[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11929

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: prey blood
From: Jacinta Loo
1b. Re: prey blood
From: Casey Post
1c. prey blood
From: costrowski75
1d. Re: prey blood
From: costrowski75

2a. Re: need more bone
From: verrelli

3a. Re: chicken backs question
From: costrowski75

4a. Re: Brought home my first foster - How do I get him back in shape?
From: costrowski75
4b. Re: Brought home my first foster - How do I get him back in shape?
From: Giselle
4c. Re: Brought home my first foster - How do I get him back in shape?
From: tottime47

5a. Re: pork neck bones
From: BJ Swansfeger

6a. Re: rawfeeding cats?
From: Giselle
6b. Re: rawfeeding cats?
From: costrowski75
6c. Re: rawfeeding cats?
From: Casey Post

7a. Re: Test
From: costrowski75
7b. Re: Test
From: Giselle
7c. Re: Test
From: Casey Post

8a. Re: forgot on my last message
From: Giselle
8b. Re: forgot on my last message
From: costrowski75

9a. Re: need advice about starting pup back on raw
From: nat_franc

10a. Re: diarrhea, concerned/frustrated newbie
From: Giselle

11a. Re: treats for raw diet?
From: Giselle

12a. Re: Iodine requirments
From: Yasuko herron
12b. Re: Iodine requirments
From: costrowski75

13a. Re: begining
From: Casey Post

14a. Re: Food percentages
From: costrowski75

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Re: prey blood
Posted by: "Jacinta Loo" jacintaloo@gmail.com junglemonkey718
Date: Mon Aug 20, 2007 7:14 am ((PDT))

Uh, don't buy the jellied blood. It's salty, that congealed blood
from the Asian market. How do I know? I'm of Chinese descent; my
momma used to like eating a noodle dish that featured congealed
pork's blood with a bunch of entrails and stuff. :)

Jacinta

On Aug 18, 2007, at 7:58 PM, costrowski75 wrote:

> Loretta Luja <luja@...> wrote:
> >
> > I saw tubs of "pork blood" at the market that got me
> > thinking. Have any of you thought of the blood that
> > is missing when fed prey to your dog?
> *****Perhaps buying some jellied blood
> is an answer.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________

1b. Re: prey blood
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Mon Aug 20, 2007 7:46 am ((PDT))

> I had always understood that the blood made up a considerable portion
> of their calcium intake, so I too am very interested in any information
> about this!

Michelle,

Nope. About 1% of the body's calcium is present in the blood at any given
time - the vast majority of calcium is in the bones, nature's calcium
storehouse.

Blood is not a vital part of the diet, but if you can get it raw and feed
it, by all means go ahead.

Casey

Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________

1c. prey blood
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Aug 20, 2007 8:21 am ((PDT))

siamesekittens4u@... wrote:
>
> I have started raising rabbits for my dogs. My son bops them, and
they are
> fed whole to my dogs, not bled out. They eat the whole animal,
insides, blood
> and all.
*****
Although I let someone else do the raising, the rest I do as you do.
No point at all to bleeding them out.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________

1d. Re: prey blood
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Aug 20, 2007 10:24 am ((PDT))

"Giselle" <megan.giselle@...> wrote:
>> I don't see any reason why you can't add tubs o' blood to your dog's
> diet to enhance it, if you can get it. A thought, wouldn't feeding
> spleen serve the same purpose, maybe?
*****
You bet it would!
Beef spleen really is a bag o' blood, just sort of flattish.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

2a. Re: need more bone
Posted by: "verrelli" ktverrelli@bellsouth.net verrelli
Date: Mon Aug 20, 2007 7:30 am ((PDT))

well I am new but I was reading that backs were better (probably
because bigger dogs can gulp the necks) but my guys (even my big one)
chew so I was thinking maybe they are not that bad - I know they are
mostly just bone
Kellie
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, outcats4@... wrote:
> I missed something, why are chicken necks not good ?

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

3a. Re: chicken backs question
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Aug 20, 2007 7:47 am ((PDT))

"Susan DeLeon" <labonita_persians@...> wrote:
>
> Are chicken backs and chicken frames the same thing? If so, do
chicken
> backs have more meat?
*****
Generally speaking, "frame" is a term not widely used in the US,
which may be why so few people can make sense of it. A chicken frame
is the skeleton stripped as completely as possible (usually
mechanically) of meat. The wings, legs, neck, tail and head would be
gone as well.

Backs have more meat than frames sort of like how San Francisco has
more snow than Los Angeles. I would count on neither as an adequate
source of meat but both can be fed with plenty of boneless meat.

Unless you plan to grind your dog's food (oh please don't), searching
for frames is not worth your effort.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

4a. Re: Brought home my first foster - How do I get him back in shape?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Aug 20, 2007 8:07 am ((PDT))

"kaebruney" <kaebruney@...> wrote:
> I was wondering what you guys would recommend for a big dog who
needs
> to gain about 10lbs and has really dull coat. I mean, besides the
> regular chicken, beef hearts, liver, kidney, sweetbreads.
>
> Anything I should look to include? I do give the dogs eggs once or
> twice a week, but so far no one will take fish.
>
*****
"The regular" stuff you describe would not necessarily be
appropriate. Chicken and its component parts are a good enough place
to start but sweetbreads can wait oh a long time before they need to
be included on your shopping list. The foods you list pretty much
comprise the basic no frills, strangulation budget menu. Not wrong,
just not optimal.

So. Buy a buncha whole chickens. Offer them whole or hack them up
and offer them in pieces. You can feed the liver/heart/gizzards with
the chicken parts or you can save them up to feed later. I make a
point of including BITS and PIECES of them when I am starting a new
dogs, sneaking them in if necessary. They're there, you should feed
them. You may want to trim the fat/skin at first if you are concerned
about loose stools (which are not necessarily a sign of either
disease or bad food), but you can start out feeding fat/skin if you
want, then back off if you need to.

Beef heart is fine; buy it untrimmed if you can and feed the fat as
well as the flesh. Trimmed out, it's awfully lean. Also consider
cheap beef like chuck or brisket or cheek (if you can find it) and
whatever other beef scores you happen upon. And feed the fat.

Pork is a fine protein choice as well. Cheap, available, lots of
fat. The bones are invariably edible. Pork heart, liver, kidney and
spleen are usually cheaper than beef.

Down the pike a bit, lamb is another great fatty food, albeit more
expensive. Good bones as well.

Eggs are good for calories; they're just plain old good. Fish is no
big deal. Try it once in a while to see if opinions have changed but
don't take it personally if your dogs never accept it. If you are
positively bursting to feed fish, feed canned salmon or mackerel and
get it out of your system.

Consider giving him a good fish body oil supplement, starting right
now. Look for a per dose combined DHA/EPA total of 300mg, try to
avoid soy and beware of the new combination products that offer O3,
O6 and O9. Our dogs (ourselves) need ONLY the O3. The others are
dealt with more than adequately by our regular diet.

As your foster gains experience, feed him more, feed him more fat.
You cannot rush along weight gain. You will, however, be able to
change the stink and yellow teeth fairly quickly. His coat will
change as his nutrition improves.

I'm a big fan of American Bulldogs. How fortunate he is to have
hooked up with you. Good luck.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________

4b. Re: Brought home my first foster - How do I get him back in shape?
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Mon Aug 20, 2007 8:24 am ((PDT))

Hi, Kae!
Petey's a happy and handsome boy! If the pics posted represent
Petey's condition right now, I don't think he needs to gain any weight
at all, let alone 10 more pounds! Better nutrition surely, but not
added weight. Raw feeding should give him a sleeker look and show more
muscle definition.
His legs may look a little short to you, but I paged through a bunch
of pics on Google Images, and there seems to be a definite line of
AmBulls that have comparatively shorter legs, along with a very broad
but shallow forechest:
http://images.google.com/images?q=american+bulldog&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&sa=N&tab=wi

http://tinyurl.com/3cmph7
He may not be completely mature, but surely has reached his full
height and bone length, imo.
You can add pork to his diet; large hunks of pork shoulder and fresh
hams. How about turkey? Beef or lamb ribs, pork neck bones, too. You
can feed some chicken hearts and gizzards as meatymeat, and chicken
feet for snacks. Salmon or Fish Body Oil would be a good addition for
a dull coat. Some dogs go through a full, prolonged shed after
switching to raw, but he's short coated so that shouldn't be too too
hard to deal with.
Keep us posted with updates!
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> hey everyone!
>
> I've just become a new foster mommy and am so excited to be giving a
> dog a new lease on love and a fur-ever home!
>
> I am caring for an AmBull male, about 65lbs. he's supposedly 2yrs, but
> his legs seems a little short to me (like he's still developing).
> Maybe it was poor nutrition during his youth. ~ here's a link to his
> picture here so you can see him:
> http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=8844297 ~
>
> Anyway, he's a little stinky, a little skinny and has yellowing teeth.
> A PERFECT raw candidate!! *big smiles*
>
> I was wondering what you guys would recommend for a big dog who needs
> to gain about 10lbs and has really dull coat. I mean, besides the
> regular chicken, beef hearts, liver, kidney, sweetbreads.
>
> Anything I should look to include? I do give the dogs eggs once or
> twice a week, but so far no one will take fish.
>
> thanks for the advice!
>
> Kae
>

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________

4c. Re: Brought home my first foster - How do I get him back in shape?
Posted by: "tottime47" tottime@aol.com tottime47
Date: Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:58 am ((PDT))

Hi Kae,

Petey is one cute guy! Lucky that you found each other!

I brought home a little throw away on July 7th! Moli was on
candida (sp) and so skinny that you could feel every bone in her
body......Their explaination was she was a self feeder and only
ate a piece of k***ble at a time, eating all day long......nasty
stuff, no wonder she only ate a piece at a time.....enough to keep
her alive till she got some real food!

Long story short, this morning hubby said I have to cut her back on
food as she's starting to put on too much weight, lol. How'd I do it?
Just feeding her mostly meat, meat and more meat! If you follow the
recomendations on here and feed mostly meat 10 % bone and 10% organs,
you will put on all the weight you want.....

What do I feed? Everything that walks, runs or flys, except humans,
that I can get my hands on and can afford , hahahaha.

Beef, pork, buffalo, lamb, duck, rabbit, goat, turkey,fish, tripe,
eggs, salmon oil, etc.

If I buy something with too much bone in it, I just cut the
meat off the bone and feed.....

You can tell if he needs more or less bone by his stools...
Hard - white = less bone
Soft - pudding = more bone

Hope this helps, good luck!

Carol, Charkee & Moli (who's now looking buff too!)

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "kaebruney" <kaebruney@...> wrote:

> I've just become a new foster mommy and am so excited to be giving a
> dog a new lease on love and a fur-ever home!
> Kae

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

5a. Re: pork neck bones
Posted by: "BJ Swansfeger" akei1@netsync.net tseiko1
Date: Mon Aug 20, 2007 8:20 am ((PDT))

I just bought some myself to feed to Siberians-3 years old and 5 months
old. Are they OK if I add extra meat with them? Thanks.
BJ Swansfeger
www.Amaroksiberians.com
Bj ~ Tseiko, Suka, Isis, Kaho & T'Kaya

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (22)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

6a. Re: rawfeeding cats?
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Mon Aug 20, 2007 8:21 am ((PDT))

Hi, Becky!
Yes, there is! http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawcat/
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> Is there a sister site regarding rawfeeding cats? Becky
>

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________

6b. Re: rawfeeding cats?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Aug 20, 2007 8:27 am ((PDT))

"Becky Brooks (Marsh)" <kidcreations1@...> wrote:
>
> Is there a sister site regarding rawfeeding cats?
*****
Group Email Addresses
Post message: rawcat@yahoogroups.com
Subscribe: rawcat-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Unsubscribe: rawcat-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
List owner: rawcat-owner@yahoogroups.com

Chris O

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________

6c. Re: rawfeeding cats?
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Mon Aug 20, 2007 10:11 am ((PDT))

> Is there a sister site regarding rawfeeding cats?

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawcat/

Also www.rawfedcats.org for great info!

Casey

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

7a. Re: Test
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Aug 20, 2007 8:26 am ((PDT))

"Brandi Bryant" <bbryant573@...> wrote:
>> Just wanted to know what was up, or if it was just me!
*****
Weren't you. Yahoo in its mysterious ways screwed up. It appears to
be unscrewed now.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________

7b. Re: Test
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Mon Aug 20, 2007 8:31 am ((PDT))

Hi, Brandi!
Yahoo has been having an aneurysm, a lot of group's mail
were affected.
I expect that the mods are inundated with backlogs of mail to sort an
pass on to the list, especially on this list.
Wait a bit, is my advice.
TC
Giselle

> I've sent in a couple of emails - one I think subject Website and
one today
> that was subject: Need assurance
>
> I haven't seen them come through and just wondered if maybe I was doing
> something wrong and the moderators weren't allowing to be seen by
the list,
> but I would be getting an email from them telling me what was wrong
with my
> post wouldn't I? Or if the moderators were just slammed with posts.
>
> Just wanted to know what was up, or if it was just me!
>
> --
> Brandi
> Bartlesville, Ok
> www.obediencetrainingclubofbartlesville.com

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________

7c. Re: Test
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Mon Aug 20, 2007 10:13 am ((PDT))

> I've sent in a couple of emails - one I think subject Website and one
> today
> that was subject: Need assurance

Brandi,

Try resending - yahoogroups is notorious for eating emails. Happens more
often than they'd like to admit.

Casey

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

8a. Re: forgot on my last message
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Mon Aug 20, 2007 8:32 am ((PDT))

Hi, Rachael!
When posting an addition to a post, try to go to that
message and reply to it. Otherwise, they're both stand alone messages
- and I'm not sure what, exactly, you're referring to without
searching out your other message and reading it before replying to
this one.
I'm reading through the backlog of posts, so I expect I'll come across
it soon. : )
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> that cooking bones is a no-no. If I take those out, cook the rest,
> and give the bones separately will it be ok?
>
> Rachel M.
>

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

8b. Re: forgot on my last message
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Aug 20, 2007 8:40 am ((PDT))

"equusray" <equusray@...> wrote:
>
> that cooking bones is a no-no. If I take those out, cook the rest,
> and give the bones separately will it be ok?
*****
The rawfeeding list does not support or endorse cooked food. Feed
the meat on the bones and feed them both quite raw. Feed meaty
bones, meat, and organs: raw.

If your parents are against raw and you cannot persuade them
otherwise and you are not in a position to make your own household,
then you're not likley to be able to feed raw, at least now. Which
is a bummer but there you go.

There are many groups that can help you with recipes and calculations
and all the other issues involved with cooked menus. You may want to
investigate them.

I think it's a grand idea to get your dogs off commercial food. If
you have to cook now perhaps you can--simultaneously--continue
reading and learning about proper raw diets. You'll be able to move
from cooked to raw the MOMENT the opportunity is upon you. So go
where you need to go to learn to cook for your dogs, but stick around
here too.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

9a. Re: need advice about starting pup back on raw
Posted by: "nat_franc" chickenchucker@gmail.com nat_franc
Date: Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:28 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "cmhausrath" <cmhausrath@...> wrote:

>
> Natalie, I feel like I recognize you & your pup (such a great name!)
> from another list -- didn't he have parvo in July?

yup, that was us:o) and it didn't turn out to be parvo. good thing,
i guess...it took us forever to figure out exactly was wrong! the
traveling and going from one vet to another didn't help, either.

natalie

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

10a. Re: diarrhea, concerned/frustrated newbie
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:32 am ((PDT))

Hi, Louisa!
There, I knew I'd find your original message! ; )

First of all, why are you feeding cooked meat at all?

Even for newbie dogs, raw is more easily digested, and much better
nutrition for them. Feeding meat without bone, whether cooked or raw,
*will result in loose, even runny stools.

It seems to me you are falling for the "too much, too soon" syndrome.
Too much protein variety, too soon, and adding cooked meats into the
mix can make loose stools worse.

Its important to know, and be able to recognize, the difference
between loose, runny stools that just mean the dog is having a natural
response to a change in their diet, and true diarrhea.
Loose, runny stools; too much food at a meal, too much food in
general, too much new food, too many new protein sources, too much
organ at one meal, or in a day..... just the change from kibble to raw
can do it to a dog; the list goes on. Its natural, normal, even. Just
adjust the diet a bit, and be more cautious. It doesn't mean the dog
is sick; its just reacting to what it was fed. A lot of these problems
resolve with time and experience, but some dogs will always need a
little tlc and more caution when feeding new foods.

True diarrhea, on the other hand, is watery, frequent, often explosive
stools that cannot be held back. Diarrhea is caused by; bacterial
infections, viral infections, parasites, a reaction to medications,
intestinal or bowel disorders and, sometimes, food intolerances.

I'd take *all your dogs back to the beginning; feed the very first
protein that you started with. Feed it alone for at least a week. Feed
less at a meal than you think is ideal. Feed more often; if you are
feeding once a day, feed twice or if twice a day, go to three meals.

Most, or at least a lot, of people start with chicken; its cheap, easy
to obtain, easy to portion, has soft bones, is pretty bland. You could
go to chicken, and start feeding it as if you were just beginning to
feed raw.

The general newbie rule of thumb is; feed 2-3% of each dog's estimated
IDEAL ADULT weight per day. You will have to tweak this; puppies,
small and active dogs generally need more, like 3-6%. Large to giant
breeds or couch potatoes, older or overweight dogs often need less,
maybe 1-2%. You can tell better when and how to tweak the portions fed
as you see how your dog reacts to the portions you are feeding;
Getting fluffy? cut back. Too thin? add more meat. Portion sizes for
the newbie dog, and pups, should be smaller but more frequently fed.

Feed only chicken, or whatever protein you started with, for at least
a week, maybe 2 or more. You want the dog to be completely acclimated
before moving on and adding other proteins. Take it slow, variety and
balance in the diet is achieved over time - weeks or months, not days.
You'll have the rest of your dog's long and happy life to experiment
and feed protein and body part variety. Don't be in too much of a
hurry to add organs, either.

Slippery Elm Bark Powder can help a dog that is experiencing digestive
distress by soothing the stomach and intestines and reducing
inflammation. It won't firm up stools.

For your Collie, I would recommend a days fast. No food, no treats.
Offer plenty of water or broth to counteract possible dehydration.
Mix up some Slippery Elm Bark Powder
http://fiascofarm.com/herbs/supplements.htm
into some ground or chopped chicken - about 1 tsp to 1 ounce of meat.
Separate this into 1 ounce meatballs.
Freeze some if you've made a bunch, they thaw quickly.
Dose your Collie with 1 SEBP meatball about 4-5 times during the fast day.
On the second day, reintroduce your initial protein, but boneless.
Take it slow, and feed 3-4 very small meals throughout the day.
Dose with the SEBP meatballs before each meal, and between meals.
Gradually increase the meal size and reintroduce bone over the next
few days.
Cut back the SEBP meatballs to just before a meal, then gradually
eliminate feeding them.
If this dog reacts to new proteins, or boneless meals with sloppy
stools, you can dose with SEBP to ease the introduction.
TC and let us know of your progress!
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

"that cooking bones is a no-no. If I take those out, cook the rest,
and give the bones separately will it be ok?"

> I posted earlier about my doggies getting diarrhea from eating too much
> salmon too soon. I purchased Slippery Elm Bark and gave that to them.
> I also have been feeding them bland food w/o anything new being
> introduced. Last night I fed them cooked ground beef - I forgot to
> take their chicken out of the freezer and thought this would be
> palatable. Today my collie has diarrhea again. Am I to be concerned?
> I was planning on feeding them chicken this week, but I was also going
> to try and introduce another protein source also. Am I doing something
> wrong? I am trying to do best for my animals and feel like I am making
> them sick. :(
>
> Thanks in advance for any words of wisdom that might be helpful.
>
> Louisa C.
> Austin, TX.
>

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

11a. Re: treats for raw diet?
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:44 am ((PDT))

Hi, Ivette!
YQW!
When dogs get really full, like we do after eating a
Thanksgiving or holiday meal, they just naturally want/need to 'lounge
around' and digest it. Its the body's response to aid proper digestion
and, if you're full, why run around and expend energy, if you don't
need to hunt? ; )
Maybe you can 'switch' the bigger meal to the morning, and the smaller
meal to the evening? We feed dogs at different times of day and
different size portions to suit our schedules and ideas of feeding.
Left to themselves; dogs would hunt when they were hungry, eat until
they were as full as they could hold, and rest until they were hungry
again. Wolves follow this natural cycle. As long as Nugget is getting
the proper nutrition in adequate amounts, don't worry.
Tweak his diet a little at a time ; )
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> Giselle, Nugget is doing so well on all raw. I've even taken your
advice on the chicken gizzards and hearts. He loves them. <snip>
Anyway, my question is this, should Nugget have been sluggish because
he ate more? And when you feed larger than normal quantities then fast
or feed less the next day, do they spend more time lounging with the
large meal? This may seem like a stupid question but I'm not assuming
anything now. I'm not assuming my dog is like a human any more.
> Thanks for all your help. >
> Ivette Casiano
> "Live for today, plan for tomorrow"

Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

12a. Re: Iodine requirments
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:59 am ((PDT))

> I did read that iodine is nessacery for proper thyroid function in dogs.

Hi,George.I know some people supplement Kelp (iodine),and some kibble has it in ingredients list,but if i remember right,if you give too much of iodine,then it mess up thyroid function so,that is one of the thing you watch out for dose,I read somewhere.

I don't want my dog's feeding menu list full of supplements,and I believe that raw food itself is good enough. My dog eat fish and if the fish had iodine,even small amount,over time,sheis being supplemented with real food to get iodine.

>Then I thought - where would a wolf get iodine? Is it really important?

I myself don't give it to my dog.I see it unnecessary.Kibble cannot get it from real meat/fish,so,they maybe adding it but not our diet.

yassy

---------------------------------
Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

12b. Re: Iodine requirments
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Aug 20, 2007 10:11 am ((PDT))

"gevan1a" <gevans@...> wrote:

>
> Then I thought - where would a wolf get iodine? Is it really
important?
*****
Yup, that's the right first question! However/wherever wolves are
getting their iodine, it a. must be the right amount, over all; and
b. must be available appropriately in flesh, fat, skin, organs and
bone.

According to some reading I did (references available on request),
the thyroid stores perhaps 60% of a body's iodine, but the remaining
iodine is found in meat and organs. A wolf/dog may get few chances
in life to eat the thyroid gland but it will have ample opportunity
to eat meat and organs.

Additionally, in the US at least most all livestock (including
poultry) is fed supplemental iodine. My guess is a dog eating an
average (neither brilliant nor inadequate) raw diet will get plenty
of iodine from the critters we feed. If you can toss in a thyroid
gland once in a while, great; but it really doesn't appear to be
necessary. Certainly kelp is not.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

13a. Re: begining
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Mon Aug 20, 2007 10:06 am ((PDT))

Michelle,

You say digestive problems - what exactly is the vet's diagnosis for this
poor beastie?

Casey

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

14a. Re: Food percentages
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Aug 20, 2007 10:22 am ((PDT))

"steffanie771" <skinners771@...> wrote:
>
> I was wondering how much the percentages are for food, like fat,
bones,
> meat, etc.
>
> My husband talked with the local grocery store and the butcher will
let
> him take whatever he wants out to the rendering barrel (it is less
they
> have to pay to dispose of it).
*****
Easiest way is to take the whole dang thing and sort it out later.
That way you can be as picky as you want. I made a deal to take the
barrel home, then return it the next morning after I'd picked through
it in my garage.

If that doesn't make sense, then the next easiest way to sort is to
take all the meat, some of of the organs, and some of the bones.

(All of the really meaty bones, some of the bare but edible bones
like pork or lamb, and none of the bare, inedible bones.)

Depending on the needs of your dogs, you can take half the meat as
fat. If you're worried about too much fat, then grab for the meatier
hunks. You'll be able to visually sort the stuff pretty quickly,
really.

Congrats on your score!
Chris O

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

All information on this list represents personal opinion only. By staying on this list, you agree to never hold anyone from this list or associated with this list liable for any information posted through this list. You agree to take personal responsibility for your learning, and for personal responsibility for what you feed yourself, your family, and your dogs, cats, ferrets, or any other animal that lives under your care. If you don't agree, please unsubscribe immediately.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/

<*> Your email settings:
Digest Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/join

(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:rawfeeding-normal@yahoogroups.com
mailto:rawfeeding-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
rawfeeding-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:

http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

------------------------------------------------------------------------