[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11944

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: leaving bones with pup
From: Morledzep@aol.com
1b. Re: leaving bones with pup
From: ginny wilken

2a. Re: first raw meal this evening....
From: Sandee Lee
2b. Re: first raw meal this evening....
From: Morledzep@aol.com

3.1. Re: Vet wants a low protein diet
From: Linda Gower

4a. Infections and pancreatitis
From: ptmagi
4b. Re: Infections and pancreatitis
From: Giselle
4c. Re: Infections and pancreatitis
From: tottime47
4d. Re: Infections and pancreatitis
From: jmwise80
4e. Re: Infections and pancreatitis
From: Sandee Lee

5a. Hey y'all!
From: Dawn
5b. Re: Hey y'all!
From: Giselle

6a. Vet disagrees with raw
From: Ivette Casiano

7a. feeding heads/eating teeth
From: Laurie Swanson
7b. Re: feeding heads/eating teeth
From: costrowski75

8a. Re: Albertson's ribs price correction
From: Maggie Smith

9a. Re: Turkey legs
From: Alan & Andrea Southern
9b. Re: Turkey legs
From: cdhaik

10. Took the plunge--a few more questions
From: JoAnn Ehlinger

11a. Words of caution
From: Joseph
11b. Re: Words of caution
From: Morledzep@aol.com
11c. Re: Words of caution
From: Giselle

12a. Re: Newbie reassurance & questions
From: Olga

13. [Raw Feeding] Thank you for the encouragement and advice!!!
From: Brandi Bryant

14. Mammoth size knuckle bones?
From: Brandi Bryant

Messages
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1a. Re: leaving bones with pup
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Wed Aug 22, 2007 6:04 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 8/22/2007 3:50:08 PM Pacific Standard Time,
h.halo@yahoo.com writes:

I agree, I would not leave my dog alone with a recreational bone. Bones thaw
out and then can splinter depending on how strong the jaws are on the dog.

***edible RAW bones do NOT splinter and are not brittle. when the dogs
crunch them there may be some sharp edges, but they are not splinters.

COOKED bones are brittle and can splinter and can be dangerous.. these are
possibilities, not guarantees..

It is only common sense to be around and at least listen if not watch for
signs of distress when your dogs are eating something that can be stupidly eaten.
This list includes almost all bones, edible and otherwise.

Catherine R.

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Messages in this topic (6)
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1b. Re: leaving bones with pup
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Wed Aug 22, 2007 7:28 pm ((PDT))

On Aug 22, 2007, at 12:46 PM, Michael Moore wrote:

>
> Okay, this statement has been bothering me, so I'll comment --
> IMO, puppies and adult dogs for that matter, should be supervised
> when eating bones.
> Although few of the listers have ever had a problem, I think it
> makes sense to be "around" when bones are consumed, lest something
> happen that we might assist with. I've been rawfeeding for 6 yrs.,
> and even with the adults who have been rawfed that length of time,
> I still hang around to make sure all is well when they're fed.
> Perhaps that's just me, but to do otherwise feels irresponsible to me.
>
> -- Anne Moore (M-Tak PWC and one goofy GSD rescue and a silly
> Golden rescue) in NW Ohio

Nope, it's not just you, Anne! No way would I leave any dog alone
with ANY food; too many things can go wrong.

ginny and Tomo

All stunts performed without a net!

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Messages in this topic (6)
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2a. Re: first raw meal this evening....
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Wed Aug 22, 2007 6:11 pm ((PDT))

Hi Cori.

If anything is irritating to their system and not able to be digested, it
will come out one way or another....but that's not necessarily a bad thing,
so don't worry about it. Feeding frequency depends on your dogs....age
and health will dictate what they are able to handle.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "coriowen" <COwen98@aol.com>

I feed my 4 girls their first chicken "only" raw meal this evening and
I will start tomorrow at lunchtime with this from now on, because as I
understand they eat once a day, correct, not twice? Should I worry
about any of them possibly getting sick tonight if they had kibble
early this morning? I didn't know if I should have waited 24 hours
before feeding them raw and not feeding them kibble. I was told it was
ok, but know I am wondering if I will have any vomit or diarrehea from
any of them???

Messages in this topic (4)
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2b. Re: first raw meal this evening....
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Wed Aug 22, 2007 6:12 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 8/22/2007 4:28:23 PM Pacific Standard Time,
COwen98@aol.com writes:

didn't know if I should have waited 24 hours
before feeding them raw and not feeding them kibble. I was told it was
ok, but know I am wondering if I will have any vomit or diarrehea from
any of them???

Cori,

Loose stools for a day or three is common when there are major diet
changes... relax. Sometimes dogs vomit bile and bone bits when they are new to raw
also.. doesn't mean that your dogs will.. and it doesn't mean that it's a bad
thing if it does. It's just part of the adjusting process if these things
happen.

I personally would have fasted them for 24 hours before introducing raw, but
that's a personal choice.. it's not necessary, and there is no reason to
expect anything other than normal reactions to dietary changes.

Catherine R.

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Messages in this topic (4)
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3.1. Re: Vet wants a low protein diet
Posted by: "Linda Gower" pudeltime@bellsouth.net pudeltime
Date: Wed Aug 22, 2007 6:33 pm ((PDT))

***MODERATOR'S NOTE: PLEASE REMEMBER TO TRIM YOUR MESSAGES.***

There is also a canineliver group in Yahoo groups. There were a lot of raw feeders on that list when I was on it several years back with a dog with liver issues. Like someone else mentioned, this dog craved beef - wouldn't touch chicken. I think the multiple packs of stew meat he ate were what kept him going until we got him back on the right path (minus his gall bladder) and built him back up post insult.

There is also a great herbal pill - LiverCare by Himalaya. Has all the liver supportive stuff in it.

Linda Gower
----- Original Message -----
From: Cdandp2@aol.com
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 7:47 AM
Subject: [rawfeeding] Re: Vet wants a low protein diet

For nutrition help go to K9KidneyDiet at Yahoo groups. They're a kidney
failure group but someone on there will know where to direct you for liver
problems as well. And, I agree with the person who posted that dietary changes
for certain illnesses might be different than the standard normal diet for a
healthy dog (just like people). You can use food as "medicine" or "poison" to
support or aggravate certain conditions. And no, it's not protein that's the
problem. Even with kidney failure, it's phosphorus in that case and fat for
pancreas and liver. I suggest you contact that group and ask for help.
They've got a TON of nutritional data.

Carol for Spencer

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Messages in this topic (41)
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4a. Infections and pancreatitis
Posted by: "ptmagi" ptmagi@gmail.com ptmagi
Date: Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:12 pm ((PDT))

What a difference a day makes! :(

Yesterday, my only concern about switching our pup to raw was the
expense, and whether my daughter (who will be leaving home and taking
the dog with her when she graduates in the spring) will be able to
afford it. But, if need be, I will pay for the dog's food, so I
overcame that concern pretty easily.

Then my son calls me last night after talking at length to his
roommate's father who has been a vet tech at Colorado State
University's Vet Teaching hospital for the past 25 years and he threw
out allllll sorts of problems we could face.

His first warning was that pancreatitis is much more prevalent in
raw-fed dogs. I've been researching that today on the internet and
haven't found anything to back it up. The only consensus seems to be
that no one knows what causes it, but that high fat diets often
accompany it.

His second warning was that feeding raw meet subjects the dog to lots
of infections, and that because of this most vet clinics will only
treat raw-fed dogs off-site (and at much greater expense), so as not
to subject other patients to unnecessary risk. I find this really
hard to believe, but also can't imagine this man is just out-and-out
lying. Has anyone here run into this?

Another warning was that one has to be ULTRA careful that the meat you
feed is fresh and human-grade. And yet, I've read in other posts here
that some dogs actually prefer their meat a little "stinky" and
apparently don't suffer any distress from it. At this point in our
conversation I mentioned to my son that dogs' digestive systems are
much different from ours and that they can handle a lot of
crap/bacteria/yuckystuff that we can't and he said that Ken (the vet
tech) told him that is NOT true, that their digestive acids are no
different from ours. Well, I double-checked that today and the guy's
NUTS! A dog's stomach acidity is less than or equal to pH 1 with food
in the stomach and a human's is pH 4-5. That's a BIG difference!
Furthermore, with no carbs or sugars in their stomachs for bacteria to
thrive on, wouldn't infections be LESS likely to take hold in a raw
fed dog than a kibble fed one?

Honestly, this last assertion of his makes me wonder if the guy is
credible at all, and yet, with his background, SURELY he must have
some credibility?!?!? (I looked up his creds online and found that he
was even named Outstanding Vet Tech of the year by the CVMA a few
years ago.)

Geez, I'm confused! Hellllp!

Deb in CO

Messages in this topic (5)
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4b. Re: Infections and pancreatitis
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:27 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Deb!
IMO, some people are so irrationally opposed to raw feeding,
that they will use ANY argument, even outright untruths, to make
people feed cr*p-in-a-bag.

And others are so indoctrinated by "The Experts at the Big Dog Food
Company", they just can't admit that they can learn anything from
someone with common sense, and no letters after their name.

If I were you, I'd thank my son for his input, and do what I know is
best. : )

Tc
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> What a difference a day makes! :(
>
> Yesterday, my only concern about switching our pup to raw was the
> expense, and whether my daughter (who will be leaving home and taking
> the dog with her when she graduates in the spring) will be able to
> afford it. But, if need be, I will pay for the dog's food, so I
> overcame that concern pretty easily.
>
> Then my son calls me last night after talking at length to his
> roommate's father who has been a vet tech at Colorado State
> University's Vet Teaching hospital for the past 25 years and he threw
> out allllll sorts of problems we could face.
>
> His first warning was that pancreatitis is much more prevalent in
> raw-fed dogs. I've been researching that today on the internet and
> haven't found anything to back it up. The only consensus seems to be
> that no one knows what causes it, but that high fat diets often
> accompany it.
>
> His second warning was that feeding raw meet subjects the dog to lots
> of infections, and that because of this most vet clinics will only
> treat raw-fed dogs off-site (and at much greater expense), so as not
> to subject other patients to unnecessary risk. I find this really
> hard to believe, but also can't imagine this man is just out-and-out
> lying. Has anyone here run into this?
>
> Another warning was that one has to be ULTRA careful that the meat you
> feed is fresh and human-grade. And yet, I've read in other posts here
> that some dogs actually prefer their meat a little "stinky" and
> apparently don't suffer any distress from it. At this point in our
> conversation I mentioned to my son that dogs' digestive systems are
> much different from ours and that they can handle a lot of
> crap/bacteria/yuckystuff that we can't and he said that Ken (the vet
> tech) told him that is NOT true, that their digestive acids are no
> different from ours. Well, I double-checked that today and the guy's
> NUTS! A dog's stomach acidity is less than or equal to pH 1 with food
> in the stomach and a human's is pH 4-5. That's a BIG difference!
> Furthermore, with no carbs or sugars in their stomachs for bacteria to
> thrive on, wouldn't infections be LESS likely to take hold in a raw
> fed dog than a kibble fed one?
>
> Honestly, this last assertion of his makes me wonder if the guy is
> credible at all, and yet, with his background, SURELY he must have
> some credibility?!?!? (I looked up his creds online and found that he
> was even named Outstanding Vet Tech of the year by the CVMA a few
> years ago.)
>
> Geez, I'm confused! Hellllp!
>
> Deb in CO
>

Messages in this topic (5)
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4c. Re: Infections and pancreatitis
Posted by: "tottime47" tottime@aol.com tottime47
Date: Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:57 pm ((PDT))

Hi Deb,

How about you google

VET TECH DEGREE REQUIREMENTS

then you can decide if this guy the wisest guy on the
planet or not........

Sounds like he's been cooped up in academia for a little to
long with not enough contact with the real world, lol.

He isn't a vet and he's not in daily practice....
I personally think some of his ideals are way out there.....

I suggest you call around till you find a vet who at least agrees
with raw feeding,
heaven forbid you luck onto one who recommends it and take that new
puppy in for a checkup and a frank talk.....it'll do you both
good.......

Carol, Charkee & Moli

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "ptmagi" <ptmagi@...> wrote:

> Honestly, this last assertion of his makes me wonder if the guy is
> credible at all, and yet, with his background, SURELY he must have
> some credibility?!?!? (I looked up his creds online and found that
he
> was even named Outstanding Vet Tech of the year by the CVMA a few
> years ago.)
>
> Geez, I'm confused! Hellllp!
>
> Deb in CO

Messages in this topic (5)
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4d. Re: Infections and pancreatitis
Posted by: "jmwise80" jmwise80@yahoo.com jmwise80
Date: Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:58 pm ((PDT))

> Honestly, this last assertion of his makes me wonder if the guy is
> credible at all, and yet, with his background, SURELY he must have
> some credibility?!?!? (I looked up his creds online and found that he
> was even named Outstanding Vet Tech of the year by the CVMA a few
> years ago.)

It sounds to me like you took all his warnings into consideration,
researched them to the best of your ability, and debunked each one
thoroughly.

Michael Wise

Messages in this topic (5)
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4e. Re: Infections and pancreatitis
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:59 pm ((PDT))

Hey Deb!

Sounds like you already know this vet's assertions are nonsense....go with
your gut feeling. You are not the one who is confused! :)

Sandee & the Dane Gang

Messages in this topic (5)
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5a. Hey y'all!
Posted by: "Dawn" mpenny_007@yahoo.com mpenny_007
Date: Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:15 pm ((PDT))

Hi! Just wanted to say thanks a big bunch for all the information and
encouragement! I'm new, but, am encouraged by the comraderie(sp?)! My
name is Dawn and we have a one year old male Boxer, an almost one year
old male BT, a 5 m/o female BT, and a 17 y/o male Siamese cat. We just
started feeding raw about a month ago and I absolutely love it! My
babies all love it, too(the furry ones, the human kids are kinda
grossed out, but, not too bad! lol) My 5 m/o BT had a bit of health
problems, but since we started rawfeeding, she is putting on wt and
doing great! My boys are doing great also...so healthy and happy! My
kitty man is gaining and actually stays awake most of the day now!
Anyway, I won't keep you all, just wanted to say a big ole THANK YA!

Sincerely,
Dawn

PS....got pork chops at the grocer's today for $.99/lb....SCORE!

Messages in this topic (2)
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5b. Re: Hey y'all!
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:31 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Dawn!
YQW!
Its great to hear how people and their critters are doing.
btw, cut out the chop bones and toss them out.
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> Hi! Just wanted to say thanks a big bunch for all the information and
> encouragement! I'm new, but, am encouraged by the comraderie(sp?)! My
> name is Dawn and we have a one year old male Boxer, an almost one year
> old male BT, a 5 m/o female BT, and a 17 y/o male Siamese cat. We just
> started feeding raw about a month ago and I absolutely love it! My
> babies all love it, too(the furry ones, the human kids are kinda
> grossed out, but, not too bad! lol) My 5 m/o BT had a bit of health
> problems, but since we started rawfeeding, she is putting on wt and
> doing great! My boys are doing great also...so healthy and happy! My
> kitty man is gaining and actually stays awake most of the day now!
> Anyway, I won't keep you all, just wanted to say a big ole THANK YA!
>
> Sincerely,
> Dawn
>
> PS....got pork chops at the grocer's today for $.99/lb....SCORE!
>

Messages in this topic (2)
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6a. Vet disagrees with raw
Posted by: "Ivette Casiano" ivettecasiano@yahoo.com ivettecasiano
Date: Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:15 pm ((PDT))

<<...Well, I thought to myself, raw food, 1 ingredient, has
to be best, but I didn't say that to him.>>

LOL, LOL, LOL, You should've said that to him on the way out. LOL. I've heard they only get training in a few workshops on nutrition by commercial pet food companies. LOL,LOL, I'm still laughing.

Ivette Casiano
"Live for today, plan for tomorrow"

---------------------------------
Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (8)
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7a. feeding heads/eating teeth
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:17 pm ((PDT))

Hi all,

I posted this before but don't think I got any replies:

When you feed a head (like a lamb's head), does your dog eat the
teeth? Are there any safety concerns with a dog eating teeth? Mine is
a 20 lb. Boston, if that makes any difference.

I fed a lamb's head recently and my dog didn't seem to be too
interested in the mouth/tooth area (well, actually he did like the
tongue and the gum tissue--sorry if that's too graphic!), but he also
wasn't making much progress on the skull, so I removed it before he'd
eaten any teeth. He cleaned it off pretty well. I wasn't sure if he
could/would swallow any teeth, but I was slightly concerned...

Thanks,

Laurie

Messages in this topic (2)
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7b. Re: feeding heads/eating teeth
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:53 pm ((PDT))

"Laurie Swanson" <laurie@...> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I posted this before but don't think I got any replies:
*****
It may have gotten lost in the Yahoo Shuffle.

> When you feed a head (like a lamb's head), does your dog eat the
> teeth? Are there any safety concerns with a dog eating teeth?
*****
Sometimes the teeth are eaten, sometimes they're not. Once after a
calf head I found a scattering of teeth where one dog had eaten. OTOH,
I can recall many "tooth inclusive" meals with nothing left, not even a
tooth.

I don't see teeth as a health issue, but I've never fed adult heads,
just babies, or small game. They're either et or they ain't.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (2)
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8a. Re: Albertson's ribs price correction
Posted by: "Maggie Smith" redkeds@comcast.net redkeds1
Date: Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:19 pm ((PDT))

***MODERATOR'S NOTE: PLEASE TRIM YOUR MESSAGES.***

I hope that wasn't me - I thought I posted at 10 lbs for $10.

If it was me, I am so sorry !!!

Maggie, Rufus and Oliver

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Laurie Swanson" <laurie@...> wrote:
>
> Sorry, all, the price of .10/lb. that was posted previously by
someone
> else is incorrect. It's $1/lb. I just went to Albertson's in
Seattle
> and didn't see any ribs at that price and couldn't find it in the
> flyer, so I came home and looked online. This is from their web site:
>
> Country Style Ribs Pork Shoulder or Beef Back Ribs
> Max Pak, Beef Back Ribs Previously Frozen
> 10 LBS. FOR $10 with your Preferred Savings Card
> thru Aug 28
>
> Laurie
>

Messages in this topic (2)
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9a. Re: Turkey legs
Posted by: "Alan & Andrea Southern" wykham@sa.chariot.net.au seawyndriana
Date: Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:19 pm ((PDT))

Our cats rip the meat off and some chew the end, the standard poodles eat it all, the 8 week old pups are like the cats.
We can buy turkey for .80 cents a kilo or .40 cents a lb

Alan & Andrea
KITNKABOODLE BURMESE
WYKHAM BRITISH SHORTHAIR
QUINIVA STANDARD POODLES
http://users.chariot.net.au/~wykham
Aldinga Beach
South Australia
Australia

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Messages in this topic (18)
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9b. Re: Turkey legs
Posted by: "cdhaik" cdhaik@yahoo.com cdhaik
Date: Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:20 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Morledzep@... wrote:
>
>
> In a message dated 8/22/2007 2:39:51 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> ricottaj@... writes:
>
> New to rawfeeding and wondering if it is okay to feed a turkey
drumstick to
> my dog. She is a
> 50 pound pitbull/boxer mix.

Dogs love em mine leave some shards the pup cant manage a full on
chomp down yet but no worries. We get really big drumsticks here in
Guatemala and i have cut around just out of curiosity to see how much
meat and how much bone and they are good and meaty for us, if you feel
its a bit skinny on meat give the next few days meaty meals only, all
balances out on this diet anyways.

Caren y Amber y Rain

Messages in this topic (18)
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10. Took the plunge--a few more questions
Posted by: "JoAnn Ehlinger" jo11931@yahoo.com jo11931
Date: Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:20 pm ((PDT))

Thank you to those who responded to my questions about
starting our newly adopted 7mo lab/boxer mix on a raw
diet.

Linus had his first chicken quarter(leg)tonight. It
was funny watching him because at first all he did was
lick it and then he pulled on it and after about 5min
realized it was ok to eat it and he went to town.

So a few more questions.

Since he is a pup and is still growing should I feed
him twice a day?

If I feed him twice is a leg quarter for one meal and
then a boneless meal ok for the next?

Are organ meats a once a week thing or more often?

I think that is all for right now. I'm sure I will
have more questions later.

Living and learning in Indiana,

JoAnn

____________________________________________________________________________________
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Messages in this topic (1)
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11a. Words of caution
Posted by: "Joseph" scarfinger68@yahoo.com scarfinger68
Date: Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:20 pm ((PDT))

I have been feeding raw for 3 months to a miniature schnauzer and she
is doing great.

I gave my dog a pig tail about 4 inches big with the fat and skin
removed. She swallowed it whole after up-chucking it 3 times. I
said if this doesn't kill her nothing will.

Lesson: Give her a bigger tail so she can't swallow whole.

County style ribs: I cut the bone out because I thought they where
kind of an odd shape and I read in here that one reader said to stay
away from them. With the bone cut it it left approximately a 10 inch
piece of meat that I thought my dog would chew up and eat. She
didn't. She attempted to swallow it whole... I heard gasping noises
on her 4th try. She got it about 3/4 the way down and it got stuck.
She couldn't gag it back up and started running around in the yard in
a panic. I grabbed her and pulled it out.

Lesson learned: Feed bigger pieces of meat and or leave the bone in.
(She has ate those type of ribs without any problem with the bone
left in.)

I still am not 100% converted to RAW. I give 1/3 cup dog food in the
morning (which she doesn't eat until after her evening RAW meal)

The problem I am having is finding bone to go with the pork. I have
been using pig tails but they have a lot of fat. Otherwis I feed
chicken, kidney, heart and pork. One in a while beef but its more
expensive and I can't find meat/bone ratio that works for me.

Joe Stokes, Ohio

Messages in this topic (3)
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11b. Re: Words of caution
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:29 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 8/22/2007 7:22:57 PM Pacific Standard Time,
scarfinger68@yahoo.com writes:

The problem I am having is finding bone to go with the pork. I have
been using pig tails but they have a lot of fat. Otherwis I feed
chicken, kidney, heart and pork. One in a while beef but its more
expensive and I can't find meat/bone ratio that works for me.

Joe,

there does not have to be bone in every meal.. a nice hunky pork picnic has
just the right amount of bone for the amount of meat on it.. even if the dog
doesn't eat all of the bone.

and there is no reason to remove the fat or skin.. fat is GOOD for dogs and
the skin is chewy and good for their teeth..

Remember that only 10% of the diet needs to be edibly bone, you can certainly
go over that.. just don't get carried away.

Catherine R.

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Messages in this topic (3)
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11c. Re: Words of caution
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:51 pm ((PDT))

Joe, Joe, How can you see the full benefits of feeding raw in your dog
if you don't FEED ALL RAW? hmmm? Give it a real trial.

Why not buy pork shoulders or fresh hams? I can get 'em for about .69
cents a pound. Cut off meal sized chunks, or let her eat off enough
for a meal, then put it in the fridge until next meal.

Not all meals have to have a bone. With only 10% edible bone needed in
the diet, you can feed plenty of boneless meals.

Pig tails are a bit bony and fatty, I think. Not for regular feeding,
anyway. The piece you fed must have been cut up, try for bigger parts.
Sometimes, if you can talk to the meat manager, you can get them to
sell you stuff before they whack them into little bits. Whole pork
neck bones are soft and edible, but need meat added to them.

What about turkey? Rabbit is good, if you can find a source at an
affordable price.

How's about some organs, especially liver? Liver is important, it
should be 5% of the total diet.

You get kudos for feeding raw, but give that kibble away!
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> I have been feeding raw for 3 months to a miniature schnauzer and she
> is doing great.
>
> I gave my dog a pig tail about 4 inches big with the fat and skin
> removed. She swallowed it whole after up-chucking it 3 times. I
> said if this doesn't kill her nothing will.
>
> Lesson: Give her a bigger tail so she can't swallow whole.
>
> Country style ribs: I cut the bone out because I thought they where
> kind of an odd shape and I read in here that one reader said to stay
> away from them. With the bone cut it it left approximately a 10 inch
> piece of meat that I thought my dog would chew up and eat. She
> didn't. She attempted to swallow it whole... I heard gasping noises
> on her 4th try. She got it about 3/4 the way down and it got stuck.
> She couldn't gag it back up and started running around in the yard in
> a panic. I grabbed her and pulled it out.
>
> Lesson learned: Feed bigger pieces of meat and or leave the bone in.
> (She has ate those type of ribs without any problem with the bone
> left in.)
>
> I still am not 100% converted to RAW. I give 1/3 cup dog food in the
> morning (which she doesn't eat until after her evening RAW meal)
>
> The problem I am having is finding bone to go with the pork. I have
> been using pig tails but they have a lot of fat. Otherwise I feed
> chicken, kidney, heart and pork. One in a while beef but its more
> expensive and I can't find meat/bone ratio that works for me.
>
> Joe Stokes, Ohio
>

Messages in this topic (3)
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12a. Re: Newbie reassurance & questions
Posted by: "Olga" olga.drozd@gmail.com olga_d
Date: Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:20 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Mary Whetsel" <chickiboo@...> wrote:
> They are each getting one
> leg & thigh twice a day.
...
> One dog (she's a 100 lb St. Bernard
> mix) still has the diarrhea. The other dog (a 85lb rather nervous
> golden/newfie mix) seems just fine activity wise and all, but hasn't
> gone at all since Monday afternoon.

I'd be tempted to go with 3 chicken leg quarters for the Saint, and
stay with two for the Golden/Newfie. Stick to chicken till both have
solid stools. The lack of poop in the smaller dog may just be the
adjustment, or you may have missed him going. I'm betting you'll see
him poop soon.

The whole chicken plan sounds good to me, but don't feed the chicken
bone after you remove the meat. That would be too much bone and
constipate them. And depending on how much chicken breast you eat,
you can give the dogs some whole chickens also. For those two I'd cut
a whole chicken right down the middle to create two slightly unequal
halves. Give the bigger one to the bigger dog and smaller half to the
smaller dog (I'm assuming they're not overweight here).

Olga

Messages in this topic (3)
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13. [Raw Feeding] Thank you for the encouragement and advice!!!
Posted by: "Brandi Bryant" bbryant573@gmail.com bbryant573
Date: Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:57 pm ((PDT))

Well, I went shopping. Didn't come home with what I had planned but I
think I did pretty good. Went to Wal-mart and I got 14 whole chicken
fryers for .82 a lb. I got 2 bags of leg quarters for $3.90 a bag -
the rest of their chicken wasn't price all that good I didn't think.
They had a family value pack of chicken thighs for like 1.18lb for
5lbs - priced at $5.87. They had Boneless Skinless Breasts with rib
meat at a $3.04 a lb and for 5lbs was 15.18. Thought that was high.
So I went to Homeland and got several packages of Half Chicken Breast
with ribs for $1.69 a lb. Come home gave the dogs their meals, and
then I did up tomorrow mornings and evening in gallon size zip lock
bags, and did the next days. I'm giving small amounts in the morning
and bigger portions in the evening. I did notice the Duke, Catori,
and Roxie are having loose stools so I'm trying to give them lots of
bone, right? I'm not giving any organs, just basically whole chickens
cut up, breats and leg quarters. Should the loose stools clear up on
their own? There was something else...OH I emailed on of the butcher
that we have in Nowata, they still have not answered my email...I did
talk to another local butcher here in Dewey (which is like 5 minutes
down the road - you blink and you've missed kinda towns LOL) and they
do have meat, mostly pork and beef. The lady that I talked to said
that she has been told that her prices are cheaper a lot of times then
Wal-Mart unless they put there meat on sale. So when I get to beef
and pork there's another avenue for me, I have sent out an email to
Bartlesville Freecycle letting everybody know that if they cleaning
out their freezers of expired meat to let me know, thank you for that
suggestion. I will go in the mornings to Walmart and see if they've
marked their meat down. I'm also going to be talking to some of the
meat market managers and see if they can't get me some chickens in
bulk.

I just want to thank you to all of those that gave me advice and
encouragement. I'm starting to feel more relaxed with feeding raw to
my dogs. I appreciate you all more then you know!!

You guys are the BEST!!!!
--
Brandi
Bartlesville, Ok
www.obediencetrainingclubofbartlesville.com

Messages in this topic (1)
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14. Mammoth size knuckle bones?
Posted by: "Brandi Bryant" bbryant573@gmail.com bbryant573
Date: Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:58 pm ((PDT))

You know those big mammoth size knuckle bones, I bought 2 of them for
my GS adults before I start the RAW diet and I'm thinking that with
the meat or dried "flavoring" that's on it won't be good for them. Am
I correct in my thinking? That I should not give these to my dogs,
should I donate them to the SPCA or ARF?

Again thank you for all that you've done!

--
Brandi
Bartlesville, Ok
www.obediencetrainingclubofbartlesville.com

Messages in this topic (1)
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