[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12181

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Coaxing to gnaw bone
From: Andrea
1b. Re: Coaxing to gnaw bone
From: pattykat3
1c. Re: Coaxing to gnaw bone
From: alicia.fagan

2a. Re: Bloodthirsty, Please Advise!! (was: worming)
From: Scott Baker
2b. Re: Bloodthirsty, Please Advise!! (was: worming)
From: costrowski75
2c. Re: Bloodthirsty, Please Advise!! (was: worming)
From: Casey Post
2d. Re: Bloodthirsty, Please Advise!! (was: worming)
From: Casey Post
2e. Re: Bloodthirsty, Please Advise!! (was: worming)
From: Michelle LaFay
2f. Re: Bloodthirsty, Please Advise!! (was: worming)
From: redkeds@comcast.net
2g. Re: Bloodthirsty, Please Advise!! (was: worming)
From: temy1102
2h. Re: Bloodthirsty, Please Advise!! (was: worming)
From: mousegirls

3a. Re: Feed timing for best poop control
From: Sheryl Edelen

4a. Re: Day 5 of Reformation
From: katkellm

5a. Re: Worming
From: Casey Post

6a. Turkey Necks
From: Jennifer
6b. Re: Turkey Necks
From: Laura Atkinson
6c. Re: Turkey Necks
From: Scott Baker
6d. Re: Turkey Necks
From: carnesbill

7. another egg question
From: autumnji@aol.com

8a. Re: Explosive poo
From: temy1102

9. (no subject)
From: Tracy Meal

10a. How do you deal w/ vets that blame raw diet
From: Finster Boy
10b. Re: How do you deal w/ vets that blame raw diet
From: Casey Post

11a. Re: new puppy-new raw feeder
From: Tina Berry

12a. Re: Russell
From: Renate

Messages
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1a. Re: Coaxing to gnaw bone
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:08 am ((PDT))

The easiest food to eat would probably be bone in chicken breast. Try
cutting ribbons in the meat so she can get a hold of them. If you are
putting the breast piece in a bowl you should start placing it on a
towel or something instead. Bowls with big pieces often confound
newbie dogs. You might also try partially freezing the food just to
firm it up a bit.

I hope you have discontinued giving her cooked bones, though. No good
can come of those, IMO.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "alicia.fagan" <alicia.fagan@...>
wrote:
>
> Anyone have suggestions for getting a dog new to raw to eat off the
> bone? This is the first week I've been trying raw with my Lhasa apso.
> She likes the meat, but can only eat it out of the bowl; does not know
> how to tear the meat off the bone.

Messages in this topic (4)
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1b. Re: Coaxing to gnaw bone
Posted by: "pattykat3" pattykat3@yahoo.com pattykat3
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:19 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "alicia.fagan" <alicia.fagan@...>
wrote:
>
> Anyone have suggestions for getting a dog new to raw to eat off the
> bone? This is the first week I've been trying raw with my Lhasa apso.
> She likes the meat, but can only eat it out of the bowl; does not know
> how to tear the meat off the bone. She'll lick it or take it out of my
> hand, walk a few feet, and drop it. Strange, because she loves to gnaw
> her cooked, hollow bones. I am worried that she is not getting the
> calcium (and i do not have a grinder). I know i should give her time,
> but any ideas would be greatly appreciated!
>
> Alicia
>
My pom and I are also new to this--he's been eating raw food (chicken
wings and now the breast) for 2 weeks. The first time I gave it to
him, he also didn't seem to know what to do with it. He just licked
it, circled it and licked it. I watched him do this for quite a while
(5 or 10 minutes), before he finally decided to dig in. This
continues to be his ritual when I feed him, although he only does the
licking and circling part for about a minute or less. I think that
this might be a way of preparing his body (getting the enzymes
flowing) in order to digest his food. I have read that you should
never feed cooked bones--they apparently splinter easily. Hope this
has helped.
:-) Patty

Messages in this topic (4)
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1c. Re: Coaxing to gnaw bone
Posted by: "alicia.fagan" alicia.fagan@yahoo.com alicia.fagan
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:00 pm ((PDT))

thanks for your response, Andrea. I tried giving her partially cut
chicken legs on a towel, but she just licks at it, doesn't know to
hold it with her paws. Tries to carry it around the house. If i gate
her in the kitchen, she won't touch it; seems to really want to
hide/bury it! I did try it frozen, she didn't take to it at all. I
appreciate your thoughts, though. P.S. I don't mean cooked bones, i
mean the sterilized ones you buy at the pet store for chewing (I guess
they are shin bones or something).

Thanks!
Alicia

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Andrea" <poketmouse45@...> wrote:
>
> The easiest food to eat would probably be bone in chicken breast. Try
> cutting ribbons in the meat so she can get a hold of them. If you are
> putting the breast piece in a bowl you should start placing it on a
> towel or something instead. Bowls with big pieces often confound
> newbie dogs. You might also try partially freezing the food just to
> firm it up a bit.
>
> I hope you have discontinued giving her cooked bones, though. No good
> can come of those, IMO.
>
> Andrea
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "alicia.fagan" <alicia.fagan@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Anyone have suggestions for getting a dog new to raw to eat off the
> > bone? This is the first week I've been trying raw with my Lhasa apso.
> > She likes the meat, but can only eat it out of the bowl; does not know
> > how to tear the meat off the bone.
>

Messages in this topic (4)
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2a. Re: Bloodthirsty, Please Advise!! (was: worming)
Posted by: "Scott Baker" scottsbaker@gmail.com scottpsbaker
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:08 am ((PDT))

Again..nothing to do with raw feeding. Not much more we can tell you.

On 10/19/07, T Smith <coldbeach@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I am glad you wrote this.
> I read that before I switched to raw because i have pet Guinea pigs but
> this
> morning two of the dogs had torn open the cage (ripped the bars apart) &
> killed 3 of them.
> Can others PLEASE tell me you have pet rodents WITH your dogs & no
> problems? I've had these piggies a year & this has NOT been a problem.
> If it is the problem (raw feeding) I will have to go back to k***le.
> I need some reassurring words here, these were my pets!
> There's nothing like having to chase my Dane pup around the yard to get my
> pet piggie whose head is half eaten!
> Trina
>
> .
>
>
>

--
Scott

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (9)
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2b. Re: Bloodthirsty, Please Advise!! (was: worming)
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:12 am ((PDT))

"T Smith" <coldbeach@...> wrote:
>this
> morning two of the dogs had torn open the cage (ripped the bars
apart) &
> killed 3 of them.
*****
RIPPED the bars apart? How? Is there more to this sad tale than you
are telling?
Chris O

Messages in this topic (9)
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2c. Re: Bloodthirsty, Please Advise!! (was: worming)
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:16 am ((PDT))

> I read that before I switched to raw because i have pet Guinea pigs but
> this
> morning two of the dogs had torn open the cage (ripped the bars apart) &
> killed 3 of them.

Oh Trina, I'm so sorry! That must have been horrible for you.

> Can others PLEASE tell me you have pet rodents WITH your dogs & no
> problems?

No, I can't. But I'm living with dogs with prey drives - two are not safe
with rodents of any kind and one is not safe with birds of any kind. It has
nothing to do with what they're eating, it has to do with what they are -
dogs. Predators.

If I had only my Lab (who has the prey drive of a stick of butter), I could
completely trust him around rodents and birds. But the other two? No way.

> I've had these piggies a year & this has NOT been a problem.
> If it is the problem (raw feeding) I will have to go back to k***le.
> I need some reassurring words here, these were my pets!
> There's nothing like having to chase my Dane pup around the yard to get my
> pet piggie whose head is half eaten!

I don't know what circumstances triggered this event, but something did. I
can completely reassure you that it was NOT the diet. I'm very sorry this
happened, but it's not a matter of a dog "turning bloodthirsty". It's a
matter of a dog being a dog. Can some dogs be trusted with small animals?
Yes. But many dogs cannot...

Casey

Messages in this topic (9)
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2d. Re: Bloodthirsty, Please Advise!! (was: worming)
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:21 am ((PDT))

And, because it's always worth posting again, Colby the Killer -

http://rawfed.com/colbythekiller.html

Casey

Messages in this topic (9)
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2e. Re: Bloodthirsty, Please Advise!! (was: worming)
Posted by: "Michelle LaFay" mblafay@gmail.com mblafay
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:40 am ((PDT))

Like others have said, this is not a raw feeding issue, this is a
predator/prey issue. I am so very sorry for your loss. We have 5 dogs, 3 can
be trusted with the chickens milling about with 100% assurance the chickens
will not be harmed (one dog, however, needs periodic rescuing FROM the
chickens), one can usually be trusted and one is never let loose with them
out and about (rarely an issue, she has her own yard). They for the most
part are true to themselves - the sighthound does think it's fun to make
them flutter about but wouldn't hurt them for anything, the border collie
can usually be found herding them around or staring at them from the safety
of the deck (she isn't totally convinced they won't get her lol), the
chi/doxie mix is more true to her chi-ness and is terrified of them - three
hens and the rooster ganging up on her and beating the crap out of her
didn't help matters any. The schnauzer is the one who we don't have to stand
guard over but we do need to check on him periodically and remind him he is
not to hunt the chickens. Has nothing to do with being raw fed, he was a
chicken killer long before I discovered raw, he is actually better now than
he was. The akita I don't think has ever actually threatened the chickens
but we don't give her the opportunity, like I said, she has her own yard as
she does not appreciate the company of the other 4 dogs anyways.

On 10/19/07, T Smith <coldbeach@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I am glad you wrote this.
> I read that before I switched to raw because i have pet Guinea pigs but
> this
> morning two of the dogs had torn open the cage (ripped the bars apart) &
> killed 3 of them.
> Can others PLEASE tell me you have pet rodents WITH your dogs & no
> problems? I've had these piggies a year & this has NOT been a problem.
> If it is the problem (raw feeding) I will have to go back to k***le.
> I need some reassurring words here, these were my pets!
> There's nothing like having to chase my Dane pup around the yard to get my
> pet piggie whose head is half eaten!
> Trina
>
>
>

--
Michelle - The Future Mrs Foley!
mblafay@gmail.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (9)
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2f. Re: Bloodthirsty, Please Advise!! (was: worming)
Posted by: "redkeds@comcast.net" redkeds@comcast.net redkeds1
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:57 pm ((PDT))

Trina,

This is NOT related to raw feeding - there are many previous posts addressing this - it is a behavioral issue, nOT food based.

Maggie, Rufus, Oliver and Mickey

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "T Smith" <coldbeach@gmail.com>
I am glad you wrote this.
I read that before I switched to raw because i have pet Guinea pigs but this
morning two of the dogs had torn open the cage (ripped the bars apart) &
killed 3 of them.
Can others PLEASE tell me you have pet rodents WITH your dogs & no
problems? I've had these piggies a year & this has NOT been a problem.
If it is the problem (raw feeding) I will have to go back to k***le.
I need some reassurring words here, these were my pets!
There's nothing like having to chase my Dane pup around the yard to get my
pet piggie whose head is half eaten!
Trina

On 10/19/07, Andrea <poketmouse45@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> That one is right up there with "If you feed your dog raw they will
> become bloodthirsty." Absolute rubbish. If you feed your dog human
> grade meat there is no reason to worry about parasite infestation. If
> you are lucky enough to get wild game you can freeze the meat for a
> couple of weeks to get rid of any beasties.
>
> <snip>
>
> Andrea
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (9)
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2g. Re: Bloodthirsty, Please Advise!! (was: worming)
Posted by: "temy1102" ahn.tammy@gmail.com temy1102
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:58 pm ((PDT))

I don't have pet rodents right now, but my experience with prey drives
is this: I had a Jindo who would try to pounce and kill toy dogs, yet
slept in her bed with our cat. My corgi mix would kill wild rodents
in his younger days, but was tolerant of my indoor pet rat (who has
since died of old age.) Neither of them were raw fed at the time. I
have a raw fed foster husky who tries to kill pet cats, but is fine
with toy dogs. And my raw-fed Doberman Pinscher is trusted around toy
dogs, kittens, and even a friend's pet rabbit who freely hops around
her apartment.

Based on this, I don't think you can chalk prey drive up to raw
feeding. Because there are kibble fed dogs that will attack and eat
small animals and raw fed dogs that won't, and vice versa. Hope this
helps.

-Tammy

Messages in this topic (9)
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2h. Re: Bloodthirsty, Please Advise!! (was: worming)
Posted by: "mousegirls" mousegirls@gmail.com ladysown
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:59 pm ((PDT))

Has NOTHING to do with raw feeding. Has everything to do with the
kill/prey instinct in the dog AND what they have learned is or is not
okay to pursue.

have rabbits, mice and guinea pigs in my house.

Can let all run free (well...except the mice which Sassy will pick up
and hold firmly with her mouth and sometimes kill because mice squirm
and don't like being picked up that way (go figure eh?)

Sassy will NOT harm the rabbits or piggies and will indeed try to help
me catch them (by attempting to herd them over to me) because
occasionally life intervenes and they do the "I can escape thing".
Silly critters, don't they know the world is a big and scary????

Previous dog that we recently had put to rest would on the other hand,
kill anything that moved within reach.

annette
http://ladysown.blogspot.com/
http://agilitynut.wordpress.com/

"What a man is alone on his knees before God, that he is, and no more".-Robert Murray M'Cheyne
"I believe that prayer is the measure of the man, spiritually, in a way that nothing else is, so that how we pray is as important a question as we can ever face"- J.I. Packer

Messages in this topic (9)
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3a. Re: Feed timing for best poop control
Posted by: "Sheryl Edelen" sophiiblu@yahoo.com sophiiblu
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:11 am ((PDT))

I say feed the biggest meal when you'll be home to let them out to relieve themselves afterward. For me, that would be in the evening.

Sheryl Edelen
Co-moderator, If Pits & Rotts Could Talk
"People think responsibility is hard to bear. It's not. I think that sometimes it is the absence of responsibility that is harder to bear. You have a great feeling of impotence." - Henry Kissinger
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Messages in this topic (4)
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4a. Re: Day 5 of Reformation
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:19 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "totaly_his" <totaly_his@...> wrote:
I notice
> that some on this forum don't feed every day. How do I know If my dogs
> can/needs to skip a day of feeding?
Hi Jackie,
Its not a needs to thing, it is a feeding style preference thing.
Right now, though, feeding less than once a day for your crew isn't a
good idea. You have forever to feed big and exciting meals. Feeding
less than once a day requires you to feed lots of food at one time and
for right now lots of food could give your guys diarrhea. I would
stick to one meal a day for now and feed through all the meat and
parts that are available to you. A couple of few months from now,
that is an option i would encourage you to try.

>Also, does it hurt anything if after
>I eat my dinner that I give her a bite of my bread, steak, or popcorn,

Treats are just that, treats and as long as they don't cause any
adverse reactions or take away size from the intended meal they are
great. I wouldn't want to be the one to break the news to my 3 that
treats are off limits.

>Next week should I feed her some beef? Do I mix the beef
> daily WITH the chicken or offer beef every other day?

You could feed beef next, but because of the cost and the fact, for my
dogs anyways , it seems to be "richer" i would say pork might be
better. I would offer a little of the new meat along side the
chicken, being careful to make sure you reduce the amount of chicken
so you don't over feed. Every day increase the new meat as you
decrease the old one. After a few days of this, if all goes well,
just feed an entire meal of the new meat. Sounds like you are doing
great. KathyM

Messages in this topic (3)
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5a. Re: Worming
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:23 am ((PDT))

> That is, the cats were being treated for cow and pig parasites
> for example.

Sarah,

Wow. That's a bit nuts.

I mean, theoretically, the cows and pigs are already being treated for
parasites, right?

And meat from the store has already been inspected and frozen (in most
cases), so "wormy" doesn't exactly describe it.

My animals get no worming unless there is a very, very good reason to do so.

Casey

Messages in this topic (18)
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6a. Turkey Necks
Posted by: "Jennifer" kali_moonwolf@yahoo.com kali_moonwolf
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:40 am ((PDT))

Hi! While I feed my puppy raw, I haven't fed turkey necks before as I
read somewhere that turkey necks are the perfect size for choking. Now
Im thinking maybe that isn't so... I've also read that they are a great
source of calcium, so I'd like to give my growing puppy some. Does
anyone see problems with this?
-Jennifer

Messages in this topic (20)
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6b. Re: Turkey Necks
Posted by: "Laura Atkinson" llatkinson@gmail.com lauraatkinson2002
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:51 am ((PDT))

Well, anything with bone in it is a great source of calcium <grin>.
Turkey necks are particularly boney, so if that's like your only bone
source, you'll get plenty.

I feed 'em, usually in between days of nothing but meat. But I have
exquisitely polite eaters who take up to 5 minutes on a simple chicken
quarter, so my dogs aren't necessarily "normal" in that regard.

If your puppy isn't a gulper, give 'em a try, but know that you're
going to need to add a fair amount of meat (over time for heavens
sake, we don't worry about daily "balance") for things to come out
even in whatever measure of time you choose to worry about. I worry
about things over a month. Fill up the freezers with appropriate
variety and by the time it's empty, they've gotten what they need. :-)

On 10/19/07, Jennifer <kali_moonwolf@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hi! While I feed my puppy raw, I haven't fed turkey necks before as I
> read somewhere that turkey necks are the perfect size for choking. Now
> Im thinking maybe that isn't so... I've also read that they are a great
> source of calcium, so I'd like to give my growing puppy some. Does
> anyone see problems with this?
> -Jennifer

--
Laura A
Kaos Siberians http://www.kaossiberians.com
Forget love...I'd rather fall in chocolate.

Messages in this topic (20)
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6c. Re: Turkey Necks
Posted by: "Scott Baker" scottsbaker@gmail.com scottpsbaker
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:57 pm ((PDT))

If you have a dog that likes to gulp, then yes, they CAN be a coking hazard.
However they are agreat at scrubing teeth for a dog who would take its time
with them. So its a matter of know thy dog and their eating habbits.

On 10/19/07, Jennifer <kali_moonwolf@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Hi! While I feed my puppy raw, I haven't fed turkey necks before as I
> read somewhere that turkey necks are the perfect size for choking. Now
> Im thinking maybe that isn't so... I've also read that they are a great
> source of calcium, so I'd like to give my growing puppy some. Does
> anyone see problems with this?
> -Jennifer
>
>
>

--
Scott

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (20)
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6d. Re: Turkey Necks
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:40 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Jennifer" <kali_moonwolf@...>
wrote:
>
> I haven't fed turkey necks before as I
> read somewhere that turkey necks are the perfect size for choking.

I suggest you feed whole turkey necks. Most of what you get in the
grocery store are cut in half and you get the two halves in a
package. An uncut turkey neck should be about a foot long and weigh
somewhere around a pound. I feed them a couple of times a week.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (20)
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7. another egg question
Posted by: "autumnji@aol.com" autumnji@aol.com jayagurumayi
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:58 pm ((PDT))

*** Mod Note: please sign your posts ***

my 7# chi loves eggs. one egg = a full meal for her.
how many of 14 meals / week can she have an egg?

**************************************
See what's new at http://www.aol.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (1)
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8a. Re: Explosive poo
Posted by: "temy1102" ahn.tammy@gmail.com temy1102
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:59 pm ((PDT))

The only experience I have with explosive poo like that is when my
Doberman eats too much organ mix or is under stress. But my older 13
year old also has off and on diarrhea, and it's chronic. There's
nothing wrong with his health, but I've found that too MUCH bone
aggravates it. So he only gets bone in his meals maybe once a week if
at all. I think older dogs are just more sensitive after a lifetime
of poison. Keeping a journal and tweaking the diet little by little
really helps to control it. Hope this helps.

-Tammy

Messages in this topic (4)
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9. (no subject)
Posted by: "Tracy Meal" hiddenpoetinme1@yahoo.com hiddenpoetinme1
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:59 pm ((PDT))

HI Shawna,

> but his skin is terribly -- he's SO itchy and he's covered in
dandruff.

>He is one a low dose of thyroid medication and I give him
omega 3 daily (3VHP capsules).

I have been feeding my two female rotties raw for 3 months. My older girl had a similar problem.
She is on thyroid meds too...
Make sure her levels are OK.
My girl had horrible dandruff until we got her levels into the mid to high normal range.
The Omega 3 oil will help.

Tracy

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Messages in this topic (1)
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10a. How do you deal w/ vets that blame raw diet
Posted by: "Finster Boy" finster_boy1@yahoo.com finster_boy1
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:00 pm ((PDT))

I posted about my yorkie having trouble w/ anal gland infection. I took
him to the vet today.
This vet used to sell raw food. (his freezer broke leaving a big mess
so he ceased selling raw) Before even calling me out of the waiting
room, he chided me for the raw diet.
Then he let me explain what brought us there. He checked the glands and
they were clear as a bell. He wants me to switch my dog to canned I/D
food. I tried to ask what is it that HE thinks about the raw diet that
is causing my dogs's bloody diarreah and discomfort. He said he can't
digest fat. When he gave me the print out for the I/D and we looked at
the ingredient list, guess what was in it? Animal fat!
The vet also blames the variety: switching from poultry, lamb, venison,
beef as a contributing factor. I thought variety was a good thing.

Here's the real ridiculous part: when I tried to explain I want to feed
my dog a natural diet like in the wild, he said well, he's not in the
wild, he domesticated. I asked if that changes their digestive tract
operation? He says YES, definately. Can you believe this guy?
Well, at least I got him to do a blood test to see where his liver,
pancreas levels are. A quick stool test cleared any parasites.
My dog has this problem maybe twice a year. And he went problem free
for 2 years when I first switched him over to raw. I feel if the diet
was to blame then he would be sick more often. Am I right?

This is my forth vet. None in my area are open to raw.
Does anyone else go toe to toe with the vets about the raw diet?

And when the vet says to give him boiled chicken and rice for a week to
give the digestive system a rest, won't raw chicken be even easier to
digest than boiled chicken?

Thanx,
Patricia

Messages in this topic (2)
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10b. Re: How do you deal w/ vets that blame raw diet
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 2:57 pm ((PDT))

> Does anyone else go toe to toe with the vets about the raw diet?

My vet and I agree to disagree. When she couldn't find a reason for an
anomaly in the blood work of a cat of mine, she thought that it must be the
diet. I told her that I had been feeding other cats the same diet for years
and this anomaly had never shown up in any of their blood values. After
talking with me some more, she accepted the fact that it was not the diet
after all and was willing to look at other possibilities. As long as a vet
is willing to consider ALL of the possibilities, we can work together. If
they see diet as the be-all, end-all of what might be wrong and are blinded
to anything else, then we've got a problem.

On the rare occasion I have to see a vet who is not my regular one
(emergency, fill in, whatever), I don't discuss diet at all. Especially in
an emergency - I need them to see the animal, not the diet.

Casey

Messages in this topic (2)
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11a. Re: new puppy-new raw feeder
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:41 pm ((PDT))

"Pups this young generally need to eat at least 3 times a day, sometimes 4
times, temporarily, until about 5-7 mo. - then 2 meals a day until about
9-12 mo - then 1 meal a day - and once they reach their full growth, even
every other day.

Regular mealtimes are best for a pup, and make potty training easier to
manage. "Free feeding" is a cr*p-in-a-bag concept, and results in 'free
pooping', too! "

Ditto on the above. As far as the squirts, I'd say the pup is still
adjusting to new food, new home etc. You are doing a great job on the potty
routine - letting him out every hour, when he wakes up from a nap, first
thing in the am, an hour after he eats, etc.

I would do what Chris O recommended on feeding a whole chicken over time,
eventually he consumes the whole chicken which is what we refer to as the
whole prey model raw feeding. After he gets used to the chicken and chicken
organs, say a month, move on to slowly introducing another meat source.
Organs are very rich so if you get your hands on organs, introduce very
slowly. Mine can now get a whole organ meal once a week with 10% bone and
they are fine as far as no loose stools.

You can also slowly introduce eggs after he has settled in; I give mine an
egg daily, but you should start out with once a week for awhile, then twice,
etc.

The only bones to stay away from are leg bones (weight bearing bones) these
are tooth breakers.

--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
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12a. Re: Russell
Posted by: "Renate" renate.tideswell@gmail.com tideswell_renate
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:41 pm ((PDT))

Thanks, Giselle. WE did a blood screen before his neuter that should have
caught that. I've been trying to find the results to make sure but they
seem be hiding. However, what I did find was his vacc records from when he
was a puppy. My vet, my chief foster mom, and I all missed this, but after
the 2nd set of shots (booster) he went into anaphylactic shock. So now I'm
more and more suspicious that the seizures were related to the shots and
the neuter. I have a call into the vet, to check but I think I'm stopping
the meds and waiting to see if he has another seizure. In the meantime,
getting him onto raw with the rest of my guys.
REnate

10/19/07, Giselle <megan.giselle@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi, Renate!
> Have you explored the possibility that Russell may be
> hypothyroid?
> http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/ThyroidDisease.htm
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
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