypressbunny@yahoo.com cypressbunny
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 8:51 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" <halle4@...> wrote:
>
> High protein is very damaging to kidneys in failure. I was a
dialysis tech in another life and high protein was the enemy of my
patients. I live with an Internist who just verified it for me before
I wrote this to the group.

*** An internist in canine medicine? And I assume you were an dialysis
tech in canine medicine as well? There is some evidence that some
omnivorous species with kidney disease, such as humans and rats, do
better with moderate rather than high levels of protein, but please
present any evidence at all that carnivores with kidney disease need
low protein. As others have already asked... did you read any of the
articles Sandee mentioned?

--Carrie

Messages in this topic (7)
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8a. Re: Diabetes and Raw Feeding
Posted by: "Rhonda" rhonda18@gmail.com rhondabrabbin
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 11:11 am ((PDT))

I went looking for the yahoo group that has a raw diabetic dog group
and couldn't find it can you give me the site adderss?

Thank you

Rhonda

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "emmiemileslouie" <lklora@...>
wrote:
>
> ***MODERATOR'S NOTE: PLEASE TRIM YOUR MESSAGES.***
>
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "doguenanny" <Dixie4911@> wrote:
> >
> > A friend of mine's lab was recently diagnosed with diabetes (she
> said
> > it's the insulin dependent type). I have always talked to her
> about
> > feeding raw, but she never thought about switching. Until now. I
> told
> > her it would be the best thing she could do for her dog,
especially
> > now. I told her I'd try to find some information to send her, but
> I
> > haven't found anything yet that talks about how a raw diet can be
> > beneficial to dogs with diabetes. She's the type of person who
> will
> > want to see specifics (or something close to specifics)......can
> anyone
> > out there point me in the right direction, or does anyone out
there
> > have a dog with diabetes on raw?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Frankie
>
>
> Once again Frankie,
>
> I found that one of the yahoo groups has a raw diabetic dog group.
I
> am not a member but it may be worth your friends time to check it
> out.
> Hope this helps.
>
> Linda
>

Messages in this topic (5)
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9a. Re: Slippery Elm powder
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:24 pm ((PDT))

Thanks,Gisell. So,do you keep ot in fridge or freezer too or room tep is ok to store?

Is it unlimited shelf life?

Palette is looking little perky today and I feel better. She didn't do poo yesterday so,I think things are improving.

Neighbor came our house with pasta salad in return for my Thai Shrimp Curry I brought them yestreday.He brought couple of ... sausage flavored doggy biscuit again.

I put palette way back from entrance so that she would not get the treats,and politely I told him I can't take it due she has tummy prob now.I did not speak about feeding specifically but,I turned the biscuit down.

Gisell,I think I order through the site you put the link in post all the time.

Thanks for your reply

yassy

---------------------------------
Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (13)
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10a. The Constipation has started...
Posted by: "mandajenwalker" walker1031@chartermi.net mandajenwalker
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 1:37 pm ((PDT))

I have been reading some posts on the way to eliminate constipation
but I want to make sure that I have my ducks in a row....
This is day 3 of raw. My female bull terrier (Evie) has been eating
chicken quarters and is now pooping very hard little nuggets. While
pooping these little nuggets she is crying as if it hurts her.
So my question is, do I get organs and give her a little while cutting
back on the chicken quarter? Or do I give her boneless while
eliminating the quarter for a little bit and maybe adding a little
organ?
Please let me know,
thanks
Mandy

Messages in this topic (2)
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10b. Re: The Constipation has started...
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 1:52 pm ((PDT))

Mandy,

Are you feeding twice a day? If so, feed one meal with bone, one without.
I would feed just meat for her next meal.

You can add a little bit of organs but don't overdo it or you may end up
with the opposite problem! :)

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "mandajenwalker" <walker1031@chartermi.net>

My female bull terrier (Evie) has been eating
chicken quarters and is now pooping very hard little nuggets. While
pooping these little nuggets she is crying as if it hurts her.
So my question is, do I get organs and give her a little while cutting
back on the chicken quarter? Or do I give her boneless while
eliminating the quarter for a little bit and maybe adding a little
organ?

Messages in this topic (2)
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Feed Pets Raw Food

Saturday, August 25, 2007

[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11957

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