Feed Pets Raw Food: [rawfeeding] Digest Number 11935

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: How do I go about buying Raw
From: Olga
1b. Re: How do I go about buying Raw
From: gevan1a
1c. Re: How do I go about buying Raw
From: ive_anbio10
1d. Re: How do I go about buying Raw
From: Olga

2.1. Re: New to raw
From: Giselle

3a. Re: Switching to raw and.....
From: chaparraltrail

4a. Re: FISH
From: jrtsnabc

5a. Vet wants a low protein diet
From: cooniefish@aol.com
5b. Re: Vet wants a low protein diet
From: chaparraltrail
5c. Re: Vet wants a low protein diet
From: Sandee Lee
5d. Re: Vet wants a low protein diet
From: jrtsnabc
5e. Re: Vet wants a low protein diet
From: Lauren
5f. Re: Vet wants a low protein diet
From: cooniefish@aol.com
5g. Re: Vet wants a low protein diet
From: cooniefish@aol.com
5h. Re: Vet wants a low protein diet
From: chaparraltrail
5i. Re: Vet wants a low protein diet
From: chaparraltrail
5j. Re: Vet wants a low protein diet
From: cooniefish@aol.com

6a. Re: accessing archives (was: Duck and organ question)
From: Laurie Swanson

7a. Re: Need reassurance
From: Loretta Luja
7b. Re: Need reassurance
From: Giselle

8a. Re: Stinky chicken
From: Giselle

9a. shopping the ads
From: lhmcmaken
9b. Re: shopping the ads
From: Maggie Smith

10a. Re: Duck and organ question
From: mariola9000

11a. Back to raw
From: Ivette Casiano

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Re: How do I go about buying Raw
Posted by: "Olga" olga.drozd@gmail.com olga_d
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2007 12:10 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "costrowski75" <Chriso75@...> wrote:
> Halo,you are just a bucket of good news, aren't you!

Oh Chris, how I've missed you! :D

It's good to be back.

Olga

Messages in this topic (12)
________________________________________________________________________

1b. Re: How do I go about buying Raw
Posted by: "gevan1a" gevans@sycomtech.com gevan1a
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2007 1:04 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Olga" <olga.drozd@...> wrote:

So it seems that to
> stick right to your budget you would need to purchase food for an
> *average* of something like $1.25/lb.
>

Check the phone book for chicken wholesalers - I buy leg quarters for
less than .50 per pound, but have to buy 40 pound cases. If you don't
have a wholesaler - try asking for bulk prices on chicken at the
market. Be careful though as a lot of the less expensive chicken I'm
seeing lately at the supermarket is enhanced. Same goes for pork and
some beef.

-George

Messages in this topic (12)
________________________________________________________________________

1c. Re: How do I go about buying Raw
Posted by: "ive_anbio10" ive_anbio10@yahoo.ca ive_anbio10
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2007 1:19 pm ((PDT))

....Its odd because whenever we go to a grosher, I always look for
meat that is going to reach its expiration date, and usually it is
marked down, but i've had a bad experience with this. I bought a stew
hen at F**d B***cs and ended up throwing it out because it smelt like
rotting when I opened the bag. It was one day until its expiration
date, so it still should have been good, but it smelt so bad that i
couldn't give it to my dog. It was in an air tight bag, and was meant
for humans since I bought it at the local groshier. Would anyone have
actually given it to their dog? I have mixed opionions about this. On
one hand, I realize that dogs are similar to wolves, and wolf would
have probably ate an animal that was killed recently, but I wouldn't
want my dog to get sick. Anyone have any suggestions about odd
smelling meat? To feed or not to feed is my question?

Ive

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Olga" <olga.drozd@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Ive,
>
> Not sure where in Ontario you are, but I'm around Toronto and can
> share some of the sources I use to buy food for my dogs. I buy
stuff
> for under $2/lb and my two dogs at 75 and 40 lbs eat about 2.5-3 lbs
> per day.
>
> In order to stick to a budget of $70/month you have a little under
> $2.50/day to spend. If 90 lbs is a good weight for your dog (and
> there are way too many overweight labs out there, so I hope you keep
> him slim!) you should be feeding probably around 2% of his weight
per
> day, so just a little under 2 lbs or thereabouts. So it seems that
to
> stick right to your budget you would need to purchase food for an
> *average* of something like $1.25/lb.
>
> Of course, your actual cost will be lower because you will be
reducing
> the vet visit frequency. I know that for me, personally, I've so
far
> avoided at least two dental cleanings (at a price of $300+ each)
plus
> all those "digestive upsets" we used to get.
>
> If you live in a bigger city, or are close to one, there are
usually a
> number of stores to choose from and often good prices can be found.
> If you're in a more rural setting, I'd be making friends with
farmers,
> and visiting the farmer's market to find some good buys.
The "usual"
> stores around here that have good prices are Food Basics, Price
> Chopper, No Frills, and if you have any oriental markets/groceries
> nearby they often have some really great things!
>
> Hope that helps!
>
> Olga
>

Messages in this topic (12)
________________________________________________________________________

1d. Re: How do I go about buying Raw
Posted by: "Olga" olga.drozd@gmail.com olga_d
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2007 2:28 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "ive_anbio10" <ive_anbio10@...> wrote:
> I bought a stew
> hen at F**d B***cs and ended up throwing it out because it smelt like
> rotting when I opened the bag. It was one day until its expiration
> date, so it still should have been good, but it smelt so bad that i
> couldn't give it to my dog.

Honestly, if it smelled like death, I wouldn't feed it. If it smelled
like not-quite-fresh chicken, I would feed it. If it hadn't reached
it's expiration date yet, I would take it back to the store for a refund.

I must say I haven't had much luck with the "reduced" meat bins.
Usually the stuff I see there is $8/lb reduced to $4/lb, so still out
of my price range. I do look in the flyers carefully each week. If
you have a No Frills nearby, I know the one here is having a sale on
pork rib slabs for $1.66/lb. Not that cheap, but it's cheap for pork
ribs and I feed it with some $0.89/lb pork kidney and it's all good.

Olga

Messages in this topic (12)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

2.1. Re: New to raw
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2007 12:47 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Sharon!
YVW!
Cooking meat changes the nutrients and makes it HARDER to digest.

All meat, no bone just before and right after surgery is sop. You can
start adding meals with a little soft bone a few days to a week post
op. Gradually increase the amount of bone until it is back to normal
proportions.

Stick with the bland and usually well tolerated meat, chicken - no
need for variety right now. Keep the portions a bit smaller just
before and for a few days after, too. Half size meals and a little
more frequent, 2-3 meals a day. I'm assuming she will be on crate rest
and limited exercise for some time after the surgery during her
recovery, so you might want to keep her meal size a little smaller
than usual post op, until her activity level returns to normal.

You might want to look into some healthy chewies, like bully sticks
and stuffed Kongs to offer her to keep her busy during the 'down time'.
TC
Giselle

> Thank-you everyone for your help. I took the skin off the
> chicken
> > and we will see how that does. She has LOTS of energy. I will try
> > the chicken breasts after surgery - should they be cooked or raw
> right after surgery? I was not sure how she would handle all meat
> with no bone - will that make her too "runny", last thing I need after
> surgery is to deal with that.
> I know we will get through this transition
> > period, I would not have been so concerned if it had not been for
> the cruciate
> > surgery.
> >
> > I am NOT doing the TPLO surgery - it was not one that my vet
> > recommends nor does - as a matter of fact he cautioned against it,
> too many dogs that he has dealt with, with bad results from it. I had
> done some research and already was
> > against going that way - but thank you very much for the input.
> >
> > Thanks Everyone for the help
> > Sharon
>

Messages in this topic (37)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

3a. Re: Switching to raw and.....
Posted by: "chaparraltrail" chaparraltrail@yahoo.com chaparraltrail
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2007 1:07 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "costrowski75" <Chriso75@...> wrote:
>
> "Kathleen, KC Scottish Terriers" <litha@> wrote:
> > has anyone ever had to switch off the raw diet for a good sound
> > reason?

> Every critter should eat a species appropriate diet.

Generally true, but there are instances in all species where the
natural species appropriate diet would be a death sentence. We have a
friend in a wheelchair, because his body could not properly digest one
of the amino acids in proteins. Had they discovered this a year
earlier, he would have full funtion. Had they discovered it much
later, he might not have survived. Certainly such exceeding rare
conditions occur in the canine world as well. The solution would most
likely be a food that is even more unnatural than kibble, but which
might allow tha dog to survive and thrive.

But that's a pretty far afield hypothetical, and porbably most "sound
reasons" are because the vet or pet owner had reservations in the
first place, or lacked time. "Dog has fleas? Try Science Diet! He digs
holes in the back yard? Maybe it has something to do with what you
feed him!" Yeah, right...

Still, there are legitimate conditions that might make it appropriate
to feed a diet that is not species appropriate.

> Perhaps it would be more useful for the human to admit to a lack of
> knowledge or patience or other human failings than to put the blame
on
> the dog.

Nobody is blaming the dog. Or the human (in the case of a truly sound
reason, as opposed to human failings). Sometimes random things happen,
bad things, and it just isn't anyone's fault. You do the best you can,
with the options available.

Lori

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

4a. Re: FISH
Posted by: "jrtsnabc" jrtsnabc@yahoo.com jrtsnabc
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2007 1:18 pm ((PDT))

Thanks much, Chris!

Answered most of my questions, as usual. We certainly live in a very bizarre world the way we feed our food and pet animals, don't we!

Sorry about the untrimmed post, group. I know is was long...

Katherine

----- Original Message ----
From: costrowski75 <Chriso75@AOL.COM>
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 11:24:09 AM
Subject: [rawfeeding] Re: FISH
Sardines and mackerel (as well as anchovies and herring and menhaden)

are small fish that grow fast and die small in cold marine waters.

They are less exposed to, and have less time to amass, accumulated

toxins, including mercury. They are wild caught and are USUALLY

sustainably harvested, although mehaden seems to be suffering right

now from overfishing (the virtues of Omega 3 have not gone unnoticed

by the animal feed industry). The Atlantic is their normal territory.

____________________________________________________________________________________
Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

5a. Vet wants a low protein diet
Posted by: "cooniefish@aol.com" cooniefish@aol.com luckypuppy197136
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2007 1:18 pm ((PDT))

Hi. I have a had that is in liver failure. She is on raw, but the vet wants
to switch her to a low protein hills prescription diet. I'd rather keep her
on raw, but he insists this will stress her liver. Any thoughts??

Thanks
Samantha

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________

5b. Re: Vet wants a low protein diet
Posted by: "chaparraltrail" chaparraltrail@yahoo.com chaparraltrail
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2007 1:43 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, cooniefish@... wrote:
>
> Hi. I have a had that is in liver failure. She is on raw, but the
vet wants
> to switch her to a low protein hills prescription diet. I'd rather
keep her
> on raw, but he insists this will stress her liver. Any thoughts??

Do you have a vet in your area who supports raw feeding, so you can
get a second opinion, from a professional? You certainly do not want
to harm your dog, but if your vet is not knowledgeable about raw, he
may not know of other healthy options, which might include keeping
your dog on raw.

Lori

Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________

5c. Re: Vet wants a low protein diet
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2007 2:05 pm ((PDT))

Samantha,

A low protein diet is never a good idea as it stresses the organs even
further. Carbohydrates are difficult to digest, produce more waste and will
have a detrimental effect on the liver and kidneys.

What you need is easily digested, good quality protein which of course is
raw. You may need to reduce the fat content, but other than that, for the
health of your pet, by all means continue your raw diet.

BTW, raw is high moisture, not high protein.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: <cooniefish@aol.com>

> Hi. I have a had that is in liver failure. She is on raw, but the vet
wants
> to switch her to a low protein hills prescription diet. I'd rather keep
her
> on raw, but he insists this will stress her liver. Any thoughts??

Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________

5d. Re: Vet wants a low protein diet
Posted by: "jrtsnabc" jrtsnabc@yahoo.com jrtsnabc
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2007 2:28 pm ((PDT))

Hi Samantha,

Yeah! My thoughts are that you're in luck! If she's already on raw, she's on a good, moderately-low protein diet! Once you take away the bone, fat, and water, a raw diet is only about 10-12% protein. (Someone please correct me if I'm off here.) Plus, she has the benefit of being on raw! Also, I wouldn't touch Hill's with... well... any pole, regardless of how long it is.

Because most vets don't research raw diets, they just "assume" that it must be high in protein because it's all meat (which, of course, it's not). The fact is that it's not high in protein and your vet most likely just doesn't want you feeding a raw diet (and he wants to make money selling you his crap-in-a-bag).

Good luck,

Katherine and the JRTs & BCs
Windsor, CO

----- Original Message ----
From: "cooniefish@aol.com" <cooniefish@aol.com>
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 1:50:32 PM
Subject: [rawfeeding] Vet wants a low protein diet

Hi. I have a had that is in liver failure. She is on raw, but the vet wants

to switch her to a low protein hills prescription diet. I'd rather keep her

on raw, but he insists this will stress her liver. Any thoughts??

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________

5e. Re: Vet wants a low protein diet
Posted by: "Lauren" lfunaiol@yahoo.com lfunaiol
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2007 2:28 pm ((PDT))

Hi Samantha,

A raw diet is not as high in protein as some believe. It's really
only about 20% protein on average. I had a dog with severe hepatitis
last year. Despite what my vet was recommending (cooked chicken,
rice, and cottage cheese), I fed her raw chicken and fish while she
was recovering. She did great and pulled through the hepatitis well.

Lauren Funaiole

Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________

5f. Re: Vet wants a low protein diet
Posted by: "cooniefish@aol.com" cooniefish@aol.com luckypuppy197136
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2007 2:29 pm ((PDT))

Unfortunately, I don't. I am researching like crazy! I am learning about
branched chain amino acids vs. aromatic amino acids. Beef seems like the way to
go, plus this dog seems to be craving beef, so we'll see! I was just hoping
for some opinions,

Thanks!
Samantha

In a message dated 8/21/2007 3:45:18 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
chaparraltrail@yahoo.com writes:

--- In _rawfeeding@yahoogrorawfeed_ (mailto:rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com) ,
cooniefish@., coo
>
> Hi. I have a had that is in liver failure. She is on raw, but the
vet wants
> to switch her to a low protein hills prescription diet. I'd rather
keep her
> on raw, but he insists this will stress her liver. Any thoughts??

Lori

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________

5g. Re: Vet wants a low protein diet
Posted by: "cooniefish@aol.com" cooniefish@aol.com luckypuppy197136
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2007 2:29 pm ((PDT))

This is what I thought! Thank you for confirming. For a dog with such awful
blood work, she has surprisingly few symptoms. I credit this to the raw. No
vomiting or diarrhea. She seems active. The vet can't believe it. I really
hope she pulls through,

Thanks
Samantha

In a message dated 8/21/2007 4:07:31 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
rlee@plix.com writes:

Samantha,

A low protein diet is never a good idea as it stresses the organs even
further. Carbohydrates are difficult to digest, produce more waste and will
have a detrimental effect on the liver and kidneys.

BTW, raw is high moisture, not high protein.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________

5h. Re: Vet wants a low protein diet
Posted by: "chaparraltrail" chaparraltrail@yahoo.com chaparraltrail
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2007 3:21 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, cooniefish@... wrote:
>
> Unfortunately, I don't. I am researching like crazy!

How frustrating! This is an instance where you really need to talk
to a competent professional. Renal disease can be deadly, and
certainly for a human, reduced protein, and even reduced liquid, is
appropriate.

But dogs are not humans, so it is impossible to know whether your
vet can give good advice about raw. Despite posts to the contrary,
raw is high in both fat and protein, something that is generally
good for a dog. It may still be good for your dog, even with kidney
problems, due to the mitigating benefits of raw. But if your vet is
unaware, s/he may not give you correct advice, one way or the other.

Same with us on this list. Sometimes we can get so "into" our
philosophies and beliefs, we might pretend to know what is best,
when we haven't a clue, medically speaking.

I just hope that, somehow, you cross paths with a competent vet who
also strongly supports raw feeding. That's where I think you will
find the best answers.

Lori
~who wishes the best for you and your dog

Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________

5i. Re: Vet wants a low protein diet
Posted by: "chaparraltrail" chaparraltrail@yahoo.com chaparraltrail
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2007 3:22 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, jrtsnabc <jrtsnabc@...> wrote:
> If she's already on raw, she's on a good, moderately-low protein
diet! Once you take away the bone, fat, and water, a raw diet is only
about 10-12% protein. (Someone please correct me if I'm off here.)

Your percentages are probably correct based on weight, but not based
on the percentage of calories that comes from protein. A raw diet is
in fact higher in protein and lower in carbohydrate than the typical
kibble or canned food diet. There is a mathematical problem in
factoring in the water, when we do not take into account that a raw
fed dog will consume less water from the bowl, because it is already
contained in his food. Unless we include the weight or volume of the
water consumed, for both the raw fed and commercially fed dog, we will
have comparisons that do not truly compare anything.

This does not address the underlying question about what is best for
the dog, but comparing wet food (raw) to dry, and counting water as
part of the percentages...just doesn't make sense.

Lori

Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________

5j. Re: Vet wants a low protein diet
Posted by: "cooniefish@aol.com" cooniefish@aol.com luckypuppy197136
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2007 3:24 pm ((PDT))

Hi! You are the first person I have met that also had a dog with hepatitis.
I would love to speak to you more, (On or off list) about your experience and
what you fed your dog and what medicines (if any) you used. Please get back
to me, it would be much appreciated!

Thanks
Samantha

In a message dated 8/21/2007 4:30:16 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
lfunaiol@yahoo.com writes:

Hi Samantha,

Lauren Funaiole

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

6a. Re: accessing archives (was: Duck and organ question)
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2007 1:39 pm ((PDT))

Mariola,

Click on the main page:

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/

Then click on "messages" and a search box will be at the top of the
page. You can type in any keyword there or also click on "advanced"
next to the box and get more options for advanced searching. I know
when Chris gives these instructions, she says to join the group, but
I thought everyone that posts is a member of the group already?
Maybe I'm missing something. If you have trouble, or more questions,
let us know.

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "mariola9000" <mariola9000@...>
wrote:
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Laurie Swanson" <laurie@> wrote:

> BTW - how do I access archives? I seem to have problems with my
> searches - either I am doing it wrong, or I expect too much.

Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

7a. Re: Need reassurance
Posted by: "Loretta Luja" luja@comcast.net desertwilite
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2007 1:40 pm ((PDT))

Hi Brandi,

I'm new to this too and also on a budget. Every week,
when the new grocery adds come out, I browse them
online first to see who has the best gonga deals. Then
I do the shopping there if it isn't too far to go. (Gas prices,
GEEZ) Anyway, I've been able to find whole chickens
at .57/lb one week, chicken quarters at .69/lb, and then
breast quarters for .89/lb. I know I will need more variety
with time, but for now I take advantage of the Grocer's
"price war" thing.

Hang in there and hope that helps.

Loretta L.

._,___

Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________

7b. Re: Need reassurance
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2007 3:15 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Brandi!
Unexpected financial problems are just that, unexpected.
Its easy to say that you should have planned better, put money aside,
or not have dogs if you can't afford to feed them, but RL happens.
I'd rather live in my van than live without my dog or feed kibble. ; )

Anyway, have you seen this list? It might help you make some good
connections for cheaper meats and stretching dog food dollars. You can
also check out craigslist and Freecycle for a free or cheap freezer to
be able to stock up against those lean times.

> where do you look for meat suppliers?

Permission to repost from Lis

1) look up meat and poultry packers, processors, and distributors in
the yellow pages. You may be able to get great prices from them if
you order in bulk, and/or they may have a discount outlet that is
open to the public.
2) I get many of my best deals in Asian/Oriental markets. I've also
heard that Hispanic and Caribbean markets have great variety and
prices too.
3) you may be able to join a barter group.
4) google breeders (i.e. rabbit, goat, lamb, etc.) who are in your
geographic area. They may have culls they want to get rid of, or
lower prices overall.
5) look up bulk suppliers and frozen bulk foods in your yellow pages.
6) if you have a Chinatown nearby, definitely make a visit.
7) let your friends, relatives, and neighbors know you want any
freezer burn or old meat when they clean out their freezers, and tell
them to pass the word along.
8) if you belong to a church or social group, tell those members to
mention it to their friends and relatives as well.
9) see if there are any co-ops or meat buying groups near you. Check
on Yahoo, or google to see.
10) try Craigslist - it's amazing what you can get for free or cheap.
11) and I get meat and fish all the time (for free) through
Freecycle. Join multiple lists if there are a few close by.
12) some Wal-marts and some Costcos and some Sams Clubs have good
deals, but you may want to make sure it's not seasoned meat.
13) definitely watch the the flyers, and you can usually see the rest
of the flyers online (the ones that don't get delivered to your house,
but are only a short drive away).
14) *** hands down, the bulk of my best deals have been marked down
meat at regular grocery stores. They reduce it the day before it is
going to expire, and I go as early as I can to get it before it is
gone.
15) tell friends and relatives who hunt and fish that you want first
dibs on any body parts they don't. You can probably get at least the
organs and maybe the head. Also ask them to put you in touch with
their other friends who hunt and fish.
16) a great tip I learned here a while back â" some restaurants
throw out things they don't use, like the organs that come inside
whole poultry, or raw meat that falls on the floor. see if they'll
save them for you. Find somebody who knows somebody who works there.
17) farmer's markets are great, but pick and choose carefully for the
best bargains. and sometimes at the end of the day some vendors will
reduce their prices, cause they don't want to take it back with them.
18) some people contact taxidermists, who have no use for the meat.
19) find people on this list from your vicinity, and ask them where
they get their meat deals. Join other raw feeding lists (there are
many), and ask if there are other raw feeders in your area.
20) tell your butcher you want the meat that they would normally
throw out, that is almost out of date, that people ordered and didn't
pick up, stuff that was dropped on the floor, their freezer
cleanouts, and parts that don't sell (like trachea, lungs, spleen,
etc.). Some butchers will save their trim for you (once they get to
know you). Build a relationship with them first.
21) yes, roadkill works too (where it is legal). In some places you
can get your name on the list and get called when they have large
roadkill (like deer)
22) you can raise your own meat/poultry if you have the room
23) post a message in CarnivoreFeed-Supplier or CFS-Canada if you are
in North America:
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/CarnivoreFeed-Supplier/
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/CFS-Canada/
24) speak to local farmers
25) also look for heart, tongue, and gizzards which count as meat (as
opposed to organ) in the world of raw feeding, but are often cheaper
than other muscle meats
26) find somebody who knows somebody who works at the grocery store.
They can introduce you to the meat guy, who may become more willing
to save stuff for you or reduce items about to expire, once they know
you.
27) check the internet. Some suppliers have affordable prices, even
after shipping costs are calculated.

Lis

TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

<snip>
> Excuse me but are you saying that you've never had a hard time
> financially???? And as far as my financial concerns they're getting
better,
> so would you rather me keep buying that cr*p as you all call it or
would you
> rather me TRY to do better by my dogs??? And I know it's not good
to not
> feed my dogs everyday but if I can't afford RAW what makes you think
that I
> could afford to feed them $19.00 worth of the cr*p in the bag....
>
> I'm sorry I'm going off like this but give me some freakin credit for at
> least trying to improve my dogs...HEALTH!!! You are the first person
that
> has given me negative attitude everybody ELSE on this list has given me
> GREAT advice and ENCOURAGEMENT...and they may not agree with what
I'm doing
> but I would like to think they know that I'm least TRYING!!!! I need
> reassurance not an lecture!!!
>
> Brandi
> Bartlesville, Ok
> www.obediencetrainingclubofbartlesville.com
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

8a. Re: Stinky chicken
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2007 2:10 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Ivette!
If I purchased something like that, I'd double bag it, then
freeze it until I could return it to the store - no sense paying full
$$ for stinky meat.

I do feed 'aged' meat, however. ; ) When I take meat out of the
freezer to thaw in the fridge, its in plastic zippies with 1-4 meals
in them. I open the zippy and feed out of the open bag from the
fridge. Sometimes I have a few different bags with different meats in
them, and feed alternately out of each bag for several days. The meat
gets a bit smelly, but not really stinky.

When I feed Bea a pork shoulder or whole turkey as a gorge meal, she
never eats it all. She will eat a large amount, then I take it up and
wrap it loosely in butcher's paper or a cloth towel, and let her
'snack' off it for several days. Its already been in the fridge for a
couple days, thawing. She's quite a good self regulator, but maintains
at a 'fluffy' weight. I need to walk with her and exercise her more,
but I try to help get her weight down by feeding smaller meals at
other times. Anyway, the meat gets a bit dry on the outside and a
little stinky, but the inside of the hunk o' turkey or pork is often
pretty good smelling.

So, no I don't think that vacuum sealed or tightly plastic wrapped
stinky meat should be fed. But I do feed 'aged' loosely wrapped meat
from the fridge. Isn't that how they age steak and charge peeps an
exorbitant price for them?
http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/nutrition/DJ5968.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_aged_beef

I don't feed outside, and thus I eliminate the whole "Do I let my dog
bury food and eat it later?" Q from my life. ; )
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> <<I purchased a stew hen for like $1.88 and it was sealed well
> > (vacuum packed) and when I got home it smelt like rotting. I
> > couldn't stand the smell to take it out of the bag so I tossed it
> > out instead of giving it to my dog. Should I have still gave it to
> > him?>>
>
> I purchased a few whole chickens on sale once and a couple of them
were stinky but I fed it to my dog anyway because I'd read here that
some people's dogs eat stinky chicken and they're OK. They were also
vacuum packed. I suspect that it was the cause of his vomiting that
evening then having diarrhea for the next four days until the chicken
was gone. We ruled out everything else he had eaten and felt awful
that I had fed it to him instead of throwing it out or taking it back
to the store for putting meat like that out for human consumption.
> I'll never do that again.
>
>
> Ivette Casiano
> "Live for today, plan for tomorrow"

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

9a. shopping the ads
Posted by: "lhmcmaken" lhmcmaken@yahoo.com lhmcmaken
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2007 2:29 pm ((PDT))

so group!! i see where i can get country style ribs pork shoulder for
a buck a pound. that is a good price. is that something i want to
buy for my two danes? and yes, i am finding, week 4 now, that my dogs
are calmer. one has a skin condition that now is gone. so raw is
great. thanks.
lynda maude and franklin

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________

9b. Re: shopping the ads
Posted by: "Maggie Smith" redkeds@comcast.net redkeds1
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2007 3:21 pm ((PDT))

Albertson's in the Seattle area just put beef and pork ribs on sale
for 10 pounds for a dollar - I think the sale is either on now or
starts Wednesday. I just saw the flyer today, so not sure.

Maggie, Rufus and Oliver (Danes)
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "lhmcmaken" <lhmcmaken@...> wrote:
>
> so group!! i see where i can get country style ribs pork shoulder
for
> a buck a pound. that is a good price. is that something i want to
> buy for my two danes? and yes, i am finding, week 4 now, that my
dogs
> are calmer. one has a skin condition that now is gone. so raw is
> great. thanks.
> lynda maude and franklin
>

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

10a. Re: Duck and organ question
Posted by: "mariola9000" mariola9000@yahoo.com mariola9000
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2007 2:33 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "costrowski75" <Chriso75@...> wrote
>
> Pork spleen seems to be very benign. While I don't recommend you
> haul off and feed a full meal of it to start, you should be able to
> add it in small amounts to a meal without causing digestive
> distress. It strikes me as less volatile than any beef organ, even
> heart.

Chris,

In this case I will try the pork spleen (melt)sometime, but instead of
pork stomach,I will get the tripe, and only from a reputable source
only like greentripe.com. Thanks for explaining it to me.

>
The only place you're
> likely to fine uncleaned pork stomach would be the processing
> plant...or direct from a farmer. And even then, why would you want
> to? Pig is not a ruminant, it is an omnivore like us and its stomach
> is very much like ours. The digesta would not be useful to your
> dog. And the tissue itself offers no special virtues.
>

Good pointers.Will do.

Mariola
> Try different words, try doing an advanced search for words in the
> text instead of subject line words. Try searching by author instead
> of topic.
> Chris O
>

Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

11a. Back to raw
Posted by: "Ivette Casiano" ivettecasiano@yahoo.com ivettecasiano
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2007 3:24 pm ((PDT))

<<...Now with this gastric torsion...>>

What is a gastric torsion?

Ivette Casiano
"Live for today, plan for tomorrow"

---------------------------------
Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

All information on this list represents personal opinion only. By staying on this list, you agree to never hold anyone from this list or associated with this list liable for any information posted through this list. You agree to take personal responsibility for your learning, and for personal responsibility for what you feed yourself, your family, and your dogs, cats, ferrets, or any other animal that lives under your care. If you don't agree, please unsubscribe immediately.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/

<*> Your email settings:
Digest Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/join

(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:rawfeeding-normal@yahoogroups.com
mailto:rawfeeding-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
rawfeeding-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:

http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Feed Pets Raw Food

Tuesday, August 21, 2007

[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11935

0 Comments:

About Me

Previous Posts