[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11934

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Switching to raw and.....
From: Kathleen, KC Scottish Terriers
1b. Re: Switching to raw and.....
From: costrowski75
1c. Re: Switching to raw and.....
From: Denise Strother
1d. Re: Switching to raw and.....
From: swilken61
1e. Re: Switching to raw and.....
From: Kathleen, KC Scottish Terriers

2a. Re: Stinky chicken
From: natgs
2b. Re: Stinky chicken
From: Andrea
2c. Re: Stinky chicken
From: Denise Strother
2d. Re: Stinky chicken
From: Yasuko herron
2e. Re: Stinky chicken
From: Halo Harris

3a. Re: Need reassurance
From: costrowski75
3b. Re: Need reassurance
From: Brandi Bryant
3c. Re: Need reassurance
From: Olga

4.1. Re: New to raw
From: smh0413

5a. Re: How do I go about buying Raw
From: costrowski75
5b. Re: How do I go about buying Raw
From: ive_anbio10
5c. Re: How do I go about buying Raw
From: Olga

6a. Re: Duck and organ question
From: costrowski75

7a. Re: FISH
From: jrtsnabc
7b. Re: FISH
From: costrowski75

8a. Re: venison question
From: Yasuko herron
8b. Re: venison question
From: Linda H. Gower

9a. Re: Is PrePackaged raw ok for camping
From: Yasuko herron
9b. Re: Is PrePackaged raw ok for camping
From: Halo Harris

10a. Re: need more bone
From: Laura Atkinson

Messages
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1a. Switching to raw and.....
Posted by: "Kathleen, KC Scottish Terriers" litha@lycos.com litha13
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2007 7:08 am ((PDT))

Hi Folks, a person asked an interesting question on another list which
was, has anyone ever had to switch off the raw diet for a good sound
reason? She said that a member from her breed specific group claims
there can be reasons dogs should not eat raw. I do not buy this and have
never had issues with my crew or even the many rescues I switched, just
thought I would ask here to confirm my thinking.

Kathleen, KC Scottish Terriers
Naturally Reared Scottish Terriers, http://www.scottiesrus.com
<http://www.scottiesrus.com/>
To Learn more about Natural Rearing Join:

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AuNaturelK9s/
<../../../../AuNaturelK9s/>

Vist our Natural Rearing website at,

http://www.aunaturelk9s.org <http://www.aunaturelk9s.org/>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (5)
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1b. Re: Switching to raw and.....
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2007 9:01 am ((PDT))

"Kathleen, KC Scottish Terriers" <litha@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Folks, a person asked an interesting question on another list which
> was, has anyone ever had to switch off the raw diet for a good sound
> reason? She said that a member from her breed specific group claims
> there can be reasons dogs should not eat raw.
*****
I don't think there's justification for "should not". Every critter
should eat a species appropriate diet. But I suspect sometimes feeding
raw might take the human an amount of time, money, persistence,
creativity, and/or commitment that cannot be accomodated. Sometime you
just can't get there from here. Life sometimes gets in the way of what
we'd rather do.

Perhaps it would be more useful for the human to admit to a lack of
knowledge or patience or other human failings than to put the blame on
the dog. It may not reflect well on one to say "I didn't have the time
to learn how" but it's honest, and that kind of thinking leaves the
door open for future opportunities.

Chris O

Messages in this topic (5)
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1c. Re: Switching to raw and.....
Posted by: "Denise Strother" denisestrother@yahoo.com denisestrother
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2007 9:27 am ((PDT))

Hey Kathleen,
I definately confirm your thinking. I have worked with dogs a good
deal of my life; as a vet asst and tech, animal control officer,
Kennel Manager for shelter, and now in dog daycare. I've also done
lots of fostering. I've experienced many breeds, in many situations
other than just as a pet owner. And I must say that I am shocked that
you, a Scottie owner would dare to not claim this as a sign of the
obvious, superior, heightened evolution of your breeds digestive
system. You better change your thinking Missy. I learned of my
ignorance in espousing similar views. People commented on how my
Chihuahuas were not nervous, yappy, high-strung, ankle-biters like all
of the ones they knew. Foolishly, I told them that that's not how
Chihuahuas are, that's how people make them. Welll, over the years, I
have come to understand that the preponderance of evidence says that I
am dead wrong. My dogs are the freaks and the others are just
exhibiting correct temperment for the breed and any breed standards on
temperment that are not in agreement with their dogs actions are not
very accurate standards. Or something. My advice is keep these
outlandish, hypothetical ideas to yourself or at least be careful who
you speak them around. You don't want to look down your driveway and
see the villagers with the torches and pitchforks, do you? Denise

Hi Folks, a person asked an interesting question on another list which
was, has anyone ever had to switch off the raw diet for a good sound
reason? She said that a member from her breed specific group claims
there can be reasons dogs should not eat raw. I do not buy this and
have never had issues with my crew or even the many rescues I
switched, just thought I would ask here to confirm my thinking.
Kathleen

Messages in this topic (5)
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1d. Re: Switching to raw and.....
Posted by: "swilken61" powrfemme@aol.com swilken61
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:34 am ((PDT))

I can only go by my own experience. I was told not to feed my
pancreatitis girl raw, that is was too hard to digest. I did it anyway,
and she is doing fine.

Also, I was told that my UTI girl should only eat a special science
diet formula to control the UTIs, again, I opted for raw, so far
without reocurrences of the UTI.

So although there are some out there that do beleive dogs with some
conditions shouldn't eat raw, in my case, they have done well on it.

stephany

Messages in this topic (5)
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1e. Re: Switching to raw and.....
Posted by: "Kathleen, KC Scottish Terriers" litha@lycos.com litha13
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:36 am ((PDT))

Ok Denise, rotflmao! It took a minute but then I got it! Getting feeble
minded in my ole age, lol.
You know I saw the torches down at the bottom of my driveway last week,
wondered what they were! LOL Fortunately our driveway is very long and
very steep only a climber could get up here!

Funny thing is my Scotties because of their diet (raw, prey model) and
being Naturally Reared have been accused of having over active prey
drive. Hmmm, imagine, a Terrier wanting to hunt down prey. Geese, what
am I breeding, healthy, vibrant, unbelievably intelligent, bold, heavy
muscled Scotties.

I have a almost 15 year old who had a stroke about two weeks ago, not to
worry she is doing well. Anyway when I took her to the vet to see what
we could do, he looked into her mouth and was stunned! Taz at almost 15,
not only has ALL her teeth, but they are white, gums strong and that jaw
still, could take a finger off. He asked when her last dental was and I
laughingly said, oh everyday. Of course he was puzzled and I just smiled
and said, "Taz has never had a dental, it is called feeding a species
appropriate diet, Raw Meaty Bones"!

Kathleen, KC Scottish Terriers
Naturally Reared Scottish Terriers, http://www.scottiesrus.com
<http://www.scottiesrus.com/>
To Learn more about Natural Rearing Join:

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AuNaturelK9s/
<../../../../../AuNaturelK9s/>

Vist our Natural Rearing website at,

http://www.aunaturelk9s.org <http://www.aunaturelk9s.org/>

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Denise Strother"
<denisestrother@...> wrote:
>
> Hey Kathleen,
> I definately confirm your thinking. I have worked with dogs a good
> deal of my life; as a vet asst and tech, animal control officer,
> Kennel Manager for shelter, and now in dog daycare. I've also done
> lots of fostering. I've experienced many breeds, in many situations
> other than just as a pet owner. And I must say that I am shocked that
> you, a Scottie owner would dare to not claim this as a sign of the
> obvious, superior, heightened evolution of your breeds digestive
> system. You better change your thinking Missy. I learned of my
> ignorance in espousing similar views. People commented on how my
> Chihuahuas were not nervous, yappy, high-strung, ankle-biters like all
> of the ones they knew. Foolishly, I told them that that's not how
> Chihuahuas are, that's how people make them. Welll, over the years, I
> have come to understand that the preponderance of evidence says that I
> am dead wrong. My dogs are the freaks and the others are just
> exhibiting correct temperment for the breed and any breed standards on
> temperment that are not in agreement with their dogs actions are not
> very accurate standards. Or something. My advice is keep these
> outlandish, hypothetical ideas to yourself or at least be careful who
> you speak them around. You don't want to look down your driveway and
> see the villagers with the torches and pitchforks, do you? Denise
>
> Hi Folks, a person asked an interesting question on another list which
> was, has anyone ever had to switch off the raw diet for a good sound
> reason? She said that a member from her breed specific group claims
> there can be reasons dogs should not eat raw. I do not buy this and
> have never had issues with my crew or even the many rescues I
> switched, just thought I would ask here to confirm my thinking.
> Kathleen
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (5)
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2a. Re: Stinky chicken
Posted by: "natgs" natgs@yahoo.com natgs
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2007 7:31 am ((PDT))

Hi All.

In the past, I've given my dog stinky chicken. He had no problems with
it. Isn't in in the dogs/wolves' nature to hide their food for later?
I can't imagine it smelling good after sitting in a hole somewhere for
a while. Perhaps it varies from dog to dog. I'd try it once to see if
the dog can tolerate it.

Natalya

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Ivette Casiano <ivettecasiano@...>
wrote:
>
> <<I purchased a stew hen for like $1.88 and it was sealed well
> > (vaccuum packed) and when I got home it smelt like rotting. I
> > couldn't stand the smell to take it out of the bag so I tossed it
> > out instead of giving it to my dog. Should I have still gave it to
> > him?>>
>
> I purchased a few whole chickens on sale once and a couple of them
were stinky but I fed it to my dog anyway because I'd read here that
some people's dogs eat stinky chicken and they're ok. They were also
vacuum packed. I suspect that it was the cause of his vomitting that
evening then having diarrhea for the next four days until the chicken
was gone.

Messages in this topic (6)
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2b. Re: Stinky chicken
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2007 7:54 am ((PDT))

I'm all for feeding stinky food, don't get me wrong. But the bacteria
that makes buried food stinky is much different from the bacteria that
works on meat in an airtight container. It's been a while since I took
a biology class, so I don't remember all the differences except that
they produce different kinds of waste. Dogs are well adapted to
dealing with aerobic (buried in the back yard) bacteria, but not so
much with anerobic (sealed in a bag) bacteria.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "natgs" <natgs@...> wrote:
> Isn't in in the dogs/wolves' nature to hide their food for later?
> I can't imagine it smelling good after sitting in a hole somewhere
> for a while.

Messages in this topic (6)
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2c. Re: Stinky chicken
Posted by: "Denise Strother" denisestrother@yahoo.com denisestrother
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2007 9:28 am ((PDT))

Please don't tell my dogs this. I never give them the opportunity to
bury food and come back to it. Even if I did, the fire ants would
never allow them to retrieve it, and I'll be damned if I'm gonna feed
fire ants. That being said, I have opened a 10lb bag of leg quarters
or 2 whole beef hearts at the dog daycare on Friday or Thursday and
come back Monday and fed ripe and slightly slimy leg quarters/beef
hearts til they run out. I don't remember all of the details about
aerobic and anerobic bacteria either. But, I do know I'm not posting
asking about my dog's loose bowels, vomiting, etc from it. Denise

I'm all for feeding stinky food, don't get me wrong. But the bacteria
that makes buried food stinky is much different from the bacteria that
works on meat in an airtight container. It's been a while since I
took a biology class, so I don't remember all the differences except
that they produce different kinds of waste. Dogs are well adapted to
dealing with aerobic (buried in the back yard) bacteria, but not so
much with anerobic (sealed in a bag) bacteria.
Andrea

Messages in this topic (6)
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2d. Re: Stinky chicken
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2007 9:29 am ((PDT))

Hi. On another list,I have read that someone opened up Corned Beef Brisket and it smelled stinky and this lady was asking if it is ok to feed to dog.

Somebody suggested that take it back to store and exchanged it,so I think she did but same smell. Then,some other person said that sometimes,store put it on rifrigirated section while the products needed to be keep frozen.

So,the lady afterall,tosssed the meat and did not shop at the store anymore I think.

So,if you were not comfortable,it is possible that you can go back to store and exchange the package.

yassy

---------------------------------
Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows.
Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
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2e. Re: Stinky chicken
Posted by: "Halo Harris" h.halo@yahoo.com h.halo
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2007 11:26 am ((PDT))

That happened to me with a lamb shank. I opened it up and it stunk to high heaven. I brought it back no way was I chancing it with a pup and got a full refund.
Halo

Yasuko herron <sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi. On another list,I have read that someone opened up Corned Beef Brisket and it smelled stinky and this lady was asking if it is ok to feed to dog.

Somebody suggested that take it back to store and exchanged it,so I think she did but same smell. Then,some other person said that sometimes,store put it on rifrigirated section while the products needed to be keep frozen.

Messages in this topic (6)
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3a. Re: Need reassurance
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2007 7:38 am ((PDT))

Halo Harris <h.halo@...> wrote:
>
> Sorry for being bluntg butg raw or no raw, if I
> couldn't afford to feed my dogs everyday on a healthy
> raw diet I just wouldn't feed raw.
*****
Perhaps it might be more productive to light a candle than to curse the
darkness.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (8)
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3b. Re: Need reassurance
Posted by: "Brandi Bryant" bbryant573@gmail.com bbryant573
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:34 am ((PDT))

>>>>Sorry for being bluntg butg raw or no raw, if I
couldn't afford to feed my dogs everyday on a healthy
raw diet I just wouldn't feed raw. This is not
healthy no matter how you look at it and my heart goes
out to any dog that has to be kept hungry because
their owner can't afford to feed them. I don't agree
that it is okay to let dogs go two days without meals
on a regular basis because of money. You ask if this
is okay for puppies to fast and the answer is no. I am
sorry but no its not acceptable to let puppies go
hungry.<<<<

Halo,
Excuse me but are you saying that you've never had a hard time
financially???? And as far as my financial concerns they're getting better,
so would you rather me keep buying that cr*p as you all call it or would you
rather me TRY to do better by my dogs??? And I know it's not good to not
feed my dogs everyday but if I can't afford RAW what makes you think that I
could afford to feed them $19.00 worth of the cr*p in the bag....

I'm sorry I'm going off like this but give me some freakin credit for at
least trying to improve my dogs...HEALTH!!! You are the first person that
has given me negative attitude everybody ELSE on this list has given me
GREAT advice and ENCOURAGEMENT...and they may not agree with what I'm doing
but I would like to think they know that I'm least TRYING!!!! I need
reassurance not an lecture!!!

Brandi
Bartlesville, Ok
www.obediencetrainingclubofbartlesville.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (8)
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3c. Re: Need reassurance
Posted by: "Olga" olga.drozd@gmail.com olga_d
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2007 11:45 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Brandi Bryant" <bbryant573@...> wrote:
> Well, I ran out of meat and payday wasn't here yet, so
> there were a coupld of days that they didn't get anything. And now
> I now
> that with RAW you don't have to feed them everyday

It's true that you don't need to feed every day with raw. But I would
do one thing at a time - you're just introducing the raw diet, so get
them settled on it first. Then experiment with gorge-and-fast
feeding. I wouldn't be skipping whole days right now, especially not
two days in a row, and definitely not for a puppy. Once they have
some experience with raw, you can make some meals bigger and other
meals smaller, and then a really big meal followed by no meal. At
least that's the way I'd do it. :)

> Or feed the puppies twice and the big dogs once a day?

This is the plan I would go with. Feed the puppies twice a day and
don't let them skip meals.

> Does it sound that I'm feeding the right amount, because I don't
> think I'm
> and I'm afraid that i'm going to run out of meat before my next
> payday.

Not much I can do to help you till the next pay day. But have a look
at the prices at the store to figure out which items are less
expensive. Hopefully by budgeting your doggie food dollars you won't
have to run out again. I try to keep at least a few days worth of
food in my freezer, but recently we moved and of course I had to empty
it out. Chicken leg quarters are typically affordable, and I always
keep an eye on sales.

Feeding amounts should be 2-3% of their ideal adult weight, and off
the top of my head a half chicken for a GSD might be pretty close
(this is for one whole day). That depends on the size of the dog and
the chicken, of course. ;)

> And what can I put on the meat to help with dry skin? Anything?

Just get them on the raw diet, and give a few weeks for their tummies
to settle. Once they are not having loose stools and seem to be
digesting their food well, I'd look into some Omega 3 (fish) oil.

Olga

Messages in this topic (8)
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4.1. Re: New to raw
Posted by: "smh0413" smh0413@yahoo.com smh0413
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2007 7:55 am ((PDT))

Thank-you everyone for your help. I took the skin off the
chicken
> and we will see how that does. She has LOTS of energy. I will try
> the chicken breasts after surgery - should they be cooked or raw
ritht after surgery? I was not sure how she would handle all meat
with no bone - will that make her too "runny", last thing I need after
surgery is to deal with that.
I know we will get through this transition
> period, I would not have been so concerned if it had not been for
the cruciate
> surgery.
>
> I am NOT doing the TPLO surgery - it was not one that my vet
> recommends nor does - as a matter of fact he cautioned against it,
too many dogs that he has dealt with, with bad results from it. I had
done some research and already was
> against going that way - but thank you very much for the input.
>
> Thanks Everyone for the help
> Sharon

Messages in this topic (36)
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5a. Re: How do I go about buying Raw
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2007 8:08 am ((PDT))

Halo Harris <h.halo@...> wrote:
>
> Sorry, I don't know if its a good thing to buy meat
> that is not deemed edible for human consumption. I'd
> be afraid your going to make your dogs sick especially
> if they are not use to raw. I am not sure how prices
> are in Ontario but where I live your not going to buy
> very much raw for 70.00 a month.
*****
Halo,you are just a bucket of good news, aren't you!

It's not only okay to feed meat not meant for human consumption,
people here (and on other lists) do so all time time. Deer trim is
probably the single most coveted "not for human consumption" meat.
Much of if not most of a deer turns into "not for human consumption"
meat, the loss of which would be a terrible thing. It is also common
to seek out expired meat, "less desirable" organs and body parts,
freezer-burned meat, and of course other trims like beef, lamb, emu
and fish. Using this "waste" is one of the ways we can feed our dogs
well for less.

Seventy dollars will buy a month's worth of appropriate, healthy food
if one shops wisely. It's not always a walk in the park, but it can
be done and it IS done--all the time by hundreds and hundreds of
smart raw feeders.

Messages in this topic (8)
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5b. Re: How do I go about buying Raw
Posted by: "ive_anbio10" ive_anbio10@yahoo.ca ive_anbio10
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2007 9:27 am ((PDT))

He is a large Yellow lab and is a gulper. I think he would need large
pieces of raw that he has to rip the meat off and consume otherwise
he would swallow everything. He is 90lbs, but is taller than the
traditional canadian bred labs (he stands out at shows, not always in
a positive way)

Ive

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Cathy Tweeddale Mitchell"
<duckndogs@...> wrote:
>
> On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 04:09:36 -0000, ive_anbio10 wrote:
>
> > Because of his size, I do need meat that is
> >large enough to teach him how to use his teeth, but dont know how
to
> >go about getting raw this size.
>
> What breed and what size is your dog?
>
>
> Cathy
>
>
>
> Duckndogs Labrador Retrievers
> Guaranteed to Retrieve Your Heart!
> www.duckndogs.net
>

Messages in this topic (8)
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5c. Re: How do I go about buying Raw
Posted by: "Olga" olga.drozd@gmail.com olga_d
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2007 12:09 pm ((PDT))

Hi Ive,

Not sure where in Ontario you are, but I'm around Toronto and can
share some of the sources I use to buy food for my dogs. I buy stuff
for under $2/lb and my two dogs at 75 and 40 lbs eat about 2.5-3 lbs
per day.

In order to stick to a budget of $70/month you have a little under
$2.50/day to spend. If 90 lbs is a good weight for your dog (and
there are way too many overweight labs out there, so I hope you keep
him slim!) you should be feeding probably around 2% of his weight per
day, so just a little under 2 lbs or thereabouts. So it seems that to
stick right to your budget you would need to purchase food for an
*average* of something like $1.25/lb.

Of course, your actual cost will be lower because you will be reducing
the vet visit frequency. I know that for me, personally, I've so far
avoided at least two dental cleanings (at a price of $300+ each) plus
all those "digestive upsets" we used to get.

If you live in a bigger city, or are close to one, there are usually a
number of stores to choose from and often good prices can be found.
If you're in a more rural setting, I'd be making friends with farmers,
and visiting the farmer's market to find some good buys. The "usual"
stores around here that have good prices are Food Basics, Price
Chopper, No Frills, and if you have any oriental markets/groceries
nearby they often have some really great things!

Hope that helps!

Olga

Messages in this topic (8)
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6a. Re: Duck and organ question
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2007 8:40 am ((PDT))

"mariola9000" <mariola9000@...> wrote:
>> The butcher at the counter said that pork melt is intestines, but I
> did not think he really knew.I did not buy it though, because my dog
> still is not able to tolerate the organs. Maybe next time.
*****
He was wrong.

Pork spleen seems to be very benign. While I don't recommend you
haul off and feed a full meal of it to start, you should be able to
add it in small amounts to a meal without causing digestive
distress. It strikes me as less volatile than any beef organ, even
heart.

> The stomach did not looked bleached, but I guess since I do not know
> for sure, I will not be getting it there.
*****
It was. Cleaned-for-human-consumption pork stomach tissue is not how
I would choose to spend my doggiedollars. The only place you're
likely to fine uncleaned pork stomach would be the processing
plant...or direct from a farmer. And even then, why would you want
to? Pig is not a ruminant, it is an omnivore like us and its stomach
is very much like ours. The digesta would not be useful to your
dog. And the tissue itself offers no special virtues.

> BTW - how do I access archives? I seem to have problems with my
> searches - either I am doing it wrong, or I expect too much.
*****
Try different words, try doing an advanced search for words in the
text instead of subject line words. Try searching by author instead
of topic.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (6)
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7a. Re: FISH
Posted by: "jrtsnabc" jrtsnabc@yahoo.com jrtsnabc
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2007 9:27 am ((PDT))

Well, all this talk about fish on the Truth About Vaccines list, wild caught, farm-raised, Atlantic, Pacific, vaccinated, etc, has got me wondering about the fish I feed... again...

I was told that the fish I order (salmon, mackerel, sardines) is all from the Atlantic. It was my understanding that this fish is lower in mercury. Now I'm wondering what it is I'm really getting and how safe it is to feed on a regular basis. Also, the salmon I feed is pink, not gray, which means it has dye injected.

Where can we get real, fresh-caught fish? And, Judy, what is "blue fish"?

I'm so confused!!!

Thanks,

Katherine and the JRTs & BCs
Windsor, CO

----- Original Message ----
From: "rigleyman@aol.com" <rigleyman@aol.com>
To: TruthAboutVaccines@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 6:51:43 AM
Subject: [TAV] Re: Another reason to avoid farm-raised fish - vaccines

Karen -

Most places say "wild-caught" or "farm-raised" . It makes it easy. You can

also ask the fish guy.

Most Atlantic Salmon is raised in cages in the Pacific NW waters. How is

that for WRONG! Wild caught atlantic salmon does exist but hard to find.

There is still wild supplies of fish but of course they are dwindling and

I've now seen several specials on various seals and sea lions that talk about

them starving as they can't find enough food in the ocean. Really sad.

Try blue fish - it is good if you like a oily strong fish - yum on the grill.

In regards to canned fish - if you like canned salmon or tuna - you can find

those that are caught by hand on a line - taste better and you know they

didn't kill tons of other critters in the nets while fishing. And are of course

wild-caught.

No vaccines in my fish!!!! But then again - can I make that statement -

what is in our oceans?

Judy

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Messages in this topic (2)
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7b. Re: FISH
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:26 am ((PDT))

jrtsnabc <jrtsnabc@...> wrote:

> I was told that the fish I order (salmon, mackerel, sardines) is
all from the Atlantic. It was my understanding that this fish is
lower in mercury. Now I'm wondering what it is I'm really getting
and how safe it is to feed on a regular basis. Also, the salmon I
feed is pink, not gray, which means it has dye injected.
>
> Where can we get real, fresh-caught fish? And, Judy, what is "blue
fish"?

*****
My goodness what a lot of untrimmed stuff on this post! Please
remember to trim off every list bit that does not contribute to
understanding your message.

Sardines and mackerel (as well as anchovies and herring and menhaden)
are small fish that grow fast and die small in cold marine waters.
They are less exposed to, and have less time to amass, accumulated
toxins, including mercury. They are wild caught and are USUALLY
sustainably harvested, although mehaden seems to be suffering right
now from overfishing (the virtues of Omega 3 have not gone unnoticed
by the animal feed industry). The Atlantic is their normal territory.

What we know as "atlantic salmon" is all farmed. It's farmed in the
US, Canada, Chile and Norway in the Atlantic; it's farmed in Canada
and the US in the Pacific. Atlantic salmon (aka farmed) will not
contain accumulating mercury but it can have PCPs and other industry
pollutants. It does not harbor the parasite that causes "salmon
poisoning".

This salmon is fed grain-based chow with meds and supplements added.
Interestingly, wild salmon from the Arctic Ocean and Bering Sea (the
really choice good stuff) is included in the fish chow to add--you
guessed it--Omega 3 fatty acids that the species inappropriate diet
cannot provide. What's wrong with this picture, hey?

So. Sardines, mackerel, herring, anchovy and related fishes from the
Atlantic Ocean are wild caught and are fine, except insofar as they
might be overharvested. Wild caught salmon from the Arctic Ocean and
Bering Sea is lovely, but it is indeed overharvested.

Atlantic salmon is farmed, regardless of which ocean it actually is
farmed in.

Here are some links to keep you busy:
http://www.mbayaq.org/cr/seafoodwatch.asp
http://www.oceansalive.org/eat.cfm?subnav=bestandworst
http://www.nrdc.org/health/effects/mercury/guide.asp
http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~frf/sea-mehg.html
http://dictionary.laborlawtalk.com/Atlantic_salmon
Chris O

Messages in this topic (2)
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8a. Re: venison question
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2007 9:30 am ((PDT))

>One caution - deer are somewhat in the 'large' category, so weight-bearing bones like legs, >or 'soup bones,' are probably not appropriate. I let BoJ eat the meat, then trade him >another cut for the bone that I know wouldn't be good for him.

Hi,Linda. I am currently feeding Elk(Venison) to my dog and my dog doing quite good on it.
Only bone she gets to eat from Elk is Rib bone and it seemed somewhat harder than pork rib bone but not as hard as Beef rib bone.She ate all.

This is just a thought but the one you thought be fatty is maybe Venison heart? Because Elk herat had some fat cap attached when I was bagging to zip bag. My dog torelate Elk heart very good and she dive in to the meal.

One time when I fed rib,she did protesting not to eat rib of Elk but she seems no problems with boneless Elk or Elk hearts.I have no idea what the protest was about..

Maybe she just needed to get used to the flavor? No idea..

Anyway,only meat type my dog had prob with poop go,it is Lamb.So far,other meat seemed to be torelated very well.

yassy

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Messages in this topic (6)
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8b. Re: venison question
Posted by: "Linda H. Gower" pudeltime@bellsouth.net pudeltime
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:34 am ((PDT))

Thanks Yassy. I'm hoping to get to try the venison well enough prior to deer season, so that I can take advantage of hunting season at the nearby butcher's. This meat was packaged for human consumption, so I doubt its heart, but who knows. I'll have a better idea once I thaw it. The soup bones very well could be cow, so again, I'll not know until I thaw it.

Thanks for the input. If I play my cards right, I should be able to get a fair amount of venison this fall.

Linda

Linda H. Gower
Mid TN
Lance (SP) AX, AXJ, Delta Pet Partner
Chase, (MP) OA, AXJ
In memory of Cocoa (who started it all)'70-'89
Duncan, UD, NA, NAJ, TDI great little buddy '89-'04
Bonzai, CDX, MX, MXJ, Delta Pet Partner - best partner I could dream for '97-'04
RUN FOR FUN!!!!

Messages in this topic (6)
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9a. Re: Is PrePackaged raw ok for camping
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2007 9:37 am ((PDT))

.> I think I am just going to do what you suggested and bring mackrael, sardines, and some >of my own raw in zip lock bags.

Hi,Halo. I don't know how long you be camping but if it were not enough to feed,due longer period of camping, you also maybe can check out the store near your site like Food Lion or something(grocery store),and get Chicken legg quarter which usually is quite cheap and feed chicken leg quarter some days and keep it in cooler with ice and some days canned fish and maybe some days feed what you brought and I think it is good enough to feed.

With that way,at least 1 week,you be ok ..I think.

I have never done camping with dog so, I am talking from just my ideas so,maybe not realstic but I hope this helps you bit

yassy

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Messages in this topic (15)
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9b. Re: Is PrePackaged raw ok for camping
Posted by: "Halo Harris" h.halo@yahoo.com h.halo
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:56 am ((PDT))

Hi Yassy:
Should be a store nearby the campground. But I will go prepared just in case.
Thanks a bunch
Halo

Yasuko herron <sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com> wrote:
.> I think I am just going to do what you suggested and bring mackrael, sardines, and some >of my own raw in zip lock bags.

Hi,Halo. I don't know how long you be camping but if it were not enough to feed,due longer period of camping, you also maybe can check out the store

Messages in this topic (15)
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10a. Re: need more bone
Posted by: "Laura Atkinson" llatkinson@gmail.com lauraatkinson2002
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:00 am ((PDT))

As a puppy, Ry was born in a kibble feeding, vaccinate anything that
breathes household. As he grew up, he had to have his anal glands
expressed a few times. Instead of continuing to do that regularly (I
had NO desire to learn to do it myself), I started feeding him a
couple of really BIG and a little heavier on bone than normal meals in
a row.

Over time, the anal glands started working as designed and I don't
know when I stopped the practice of double feeding those big meals.
It just didn't need doing anymore.

And, by the way, those problems? They were when I first started and
faithfully fed veggies. So they weren't the "fix" for the problem.

Tweak the diet to fit the dog and his needs. Veggies only "hurt" if
they're taking the place of meat/bones/organs. If they're snacks or
treats and the dogs enjoy them, they're no big deal. But don't give
them superpowers. :-)

On 8/20/07, verrelli <ktverrelli@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> Sandee
> before when I was feeding her a pre-fab frozen (northwest natural)
> and chicken necks - she wasn't fat and didn't have an issue with her
> glands - one month on all meat and she has put on weigh (that's my
> problem due to not regulating the size) but also she has developed
> the anal problem.
>
> I know they don't NEED veggie but don't know if it would hurt
>
> Kellie

--
Laura A
Kaos Siberians http://www.kaossiberians.com
Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so.
Bertrand Russell

Messages in this topic (10)
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