Feed Pets Raw Food: Oct 22, 2007

Monday, October 22, 2007

[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12189

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. When to switch to raw?
From: Ron Grill
1b. Re: When to switch to raw?
From: Sandee Lee
1c. Re: When to switch to raw?
From: Tina Berry

2a. Re: OT: list for general dog questions with a holistic slant
From: ginny wilken
2b. Re: OT: list for general dog questions with a holistic slant
From: Sandee Lee

3.1. Re: Pork
From: Morledzep@aol.com

4a. Re: Coaxing to gnaw bone
From: alicia.fagan

5a. Puppy growth too rapid?
From: Gayle
5b. Re: Puppy growth too rapid?
From: Josephine Morningstar
5c. Re: Puppy growth too rapid?
From: Tina Berry
5d. Re: Puppy growth too rapid?
From: Gayle
5e. Re: Puppy growth too rapid?
From: Tina Berry
5f. Re: Puppy growth too rapid?
From: Laura Atkinson

6a. Re: still hungry
From: Kevin Brown
6b. Re: still hungry
From: Tina Berry

7a. New -just registered
From: piccolo_mom
7b. Re: New -just registered
From: Tina Berry
7c. Re: New -just registered
From: Renate
7d. Re: New -just registered
From: bluegracepwd
7e. Re: New -just registered
From: Tina Berry
7f. Re: New -just registered
From: pattykat3
7g. Re: New -just registered
From: Renate

8a. Were do you get Green Tripe
From: Sara Buchanan 03218B
8b. Re: Were do you get Green Tripe
From: Sandee Lee

9a. Re: New to raw - made mistakes - need help
From: katkellm

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. When to switch to raw?
Posted by: "Ron Grill" wildrose_kangals@yahoo.ca wildrose_kangals
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 12:35 pm ((PDT))

Hello,

I am about to get a bitch who is bred. She will be about 3 weeks along
in her pregnancy. Can I switch her to raw or should I wait till after
the birth of the pups?

Thanks,
Ron

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

1b. Re: When to switch to raw?
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:05 pm ((PDT))

By all means, switch immediately. What better time to provide optimal
nutrition?

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Ron Grill" <wildrose_kangals@yahoo.ca>

I am about to get a bitch who is bred. She will be about 3 weeks along
in her pregnancy. Can I switch her to raw or should I wait till after
the birth of the pups?

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

1c. Re: When to switch to raw?
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 3:17 pm ((PDT))

"She will be about 3 weeks along in her pregnancy. Can I switch her to raw
or should I wait till after
the birth of the pups?"

I agree - switch her right away - it will be healthier for her and her
pups. Start off with whole chickens cut in half for the first 2-3 weeks;
then starting adding other meats. She will crave organ meats and no bone
towards the end of her pregnancy. And no, I don't give any extra
supplements to my pregnant dogs; just the ol' 80% meat, 10% bone 10% organ
ratios. I do add a daily egg with fish oil for their coats.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

2a. Re: OT: list for general dog questions with a holistic slant
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 12:47 pm ((PDT))

On Oct 22, 2007, at 11:55 AM, mmc2315 wrote:

> Hi everyone, can you recommend another list (sister list perhaps?)
> where I can ask some dog
> questions about health, general care, etc.? Something with a
> holistic approach, as we are
> looking for alternatives to standard heartworm prevention, etc.
>

Sure!

RawChat

jstsayno2vaccs

TruthAboutVaccines

ClassicalHomeopathyPets

all at Yahoogroups.

Then there's doghealth, but I don't recommend them because they are
not holistic enough and haven't got their story straight.

ginny and Tomo

All stunts performed without a net!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

2b. Re: OT: list for general dog questions with a holistic slant
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 12:51 pm ((PDT))

TruthAboutVaccines....
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TruthAboutVaccines

"This group is dedicated to providing information about the damages of
vaccinations for pets. The goal of the group is to help pet caretakers stop
the unnecessary vaccination of our animals. Other related subjects such as
alternative medicines,human vaccines and childhood vaccination, alternatives
to flea, tick, and Heartworm prevention will also be discussed."

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "mmc2315" <m.chelap@sbcglobal.net>

Hi everyone, can you recommend another list (sister list perhaps?) where I
can ask some dog
questions about health, general care, etc.? Something with a holistic
approach, as we are
looking for alternatives to standard heartworm prevention, etc.

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

3.1. Re: Pork
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 12:59 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 10/21/2007 6:07:34 PM Pacific Standard Time,
renate.tideswell@gmail.com writes:

The shoulder roast is from the top of the front legs, and the butt is from
the top of the back legs. Presumably the legs are all in synch, so as far
as toughness or tenderness, go, I think its pretty well the same LOL

****actually, shoulders are butt roasts and the rear legs are called hams.
Whether they are smoked, cured or raw, the rear legs are ALL called hams or
whole legs. and whole raw hams usually weigh in around 20 lbs each. And take a
good half an hour to whack into meal size hunks for 9 hungry dogs..

Catherine R.

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (52)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

4a. Re: Coaxing to gnaw bone
Posted by: "alicia.fagan" alicia.fagan@yahoo.com alicia.fagan
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:21 pm ((PDT))

Giselle, great tips, thanks so much! Will let you know how it goes.

Alicia

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Giselle <megan.giselle@...> wrote:
>
> Hi, Alicia!
> Welcome!
>
> Getting out of the mindset that 'dogs must be fed in a dog dish' can
help
> your dog to learn to eat raw. F

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

5a. Puppy growth too rapid?
Posted by: "Gayle" gayle@gayleturner.net gayle28607
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:22 pm ((PDT))

Hi,

I started my French brittany pup on RMB three weeks ago when he was 11 weeks old and
15.6 pounds. Today, at 14 weeks, he weighs 19.8 pounds. His biggest weight gain was on
kibble between 8 and 11 weeks when he gained 7 pounds. Should I cut back on what I am
feeding him now? The rate of gain at least is a bit slower.

His adult weight shouldn't be much more than about 40 pounds - at least according to the
breed standard. Yikes! He is already half way there. I feed him three times per day, chicken
only until a few days ago when I added pork. He eats what he wants and then stops.

To me he looks lean but not skinny. His ribs are not super visible though, but I can feel all
of them very easily. With RMB I was hoping for the slow puppy growth that is so good for
their adult health. I am so surpised to find out he weighs this much, and wonder what all
of you think about whether I should regulate his food more. I had figured out that half a
small chicken or the leg quarters I usually get would be about .8 pounds, but sometimes
lately he has been eating the whole leg quarter for breakfast! So I give him more at lunch...

What do you all think?

Gayle and Chakotay

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________

5b. Re: Puppy growth too rapid?
Posted by: "Josephine Morningstar" josephine.morningstar@gmail.com jomorningstar
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:36 pm ((PDT))

I had always been taught that it was 2% to 3% of their ideal weight and that
if feeding more then once per day.. that the TOTAL day amt should not exceed
the 2% to 3 % per body weight.

I also know that if young puppies grow too fast, they have more joint
problems later on in life.

if the ideal adult weight is 40 lbs and at 14 weeks he is nearly half way
there.. I would tend to believe that he is getting too much..

but then.. im only going on what i have read here and on other raw prey diet
websites and do not have personal experience with either a puppy nor one of
that breed.

good luck.. i hope others jump in.. i answered as i know how frustrating it
can be to pose a question that is very important to you and not get an
answer very soon.

On 10/22/07, Gayle <gayle@gayleturner.net> wrote:
>
> . I had figured out that half a small chicken or the leg quarters I
> usually get would be about .8 pounds, but sometimes lately he has been
> eating the whole leg quarter for breakfast! So I give him more at lunch...
>
>
--
Josephine MorningStar & Heather, Pyr, Mobility & MASD
Native American in Massachusetts

Never threaten anyone. It ruins the surprise.
www.apachecreations.com

By Believing, One Sees.
Faith precedes the Miracle

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________

5c. Re: Puppy growth too rapid?
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 3:18 pm ((PDT))

"To me he looks lean but not skinny. His ribs are not super visible though,
but I can feel all of them very easily."

Then you are doing just fine; puppies go through rapid growth periods, but
on raw it usually isn't as noticeable, but I wouldn't be worried if he looks
good, feels good, etc.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________

5d. Re: Puppy growth too rapid?
Posted by: "Gayle" gayle@gayleturner.net gayle28607
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 3:18 pm ((PDT))

Thanks, Jo.

This is my concern, too. I guess if we are looking at 3% , the total daily RMB would be 1.2 lbs.
I hope others will chime in here. Because he isn't fat - at all - maybe I just have to trust
mother nature, and assume I'm going to have a bigger boy than usual, or one who is
having an early growth spurt. But gosh, half his adult weight at 14 weeks? My, my. He does
have what some have remarked on as "huge feet."

I'm going to watch his ribs closely, and maybe ease off on the food a little bit to push him
toward skinny, unless I hear otherwise from folks on the list.

Gayle and Chakotay

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Josephine Morningstar" <josephine.morningstar@...>
wrote:
>
> I also know that if young puppies grow too fast, they have more joint
> problems later on in life.

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________

5e. Re: Puppy growth too rapid?
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 3:45 pm ((PDT))

OK, I just looked back at my puppy records and good news... my current 18
month olds, when they were 4 months they each weighed 50 lbs. So over half
their adult weight because my female looks like she'll probably top out at
85-90 lbs and my male is around 90lbs now and may top out at 100 but he's
shorter than his daddy so I don't think he will be 100.

And both are lean, nice muscle tone, no health issues and neither had any
bouts of pano (puppy arthritis) either and they are large boned.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________

5f. Re: Puppy growth too rapid?
Posted by: "Laura Atkinson" llatkinson@gmail.com lauraatkinson2002
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 4:03 pm ((PDT))

I'd just go with feel. I always start my puppies out at 3%, and end
up feeding them more than I *think* they should for longer than I
think I should. For instance, my 8 mo old bitch, who is about 20", is
still eating about 1 lb a day and not getting fat at all...she's just
that active (she also DEMANDS two meals a day, but I think that's a
training issue - she's got me trained!). In contrast, my 23 1/2 ",
top of standard boy, gets between 3/4 and 1lb a day. She's less than
40 lbs, he's closer to 60 lbs.

--
Laura A
Kaos Siberians http://www.kaossiberians.com
Forget love...I'd rather fall in chocolate.

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

6a. Re: still hungry
Posted by: "Kevin Brown" jerseykev@aol.com noblarneyzone
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:36 pm ((PDT))

your GS Mix is a very active dog, adjust his intake as you see fit.
Watch his body, if he looks good keep feeding him.

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "goldenbearnwolf"
<goldenbearnwolf@...> wrote:
>
> OK, maybe my dog is a pig. I have a 115 lb shepard mix who I have
just
> switched to raw food over the past few weeks. He LOVES It! Eats
> everything I give him. I have been giving him the appropriate
amount of
> food for his weight, but he keeps asking for more. He wants to be
fed 3-
> 4 times a day. Is it normal when switching that he would be extra
> hungry? He's fine for several hours after I feed him & then comes
> asking for more. Oh yea, he asks. He comes & bumps us with his long
wet
> schnozzle!
> Other than that, it seems to be working great! His teeth are
cleaner,
> his breath is better, his allergies seem to have vanished.
> Thanks to everyone for their wonderful information!
> Lisa
>

Messages in this topic (14)
________________________________________________________________________

6b. Re: still hungry
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:12 pm ((PDT))

"I have been giving him the appropriate amount of food for his weight, but
he keeps asking for more. He wants to be
fed 3-4 times a day."

How old is your dog? If he's not getting over weight, you can feed him
more. My 4 gsds vary from 18 months to 4 years old; they each eat once a
day 1.5 - 2lbs but they only weigh 85-97 lbs.

If your dog is over 1 yr; I would feed him once day but feed him what he
needs. IMO it's healthier for them to get a large meal workout then a 24
hour rest instead of their stomachs expecting food every 4 or so hours.
6-12 months old I would feed twice a day; but again, increase the meals to
what he needs. If you can't feel his ribs or see his last rib, then he's
getting heavy. Or if he looks too thin, increase his amounts.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (14)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

7a. New -just registered
Posted by: "piccolo_mom" bmartell@rogers.com piccolo_mom
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:12 pm ((PDT))

Hi all,

My name is Barb and I have a Yorkie - 2y old and his weight is 4lbs.
For two weeks I was reading everything I could find on this diet and
decided to try it. Piccolo is very healthy, never was sick even one day
and I don't want to do anything wrong.
Are there any owners of Yorkies here or other very small dogs ?
I don't know how to start and need your help.
Please, please tell me what to do.
Thank you very much in advance.

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

7b. Re: New -just registered
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 3:17 pm ((PDT))

"I don't know how to start and need your help. Please, please tell me what
to do."

We don't have small dogs, but regardless of the size, you could start yours
off with bone in chicken breast (cheaper to buy whole chickens on sale and
cut up) for the first 2-3 weeks. For 4lb dog; start off with 2% of his
weight (just over 3/4 lb daily) and then judge by his looks if you need to
feed more or less.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

7c. Re: New -just registered
Posted by: "Renate" renate.tideswell@gmail.com tideswell_renate
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 3:42 pm ((PDT))

That's way too much. I feed my 12lb tzu just over 1/4lb tiny dogs need tiny
bits of food. My smallest one is a 9lb tzu and I was giving her 1/4lb and
she was doing well, now she's in her 6th week preg, so it's a whole new
story, but there is no way a 4 lb dog should eat 3/4lb per day. I'm new
here too, but I have small dogs and have done the calcs.
Renate

On 10/22/07, Tina Berry <k9baron@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> "I don't know how to start and need your help. Please, please tell me
> what
> to do."
>
> We don't have small dogs, but regardless of the size, you could start
> yours
> off with bone in chicken breast (cheaper to buy whole chickens on sale and
> cut up) for the first 2-3 weeks. For 4lb dog; start off with 2% of his
> weight (just over 3/4 lb daily) and then judge by his looks if you need to
> feed more or less.
> --
> Tina Berry - MT
> Kriegshund German Shepherds
> Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
> www.kriegshundgsds.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

7d. Re: New -just registered
Posted by: "bluegracepwd" janea@tpg.com.au bluegracepwd
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 3:45 pm ((PDT))

Hey Renate,

I have a couple of toy poodles, the smallest of which is around 4lbs.
I will often give her chicken thighs and chicken legs. What she
doesn't finish is picked up by one of the other dogs.

I've never had an issue with my small dogs over eating on a raw diet.
I never weigh food, and the only way I know her weight is because she
is ridiculously small and outside the standard.

cheers

Jane

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Renate <renate.tideswell@...> wrote:
>
> That's way too much. I feed my 12lb tzu just over 1/4lb tiny dogs
need tiny
> bits of food. My smallest one is a 9lb tzu and I was giving her
1/4lb and
> she was doing well, now she's in her 6th week preg, so it's a whole
new
> story, but there is no way a 4 lb dog should eat 3/4lb per day. I'm
new
> here too, but I have small dogs and have done the calcs.
> Renate

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

7e. Re: New -just registered
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 4:33 pm ((PDT))

"My smallest one is a 9lb tzu and I was giving her 1/4lb and she was doing
well, now she's in her 6th week preg, so it's a whole new story, but there
is no way a 4 lb dog should eat 3/4lb per day."

Oh crap - you're right - 2% of 4lbs is .08 so I was way off. Sorry. But
you can still do the rest of my email - start out with chicken for 2-3
weeks....
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

7f. Re: New -just registered
Posted by: "pattykat3" pattykat3@yahoo.com pattykat3
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 4:33 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "piccolo_mom" <bmartell@...> wrote:

> Are there any owners of Yorkies here or other very small dogs ?
> I don't know how to start and need your help.
> Please, please tell me what to do.
> Thank you very much in advance.
>
Hi Barb,
I have a pomeranian--he is 13 lbs. I started him on this diet 3
weeks ago. After suffering from 3 bouts with pancreatitis, and having
to have 6 teeth pulled on one side--he is doing absolutely great on
the raw meat and bones. I would suggest offering your little dog
something like a chicken back, to begin with. It has a fair amount of
bones and meat, plus occasionally some kidneys included. The best way
to start is just to start. I lay his food on an old towel, on the
floor near my computer (so I can watch him while he eats). Be
patient, it may take a while for him to figure out what to do with his
food (it took my dog about 10 minutes of circling and licking before
he really got into it). This list has helped me so much. Hope I have
helped you.
:-) Patty

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

7g. Re: New -just registered
Posted by: "Renate" renate.tideswell@gmail.com tideswell_renate
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 4:36 pm ((PDT))

I'm just saying that 3/4lb is more like what I would feed my 25lb poodle
cross,not a 4 lb dog. I'm relying on the math here. Cause I have a 10lb
tzu that is just begging for more food all the time even though he gets more
than 1/4lb a day. He is not exactly slim either. Of course I'm assuming
her yorkie is an adult and at his adult weight.
R

On 10/22/07, bluegracepwd <janea@tpg.com.au> wrote:
>
> Hey Renate,
>
> I have a couple of toy poodles, the smallest of which is around 4lbs.
> I will often give her chicken thighs and chicken legs. What she
> doesn't finish is picked up by one of the other dogs.
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

8a. Were do you get Green Tripe
Posted by: "Sara Buchanan 03218B" judge742@yahoo.com judge742
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 3:18 pm ((PDT))

I would like to know were you get green tripe and turkey backs and
other things mentioned. I'm getting ready to start a raw diet on my
Chocolate Labs and want to do it right.

Sara

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________

8b. Re: Were do you get Green Tripe
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 3:31 pm ((PDT))

Sara,

Most items (other than green tripe) can be found right in your grocery store
or an ethnic market. No need to search for backs by
themselves....concentrate on whole chickens or turkeys rather than bony
parts.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Sara Buchanan 03218B" <judge742@yahoo.com>

I would like to know were you get green tripe and turkey backs and
other things mentioned. I'm getting ready to start a raw diet on my
Chocolate Labs and want to do it right.

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

9a. Re: New to raw - made mistakes - need help
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 3:42 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "cwnsc" <cwells5@...> wrote:
He is 74#s
> and I am feeding 1 split chicken qtr. once a day which I believe is
> a small meal for his weight?
>

Hi Cindy,
Unless you have monster chickens, 1 chicken quarter fed once a day is
definitely not a large meal for a 74lb dog. I assume you are feeding
this amount to feed a "light" meal while you try to get the diarrhea
under control? Your dog might do better, however, if you feed more
often than once a day for a little while. Less food coming means less
food to digest- you know, a lighter work load for him. How about
feeding 1 bone in chicken breast in the morning and one at night? If
that goes good, you could include a little more food at each meal for
a few days. Once things are good, you can cut back to one meal a day
again. Might be a good plan, KathyM

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

All information on this list represents personal opinion only. By staying on this list, you agree to never hold anyone from this list or associated with this list liable for any information posted through this list. You agree to take personal responsibility for your learning, and for personal responsibility for what you feed yourself, your family, and your dogs, cats, ferrets, or any other animal that lives under your care. If you don't agree, please unsubscribe immediately.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/

<*> Your email settings:
Digest Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/join

(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:rawfeeding-normal@yahoogroups.com
mailto:rawfeeding-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
rawfeeding-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:

http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

------------------------------------------------------------------------

[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12188

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Hi - New Here!
From: Deborah
1b. Re: Hi - New Here!
From: katkellm
1c. Re: Hi - New Here!
From: carnesbill

2a. Re: Raw Feeding--No Bone
From: merril Woolf

3a. Re: older dog having difficulty digesting bone
From: costrowski75

4a. Re: RMB
From: carnesbill

5a. still hungry
From: goldenbearnwolf
5b. Re: still hungry
From: Andrea

6a. Chicken Legs
From: hungrymoses
6b. Re: Chicken Legs
From: Andrea

7a. New to raw - made mistakes - need help
From: cwnsc
7b. Re: New to raw - made mistakes - need help
From: Andrea
7c. Re: New to raw - made mistakes - need help
From: katkellm
7d. Re: New to raw - made mistakes - need help
From: Tina Berry
7e. Re: New to raw - made mistakes - need help
From: Doguefan@aol.com
7f. Re: New to raw - made mistakes - need help
From: cwnsc

8a. New Lab pup, self-regulating????
From: Sonja
8b. Re: New Lab pup, self-regulating????
From: Andrea
8c. Re: New Lab pup, self-regulating????
From: Sonja
8d. Re: New Lab pup, self-regulating????
From: Andrea

9a. Re: help!!! we're pregnant and not sure how/what to feed
From: Tina Berry

10. Kind of OT: Picture of dogs in deer carcass
From: Joanne Thompson

11a. Re: How do you deal w/ vets that blame raw diet
From: blue eyed

12. OT: list for general dog questions with a holistic slant
From: mmc2315

13. new puppy need help
From: akhwbj1

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Hi - New Here!
Posted by: "Deborah" debbs_dave@yahoo.co.uk debbs_dave
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 6:24 am ((PDT))

MODERATOR'S NOTE: PLEASE REMEMBER TO SIGN YOUR MESSAGES.

I have a five month old Doberman male pup - I've been feeding him Eagle
Pack Large Breed Puppy Food, plus he gets bones and rawhide chews. He
is very healthy, but his breath is not just smelly, it's horrible.

If he licks me (he likes to lick ears.. :) I can literally smell it on
myself, I was putting it down to puppy teething but now I'm not so sure!

Thus the search for a cause, and I found rawfeeding.com, and from there
to here!

So.. I'll be listening and learning. One question - I have small
livestock - chickens and goats. If I start feeding raw chicken, will I
creat a chicken killer?

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

1b. Re: Hi - New Here!
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 6:56 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Deborah" <debbs_dave@...> wrote:
I have small
> livestock - chickens and goats. If I start feeding raw chicken, will I
> creat a chicken killer?

Hi Deborah,
Welcome. Its nice to meet you and your Doberman pup.
Check this out

http://rawfed.com/colbythekiller.html. As you read the
archives and posts, please feel free to ask questions. That's why we
are here.
KathyM

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

1c. Re: Hi - New Here!
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 7:15 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Deborah" <debbs_dave@...> wrote:
>
> He
> is very healthy, but his breath is not just smelly, it's horrible.

His bad breath is telling you that he is NOT "very healthy". He
propably had periodontal disease. Changing to a raw diet will most
likely eliminate this in less than a month with no intervention by a
vet.

> So.. I'll be listening and learning. One question - I have small
> livestock - chickens and goats. If I start feeding raw chicken,
> will I creat a chicken killer?

Prey drive determines whether you will have a chicken killer or
not. Diet does not affect prey drive.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

2a. Re: Raw Feeding--No Bone
Posted by: "merril Woolf" merril@kentfieldwhippets.com whippetsrus2002
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 6:36 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "windmilldairy" <drwindmill@...> wrote:
>
> I butchered a cow, and didn't save any bone. Most of the bone seemed too hard for my
dogs.
> Can I get by feeding just the beef and no bone to my bulldog and rat terrier?
>
> Thanks
>
> Pat

We butcher cows for the dogs also, but I still feed chicken backs and other meats with edible
bone to make up for the lack of bone in all the beef we feed.

If you feed bone from other sources, you should be OK.

Merril

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

3a. Re: older dog having difficulty digesting bone
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 6:52 am ((PDT))

"Kim" <two-pups@...> wrote:
> I know she needs bone for the calcium, etc, but I don't want the
poor
> girl throwing up everytime she has bone.
>
> Is this common in older dogs? Does anyone have any suggestions?
For
> exaple, should I stop giving her bone and add supplements?
*****
My seniors had problems eating the bones, but once in there was no
particular bone-specific digestion issues. And IMO nine and a half
is not old. What other health issues are present?

My first thought is perhaps you are feeding too much bone. A pork
neck is rarely a meaty-enough meal, so while the meal size may "suit"
her needs, most of it is bone. You may also be feeding chicken parts
that are too bony. My first recco would be to cut back on edible
bone.

I also recommend you review any changes in meal times, suppliers--
lifestyle changes that might affect her eating habits. Stress is a
great one for screwing up patterns.

Check her teeth/mouth to make sure something's not awry in there.
She might be swallowing large what she once crunched down. If the
bones are going down bigger than before she's more likely to be
digestively done with them before they're small enough to move on.

You could also try a digestive enzyme but since the issue is neither
animal nor vegetable but is mineral, I'm not sure what digestive
enzyme would be appropriate. But even if a DE is successful, it does
not identify what's behind the change.

IMO if there's nothing changed in her life and there's nothing
damaged in her mouth and a reduction in edible bone/addition of meat
does not address the issue, you might want to consider a full blood
panel to make sure her chemistry is good. If suddenly a dog cannot
digest what it used to, something is going on.

Oh, one last thing. Throwing up bits of undigested bone is a very
healthy way to get rid of the irritation. It is when dem bones move
neither up nor down that problems can occur. I can understand why
the process worries you but truly--unless she's experiencing physical
or mental trauma, it's not nearly as harmful as not doing it.

Please let us know what you discover.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

4a. Re: RMB
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 6:57 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Giselle <megan.giselle@...> wrote:
>
> Hi, Christina!
> It used to be free to dl, but now they charge for it.
> Contact me by private email, and I'll share my copy with you.

Giselle,
Sending people copywrited files is called "Piracy" and is illegal. It
is stealing intellectual property. You can and will get jail time for
that plus pay a very large fine.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (9)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

5a. still hungry
Posted by: "goldenbearnwolf" goldenbearnwolf@aol.com goldenbearnwolf
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 7:15 am ((PDT))

OK, maybe my dog is a pig. I have a 115 lb shepard mix who I have just
switched to raw food over the past few weeks. He LOVES It! Eats
everything I give him. I have been giving him the appropriate amount of
food for his weight, but he keeps asking for more. He wants to be fed 3-
4 times a day. Is it normal when switching that he would be extra
hungry? He's fine for several hours after I feed him & then comes
asking for more. Oh yea, he asks. He comes & bumps us with his long wet
schnozzle!
Other than that, it seems to be working great! His teeth are cleaner,
his breath is better, his allergies seem to have vanished.
Thanks to everyone for their wonderful information!
Lisa

Messages in this topic (12)
________________________________________________________________________

5b. Re: still hungry
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 7:38 am ((PDT))

Geiger was the king of the "I'm starving" face for the first year of
his life! I had a really hard time not overfeeding him until I noticed
how fat he had become (of course, fat to me is still "normal" compared
to most ki**lefed dogs). The new pup, Tycho, was a stray so he was
pretty serious about eating as much as he could as often as he could.
After the first two months he really calmed down about food, though. I
think our pets are afraid at first that we'll change our minds and stop
feeding the wonderful food. Once they get that the good stuff comes
every day they seem to calm down a lot.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "goldenbearnwolf"
<goldenbearnwolf@...> wrote:

> He wants to be fed 3-4 times a day. Is it normal when switching
> that he would be extra hungry?

Messages in this topic (12)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

6a. Chicken Legs
Posted by: "hungrymoses" hungrymoses@yahoo.com hungrymoses
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 9:13 am ((PDT))

+++Mod note: please sign all emails +++++++++++

Hi there,

I'm new to raw feeding and have been feeding my dog chicken legs. I
noticed a pretty sharp bone in one of his poops. Should I be
concerned??

Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________

6b. Re: Chicken Legs
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 9:27 am ((PDT))

Newbie dogs often take a little while to completely digest the bone
they eat. Give it time and the bone bits will probably disappear from
the poo. You could also feed through a whole chicken so the dog gets
some more meaty sections in addition to just legs.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "hungrymoses" <hungrymoses@...>
wrote:

> I'm new to raw feeding and have been feeding my dog chicken legs. I
> noticed a pretty sharp bone in one of his poops. Should I be
> concerned??
>

Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

7a. New to raw - made mistakes - need help
Posted by: "cwnsc" cwells5@charter.net cwnsc
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 9:51 am ((PDT))

Hi!

My 3 yr old GR has been on raw 8 days. 1st day was chicken but
introduced variety of foods daily during the week and gave him liver
Wednesday. I realize my mistake and both us are paying the
consequences. I saw other posts of giving only chicken the 1st 2
weeks and not introduce organs for 2 months. Any idea how long it will
take his tummy to settle down. The diarrhea is bad. He has had only
chicken the last 4 days with no skin and fat removed.

Thanks
Cindy

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________

7b. Re: New to raw - made mistakes - need help
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 10:07 am ((PDT))

You might want to fast him for a day to let things settle down.
Slippery elm bark can be given as well to soothe the digestive system.
Make sure you aren't feeding too much food as well. Let us know how it
goes.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "cwnsc" <cwells5@...> wrote:

> My 3 yr old GR has been on raw 8 days. 1st day was chicken but
> introduced variety of foods daily during the week and gave him liver
> Wednesday. I realize my mistake and both us are paying the
> consequences.

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________

7c. Re: New to raw - made mistakes - need help
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 10:32 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "cwnsc" <cwells5@...> wrote:
The diarrhea is bad. He has had only
> chicken the last 4 days with no skin and fat removed.
Hi Cindy,
After fasting for a day, you might want to begin feeding again with
smaller, more frequent meals. KathyM

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________

7d. Re: New to raw - made mistakes - need help
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 11:02 am ((PDT))

"The diarrhea is bad. He has had only chicken the last 4 days with no skin
and fat removed."

I've had good luck with adding a couple tablespoons of 100% pure raw pumpkin
(not the pie filling, but it's located next to the pie filling). Stops
diarrhea and/or constipation within a couple of days or so.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________

7e. Re: New to raw - made mistakes - need help
Posted by: "Doguefan@aol.com" Doguefan@aol.com knoxkennels
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 11:02 am ((PDT))

Cindy-? you might give him some canned pumpkin or some slippery elm bark to help the loose stool subside.? Then, yes, you need to stickto just one proteinfor a little while until he gets used to it.? When you start adding organs, especially liver, you have to start with the tiniest amounts...

Chels

-----Original Message-----
From: cwnsc <cwells5@charter.net>
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 9:19 am
Subject: [rawfeeding] New to raw - made mistakes - need help

Hi!

Thanks
Cindy

________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________

7f. Re: New to raw - made mistakes - need help
Posted by: "cwnsc" cwells5@charter.net cwnsc
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 12:35 pm ((PDT))

Thank you for the advice and I certainly will try it. He is 74#s
and I am feeding 1 split chicken qtr. once a day which I believe is
a small meal for his weight?

Cindy

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Doguefan@... wrote:
>
> Cindy-? you might give him some canned pumpkin or some slippery
elm bark to help the loose stool subside.? Then, yes, you need to
stickto just one proteinfor a little while until he gets used to
it.? When you start adding organs, especially liver, you have to
start with the tiniest amounts...
>
> Chels
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cwnsc <cwells5@...>
> To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 9:19 am
> Subject: [rawfeeding] New to raw - made mistakes - need help
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi!
>
> My 3 yr old GR has been on raw 8 days. 1st day was chicken but
> introduced variety of foods daily during the week and gave him
liver
> Wednesday. I realize my mistake and both us are paying the
> consequences. I saw other posts of giving only chicken the 1st 2
> weeks and not introduce organs for 2 months. Any idea how long it
will
> take his tummy to settle down. The diarrhea is bad. He has had
only
> chicken the last 4 days with no skin and fat removed.
>
> Thanks
> Cindy
>
>
>
>
>
>
_____________________________________________________________________
___
> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL
Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

8a. New Lab pup, self-regulating????
Posted by: "Sonja" ladyver@sbcglobal.net lonepalm77
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 9:51 am ((PDT))

We brought home a new (kibble fed) Lab puppy on Wednesday night. She's just over 15 weeks old, 30 pounds. She had plenty of weight on her when we picked her up, so when she picked at the raw food Thursday and Friday, we weren't too worried. Over the weekend she figured out that raw food IS food, and she loves it!

So here's my stupid question....I know I should feed her 3 times a day, but she doesn't finish her morning meal, refuses her mid-day meal, and won't finish her evening meal either. I'm feeding her roughly 2-1/4 lbs a day, but she's not eating it all. Are puppies pretty good with self-regulating? I'm used to labs devouring everything that doesn't move so this is quite a change to have a puppy that's clearly done eating with food still left in front of her....
I figure as long as her weight is good I shouldn't worry too much about whether or not she refuses the mid-day feeding. Any thoughts?

Sonja

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________

8b. Re: New Lab pup, self-regulating????
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 10:04 am ((PDT))

I encountered the same problem with my newf mix puppy. I offered him
food three times a day but he would pick at the morning meal, eat a lot
the second meal and then refuse dinner. At first he had loose stools
from the one big meal but within a few days his stools firmed up. I
would have liked him to eat three times a day, but he decided it just
wasn't his style. If your pup digests all the food well I would let
her eat as she wants. Keep an eye on her stool and make sure she is
digesting everything properly, though.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sonja" <ladyver@...> wrote:

I know I should feed her 3 times a day, but she doesn't finish her
morning meal, refuses her mid-day meal, and won't finish her evening
meal either. I'm feeding her roughly 2-1/4 lbs a day, but she's not
eating it all. Are puppies pretty good with self-regulating?

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________

8c. Re: New Lab pup, self-regulating????
Posted by: "Sonja" ladyver@sbcglobal.net lonepalm77
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 11:21 am ((PDT))

I expected that raw probably wouldn't sit well with her at first and expected a bit of upset the first few days. We had a few bad cases of diarrhea up until this morning when it finally came out normal. We had started with cornish game hens and I upped the bone with a turkey neck. I was iffy about adding another protein so quickly, but it's what I had. That's when we finally got our first normal stool. I know diarherra with puppies is a big deal, but she was drinking enough and she only had 2 episodes per day. It was nothing like the 10+ trips a day that I take with our other lab when she eats something that doesn't agree with her!

Should I wait a week before adding a new protein or can I throw in chunks of variety here and there as long as it's being well tolerated?

Sonja

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________

8d. Re: New Lab pup, self-regulating????
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 11:41 am ((PDT))

Puppies tend to accept variety pretty quickly, but of course it is a
dog by dog thing. Both of my pups accepted variety pretty quickly with
minimal loose stools. New meats usually mean room clearing farts but
that's about it. Heart and tongue are ones I would definitely say go
slowly. I did make sure they only got one new thing per meal, and I
let a couple of days go by to make sure things were ok before I added
anything else.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sonja" <ladyver@...> wrote:

> Should I wait a week before adding a new protein or can I throw in
chunks of variety here and there as long as it's being well tolerated?

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

9a. Re: help!!! we're pregnant and not sure how/what to feed
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 10:32 am ((PDT))

"you can continue to feed the same but more of it. Include an appropriate
amount of dietary bone and organs and expect that at some point as your girl
has less room for a big bellyfull that she'll reject bones and look for more
meat, including organs."

Ditto. About 2 weeks before whelping, mine declined bones and wanted more
organs.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

10. Kind of OT: Picture of dogs in deer carcass
Posted by: "Joanne Thompson" tho0123@earthlink.net black_diamond_kennels
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 11:02 am ((PDT))

Does anyone remember who it was that sent the picture of the little dogs
eating in the deer carcass? I want to send it to some friends.

Thanks,

Joanne Thompson
Black Diamond Kennels
Working Giant Schnauzers
Bellvue, CO 80512

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

11a. Re: How do you deal w/ vets that blame raw diet
Posted by: "blue eyed" eyed_blue@yahoo.co.uk eyed_blue
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 12:19 pm ((PDT))

My vet(s) thinks that my dog should be on a complete diet as its 'got everything they need' They would say that, since going on raw his cysts have disapeared (no more antibiotics and steroids needed for that) No more eye problems (no more drops and consultations for that) and his 'colitis' has disapeared (no more supplements and Royal Canin tins for that then!) and he has the most glossy coat, he is also much more 'trainable' and calm (not to mention a noticeable lack of body odour)

One of the vets heard me say this to their receptionist (in reply to her comment on how good he was looking/behaving - he had become a bit of a regular there!) and they (vet) said it was just his age! I dont know any Dobermann puppy that calms down at 8 or 9 months! (and has all the symptoms mentioned until a certain age!) I have learned that there was nothing wrong with my dog as he is perfectly happy and healthy now, just an inappropriate diet that had caused some problems.

I just told the truth, he was doing great and I think its best for him as there are many improvements in him and his behaviour, so he will be staying on it. End of.

At the end of the day, they dont live with the dog, you do, you are only paying them for their medical expertise when the dog needs it so thats all you need, not their personal opinion on raw feeding.

All I can do is tell you what I done about it but hopefully you will find it helpful,

Regards,

Natalie

---------------------------------
Yahoo! Answers - Get better answers from someone who knows. Tryit now.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (26)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

12. OT: list for general dog questions with a holistic slant
Posted by: "mmc2315" m.chelap@sbcglobal.net mmc2315
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 12:19 pm ((PDT))

Hi everyone, can you recommend another list (sister list perhaps?) where I can ask some dog
questions about health, general care, etc.? Something with a holistic approach, as we are
looking for alternatives to standard heartworm prevention, etc.

Thanks,

Michelle, new owner to a little 10 # terrier mix from the shelter. We love him! :)

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

13. new puppy need help
Posted by: "akhwbj1" akhwbj1@yahoo.com akhwbj1
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 12:19 pm ((PDT))

We just got a boston terrier from our best friends because their little girl was allergic. He is 3 months old and started puking on my boyfriend last friday night....to make things short he spent the weekend in puppy ICU ad we still dont know whats wrong. After we brought him home he still was throwing up. My boyfriends mom feeds her boxers raw and i switched Oscr to raw to see if that will help. We are only three days in and it is already better. He hasnt thrown up or anything. My question is: how much should we be feedin him. My boyfriends mom is watching him throughout the day and she said he ate a whole chicken leg quarter this morning. He is not getting sick but is he eating to much. I hav heard to let him eat until he moves away and then u know he is done....but i just need some advice. Thanks Alecia, Brandon, and Oscar

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/

<*> Your email settings:
Digest Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/join

(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:

http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

------------------------------------------------------------------------

[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12187

There are 5 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Rats
From: Giselle

2a. Re: [rawfeeding] Raw-feeder from China needs help£¡£¡£¡£¡10-we
From: Giselle

3a. RMB
From: maurwyck
3b. Re: RMB
From: Giselle

4a. Re: How do you deal w/ vets that blame raw diet
From: Nataly A

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Re: Rats
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sun Oct 21, 2007 10:12 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Susanne!
Well, its seems to me that hairless critters can have
parasites, even fleas, too.

If you obtained breeding rats, or rabbits or guinea pigs, or whatever, if
they were in good condition, I'm supposing that they wouldn't have fleas.
And, if they got fleas, you could just treat them and their environment with
diatomaceous earth, and Wa-La! No fleas!

Treating the house, the outdoors, feed animals and the dogs with de can get
rid of an infestation. You can also feed de to divest your dogs and feed
animals of internal parasites.

You could raise chickens. I don't think they get fleas, but they do get
mites, which can be treated with de, too.

There are sites and lists you can access to learn about raising meat rabbits
and chickens, and other critters, too.
Just do some Googling, and look up key words on the Yahoo! Groups site, and
you'll find them. You can probably even find local breeders of prey animals
in your area this way.

TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

<snip>
>
> >>A question; How do you know that hairless rats don't get
> fleas?>>>
>
> I don't know, can fleas be hairless too :)
>
> <<<And, what other criteria would you use to decide on a rat variety
> to raise for prey for your dogs?>>>
>
> Well, rats are so easy to raise and produce in mass, it wouldn't be a
> major meat in their diet. When I do some trapping I normally get
> wood rats and they have fleas. I hate the idea of fleas even coming
> or getting close to my house, so trying to find more sources of
> rodents. We already get squirrel and rabbit. Any suggestions??
>
> I had a young pup or pups (don't know who got it) last summer that
> caught a rat out in the yard. It seemed that they played with a bit
> before eating it. Well, short story, I got a really BIG flea
> problem after that. Had to wash 10 pups and 2 adults, it takes half
> the day and wash once a weeks until the problems was over. Not fun
> at all. Sprayed the house and the whole yard and they couldn't come
> in the house for awhile.
>
> Thanks,
> Susanne, Courtney & the Dane Gang (Zoe, Wilson, Annie & the Rescues)
>
> Life is grand when you love a Dane. Have you licked your Dane
> today?:P
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

2a. Re: [rawfeeding] Raw-feeder from China needs help£¡£¡£¡£¡10-we
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sun Oct 21, 2007 10:39 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Cher!
Uh, if the pup is healthy otherwise, he may just have a huge worm
load. Big pot bellies in pups can be a sign of worms.

You can treat with food grade de. I'm not sure of the dosage for a young
pup.
http://www.dirtworks.net/Diatomaceous-Earth.html#anchorD20
(doses listed at the end of the page)

Three or four times a day feeding sounds about right, but if he has worms,
especially tapes, they'll be taking up all the nourishment he takes in, and
he'll still be ravenously hungry, no matter how much you feed him. And,
there won't be much to poop out, as the tapes will be taking up all the
nourishment and not leaving much waste.

You can look for worms in the poop and bedding; tapes look like rice, white
or pinkish.
http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_tapeworm.html

You will probably only see round worms, whip worms, or hook worms in the
stool after treatment.
roundworms;
http://www.marvistavet.com/html/roundworms_in_dogs___puppies.html
hookworms;
http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_hookworms.html
whipworms;
http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_whipworms.html

Your English is fine! There were three characters that I didn't understand,
maybe the first meant family?

TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

<snip>
>
>
> Ten days ago, we had a new member ¨C a puppy, which I don¡¯t know
> exactly how old, but I guess two months old since he has 28 baby teeth
> now. I have been feeding raw chicken, beef, duck and pork to him since
> the second day. The little guy loves his raw diet so much that he sits
> and waits every time I go into the kitchen.
>
> The problem is that his poo seems abnormal ¨C I mean, too little. And
> it seems to me his belly is kind of swelling ¨C don¡¯t know how a
> puppy¡¯s belly looks like. The last time he pooed was last Friday. So
> it¡¯s been nearly three days he hasn¡¯t had any bowel movement. I fed
> him three times a day in the first four days and four times a day in
> the past few days coz he seems always hungry. However, the more I
> feed, the less he poos! Other than that, he looks fine, as playful as
> usual.
>

<snip>

>
> Any input would be appreciated!Hope you guy can understand my Chinglish!
>
> Cher
> A mother of three four-legged kids from China
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

3a. RMB
Posted by: "maurwyck" Maurwyck@hotmail.com maurwyck
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:03 am ((PDT))

Hello
There was a lnik I found and it was to download the Raw Meaty Bone
book. I can't seem to find it now. I have found the book but it's all
to buy. does anyone have the link?

Christina

Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________

3b. Re: RMB
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 3:28 am ((PDT))

Hi, Christina!
It used to be free to dl, but now they charge for it.
Contact me by private email, and I'll share my copy with you.
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

On 10/22/07, maurwyck <Maurwyck@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hello
> There was a link I found and it was to download the Raw Meaty Bone
> book. I can't seem to find it now. I have found the book but it's all
> to buy. does anyone have the link?
>
> Christina
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

4a. Re: How do you deal w/ vets that blame raw diet
Posted by: "Nataly A" rap_squad@yahoo.com rap_squad
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 4:20 am ((PDT))

I always find funny that people talk to me about sickness or germs from the raw food when there at least 5 cases of mass-deaths/injuries from commercial foods in the past 2 years alone.
I would have asked the nice nurse if she tells the owners kibble fed dogs to stop feeding kibble when their dogs come to the clinic with allergies, intestinal problems, crystals in the urinary tract, obisity etc.
i bet not.

Nat.

----- Original Message ----
From: Annaliisa Readman <amvilppu@hotmail.com>
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 2:12:17 AM
Subject: [rawfeeding] Re: How do you deal w/ vets that blame raw diet

Has anyone had experience with their dogs getting sick from their meat? Just curious.

Recent Activity
100New Members
Visit Your Group
Sell Online
Start selling with
our award-winning
e-commerce tools.
Yahoo! Groups
Moderator Central
Connecting a world
of moderators.
HDTV Support
The official Samsung
Y! Group for HDTVs
and devices..

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around

http://mail.yahoo.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (25)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/

<*> Your email settings:
Digest Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/join

(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:

http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

------------------------------------------------------------------------