[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12189

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. When to switch to raw?
From: Ron Grill
1b. Re: When to switch to raw?
From: Sandee Lee
1c. Re: When to switch to raw?
From: Tina Berry

2a. Re: OT: list for general dog questions with a holistic slant
From: ginny wilken
2b. Re: OT: list for general dog questions with a holistic slant
From: Sandee Lee

3.1. Re: Pork
From: Morledzep@aol.com

4a. Re: Coaxing to gnaw bone
From: alicia.fagan

5a. Puppy growth too rapid?
From: Gayle
5b. Re: Puppy growth too rapid?
From: Josephine Morningstar
5c. Re: Puppy growth too rapid?
From: Tina Berry
5d. Re: Puppy growth too rapid?
From: Gayle
5e. Re: Puppy growth too rapid?
From: Tina Berry
5f. Re: Puppy growth too rapid?
From: Laura Atkinson

6a. Re: still hungry
From: Kevin Brown
6b. Re: still hungry
From: Tina Berry

7a. New -just registered
From: piccolo_mom
7b. Re: New -just registered
From: Tina Berry
7c. Re: New -just registered
From: Renate
7d. Re: New -just registered
From: bluegracepwd
7e. Re: New -just registered
From: Tina Berry
7f. Re: New -just registered
From: pattykat3
7g. Re: New -just registered
From: Renate

8a. Were do you get Green Tripe
From: Sara Buchanan 03218B
8b. Re: Were do you get Green Tripe
From: Sandee Lee

9a. Re: New to raw - made mistakes - need help
From: katkellm

Messages
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1a. When to switch to raw?
Posted by: "Ron Grill" wildrose_kangals@yahoo.ca wildrose_kangals
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 12:35 pm ((PDT))

Hello,

I am about to get a bitch who is bred. She will be about 3 weeks along
in her pregnancy. Can I switch her to raw or should I wait till after
the birth of the pups?

Thanks,
Ron

Messages in this topic (3)
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1b. Re: When to switch to raw?
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:05 pm ((PDT))

By all means, switch immediately. What better time to provide optimal
nutrition?

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Ron Grill" <wildrose_kangals@yahoo.ca>

I am about to get a bitch who is bred. She will be about 3 weeks along
in her pregnancy. Can I switch her to raw or should I wait till after
the birth of the pups?

Messages in this topic (3)
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1c. Re: When to switch to raw?
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 3:17 pm ((PDT))

"She will be about 3 weeks along in her pregnancy. Can I switch her to raw
or should I wait till after
the birth of the pups?"

I agree - switch her right away - it will be healthier for her and her
pups. Start off with whole chickens cut in half for the first 2-3 weeks;
then starting adding other meats. She will crave organ meats and no bone
towards the end of her pregnancy. And no, I don't give any extra
supplements to my pregnant dogs; just the ol' 80% meat, 10% bone 10% organ
ratios. I do add a daily egg with fish oil for their coats.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
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2a. Re: OT: list for general dog questions with a holistic slant
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 12:47 pm ((PDT))

On Oct 22, 2007, at 11:55 AM, mmc2315 wrote:

> Hi everyone, can you recommend another list (sister list perhaps?)
> where I can ask some dog
> questions about health, general care, etc.? Something with a
> holistic approach, as we are
> looking for alternatives to standard heartworm prevention, etc.
>

Sure!

RawChat

jstsayno2vaccs

TruthAboutVaccines

ClassicalHomeopathyPets

all at Yahoogroups.

Then there's doghealth, but I don't recommend them because they are
not holistic enough and haven't got their story straight.

ginny and Tomo

All stunts performed without a net!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
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2b. Re: OT: list for general dog questions with a holistic slant
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 12:51 pm ((PDT))

TruthAboutVaccines....
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TruthAboutVaccines

"This group is dedicated to providing information about the damages of
vaccinations for pets. The goal of the group is to help pet caretakers stop
the unnecessary vaccination of our animals. Other related subjects such as
alternative medicines,human vaccines and childhood vaccination, alternatives
to flea, tick, and Heartworm prevention will also be discussed."

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "mmc2315" <m.chelap@sbcglobal.net>

Hi everyone, can you recommend another list (sister list perhaps?) where I
can ask some dog
questions about health, general care, etc.? Something with a holistic
approach, as we are
looking for alternatives to standard heartworm prevention, etc.

Messages in this topic (3)
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3.1. Re: Pork
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 12:59 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 10/21/2007 6:07:34 PM Pacific Standard Time,
renate.tideswell@gmail.com writes:

The shoulder roast is from the top of the front legs, and the butt is from
the top of the back legs. Presumably the legs are all in synch, so as far
as toughness or tenderness, go, I think its pretty well the same LOL

****actually, shoulders are butt roasts and the rear legs are called hams.
Whether they are smoked, cured or raw, the rear legs are ALL called hams or
whole legs. and whole raw hams usually weigh in around 20 lbs each. And take a
good half an hour to whack into meal size hunks for 9 hungry dogs..

Catherine R.

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (52)
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4a. Re: Coaxing to gnaw bone
Posted by: "alicia.fagan" alicia.fagan@yahoo.com alicia.fagan
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:21 pm ((PDT))

Giselle, great tips, thanks so much! Will let you know how it goes.

Alicia

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Giselle <megan.giselle@...> wrote:
>
> Hi, Alicia!
> Welcome!
>
> Getting out of the mindset that 'dogs must be fed in a dog dish' can
help
> your dog to learn to eat raw. F

Messages in this topic (7)
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5a. Puppy growth too rapid?
Posted by: "Gayle" gayle@gayleturner.net gayle28607
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:22 pm ((PDT))

Hi,

I started my French brittany pup on RMB three weeks ago when he was 11 weeks old and
15.6 pounds. Today, at 14 weeks, he weighs 19.8 pounds. His biggest weight gain was on
kibble between 8 and 11 weeks when he gained 7 pounds. Should I cut back on what I am
feeding him now? The rate of gain at least is a bit slower.

His adult weight shouldn't be much more than about 40 pounds - at least according to the
breed standard. Yikes! He is already half way there. I feed him three times per day, chicken
only until a few days ago when I added pork. He eats what he wants and then stops.

To me he looks lean but not skinny. His ribs are not super visible though, but I can feel all
of them very easily. With RMB I was hoping for the slow puppy growth that is so good for
their adult health. I am so surpised to find out he weighs this much, and wonder what all
of you think about whether I should regulate his food more. I had figured out that half a
small chicken or the leg quarters I usually get would be about .8 pounds, but sometimes
lately he has been eating the whole leg quarter for breakfast! So I give him more at lunch...

What do you all think?

Gayle and Chakotay

Messages in this topic (6)
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5b. Re: Puppy growth too rapid?
Posted by: "Josephine Morningstar" josephine.morningstar@gmail.com jomorningstar
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:36 pm ((PDT))

I had always been taught that it was 2% to 3% of their ideal weight and that
if feeding more then once per day.. that the TOTAL day amt should not exceed
the 2% to 3 % per body weight.

I also know that if young puppies grow too fast, they have more joint
problems later on in life.

if the ideal adult weight is 40 lbs and at 14 weeks he is nearly half way
there.. I would tend to believe that he is getting too much..

but then.. im only going on what i have read here and on other raw prey diet
websites and do not have personal experience with either a puppy nor one of
that breed.

good luck.. i hope others jump in.. i answered as i know how frustrating it
can be to pose a question that is very important to you and not get an
answer very soon.

jo

On 10/22/07, Gayle <gayle@gayleturner.net> wrote:
>
> . I had figured out that half a small chicken or the leg quarters I
> usually get would be about .8 pounds, but sometimes lately he has been
> eating the whole leg quarter for breakfast! So I give him more at lunch...
>
>
--
Josephine MorningStar & Heather, Pyr, Mobility & MASD
Native American in Massachusetts

Never threaten anyone. It ruins the surprise.
www.apachecreations.com

By Believing, One Sees.
Faith precedes the Miracle

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
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5c. Re: Puppy growth too rapid?
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 3:18 pm ((PDT))

"To me he looks lean but not skinny. His ribs are not super visible though,
but I can feel all of them very easily."

Then you are doing just fine; puppies go through rapid growth periods, but
on raw it usually isn't as noticeable, but I wouldn't be worried if he looks
good, feels good, etc.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
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5d. Re: Puppy growth too rapid?
Posted by: "Gayle" gayle@gayleturner.net gayle28607
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 3:18 pm ((PDT))

Thanks, Jo.

This is my concern, too. I guess if we are looking at 3% , the total daily RMB would be 1.2 lbs.
I hope others will chime in here. Because he isn't fat - at all - maybe I just have to trust
mother nature, and assume I'm going to have a bigger boy than usual, or one who is
having an early growth spurt. But gosh, half his adult weight at 14 weeks? My, my. He does
have what some have remarked on as "huge feet."

I'm going to watch his ribs closely, and maybe ease off on the food a little bit to push him
toward skinny, unless I hear otherwise from folks on the list.

Gayle and Chakotay

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Josephine Morningstar" <josephine.morningstar@...>
wrote:
>
> I also know that if young puppies grow too fast, they have more joint
> problems later on in life.

Messages in this topic (6)
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5e. Re: Puppy growth too rapid?
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 3:45 pm ((PDT))

OK, I just looked back at my puppy records and good news... my current 18
month olds, when they were 4 months they each weighed 50 lbs. So over half
their adult weight because my female looks like she'll probably top out at
85-90 lbs and my male is around 90lbs now and may top out at 100 but he's
shorter than his daddy so I don't think he will be 100.

And both are lean, nice muscle tone, no health issues and neither had any
bouts of pano (puppy arthritis) either and they are large boned.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
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5f. Re: Puppy growth too rapid?
Posted by: "Laura Atkinson" llatkinson@gmail.com lauraatkinson2002
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 4:03 pm ((PDT))

I'd just go with feel. I always start my puppies out at 3%, and end
up feeding them more than I *think* they should for longer than I
think I should. For instance, my 8 mo old bitch, who is about 20", is
still eating about 1 lb a day and not getting fat at all...she's just
that active (she also DEMANDS two meals a day, but I think that's a
training issue - she's got me trained!). In contrast, my 23 1/2 ",
top of standard boy, gets between 3/4 and 1lb a day. She's less than
40 lbs, he's closer to 60 lbs.

--
Laura A
Kaos Siberians http://www.kaossiberians.com
Forget love...I'd rather fall in chocolate.

Messages in this topic (6)
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6a. Re: still hungry
Posted by: "Kevin Brown" jerseykev@aol.com noblarneyzone
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:36 pm ((PDT))

your GS Mix is a very active dog, adjust his intake as you see fit.
Watch his body, if he looks good keep feeding him.

KB

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "goldenbearnwolf"
<goldenbearnwolf@...> wrote:
>
> OK, maybe my dog is a pig. I have a 115 lb shepard mix who I have
just
> switched to raw food over the past few weeks. He LOVES It! Eats
> everything I give him. I have been giving him the appropriate
amount of
> food for his weight, but he keeps asking for more. He wants to be
fed 3-
> 4 times a day. Is it normal when switching that he would be extra
> hungry? He's fine for several hours after I feed him & then comes
> asking for more. Oh yea, he asks. He comes & bumps us with his long
wet
> schnozzle!
> Other than that, it seems to be working great! His teeth are
cleaner,
> his breath is better, his allergies seem to have vanished.
> Thanks to everyone for their wonderful information!
> Lisa
>

Messages in this topic (14)
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6b. Re: still hungry
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:12 pm ((PDT))

"I have been giving him the appropriate amount of food for his weight, but
he keeps asking for more. He wants to be
fed 3-4 times a day."

How old is your dog? If he's not getting over weight, you can feed him
more. My 4 gsds vary from 18 months to 4 years old; they each eat once a
day 1.5 - 2lbs but they only weigh 85-97 lbs.

If your dog is over 1 yr; I would feed him once day but feed him what he
needs. IMO it's healthier for them to get a large meal workout then a 24
hour rest instead of their stomachs expecting food every 4 or so hours.
6-12 months old I would feed twice a day; but again, increase the meals to
what he needs. If you can't feel his ribs or see his last rib, then he's
getting heavy. Or if he looks too thin, increase his amounts.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (14)
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7a. New -just registered
Posted by: "piccolo_mom" bmartell@rogers.com piccolo_mom
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:12 pm ((PDT))

Hi all,

My name is Barb and I have a Yorkie - 2y old and his weight is 4lbs.
For two weeks I was reading everything I could find on this diet and
decided to try it. Piccolo is very healthy, never was sick even one day
and I don't want to do anything wrong.
Are there any owners of Yorkies here or other very small dogs ?
I don't know how to start and need your help.
Please, please tell me what to do.
Thank you very much in advance.

Messages in this topic (7)
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7b. Re: New -just registered
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 3:17 pm ((PDT))

"I don't know how to start and need your help. Please, please tell me what
to do."

We don't have small dogs, but regardless of the size, you could start yours
off with bone in chicken breast (cheaper to buy whole chickens on sale and
cut up) for the first 2-3 weeks. For 4lb dog; start off with 2% of his
weight (just over 3/4 lb daily) and then judge by his looks if you need to
feed more or less.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (7)
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7c. Re: New -just registered
Posted by: "Renate" renate.tideswell@gmail.com tideswell_renate
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 3:42 pm ((PDT))

That's way too much. I feed my 12lb tzu just over 1/4lb tiny dogs need tiny
bits of food. My smallest one is a 9lb tzu and I was giving her 1/4lb and
she was doing well, now she's in her 6th week preg, so it's a whole new
story, but there is no way a 4 lb dog should eat 3/4lb per day. I'm new
here too, but I have small dogs and have done the calcs.
Renate

On 10/22/07, Tina Berry <k9baron@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> "I don't know how to start and need your help. Please, please tell me
> what
> to do."
>
> We don't have small dogs, but regardless of the size, you could start
> yours
> off with bone in chicken breast (cheaper to buy whole chickens on sale and
> cut up) for the first 2-3 weeks. For 4lb dog; start off with 2% of his
> weight (just over 3/4 lb daily) and then judge by his looks if you need to
> feed more or less.
> --
> Tina Berry - MT
> Kriegshund German Shepherds
> Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
> www.kriegshundgsds.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (7)
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7d. Re: New -just registered
Posted by: "bluegracepwd" janea@tpg.com.au bluegracepwd
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 3:45 pm ((PDT))

Hey Renate,

I have a couple of toy poodles, the smallest of which is around 4lbs.
I will often give her chicken thighs and chicken legs. What she
doesn't finish is picked up by one of the other dogs.

I've never had an issue with my small dogs over eating on a raw diet.
I never weigh food, and the only way I know her weight is because she
is ridiculously small and outside the standard.

cheers

Jane

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Renate <renate.tideswell@...> wrote:
>
> That's way too much. I feed my 12lb tzu just over 1/4lb tiny dogs
need tiny
> bits of food. My smallest one is a 9lb tzu and I was giving her
1/4lb and
> she was doing well, now she's in her 6th week preg, so it's a whole
new
> story, but there is no way a 4 lb dog should eat 3/4lb per day. I'm
new
> here too, but I have small dogs and have done the calcs.
> Renate

Messages in this topic (7)
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7e. Re: New -just registered
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 4:33 pm ((PDT))

"My smallest one is a 9lb tzu and I was giving her 1/4lb and she was doing
well, now she's in her 6th week preg, so it's a whole new story, but there
is no way a 4 lb dog should eat 3/4lb per day."

Oh crap - you're right - 2% of 4lbs is .08 so I was way off. Sorry. But
you can still do the rest of my email - start out with chicken for 2-3
weeks....
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (7)
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7f. Re: New -just registered
Posted by: "pattykat3" pattykat3@yahoo.com pattykat3
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 4:33 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "piccolo_mom" <bmartell@...> wrote:

> Are there any owners of Yorkies here or other very small dogs ?
> I don't know how to start and need your help.
> Please, please tell me what to do.
> Thank you very much in advance.
>
Hi Barb,
I have a pomeranian--he is 13 lbs. I started him on this diet 3
weeks ago. After suffering from 3 bouts with pancreatitis, and having
to have 6 teeth pulled on one side--he is doing absolutely great on
the raw meat and bones. I would suggest offering your little dog
something like a chicken back, to begin with. It has a fair amount of
bones and meat, plus occasionally some kidneys included. The best way
to start is just to start. I lay his food on an old towel, on the
floor near my computer (so I can watch him while he eats). Be
patient, it may take a while for him to figure out what to do with his
food (it took my dog about 10 minutes of circling and licking before
he really got into it). This list has helped me so much. Hope I have
helped you.
:-) Patty

Messages in this topic (7)
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7g. Re: New -just registered
Posted by: "Renate" renate.tideswell@gmail.com tideswell_renate
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 4:36 pm ((PDT))

I'm just saying that 3/4lb is more like what I would feed my 25lb poodle
cross,not a 4 lb dog. I'm relying on the math here. Cause I have a 10lb
tzu that is just begging for more food all the time even though he gets more
than 1/4lb a day. He is not exactly slim either. Of course I'm assuming
her yorkie is an adult and at his adult weight.
R

On 10/22/07, bluegracepwd <janea@tpg.com.au> wrote:
>
> Hey Renate,
>
> I have a couple of toy poodles, the smallest of which is around 4lbs.
> I will often give her chicken thighs and chicken legs. What she
> doesn't finish is picked up by one of the other dogs.
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (7)
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8a. Were do you get Green Tripe
Posted by: "Sara Buchanan 03218B" judge742@yahoo.com judge742
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 3:18 pm ((PDT))

I would like to know were you get green tripe and turkey backs and
other things mentioned. I'm getting ready to start a raw diet on my
Chocolate Labs and want to do it right.

Sara

Messages in this topic (2)
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8b. Re: Were do you get Green Tripe
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 3:31 pm ((PDT))

Sara,

Most items (other than green tripe) can be found right in your grocery store
or an ethnic market. No need to search for backs by
themselves....concentrate on whole chickens or turkeys rather than bony
parts.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Sara Buchanan 03218B" <judge742@yahoo.com>

I would like to know were you get green tripe and turkey backs and
other things mentioned. I'm getting ready to start a raw diet on my
Chocolate Labs and want to do it right.

Messages in this topic (2)
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9a. Re: New to raw - made mistakes - need help
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2007 3:42 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "cwnsc" <cwells5@...> wrote:
He is 74#s
> and I am feeding 1 split chicken qtr. once a day which I believe is
> a small meal for his weight?
>

Hi Cindy,
Unless you have monster chickens, 1 chicken quarter fed once a day is
definitely not a large meal for a 74lb dog. I assume you are feeding
this amount to feed a "light" meal while you try to get the diarrhea
under control? Your dog might do better, however, if you feed more
often than once a day for a little while. Less food coming means less
food to digest- you know, a lighter work load for him. How about
feeding 1 bone in chicken breast in the morning and one at night? If
that goes good, you could include a little more food at each meal for
a few days. Once things are good, you can cut back to one meal a day
again. Might be a good plan, KathyM

Messages in this topic (7)
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