[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11925

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. need advice about starting pup back on raw
From: nat_franc
1b. Re: need advice about starting pup back on raw
From: cmhausrath
1c. Re: need advice about starting pup back on raw
From: nat_franc

2a. Re: Once a day feeding and Frequent urination...anyone seen this???
From: costrowski75

3a. Re: 2-3% feeding amounts
From: costrowski75

4a. Re: treats for raw diet?
From: costrowski75
4b. Re: treats for raw diet?
From: Anntiga@aol.com

5.1. Re: New to raw
From: Yasuko herron

6.1. question
From: Patty Reid
6.2. Re: question
From: cmhausrath
6.3. Re: question
From: Patty Reid
6.4. Re: question
From: Yasuko herron
6.5. Re: question
From: Carol Santangelo
6.6. Re: question
From: Yasuko herron
6.7. Re: question
From: Patty Reid
6.8. Re: question
From: cmhausrath

7a. found goodies at Asian market
From: Loretta Luja
7b. Re: found goodies at Asian market
From: costrowski75
7c. Re: found goodies at Asian market
From: Loretta Luja

8a. chicken qtrs
From: Patty Reid
8b. Re: chicken qtrs
From: Yasuko herron

9. prey blood
From: Loretta Luja

10. Chicken Qtrs
From: Patty Reid

11. Cod liver oil
From: gevan1a

12. So. Cal.
From: Joe Rodriguez

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. need advice about starting pup back on raw
Posted by: "nat_franc" chickenchucker@gmail.com nat_franc
Date: Sat Aug 18, 2007 7:14 am ((PDT))

atticus, 7mo boxer, had an acute attack of IBD, caused by food
allergies, and pancreatitis, all exacerbated by a small piece of
chicken bone stuck in his small bowel. he was sick for almost a month
before we figured out what it was. he lost from 52 lbs down to 39
lbs. he had exploratory surgery 12 days ago. he was on prescription
canned food for 5 days and then switched over to a home cooked food
based on Lew Olsen's pancreatic diet, with added protein as he is so
thin and young. i really want to get him back onto his raw food, the
vet has said he is comfortable with it. i just don't know when! he is
on Keflex, Cipro, and Pepcid, per doctors orders and i have him on
L-glutamine, beta carotene, vit.E, ester C, fish oil, Prozyme, and
acidophilus.
i have fed a raw diet for 2 1/2 years now and am totally comfortable
with it. i guess i am just scared because he was SO sick and he is
stable on this diet and for some dumb reason, i am nervous about the
switch.
does any one have any advice on how long to wait before switching
him back to raw food?

natalie and atticus

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

1b. Re: need advice about starting pup back on raw
Posted by: "cmhausrath" cmhausrath@yahoo.com cmhausrath
Date: Sat Aug 18, 2007 8:12 am ((PDT))

"nat_franc" <chickenchucker@...> wrote:

> atticus, 7mo boxer, had an acute attack of IBD, caused by food
> allergies, and pancreatitis, all exacerbated by a small piece of
> chicken bone stuck in his small bowel.

Natalie --

I am really, really sorry for both of you. This sounds like it has
been tough for everyone involved! That said, I do have to ask some
questions. I am NOT, most assuredly, criticizing you, but rather
trying to get to the bottom of this so that the folks on this list
who really are knowledgeable (not me) can help.

So: how were the IBD and pancreatitis diagnosed? How about the food
allergies? (And what is he supposed to be allergic TO?) How was
Atticus doing before this situation reared its ugly head? How does
the vet explain this sudden emergence of problems? What I'm getting
at is, has some underlying medical condition been identified that's
caused these symptoms, with something setting it off in the
beginning, or is the vet grasping at straws so he can hang some label
on a very sick, upset pup? What kind of long-term treatment plan has
the vet proposed to keep this underlying condition under control?

I ask all this because it seems like part of the blame has been hung
on a piece of chicken bone found in your dog's digestive system. I
may be ignorant (okay, strike the "may"), but I just don't buy this.
Your pup was sick for a month; a piece of chicken bone just wouldn't,
in my experience, have hung around that long. Excess bone, bone that
can't be digested, is either yarked up or pooped out. If some kind
of blockage did occur because of bone, it wouldn't be a month-long
lingering illness -- it would be an acute emergency.

Raw feeding can be adapted and adjusted to suit any dog, with any
chronic issues (Ann, are you around to explain how you helped Scamp
with his IBD??), but knowing what's really going on with the dog is
step 1.

> does any one have any advice on how long to wait before switching
> him back to raw food?

Wait? Not at all. I know you were scared -- I understand, I'm not
pointing a finger -- but now that you're emerging from this crisis,
it's time to put the pup back on real food. There's no sense waiting
for "wellness" of some kind before resuming raw feeding -- if what
you're trying to do is improve your pup's health, raw feeding is the
way to get there, not the reward AFTER you get there.

I know you know this, I'm just trying to reinforce your good sense!

If I were you, I would most definitely start out with baby steps,
with food that you just KNOW he'll do alright with. I'd be inclined
to do small meals of lean boneless chicken or turkey or whatever
until you've got your sea legs back, but I wouldn't delay even
another meal.

And please keep us posted -- the more details, the more folks can
help.

-- sandy & griffin

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

1c. Re: need advice about starting pup back on raw
Posted by: "nat_franc" chickenchucker@gmail.com nat_franc
Date: Sat Aug 18, 2007 9:18 am ((PDT))

my replies are marked by ****:o)

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "cmhausrath" <cmhausrath@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> So: how were the IBD and pancreatitis diagnosed?
****the vet did exploratory surgery and examined the pancreas and sent
biopsies of the stomach, small bowel and large bowel off to a
pathologist.****
> How about the food
> allergies? (And what is he supposed to be allergic TO?)
*****the conclusion reached by the vet and pathologist, based on my
detailed account.***
> How was
> Atticus doing before this situation reared its ugly head?
****he was doing fabulous, well, he has always had a bit of IBS,
stress related.****
How does
> the vet explain this sudden emergence of problems? What I'm getting
> at is, has some underlying medical condition been identified that's
> caused these symptoms, with something setting it off in the
> beginning, or is the vet grasping at straws so he can hang some label
> on a very sick, upset pup?
*****i was on a long trip, visitng family, long story short, i had a
financial crisis and had to feed him canned pedigree food that was on
hand at a relatives house for 3 days. the vet figures that it was the
low quality "beef" and the additives in the food. this vet is
fabulous, he was more than happy to work with me on everything, he
sanctions my raw diet and fully believes that atticus does best on it.
there were several complete blood panels run, there were 2 sets of
x-rays done, we tried medications for IBD flare up and they didn't
work, probably because of the bone fragment, he said when he went in
to the abdominal cavity, it was full of infection. the WBC count was
in the 50s, indicating infection and an autoimmune response.****
What kind of long-term treatment plan has
> the vet proposed to keep this underlying condition under control?
****atticus is to finish up his antibiotics and we are doing what he
calls a "food trial", basically me feeding him foods that he has done
well on before and starting new foods slowly, adding Prozyme to each
meal, keeping it lower fat for now (because of the pancreatitis) and
gradually easing him back onto a normal diet. he says for now, since
atticus is doing so well on the cooked chicken stew, he feels that it
was, hopefully, an acute attack and not going to be a chronic
problem.*****
>
> I ask all this because it seems like part of the blame has been hung
> on a piece of chicken bone found in your dog's digestive system.
******funny, that is what all of anti-raw family and friends thought,
i got so sick of listening to them! but, the vet said that the bone
was NOT the problem, that the IBD flare up was, and the infection
caused by the bone just made him sicker. and he was really really
sick, he had been on antibiotics for over a week when we finally did
the surgery. he was dying before our eyes.****

>
> I know you know this, I'm just trying to reinforce your good sense!
>
> If I were you, I would most definitely start out with baby steps,
> with food that you just KNOW he'll do alright with.
*****thanks! i know i can do this, i just have to be careful!

natalie and atticus

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

2a. Re: Once a day feeding and Frequent urination...anyone seen this???
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sat Aug 18, 2007 7:40 am ((PDT))

Shannon Parker <mrbatisse@...> wrote:
I will switch her back to 2 meals a day to see if she goes back to
normal, and if she does, I'll just keep her at that. Perhaps her 12
year old bladder just can't take the change :(
*****
At 12 years, I'd say she's entitled to three squares a day if'n she
wants them! I didn't realize she was a senior. Since it's my
inclination to feed seniors smaller, more frequent meals, you'll not
get an argument from me. Just be sure this isn't a bladder infection.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

3a. Re: 2-3% feeding amounts
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sat Aug 18, 2007 7:55 am ((PDT))

"Cathy Tweeddale Mitchell" <duckndogs@...> wrote:
>> According to my research a 50 lb dog should get about a pound of
food. Giving a 35# Sheltie that amount would like be too much food.
My adult Labs get
> about one pound per day.
>
> Cathy
*****
Well, we cannot leave individual need out of the equation. It may be
that a 35lb Sheltie will burn through the same amount of food as a
Lab if the Sheltie is a high roller and the Lab is not.

I would not rely solely on the math. I would put my faith in how the
dog looks and acts at any given amount of food. If the dog is losing
its waist and tuck up and you aren't sure when you last felt ribs,
then reduce intake/increase exercise. If the dog eats like a horse
but is lean, athletic, bright-eyed and bushy tailed and eager to get
on with life, then a pound a day may what the kid needs.

My 50lb Lab really needed 1-1/2lb daily; my 32lb BC gets just shy of
a pound of food a day and my guess is many people would like to see
her a few pounds heavier.

A feeding range of 3/4lb to a pound does not seem unreasonable.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

4a. Re: treats for raw diet?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sat Aug 18, 2007 8:01 am ((PDT))

emil smolensky <esmolensky@...> wrote:
>
> Will the chicken feet be too small, he's almost 80# now and will
probably get to 150# when he's mature? He is a boerboel and 6mos old.
*****
I doubt it. My big lab enjoys his chicken feet snacks, they just
disappear more quickly than the ones I give to my BC. He gives them a
chomp or two, then swallows. Been doing this for some years now, no
problema. I mean, you shouldn't count on chicken feet as significant
interactive food, but they are definitely treats.

Chris O

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________

4b. Re: treats for raw diet?
Posted by: "Anntiga@aol.com" Anntiga@aol.com anntiga
Date: Sat Aug 18, 2007 8:59 am ((PDT))

Training treats . . . I make my own beef jerky just for Norman. . . in
classes all the dogs near Norman would come to me. Then I went to a training
class where the trainer used hot dogs and threw them on the floor and gave them
indiscriminately to the dogs.

That was it! Norman now only responds well for hot dogs when in classes
with other dogs and other treats. Now I buy the very best hot dogs I can get
(made locally by a high end butcher). I cut them up into pieces the size of a
pea. They last a long time and are pretty inexpensive because the pieces are
so small.

Norman loves them. In a class where I must use lots of treats and Norman is
getting hot dog pieces, by the end of the class Norman has only gotten a
half to two thirds of a good quality hot dog. Out of class I still use my
homemade beef jerky (also in very small pieces).

Ann (quit the class where all the treats were thrown on the floor and at the
dogs)
Norman (learning how to stick his head under water to retrieve by "diving"
for hot dog pieces that don't float.)
San Francisco Peninsula, CA

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

5.1. Re: New to raw
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sat Aug 18, 2007 8:34 am ((PDT))

>When she first goes they are formed but then end up runny.

Hi. Next time you feed,why not try skin off and cut off some visible fat.

Dog needs fat and skin but newbie dogs may not torelate fat too well.

> Also she at times will throw up just a VERY tiny amount of slivered bone.

Maybe if you were feeding only quaters for a week,she may had too much bone in one sitting and undigestable bone came up from mouth. Try Split chicken breast with rib.Those are more meaty and with a little bone.

Or,get whole chicken and cut to yourdogs' portion and give each portion day by day till you finish up whole chicken.That way,some days,she get quarter,some day breast with wing,etc.. She can eat leaner parts ,fattier parts,bonier parts,meatier parts etc.. Good easy way to feed.

> Here is the kicker in the whole thing, she tore her cruciate ligament

I am sorry to hear that. I hope you did not choose TPLO surgery which I think/feel very aggresive way of fixing ligament. My dog was diagnosed as Cuciate ligament tore after X-ray and abnormal drawer movement beforesurgery and my ortho vet told us that, suture way to fix ligament tore is more gentle way of surgery and good for my dog size.

Afterall,when she went surgery,vet found no ligament was tore and, we still not sure waht was causing her limping that time but,it ispossible that possible arthritis X-ray showed was calplit or vaccination or lyme (I doubt this though because limping was right after lyme negative on test)..she recovered naturally with help of glucosamin supplement after surgery.

But I know that after your dog goes surgery,keep her with short leash and restrict activity,no jumping,running and let her wear Elizabeth collar because dog tend to lick the wound and it sometimes bring dog to 2nd surgery to fix it and it prolong the recovery time.

My vet prescribed to my dog tramadol which as side effects,make dog goes sleepy so,I was still kept her on short leash andrestricted activity in pen but,she was mostly sleeping.

And,after surgery,dog better not use stairs so,prepare thedogs' sleeping place where shedoes not need to use stair.If you can't pick her up and carry down or up OR go easy one step by step with her.

I hope your dog be well soon...

Also,my ortho special vet when consulting gave us 3 choices forsurgery.One was let the nature take its course(sometimes,if you restrict activity and keep on short leash the ligament seems heal by itself),2nd choice was TPLO surgery which vet was not too recommended to our dog due size and method and everything,3rd was surgery using suture.

If your vet did not give you choices of surgery,you may want to talk to your vet again and be certain you are ok with the surgery method.

I hear that once big dog gets TPLO surgery on one leg,1 year or little longer later,other leg get same problems and, ending up to do TPLO surgery on both legs are not uncommon.

I read these stuff on internet forum of Rottie.I think it is called Rottie forum or something like that.I just came across the forum when I was searching pro and con of surgery andlooking for options etc.

So,if you are interested,you can google forum and ask them about surgery.They may help you a lot.

I hope you find good info on surgery as well ,and I wish you good luck both with diet and surgery for your dog.

yassy

---------------------------------
Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (33)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

6.1. question
Posted by: "Patty Reid" pattyannreidster@gmail.com pattyannreid
Date: Sat Aug 18, 2007 8:35 am ((PDT))

Hello Everyone,
Last night & again this morning, my poodles got their raw meals for the
first time. I fed them chicken quarters. So far, no ill effects.
Hopefully, there won't be any "surprises" if you know what I mean. I will
switch to chicken frames tomorrow & probably not return to the quarters.
(guess I'll have a cook-out) LOL
Question: what kind of supplements should I give my just bred 3 year old
girl? With whelping in a short time, I want to make sure I think of
everything. I thought about waiting to switch until after she whelped, but
do believe this is the way to go & hated to delay.
Any suggestions?

--
Patty
www.monetstandards.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (62)
________________________________________________________________________

6.2. Re: question
Posted by: "cmhausrath" cmhausrath@yahoo.com cmhausrath
Date: Sat Aug 18, 2007 9:02 am ((PDT))

"Patty Reid" <pattyannreidster@...> wrote:

> I will
> switch to chicken frames tomorrow & probably not return to the
quarters.

Why would you do this? Quarters are just fine -- whole chickens are
better, IMO, but quarters are fine -- whereas stripped chicken frames
just aren't stand-alone raw food. To feed stripped frames, you'd
need to add significant amounts of meatymeat -- so why are you making
this switch? I'm baffled! Perhaps you've been led astray?

> Question: what kind of supplements should I give my just bred 3
year old
> girl?

No supplements, but most folks seem to find that their bitches prefer
more organs and less bone as they get nearer whelping. I'm not one
to know, but I can tell you there's tons of information in the
archives if you want to go looking:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/messages

-- sandy & griffin

Messages in this topic (62)
________________________________________________________________________

6.3. Re: question
Posted by: "Patty Reid" pattyannreidster@gmail.com pattyannreid
Date: Sat Aug 18, 2007 9:16 am ((PDT))

Perhaps I've misunderstood; chicken qtrs have too much bone (weight bearing
at that) & don't provide enough nutrition.
Then I used the wrong term for whole chicken. I said chicken frame. So,
just what is a chicken frame?
I will go to the site you suggested.
Thank you-

Patty

On 8/18/07, cmhausrath <cmhausrath@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> "Patty Reid" <pattyannreidster@...> wrote:
>
> > I will
> > switch to chicken frames tomorrow & probably not return to the
> quarters.
>
> Why would you do this? Quarters are just fine -- whole chickens are
> better, IMO, but quarters are fine -- whereas stripped chicken frames
> just aren't stand-alone raw food. To feed stripped frames, you'd
> need to add significant amounts of meatymeat -- so why are you making
> this switch? I'm baffled! Perhaps you've been led astray?
>
> > Question: what kind of supplements should I give my just bred 3
> year old
> > girl?
>
> No supplements, but most folks seem to find that their bitches prefer
> more organs and less bone as they get nearer whelping. I'm not one
> to know, but I can tell you there's tons of information in the
> archives if you want to go looking:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/messages
>
> -- sandy & griffin
>
>
>

--
Patty
www.monetstandards.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (62)
________________________________________________________________________

6.4. Re: question
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sat Aug 18, 2007 9:21 am ((PDT))

> I will switch to chicken frames tomorrow & probably not return to the quarters.

Hi,Patty.I have never heard of frame. What is Chicken Frames? Are they just bone that left from getting all meats from birds??

If you feeding quarter and seems good,why not keep doing couple more days and maybe coupld of days later,get then split chicken breast with rib and see how they do?

If you still feed chicken after that,and if you finish up all quarters and breast with rib you got , then you can buy the whole chicken and feed portions to dogs.

That maybe easier.

I have no idea what frame is so,I have no say about it but, I see no reason you need to change if you are doing great with quarters.

yassy

---------------------------------
Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (62)
________________________________________________________________________

6.5. Re: question
Posted by: "Carol Santangelo" carol.santangelo@gmail.com santangelo_carol
Date: Sat Aug 18, 2007 9:37 am ((PDT))

Why would you switch to chicken frames instead of quarters? I am relatively
new at this (3 months), but I would definitely choose quarters over frames.
Hands down, no question. My Bullmastiff loves his chicken quarters. Just
curious why you were thinking of switching...or at least not finishing off
what you have?

Carol--with Zoe (French Bulldog, 3 years old) and Bruno (Bullmastiff, 8
months old)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (62)
________________________________________________________________________

6.6. Re: question
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sat Aug 18, 2007 9:56 am ((PDT))

>Perhaps I've misunderstood; chicken qtrs have too much bone (weight bearing
>that) & don't provide enough nutrition.

Hi,Patty. Compare to split chicken breast with rib bone for example,yes,quarters have more bone,but qurter is part of chicken so,it provide some nutrition.If you keep feeding quarters whole life of dog,yes,it is not enough nutrition giving though.

You are feeding raw and real meat:-P That alone means you giving more nutrition to your dog than 1 day before switching the diet.

When you read about weight bearing bone,those term means leg portion of big animals like cow.

Knockle bone,feumer bone,those big hard bone.

Chicken feet is actually good snack and you can get it quite cheap atshoppers and Leg quarter of chicken is not weight bearing bone so,you can feed it.Bone is soft. No problems.

It same to Turkey.Turkey Leg looks huge and bit harder than chicken but dog can eat it without any problems.

For Birds,you can feed all parts.

>Then I used the wrong term for whole chicken. I said chicken frame.

oh ok. that maybe better and easier way of feeding.

Good luck

yassy

---------------------------------
Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (62)
________________________________________________________________________

6.7. Re: question
Posted by: "Patty Reid" pattyannreidster@gmail.com pattyannreid
Date: Sat Aug 18, 2007 10:23 am ((PDT))

I understood that they are not enough for my dogs. Guess it got a little
confusing. I will continue

On 8/18/07, Carol Santangelo <carol.santangelo@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Why would you switch to chicken frames instead of quarters? I am
> relatively
> new at this (3 months), but I would definitely choose quarters over
> frames.
> Hands down, no question. My Bullmastiff loves his chicken quarters. Just
> curious why you were thinking of switching...or at least not finishing off
> what you have?
>
> Carol--with Zoe (French Bulldog, 3 years old) and Bruno (Bullmastiff, 8
> months old)
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

--
Patty
www.monetstandards.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (62)
________________________________________________________________________

6.8. Re: question
Posted by: "cmhausrath" cmhausrath@yahoo.com cmhausrath
Date: Sat Aug 18, 2007 10:50 am ((PDT))

"Patty Reid" <pattyannreidster@...> wrote:

> Perhaps I've misunderstood; chicken qtrs have too much bone (weight
bearing
> at that) & don't provide enough nutrition.

Chicken quarters (talking here about leg quarters, as are often sold
in 10# bags, not about chicken quarters produced at home from a whole
chicken) aren't the meatiest item, but nor are they so bony as to be
insufficient alone. Lately I've been feeding a quarter every other
day, alternating with meaty meals (my dog no longer tolerates a lot
of bone, so I keep the bone content consistently low). Works for us,
and they ARE often cheap.

As to the "weight-bearing" bit, well, a commercially produced chicken
is something like 8 weeks old, and weighs *at most* maybe 6 or 7
pounds. Not a lot of weight to be bearing!! There's no need to
worry about these bones -- it's only the leg bones of really big
animals (think cows) that should be avoided.

I'm not sure what's meant by "don't provide enough nutrition" -- I
mean, if you fed nothing BUT chicken quarters, for months on end, it
wouldn't be a great diet, but as part & parcel of a variety of menu
items, they're just fine.

> Then I used the wrong term for whole chicken. I said chicken
frame. So,
> just what is a chicken frame?

As I've understood it, chicken frames are the chicken carcass after
the meat has been removed for human consumption. Not, therefore,
much worth feeding! But if you were thinking whole chickens, that's
just lovely.

Still, no harm using up the chicken quarters either.

-- sandy & griffin

Messages in this topic (62)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

7a. found goodies at Asian market
Posted by: "Loretta Luja" luja@comcast.net desertwilite
Date: Sat Aug 18, 2007 8:37 am ((PDT))

Hi all,

I found an Asian market yesterday and had some
questions about the "loot"

_raw pig ears_: do I need to dry/process them, and
would they just be considered a treat?

_pig tongue:_ I assume would be considered a meat meal

_raw pig hocks:_ Now these are not large, but since my
dogs ate the cooked bones before with no problems,
should I still be worried about a choke hazard with raw
ones?

Also found turkey legs (do your dogs eat the long boney
tendon things or do you take them out?),pig heart and
whole duck.

Has anyone besides me get so wrapped up in the
search for dog food that they forget to buy human
food?LOL Husband says we get the duck!! :-\

Loretta L

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

7b. Re: found goodies at Asian market
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sat Aug 18, 2007 8:59 am ((PDT))

Loretta Luja <luja@...> wrote:
> _raw pig ears_: do I need to dry/process them, and
> would they just be considered a treat?
*****
You can feed them raw, you can dry them too. Your choice. Either
way they're fun for dogs. I don't count them as a meal but they can
be part of a meal.

> > _pig tongue:_ I assume would be considered a meat meal
*****
Yes, and a fatty one. If your dogs are not acclimated to fatty
meals, you might want to introduce tongue meat in smallish amounts.

> _raw pig hocks:_ Now these are not large, but since my
> dogs ate the cooked bones before with no problems,
> should I still be worried about a choke hazard with raw
> ones?
*****
If they could eat 'em cooked, they can eat 'em raw. Just stick
around to supervise the action.

> Also found turkey legs (do your dogs eat the long boney
> tendon things or do you take them out?),pig heart and
> whole duck.
*****
I feed turkey legs attached at the very least to turkey thighs, and
do not worry about that stiletto-like bone. Some people do, and I
can understand the concern: remove it is you are worried.

Pig heart is a good thing. I give them whole to my big dogs. I
don't feed duck because it's just too fatty for the price. Cooked
for humans it's quite nice.

Has anyone besides me get so wrapped up in the
> search for dog food that they forget to buy human
> food?
*****
Yup. Comes with the territory I think.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

7c. Re: found goodies at Asian market
Posted by: "Loretta Luja" luja@comcast.net desertwilite
Date: Sat Aug 18, 2007 10:34 am ((PDT))

Thanks for the input Chris O. And as for
the duck--I'm glad you reminded me of
the fattiness. I won't feel guilty eating it
myself now!!

Loretta L

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

8a. chicken qtrs
Posted by: "Patty Reid" pattyannreidster@gmail.com pattyannreid
Date: Sat Aug 18, 2007 10:00 am ((PDT))

So chicken qtrs are good to start with? I understand I have to make my own
decisions, but was told (after I bought them) they are not enough nutrition
for my dogs. Perhaps in the sense that they alone with never making a
change was not good. If they are acceptable, I will continue with them for
the next week or so. Then I will change to split breasts. When can
I/should I give chicken liver?
My dogs are responding well so far. (never heard them so quiet!!) I don't
want to do anything too fast & cause an upset.

--
Patty
www.monetstandards.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________

8b. Re: chicken qtrs
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sat Aug 18, 2007 11:10 am ((PDT))

>If they are acceptable, I will continue with them for the next week or so. Then I will change >to split breasts.

HI,Patty. You can either feed chicken breast with rib bones Or you can just get whole chicken.Either way is fine.

If you buy whole,you get giblets bag;liver,heart etc inside the bird,so,you can keep it till you want to use it.

>When can I/should I give chicken liver?

I gave on 2nd week(I put my dog on chicken 2 weeks;1 week without organ,1 weekwith organ),but if you think your dog can handle it earlier than mine,you can give on that time but,give maybe thumb nail size to start and see how your dog do.If your dog was ok,then increase the amount to 5-10% of their daily intake.

I put organs on 2nd week because my dog did well on chicken in first week and I thought she can try new stuff on second week. It is just me. So,if you rather want to go to next protin without organ,then,that is fine too.It is all up to you and your dog.

what I did..

1st week Leg quarter first half of week and split chicken breast for later week
This is because, those were what I have got back then. I did not finish up the
package,and I will use them next round when I feed chicken again sometimes.

2nd week Whole chicken cut up portion with chicken organ

3rd week, Bit chicken with Beef with chicken organ
If my dog got problem here,then,I know beef is causing problems so,I would cut
back Beef portion and increase Beef amount slowly.

Just try adding new thing only one at a time and start from small amount and see how your dogs do and judge.

organ tends to make poo softer so, if you saw softer poo,cut back the amount of liver and if that did not help,give more bones.

But these are just my way as example.You decide what works best for you and your dog.

Relax and everything will works fine:-P

Good thing about raw feeding is that nutrition balance over time.

yassy

---------------------------------
Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

9. prey blood
Posted by: "Loretta Luja" luja@comcast.net desertwilite
Date: Sat Aug 18, 2007 11:48 am ((PDT))

I saw tubs of "pork blood" at the market that got me
thinking. Have any of you thought of the blood that
is missing when fed prey to your dog? I mean unless
dogs are capturing live prey and allowed to kill and
eat it as a whole unadultered meal, wouldn't they miss
out on all the blood that is pumping through?

Maybe it's not an important element but I do remember
butchering my own raised rabbits and watching game
being butchered, and there is quite a blood loss.

I am not, by the way criticizing any diet, just observing
and wondering. What are your thoughts?

Loretta L.

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

10. Chicken Qtrs
Posted by: "Patty Reid" pattyannreidster@gmail.com pattyannreid
Date: Sat Aug 18, 2007 11:50 am ((PDT))

Thanks, all, for clearing up my "newbie" questions & concerns.

--
Patty
www.monetstandards.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

11. Cod liver oil
Posted by: "gevan1a" gevans@sycomtech.com gevan1a
Date: Sun Aug 19, 2007 7:55 pm ((PDT))

I remember reading a post about fish oil and someone commented - as
long as it's not cod liver oil. What's the problem with cod liver oil.
I've found it hard to find fish oil of any sort that's not flavored
with lemon or orange.

-George

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

12. So. Cal.
Posted by: "Joe Rodriguez" jrod.65@gmail.com PEPITO65
Date: Sun Aug 19, 2007 8:01 pm ((PDT))

I am going to start my dogs on the raw diet this weekend and was wondering if there are any local raw feeders that can recommend butchers or co-ops in southern california (organic?), specifically the south bay, downey, Whittier or as far south as orange county.
Thanks.
Joe

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

All information on this list represents personal opinion only. By staying on this list, you agree to never hold anyone from this list or associated with this list liable for any information posted through this list. You agree to take personal responsibility for your learning, and for personal responsibility for what you feed yourself, your family, and your dogs, cats, ferrets, or any other animal that lives under your care. If you don't agree, please unsubscribe immediately.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/

<*> Your email settings:
Digest Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/join

(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:rawfeeding-normal@yahoogroups.com
mailto:rawfeeding-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
rawfeeding-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:

http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

------------------------------------------------------------------------