[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11952

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: anyone in the Michigan area
From: JOHN PFAFF

2a. Not good teeth
From: macattack0201
2b. Re: Not good teeth
From: carnesbill
2c. Re: Not good teeth
From: pelle567

3a. Re: OT: Vaccinations
From: lizwehrli

4a. Re: to Catherine on feeding toothless pit bull
From: Andrea

5a. Re: Fantastic Score!!!
From: Casey Post
5b. Re: Fantastic Score!!!
From: Andrea

6a. Re: vegetarian who wants to start feeding my ill 6 month old puppy r
From: cocoandspot

7a. Re: Pork ribs and choking
From: Andrea
7b. Re: Pork ribs and choking
From: Yasuko herron
7c. Re: Pork ribs and choking
From: Olga

8a. Re: Mucousy poop;Is this from too much treats??
From: Andrea
8b. Re: Mucousy poop;Is this from too much treats??
From: Yasuko herron

9a. Re: 10 month old dane
From: karimlizette

10a. Re: Hello! New here...
From: mikkeny

11a. Too Much Bone?
From: brake4breyers832
11b. Re: Too Much Bone?
From: Andrea
11c. Re: Too Much Bone?
From: carnesbill

12a. Re: starting the raw diet
From: mandajenwalker

13a. ADMIN/Re: OT: Vaccinations
From: costrowski75

14a. New puppy and new to raw, I need a little info, please
From: janreedharrod
14b. Re: New puppy and new to raw, I need a little info, please
From: John and Jeni Blackmon
14c. Re: New puppy and new to raw, I need a little info, please
From: Andrea

15a. Re: maybe slight constipation
From: Yasuko herron

Messages
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1a. Re: anyone in the Michigan area
Posted by: "JOHN PFAFF" johnpfaff@comcast.net rawfeednewbie
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:31 am ((PDT))

Mandy,
Try the farmer's market in Detroit - also several large butcher operations in the same area - one caters to poultry - one to pork, etc.
JOHN PFAFF
----- Original Message -----
From: mandajenwalker
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 9:28 PM
Subject: [rawfeeding] anyone in the Michigan area

I am wondering if anyone on this group lives in Michigan near the
Flint or Novi area that can tell me of a good, cheap place to get
meat?????? I have a fairly cheap butcher but I am wondering of there
is any better places around here!
Thanks
mandy

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Messages in this topic (2)
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2a. Not good teeth
Posted by: "macattack0201" bmcneil@fdainfo.com macattack0201
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:32 am ((PDT))

Hello all---

My 6yo Boston Terrier--when we "found each other" she had no front
teeth at all; she has canines and back molars but they are covered in
plaque, dirty and the molars look a little worn.
I am just starting her on raw (she had her first raw turkey last night
and loved it!) and while I got her a wonder pack of chicken wings last
night--it was suggested that maybe it wouldn't be a good idea to give
her any wings (or other small bones to eat) because it might ruin
and/or break the rest of her teeth off. She's been eating kibble and
chewing rawhide and that hasn't broken any teeth or made them look
worse than they were.
Please tell me what you think. She was used for breeding and terribly
overbred and I'm afraid that her calcium levels aren't very good.
TIA!
Bridget

Messages in this topic (3)
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2b. Re: Not good teeth
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:29 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "macattack0201" <bmcneil@...> wrote:
>
> while I got her a wonder pack of chicken wings last
> night--it was suggested that maybe it wouldn't be a good idea
> to give
> her any wings (or other small bones to eat) because it might ruin
> and/or break the rest of her teeth off.

If it were my dog, I wouldn't worry about him. Dogs don't use their
front teeth to eat anyway. The bones will clean off the plaque in no
time. Keep an eye on her amd make sure she doesn't try to swallow
them whole. You may need to go to larger animal parts than chicken
wings or they may be just the right size for her.

> Please tell me what you think. She was used for breeding
> and terribly
> overbred and I'm afraid that her calcium levels aren't very good.

If they aren't good, eating raw meaty bones should bring the calcium
levels up pretty quickly unless there is a health problem that keeps
her from absorbing calcium.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (3)
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2c. Re: Not good teeth
Posted by: "pelle567" krjoyner@firstam.com pelle567
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 9:51 am ((PDT))

I wouldn't worry about it either. I have a 12 year old beagle/golden
that I adopted last year and his teeth were atrocious! They had this
dog his entire life and he'd never had anything to chew (toys or
bones) he was being fed Iams Weight Control. After a year of being on
raw his teeth are a pearly white, he's lost 5lbs, his belly has
tightened up and most of his lipomas are gone. I wouldn't worry
about her she'll become a beauty queen!

Katie

Messages in this topic (3)
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3a. Re: OT: Vaccinations
Posted by: "lizwehrli" lizwehrli@yahoo.com lizwehrli
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:46 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "ptmagi" <ptmagi@...> wrote:
>

>
> Which brings me to my question: What vaccines are we allowed to
> refuse for our pets, and what limitations/restrictions can be forced
> on our pets for us doing so? Atticus is due for his final round of
> vaccines a week from tomorrow.
>
> Thanks,
> Deb in CO

Hi Deb,

You could join the yahoo group truthaboutvaccines, there is a wealth
of information there.

www.truthaboutvaccine.org is a good site.

To my knowledge, the only vaccine that is required by law is the
rabies shot. It's a piece of paper. Boarding facilities and such may
have their own regulations. My holistic vet doesn't believe in any
shots beyond the initial puppy shots and the rabies vaccine because
it's the law. He also supports raw feeding.

Liz in AZ
>

Messages in this topic (3)
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4a. Re: to Catherine on feeding toothless pit bull
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:47 am ((PDT))

The key to slowing down the gulpers is to feed them big food. I
haven't personally fed a dog with no teeth, but I know a lot of
people on the list have had experience with no teeth, three teeth,
etc. Invariably, everyone is really surprised how well the animals
get along without the teeth. You'll see when the other dogs eat that
they don't chew their food into a pulp, they just crunch it into
pieces that can get down their throat. I'd imagine that a dog with
no teeth would have more difficulty getting meat off of a big bone
than crushing a bone with his jaws. Give him a chicken quarter to
start off with and see how he does. Chicken bones are extremely soft
and he should be able to crush them easily.

For the other dogs you should start with a quarter chicken and see
how they do with that. Feeding too much food causes loose stools
which are *really* unpleasant to clean up. Best to start with the
smaller amount and add food if the pups start losing weight.

Cats can be a pain to switch over, so let's hope your kitty jumps
right in. It's easiest to cut some meat up into small cubes and mix
it with the regular food. If kitty decides to be difficult, let us
know. There's a sister list dedicated to specific cat problems and
it is extremely helpful when switching a stubborn cat.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "steph.sorensen"
<steph.sorensen@...> wrote:

> Wouldn't I have to worry about him choking on the bones if they
> weren't ground for him? Since he was starving when I got him (he
> weighed only 20 lbs and now weighs about 50, just to give you an
> idea), he tends to "wolf" (pardon the pun) his food down. I would
> be afraid he would not try hard enough to chew the bones. Or that
> he wouldn't be able to. He has strong jaws, just no teeth to crush.
>
> An additional question. The other two dogs weigh 55 and 65 lbs, and
> the cat weighs a little over 9 lbs. Should I feed the dogs a
> quarter chicken per meal or a half chicken?

Messages in this topic (6)
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5a. Re: Fantastic Score!!!
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 7:18 am ((PDT))

> My housemate who is a chef is catering for a big wedding tomorrow at
> which the guests are eating "squab" (some sort of bird, bigger than a
> quail smaller than a game hen apparently)

Pigeon! Young pigeons, anyway...

> and he is giving it all to me (well to the cat and dog really) thats
> 120 tiny little bird heads!!! plus guts and feet all free.

Hooray! Nice one!

>
> so how many little heads are too many per day? the feet and guts I'll
> package up for feetsicles and organ additions to bigger meals but I'd
> like to feed through the heads as quick as possible.

I'm having trouble picturing a pile of 120 squab heads...you'll have to use
your judgement on that and see. I imagine that you could feed a bunch of
them alongside a hunk of boneless meat (since heads are pretty bony) and be
cool. Assuming of course that your dog likes squab...

The cat may be quite keen on them, but again, I'd feed alongside some
boneless.

Casey

Messages in this topic (3)
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5b. Re: Fantastic Score!!!
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 7:34 am ((PDT))

<snort> heady goodness.

I'm sorry, I'm having a giggle fit just imagining Blaze happily
running around a back yard with a pile of birdie heads in the
middle. I'd give a good pile to him, though I'm having a hard time
trying to guesstimate how big the initial pile of 120 birdie heads
will be. On seccond thought, Blaze has been raw fed for a while now,
right? I'd probably put all 120 in front of him and see what happens
(with a camera close at hand, of course).

Oh, but do try with the cat. My cats thought I was insane when I
tried to feed them whole mice, but that doesn't stop them from
catching their own birds and leaving the remnants on my doorstep.
Maybe birdie is a cat delicacy?

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "irwin_bird" <iamentropygirl@...>
wrote:

> The pup is big enough to easily handle say a whole lambs head so I
> figure he could eat a lot of bird heads to equal all the "heady
> goodness" in a lamb but I wanted to check that there wasn't a rule
> about heads for some reason...
>
> Blaze pretty much has a cast iron stomach so I'm not worried about
> err poo issues and the cat probably won't consent to even eat one.

Messages in this topic (3)
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6a. Re: vegetarian who wants to start feeding my ill 6 month old puppy r
Posted by: "cocoandspot" cocoandspot@yahoo.com cocoandspot
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 7:34 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Rhonda" <rhonda18@...> wrote:
>
> I am a vegetarian who wants to start feeding my 6 month old puppy.....

>
> Rhonda
>

Hi I am new here, but this jumped out at me because I am a vegan. I
haven't handled meat in over 15 years, so going raw for my dogs was
something of a challenge. I'm still in the first few weeks, but it
keeps getting easier. As disgusted as I am by meat, it's just really
awesome to watch your dog chow down on a chicken! It looks so healthy
and natural and they love it! I've been trying to buy organic,
free-range, or sustainably produced meat (it costs more, but I'm
willing to pay), and recently located a few farms in the area that I'm
going to check out. I feed out in the backyard to keep the mess out
of the house. I think you'll find that the more you handle the meat,
the less squeamish you'll be about it.

Sara

Messages in this topic (7)
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7a. Re: Pork ribs and choking
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 7:34 am ((PDT))

> once they've chowed down to the last of a bunch of multiple ribs,
> they've got a singleton anyway, right? See why I'm confused?

Theoretically, yes, but the difference is the energy and gusto with
which the dog tackles the food. My newf mix puppy gets extremely
excited every time he gets fed, he sits on his bed and can't wait for
me to tell him to go ahead and eat. I say "ok" and he tears into his
food, literally. Pieces of meat and gristle go flying (maybe not
exactly flying, but you get the pic), he chomps heartily on the
bones, and he shakes the food around in an effort to kill it some
more. Five or ten minutes later, he's still eating but much more
quietly, more politely. By the time he gets to the end of his meal,
he's pretty tuckered out and no longer has the excitement required to
try and suck down a whole rib bone. Giving the ribs together allows
the dog to expend the energy to take them apart so they are less
likely to try and swallow the whole bone.

Also, watching dogs eat ribs is a lot like watching people eat corn
on the cob. My bf takes random bites out of the ear while I eat it
row by row. Similarly, Tycho (the newf) eats pork ribs "sideways"
eating the ribs and meat from the top of the bone down, while Gieger
eats the meat that he can get from the slab first and then eats the
ribs one at a time.

> Which brings up another question: I understand also about not
> leaving a dog at home alone with any bones. But I also wonder if
> being there is enough... If I would actually be able to jump in and
> get a meaty piece of bone that he was choking on out of his
> throat. Honestly, the idea scares the bejeezus outta me.

There are some pet first aid books out there that you can get so that
you'll have an idea of what to do in case of emergency. A lot of the
time you can dislodge the offending piece of food just by picking the
dog up by its hind legs. There's a doggie heimlich you can do as
well. I've never had either of my boys actually choke, but I try to
be prepared for it. I also err on the side of caution any time I
have some food item that seems questionable (chicken wing, pork chop,
etc).

I know, way more rambling than you were bargaining for, but hey, it's
Friday morning and I haven't finished my coffee yet.

Andrea

Messages in this topic (8)
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7b. Re: Pork ribs and choking
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 7:58 am ((PDT))

> My understanding is that this is because single ribs are too small and there's increased >danger of ingesting bone shards.

Hi,Deb. First of all,pork rib bone is as soft as chicken bone as far as I can imagine watching my dog ate like chicken. I don't think it going to make shard because it is not hard bone like Shank bone.Don't worry.

The reason people feed several rib bone attatched still and feed is to increase the ripping activity increase fun increase mental activity as well.More work out if you will.If several bone attached, yes,the rib slab is bigger than one swallow meal size so,it prevents from being swallowed whole or anything like that.

> But I also wonder if being there is enough... If I would actually be able to jump in and get a >meaty piece of bone that he was choking on out of his throat.

Well,if you were not supervising, you cannot help in any ways and maybe too late to help.

If you were with dog,you can try get thing out from throat or call emergency vet or something.You still can act to help.

if the dog got prob bone stuck in between teeth,then you still can help if you were around.

If you were with dog,you know what bone made teeth broke,and know that next time,you don't feed the bone that made crack in the dog teeth etc.

I think that supervising help a lot.

yassy

---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (8)
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7c. Re: Pork ribs and choking
Posted by: "Olga" olga.drozd@gmail.com olga_d
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 9:51 am ((PDT))

> My understanding is that this is because single ribs are too small
> and there's increased danger of ingesting bone shards. But once
> they've chowed down to the last of a bunch of multiple ribs, they've
> got a singleton anyway, right?

I know someone (on another list) whose dog swallowed a whole beef rib
- definitely not what you want. Really, that's my main concern with
single ribs, not really bone shards (pork ribs seem pretty soft when I
watch my dogs chew them). Giving a bunch of ribs all in a slab makes
the dog pause and think about how to tackle it, rather than just grab
and swallow. By the time they've gotten to the last rib, they may be
chewing slower anyway. But I've noticed my dogs don't eat 1 rib, then
the next, when I give them a slab. Instead, they seem to chew across
the ribs, horizontally.

> I understand also about not leaving
> a dog at home alone with any bones. But I also wonder if being
> there
> is enough... If I would actually be able to jump in and get a meaty
> piece of bone that he was choking on out of his throat.

One of my dogs sometimes tries to swallow things that are too big,
mostly he did this when we were starting raw. In a dog/wolf's world,
if you can make it fit down the hatch, that's good enough, those
strong stomach juices will dissolve it all to bits. When Mayhem did
this it was usually a partly chewed up piece of something - he would
try to swallow, then stand there for a few seconds contemplating if
it's gonna go down or not, and then as you say hoark it back up. Then
he'd look around, chew it a bit more, and swallow this time. What a goof!

You can look up the instructions for the doggie heimlich maneuver
online. You may feel better having a print out of it for reference.

Olga

Messages in this topic (8)
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8a. Re: Mucousy poop;Is this from too much treats??
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 7:35 am ((PDT))

Yassy, you might want to fast her today to give her system a rest, then
go back to a meat she's comfortable with and see if everything goes
back to normal. If it does then you can try adding small bits of duck
back into her meals and watch for problems. Hope Palette is feeling
better this morning.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Yasuko herron
<sunshine_annamaria@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,everyone.. Palettewoke me up ..it is 2am with whining from crate
bed..
>
> I just took palette out forpotty and immediately she did poo..
>
> Now I suspect Duck.

Messages in this topic (11)
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8b. Re: Mucousy poop;Is this from too much treats??
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:02 am ((PDT))

>Yassy, you might want to fast her today to give her system a rest,

Hi,Andrea.Thank you for your thoughts. She is resting and sleeping.I think she could not sleep very well last night.I am bit sleepy still too.

Yea,that was what i was going to do.

My husband still think it was from treats. I am not sure at this point.'cause 2 new things got in her system (duck, and neighbor's treats) so,having hard time to detect what was bad.
Do you think sausage doggy treats effect her system this much?

After this,when I back to Duck again,I try less amount with chicken or something she does well on but if that didn't help,I will go back to familiar protin and do the second round to visiting protins she has been introduced in past 3 month plus and,come back Duck later again because it is just make it hard to detect if the small amount feeding didn't do any good.

I like to see if Duck really causing this under the situation Duck is the only thing to suspect if something went bad.

But,clear water juice from butt yesterday afternoon to brown colored liquid poo this early morning..is she improving? Getting worse?

she seems liking Duck so much so, I like to keep feeding it though..

So far,lamb and Duck seems something I need to keep an eye on ..

She maybe cannot torelate very well on fatty meat,I started guessing now..

I have never been seeing her this bad even with lamb so,I am bit thinking my sterategy now for later..

Anybody who fed Duck had similar prob when introducing it to dog???

yassy

---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (11)
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9a. Re: 10 month old dane
Posted by: "karimlizette" karimlizette@gmail.com karimlizette
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 7:35 am ((PDT))

Thanks Felicia & Sandee!
Bronco had a quarter chicken last night after not eating in the
morning. It is not 2-3% of his weight wich would have benn 1/2 a
chicken but he's getting the hang of it!

Thanks for everyone's help!
Karim

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10a. Re: Hello! New here...
Posted by: "mikkeny" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 7:41 am ((PDT))

> That said, does anyone have any recommendations for how to get them
> all started on this diet? The toothless pit bull is moving to Ohio
> in two days, but I can give his new mom any information about his
> possibilities (like grinding all of the food before feeding, since he
> can't really chew it).

Steph,

I haven't fed a toothless dog, but I have fed a toothless cat and I
can tell you what worked for us.

I did have to cut the cat's meat up into little chunks for him, since
he had no ability to shear the meat at all himself and he got ground
meat/bone a few times a week for calcium/bone content in his life -
BUT, the key to his happiness and oral good health (and until the day
he died, vets were impressed with this cat's oral good health - jaws
like a snapping turtle and gums that were clean, firm, and pink!) was
whole foods.

Now, I had to make sure that he wasn't going to try and gulp something
down that he shouldn't, so what I did was feed him HUGE meats on the
bone where I would score the meat up a bit to give him something to
pull and suck at and the bone was good for leverage for him to work
with. I had to be careful about poultry skin because if it weren't
cut up, he would try and suck it down in one go and gag himself.

But things like ostrich wings and monster turkey legs and other
similar big bone-in foods (the bone was not edible at all for him, but
rather just something for leverage) were his joy and pleasure. You'd
have to find something big enough for the PB where swallowing whole
isn't a hazard, but once you do, whole foods will not only provide him
with entertainment, but also strengthen those jaws, firm up those
gums, and help keep that mouth in the best shape it can be! I'm
thinking whole beef shanks, lamb heads, that sort of thing. Big
enough to work on without the dog being able to swallow it down, yes?

My toothless cat (affectionately known as Fred the Wondercat) did very
well with his "modified for the dentally challenged" program and
developed the strongest neck/shoulders you've ever seen from plowing
through large, whole foods (it was a full body workout for him). And,
as I said, jaw strength like a snapping turtle! Which is why even
when he was so ill with lymphoma at the end, every vet who opened his
mouth said, "Wow." They were used to toothless cats whose mouths had
turned to mush from eating only squishy foods. Well, not this one!
Just because he didn't have teeth didn't mean that his oral health
should be completely neglected, eh?

Best of luck to you. Oh - and you may want to look up "RAWFCO" on
yahoogroups - it's our Ohio rawfeeding co-op! We may be able to help
out the PB's forever owner with the raw buying thing!

Casey

Messages in this topic (6)
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11a. Too Much Bone?
Posted by: "brake4breyers832" pebbles_diehl@hotmail.com brake4breyers832
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 7:52 am ((PDT))

Hi everyone, I have another question about this diet. I have been
feeding chicken to my two Chi's for about two weeks. The first few
days, they had diarrhea then it cleared up fine. Last weekend, we
went out of town and the BF's parents watched the pups. My BF is not
at all interested in this diet or the benefits, and he said to not
cause any conflict or confusion with his parent's, so only send the
dogs with boneless meat. I was ok with that, but I figured they would
have loose stools. It is now Friday and they *still* have diarrhea.
He is pissed about it and I told him it was b/c they had two days of
no bone. It seems that if I feed them bone everyday, their stools are
firm and regular. Could this be too much or are their bodies just
needing that much?
Thanks so much!
Susan, Chloe and Pip

Messages in this topic (6)
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11b. Re: Too Much Bone?
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:05 am ((PDT))

It's hard to tell until the dogs are well adjusted to the diet. Some
dogs need much more than the regular amount of bone to keep firm
stools, and some get chalky white crumbly stools with eating "regular"
amounts of bone. For the time being, you might want to fast them for
half a day or so and then give them a boney meal to get things back to
normal. Hope Chloe and Pip feel better soon!

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "brake4breyers832"
<pebbles_diehl@...> wrote:

> he said to not cause any conflict or confusion with his parent's,
> so only send the dogs with boneless meat. I was ok with that, but
> I figured they would have loose stools. It is now Friday and they
> *still* have diarrhea.

Messages in this topic (6)
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11c. Re: Too Much Bone?
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 9:52 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Tamara S. Koehn" <tskoehn@...>
wrote:

Dang! I just answered a 16 month old post.!! Oh well. :) :) :)

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (6)
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12a. Re: starting the raw diet
Posted by: "mandajenwalker" walker1031@chartermi.net mandajenwalker
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 7:52 am ((PDT))

Thanks again, Sandee
I really appreciate all the input. well Hank is, at this moment, in
the mud room "protecting" his chicken thigh! Not so much eating it
but just laying with it. I thought if I left him alone for a while
with it he may just eat it...well see! I ended up putting some left
over canned food gravy on it....that is his favorite thing in the
world and I have to use it up anyways. It worked well, he atleast put
it in his mouth. He is a REALLY finnicky (sp?) eater so I hope this
works! PS Louie (pug) ate his today! Yippee!
thanks again
Mandy

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee Lee" <rlee@...> wrote:
>
> Ooops...forgot to respond to the rest of your message!
>
> You can feed any meat available to you....beef, pork, lamb, emu,
venison,
> goat, fish...whatever you can get your hands on. Bone should only
be around
> 10% of the overall diet so concentrate on lots of meat, 10% organs, half
> being liver. It really isn't difficult once you get going...promise!!!
>
> Sandee & the Dane Gang
>
> From: "mandajenwalker" <walker1031@...>
> Now as far as adding other meats....what do you mean? What are some
> of the best kinds to feed and what is the ratio? How much "bone" meat
> vs other protein sources and organs? What type of organs do you feed?
>

Messages in this topic (6)
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13a. ADMIN/Re: OT: Vaccinations
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:07 am ((PDT))

Putting OT in the subject line does not make the topic appropriate. It
is an excellent topic and a difficult topic and it deserves
discussion. But not on the Rawfeeding list.

Please take all vaccine discussions to RawChat or TruthAboutVaccines or
Justsayno2vaccs or elsewhere or private. Further postings will be
rerouted. Thanks.
Chris O
Mod Team

Messages in this topic (3)
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14a. New puppy and new to raw, I need a little info, please
Posted by: "janreedharrod" janreedharrod@gmail.com janreedharrod
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:27 am ((PDT))

***MODERATOR'S NOTE: PLEASE SIGN YOUR MESSAGES.***

We rescued a nine month old chihuahua/poodle 2 months ago and out of
necessity started feeding raw, sort of. When we picked her up, we
were given a bag of kibble that she had been eating in foster care.
However, she did not eat ANYTHING for the next 2 days. At a whopping 5
lbs, I was concerned, so after playing the waiting game with her, I
offered boiled rice, chicken meat, green peas & carrots and she gobbled
it down. Since then I discovered the glories of RAW feeding and she has
thrived on it. She has had chicken necks & wings (her favorite), beef
ribs and pork ribs. She does not eat the beef or pork bones only the
meat off them. To make sure she gets enough meat, I buy large pieces
of meat at the butcher shop, cut it up, grind it, make serving size (1
1/2 to 2 oz) patties and freeze them. I also make veggie patties
(carrots, green beans, peas, sweet potato, a bit of crushed flax seed
and 1/2 clove of fresh garlic) and freeze them. I feed veggie in the
am and meat patty with either beef or pork meaty rib bone, in the pm.
Twice a week I mix raw egg with crushed shell, yogurt and some grated
cheese into the veggie mix. Now I'm reading that veggies aren't
necessary at all but egg with shell and yogurt are good for diet. Should
I cut out the veggie patty, and mix egg with crushed shell along with
yogurt and cheese into some of the meat patties and freeze them, or is
that even necessary in her diet? As a newbie, I need some reassurance
that I'm going in the right direction for her health and safety. Luna
is my first dog also, so I'm really winging it. Our vet is in favor of a
raw diet, but isn't that knowledgeable about it. Feedback anyone,
please.

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14b. Re: New puppy and new to raw, I need a little info, please
Posted by: "John and Jeni Blackmon" jonjeni777@sbcglobal.net jeniavidiva
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:40 am ((PDT))

You're headed in the right direction, now go to www.rawmeatybones.com
and read on. Drop the veggies and the yogurt, and the cheese no need for dairy, or anything else that isn't meat. You can do meat and fish, and garlic is good too, it keeps the fleas away and is a good antioxident. In small doses. You're there:) And you don't have to grind it. Let the dog eat it. No need for necks and wings, not enough meat, so use those for the bone factor, and boneless chicken for the meat. The ribs are great, but again, not enough meat, think bigger, more meat, and let them do the chewing, it's great for the teeth. Unless they don't have teeth, then grinding is the way to go.
You're doing great. Keep it up. And remember to do organs about once a week, you can include the organs that come with the chicken when you buy it whole, or the game hens, and that is your organ for the week:)
Keep us posted, and welcome!
Jeni

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14c. Re: New puppy and new to raw, I need a little info, please
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 9:52 am ((PDT))

You're doing a fantastic job on your own, congratulations. We can
help you come that extra bit so that you and your pup are where you
are feeding the best she can have. You're right, she's a carnivore
and doesn't need any of the veggies or grains. Some people feed
veggies and fruits as treats, but they shouldn't take up space when
it comes to mealtime.

You also don't have to spend the time to chop grind and freeze
patties. Though ground food does offer the nutrition that raw food
has to offer, it doesn't have the dental or mental benefits. When
dogs tear into raw meat, skin, and bones they keep their teeth and
gums nice and clean and healthy. Not to mention the mental
stimulation that dogs get when they get to eat as nature intended.
Instead of making ground patties, you can give whole foods. Chicken
quarters will give your girl lots more meat than just wings and
necks. Don't worry about cutting it up so she can eat it, let her do
it on her own. I promise she'll end up surprising you with how well
she does.

Eggs are good whole foods, you can give them whole and see if she
figures out how to eat them. You could also crack it into a bowl and
let her decide wether or not she wants to eat the shell. You're
definitely on the right track, congrats to you both!

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "janreedharrod"
<janreedharrod@...> wrote:

> Should I cut out the veggie patty, and mix egg with crushed shell
> along with yogurt and cheese into some of the meat patties and
> freeze them, or is that even necessary in her diet?

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15a. Re: maybe slight constipation
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:27 am ((PDT))

>Actually it's brown amd extremely minimal comparing to before.

Hi. I think that means your dog digesting things you fed pretty good. As long as your dog does not need to squat very very long time to poo or no poo coming out even if dog try to go poo,I think you are fine.

>When he was on kibble, I thought I had an elephant instead of a dog.

Yea,it is because kibble's ingredients.. many is with carb(veggie and rice etc),and so it makes huge volume in poo. Dog cannot digest carb very good.

And,you will find out that dog go poo much less than before,and poo is odor-less,and firmer than before.

When I first started my dog on chicken,she did about pinky size poo;length and width.
I was amazed to see it.

You are doing fine. If you think you have constipated dog,add more meat to meal and go for walking.Walking encourage bowel movement.

yassy

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Messages in this topic (4)
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