[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11936

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Vet wants a low protein diet
From: chaparraltrail
1b. Re: Vet wants a low protein diet
From: Sandee Lee
1c. Re: Vet wants a low protein diet
From: cooniefish@aol.com
1d. Re: Vet wants a low protein diet
From: chaparraltrail
1e. Re: Vet wants a low protein diet
From: cooniefish@aol.com
1f. Re: Vet wants a low protein diet
From: Sandee Lee
1g. Re: Vet wants a low protein diet
From: cmhausrath
1h. Re: Vet wants a low protein diet
From: cooniefish@aol.com

2a. Re: Need reassurance
From: cmhausrath

3a. Re: How do I go about buying Raw
From: cmhausrath
3b. Re: How do I go about buying Raw
From: costrowski75

4a. Re: pork country style ribs (was: shopping the ads)
From: Laurie Swanson

5a. Back to raw
From: Giselle
5b. Re: Back to raw
From: Halo Harris

6a. If it's not one thing, it's another!
From: Sonja
6b. Re: If it's not one thing, it's another!
From: Giselle

7a. New to Group and Raw-Feeding Experience
From: Peggy
7b. Re: New to Group and Raw-Feeding Experience
From: Sandee Lee

8a. Re: Stinky chicken
From: Ivette Casiano

9a. Re: Duck and organ question
From: Yasuko herron

10. Do I trust the dog? Was: Vet wants low protein diet
From: cooniefish@aol.com

11a. Re: losing hair
From: scarebetty
11b. Re: losing hair
From: Giselle

12a. Re: Switching to raw and.....
From: costrowski75
12b. Re: Switching to raw and.....
From: Giselle

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Re: Vet wants a low protein diet
Posted by: "chaparraltrail" chaparraltrail@yahoo.com chaparraltrail
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2007 3:24 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, cooniefish@... wrote:
> You may need to reduce the fat content, but other than that, for the
> health of your pet, by all means continue your raw diet.
>
> BTW, raw is high moisture, not high protein.
>
> Sandee & the Dane Gang

If you reduce the fat, hypothetically to zero, what is left, other
than protein and a small amount of carbohydrate in the organ meats?

A raw fed dog needs less drinking water than kibble fed, because of
the moisture in the meat. This has nothing to do with the percentage
of nutrients derived from protein, fat, etc.

Lori

Messages in this topic (18)
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1b. Re: Vet wants a low protein diet
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2007 3:59 pm ((PDT))

Reduced protein is not appropriate for renal disease, not in humans or dogs.
But we are discussing liver failure, not renal failure.

Both of these issues have been discussed frequently on this list by
competent professionals sighting up to date studies.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "chaparraltrail" <chaparraltrail@yahoo.com>

This is an instance where you really need to talk
to a competent professional. Renal disease can be deadly, and
certainly for a human, reduced protein, and even reduced liquid, is
appropriate.

Messages in this topic (18)
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1c. Re: Vet wants a low protein diet
Posted by: "cooniefish@aol.com" cooniefish@aol.com luckypuppy197136
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2007 4:44 pm ((PDT))

Does anyone know a good vet? Maybe one that will do a phone consult?

Thanks

Samantha


In a message dated 8/21/2007 5:22:09 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
chaparraltrail@yahoo.com writes:

I just hope that, somehow, you cross paths with a competent vet who
also strongly supports raw feeding. That's where I think you will
find the best answers.

Lori
~who wishes the best for you and your dog

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

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Messages in this topic (18)
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1d. Re: Vet wants a low protein diet
Posted by: "chaparraltrail" chaparraltrail@yahoo.com chaparraltrail
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2007 4:45 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee Lee" <rlee@...> wrote:
> But we are discussing liver failure, not renal failure.
>

Yes, I realized after posting. The guide dog we raised died at 8 from
kidney failure, and I subsituted, thinking of him. (Also case-in-point
at my own expense why posts on a list do not substitute for medical
advice.)

> Both of these issues have been discussed frequently on this list by
> competent professionals sighting up to date studies.

But those professionals are not the ones treating the dog. They will
not be able to give case-specific medical advice. Meanwhile, if the
treating vet is firmly against feeding raw, or unfamiliar with raw, he
will not be able to advise in this very important health matter.

Not all places have raw-friendly vets to choose from, and that is the
real problem here, IMO.

Lori

Messages in this topic (18)
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1e. Re: Vet wants a low protein diet
Posted by: "cooniefish@aol.com" cooniefish@aol.com luckypuppy197136
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2007 4:46 pm ((PDT))

Could you please let me know how I would go about finding these past
discussions? What keyword would I use? Is there a file?

Thanks
Samantha


In a message dated 8/21/2007 6:00:45 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
rlee@plix.com writes:

Reduced protein is not appropriate for renal disease, not in humans or dogs.
But we are discussing liver failure, not renal failure.

Both of these issues have been discussed frequently on this list by
competent professionals sighting up to date studies.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (18)
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1f. Re: Vet wants a low protein diet
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2007 4:55 pm ((PDT))

Samantha,

If you are receiving individual emails, just scroll down to the bottom of
any message and click on "messages". Then do a search on liver disease.

Otherwise, go to the list homepage, click on messages and do the same thing.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: <cooniefish@aol.com>

>
> Could you please let me know how I would go about finding these past
> discussions? What keyword would I use? Is there a file?

Messages in this topic (18)
________________________________________________________________________

1g. Re: Vet wants a low protein diet
Posted by: "cmhausrath" cmhausrath@yahoo.com cmhausrath
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2007 5:03 pm ((PDT))

cooniefish@... wrote:

> Could you please let me know how I would go about finding these past
> discussions? What keyword would I use? Is there a file?

Okay, first, you have to be reading messages on the website to search
the archives. (But they're there, and they go back something like
130,000 messages by now.) Go to

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/messages

Once you're there, you'll see a search box at the top. You can use
that, as is, and can search for specific words (like "renal"
or "protein") or combinations of words ("low protein" in quotes will
get that phrase, or you can do "protein & kidney" to find messages with
both words).

Better yet, you can click on the "advanced" link next to the search
box, and can look for messages within a date range, or by a certain
author. The search word function works the same on the advanced search.

Happy hunting!

-- sandy & griffin

Messages in this topic (18)
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1h. Re: Vet wants a low protein diet
Posted by: "cooniefish@aol.com" cooniefish@aol.com luckypuppy197136
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2007 5:57 pm ((PDT))

thank you! Reading now!

Samantha


In a message dated 8/21/2007 7:04:22 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
cmhausrath@yahoo.com writes:

Okay, first, you have to be reading messages on the website to search
the archives. (But they're there, and they go back something like
130,000 messages by now.) Go to
_http://groups.http://grohttp://groups.(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/messages)

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (18)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

2a. Re: Need reassurance
Posted by: "cmhausrath" cmhausrath@yahoo.com cmhausrath
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2007 3:31 pm ((PDT))

"Brandi Bryant" <bbryant573@...> wrote:

> I noticed that they had packaged a whole chicken
> already cut up so I got all of them I could - got more thighs and
drumstick

I know you've gotten lots of advice, so I'm just backtracking to
comment on a couple of your purchases. When your money has
absolutely got to go just as far as you can make it go, you probably
can't afford either to be driving around to different stores or to be
buying products that have been pre-chopped for you. I *always* find
that a whole chicken is cheaper than a "whole" cut up chicken, and
it's usually also cheaper than any of the component parts like thighs
& drumsticks. So call different stores first -- unless you're going
to where you usually shop to buy all your people-food as well -- to
find out who's got the best deal on, say, just whole chickens.
Variety doesn't need to be a concern yet -- just price a couple
things, find out what's most affordable, and go with that.

> Well, I ran out of meat and payday wasn't here yet, so
> there were a coupld of days that they didn't get anything.

If it were me, just starting out with raw, I'd rather feed less every
day than not feed at all for several days. JMO.

> I got several whole chickens, I got several cornish hens

Again, cornish hens aren't going to be in your budget, most likely.
Remember to watch the price per pound very closely!! Those little
things look inexpensive, relatively, but they're tiny. Your dollars
will go a lot farther with just straight chicken. (Or turkey, or
pork -- those three tend to stay pretty inexpensive, year-round.)

> and some ground Turkey - and I thought if they were doing good
> with that I could start out with some pork so I got some pork loin
top loin
> boneless, and some Pork Shoulder Blade.

Again, ground meats aren't usually the cheapest. Pork loin, too,
tends toward high-end -- look instead for pork shoulders (sometimes
called picnics, or fresh hams, or butt roasts) or blade roasts.

Variety, really, can wait until your financial situation frees up a
little. Feeding a consistent, but limited, raw diet is MUCH better
than feeding on-again-off-again raw, or not being able to feed as
much as your dogs need.

Feeding raw CAN, most definitely, be done on a budget. You'll have
to work harder, both in sourcing where to buy and in "prep," such as
it is (cutting up chickens instead of buying pre-cut), but it can be
done. Good luck!

-- sandy & griffin

Messages in this topic (11)
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3a. Re: How do I go about buying Raw
Posted by: "cmhausrath" cmhausrath@yahoo.com cmhausrath
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2007 3:36 pm ((PDT))

"ive_anbio10" <ive_anbio10@...> wrote:

> Anyone have any suggestions about odd
> smelling meat? To feed or not to feed is my question?

My dog LOVES stinky meat. The older, the better, as far as he's
concerned. I buy once a week, and leave a full week's worth of food in
the fridge, so that plenty of it will have gone overdate & gotten good
& stinky by the time I feed it. I have fed stuff that I couldn't bear
to stay in the kitchen with, but Griff just chomps it down with a big
doggy grin on his face.

I do NOT accept kisses after gross meals, though. Blech.

-- sandy & griffin (but mom, it's delicious that way!)

Messages in this topic (14)
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3b. Re: How do I go about buying Raw
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2007 5:46 pm ((PDT))

"Olga" <olga.drozd@...> wrote:
>
> It's good to be back.
*****
Hoky smoke, Olga, I figured you lost and gone forever. Where ya been?
Chris O

Messages in this topic (14)
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4a. Re: pork country style ribs (was: shopping the ads)
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2007 3:38 pm ((PDT))

Hi Lynda,

Those are good if you de-bone them. The bones are too small for most
dogs, and cut into sharp, pointy pieces--could be a choking/poking
hazard. :-)

Great to hear your dogs are doing well!

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "lhmcmaken" <lhmcmaken@...> wrote:
i see where i can get country style ribs pork shoulder for
> a buck a pound. that is a good price. is that something i want to
> buy for my two danes?

Messages in this topic (3)
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5a. Back to raw
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2007 3:50 pm ((PDT))

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloat
TC
Giselle

> <<...Now with this gastric torsion...>>
>
> What is a gastric torsion?
>
>
> Ivette Casiano
> "Live for today, plan for tomorrow"

Messages in this topic (5)
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5b. Re: Back to raw
Posted by: "Halo Harris" h.halo@yahoo.com h.halo
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2007 4:44 pm ((PDT))

Gastric torsion is another name for bloat.
Halo

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Messages in this topic (5)
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6a. If it's not one thing, it's another!
Posted by: "Sonja" ladyver@sbcglobal.net lonepalm77
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2007 4:44 pm ((PDT))

So far the only protein we've been able to feed Kodie is turkey. We've tried chicken and lamb and had severe reactions to both. She seems to be OK with fish oil caps. Since turkey organs are hard to come by, she's been getting insufficient amounts of organ meat since May. Since I know she NEEDS organs, I fed her chicken liver last week, and now we're dealing with more flare ups. I usually like to wait for these flare-ups to subside before throwing a new protein at her. Once her current issue heals a little, I have duck and beef ready to go (will probably try the duck first). Next month I'm breaking down and buying a 40lbs case of turkey liver since I can't find it in smaller amounts....(until November!!).

Now for the kicker....about 2 years ago Kodie had surgery for elbow dysplasia. In the past year, she's been pulling up her leg and screaming as if she stepped on a bee. It happened maybe twice prior to raw. Now, she's doing it consistently, but the bizarre thing is that it comes on as quickly as it goes. There's never a limp...either she's three legging it or walking around like nothing happened. Sometimes it lasts a minute, sometimes it lasts a day. We took her to the specialist who did the surgery, and all tests and x-rays were fine. My husband is thinking it's something that I am or am not feeding her (but he's also willing to accept that it's just coincidence). I just need to know if anyone else had ever experienced this with their dog (raw fed or not...) and how should I handle the lack-of-organs issue? Is it better to feed chicken liver and have her react to it or is it better to wait until I can find something she tolerates?

We HAVE seen positive things come out of raw feeding....she's licking her paws less when we don't feed her chicken or lamb, her teeth went from a dull yellow to a gleaming white, her breath doesn't knock you dead anymore, and overall she seems better.

Sonja

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
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6b. Re: If it's not one thing, it's another!
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2007 5:00 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Sonja!
Sounds like an intermittent nerve pinch to me. I've had a
lower back disc problem since my early 20s and if I turn a certain way
carelessly, especially while carrying something in one hand as opposed
to with both hands balanced in front of me, I will get a quick flash
of pain down my left leg. It only happens occasionally and quickly,
happens and is gone in a second.

Have you considered pork? Pork bones are pretty soft, its easy to
feed, and usually pretty cheap. You can get organs, too. Heart,
kidney, liver, spleen, sweet breads.
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> So far the only protein we've been able to feed Kodie is turkey.
We've tried chicken and lamb and had severe reactions to both. She
seems to be OK with fish oil caps. Since turkey organs are hard to
come by, she's been getting insufficient amounts of organ meat since
May. Since I know she NEEDS organs, I fed her chicken liver last week,
and now we're dealing with more flare ups. I usually like to wait for
these flare-ups to subside before throwing a new protein at her. Once
her current issue heals a little, I have duck and beef ready to go
(will probably try the duck first). Next month I'm breaking down and
buying a 40lbs case of turkey liver since I can't find it in smaller
amounts....(until November!!).
>
> Now for the kicker....about 2 years ago Kodie had surgery for elbow
dysplasia. In the past year, she's been pulling up her leg and
screaming as if she stepped on a bee. It happened maybe twice prior to
raw. Now, she's doing it consistently, but the bizarre thing is that
it comes on as quickly as it goes. There's never a limp...either she's
three legging it or walking around like nothing happened. Sometimes it
lasts a minute, sometimes it lasts a day. We took her to the
specialist who did the surgery, and all tests and x-rays were fine. My
husband is thinking it's something that I am or am not feeding her
(but he's also willing to accept that it's just coincidence). I just
need to know if anyone else had ever experienced this with their dog
(raw fed or not...) and how should I handle the lack-of-organs issue?
Is it better to feed chicken liver and have her react to it or is it
better to wait until I can find something she tolerates?
>
> We HAVE seen positive things come out of raw feeding....she's
licking her paws less when we don't feed her chicken or lamb, her
teeth went from a dull yellow to a gleaming white, her breath doesn't
knock you dead anymore, and overall she seems better.
>
>
> Sonja
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Messages in this topic (2)
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7a. New to Group and Raw-Feeding Experience
Posted by: "Peggy" peggy070605@sbcglobal.net speakingforfurry
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2007 4:46 pm ((PDT))

Hi! My name is Peg, I have 2 dogs. Chuy is a 7 m/o Lab/Pit male, and
Bella is a 4 m/o Min-Pin/Chi female. Chuy weighs roughly 60lbs, and
Bella weighs almost 6. I started both of them on raw food today. But
now I'm questioning if that was wrong, because there was no transition?
Nothing has happened, I gave them chicken legs and backs, and Chuy also
got a Turkey Drumstick. In the PM, I gave them ground beef. They
reacted good to it so far. Also, I heard that the first week, you
should only give puppies meat, no veggies. Is that true? (Day 1 was all
meat, but what about the other 6 upcoming days?) And, I have a recipe
that calls for I think it's 2tsp. of Vitamin-C powder to mix in
w/veggies among other ingredients. Is it okay to just grind-up Vit-C
tablets? How many do I give them? They're 500 MG each. I read on a
website that it's okay, but I want to make sure before I do that. Any
extra info you guys can provide would be most helpful and
appreciated!!! Also, did anyone else feel as if they were going to
vomit the first time they fed their dogs raw food? I felt so grossed
out, eck. My hubby was just fine with it , but not me. Ew. Maybe it'll
be better tomorrow. =)

Messages in this topic (2)
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7b. Re: New to Group and Raw-Feeding Experience
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2007 5:05 pm ((PDT))

Peg,

What do you mean there was no transition?

You may run into problems by feeding too much variety too quickly. Best to
feed one protein source for a week or so until they adjust. Most people
begin with chicken as it is economical, easy to digest and readily
available.

You don't need any recipes or veggies ever.....supplements only when
necessary. Just concentrate on the required foods of meat (lots of it), a
little bone and organs.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Peggy" <peggy070605@sbcglobal.net>

Hi! My name is Peg, I have 2 dogs. Chuy is a 7 m/o Lab/Pit male, and
Bella is a 4 m/o Min-Pin/Chi female. Chuy weighs roughly 60lbs, and
Bella weighs almost 6. I started both of them on raw food today. But
now I'm questioning if that was wrong, because there was no transition?
Nothing has happened, I gave them chicken legs and backs, and Chuy also
got a Turkey Drumstick. In the PM, I gave them ground beef. They
reacted good to it so far. Also, I heard that the first week, you
should only give puppies meat, no veggies. Is that true? (Day 1 was all
meat, but what about the other 6 upcoming days?) And, I have a recipe
that calls for I think it's 2tsp. of Vitamin-C powder to mix in
w/veggies among other ingredients.

Messages in this topic (2)
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8a. Re: Stinky chicken
Posted by: "Ivette Casiano" ivettecasiano@yahoo.com ivettecasiano
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2007 4:46 pm ((PDT))

<<...I'd try it once to see if the dog can tolerate it. ..>>

I still have some of that stinky chicken in the freezer. Someone said I should get him back to normal then try it again to see if it really was that chicken.
I agree about the buried food in the wild, can't smell nice and they still eat it but we don't know if they have cannon butt after that either. They're in the wild, they can do that there and not have their masters turn their noses up at it.

Ivette Casiano
"Live for today, plan for tomorrow"

---------------------------------
Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (8)
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9a. Re: Duck and organ question
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2007 4:46 pm ((PDT))

>BTW -where do you find meat like elk?

Hi,glad to hear my advise helped you even a bit. Well,elk is bigger deer than Denver Deer I hear and, I got it from Colorado.It was very expensive shipping cost,but it was worth it.

www.elkusa.com

It is a small farm in CO and, their animals are grain-fed (I am bit compromise on this) but ,they carry Goat,Buffalo,Denver deer,and Elk.

Some of my Goat and Elk and Buffalo are from them.

I plan to buy from them maybe once a year or two to stock up.

> I have yet to find sources for venison and rabbit. The only rabbits I found were at Lunardi's >$7.99 per pound!

I think Venison are same to Elk. am I wrong? As for rabbit,I got $3/lb from pepspoultry in PA,but I don't like the way of his business although products quality is quite good,and this guy still have my pending order for 2 months or more.I gave up (lucky for me hedid not hold my money yet.)and,I am not going to order anything from him any more.

But,if you want rabbit,Hare today gone tomorrow (was it right?) in PA carry good selection of rabbit. It just that it seems one of those things that dog likes it or hate it. My dog.. she ate it,but had hard time finishing off each time.You may want to see if you want to take a risk or not.

Duck I got was from Super Giant,normal store.But I was bit shocked to find that Shoppers carried same brand Duck almost half the price!! I think if you go to Asian store,you are getting it cheaper than other American grocery store,I think.

I kind of write out on paper waht I like to feed when I started this feeding.and I stocked up freezer full.

so,I don't go shopping for my dog all the time.I decided to order needed thing maybe 1 time in 6 month to a year or maybe two.

So,I did not finish up chicken I got and still sitting in the freezer,still lamb in frezer etc..

I kind of decided myself how and what to feed.

Like.. if i decided feeding Chicken,Beef,pork only for example.I stock up all I need for that protins. Then,I introduce chicken and to Beef and to Pork and this is round 1.
And then,I go back to chicken again after 3 protin feeding so,I don't finish chicken all at once.

This is just me.

yassy

---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (9)
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10. Do I trust the dog? Was: Vet wants low protein diet
Posted by: "cooniefish@aol.com" cooniefish@aol.com luckypuppy197136
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2007 5:58 pm ((PDT))

From what I am reading, dogs with liver disease should not be eating red
meat...BUT one of the first things I noticed with this dog (who eats like a lab)
was that she suddenly no longer wanted chicken at all! ut she was crazy for
beef. I tend to want to trust the dog's cravings despite the advice to the
contrary.....

Thanks
samantha



In a message dated 8/21/2007 7:04:22 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
cmhausrath@yahoo.com writes:

Okay, first, you have to be reading messages on the website to search
the archives. (But they're there, and they go back something like
130,000 messages by now.) Go to
_http://groups.http://grohttp://groups.(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/messages)

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

11a. Re: losing hair
Posted by: "scarebetty" scarebetty@yahoo.com scarebetty
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2007 5:58 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "scarebetty" <scarebetty@...> wrote:
>
> I switched my female to raw when she was about a month into her
> pregnancy. She made the change with very little problem. Her pups
> are now 5 weeks old, so she has been on raw for about 4 months now.
> She is shedding a lot, not just individual hairs, but clumps in a
> couple of spots. Along with the shedding she also has a lot of
> dander. Where the hair is coming out in clumps, there is a scaling
> that I would call exema. I feed her a lot of chicken, some pork, very
> little beef. I'm trying to figure out if the hair loss is due to her
> hormone changes-but dont think that the dermatitis could be due to
> that. Just not sure as to what is causing it. Maybe a chicken
> allergy? She doesnt scratch much. Maybe someone can help me. She
> had a beautiful coat before I switched her-not saying that the raw
> isnt good for her, I know it is, just wonder what to do.
> Betty
>
Just wanted to update on Lucy's condition- She is doing great now!
I wanted to thank Giselle and Pamela for their replies. I think both
posts helped. I bathed her and have been brushing her although not a
lot anymore. She is still losing hair, but it is her gray undercoat
and most of it is gone. I am not giving her as much chicken - have
spread out on protein sources. Anyway, her coat was always pretty,
but the new coat is absolutely beautiful. Should speak well for her
raw diet. Her pups have done wonderful on the raw. At first it was a
little scary, but they have handled everything just fine.

Thanks again for the help,
Betty

Messages in this topic (11)
________________________________________________________________________

11b. Re: losing hair
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2007 6:09 pm ((PDT))

Pictures, we want pictures!!!!!
; )
YQW, Betty!
Wait until her winter coat comes in : )
Thanks very much for the update.
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> Just wanted to update on Lucy's condition- She is doing great now!
> I wanted to thank Giselle and Pamela for their replies. I think both
> posts helped. I bathed her and have been brushing her although not a
> lot anymore. She is still losing hair, but it is her gray undercoat
> and most of it is gone. I am not giving her as much chicken - have
> spread out on protein sources. Anyway, her coat was always pretty,
> but the new coat is absolutely beautiful. Should speak well for her
> raw diet. Her pups have done wonderful on the raw. At first it was a
> little scary, but they have handled everything just fine.
>
> Thanks again for the help,
> Betty
>

Messages in this topic (11)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

12a. Re: Switching to raw and.....
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2007 6:01 pm ((PDT))

"chaparraltrail" <chaparraltrail@...> wrote:
>> Nobody is blaming the dog.
*****
Baloney they're not.
Every time a person quits feeding raw because the dog couldn't handle
the blame is conveniently, guiltlessly laid on the dog. Oh gosh, the
human did everything the human could but heck, the dog just didn't
respond.

I would argue the human didn't do everything.

Now, I would also agree that the human truly believes no more could be
done; or could be if the dominoes had fallen a different way, or that
extenuating circumstances did not permit a particular action to occur
(which is what I meant when I said life doesn't always go where we want
it to go).

The question was whether all dogs should be fed raw. I absolutely say
yes they should. The extent to which "should" happens is something
else entirely though, and I've no doubt that everyone who doesn't feed
raw has ample justification why not.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________

12b. Re: Switching to raw and.....
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2007 6:13 pm ((PDT))

Amen and Hallelujah, sister!
G

> *****
> Baloney they're not.
> Every time a person quits feeding raw because the dog couldn't handle it
> the blame is conveniently, guiltlessly laid on the dog. Oh gosh, the
> human did everything the human could but heck, the dog just didn't
> respond.
>
> I would argue the human didn't do everything.
>
> Now, I would also agree that the human truly believes no more could be
> done; or could be if the dominoes had fallen a different way, or that
> extenuating circumstances did not permit a particular action to occur
> (which is what I meant when I said life doesn't always go where we want
> it to go).
>
> The question was whether all dogs should be fed raw. I absolutely say
> yes they should. The extent to which "should" happens is something
> else entirely though, and I've no doubt that everyone who doesn't feed
> raw has ample justification why not.
> Chris O
>

Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

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