[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11955

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: to Catherine on feeding toothless pit bull
From: steph.sorensen
1b. Re: to Catherine on feeding toothless pit bull
From: Morledzep@aol.com
1c. Re: to Catherine on feeding toothless pit bull
From: cmhausrath
1d. Re: to Catherine on feeding toothless pit bull
From: Morledzep@aol.com

2a. Re: vegetarian who wants to start feeding my ill 6 month old puppy r
From: Laurie Swanson
2b. Re: vegetarian who wants to start feeding my ill 6 month old puppy r
From: Rhonda
2c. Re: vegetarian who wants to start feeding my ill 6 month old puppy r
From: Laurie Swanson
2d. Re: vegetarian who wants to start feeding my ill 6 month old puppy r
From: Rhonda

3a. Re: Too Much Bone?
From: Laurie Swanson

4a. Re: Kidney Failure
From: woofwoofgrrl
4b. Re: Kidney Failure
From: Casey Post

5a. Re: are dogs carnivoirs or omnivoirs
From: mandajenwalker
5b. Re: are dogs carnivoirs or omnivoirs
From: tottime47
5c. Re: are dogs carnivoirs or omnivoirs
From: mandajenwalker

6. Re: dog with panreatitis
From: Michael Moore

7a. Re: Okay rawfeeders, riddle me this...
From: cypressbunny
7b. Re: Okay rawfeeders, riddle me this...
From: Morledzep@aol.com

8a. Re: 'Hot' vs 'Cooling' foods?
From: Casey Post

9a. Re: Diabetes and Raw Feeding
From: emmiemileslouie
9b. Re: Diabetes and Raw Feeding
From: emmiemileslouie

10a. Hi, just a quick question
From: chrisstfo@aol.com
10b. Re: Hi, just a quick question
From: Sandee Lee
10c. Re: Hi, just a quick question
From: chrisstfo@aol.com
10d. Re: Hi, just a quick question
From: Sandee Lee
10e. Re: Hi, just a quick question
From: Laurie Swanson

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Re: to Catherine on feeding toothless pit bull
Posted by: "steph.sorensen" steph.sorensen@yahoo.com steph.sorensen
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 4:12 pm ((PDT))

LOL, I figured it was a good thing. :) I know at least six hunters
who hunt in the nearby area. And one of them is a major hunter who
has connections to many other hunters.

I also know a few peeps from the local wildlife department here.
They're in charge of checking deer that are shot on state property.
I may be able to sweet talk some "doggie yummies" from them too!

Ooh this is getting exciting!! It is going to be cheap to feed the
pups, and fun to monitor their changes and track their progress on
the new diet!

-Steph

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Morledzep@... wrote:
>
>
> In a message dated 8/24/2007 2:38:09 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> steph.sorensen@... writes:
>
> Okay, let me ask you this. Is it a good thing to accept carcasses
> and what is left over from hunters' kills? I am a biologist and
work
> at an ecological firm with a bunch of guys that hunt. They hunt
deer
> and waterfowl mostly, but if I took their leftovers (carcasses,
misc.
> body parts, and entrails) and froze them until I was ready to feed,
> that is good, is it not? I figure it is the closest thing to
cutting
> them loose and letting them try to bring one down themselves!
>
>
>
> Steph..
>
> absolutely NOT, you must package all that up and send it to me so
my dogs
> can check it and approve of it before you give it to your dogs..
lol.
>
> all kidding aside,that's GREAT.. i would give my right arm to be
able to get
> that kind of meat for my dogs..
>
> Catherine R.
>
>
>
> ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-
new AOL at
> http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Messages in this topic (17)
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1b. Re: to Catherine on feeding toothless pit bull
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 5:32 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 8/24/2007 3:12:37 PM Pacific Standard Time,
steph.sorensen@yahoo.com writes:

Ooh this is getting exciting!! It is going to be cheap to feed the
pups, and fun to monitor their changes and track their progress on
the new diet!

Steph,

now you are required to share the wealth.. pack up a 60lb box of frozen
venison and send it to me.. say.. once a month.. hehehe.

Catherine R.

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (17)
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1c. Re: to Catherine on feeding toothless pit bull
Posted by: "cmhausrath" cmhausrath@yahoo.com cmhausrath
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 7:09 pm ((PDT))

Morledzep@... wrote:

> most of the hunters i know go far away
> to hunt and don't carry back the entire carcass and i can't convince
them to
> bring it back for me.

Perhaps because they know of the problems dogs in elk can cause:
http://alumni.media.mit.edu/~solan/dogsinelk/

-- sandy & griffin (who wishes dearly that he had an elk of his very
own)

Messages in this topic (17)
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1d. Re: to Catherine on feeding toothless pit bull
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 7:25 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 8/24/2007 6:10:49 PM Pacific Standard Time,
cmhausrath@yahoo.com writes:

Perhaps because they know of the problems dogs in elk can cause:
_http://alumni.media.mit.edu/~solan/dogsinelk/_

(http://alumni.media.mit.edu/~solan/dogsinelk/)

lol Sandy.. i sent that to all new raw feeders i know..

Catherine R.

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (17)
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2a. Re: vegetarian who wants to start feeding my ill 6 month old puppy r
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 4:12 pm ((PDT))

Hi again Rhonda!

Fish wouldn't be my first choice for a sick, newbie dog. Especially
mahi-mahi. It's not a wolf's/dog's most natural food and we've had a
couple bad fish experiences here. Although many dogs like it and do
well with certain types, I'd go back to whatever other raw meat she was
doing well on. Remind us what you've been doing and for how long and
let us know what you're trying to do currently (increase variety?
solve a certain problem?) and we can help.

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Rhonda" <rhonda18@...> wrote:
last night gave her Mahi
> Mahi fish very rare, could bring myself to give it to her raw, I am
> going to have to ease into this, but this morning she had diarrhea!

Messages in this topic (16)
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2b. Re: vegetarian who wants to start feeding my ill 6 month old puppy r
Posted by: "Rhonda" rhonda18@gmail.com rhondabrabbin
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 5:19 pm ((PDT))

Daphne is not on a RAW diet; I've been thinking of it and the mahi-
mahi was my first attempt as I already had it in the freezer; I guess
I don't really know where/how to begin.
Do you gradually add raw meat along with her regular diet and then
just transition over?

Rhonda
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Laurie Swanson" <laurie@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi again Rhonda!
>
> Fish wouldn't be my first choice for a sick, newbie dog.
Especially
> mahi-mahi. It's not a wolf's/dog's most natural food and we've had
a
> couple bad fish experiences here. Although many dogs like it and
do
> well with certain types, I'd go back to whatever other raw meat she
was
> doing well on. Remind us what you've been doing and for how long
and
> let us know what you're trying to do currently (increase variety?
> solve a certain problem?) and we can help.
>
> Laurie
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Rhonda" <rhonda18@> wrote:
> last night gave her Mahi
> > Mahi fish very rare, could bring myself to give it to her raw, I
am
> > going to have to ease into this, but this morning she had
diarrhea!
>

Messages in this topic (16)
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2c. Re: vegetarian who wants to start feeding my ill 6 month old puppy r
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 7:32 pm ((PDT))

Rhonda,

Generally the easiest and best way is to just start--buy some
unenhanced (no injected broth or added flavors) chicken quarters or
whole chickens and feed them. There are other ways to go if you have
any issues, but chicken is cheap, available, whole prey w/bone and
meat, and is usually digested well. If you can more easily get
turkey or some other protein, you can start with that, but it's often
a good idea to start with one protein source. Once she is doing well
for a week or two, you can start gradually adding in variety.

Mixing raw w/kibble or canned could lead to digestive upset. So, get
some chicken and go for it!

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Rhonda" <rhonda18@...> wrote:
>
> Daphne is not on a RAW diet; I've been thinking of it and the mahi-
> mahi was my first attempt as I already had it in the freezer; I
guess
> I don't really know where/how to begin.
> Do you gradually add raw meat along with her regular diet and then
> just transition over?
>
> Rhonda

Messages in this topic (16)
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2d. Re: vegetarian who wants to start feeding my ill 6 month old puppy r
Posted by: "Rhonda" rhonda18@gmail.com rhondabrabbin
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:13 pm ((PDT))

Oh Sorry you said to remind you of what I have been feeding:I am just
going to copy and past from my other post so here it is?I feed her 3
to 4 times a day ¾ teaspoon of BioCase V, and a omega 3 capsule, a
probiotic timed released tablet, in clover enzymes for dogs
[Prebiotic: Fructooligosaccharides, Enzyme Blend: Acid Stable
Protease, Amylase, Lipase, Cellulase. No fillers, lactose, sugar,
preservatives or animal products]
mixed with plain organic yogurt, sometimes organic eggs, sometimes
broiled salmon, with the ingredients of the current dry dog food
which is Castor and Pollux and here are the copied and pasted
Ingredients: Organic Chicken, Chicken Meal, Organic Peas, Organic
Barley, Organic Brown Rice, Organic Oats, Chicken Fat preserved with
Mixed Tochopherols (form of Vitamin E), Salmon Meal, Organic Whole
Flaxseed, Natural Chicken Liver Flavor, Dicalcium Phosphate, Dried
Whole Egg, Potassium Chloride, Minerals (Zinc Proteinate, Iron
Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Sodium Selenite,
Cobalt Proteinate, Calcium Iodate), Choline Chloride, Organic
Carrots, Organic Apples, Vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, L-Ascorbyl-2-
Phosphate (source of Vitamin C), Vitamin B12 Supplement, d-Calcium
Pantothenate, Vitamin A Supplement, Niacin, Riboflavin, Folic Acid,
Biotin, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin D3
Supplement), Yeast Culture (Sacccharomyces Cerevisiae), Dried
Enterococcus Faecum Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus
Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus Niger
Fermentation Extract, Dried Trichoderma Longbrachiatum Fermentation
Extract, Dried Bacillus Subtilis Fermentation Extract and
Fermentation Solubles, Glucosamine Hydrochloride, Chondroitin Sulfate.
Guaranteed Analysis:
Crude Protein (min) 25.00%
Crude Fat (min) 13.00%
Crude Fiber (max) 4.50%
Moisture (max) 10.00%
Calcium (min) 1.00%
Phosphorus (min) 0.90%
Omega 6 Fatty Acid* (min) 2.00%
Omega 3 Fatty Acid* (min) 0.28%
Glucosamine* (min) 150 ppm
Chondroitin Sulfate* (min) 75 ppm
*Not recognized as an essential nutrient by the AAFCO Dog Food
Nutrient Profile.
AAFCO Statement: 100% Complete and Balanced ORGANIX® Canine Formula
is formulated to meet the nutritional levels established by the AAFCO
(Association of American Feed Control Officials) Dog Food Nutrient
Profiles for maintenance.

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Laurie Swanson" <laurie@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi again Rhonda!
>
> Fish wouldn't be my first choice for a sick, newbie dog.
Especially
> mahi-mahi. It's not a wolf's/dog's most natural food and we've had
a
> couple bad fish experiences here. Although many dogs like it and
do
> well with certain types, I'd go back to whatever other raw meat she
was
> doing well on. Remind us what you've been doing and for how long
and
> let us know what you're trying to do currently (increase variety?
> solve a certain problem?) and we can help.
>
> Laurie
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Rhonda" <rhonda18@> wrote:
> last night gave her Mahi
> > Mahi fish very rare, could bring myself to give it to her raw, I
am
> > going to have to ease into this, but this morning she had
diarrhea!
>

Messages in this topic (16)
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3a. Re: Too Much Bone?
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 4:12 pm ((PDT))

Hi Susan,

My dog can't handle too much boneless, either. Even if I throw in a
chicken foot to a boneless meal, it seems to keep things more solid.
I wonder if maybe because most dogs aren't getting whole prey with
fur and all that other stuff, that maybe more bone kind of
substitutes for that a bit sometimes? I would just watch for rock
hard stools and constipation, but if they need a little bone every
day and they are healthy and happy, it sounds fine.

Is it possible the parents fed them other things that could've caused
a problem, though, too (not that it's worth asking about or making
waves--just something to consider)? What about stress? My dog had
urgent, liquidy stools awhile ago after we had to leave him home
alone more for a couple days and we were moving lots of stuff around
the house/bringing in boxes because we were moving our art studio.

If you need to travel again and have easy peasy meals, you might look
for a source of ground meat w/bone (some butchers, upscale pet
stores, through local buying groups, or online). Those often have a
lot of bone, though, so you'd probably want to alternate w/boneless.

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "brake4breyers832"
<pebbles_diehl@...> wrote:
so only send the
> dogs with boneless meat. I was ok with that, but I figured they
would
> have loose stools. It is now Friday and they *still* have
diarrhea.

Messages in this topic (9)
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4a. Re: Kidney Failure
Posted by: "woofwoofgrrl" cmc4lists1@gastrounit.com woofwoofgrrl
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 4:13 pm ((PDT))

High protein doesn't damage the kidneys - even sick kidneys. However if
the kidneys are comprimised, they won't filter out the by-products of
protein digestion and the BUN values will rise. High BUN values will
make a dog feel ill. Foods that are high in protein are also generally
high in phosphorus. Sick kidneys also don't remove phosphourus
effectively. High phosphorus will start a vicious cycle with the
parathyroid gland leading to hyperparathyroidism.

Below is a great link dealing with kidney disease in dogs.
http://www.dogaware.com/kidney.html

also the k9kidneydiet yahoo group is very helpful. I highly recommend
joining.

Easily digestable proteins (raw meat and egg whites) are definitely on
the menu, however, depending on your dogs blood and urine values, you
may need to feed a partial raw diet and supplement calories from a lower
phosphorus source. You may also need to supplement with a phosphorus
binder. The k**ble that you were feeding before had all of that in it
already. Regardless, easily digestable raw protein in a homemade diet
will be better and you can control it more precisely than crap in a bag.
You just need to make sure you have all of your kidney dog's bases
covered.

Christine

Mary wrote:
>
>
> "Your vet needs to bring himself up to date...."protein is not the issue
> with damaged kidneys."
>
> High protein is very damaging to kidneys in failure. I was a dialysis
> tech in another life and high protein was the enemy of my patients. I
> live with an Internist who just verified it for me before I wrote this
> to the group.
>
> I am talking about unhealthy kidneys not normal kidneys. Below the post
> speaks to damaged kidneys and again high protein is very dangerous in
> this condition. Check out kidney disease on the web.
>
> Mary Smallwood

Messages in this topic (6)
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4b. Re: Kidney Failure
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 5:41 pm ((PDT))

> High protein is very damaging to kidneys in failure. I was a dialysis
> tech in another life and high protein was the enemy of my patients. I
> live with an Internist who just verified it for me before I wrote this to
> the group.

Mary,

Did you read any of Sandee's links?

Reducing protein for the carnivore in all but the final stages of renal
failure actually hastens the animal's decline. Protein isn't the enemy,
here. Not even for the renal compromised.

Casey

Messages in this topic (6)
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5a. Re: are dogs carnivoirs or omnivoirs
Posted by: "mandajenwalker" walker1031@chartermi.net mandajenwalker
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 4:31 pm ((PDT))

Thanks for the link, Sandee,
I really appreciate it. I read through it completely. I agree with
the raw food way of feeding or I for sure wouldn't be going to all
this trouble. I have to wait for Louie's blood test to come in to
find out if he does in fact have hypothyroidism. I want to see how he
will do on the raw diet in the meantime to see if it will help. I
believe in my mind that kibble isn't "natural" for dogs.....it is
processed! Just like a lot of the processed foods we see nowadays for
humans. None of those are good for us!
Anyways, thanks again. I really appreciate your input!
Mandy

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee Lee" <rlee@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Mandy,
>
> You need to read the rawfeeding myths where you will find not someone's
> beliefs but the facts! Your vet should know that classification is
based on
> anatomy and physiology which proves that dogs are carnivores. And
it is
> no secret what the appropriate diet for a carnivore consists
of...not fruits
> and veggies!! :)
>
> http://rawfed.com/myths/index.html
>
> Sandee & the Dane Gang
>
> From: "mandajenwalker" <walker1031@...>
>
>
> I went to the vet today with my dog, Louie's, skin problem (we think
> he has hypothyroidism). My vet told me that in fact dogs are
> omnivoirs and they do need fruits and vegetables to live. She told me
> to steer clear of the raw diet at all costs!
> I know everyone has there beliefs....I just don't want him to end up
> with health problems down the road. I also know that she is being fed
> information through her dog food distributors....
>

Messages in this topic (5)
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5b. Re: are dogs carnivoirs or omnivoirs
Posted by: "tottime47" tottime@aol.com tottime47
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 4:38 pm ((PDT))

Hi Mandy,

I would be scared to put my precious
dogs under the care of a vet who didn't know the basics
of dogs, that they are total carnivores........I would ask myself
if they don't know something that basic, what else don't they know?
Being as honest and fair as I can be.........

Carol, Charkee & Moli

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "mandajenwalker" <walker1031@...>
wrote:
My vet told me that in fact dogs are
omnivoirs and they do need fruits and vegetables to live.
She told me to steer clear of the raw diet at all costs!

Messages in this topic (5)
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5c. Re: are dogs carnivoirs or omnivoirs
Posted by: "mandajenwalker" walker1031@chartermi.net mandajenwalker
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 5:38 pm ((PDT))

I agree, Carol! And I appreciate your honesty! I have had my doubts
about her in the past and have often thought of changing....
As far as the diet, I want to first observe the way my dogs react to
the raw diet and use my own judgment from there. I am a skeptic until
I see results for myself.
Thank You again,
Mandy

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "tottime47" <tottime@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Mandy,
>
> I would be scared to put my precious
> dogs under the care of a vet who didn't know the basics
> of dogs, that they are total carnivores........I would ask myself
> if they don't know something that basic, what else don't they know?
> Being as honest and fair as I can be.........
>
> Carol, Charkee & Moli
>
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "mandajenwalker" <walker1031@>
> wrote:
> My vet told me that in fact dogs are
> omnivoirs and they do need fruits and vegetables to live.
> She told me to steer clear of the raw diet at all costs!
>

Messages in this topic (5)
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6. Re: dog with panreatitis
Posted by: "Michael Moore" m-tak@sbcglobal.net annemoore2000
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 4:38 pm ((PDT))

>>Someone on the list referred me to your post as my 6 month old
Greyhound puppy, Daphne, has EPI and type 1, insulin dependant,
diabetes. I want to transition over to a RAW diet, but am not sure
how to go about it I have been investigating the raw diet for about 4
days now. I am worried as I just got her to a point where she has
really good poops. Last night I gave her some semi raw [I broiled it
for 5 min] Mahi Mahi fish and she had diarrhea this morning so now I
am afraid to give her anything else raw. I did go to Petco today and
bought http://www.naturalb alanceinc. com/dogformulas/ RAW.html which is
raw but I know not the true RAW diet but it is a start.<<

Hi, Rhonda, I'm not Karen, but my GSD, Holly, was diagnosed with EPI some years ago. She is a rescue, and had screaming, uncontrollable diarrhea for a full year (daily!) after we got her. She's the dog who lead me to rawfeeding. First, raw is, IMO, the way to go for an EPI dog. Holly gets no digestive enzymes, nothing except a little extra pancreas, and she is thriving!!
You may have created the diarrhea (is it truly diarrhea -- uncontrollable -- or just really loose stools?) with the MahiMahi -- and searing fish for 5 mins. is not semi-raw. Save your money -- quit buying that stuff at Petco; your doggy food dollars will go much further and your dog will probably do much better on a true raw diet. It's not hard -- buy some whole chicken -- whack them in half, feed half to your puppy. Repeat the next day.
It took about 4 days or so for Holly's stool to become "better," but your results may vary. You need to be a little patient, read some posts on starting on raw, and give it an educated effort for a minimum of six weeks. This *is* the best, most natural diet for all dogs. Period.
I admit to no knowledge of diabetes in dogs, but I'm sure there are knowledgeable folks on the list who can give you specific advice about that as well.

-- Anne Moore (M-Tak PWC and one goofy GSD rescue and a silly Golden rescue) in NW Ohio

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (1)
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7a. Re: Okay rawfeeders, riddle me this...
Posted by: "cypressbunny" cypressbunny@yahoo.com cypressbunny
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 4:42 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "steph.sorensen"
<steph.sorensen@...> wrote:
>
> from a
> biological standpoint, which is what you guys are supporting with
> your canine and feline diets, dogs would bring down a large animal
as
> a pack, and it may take them a week to get through the whole
thing.

*** It wouldn't take a week. A few days at most, usually less.
Wolves eat as much as they can, rest, and then eat some more if
there is more. How much of the carcass gets left behind for other
scavengers depends on a variety of factors such as pack size and
snow depth.

> However, a) there isn't a freezer to stick it back into, and b) if
> you already thawed out the meat once to give it to them, wouldn't
it
> be unwise to refreeze and thaw repeatedly? It makes meat go bad.

*** It would be unwise to do this repeatedly, yes. Two or three
times, though, no. Repeated freezing doesn't make meat go bad--what
happens while thawed is what makes it go bad.

> It is a tradeoff between what is best and what works out the
best.
> Or is all of this only a matter of personal preference?

*** Yes to all of the above. I think there are few people who leave
giant chunks of carcass out for days at a time. If I left meat out,
I would be overrun with rats in a short time. Most folks cut into
portions and refridgerate the remainder if the dog doesn't finish
it. If, say, I had a goat quarter (which I do), I would let the dog
work on it until satisfied, and then put the rest in the fridge for
the next meal. It might get fed, refridgerated, fed again,
refridgerated again, and then fed one more time. Even so, the amount
of time the item spends at room temp is well below the danger point
even for humans, nevermind dogs, who are usually delighted to eat
week-old road kill.

--Carrie

Messages in this topic (3)
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7b. Re: Okay rawfeeders, riddle me this...
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 5:24 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 8/24/2007 2:54:52 PM Pacific Standard Time,
steph.sorensen@yahoo.com writes:

However, a) there isn't a freezer to stick it back into, and b) if
you already thawed out the meat once to give it to them, wouldn't it
be unwise to refreeze and thaw repeatedly? It makes meat go bad.

Steph,

Wolves hunt in packs and when they bring down a large prey animal they gorge
themselves until they can't eat anymore.. then they guard the kill and sleep
and eat more..

they do this until the kill is gone, or stolen from them by a stronger
predator. Doesn't matter if the meat starts smelling bad, that is a human thing,
dogs LOVE stinky meat. Sometimes i think they like it stinky better than they
like the fresh stuff.

And freezing/thawing and refreezing meat doesn't make it go bad, it changes
the taste and texture of the meat and dries it out so humans don't wanna eat it
anymore.. the dogs don't care.

how you deal with huge hunks o meat or large body parts is personal
preference. I choose to whack meal sized hunks of meat off of whole legs until all
that is left is the meat on the bone and then i hand the bone with the meat on it
to one of the dogs that has the luxury of time and space to deal with it.
Like my Otis in his 18' x 6' kennel. Or one of the dogs that eats in their
crates..

the dogs that eat in the open, or in rooms that folks move around in don't
often get to work on huge hunks of meat with a bone in it, but they are well
compensated. They get the choicer pieces of meat, and get hunky but easier to
chew food so we don't have to bring the whole house to a stand still to wait for
a collie to finish an emu leg.

Catherine R.

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Messages in this topic (3)
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8a. Re: 'Hot' vs 'Cooling' foods?
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 4:44 pm ((PDT))

> Have any of you heard of certain types of raw meats being classified as
> 'hot' and others as 'cooling'. My agility instructor mentioned this and
> I'm curious to hear of any of you have. She said chicken and beef, for
> instance, are considered hot meats, whereas salmon would be a cooling
> food.

Pam,

This comes from Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM) and may be of value to
humans, but I and the others I know of who have tried it for our dogs have
not been able to see a benefit from hot/cold food choices for our animals.

Better, imo, to gauge your dog as an individual and see which foods work
best for him as an individual...

Casey

Messages in this topic (2)
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9a. Re: Diabetes and Raw Feeding
Posted by: "emmiemileslouie" lklora@sbcglobal.net emmiemileslouie
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 5:05 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "doguenanny" <Dixie4911@...> wrote:
>
> A friend of mine's lab was recently diagnosed with diabetes (she said
> it's the insulin dependent type). I have always talked to her about
> feeding raw, but she never thought about switching. Until now. I
told
> her it would be the best thing she could do for her dog, especially
> now. I told her I'd try to find some information to send her, but I
> haven't found anything yet that talks about how a raw diet can be
> beneficial to dogs with diabetes. She's the type of person who will
> want to see specifics (or something close to specifics)......can
anyone
> out there point me in the right direction, or does anyone out there
> have a dog with diabetes on raw?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Frankie

> Hi Frankie,
I started feeding raw because of a diabetic cat. I could never get
his insulin levels or blood sugar levels regulated while
on "prescription diabetic canned and kibble from the vet. Found a
website called yourdiabeticcat.com that convinced me to make the
switch. My cat has never been better since the change and now I have
all of my other pets on raw. It only makes sense to me considering how
carbohydrates directly effect glucose levels, yet even the prescription
diabetic foods have as much as a 45% carb content in them...duh!! My
thought is get rid of all the unecessary corn, wheat, oats, veggies,
fillers, etc. that dogs do not need and you may be surprised at the
improvement of the animals condition regarding the diabetes. I can go
into more detail with my specific case off group if you or friend would
like. Just e-mail me.

Linda

Messages in this topic (4)
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9b. Re: Diabetes and Raw Feeding
Posted by: "emmiemileslouie" lklora@sbcglobal.net emmiemileslouie
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:14 pm ((PDT))

***MODERATOR'S NOTE: PLEASE TRIM YOUR MESSAGES.***

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "doguenanny" <Dixie4911@...> wrote:
>
> A friend of mine's lab was recently diagnosed with diabetes (she
said
> it's the insulin dependent type). I have always talked to her
about
> feeding raw, but she never thought about switching. Until now. I
told
> her it would be the best thing she could do for her dog, especially
> now. I told her I'd try to find some information to send her, but
I
> haven't found anything yet that talks about how a raw diet can be
> beneficial to dogs with diabetes. She's the type of person who
will
> want to see specifics (or something close to specifics)......can
anyone
> out there point me in the right direction, or does anyone out there
> have a dog with diabetes on raw?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Frankie

Once again Frankie,

I found that one of the yahoo groups has a raw diabetic dog group. I
am not a member but it may be worth your friends time to check it
out.
Hope this helps.

Linda

Messages in this topic (4)
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10a. Hi, just a quick question
Posted by: "chrisstfo@aol.com" chrisstfo@aol.com chrisstfo
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 5:39 pm ((PDT))

Hi, how are you? I just started the raw diet. Last night I fed my dog
ground beef with vegetables. I know you guys do not like the vegetables but the
site I have been reading said it was good. My question is did I do something
bad by giving her ground beef. I asked for the best they had. They where a
high end grocery store..... How do I know if the animal parts I get are hormone
free?... Is there anywhere online to order this stuff.... Thank You, Chris

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Messages in this topic (5)
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10b. Re: Hi, just a quick question
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:01 pm ((PDT))

Hi Chris,

Actually I really like vegetables...a lot!! :))

Seriously, it doesn't matter who says they are good, they are not part of a
carnivore's diet. As treats they might be ok, but since dogs do not have
the system to digest and receive nutrition from plant matter, they shouldn't
take up any appreciable amount in the diet.

Ground beef is fine occasionally, but best to stick with whole foods or nice
large portions. Just beginning, I think you need to focus on something
less fatty, not ground and include bone.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: <chrisstfo@aol.com>

> Hi, how are you? I just started the raw diet. Last night I fed my dog
> ground beef with vegetables. I know you guys do not like the vegetables
but the
> site I have been reading said it was good. My question is did I do
something
> bad by giving her ground beef.

Messages in this topic (5)
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10c. Re: Hi, just a quick question
Posted by: "chrisstfo@aol.com" chrisstfo@aol.com chrisstfo
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 7:06 pm ((PDT))

Thank You for the fast reply, So I can just go to the store and pick out the
biggest steak for now with the bone and feed that. I need to get something
else for tonight because all I have is the ground beef with veggies. Thanks,
Chris

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Messages in this topic (5)
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10d. Re: Hi, just a quick question
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 7:12 pm ((PDT))

No, not quite! :) Most beef bones aren't going to be edible. You need
something like a chicken!

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: <chrisstfo@aol.com>

> Thank You for the fast reply, So I can just go to the store and pick out
the
> biggest steak for now with the bone and feed that. I need to get
something
> else for tonight because all I have is the ground beef with veggies.
Thanks,

Messages in this topic (5)
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10e. Re: Hi, just a quick question
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 7:33 pm ((PDT))

If you don't want to go to the store tonight, your dog will be fine
with more ground beef tonight. But you will want to get something
w/bone soon (not beef--the bones are too dense and can wreck teeth,
and t-bones, etc. can be choking hazards). Chickens are cheap, easy,
and available (whole or quarters are good), but if you want you can
use turkey parts, pork, lamb, etc. You might want to stick with one
protein source for a week or so til you know things are good.

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, chrisstfo@... wrote:
>
> Thank You for the fast reply, So I can just go to the store and
pick out the
> biggest steak for now with the bone and feed that. I need to get
something
> else for tonight because all I have is the ground beef with
veggies. Thanks,
> Chris
>
>
>
> ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-
new AOL at
> http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Messages in this topic (5)
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