[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11949

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Mucousy poop;Is this from too much treats??
From: Yasuko herron
1b. Re: Mucousy poop;Is this from too much treats??
From: cypressbunny
1c. Re: Mucousy poop;Is this from too much treats??
From: Joyner, Katie
1d. Re: Mucousy poop;Is this from too much treats??
From: Yasuko herron
1e. Re: Mucousy poop;Is this from too much treats??
From: Yasuko herron

2a. Re: Peeing on spot where food was
From: Dina

3a. Re: HUGE PROBLEM!!! I need all of the help I can get!!!
From: Michael Moore

4a. Re: Hey y'all!
From: costrowski75
4b. Re: Hey y'all!
From: costrowski75

5a. Re: Chicken gizzard
From: costrowski75
5b. Re: Chicken gizzard
From: Yasuko herron
5c. Re: Chicken gizzard
From: costrowski75

6a. starting the raw diet
From: mandajenwalker
6b. Re: starting the raw diet
From: Sandee Lee

7a. vegetarian who wants to start feeding my ill 6 month old puppy raw
From: Rhonda
7b. Re: vegetarian who wants to start feeding my ill 6 month old puppy r
From: Laurie Swanson
7c. Re: vegetarian who wants to start feeding my ill 6 month old puppy r
From: Giselle

8a. Re: enhanced meats (was: HUGE PROBLEM!!! I need all of the help I ca
From: Laurie Swanson

9. Re: 10 month old dane
From: Felicia Kost

10a. Re: Diabetes and Raw Feeding
From: Sandee Lee

11a. New to raw...diarrhea...but not giving up! =)
From: coriowen
11b. Re: New to raw...diarrhea...but not giving up! =)
From: Sandee Lee

12. Interesting Study of Russian Foxes
From: irwin_bird

13. First week update
From: dawn_rescue

14.1. Re: turkey legs
From: delcaste

Messages
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1a. Re: Mucousy poop;Is this from too much treats??
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Thu Aug 23, 2007 2:41 pm ((PDT))

>I'm not sure if the mucous is a result of the treats,

Hi,Andrea. Since May,palette is not fed any commercial made biscuit at all. And,the neighbor's doggy treatswere quite big for palette.Maybe bigger than Thumb. They have rottie /chow mix weighing around 120lb. So,their treats are quite too much even one.

well,palette got 3 of those,plus 6inch length biscuit adding to the treat she got from me; 4inch or so lengthed oxtail treats from merricks.

Now,thelatest poo shedid at 12:30pm was finishing with clear water coming out from her butt(maybe about 1-2tbs worth?),I am thinking I can consider it as diarrhea..

I am wondering mucous does not appear with too much foor or with something that had not been fed for 3 month and it got irritated her intestine?

If that was not the culprit,it must be Duck. But the first time when I fed Duck,I started with Neck with fish with some organshe is getting usd to and she did fine.

Yestreday was Cut-up Duck. Portion I gave was under the wing area to above the leg.

I had to cut-up around 6 pieces.

so,mainly she got breast meat with rib bone. Since I did not remove all fat skin and left some,it could be one to suspect as well.

>maybe Palette just ate a particularly boney part of the duck during one meal.

Hmm,not really.I saw meatsome with Rib and she had fish too.I think too much bone is going to oposit direction;constipation or vomit bone from mouth.She isn't.

She is on raw about 3 month and some weeks and only time i saw her mucous with poo was with Lamb I had problem with. So,if the treat was not culprit,then,I suspect fat she takes.

>FWIW, there are some times that I don't allow people to give my boys treats. In order to >not offend them I tell a white lie and say that they are highly allergic to many grains, so >thank you but no treats for them.

yea,I could.. I just thought that saying No is somewhat rude,so,I didn't say any. In my mind,I was thinking that it could cause problems because she got cut off from store bought treats for 3 months now,and it may get irritated ,but like you said, maybe since she had it before and had no problem when I was giving and it maybe ok even now. But.. I am not sure if the treats causing that or Duck causing it still.

They one time gave palette 2 slice of salami! Well,Palette liked it but I was like..umm......

I don't remember if that cause any problems or not.

Anyway,I try fat skin more off from meal this time and see if this improve.

Thank you

yassy

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Messages in this topic (8)
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1b. Re: Mucousy poop;Is this from too much treats??
Posted by: "cypressbunny" cypressbunny@yahoo.com cypressbunny
Date: Thu Aug 23, 2007 2:44 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Yasuko herron
<sunshine_annamaria@...> wrote:
>
> > well,palette got 3 of those,plus 6inch length biscuit adding to
the treat she got from me;

*** So, she hasn't had any grain-based treats for months, and then
suddenly got 3 huge ones from the neighbor? I would blame the treats--
her system is no longer accustomed to dealing with these species-
inappropriate foods. Or perhaps, is no longer crippled by dealing with
those foods, and now disposes of them as quickly as possible.

--Carrie

Messages in this topic (8)
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1c. Re: Mucousy poop;Is this from too much treats??
Posted by: "Joyner, Katie" krjoyner@firstam.com pelle567
Date: Thu Aug 23, 2007 2:50 pm ((PDT))

That's some serious detail. Do you feed any dairy? When I feed too
much Kefir my dogs will get mucous-y stools.

Katie

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1d. Re: Mucousy poop;Is this from too much treats??
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Thu Aug 23, 2007 4:05 pm ((PDT))

> So, she hasn't had any grain-based treats for months, and then suddenly got 3 huge ones >from the neighbor?

Hi,Carrie. yea,after switching to raw in May,and after I noticed one of thedoggy biscuit I used to give got recalled,I tossed all biscuits that I had and no more commercially made doggy treats including semi soft training treats because I read something not too good about it;coloring and chemical and preservative like BHT and stuff like that.

So,from May, all treats she gets from me were either Bully sticks,MooTube(treachea treat),Texas tooth pics(natural oxtail treats) and the Beef liver treats that I dried in oven and use for training treats. So,yes,in our house,completely no grain based treats for at least 3 months now.

> I would blame the treats--her system is no longer accustomed to dealing with these >species-inappropriate foods. Or perhaps, is no longer crippled by dealing with
>those foods, and now disposes of them as quickly as possible.

yea,I talked about it to my husbandas well and, he said the same. He did not have chance to look at her poo but he suspeced that way.

Andrea said treats usually cause loose stool but not with mucous,so,I don't know for sure whether Duck or treats..made this.

I try removing fat skin from portion and see how she does.

So far.. from last poo,it has been 6 hours passed but no poo call from her so, I guess it getting stablized I think.

Thank you for your thoughts.

yassy

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Messages in this topic (8)
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1e. Re: Mucousy poop;Is this from too much treats??
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Thu Aug 23, 2007 4:15 pm ((PDT))

>Do you feed any dairy? When I feed too much Kefir my dogs will get mucous-y stools.

Hi,Katie. WEll,I know I know detail about waht fed and waht poo what time.. I know,I know.

Until I introduceall protin that I like to feed,I decided to keep journal.That makes you understand pattern or waht did not work before and how I tweeked it,what fishhad prob andwaht torelated well etc.. so,it really helps.

I usually have 4 line or so to write; I go like..

Aug 24
AM 8am solid poo,12:30pm softer sidepoo but with moucous,2:30pm bits with water from butt

Fed;xxx,yyy,zzz(write what I fed that day with amount)

And,if I wanted to leave comment or question I write one line.

Today,I may write;"Duck or treats?I tried removing some fat skin of Duck off"

Something like that. It is nothing big,not like every single detail in it. I just write out something I like to remember for later read.

Like I know I had prob with lamb tongue with palette and she can torelate 1 oz of tongue and more than that causing poo problems so,nexttime when I feed lamb, I feed 1 oz first and see if she can torelate 2 oz this time etc.. Really,when start out,at least for me,it helps a lot.
It is just me...You don't have to.

About dairy... I give frozen yogurt cube to cool her down after excersize just 1(I don't feed frosty paws too). She drool onto floor and she really like it but no,I don't give dairy every day.I sometimes gives non frozen Yogurt but it is not big amount;one spoonful if I give but that is that and not every day either.

yassy

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Messages in this topic (8)
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2a. Re: Peeing on spot where food was
Posted by: "Dina" dotdog99@comcast.net dmmelendez
Date: Thu Aug 23, 2007 2:48 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Kim Kapes" <kim@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> I have read this on several occasions andI thought I would shed some
> light on the subject for those that are interested
>
> The act of urinating on the spot where the food was is a way for the
> dog/wolf to mark an empty food cache.

Very interesting--I have a crate where I feed my dogs. I have a 3mth
old puppy that stays with me during the day and almost everyday he goes
in the feeding crate and pees. Now it all makes sense! The pup eats
raw as well--so now I know! Thanks for the info!

Dina
Pa

Messages in this topic (20)
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3a. Re: HUGE PROBLEM!!! I need all of the help I can get!!!
Posted by: "Michael Moore" m-tak@sbcglobal.net annemoore2000
Date: Thu Aug 23, 2007 2:49 pm ((PDT))

>>Yeah, they haven't cut down on the water intake at all, I'm going to
have to keep a close eye on that. I just don't see why he'd urinate
on the BED, and the coffee table?!?! I can see like, right by the
door if he couldn't hold it, but he was far from it.

The male is 7mos. and the female is 4 mos.<<

Okay, Peg -- think about this -- your male is now a teenager!! Despite being "altered," as you say, he's still a teenager. As a professional trainer, I can tell you positively that some altered dogs *do* indeed mark territory, and the places that he urinated are indicative of marking. This has nothing to do with not being able to "hold it," this is marking behavior. Whether the cause is vaccine damage or not, the underlying issue is -- this behavior needs to be corrected by behavior modification -- it is *not* in any way, shape or form related to the diet. That is coincidence!
And IMO, very, very, very few dogs at 7 mos. of age are "ready' to be loose in a house without direct adult supervision. There are too many things they can get into that are downright dangerous; crating with a young dog is a safety issue, first and foremost.

-- Anne Moore (M-Tak PWC and one goofy GSD rescue and a silly Golden rescue) in NW Ohio

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4a. Re: Hey y'all!
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Aug 23, 2007 2:54 pm ((PDT))

"delcaste" <delcaste@...> wrote:
I often
> overlook good buys on pork chops because I have gulpers and the bones
> are so cut and sharp. What do you think if I leave the bone but get
my
> trusty hammer and work on 'em.
*****
I aren't Giselle but IMO smashing bones that might not otherwise be
eaten allows the dog to ingest bone it might not comfortably digest--or
MORE bone that it can comfortably ingest.

Smashing bones doesn't make them more available for cleaning teeth,
exercising muscles and having a fun time. Smashing bones simply gets
them more quickly into the stomach. Which IMO is an achievement of
questionable merit.

Chris O

Messages in this topic (9)
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4b. Re: Hey y'all!
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Aug 23, 2007 3:11 pm ((PDT))

Yasuko herron <sunshine_annamaria@...> wrote:

> Hi.I heard that Joyce Chen scissor (red handle or white handle,cost
about 20 dollars atamazon.com) works great and I got them.
*****
Cutting turkey legs would not make them less worrisome. Cutting turkey
legs would simply generate a bunch of small, sharp-edged tubes to be
concerned about. Smashing would diminish the bone in all regards--
making it a somewhat more natural injury.

There are some things that need cutting apart. And there are
somethings that need bashing into many parts. (Not that either
treatment is required when feeding a good raw diet.)
Chris O

Messages in this topic (9)
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5a. Re: Chicken gizzard
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Aug 23, 2007 3:02 pm ((PDT))

Yasuko herron <sunshine_annamaria@...> wrote:
>> Since I feed it along with hunk of meat like say..Beef steak with
gizzard as muscle meat meal etc.., some days are without organs.
*****
<snicker>
This sounds like some of the meals I feed. Not too long ago I fed beef
meat, pork liver and heart, and chicken backs. Worked just fine.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (22)
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5b. Re: Chicken gizzard
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Thu Aug 23, 2007 4:04 pm ((PDT))

>Not too long ago I fed beef meat, pork liver and heart, and chicken backs. Worked just fine

Hi,Chris. I know I started out from wrong concept of feeding as you remember. I was busy trying to figure out which part is ok to feed and which isn't. It was so overwhelming and made me nervous but not now.I feel more comfortable than before.

I started with leg quarter and then chicken breast with rib for 1 st week of my dog feeding but after the week,I got whole chicken and did waht you all recomended and it worked fine.

I don't feed back/wing separately but yes,yours seem bit like mine.

Tomorrow for example will be Elk heart,Duck portion,chicken liver and Fish oil.

Similar:-P

Some days be like Beef steak,chicken gizzard, pork rib..

It worked fine for me and, freezer is crowded and no space for other animal's organ to be placed so,it is possiblethat after I finish up gizzard then,I may switch to other animal's liver instead not re-stock gizzard.It may take a while...

By the way,what does "snicker" mean??

All these 3 months I be here on list,you been so informative and I learnt so much from you.

I hope I keep learning from you and everybody and,I like to help others too when I can.

I really think this list really is a big help...and people are so kind. I am enjoying this list so much.

let's keep learning 1 at a time,everybody:-P

yassy

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Messages in this topic (22)
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5c. Re: Chicken gizzard
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Aug 23, 2007 4:46 pm ((PDT))

Yasuko herron <sunshine_annamaria@...> wrote:

> By the way,what does "snicker" mean??
*****
To me it means a little giggle between friends, a private "hee hee"
behind one's hand maybe. A maybe a nudge in the with an elbow. Or
maybe even--from Monty Python--wink, wink, nudge nudge.

Chris

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6a. starting the raw diet
Posted by: "mandajenwalker" walker1031@chartermi.net mandajenwalker
Date: Thu Aug 23, 2007 3:05 pm ((PDT))

Hi there, everyone~
I have been reading about the raw food diet and have decided to start
my dogs on it. I bought some chicken legs and quarters (cuz I heard
that is what ya start them on) but don't know how much to start
feeding my dogs.
I have a 22 lb. pug, a 35 lb. bull terrier and a 160 lb great dane. I
bought 10 lbs to start out with.......can someone help me...
My pug (Louie) has a bad hair loss thing going on (starting to look
like a chinese crested) and I am hoping putting him on this will help
alleviate this problem.
Thanks everyone,
Mandy

Messages in this topic (2)
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6b. Re: starting the raw diet
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Thu Aug 23, 2007 5:29 pm ((PDT))

Hi Mandy,

Start them out with approximately 2-3% of their ideal adult weight per day.
Feed chicken for a week or so until they have adjusted, then slowly begin
adding in other protein sources and organs. Pretty simple! :) Meanwhile,
read, read, read!!

You might want to pick up a few whole chickens...your Dane can easily eat
half if you are feeding two meals, whole if one.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "mandajenwalker" <walker1031@chartermi.net>

I have been reading about the raw food diet and have decided to start
my dogs on it. I bought some chicken legs and quarters (cuz I heard
that is what ya start them on) but don't know how much to start
feeding my dogs.
I have a 22 lb. pug, a 35 lb. bull terrier and a 160 lb great dane. I
bought 10 lbs to start out with.......can someone help me...
My pug (Louie) has a bad hair loss thing going on (starting to look
like a chinese crested) and I am hoping putting him on this will help
alleviate this problem.

Messages in this topic (2)
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7a. vegetarian who wants to start feeding my ill 6 month old puppy raw
Posted by: "Rhonda" rhonda18@gmail.com rhondabrabbin
Date: Thu Aug 23, 2007 3:21 pm ((PDT))

I am a vegetarian who wants to start feeding my 6 month old puppy with
type 1 insulin dependant diabetes and Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency
the RAW diet. I just wanted to know if there are any other vegetarians
out there and how they were able to get past dealing with raw meat. The
thought of it makes me sick but I think this diet would be beneficial
for my puppy with all her health problems.
I have a few questions, where do you guys find organic meat [as I would
never feed her anything but organic meat because I think all the
regular meat out there would make her worse with all the hormones and
diseases] How much do you buy at one time, where do you feed your dogs
as raw meat has got to be messy.
Sorry if I sound ignorant but I am new at this:)

Rhonda

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7b. Re: vegetarian who wants to start feeding my ill 6 month old puppy r
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Thu Aug 23, 2007 4:04 pm ((PDT))

Hi Rhonda,

I think there are quite a few of us vegetarians feeding raw meat to
our dogs. You will get more comfortable with it as you go along.
Just start with what you can handle and go from there. If you need
to wear latex gloves, that might help. Maybe you can try to remember
this is nature and you're doing the best for your dog by feeding this
way.

Organic meat may be slightly better than non-organic, but it's
probably not worth too much extra money, imo. It's often still fed
inappropriately (grain-fed). If/when you can afford it, try to find
grass-fed beef/lamb/goat, and more appropriately fed
chicken/turkey/pork. You can find grass-fed meats direct from
farmers or hunters, at farmers' markets, through local buying groups
(where are you located?), at some Asian markets (they usually have
goat, and I think it's usually grass-fed), or (expensive) at some
health food stores.

HOWEVER...you will be doing GREAT to just get your girl on any raw
meat! You can go to any old store and get a couple chickens
(not "enhanced" or injected with anything--read the fine print on the
label) and feed them and feel good! Then keep reading the list and
gradually move onto other sources.

Start with 2-3% of ideal adult body weight per day and adjust as
necessary. Search the archives for info on feeding puppies. And
also for info on diabetes and EPI. Poor girl... Please let us know
how things go and how she improves!

I buy through our local buying co-op and at grocery stores (including
Asian markets). I have a full freezer right now, but started with
small quantities as I was learning.

You can feed anywhere--I feed on a towel in the living room. Others
do vinyl shower curtains, bath mats, blankets, outside on the
patio/in the yard, in crates, or just on the kitchen floor.

Laurie

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7c. Re: vegetarian who wants to start feeding my ill 6 month old puppy r
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Thu Aug 23, 2007 5:58 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Rhonda!
I just want to say, "Yay to you for coming over to the Raw
Side!" and wanting to do the best for your pup and add a bit of my .02
cents to Laurie's great post (I'm definitely a meatatarian) by saying
that you could use double gloves, or the heavier, longer cuffed,
reusable ones sold as dishwashing gloves when handling raw until you
get used to it.

There are some people on this list who are very knowledgeable about
feeding dogs with EPI and diabetes, they'll chime in with some solid
advice, I'm sure.

How did your pup get diagnosed with such diseases at such a young age?
If I'm not mistaken, these are diseases that usually manifest in a dog
when they are older.

TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> I think there are quite a few of us vegetarians feeding raw meat to
> our dogs. You will get more comfortable with it as you go along.
> Just start with what you can handle and go from there. If you need
> to wear latex gloves, that might help. Maybe you can try to remember
> this is nature and you're doing the best for your dog by feeding this
> way.
>
> Organic meat may be slightly better than non-organic, but it's
> probably not worth too much extra money, imo. It's often still fed
> inappropriately (grain-fed). If/when you can afford it, try to find
> grass-fed beef/lamb/goat, and more appropriately fed
> chicken/turkey/pork. You can find grass-fed meats direct from
> farmers or hunters, at farmers' markets, through local buying groups
> (where are you located?), at some Asian markets (they usually have
> goat, and I think it's usually grass-fed), or (expensive) at some
> health food stores.
<snip>
> You can feed anywhere--I feed on a towel in the living room. Others
> do vinyl shower curtains, bath mats, blankets, outside on the
> patio/in the yard, in crates, or just on the kitchen floor.
>
> Laurie
>

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8a. Re: enhanced meats (was: HUGE PROBLEM!!! I need all of the help I ca
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Thu Aug 23, 2007 3:22 pm ((PDT))

Peg,

"Enhanced" meat is meat that has had broth or other solutions
added/injected into it. You have to read the fine print on the label.

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Peggy" <peggy070605@...> wrote:
I don't give them meat that's enhanced with
> anything. (I don't give them organic meat, but I personally don't add
> anything to the meat.)
>

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9. Re: 10 month old dane
Posted by: "Felicia Kost" saphiradane@yahoo.com saphiradane
Date: Thu Aug 23, 2007 4:04 pm ((PDT))

Hi Karim,
Relax! There are lots of dane people here and much great advice to learn from about raw feeding dogs in general. I just switched two of mine ( one 12months) with no problems and better health. Have Fun, Felicia

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10a. Re: Diabetes and Raw Feeding
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Thu Aug 23, 2007 4:11 pm ((PDT))

Frankie,

Do a search in the archives...this has been discussed frequently on the
list. Of course, a raw diet is essential with diabetes as carbohydrates are
damaging to the pancreas and allow blood sugar to spike and plummet.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "doguenanny" <Dixie4911@aol.com>

A friend of mine's lab was recently diagnosed with diabetes (she said
it's the insulin dependent type). I have always talked to her about
feeding raw, but she never thought about switching. Until now. I told
her it would be the best thing she could do for her dog, especially
now.

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11a. New to raw...diarrhea...but not giving up! =)
Posted by: "coriowen" COwen98@aol.com coriowen
Date: Thu Aug 23, 2007 4:57 pm ((PDT))

I told y'all yesterday(evening) was the first raw meal for my 4 girls
and this afternoon was the second, well they all have BAD diarrhea
which I thought would be the case. Everyon is acting very normal and
going crazy about the chicken for their meals instead of kibble. My 2
1/2 year old Dachshund actually ate raw before she came to me at 3 mos
old from my awesome breeder up in Oregon so this isn't new to her. I'm
sure she has been wondering what happened to ther GOOD stuff! LOL I
tried it a while back but it just didn't go as smoothly as y'all have
made it for us. BTW, does anyone shop at Sam's for meats? Do they
have good meats to purchase in bulk? I know for humans they actually
carry great cuts of meat for great prices. I live about an hour from
the closest Sam's but I thought I would go by there and stock up. Any
suggestions? I don't have a Costco nearby, so that is not an option.
Cori

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11b. Re: New to raw...diarrhea...but not giving up! =)
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Thu Aug 23, 2007 5:03 pm ((PDT))

Cori,

Do you mean soft stools or uncontrollable watery diarrhea? Soft stools can
happen with diet change. Make sure you are not feeding too much as that
also can be a cause.

Glad to hear they are feeling good and happy with their new food! :))

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "coriowen" <COwen98@aol.com>

I told y'all yesterday(evening) was the first raw meal for my 4 girls
and this afternoon was the second, well they all have BAD diarrhea
which I thought would be the case. Everyon is acting very normal and
going crazy about the chicken for their meals instead of kibble.

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12. Interesting Study of Russian Foxes
Posted by: "irwin_bird" iamentropygirl@gmail.com irwin_bird
Date: Thu Aug 23, 2007 5:05 pm ((PDT))

I remembered the other day about a study we research way back in bio
class of Russian scientist studying the genes of "tame" foxes. They were
breeding foxes specifically for "tame doglike behavior" and one of the
things they noticed is that quickly (in a few generations) not only were
the foxes tamer and more doglike (the aim of the study) but they also
looked more like dogs.

There was more variation from the wild type in their appearance and they
had more dog like colors and shaggy fur

I thought this was interesting (and relevant) because the tame dog foxes
would still have the exact same nutritional requirments as the wild
foxes. The silver fox is closely related to the dog/wolf so it stands
to reason that changing wolf appearance/behavior was just as easy and
took place in a relatively few generations. Much faster than it would
take to affect any real change in nutritional needs

the aim of the study wasn't about what tame foxes would look like or
eat, but it is an interesting side effect

they have a website here
http://cbsu.tc.cornell.edu/ccgr/behaviour/Index.htm
<http://cbsu.tc.cornell.edu/ccgr/behaviour/Index.htm> and the study has
been in progress since 1959.

Lindsay

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (1)
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13. First week update
Posted by: "dawn_rescue" dteuscher@tx.rr.com dawn_rescue
Date: Thu Aug 23, 2007 5:53 pm ((PDT))

I just wanted to thank everyone for their help and give an update on
our first RAW week. My littlest Newfie (6 months) has been plagued
with diarrhea off and on ever since I got her. We have fecals done all
of the time and can't find an answer. She hasn't been gaining the
weight that she should be. After two days on the RAW she had the
firmest stools she has ever had and she gained 3.5 lbs this week!! My
other Newfies have not had any diarrhea at all and all seem to be
enjoying their meals. They all seem a little more "settled" if that
makes any sense. Anyway thanks again for all of the great advice and
help!

Dawn T

Messages in this topic (1)
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14.1. Re: turkey legs
Posted by: "delcaste" delcaste@yahoo.com delcaste
Date: Thu Aug 23, 2007 5:56 pm ((PDT))

***Cut into chunks, IMO, turkey legs are just the right size for stupid
> eating, even for pugs. Or maybe especially for pugs, since many pugs
> do seem to have cheerfully inflated opinions of their size and
> ability. I think chunked turkey legs would be too small and too many
> sharp edges and maybe even too hard. But it might be I'm so
accustomed to looking at meaty bones for BIG dogs that I can't properly
judge meaty bones for little dogs.******

I think I'll just have to hammer them. Some drms were really full of
meat, enough for them to have a meal but now I'm nervous so I'll hammer
them. Other pieces were small and I could whack them, too. They were
really cheap and meaty :(***

***The grocer told me it was softer than chicken but I rely on you.***

I think he was wrong but I suspect you can do better than to rely on me!
> Chris O

Oh,no, I rely on you and the rest of the board, of course. If I
listened to my grocer, I'd be at the vet's having tooth work done.

Silvina with the cheerful & inflated pugs

Messages in this topic (30)
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