Feed Pets Raw Food: [rawfeeding] Digest Number 11954

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: My questions about feeding raw
From: Tina Berry
1b. Re: My questions about feeding raw
From: Andrea

2a. Re: Not good teeth
From: carnesbill
2b. Re: Not good teeth
From: cmhausrath

3a. Re: to Catherine on feeding toothless pit bull
From: Sandee Lee
3b. Re: to Catherine on feeding toothless pit bull
From: steph.sorensen
3c. Re: to Catherine on feeding toothless pit bull
From: Morledzep@aol.com
3d. Re: to Catherine on feeding toothless pit bull
From: Morledzep@aol.com

4a. Re: Skin allergy
From: Sandee Lee
4b. Re: Skin allergy
From: steph.sorensen
4c. Re: Skin allergy
From: Sandee Lee

5a. Re: Kidney Failure
From: Sandee Lee
5b. Re: Kidney Failure
From: Mary
5c. Re: Kidney Failure
From: Sandee Lee

6a. Re: New to raw...diarrhea...but not giving up! =)
From: coriowen

7. 'Hot' vs 'Cooling' foods?
From: Pam Vojtas

8a. are dogs carnivoirs or omnivoirs
From: mandajenwalker
8b. Re: are dogs carnivoirs or omnivoirs
From: Sandee Lee

9. Re: vegetarian who wants to start feeding my ill 6 month old puppy r
From: Melissa Wood

10a. Re: Words of caution
From: nwohiopma

11a. Re: Hey y'all!
From: delcaste

12a. Re: Venison Organs/Parts & First Rawfed litte
From: Tina Berry

13a. Re: Dog with pancreatitis
From: Rhonda

14.1. Re: turkey legs
From: nachoburrito

15. Okay rawfeeders, riddle me this...
From: steph.sorensen

Messages
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1a. Re: My questions about feeding raw
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 1:53 pm ((PDT))

"I hear about the Prey Model diet, and it is really confusing me. Feed organ
meats one day, bones another.....I am lost. Is this the way to go, or is it
best to feed just a variety of meats and parts with no sets schedule"

Hi Erin, welcome to the list and congrats for switching your fur babies to
raw. I can't comment on cats, but on dogs, prey model diet is nothing more
than 80% meat, 10% bone, 10% organs anytime you want. It doesn't have to be
per meal or per week, but over time.

I choose to feed my bunch mostly venison, but I'm in Montana where it is
readily avialable atleast for 9 months out of the year when I can stock up.
When I am out of venison, my next choice is turkey, then whatever is on sale
for the cheapest - usually chicken, but whatever works. It's all 1000%
better then kibble.

I used to feed at the same time every night but then discovered (thank you
Chris O) that if you do this, and then don't feed them at that time, they
may throw up yellow bile because their stomachs get accustomed to eating at
the same time every day. So now I mix it up, am, pm, mid day, whatever and
have had no issues whatsoever.

So good luck, someone else will answer about the cats.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
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1b. Re: My questions about feeding raw
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 2:02 pm ((PDT))

Erin, you are welcome to post from the moment you join the group! If
you want some answers without waiting you can do a search in the
archives since pretty much every question you can think of has been
asked in the past. Still, we're always available to answer
individual questions.

> my vet wants to do some major diagnostic tests. I believe that
> before I put her through all that, I would like to try RAW in case
> she is having problems with allergies. Rufus (our Lab/Doberman
> mix) is coming along for the ride.

Fantastic! Hopefully we can get her problems squared away quickly so
you don't have to waste a bunch of money on tests.

> 1. How much to feed? Rufus is 65 lbs and Fiona is 37.

Generally, you can start feeding about 2-3% of the ideal adult weight
of the animal. If the dogs are adults have a good weight now, you
can start with 1 to 1.5lbs of food for Rufus every day and 3/4 to 1
lb a day for Fiona.

> Diego is a kitten around 5 months and Carmen is about a year old

I honestly couldn't tell you how much I feed my cats. I give them a
selection of foods and they eat what they will. Of course, when I
say "I" I mean my bf, because apparently the cats have decided that
if food comes from me it must be poisoned <sigh>. I advise letting
the cats eat as they will for now and once they are on board think
about slowly reducing food if necessary.

> 2. I hear about the Prey Model diet, and it is really confusing
> me. Feed organ meats one day, bones another.....I am lost. Is
> this the way to go

Oh, heavans, that's too complicated. Prey model feeding is extremely
forgiving, the idea is to balance over time. The ideal diet would be
whole prey animals hide, head, guts and all. Since most of us can't
do that, we do our best with what we can find. You want to feed what
would end up having around the same stuff as an average prey animal.
That boils down to mostly meat, some bone, and a little organ. (If
you need numbers you can think 80% meat, 10% bone, 10% organ).

There are no hard and fast rules of what has to be fed from day to
day. For example, this week my pups have been working their way
through a pork shoulder each. They have had some chicken feet here
and there, and this weekend they'll probably get a glob of liver or
kidney if I remember. Next week they might have duck, or chicken, or
goat. The puppy eats every day, but my 1.5 yr old GSP mix eats a
very big meal every other day.

> is it best to feed just a variety of meats and parts with no sets
> schedule.

Right. At first you should stick with one kind of meat at a time.
You could buy some whole chickens and cut them up into meal sized
pieces and feed them for a week or two. After a time their systems
will be digesting the food well with no loose stools or discomfort.
At that point you can choose another meat to add. You should slowly
add variety, because too much too soon can result in cannon butt.

> 3. Cats. Mine aren't interested in bones. Can I feed them
> groundand small diced meats instead?

My cats were a PITA to switch to raw. It took about a year and a
half before I could get them to eat raw without bribe foods. There
is a sister list called rawcat that is dedicated specifically to the
many hurdles our felines can throw at us.
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawcat

> I know it is extremely bad for overweight cats to go without food
> for more than 24 hours, and she won't eat the whole meat.

You might need to take baby steps with your big girl. Feed her
whatever she will accept and work on getting her to whole raw. If
you join rawcat there are lots and lots of people who have great tips
that they learned from their difficult cats. If you want a good
laugh, search rawcat's archives for posts about "The Ted." He makes
my cats seem like pushovers.

Andrea

Messages in this topic (4)
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2a. Re: Not good teeth
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 1:53 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Laura Atkinson" <llatkinson@...>
wrote:
>
> And, in 4+ years, I've seen it numerous times. Most
> especially when they
> get something like a slab o' beef ribs, where there's lots
> of lovely nibling
> to be done to get the last bits of connective tissue off before
> I take them
> away.

A quote from my previous post ... "He
uses the incisors to NIBBLE SHREDS OF MEAT FROM BONES and to groom
himself and other dogs."

> Just 'cause you ain't seen it doesn't mean it don't happen.

To me, nibbling isn't eating, its playing. I guess it's just the
difference in terms. I guess I should have said I have never seen a
dog do any SERIOUS eating with front teeth. :)

When my dogs eat pork ribs they eat the bone/meat at the same time.
They don't nibble the meat off then eat the bone. I don't feed beef
ribs. I've never seen a reason to ... not much meat, real hard
bone. So I guess what you say is true if you consider nibbling to be
eating. :)

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (11)
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2b. Re: Not good teeth
Posted by: "cmhausrath" cmhausrath@yahoo.com cmhausrath
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 3:45 pm ((PDT))

"macattack0201" <bmcneil@...> wrote:

> My 6yo Boston Terrier--when we "found each other" she had no front
> teeth at all;

My Griffin has only one stub of a tooth on the bottom in front; he has
about half of his upper front teeth (and all his canines), but just
that one little nubby thing on the bottom. Never has mattered at all
to him -- he's less adept at eating some things, perhaps, but he does
just fine, even with rib slabs where he really uses his front teeth:
http://rawfeddogs.net/RecipePhoto/9/4

I wouldn't worry a bit about the missing teeth! OTOH, if the dirty
teeth seem to cause any pain or don't get scraped clean pretty quickly
with raw feeding, you may need to do a dental just to get your dog back
to square one.

-- sandy & griffin

Messages in this topic (11)
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3a. Re: to Catherine on feeding toothless pit bull
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 2:46 pm ((PDT))

Hi Steph,

You basically want to stay away from anything labeled bones! They are tooth
wearers and breakers! Stick to edible bones covered with tons of meat.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "steph.sorensen" <steph.sorensen@yahoo.com>

Even bones they sell at pet stores? That is what I give them. They
may be beef bones, but the package sometimes says ham bones. That
is what I give them. I would never give them bones I've cooked.
That much I do know. :)

Messages in this topic (13)
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3b. Re: to Catherine on feeding toothless pit bull
Posted by: "steph.sorensen" steph.sorensen@yahoo.com steph.sorensen
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 3:37 pm ((PDT))

Sandee,

Okay, let me ask you this. Is it a good thing to accept carcasses
and what is left over from hunters' kills? I am a biologist and work
at an ecological firm with a bunch of guys that hunt. They hunt deer
and waterfowl mostly, but if I took their leftovers (carcasses, misc.
body parts, and entrails) and froze them until I was ready to feed,
that is good, is it not? I figure it is the closest thing to cutting
them loose and letting them try to bring one down themselves!

-Steph

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee Lee" <rlee@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Steph,
>
> You basically want to stay away from anything labeled bones! They
are tooth
> wearers and breakers! Stick to edible bones covered with tons of
meat.
>
> Sandee & the Dane Gang
>
> From: "steph.sorensen" <steph.sorensen@...>
>
> Even bones they sell at pet stores? That is what I give them. They
> may be beef bones, but the package sometimes says ham bones. That
> is what I give them. I would never give them bones I've cooked.
> That much I do know. :)
>

Messages in this topic (13)
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3c. Re: to Catherine on feeding toothless pit bull
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 3:44 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 8/24/2007 12:53:45 PM Pacific Standard Time,
steph.sorensen@yahoo.com writes:

Steph,

i seriously don't know what they do to those bones in the dog food stores to
preserve them before they sell them to unsuspecting dog owners..

they can and DO break and wear down teeth. The bones your dogs need are the
bones that come naturally covered in nice hunky raw meat.. like pork picnic
roasts and slabs of ribs, and whole or half chickens..

think MEAT with a bone, rather than Bone with some meat..

Catherine R.

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (13)
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3d. Re: to Catherine on feeding toothless pit bull
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 3:47 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 8/24/2007 2:38:09 PM Pacific Standard Time,
steph.sorensen@yahoo.com writes:

Steph..

absolutely NOT, you must package all that up and send it to me so my dogs
can check it and approve of it before you give it to your dogs.. lol.

all kidding aside,that's GREAT.. i would give my right arm to be able to get
that kind of meat for my dogs.. we're stuck with just what we can get through
our buying group and grocery stores.. most of the hunters i know go far away
to hunt and don't carry back the entire carcass and i can't convince them to
bring it back for me.

Catherine R.

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (13)
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4a. Re: Skin allergy
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 2:50 pm ((PDT))

Steph,

Most often dogs are not allergic to protein in the raw form. Cooked and
processed is a totally different thing...and most often the allergy isn't to
the protein but rather all of the other ingredients found in kibbles.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "steph.sorensen" <steph.sorensen@yahoo.com>
I actually talked to a co-worker that has a rescue that is allergic
to most proteins and actually has to eat a special food where the
protein has been modified genetically so her body doesn't recognize
it.

Messages in this topic (6)
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4b. Re: Skin allergy
Posted by: "steph.sorensen" steph.sorensen@yahoo.com steph.sorensen
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 3:34 pm ((PDT))

Sandee,

Really? Wow, that makes sense too, considering that is what her dogs
have always been eating.

You know, if that processed crap isn't good for us, what makes people
think that it is just how it is supposed to be with our pets?

-Steph

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee Lee" <rlee@...> wrote:
>
> Steph,
>
> Most often dogs are not allergic to protein in the raw form.
Cooked and
> processed is a totally different thing...and most often the allergy
isn't to
> the protein but rather all of the other ingredients found in
kibbles.
>
> Sandee & the Dane Gang
>
> From: "steph.sorensen" <steph.sorensen@...>
> I actually talked to a co-worker that has a rescue that is allergic
> to most proteins and actually has to eat a special food where the
> protein has been modified genetically so her body doesn't recognize
> it.
>

Messages in this topic (6)
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4c. Re: Skin allergy
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 3:43 pm ((PDT))

That's a very good question, Steph!! :)) Propaganda maybe????

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "steph.sorensen" <steph.sorensen@yahoo.com>

You know, if that processed crap isn't good for us, what makes people
think that it is just how it is supposed to be with our pets?

-Steph

Messages in this topic (6)
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5a. Re: Kidney Failure
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 3:01 pm ((PDT))

Hi Carol,

Actually feeding high carbohydrate, low protein, processed food is quite
damaging to the kidneys and other organs. Your vet needs to bring himself
up to date....protein is not the issue with damaged kidneys. Depending on
the severity (do you have lab results?) you may need to begin watching
phosphorus intake, but the high quality, easily digestible, high moisture
content of raw is perfect for maintaining kidney health.

We have discussed this issue frequently on the list so do an archive search.
Here is one message with the current info regarding the protein/kidney
issue.....
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/114796

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "my3jcs" <my3jcs@yahoo.com>

I'm hoping for some help with one of my dogs
who has kidney problems. Over a year ago, we were told by our vet,
that our dog had failing kidneys and they put him on the Science KD
dog food. He is a 9 yr. old boxer/sharpei. Can anyone share with me
how best to feed him raw? My vet warned me about feeding him too much
protein with the raw food so I'm worried about making my dog worse.

Messages in this topic (4)
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5b. Re: Kidney Failure
Posted by: "Mary" halle4@comcast.net hallebest
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 3:40 pm ((PDT))

"Your vet needs to bring himself up to date...."protein is not the issue with damaged kidneys."

High protein is very damaging to kidneys in failure. I was a dialysis tech in another life and high protein was the enemy of my patients. I live with an Internist who just verified it for me before I wrote this to the group.

I am talking about unhealthy kidneys not normal kidneys. Below the post speaks to damaged kidneys and again high protein is very dangerous in this condition. Check out kidney disease on the web.

Mary Smallwood

----- Original Message -----
From: Sandee Lee
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 5:59 PM
Subject: Re: [rawfeeding] Kidney Failure

Hi Carol,

We have discussed this issue frequently on the list so do an archive search.
Here is one message with the current info regarding the protein/kidney
issue.....

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/114796

Sandee & the Dane Gang

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
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5c. Re: Kidney Failure
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 3:56 pm ((PDT))

The current studies have shown that not to be true. Did you read the info
in the link I posted?

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Mary" <halle4@comcast.net>
>
> High protein is very damaging to kidneys in failure. I was a dialysis
tech in another life and high protein was the enemy of my patients. I live
with an Internist who just verified it for me before I wrote this to the
group.
>
> I am talking about unhealthy kidneys not normal kidneys. Below the post
speaks to damaged kidneys and again high protein is very dangerous in this
condition. Check out kidney disease on the web.

Messages in this topic (4)
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6a. Re: New to raw...diarrhea...but not giving up! =)
Posted by: "coriowen" COwen98@aol.com coriowen
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 3:32 pm ((PDT))

Joe,
This is exactly what I feel like about the little dogs (18lbs). I am
thinking, "Are they going to have a good poop this time?" LOL The
big girls, they have adjusted quite well so no worries there. My 2
year old Dachshund woke me up 3 times last night needing to go out
and tried to poop but nothing came out. =( Now it's in the
constipation stage! I have been gone all day so my husband has been
here with them so I think he said they are doing better today. I
have been running around doing too much to get to watch closely until
later this evening! SHEESH! It's been busy around here. I am going
to let them out right now...;)
Cori

> > Cori,
> >
> > You didn't do anything wrong by switching quickly. Sounds like
they
> are
> > doing fine. Soft stools are really no big deal! :)
> >
> I agree. Being new to RAW I was on the POOP watch everyday
thinking..
> To much bone? to much meat? to much organ? Its kind of funny how
into
> the poop I was ( and still am just not quite as anymore).
>
> The main thing was to much organ meats I was finding out.
>
> I give organ meat in small amounts about once every 3 days. i ahve
a
> 15lb dog so its around a thumbnail or 2 thumnail size portions with
her
> meal.
>
> Joe stokes, ohio
>

Messages in this topic (8)
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7. 'Hot' vs 'Cooling' foods?
Posted by: "Pam Vojtas" pam.vojtas@datacore.com pvojtas
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 3:32 pm ((PDT))

Have any of you heard of certain types of raw meats being classified as
'hot' and others as 'cooling'. My agility instructor mentioned this and
I'm curious to hear of any of you have. She said chicken and beef, for
instance, are considered hot meats, whereas salmon would be a cooling
food.

This is of particular interest to me during these hot So Florida summers
because my little terrier seems to be less energetic in class in the
last few weeks, coincidentally(???) since we've started feeding raw.

Pam

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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8a. are dogs carnivoirs or omnivoirs
Posted by: "mandajenwalker" walker1031@chartermi.net mandajenwalker
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 3:32 pm ((PDT))

I went to the vet today with my dog, Louie's, skin problem (we think
he has hypothyroidism). My vet told me that in fact dogs are
omnivoirs and they do need fruits and vegetables to live. She told me
to steer clear of the raw diet at all costs!
I know everyone has there beliefs....I just don't want him to end up
with health problems down the road. I also know that she is being fed
information through her dog food distributors....
Give me your insight please.....
Thank You all,
Mandy

Messages in this topic (2)
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8b. Re: are dogs carnivoirs or omnivoirs
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 3:42 pm ((PDT))

Hi Mandy,

You need to read the rawfeeding myths where you will find not someone's
beliefs but the facts! Your vet should know that classification is based on
anatomy and physiology which proves that dogs are carnivores. And it is
no secret what the appropriate diet for a carnivore consists of...not fruits
and veggies!! :)

http://rawfed.com/myths/index.html

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "mandajenwalker" <walker1031@chartermi.net>

Messages in this topic (2)
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9. Re: vegetarian who wants to start feeding my ill 6 month old puppy r
Posted by: "Melissa Wood" mwood8402@yahoo.com mwood8402
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 3:33 pm ((PDT))

I'm a vegetarian too. Like others have said, it was gross at first, but you get used to it. I try to buy mostly humanely raised meats, so that helps.. I know my dog was meant to eat meat. It's not his fault that factory farms exist.

-Melissa W

____________________________________________________________________________________
Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.
http://get.games.yahoo.com/proddesc?gamekey=monopolyherenow

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10a. Re: Words of caution
Posted by: "nwohiopma" nwohiopma@yahoo.com nwohiopma
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 3:33 pm ((PDT))

Hi Joe,

I feed pork spare ribs with a pork steak, bone removed from the steak.
I got a 36 lb. case for $65 on sale at House of Meats. The pork
steak was on sale for $1.19/lb.

I feed 1/4 slab of ribs and one pork steak per dog. The case lasts
for 12 meals.

House of Meats has frozen rabbits. There are 5 or 6 stores in the
Toledo area. They carry most organs, too.

My doggies don't like rabbit much, I have 4 or 5 in the freezer if
you'd like them. Send me an email if you're interested. I live just
north of the Franklin Park mall off Talmadge Rd. near Alexis Rd.

Here's the House of Meats website. You can find their weekly specials
and print coupons.

http://www.houseofmeats.com

Toledo Market is on Dorr St. between Secor and Byrne Rds. I saw
Anne's response telling you about it. Great source of goat.

Candace and the 4 Collies

Messages in this topic (9)
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11a. Re: Hey y'all!
Posted by: "delcaste" delcaste@yahoo.com delcaste
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 3:34 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Giselle" <megan.giselle@...> wrote:
>
> Hi, Silvina!
> We aren't here to admonish people, that's not what we do!

You guys are so patient and knowlegeable I have never felt I was being
admonished. That was me being humorous. Ha,ha. I imagine I will get it
one of these days just right now that seems so far away :(

Silvina

Messages in this topic (12)
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12a. Re: Venison Organs/Parts & First Rawfed litte
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 3:34 pm ((PDT))

"I have not yet tried venison organs and I think that it will take some time
before the whole pack eagerly dives into a carcass, but for a first time
with such a large piece and with this new meat I think it went well."

It sounds like it went REALLY well. One of mine still won't eat raw liver -
doesn't like the texture - but he will eat it frozen; depends on the dog.
My other 3 eat anything.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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13a. Re: Dog with pancreatitis
Posted by: "Rhonda" rhonda18@gmail.com rhondabrabbin
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 3:36 pm ((PDT))

Hi Karen,

Someone on the list referred me to your post as my 6 month old
Greyhound puppy, Daphne, has EPI and type 1, insulin dependant,
diabetes. I want to transition over to a RAW diet, but am not sure
how to go about it I have been investigating the raw diet for about 4
days now. I am worried as I just got her to a point where she has
really good poops. Last night I gave her some semi raw [I broiled it
for 5 min] Mahi Mahi fish and she had diarrhea this morning so now I
am afraid to give her anything else raw. I did go to Petco today and
bought http://www.naturalbalanceinc.com/dogformulas/RAW.html which is
raw but I know not the true RAW diet but it is a start.
I am just confused as of how to and if I should do this. I have been
feeding her

http://www.castorpolluxpet.com/store/organix/organix_adult_canine_form
ula
With Organic plain yogurt to mix the enzymes with also organic eggs
every other day.
Any advice you have would be more than welcome.

Thanks in advance.
Rhonda

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "pretty24355" <blackdogshaven@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi Laurie,
>
> What if the extent and > type of unnatural diet and lifestyle
combine
> w/a dog's genetics to
> > determine how disease is expressed?
>
> Dogs who come on this list with chronic pancreatic issues-for
> whatever reason-still have them. Since you cannot change the past,
> you need to try to help the dog in the future because the damage to
> the pancreas is done. That is why finding out the underlying cause
> of chronic pancreatitis is critical.
>
> < But if they ate a totally pure diet, got lots of sun, fresh air
> and exercise, had normal socialization, no vaccines or multiple
> wormings as puppies, etc.--maybe they wouldn't have any of those
> issues.>
>
> Of course those things help and should be done; but you need
> generations and generations of all of this to even begin to repair
> the damage. And, if a pancreas is fried or on its way to being
fried
> (mild chronic pancreatitis), nothing helps but 1) major diet
> restructuring and changes, 2) hopefully finding out the underlying
> cause and 3) adding a prescription strength pancreatic enzyme. We
> kid ourselves if we think anything else.
>
> My Samantha with Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency receives no
> vaccines, no flea, tick, heartworm treatment. I live on 12 acres of
> property in the hills in a very low population state with little
> pollution. She gets tons of sun, fresh air, and exercise. She is
> extremely well socialized and is never wormed. My dogs have been
> fed raw 7.5 years.
>
> Nevertheless, if Sam does not receive a prescription strength
> pancreatic enzyme with each and every meal, and is not given small
> meals - 3x daily, she gets diarrhea, vomits her food, and gets gassy
> and burpy. Sam had lost a great deal of her coat and 1/4 of her
body weight. Sam also has a very hard time putting on any weight,
but is regaining her coat. She is now able to eat chicken, pork,
fish, a bit of beef and some organs. We are getting there, but it is
a long and hard road for her.
>
> Panceratic isses are nothing to mess around with.
>
> Karen
>

Messages in this topic (10)
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14.1. Re: turkey legs
Posted by: "nachoburrito" nachoburrito@yahoo.com nachoburrito
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 3:53 pm ((PDT))

I have pugs and thought I could feed the turkey
> drums with hearts with livers. They are pretty meaty. Should I whack
> the bone or is turkey bone also soft like chicken? The grocer told me
> it was softer than chicken but I rely on you.
>
> Silvina

My Standard Poodles and the neighbor's Mini Schnauzer adore turkey
drums, and gobble (sorry, make that "crunch" :-) up the bones with
gusto. I feed them once a week or so because a local market provides
them for 79 cents a pound. They don't have as much meat on them as the
Thanksgiving turkeys, so I'm thinking these birds get some exercize!
The bone ratio is way high compared to the model, so they also get some
pure muscle that day.

As for hardness, while they are harder than a young chicken, they seem
about comparable to an old stewing hen (which I also feed because a
friend has a "pasture hen" egg business).

However, the gang's favorite meal is lamb necks, which I thank this
list for putting me on to.

Cheers, Joan

Messages in this topic (31)
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15. Okay rawfeeders, riddle me this...
Posted by: "steph.sorensen" steph.sorensen@yahoo.com steph.sorensen
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 3:53 pm ((PDT))

Sorry for asking so many questions - first full day. :) If you want
to give them the largest hunk of ungulate body part you can find,
what do you do with what they don't immediately eat? Won't it just
sit and rot and smell if you leave it out?

This may seem like a very strange question to some of you, but from a
biological standpoint, which is what you guys are supporting with
your canine and feline diets, dogs would bring down a large animal as
a pack, and it may take them a week to get through the whole thing.
However, a) there isn't a freezer to stick it back into, and b) if
you already thawed out the meat once to give it to them, wouldn't it
be unwise to refreeze and thaw repeatedly? It makes meat go bad.

So what do you do in this instance? Simply cut the meat and bone
into properly sized proportions, or give them larger pieces and try
to resolve the problem of what to do with what they don't eat?

It is a tradeoff between what is best and what works out the best.
Or is all of this only a matter of personal preference?

If I lived in the country, I'd be keen on carcasses, but living in
the city is another story.

-Steph
w/ Scarlet, Lucy and Minkey (the kitty)

Messages in this topic (1)
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Feed Pets Raw Food

Friday, August 24, 2007

[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11954

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