[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11940

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Does it matter?
From: Brandi Bryant
1b. Re: Does it matter?
From: Giselle
1c. Re: Does it matter?
From: costrowski75

2a. Re: whole side of lamb - how to instruct butcher to cut?
From: Cathy Tweeddale Mitchell

3.1. Re: question
From: Katie
3.2. Re: question
From: Olga
3.3. Re: question
From: costrowski75
3.4. Re: question
From: Andrea

4.1. Re: chicken-only diet (was: question)
From: Katie

5a. rats!
From: Judy Asarkof
5b. Re: rats!
From: Shannon Parker

6a. Re: Fish Oil dosages
From: kaebruney
6b. Re: Fish Oil dosages
From: Yasuko herron
6c. Re: Fish Oil dosages
From: Halo Harris
6d. Re: Fish Oil dosages
From: costrowski75
6e. Re: Fish Oil dosages
From: ginny wilken

7a. 7mo puppy--switching to raw ?
From: jo11931
7b. Re: 7mo puppy--switching to raw ?
From: Andrea

8a. Re: traveling with raw/Coleman cooler ?s
From: Halo Harris

9.1. Re: Vet wants a low protein diet
From: Olga
9.2. Re: Vet wants a low protein diet
From: costrowski75

10a. Re: help!!! frustated and upset!!
From: Halo Harris

11a. Re: vet says Yeay to rawfeeding
From: costrowski75

12a. Re: She is getting sick every night
From: Olga

13. Anyone feed bracheocephalic dogs?
From: pelle567

Messages
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1a. Does it matter?
Posted by: "Brandi Bryant" bbryant573@gmail.com bbryant573
Date: Wed Aug 22, 2007 7:06 am ((PDT))

I'm assuming that it's alright to get whole fryers? Just means that
they were younger when slaughtered right and more tender then say a
roaster, right? Or is a whole chicken preferred? Just curious.

I got extra money for dog training I'm going shopping for meat today
after work and after getting a Wednesday paper....

Thanks in advanced!!!

--
Brandi
Bartlesville, Ok
www.obediencetrainingclubofbartlesville.com

Messages in this topic (3)
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1b. Re: Does it matter?
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Wed Aug 22, 2007 7:25 am ((PDT))

Whole chickens is good! Doesn't matter if they are fryers or roasters,
or in parts, as long as the $$ are right!
Good hunting.....
Giselle

> I'm assuming that it's alright to get whole fryers? Just means that
> they were younger when slaughtered right and more tender then say a
> roaster, right? Or is a whole chicken preferred? Just curious.
>
> I got extra money for dog training I'm going shopping for meat today
> after work and after getting a Wednesday paper....
>
> Thanks in advanced!!!
>
> --
> Brandi
> Bartlesville, Ok
> www.obediencetrainingclubofbartlesville.com
>

Messages in this topic (3)
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1c. Re: Does it matter?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Aug 22, 2007 9:26 am ((PDT))

"Brandi Bryant" <bbryant573@...> wrote:
>
> I'm assuming that it's alright to get whole fryers? Just means that
> they were younger when slaughtered right and more tender then say a
> roaster, right? Or is a whole chicken preferred? Just curious.
*****
Brandi, except when I am feeding pups or newbie boarders, the smallest
chicken part I buy is whole fryers. They are slaughtered at six weeks
or so and have had very little opportunity to build up leg bone
density. But if you can buy whole roasters cheaper though, do it!
They are not much older and other than that there's no difference.

For my dogs, buying chicken by the part simply makes no sense at all.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
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2a. Re: whole side of lamb - how to instruct butcher to cut?
Posted by: "Cathy Tweeddale Mitchell" duckndogs@telus.net duckndog
Date: Wed Aug 22, 2007 7:14 am ((PDT))

On Wed, 22 Aug 2007 08:01:20 -0000, quiltingtuppy wrote:

>I'm fortunate to be able to join an organic lamb bulk order at a great price, I'll be ordering a
>whole side of lamb. Obviously the family will be eating the better bits but, being new at raw
>feeding, not sure what to ask the butcher to do. If I don't speak up, he cuts them into
>standard supermarket cuts. Could someone please enlighten me? I have a medium sized
>dog.

That all depends how much of the lamb the family will be eating. Normally you'd get a shoulder, leg, shank, rack (normally "frenched", btw), some chops
and either mince or stew meat. The shoulder and leg can be cut into steaks for yourself if you don't want a roast.

So, you have to decide what you want and the rest can be given to the dog.

Normally when I have a lamb or pig for the dogs I ask for the meat/bones to be cut into about one pound chunks. No specific cuts whatsoever.

With lamb, I ask for everything else to be returned with the meat. Legs, offal, etc. Ask if there will be any legs or offal from the other lambs that you can
take as well. The legs are pretty much cleaned off but have a bit of meat and the dogs really enjoy chewing them. Not so heavy that they are considered
too strong for the dog. The lamb is about 50-100 lbs tops when it goes to market (depending on breed) so weight bearing is relative.

Hope that helps.

Cathy
Heron's Landing Reg'd Suffolk Sheep

Duckndogs Labrador Retrievers
Guaranteed to Retrieve Your Heart!
www.duckndogs.net

Messages in this topic (2)
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3.1. Re: question
Posted by: "Katie" kcrockett@mac.com kcrockettla7
Date: Wed Aug 22, 2007 7:25 am ((PDT))

WHY?

I can't help feeling like i'm missing something . . .
(I do feed more than chicken . . . but i'm wanting to know what the REASON is . . . other than
variety, as I've said).

And knowing WHY will help me, I think, in knowing how much variety?

thanks.

...katie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "costrowski75" <Chriso75@...> wrote:

> >> I realize variety is better . . . but, theoretically, would checken,
> including organs, be
> > sufficient?
> *****
> Theoretically, no.
> Accidentally, yes.

Messages in this topic (73)
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3.2. Re: question
Posted by: "Olga" olga.drozd@gmail.com olga_d
Date: Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:35 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Katie" <kcrockett@...> wrote:
> (I do feed more than chicken . . . but i'm wanting to know what the
> REASON is . . . other than variety, as I've said).

If you looked up the nutrient values in meats (not that I recommend
doing that, it makes my head spin) you'd find that they vary depending
on the protein and body part. It's not different from human nutrition
really - if you have low iron levels you'll be told to eat more red
meats and liver, fish for the EFAs, etc. All meats are not created
equal, and each has a benefit that makes it a valuable addition to the
diet.

Also, today's grocery store chicken has been bred to be very mild
tasting (for human taste buds) and have lots of breast meat (to make
more money). It's not at all like wild fowl that a dog/wolf would
catch in the wild. Plus of course the way they are farmed and fed is
far from ideal, and many are injected with that nasty "solution" to
keep them tender during cooking. The benefits are that chicken is
cheap and available, and for most dogs also easy to digest (i.e.
during tummy upsets) but that does not make it the perfect food.

I hope that answers your question, especially since I wasn't really
sure what your question was. ;)

Olga

Messages in this topic (73)
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3.3. Re: question
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:02 am ((PDT))

"Katie" <kcrockett@...> wrote:
>
> WHY?
>
> I can't help feeling like i'm missing something . . .
> (I do feed more than chicken . . . but i'm wanting to know what the
REASON is . . . other than
> variety, as I've said).
>
> And knowing WHY will help me, I think, in knowing how much variety?
*****
Easy part first. There's hardly ever a point of too much when it
comes to variety. The practical way to decide how much is too much
is if one spends all one's free time tracking down new foods. I
mean, ALL new foods...no new food left unturned.

Too much variety is when one feeds novel food for the sake of doing
so, not in order to "flesh out" the menu or provide nutrients that
are otherwise lacking. If you are open to variety that when
opportunity presents it, that's good. If you are not content with
last week's variety, then maybe that's a food too far.

The why of variety is harder, at least for me to describe. The
closer you feed to whole species appropriate prey--large and small
ruminants, ungulates, other smaller mammals plus fish and some fowl--
the less you have to worry about variety. A life of wild elk, elk
and elk, with maybe occasional deer and the odd salmon is limited in
protein source but the sources are choice.

The further you feed from whole species appropriate prey, the more
protein variety and body part variety help to deliver all the
necessary vitamins and minerals, plus lots of meat and plenty of
edible bone. A life of factory chicken ala factory chicken will
provide lopsided and unhealthy levels of Omega 6 from a soy and grain-
based diet, complete with meds and supplements.

Feeding as many chicken parts as possible plus beef heart (or pork or
lamb or buffalo, etc.) is about the simplest variety to seek. Adding
pork is a good step forward. Adding another red meat or fish is a
step again. Each new variety adds a bit of something here, a tad
more of something there.

That say, a diet of chicken ala chicken will suffice if that's all
you've got to offer...at least for a while. Just feed as much of the
chicken as you can. And keep your eyes peeled for opportunity.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (73)
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3.4. Re: question
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:32 am ((PDT))

You can find out the nutrient content of different kinds of raw meats
using the USDA website. Make sure you type in "raw"

http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/

You'll see that different animals have different amounts of
nutrients, even different cuts of meat have different levels. For
example, I compared raw pork picnic roast to raw chicken w/ skin
(this website doesn't include nutrients in bone). Pound for pound,
pork shoulder has more potassium, zinc, selenium, thiamin, and
riboflavin while chicken has more Vitamin E, vit K, and saturated
fats. How many of these are important? I don't know. Would a dog
become deficient in zinc if fed only chicken? Again, I don't know.
But since different body parts from different animals offer different
levels of mostly the same nutrients, it's better IMO to feed a large
variety so that things end up balancing out.

How much variety is enough? That's hard to answe too. I can't get
venison, emu, or other more exotic animals at this point. I'd like
to, and I'll keep trying to find a good source, but I can get the
basics. Pork, beef, rabbit, chicken, turkey, goat, lamb, duck etc.
For me, that's a good variety, but I'm always trying to do better. I
don't know if that helps or not, but it helped me when I was trying
to wrap my mind around the variety issue.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Katie" <kcrockett@...> wrote:

> I can't help feeling like i'm missing something . . .
> (I do feed more than chicken . . . but i'm wanting to know what the
> REASON is . . . other than variety, as I've said).

Messages in this topic (73)
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4.1. Re: chicken-only diet (was: question)
Posted by: "Katie" kcrockett@mac.com kcrockettla7
Date: Wed Aug 22, 2007 7:26 am ((PDT))

i do feed other stuff . . . i was just curious if there is a reason other than adding variety for
having other meats.

Thanks for your answer!

...katie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Laurie Swanson" <laurie@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Katie,
>
> I don't have any "facts" about this--haven't heard of any studies on
> chicken-only diets (there are hardly any studies on raw, period).
> I'm sure there are people who feed their dogs chicken only. It's
> better than kibble or canned. But from what I've read, wolves'
> primary diet would be more like elk/caribou/venison with maybe some
> snacks of mice or fowl or fish when available or when other prey is
> scarce. So it makes sense to me that red meat (beef, lamb, pork,
> goat, venison, etc.) is probably better for them, and they probably
> would be missing quite a bit if they never had any. If you can find
> and afford it, I would suggest adding in more variety. If you can't,
> just keep looking for more/cheaper sources and add it in as you go.

Messages in this topic (73)
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5a. rats!
Posted by: "Judy Asarkof" rigleyman@aol.com rigleyman
Date: Wed Aug 22, 2007 7:38 am ((PDT))

Hi guys:

I just inherited a very sick rat last night. I suspect the poor dear
is suffering from nutritional deficiencies since it has eaten "rat
diet" all its 3 years of life. From my research - rats eat meat, nuts,
seeds, vegetables, etc.

Anyone on this list feed a natural diet to their rats. Because he is
so sick and weak - I don't want to over-do the good food and kill him
with good intentions. So any advice would be welcome.

He is absolutely starving for good food. So far I've given him a
couple organic blueberries, a few pieces of veggies, and a
grasshopper. You should have seen him eat the grasshopper - he knew
exactly what to do!

He has lost most of his hair, has a growth on his side and oh - so weak.

I aim to help him! But need your knowledge.

Judy for CJ

Messages in this topic (2)
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5b. Re: rats!
Posted by: "Shannon Parker" mrbatisse@yahoo.ca mrbatisse
Date: Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:23 am ((PDT))

Hi Judy,

I used to have rats for years...and they all lived a good 4 years on a diet of great variety. You are definitely on the right track with what you've described. If he's very sick, you may want to get him in to the vet for some subcutaneous fluids right away.

As for diet, I always fed a diet of mixed seeds to which I added dried fruit, nuts (no salt), fresh fruit, veggies, and a bit of meat. On top of that my rats always seemed to know that if they hung out on my lap during mealtime they would get a bit of whatever I was eating.
This post is a bit off-topic and will probably be chucked into cyberspace by the Moderators, but feel free to email me off list if you have any other questions.

Shannon

Judy Asarkof <rigleyman@aol.com> wrote:
Hi guys:

I just inherited a very sick rat last night. I suspect the poor dear
is suffering from nutritional deficiencies since it has eaten "rat
diet" all its 3 years of life. From my research - rats eat meat, nuts,
seeds, vegetables, etc.

---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (2)
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6a. Re: Fish Oil dosages
Posted by: "kaebruney" kaebruney@yahoo.com kaebruney
Date: Wed Aug 22, 2007 7:39 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "emmiemileslouie" <lklora@...> wrote:

> Hi Kae,
>
> Check out message # 138076 that ChrisO posted.
>
> Linda
>

Thanks Linda!

I looked up the info and understand the 1000mg (180/120) per 20lbs
daily for maintenance.

Since I am using pills and have 2 small dogs, should I supplement
weekly? I don't want to over do it.

Thanks again !

Kae

Messages in this topic (7)
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6b. Re: Fish Oil dosages
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Wed Aug 22, 2007 7:47 am ((PDT))

>Does anyone know where I can find info for fish oil dosages in dogs?

Hi. I am using Fish oil Capsule too.

1 (1000mg) Fish oil capsule per 20lb body weight

My dog 30lb,so,I need 1.5 capsule per day but it is hard to give just half of 1 capsule so,I giving 1 capsule 1 day and next day I giving 2 Capsule and it evens out over time.

yassy

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Messages in this topic (7)
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6c. Re: Fish Oil dosages
Posted by: "Halo Harris" h.halo@yahoo.com h.halo
Date: Wed Aug 22, 2007 7:54 am ((PDT))

I give 2 omega 3 a day with one unit of vit. e 400 IU
Halo
--- emmiemileslouie <lklora@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> > Does anyone know where I can find info for fish
> oil dosages in dogs?
> > Kae
>
>
> Hi Kae,
>
> Check out message # 138076 that ChrisO posted.
>
> Linda
>
>

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6d. Re: Fish Oil dosages
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Aug 22, 2007 9:15 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "kaebruney" <kaebruney@...> wrote:
>
> Does anyone know where I can find info for fish oil dosages in dogs?
*****
I suggest you search the list message archives to find your answers.
It is topic often discussed: I believe the subject reappeared as
recently as July or early August of this year.

Some topics just keep coming around. Fish oil doses is one of these
topics. You cannot go wrong searching the archives.

If you don't know how to, please holler.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (7)
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6e. Re: Fish Oil dosages
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Wed Aug 22, 2007 10:09 am ((PDT))

>
>>> Does anyone know where I can find info for fish
>> oil dosages in dogs?
>>> Kae

It's only food, not a drug, so I treat it as food and don't agonize
over the amounts. I'd not worry about giving anyone a cap a day, or a
tablespoonful of bulk liquid or more a couple of times a week. Figure
it as a diet item: you've fed however much of Omega 3 poor meat, so
give a bit of oil to balance it out. When you feed better quality,
like grass-fed, then don't worry about it just then. You can't really
OD on this, except by giving more fat than a dog can handle, and boy,
that's not likely. The usual caveat here is that it's only cooked,
rendered fats that predispose toward pancreatic attacks, so no worry
there. Dogs use fat for energy.

Also, if you're feeding a herd or a big dog, bulk oil - we get ours
from Timberwolf Organics - is much more economical.

ginny and Tomo

All stunts performed without a net!

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Messages in this topic (7)
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7a. 7mo puppy--switching to raw ?
Posted by: "jo11931" jo11931@yahoo.com jo11931
Date: Wed Aug 22, 2007 7:43 am ((PDT))

Hi everyone. My name is JoAnn and our family just
adopted Linus a 7mo lab/boxer mix. I am switching from
kibble to raw and have a few questions. I am planning
on buying chicken and from reading here see that
buying whole chickens tends to be the most economical.

Now once I get that home how do I cut it up for him to
eat?

Does he need ground chicken because he is still a pup?
Meaning he isn't given a big piece with a bone.

Are there any bones from any meat that we should avoid
because of choking problems?

I am also wondering what is a good bone he can have to
knaw on that will take a while for him to get through?

I was going to have him on raw from the time we got
him home but I was feeling too overwhelmed with the
process. That must sound silly to those who have been
doing this a long time. Now though I think I can do
this.

Thanks for all the information everyone shares here.

Living and learning in Indiana,

JoAnn
mom to 4girls and one boy dog

Messages in this topic (2)
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7b. Re: 7mo puppy--switching to raw ?
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:23 am ((PDT))

Hi, JoAnn, and welcome to the group! Switching a young pup is really
easy to do, they usually adapt very quickly. Yes, chicken is a good
idea to start with since it is easiest on everyone. For a lab/boxer
mix you can cut the chicken into quarters and feed those to him.

> Does he need ground chicken because he is still a pup?

I've started 8week old pups to whole raw and they never have a
problem crunching through chicken bone. Your boy is seven months old
so he should be able to get through pretty big bones by now. Whole
bone in meaty portions for this boy.

> Are there any bones from any meat that we should avoid
> because of choking problems?

For large dogs I don't feed chicken necks, wings, or drumsticks if
they aren't attached to the bird. Pork chops, country style ribs,
and some random beef steak cuts have small cut bones that are just
small enough to swallow whole. Anything that has bone that is cut
into chunks the size of your fist (pork or beef neck, pork feet,
oxtails, mutton, etc) should be avoided.

> I am also wondering what is a good bone he can have to
> knaw on that will take a while for him to get through?

My favorite "puppy sitting" food is pork shoulder. It is covered in
fantastic amounts of meat and the bone is soft but large. Pig and
cow feet can be good chew toys as well. You want to stay away from
the large leg bones of heavy animals since those bones are really
dense and can damage teeth over time.

> I was going to have him on raw from the time we got
> him home but I was feeling too overwhelmed with the
> process. That must sound silly to those who have been
> doing this a long time.

Not at all! I remember feeding my puppy a chicken quarter for the
first time quite vividly. I broke out in a cold sweat and watched
him intently all day to make sure he wasn't going to keel over. I
printed out reams of information about the nutritional content of raw
foods, compared with AAFCO standards (what a waste), and made a
database so I could figure out exactly how much of every nutrient he
consumed every day. We're all bombarded with the pet food
advertising that convinces us that we couldn't possibly be skilled
enough to feed our companion animals. It's hard to get over the need
to be "sure" you are covering all the bases, but once you see the
physical results from a species appropriate diet you realize that
your dog is all the proof you need.

Andrea

Messages in this topic (2)
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8a. Re: traveling with raw/Coleman cooler ?s
Posted by: "Halo Harris" h.halo@yahoo.com h.halo
Date: Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:23 am ((PDT))

Thanks, I hope all the raw keeps. Will have to buy
loads of ice. Really surprised McDonalds sold the raw
hamburg.
Halo
--- johkemp <johkemp@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

> ***MODERATOR'S NOTE: PLEASE SIGN YOUR MESSAGES.***
>
> When travelling with our pup at nine weeks she
> needed several feeds
> along the way(two days - one night stopover). I
> froze portions for her
> to eat that night and for breakfast and bought her
> lunch at McDonalds.
> I had to convince them to sell me a raw patty but
> they eventually did.
>
>

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9.1. Re: Vet wants a low protein diet
Posted by: "Olga" olga.drozd@gmail.com olga_d
Date: Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:24 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Lori Poirier <chaparraltrail@...>
wrote:
> It seems very important for some on this list to "prove" that raw is
> relatively low in protein. Why is that? It isn't true, and besides,
> the protein in the raw food is good for them.

I agree with you that raw isn't low in protein. But then many people
have the misconception (hopefully not vets at least!) that raw is 100%
protein. In fact, I've had people tell me so!

They just don't realize that it's like 65-75% water, so how in the
world can it be 100% protein? Or maybe they failed math class. ;)

Having the water as a natural part of the food is much healthier than
eating dry nuggets and then adding extra water after. And then of
course it expands in the stomach, causing all sorts of potential
problems. Doesn't sound healthy to me and I'm constantly amazed when
vets insist that this is the "safe" feeding choice.

Olga

Messages in this topic (36)
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9.2. Re: Vet wants a low protein diet
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Aug 22, 2007 9:10 am ((PDT))

Lori Poirier <chaparraltrail@...> wrote:
> The typical raw diet is higher in protein than the typical kibble
or canned food diet. The vet's perception about that is correct.
*****
I think you need to explain your terms. You don't want to provide
numbers, then give me definitions. Let no assertion or assumption go
undefined. What do you mean? How simple can I say it?

Perhaps you are talking apples, oranges, peaches and bananas and I am
just talking apples.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (36)
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10a. Re: help!!! frustated and upset!!
Posted by: "Halo Harris" h.halo@yahoo.com h.halo
Date: Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:35 am ((PDT))

Thats for sure my neighbor was throwing dinner rolls
over the fence, I found my dog with one in its mouth
and about had a fit. I went over there after work and
nicely sugested that they keep their eyes out as
someone is throwing food over my fence and I don't
want that.
Halo
--- Morledzep@aol.com wrote:

>
> In a message dated 8/21/2007 7:45:32 PM Pacific
> Standard Time,
> luvthisphysique@yahoo.com writes:
>
> don't know if
> it's the weather, or him just being a brat?? what
> should i do??
>
>
>

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11a. Re: vet says Yeay to rawfeeding
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:53 am ((PDT))

"johkemp" <johkemp@...> wrote:
> >When I explain how I feed my pets my answer is
>
> "A prey model diet based around Raw Meaty Bones. This includes offal
> and the occasional table scraps."
>
> I use this to remove myself from the 'ground bone, vegetables,
> supplements and pre-packaged patties' school of BARF feeders. There
> also seem to be a lot of uninformed people who feed their dogs just
> meat off the bone.
>
*****
I think this is as good a start as any, but while it's true to the
intent of the author, it's not terribly true to nature and it typically
shortchanges our dogs.

RMBs are only as good as the meat that's on them. A RMB that is mostly
bone (beef necks, pork necks, chicken or rabbit frames, chicken wings,
beef ribs, etc.) simply does not provide adequate meat to a species
that naturally consumes as much as 80% meat. These RMBs--meaty only by
terminology, not practice--should be fed with additional meat or should
be rotated in the diet with plenty of boneless meals. These meals
offer large amounts of edible bone, but alas, a dog (a wolf) needs
little more than 10%-15% of its diet as edible bone.

Most RMBs are not 75%-80% meat. RMBs on a good day may deliver as
little as 25% edible bone but typically RMBs are 50% bone or higher,
and RMBs consisting of 75% bone are not uncommon. It would be
inappropriate to feed a dog a steady diet of this much bone.

RMBs chosen for the amount of meat--not bone--are more expensive and
more difficult to find. Since price and availability are significant
issues for raw feeders, it's easy to see why too bony/inadequately
meaty RMBs are the norm rather than the exception.

So when you say, simplistically, that you feed tablescraps and RMBs
(quite accurately reprising the author's recommendations), you are most
likely not feeding enough meat to a species that requires a lot of it.
If the RMBs you feed are essentially defined by the bone, not the meat,
then please for the sake of your dog, add meat to the meal (or feed a
second meaty meal) or feed some (as many as half?) meals without bone,
or feed meaty bones of which only a small amount of bone is actually
edible.

If you are feeding RMBs that are lusciously meaty--that are so meaty
you cannot easily determine the shape or position of the bone--then you
have indeed found yourself some swell RMBs and I commend your efforts.

I dislike the term RMB because it assumes virtue where none may exist.
If the RMB is not significantly meat, it does not have bragging rights.

A more useful (and intentionally vague) term is "body parts." In a
good raw diet, some body parts are meaty, some body parts are bony,
some body parts are organs, and some body parts are just hunks of
flesh, fat, skin and connective tissue. The specific part determines
whether it's bone or meat. One has to judge the part by its visible
substance. No part has advance PR hype to sell its image over reality.

What kind of RMBs are you feeding?
Chris O

Messages in this topic (11)
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12a. Re: She is getting sick every night
Posted by: "Olga" olga.drozd@gmail.com olga_d
Date: Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:25 am ((PDT))

Hi Donna,

Sorry to hear that your pup is vomiting. I'll share some related
experience and maybe that will help.

A few weeks ago we moved to a new house. One of my dogs gets stressed
by changes in our routine and has separation anxiety, so this was a
big deal to him. He started eating a lot of grass (typically he is
only a light grass eater) and each day we would come home from work to
a bile vomit spot, usually with a bit of bone and some grass. I've
been stopping him from eating so much grass and the vomiting has
gotten much better. I think for Mayhem it was the stress/change that
made him eat a lot of grass, and the result was yuck on our floor.
Also, sometimes the stress response (grass eating) can remain as a
habit even after the stressor has disappeared, so why don't you go
outside with her so she can do her business, but don't let her eat
grass, and see how that goes?

Shortly after we started raw we fed some turkey drumsticks (which were
pretty big). We also had some bone upchucking with these, which
seemed to go away after a while. However we didn't feed them daily,
so it wasn't too bad for us. I would stop the turkey drums for now,
and as Catherine suggested add another meat - 2 weeks on chicken and
turkey seems long enough for me.

Olga

Messages in this topic (4)
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13. Anyone feed bracheocephalic dogs?
Posted by: "pelle567" krjoyner@firstam.com pelle567
Date: Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:26 am ((PDT))

I have 2 APBT, a Golden/Beagle mix and my new addition to the family
is a pekingese. He loves his raw food, but he DOES not have the
ability to chew up his bones like my other big kids. Does anyone feed
dogs with flat faces that can give me some tips and hints. P.S. I
live in Tacoma Washington so if anyone has a nice place shop please
share. (I usally hit up my local Asian food market)

Thanks,
Katie

Messages in this topic (1)
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