[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11926

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Vomiting Pieces of Bone
From: Susanne MacLeod

2a. Re: So. Cal.
From: Alison Maffett
2b. Re: So. Cal.
From: Morledzep@aol.com

3a. Re: prey blood
From: harrynala
3b. prey blood
From: siamesekittens4u@aol.com
3c. Re: prey blood
From: costrowski75

4a. Re: Nature's Variety Raw Food Diets
From: Laura Atkinson

5. Duck and organ question
From: mariola9000

6. Cornish Hens
From: Brandi Bryant

7. begining
From: michelle bracy

8a. Re: Cod liver oil
From: costrowski75

9.1. Re: New to raw
From: linoleum5017

10a. Re: chicken qtrs
From: Morledzep@aol.com

11. chicken backs question
From: Susan DeLeon

12. Brought home my first foster - How do I get him back in shape?
From: kaebruney

13a. Re: need advice about starting pup back on raw
From: cmhausrath

14a. Re: found goodies at Asian market
From: kaebruney

15. Re: [MDTN_BARF] venison question
From: betty hinson

16.1. What can I feed?
From: akitaprincess04

17. Re: treats on a raw diet
From: Michael Moore

18a. Broken Teeth
From: Purity

19.1. Re: new to raw feeding
From: Yasuko herron

20. Need reassurance
From: Brandi Bryant

21. rawfeeding cats?
From: Becky Brooks (Marsh)

22. Test
From: Brandi Bryant

Messages
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1. Vomiting Pieces of Bone
Posted by: "Susanne MacLeod" suzmacleod@rogers.com skull25ca
Date: Mon Aug 20, 2007 4:19 am ((PDT))

I wanted to know the groups thoughts on this. I have 2 Frenchies and
have been feeding them raw for almost 2 years now. THings are great
except with Joey - my boy. He has never been a "good" eater, like his
sister, who can tear apart a RMB with no problem. Often when I feed
bone, Joey is unable to digest a couple of pieces and throws them up
with bile. I have been feeding them lotsa meat as well as ground
chicken necks, just for the summer months, as there are WAY too many
flies and hornets here. Once we go back inside, when it gets cooler I
will start feeding them on their blanket inside with RMB's again.
Anyhow, I was making turkey and I had to cut the ribs of, so I hand fed
them as they were a bit small, and thats what Joey puked up. Any
suggestions? Kate had no problem.
Suz Kate and Joey

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2a. Re: So. Cal.
Posted by: "Alison Maffett" sweettuth23@yahoo.com sweettuth23
Date: Mon Aug 20, 2007 4:19 am ((PDT))

Here's a group that I am going to join next month: http://www.socalbarf.com/SoCalBARF/Welcome.html

Alison

----- Original Message ----
From: Joe Rodriguez <jrod.65@gmail.com>

if there are any local raw feeders that can recommend butchers or co-ops in southern california (organic?), specifically the south bay, downey, Whittier or as far south as orange county.

__._,_._

____________________________________________________________________________________
Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.

http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/

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2b. Re: So. Cal.
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Mon Aug 20, 2007 4:48 am ((PDT))

In a message dated 8/19/2007 7:01:59 PM Pacific Standard Time,
jrod.65@gmail.com writes:

I am going to start my dogs on the raw diet this weekend and was wondering if
there are any local raw feeders that can recommend butchers or co-ops in
southern california (organic?), specifically the south bay, downey, Whittier or as
far south as orange county.

Joe,
Socalbarf is a buying group, NOT a co-op.. go to socalbarf.com and read the
FAQ page and set up your paypal account, the prices can NOT be beat..

Catherine R.

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3a. Re: prey blood
Posted by: "harrynala" michelle@synertex.co.uk harrynala
Date: Mon Aug 20, 2007 4:20 am ((PDT))

> Have any of you thought of the blood that is missing when fed prey
> to your dog? I mean unless dogs are capturing live prey and allowed
> to kill and eat it as a whole unadultered meal, wouldn't they miss
> out on all the blood that is pumping through?

I had always understood that the blood made up a considerable portion
of their calcium intake, so I too am very interested in any information
about this!

Michelle

Messages in this topic (4)
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3b. prey blood
Posted by: "siamesekittens4u@aol.com" siamesekittens4u@aol.com jae91254
Date: Mon Aug 20, 2007 4:49 am ((PDT))

I have started raising rabbits for my dogs. My son bops them, and they are
fed whole to my dogs, not bled out. They eat the whole animal, insides, blood
and all.
Joyce

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3c. Re: prey blood
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Aug 20, 2007 4:51 am ((PDT))

Loretta Luja <luja@...> wrote:
>
> I saw tubs of "pork blood" at the market that got me
> thinking. Have any of you thought of the blood that
> is missing when fed prey to your dog?
*****
Yes, it's been discussed before. You might want to search the list
archives for previous comments. Here's how to join Yahoogroups so
you can access the Rawfeeding message archives:
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/join

I mean unless
> dogs are capturing live prey and allowed to kill and
> eat it as a whole unadultered meal, wouldn't they miss
> out on all the blood that is pumping through?
*****
It is possible to feed dead prey without bleeding the animal out. If
you have the opportunity to buy whole chickens, rabbits, rodents,
even whole ruminants like kids, lambs, calves and deer, you get the
blood, the guts, the whole schmear.

If you can't, you can feed bloody liver and spleen, and sometimes
heart. And if you can't find a source for nice bloody organs, you
can still feed raw knowing it's a far cry better than kibble.

> Maybe it's not an important element but I do remember
> butchering my own raised rabbits and watching game
> being butchered, and there is quite a blood loss.
*****
Yeah. If you can feed whole, unbutchered prey, all the better. If
you cannot, you do what you can. Perhaps buying some jellied blood
is an answer. I dunno. I've never lost any sleep over it.
Chris O

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4a. Re: Nature's Variety Raw Food Diets
Posted by: "Laura Atkinson" llatkinson@gmail.com lauraatkinson2002
Date: Mon Aug 20, 2007 4:24 am ((PDT))

No kidding. I imagine Chris O would be kinda tough and gamey...surely
there are younger, less aged meats out there to try :-)

On 8/17/07, costrowski75 <Chriso75@aol.com> wrote:
> "Tracy" <tracy.ramey@...> wrote:
> > Would you accept my gratitude if you were the animal being slaughtered
> > for food? [:-/]
> *****
> What a bizarre question. Why would you--a vegan I assume--be
> slaughtering me for food?
> Chris O
>
>

--
Laura A
Kaos Siberians http://www.kaossiberians.com

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5. Duck and organ question
Posted by: "mariola9000" mariola9000@yahoo.com mariola9000
Date: Mon Aug 20, 2007 4:25 am ((PDT))

Hi,

today I went to an oriental market and bought some "goodies" for my
dog (raw fed for the last four months). So far she has had chicken,
turkey, pork, beef and eggs - both chicken and quail. Few days ago I
introduced her successfully to lamb. I also feed her some organs
(chicken heart and gizzards, pork heart, chicken/beef liver), but
still less than required (runny poops otherwise).

My question is about the duck. It is a whole bird - with the head
still attached(eyes, beak), feet. I think it would be fun to watch the
dog eat the whole duck,but since this will be a new protein, should I
not divide the bird? And how? Into four parts? My dog eats around 14
oz./a day. The duck weighs about 4.5 #, but it is quite bony (which is
really disappointing). Should I leave the head attached to one part?
Are duck bones as hard as turkey or chicken? I also bought a package
of duck gizzards - should I perhaps start with gizzards and only when
she is able to eat those serve a bigger piece of the duck?

Do gizzards give dogs soft stool, or is it just liver? What about
kidney? Should I also be careful with it and introduce it slowly?

What is a pork melt? Is it worth buying? What about a pork stomach?
Valuable?

They also had beef lip, among other things. Is it as fatty as tongue?
Do you feed it as muscle - meal or snack?

It was quite fascinating to see and buy these organs, but
unfortunately my husband does not share in my excitement. On the
contrary, he finds it disgusting. I guess I have to be happy he
accepts raw feeding.

Cheers to all,

Mariola

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6. Cornish Hens
Posted by: "Brandi Bryant" bbryant573@gmail.com bbryant573
Date: Mon Aug 20, 2007 4:25 am ((PDT))

I read the posts about feeding a cornish hen to her full grown boxer and I
have a question. I bought my 4-5 month GS puppy Cornish Hens b/c I thought
that maybe it would be just enough for her to eat. Am I wrong?

Thanks

--
Brandi
Bartlesville, Ok
www.obediencetrainingclubofbartlesville.com

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7. begining
Posted by: "michelle bracy" michellebracy1@verizon.net michellebracy
Date: Mon Aug 20, 2007 4:26 am ((PDT))

hi there i am new to all of this i have a 14 yr old aussie german shep mix who has begun having dogestive problems and some bowel control and the vet has left me with a very bland diet of rice we have been doing this at least a week thurs we went to the vet again recd three pills and instructions to only give rice today is day 2 of feeding just brown rice and a bit of brothso she will eat it so far so good when can i start to add ground turkey and other things as i am concerned with her condition and the other is the i have a pup that i have been feeding the same as it is difficult to feed kibble to 1 and not the other please help with tips i am open too any suggestions thank you michelle
in NY ARPH REP FH michellebracy1@verizon.net

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8a. Re: Cod liver oil
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Aug 20, 2007 4:28 am ((PDT))

"gevan1a" <gevans@...> wrote:
>
What's the problem with cod liver oil.
> I've found it hard to find fish oil of any sort that's not flavored
> with lemon or orange.
*****
Cod liver oil is low in Omega 3 fatty acids, and quite high in
vitamins A and D, both of which are stored in fat, not "rinsed away"
in the urine as vitamin C is. In order to get a useful dose of Omega
3, it's possible to produce an unhealthy accumulation of A and D. If
you live where your dogs get little direct sun, you may want to
consider CLO; otherwise, keep looking for plain, unflavored fish body
oil or salmon oil. Herring oil and other "marine" oils will also
serve you well.

I have no problem finding fish body oil or salmon oil capsules
(although lately--boo hiss--the've started adding Omega 6 and
sometimes even Omega 9 to the product). If you cannot find straight,
unflavored liquid, use capsules.

There are a number of recommended liquid salmon oils available online.
Chris O

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9.1. Re: New to raw
Posted by: "linoleum5017" linoleum5017@yahoo.com linoleum5017
Date: Mon Aug 20, 2007 4:31 am ((PDT))

Dear smh0413,

Does not sound like you are doing anything wrong. Your dog's
conditions seem within the reasonable range of beginning rawfeeding.
It may take a week or so for her system to adjust to the new diet.
Give it all a little 'grace' during the week of surgery, as that will
likely present an interruption in the feeding regimen. After you
begin to see more consistent stools, then proceed according to the
list recommendations.

Let us know how the surgery goes,
Lynne

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "smh0413" <smh0413@...> wrote:
> I have just been feeding her chicken leg quarters for now -
>
> But her poop is a little runny,

> Also she at times will throw up just a VERY tiny amount of slivered
> bone.
> What am I doing wrong, and what do I need to change?
> she is having surgery this coming Tuesday (21st). I want her to
be as strong as possible going into it,

> Can anyone give me some suggestions?

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10a. Re: chicken qtrs
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Mon Aug 20, 2007 4:32 am ((PDT))

In a message dated 8/18/2007 9:03:58 AM Pacific Standard Time,
pattyannreidster@gmail.com writes:

So chicken qtrs are good to start with? I understand I have to make my own
decisions, but was told (after I bought them) they are not enough nutrition
for my dogs. Perhaps in the sense that they alone with never making a
change was not good. If they are acceptable, I will continue with them for
the next week or so. Then I will change to split breasts. When can
I/should I give chicken liver?

Patty,

chicken quarters are ok.. not ideal, but you're just starting out.. things
workout as time goes on.

changing from chicken quarters to split breasts is not introducing a new type
of meat, it's just adding a different part of the chicken.. if you want to do
that, it's easier and cheaper to buy whole chickens and whack them into meal
sized hunks, and then you get the organs inside too and you can just feed them
with the hunks of the chicken.

after the dogs are adjusted to chicken.. then it's time to change animals..
like turkey, pork, beef, duck, lamb, goat.. introduce a new meat each week or
two weeks.. build to as much variety as you can (within reason.. don't break
the bank for variety purposes).

Catherine R.

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11. chicken backs question
Posted by: "Susan DeLeon" labonita_persians@yahoo.com labonita_persians
Date: Mon Aug 20, 2007 4:33 am ((PDT))

Are chicken backs and chicken frames the same thing? If so, do chicken
backs have more meat?

Sue

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12. Brought home my first foster - How do I get him back in shape?
Posted by: "kaebruney" kaebruney@yahoo.com kaebruney
Date: Mon Aug 20, 2007 4:34 am ((PDT))

hey everyone!

I've just become a new foster mommy and am so excited to be giving a
dog a new lease on love and a fur-ever home!

I am caring for an AmBull male, about 65lbs. he's supposedly 2yrs, but
his legs seems a little short to me (like he's still developing).
Maybe it was poor nutrition during his youth. ~ here's a link to his
picture here so you can see him:
http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=8844297 ~

Anyway, he's a little stinky, a little skinny and has yellowing teeth.
A PERFECT raw candidate!! *big smiles*

I was wondering what you guys would recommend for a big dog who needs
to gain about 10lbs and has really dull coat. I mean, besides the
regular chicken, beef hearts, liver, kidney, sweetbreads.

Anything I should look to include? I do give the dogs eggs once or
twice a week, but so far no one will take fish.

thanks for the advice!

Kae

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13a. Re: need advice about starting pup back on raw
Posted by: "cmhausrath" cmhausrath@yahoo.com cmhausrath
Date: Mon Aug 20, 2007 4:39 am ((PDT))

"nat_franc" <chickenchucker@...> wrote:

> How does
> > the vet explain this sudden emergence of problems?
> *****i was on a long trip, visitng family, long story short, i had a
> financial crisis and had to feed him canned pedigree food that was on
> hand at a relatives house for 3 days.

Natalie, I feel like I recognize you & your pup (such a great name!)
from another list -- didn't he have parvo in July? How does this
correlate with the onset of these other issues? Or did the parvo just
never clear up, and now the vet is looking for additional explanations?

I'm beyond my depth with helping, really -- I have only the one dog,
and (knock on wood) he's healthy as a horse -- but thorough information
really is helpful for those list members who *can* help with advice.
If I'm mistaken about the parvo, sorry!

-- sandy & griffin

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14a. Re: found goodies at Asian market
Posted by: "kaebruney" kaebruney@yahoo.com kaebruney
Date: Mon Aug 20, 2007 4:43 am ((PDT))

-
> Has anyone besides me get so wrapped up in the
> search for dog food that they forget to buy human
> food?LOL Husband says we get the duck!! :-\
>
> Loretta L
>

I find myself doing it all the time. I get tons of dog meat options,
but very few human. I'm elated to find that so many of stocking beef
hearts, sweetbreads and kidneys now I think I get a little carried
away! *lol*

I do have one question though... in a response it was said the pig
tongue was fatty. Does this apply to beef tongue as well? I've heard a
lot about beef tongue being the next best big muscle to beef heart
meat, so I took the dive and bought some for *yikes!* $2.49 a lb!!! Is
this going to be a fatty meal?

thanks for sharing!

Kae

P.S - If there is anyone in Houston (galleria/north of city area) that
is interested in buying beef hearts in bulk, please email me. I'd love
to take advantage of the wholesale pricing at $.59 lb for a 40lb case!

thanks!!!!!!

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15. Re: [MDTN_BARF] venison question
Posted by: "betty hinson" b_hinson@sbcglobal.net paps4jesus
Date: Mon Aug 20, 2007 4:44 am ((PDT))

hey Linda that is a find Betty with the paps from arkansas
Betty Hinson
b_hinson@sbcglobal.net
I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me Phil 4:13

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16.1. What can I feed?
Posted by: "akitaprincess04" akitaprincess@msn.com akitaprincess04
Date: Mon Aug 20, 2007 4:44 am ((PDT))

Are pork necks okay? And also, what eles can i feed? Boneless chicken?
like chicken breasts and thighs?

thank you... Ashley Smith (Akitaprincess)

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17. Re: treats on a raw diet
Posted by: "Michael Moore" m-tak@sbcglobal.net annemoore2000
Date: Mon Aug 20, 2007 4:45 am ((PDT))

>>My question is about what are good treats I can give to my pup. i have
been giving mostly commercial stuff like milkbones and such mostly for
training and when he goes in his crate whenever I need to leave
somewhere. I have roated pig ears. Are they any good or are they the
same as rawhide.<<

E & Reagan -- treats truly do comprise a very small portion of our dogs' diet if we're doing things correctly. Coming from someone who does a *lot* of trainng with her dogs, don't worry about treats -- use whatever you like! It's not a big issue -- you're using tiny amounts (I'm guessing/hoping), and even a Milk-Bone isn't likely to be a problem for a rawfed dog.
If you're really into natural treats -- there are even commercial products that are 100% salmon, for example, or you could buy/order freeze dried chicken hearts (a real 'treasure' in my dogs' opinons!). Personally, I use the above, plus string cheese (another hit here), hot dogs nuked with a bit of garlic, as well as several commercial products if I'm being lazy, or don't want a particularly high value treat.
Concentrate on feeding a quality, meat-based raw diet and the treats are just a blip on the radar.
Ask questions when you have them! The good folks on this list are willing and able to help!!

-- Anne Moore (M-Tak PWC and one goofy GSD rescue and a silly Golden rescue) in NW Ohio

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18a. Broken Teeth
Posted by: "Purity" purity21_99@yahoo.com purity21_99
Date: Mon Aug 20, 2007 4:48 am ((PDT))

Arghhhhh! I just checked my dog's teeth tonight and both of his upper
fourth premolars are chipped to where I can see pink. So off to the
vet I go. His teeth are otherwise healthy so I'm sure a root canal
will probably be the way to go. We regularly check his teeth out, so
this seems to have been done pretty recently.

We don't feed him the large marrow bones or beef knuckle/leg bones.
He'll sometimes get the back ribs, but mostly he gets pigs feet and
turkey necks (with added meat of course) and chicken quarters. Are the
pig's feet too hard for him? Are the ribs the culprit?

And after the root canal will be be able to chew on bones again? or
will we have to limit his bone munching and add bone meal? This will
probably be an expensive procedure and I'd like to avoid having him
re-break his teeth. Thanks in advance.

Rachel

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19.1. Re: new to raw feeding
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Mon Aug 20, 2007 4:50 am ((PDT))

>> I would like to start feeding my dogs raw food. Can anyone give me a list of foods to
> use?

Hi,certainly. But it is just me..I don't feed weight bearing animal's bone like knuckle bones.

And you decide what protin source you like to use and feed accordingly.

Chicken Whole/organ(liver)/gizzard/hearts/Feet(snack or treat)

Turkey Whole/Neck/heart/gizzard/tail

Pheasant Whole/giblet that comes with whole birds

Duck Whole/giblet that comes with whole bird/Neck/feet
(not introduced to my dog yet tho)

Cornish hen Whole

Beef Boneless meat/Ribs/Neck/Tail/Organs (liver/kidney)/Heart/Tongue/Cheek/
Green Tripe

Pork Boneless meat/Ribs/Neck/Tail/Organ(liver/kidney)/heart/feet/Tongue/
ear (snack or treat)

Lamb Boneless meat/Ribs/Neck/heart/Tongue

Goat Boneless Meat/Neck/Ribs/ Heart

Mutton Boneless meat/meat with bone

Elk Boneless Meat/Ribs/Tongue/heart

Buffalo Boneless meat/Ribs/heart/Tongue

Fish Perch,Mahi-Mahi,Halibut,Flounder,Snapper,RocketFish,Shark,Squid,Scallop,Shrimp,
Clam(can),crab(can),Salmon(can),Mackerral(can),Sardine(can) etc...


You still can feed Quail, Emu,kangaroo,rabbit,ostrich etc etc but I did not put them into menu.

yassy

---------------------------------
Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.

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20. Need reassurance
Posted by: "Brandi Bryant" bbryant573@gmail.com bbryant573
Date: Mon Aug 20, 2007 4:51 am ((PDT))

OK - I started my dogs on RAW about 2 weeks ago. I have 4 dogs: 3 GSD, and
one Whippet Mix

I gave my 2 adult male GSD - chicken quarters - 2 in the morning and 2 in
the evening? I gave my 4 mo. GS chicken thighs 2 morning and evening and my
whippet mix I started her out on thighs 2 to 3 morning and evening - I have
given her chicken quarters - I did this for about a week - went back to the
store to get more chicken - I noticed that they had packaged a whole chicken
already cut up so I got all of them I could - got more thighs and drumstick
(still have those) so I fed Max and Duke half of the whole chicken - Duke
didn't get all of the half because he needs to loose weight so I started
cutting him back. Well, I ran out of meat and payday wasn't here yet, so
there were a coupld of days that they didn't get anything. And now I now
that with RAW you don't have to feed them everyday - so payday come and I
went to the store: I got several whole chickens, I got several cornish hens
because I thought these would be good for the GS puppy, got some chicken
quarters, and some ground Turkey - and I thought if they were doing good
with that I could start out with some pork so I got some pork loin top loin
boneless, and some Pork Shoulder Blade.

Last night they had mostly chicken quarters because the whole chickens and
the cornish hens were frozen. Everyone ate without any problems, but Duke
my GS had diaherra - kinda slimy but no bone in it - so this morning I
finish cutting up the whole chicken - here's what I fed them this
afternoon: I gave half of a cornish hen to the youngest puppy and some
ground turkey, I have the other half of the cornish hen and some ground
turkey to my Whippet mix and I cut a whole chicken in half and then cut each
half into halves - I gave Max a whole half of chicken and just a tad bit of
ground turkey. I gave a half of a half to Duke and later tonight he will
get the other half, which by the way he seems to be doing better! Duke
needs to lose weight and Max needs to gain weight. Can I feed these guys
just once a day. Or feed the puppies twice and the big dogs once a day?
Does it sound that I'm feeding the right amount, because I don't think I'm
and I'm afraid that i'm going to run out of meat before my next payday. And
I know it's alright to skip a couple of days in between meals, right? But
is that alright to do with puppies? And I'm thinking that maybe next week,
I can start adding some of that pork that I bought?

And what can I put on the meat to help with dry skin? Anything?

Thanks for all your suggestions,
Brandi
Oklahoma
Max, Duke, Roxie and Catorie

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21. rawfeeding cats?
Posted by: "Becky Brooks (Marsh)" kidcreations1@yahoo.com kidcreations1
Date: Mon Aug 20, 2007 4:52 am ((PDT))

Is there a sister site regarding rawfeeding cats? Becky

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22. Test
Posted by: "Brandi Bryant" bbryant573@gmail.com bbryant573
Date: Mon Aug 20, 2007 4:56 am ((PDT))

I've sent in a couple of emails - one I think subject Website and one today
that was subject: Need assurance

I haven't seen them come through and just wondered if maybe I was doing
something wrong and the moderators weren't allowing to be seen by the list,
but I would be getting an email from them telling me what was wrong with my
post wouldn't I? Or if the moderators were just slammed with posts.

Just wanted to know what was up, or if it was just me!

--
Brandi
Bartlesville, Ok
www.obediencetrainingclubofbartlesville.com

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