[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12174

There are 18 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Chicken? But she loves Beef! Help.....
From: Yasuko herron
1b. Re: Chicken? But she loves Beef! Help.....
From: Carol Dunster

2.1. Re: Newbie
From: bluegracepwd
2.2. Re: Newbie
From: mmc2315
2.3. Re: Newbie
From: ginny wilken
2.4. Re: Newbie
From: Morledzep@aol.com
2.5. Re: Newbie
From: moemahood@aol.com

3.1. New Member Introduction
From: Diane Atkinson

4a. Fish oil capsules Re: [rawfeeding] Re: Flax seed oil
From: tottime47

5a. Re: Anal glands prone to infection
From: Carol Dunster
5b. Re: Anal glands prone to infection
From: Finster Boy
5c. Re: Anal glands prone to infection
From: katkellm
5d. Re: Anal glands prone to infection
From: Ladynyny@aol.com

6a. Re: About to start
From: Diane Young

7a. Re: Flax seed oil
From: Diane Young

8. Feed timing for best poop control
From: caz320ml

9. problem, ugggggggggg
From: Vickie

10a. Re: Is it the eggs?
From: susrob061174

Messages
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1a. Re: Chicken? But she loves Beef! Help.....
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Wed Oct 17, 2007 9:28 pm ((PDT))

>she actually prefers to eat the ground beef, we're excited to start
>feeding her the "Raw only" tonight.


Hi,Tiffany. You writes your dog eats ground beef andyou like to start rawfeeding from tonight.I am wondering...her first raw meal is ground beef?????

If so,then,ground beef is not going to p rovide hunk of meat can such as mental physical excersize,plus teeth cleaning,and not much fun at all from dog's point of view.

So, I suggest you try feeding not ground but hunk of meat.

> I see that most people recommend chicken first, and I know that it
>needs to be more meat to bone ratio.

I don't worry too much about ratio;just some bone,more meat,little tiny organ to aim for in the future. Too much bone can cause constipation and probably,since bone has marrow in it,maybe if fed a lot,it also be quite fatty meal??

anyway,you would know the right bone amount by observing your dog. if your dog had looser stool,you need more bone andif constipated,less bone.Each dog is indivisual so,each needs different amount of bone intake.So,first task you need to do is to learn about your dog and adjust accordingly.

Usually,people say 80% meat,10% bone,10% organ,but it is justa starting point to start with and no need to stick with it.so,learjn about your dog.you need to learn eating habit of your dogs too. This way of feeding really let you learn about own dogs:-P

>what part of the chicken should I start her on?

whole chicken!! You go get a whole chicken(sales day is good because around my area for example,if you were lucky,you get it with under a dollar per pound and if not but still on sale,you still get it around 1.30 dollars per pound),and wahck the chicken into appropriate meal size andfeed.Not parts by parts.Buying parts is ok but buying chicken wing for example is not good for Dane owner especially because it is too small for them.

Yorkie is much smaller dog but,if fed wing alone,andif it were meal... too boney.

And,buying parts by parts end up costing you more. Wing attached to breast area of the chicken from whole chicken is better choice than wing alone.

If you still like to feed parts by parts...either split breast with rib bone or Leg quarter will be good.

Keep the organsthat comes with whole chicken for later. Stick to meat with bone a while from one kind of protin source andafter you are thinking your Yorkie is handling new diet pretty good,then,you can add tiny bit of organ in meal and stay with the same protin and let thedog get used to organ.That is how I did.

I started with chicken and went to Beef next after chicken organ introduction but if yourdog can handle ok,I think you can start from Beef.

People start from chicken because cheaper and well torelated by newbie dogs andyou can give them try easy bone to eat as start. You do not need to start from chicken

Or your store start sale on Turkey much earlier(I am not sure when they startselling Turkey cheaper for thanksgiving..never bought it myself),you can start from Turkey too.Al poultry,I cut into portion but I get whole poultry not by parts.that is easier anddog gets to eat a whole poultry after some meals.

>I heard a couple people say that if she's a gulper to start with something bigger than her >head... which she would probably love

Yea,so,wing example I wrote above is apply to this. See,wing is smaller andeasy to gulp but if it was still attached,hard to gulp.

oh,and dog likes chicken feet(not meal but snack) and it gives natural glucosamin in the form of food/meal so if you found it at store,get it and enjoy how dog eats. It is fun to watch too.

>can I start with beef since we know she loves it?

You could,but you cannot assume your dog can eat beef bone;ribs,neck,tail..those are harder than poultry bones.My dog eats all except some of oxtail(she leaves some for me to pick up). So,I am not sure if you start with beef,you have plenty of choice to choose from on boneless meat;cheek meat,tongue,heart,steak or roast but you cannot be sure beef bone can be eaten by your dog... Usually,newbie dogs stay on one protin till digesting food well,but if beef was first protin then,if bone could not be consumed..I am not sure if you can feed other animal's bone such as poultry bone(leg quarter etc) ..otherwise,all boneless meat meal can make dog poo loose...

I am feeding raw for 5 months but,not sure on that. Anybody knows the answer to it?

I mean,if she stay on beef to start with and if beef meat isfed with ..say beef rib andif dog did not eat it at all,she can gives chicken piece such as leg quarter??Or not eating beef bone is stil ok and loose stool would not happen?? I am guessing it would but not sure because I did not feed that way to start with.

I know someone answered me when I first asked waht was dog's first meal,one person said started with lamb. Well,lamb bone looks softer than beef and my dog has no prob eating all rib bones,neck and all that but not sure how well your dog can torelate lamb.Choice-wise among meat and bone,maybe wider choice than beef because dog can eat lamb bones unlike beef(some dogscan and some cannot),and it still has3 choice in boneless meat;steak or roast meat and tongue and heart.And you can add those to bony piece such as lamb rib to makeit a meal .My dog cannot eat lamb tongue more than 1.5oz per sitting and I still need to give my dog combo meal when I feed lamb tongue.

So,again,it would depend on how well your dog can torelate and digest well,

you may get more answer from others..

Good luck.

yassy

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1b. Re: Chicken? But she loves Beef! Help.....
Posted by: "Carol Dunster" cedunster@centurytel.net carwynst
Date: Wed Oct 17, 2007 11:13 pm ((PDT))

On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 01:32:47 -0000, you wrote:

>Should I buy her a whole chicken and see what happens? Or
>can I start with beef since we know she loves it?

Welcome! I have Silky Terriers and recently started feeding them raw.
Because I had it on hand, I started with lean ground beef, but moved
to chicken wings when I was able to go shopping. The ground products
don't give the teeth any sort of work out. I'm going to expand the
first of the month, but I figure at least I am giving real meat to my
Silkys. They are already accustomed to some raw liver and raw (home
grown) duck eggs.

If your Yorkie is used to the ground beef, then by all means feed it
to start with, but I think you'll want to get something with bones and
some real "meaty" meat for her to work on too. The various textures
are what clean the teeth (if I am reading this right!). Those of us
with Toy breeds should really benefit with that, as Toys are so prone
to losing their teeth as they age.

The bummer is that three of my four are already aged and missing a few
teeth over the years. I am seeing some improvement with the chicken
pieces already though on the remaining teeth.
~ Carol
_____________
Carol Dunster
cedunster@centurytel.net

Messages in this topic (4)
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2.1. Re: Newbie
Posted by: "bluegracepwd" janea@tpg.com.au bluegracepwd
Date: Wed Oct 17, 2007 9:29 pm ((PDT))

Hi Diane,

I'm the list owner and I started this list, and we've been up and
going for 10 years. During this time, we have worked hard to
promote a raw diet.

I've learned over this period that vegetables are not needed in a
carnivores diet. Unfortunately there are authors who are misguided
in their approach to what constitutes an appropriate raw diet for a
carnivore.

So are you feeding an appropriate raw diet for a carnivore - no. Is
it doing any harm to your dogs. Probably not. Is it needed? No.
Are you wasting money? Yes.

There's a big difference in dogs eating grass, then pulverising
vegetables for them to eat.

Because a dog loves to eat something, does not mean it should be
part of its diet. Otherwise, I'd be giving my guys at least one
manual to my CRV on a daily basis. They love eating that!

Flaxseed oil is a grain base oil. There is absolutely no evidence
that feeding your dog flaxseed oil will benefit it. However, there
is an issue with giving your dogs anything that is grain based.

This list has always stood by that it's about getting the diet
right. ie: what a carnivore should eat. Not what a carnivore can
eat. These are often two vastly different propositions.

That being said, and I accept that some people are uncomfortable
with this, is that there are many email lists that encourage people
to feed inappropriate diets. In fact, there have been many lists
created from people who have felt that we're a little too dogmatic
here about the issue of "should" vs "can".

regards,

Jane.
... who is yet to see a dog killed by eating chocolate.

Messages in this topic (191)
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2.2. Re: Newbie
Posted by: "mmc2315" m.chelap@sbcglobal.net mmc2315
Date: Wed Oct 17, 2007 11:11 pm ((PDT))

Giselle, good links in your post. I've printed some things out, esp. pertaining to small dogs.
We have a small terrier mix (Cairn? Norfolk?) and he is about ten pounds.

Thanks everyone else for sharing your "set-up" and "clean-up". It has given me some good
ideas and I'm beginning to picture how it might work here at our home.

Michelle

Messages in this topic (191)
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2.3. Re: Newbie
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Wed Oct 17, 2007 11:40 pm ((PDT))

On Oct 17, 2007, at 8:17 PM, Diane Young wrote:

> I disagree about the veggies, kelp, etc. Some of you here feed a
> prey diet, but that isn't the only raw diet

It's the only raw diet appropriate to what are basically wolves.

> and those who feed veggies and other stuff like yogurt shouldn't
> keep being told that the way they're feeding is wrong. I have had
> perfectly healthy dogs with feeding the other stuff and variety is
> not a bad thing.

Variety in moderation is not a bad thing, but neither is it good when
it displaces prototypical foods. In the wild, no wolf would encounter
the sorts of heavily carbohydrate, overly sweet fruits we eat. There
is no prototype for the drinking of milk of other species, fermented
or not. And the question of how one identifies perfect health begs
itself; just because an untrained eye, or one accustomed to dealing
with sickness, can call someone healthy by comparison is no reason to
assume that they are as good as the could be. In my opinion, if you
want to be as good as you can, or to have dogs as good as they can
be, you will try to emulate a natural diet as far as possible. The
feeding of veggies and yogurt does not match this standard. Is it
wrong? Depends on how fussy you are. And I am very fussy.

> Dogs eat grass and leaves when you take them outside, and my dogs
> have all LOVED apples.

Dogs like a lot of things they would not have encountered in a wild
state. I don't think that that is a good enough reason to encourage
them. Imagine turning them loose in a supermarket, and feeding them
according to what they chose there. Our food choices, even as they
sit in the ground or on trees or in barns, are not what we evolved to
eat, most times, and that goes for dogs, too.
>
> The only things I know that absolutely should be avoided even as
> part of a raw diet are chocolate and onions, and there is some
> debate about tomatoes so I'm careful with them. Flaxseed oil is
> just as good as fish oil for Omegas in the diet, and is included as
> part of the mixes I feed my dog, which are made by a breeder in OH
> who has been raw feeding for most of her life.

She wins no points from me on the flaxseed issue. Flaxseed provides
only a precursor of Omega 3's, rather than the "ready-to-use" form
encountered in meats and fish fed appropriately. As dogs, being
carnivores, cannot efficiently convert these precursors into Omegas,
they obtain everything they need from the bodies of herbivores who
have done this conversion for them by eating grass, etc. And it is
totally inappropriate to feed dogs plants, especially concentrated
bits of squeezed plants, containing toxic plant lectins which can
cause allergic responses. Being uninformed for a long time is still
uninformed.

To me, "inappropriate" means "wrong", so I guess I would tell people
they are wrong for feeding inappropriately. If you feel
"inappropriate" has some more benign import, I'm sorry to offend you,
but I'd hope you keep reading, so you don't end up like the lady in
Ohio.

ginny and Tomo

All stunts performed without a net!

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Messages in this topic (191)
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2.4. Re: Newbie
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:05 am ((PDT))

In a message dated 10/17/2007 7:40:26 PM Pacific Standard Time,
dkyoung63@yahoo.com writes:

Diane,

lets take this step by step..

disagree about the veggies, kelp, etc. Some of you here feed a prey diet,
but that isn't the only raw diet and those who feed veggies and other stuff like
yogurt shouldn't keep being told that the way they're feeding is wrong.

**i'm assuming.. probably wrongly, that you read the info that was emailed to
you when you joined this list. It CLEARLY says that this list is about
feeding RAW PREY MODEL diet. it says that we don't follow billinghurst, or any of
the other self-proclaimed experts that claim that dogs need grains and veggies
and suppliments and yogurt.

I I have had perfectly healthy dogs with feeding the other stuff and variety
is not a bad thing.

**i've heard folks say that their dogs are "perfectly healthy" eating kibble
too.. doesn't mean the dogs are as healthy as they can be, they just aren't
sick.

Dogs eat grass and leaves when you take them outside, and my dogs have all
LOVED apples.

**Dogs willingly eat tv remotes, wallpaper, anti-freeze, fermented fruit and
beer. Are these things also species appropriate because the dogs will eat
them? anti-freeze tastes sweet, but is pure poison, and dogs die when they
drink it.. but if you go by your arguement that veggies are part of the diet then
anti-freeze is too.

The only things I know that absolutely should be avoided even as part of a
raw diet are chocolate and onions, and there is some debate about tomatoes so
I'm careful with them.

**vegetables and fruits of all kinds should be avoided. They are NOT
appropriate food, and even as treats some can cause allergic reactions and digestive
discomfort. Others can have a diuretic effect, and yet others are toxic. I
choose not to tempt fate or try to figure out which is which, we already know
that fruits and veggies aren't wolf chow.

Flaxseed oil is just as good as fish oil for Omegas in the diet,

**i think Ginny and some of the others covered the flax oil thing.. and i
have no experience with such things. I do know that flax oil is the cause of
some allergic reactions, but since it's plant oil, not oil from an animal source
it's never had the opportunity to cause trouble for me or my dogs.

and is included as part of the mixes I feed my dog, which are made by a
breeder in OH who has been raw feeding for most of her life.

**as Ginny said, being wrong for a long time is still wrong. Dogs survive a
long time on poison pellets, doesn't make it any more species appropriate than
flax oil, or veggies or grains.

**This is a place to learn the correct way to feed a species appropriate raw
prey model diet to our carnivores. You can learn and watch your dogs become
healtier and happier. Or you can close your mind and continue feeding what
you're feeding and never see any improvement in your dogs and have no control
over the ingredients in their food. i know that badgering folks and promoting
less appropriate diets won't fly here.. and no one on this list is going to give
you permission to feed what you're currently feeding. that is your choice,
and your choice alone.

Catherine R.

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2.5. Re: Newbie
Posted by: "moemahood@aol.com" moemahood@aol.com selfemployedhealth
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 3:45 am ((PDT))

The essential
ingredients in flax aren't even available without being converted, a process
that is very inefficient. There is no comparison between flax and fish
oils.

Sandee, Can you please site references so that I can see where you are getting this information.? Maybe a scientific study of some sort?? Or is this just in your personal experience?

?Maureen

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3.1. New Member Introduction
Posted by: "Diane Atkinson" hopenfox@yahoo.com.au hopenfox
Date: Wed Oct 17, 2007 11:12 pm ((PDT))

Hi!

My name is Diane.

I live in Victoria, Australia, and I have 3 ferrets (Toad, Merry &
Squirrel 3 3/4 years) and 3 dogs (Nicky, a 14 year old Cavalier King
Charles Spaniel, Hope, a 6 1/2 year old Koolie/BC mix, and Fox, a 5
1/2 year old Kelpie). They've all been eating raw for around 4 (3 1/2
for the ferrets) years and we are all loving it!

Unfortunately Hope had an accident 4 months ago, where she swallowed a
too large section of bone and it lodged in her oesophagus, close to
her stomach. She required surgery to have it removed along with a 3cm
section of damaged oesophagus. Due to scarring, her oesophagus is now
very narrow and because of the risk of it getting stuck in the
narrowed area, Hope is never allowed to eat bones again :( .

I still want her to have as natural a diet as is possible.

Currently She is being fed a variety of minced meat, including chicken
(with bones), lamb, turkey, kangaroo, beef and fish, with offal and a
raw egg once or twice a week.

Any suggestions or thoughts on this would be great.

She gets a small morning snack of mince spread around inside a Kong,
then an afternoon meal fed by spoon (to regulate her portion sizes -
anything bigger than a teaspoon wont fit and is brought back up).
I intend (haven't gotten to it yet) to brush her teeth with a
toothbrush, since she can't clean them herself anymore.

Anyway, I've really enjoyed reading everyone's posts and look forward
to learning more.

~
Diane

Messages in this topic (30)
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4a. Fish oil capsules Re: [rawfeeding] Re: Flax seed oil
Posted by: "tottime47" tottime@aol.com tottime47
Date: Wed Oct 17, 2007 11:12 pm ((PDT))

Hi,

I use the Rexall brand of cold water salmon oil capsuls.
They are 1,000 mg with Omega 3 fatty acids.
I get mine at Walmart. You can also find salmon oil or
fish oil capsuls at drugstores, grocery stores
or health food stores.

Walmart also has a mixed fish oil capsul.

One that doesn't have soy in it is better for your dogs.

Here's a site that sells a very top notch
salmon oil online in bottles.

www.icelandpure.com

Hope this helps some,

Carol, Charkee & Moli

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Pepper <pepperanne14@...> wrote:
>
> What kind of fish oil capsules? I read that cod liver oil is not a
good oil to feed the dogs... is there a different kind?

Messages in this topic (12)
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5a. Re: Anal glands prone to infection
Posted by: "Carol Dunster" cedunster@centurytel.net carwynst
Date: Wed Oct 17, 2007 11:12 pm ((PDT))

On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 01:19:50 -0000, you wrote:

>Before switching to raw, he had a constant need to have his anal
>glands expressed. Since switching to raw, that problem seemed to have
>vanished.
>This summer, he was symptomatic again and when the vet expressed the
>glands, the fluid was infected. I treated him using alternative
>methods instead of antibiotics.

I believe that dogs are built to eat bone, which will give them harder
poops at times and express the glands naturally. Feed him real animal
parts with the texture of meat and bone rather than ground up things
with fillers in them and I think you'll have improvement on the glands
filling up. The infection is an infection and needs to be treated
appropriately - it will likely take more than diet to clear that up.

~ Carol
_____________
Carol Dunster
cedunster@centurytel.net

Messages in this topic (7)
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5b. Re: Anal glands prone to infection
Posted by: "Finster Boy" finster_boy1@yahoo.com finster_boy1
Date: Wed Oct 17, 2007 11:55 pm ((PDT))

Thanx, Carol-
He does eat a chicken or turkey neck everday. Wouldn't that be enough
to express them naturally?
Anything bigger than the necks and he just lies down infront of it and
whines.
He used to love lamb chops and the shoulder steaks, but no more-won't
go near them. Sometimes, I can get him interested in chicken legs or
thighs. He seems to be getting fussier.
I'm at a disadvantage because I didn't know about raw feeding for the
first 6 years of his life. So he has some well established bad habits.
I only use the freeze dried medallions for when my handicapped mother
cares for him when I'm not home-she can not and will not deal with raw
food for him.
Thanx for the help, I will keep it in mind for meal planning!
Patricia

Messages in this topic (7)
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5c. Re: Anal glands prone to infection
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 5:37 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee Lee" <rlee@...> wrote:
If he's been
> eating mixes, medallions, ground foods, kibble (even grain-free),
that could
> be part of the problem.

Hi Patricia,
What Sandy just said, plus i wanted to point out that the grain free
kibble is another attempt by the pet food industry to pull business
away from all raw feeding efforts by making a supposedly new and
improved kibble. Advertising at its finest--lets take out the grains
and potatoes and add tapioca and say that is a really good item to get
dietary carbs from for a dog. Opponents of raw food rant about the
raw food being "high in protein." Well, Instinct is 42% protein, 22%
fat. Now THAT is high high protein and fat and can't be healthy. JMO,
KathyM

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5d. Re: Anal glands prone to infection
Posted by: "Ladynyny@aol.com" Ladynyny@aol.com cathalmightywarrior
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 6:13 am ((PDT))

Hi Patricia,
I have a dog that suffered with infected anal glands for YEARS. Always
on antibiotic and always having to express the glands until last year when I
found a Vet that would treat the Glands. This Vet put the antibiotic directly
into the glands which eliminated the need for Oral antibiotics. It has been
one year and the dog is fine, no more scooting no more infections no more
manual expressing of the glands.
This Vet said most veterinarians just do not treat the glands directly.
In his years of practice this is the way he treats it and it works.

Terry
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In a message dated 10/17/2007 9:25:50 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
finster_boy1@yahoo.com writes:

Hi- I have a male 10 yr old yorkie who has been on raw feeding for
the past 3 yrs.
I feed him OMAS mix, freeze dried medallions,chicken & turkey necks-
which he will sometimes eat frozen. At night, he was used to eating a
little kibble to go to sleep, so now I've found the grain-free
dry "Instinct" to replace that.

Before switching to raw, he had a constant need to have his anal
glands expressed. Since switching to raw, that problem seemed to have
vanished.
This summer, he was symptomatic again and when the vet expressed the
glands, the fluid was infected. I treated him using alternative
methods instead of antibiotics. He seems to be prone to anal gland
infections. I suspect he has a problem again right now.
The vet is not onboard with raw feeding (are any of them?)
And he blames the diet for the anal gland back-up and infection.

I'm trying to get him to eat more fiber- canned pumpkin mixed w/
ground flax and some cottage cheese w/ acidolpholis added-just as
a "treat", but he has an aversion to veggies-in any form- Plus the
common yorkie- brat-picky eater thing.

Has anyone else experienced similar problems w/ the anal galnds? Any
suggestions for resolving this problem?
Thanx,
Patricia

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6a. Re: About to start
Posted by: "Diane Young" dkyoung63@yahoo.com dkyoung63
Date: Wed Oct 17, 2007 11:12 pm ((PDT))

Lynette,

I've always started my dogs with whole chicken backs and never had any problems with either puppies or older dogs.Mine have all been large breeds, though.

Diane Young

Lynette <lraefried@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
I am about to start feeding Cherry her raw diet. I beleive I start with
chicken for the first couple weeks. When just starting should I take
the skin off? I thought I read something about too much fatty stuff
would not be a good idea, is skin fatty? Hope I do not sound like a
complete idiot.

Lynette

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7a. Re: Flax seed oil
Posted by: "Diane Young" dkyoung63@yahoo.com dkyoung63
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 1:12 am ((PDT))

Doreen,

Just as a note in answer to your question, chilled or not, most medications including supplements are good for one year past their expiration date. This includes acetiminophen and ibuprofen, as well as prescription medications. The date on the label is when it must be removed from the shelf. I used to work as a Medical Assistant and this was the word from the doctor and the pharmaceutical reps.

Diane Young

doreenchui <doreenchui@yeos.com> wrote: I am feeding my dogs Flax seed oil(in oil form). I often buy 6 bottles
at one time. I now have 1 bottle that have expired end August. Is it ok
to feed?
Doreen

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8. Feed timing for best poop control
Posted by: "caz320ml" caz320ml@yahoo.com caz320ml
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 3:29 am ((PDT))

Hi

We have been raw feeding for about 3 weeks, lots of success and no
problems, but I have a disabled dog.

Bonnie is an 11 year old boxer with CDRM, like MS sort of, she has
very little use of her back legs. She had started to poop
occasionally at night before we went raw and at first the raw seemed
to stop the problem.

I know this is part of the illness but just wondered, I feed twice a
day a larger meal in the morning and a small meal aroud 3.30pm she
is walked at 4.30 and again before we go to bed between 9 and
10.30pm.

I want to feed twice a day, she loves her food and is too used to
this to change now, which is the best way round, big meal am or big
meal pm any ideas?

Thanks for all the help, I have been reading all the mails for a
while now.

Caroline, Bonnie and Londo

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9. problem, ugggggggggg
Posted by: "Vickie" dals4creekside@comcast.net vivkie
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 5:37 am ((PDT))

Hi All,

I put this on the raw issues list 2 days ago and didn't get a
response, thought I would put it here also.

I jumped on the whole "barf" band wagon quite a number of years ago,
and while it was alot of work, it was what I believed to be the best
for my dogs. It did show me a difference in their health and over all
well being. I switched to a totally raw diet about 6 months ago. My
younger dog, just a year old, is doing very very well on it. She eats
whatever we give her with no problems whatsoever. Its the older girl
that is having a problem.

My older girl, almost 8 yrs old, doesn't have a problem with a
variety of meat, just the size of it. She eats beef, chicken, pork,
lamb, turkey, veal and seems to like it all. However, the problem I
am running into with her is she doesn't like what I call "big" meat.
A dinner might possibly be a chicken leg quarter or breast quarter
and she refuses to touch it. She will lick it, roll it around, pick
it up, move it, but not actually eat it. If you cut the wing off,
she will eat that with gusto. Crunching throroughly is not a
problem. She will also eat the bone in a thigh or leg if you cut
most of the meat off it. I have tried what was called on another
list "ribbon meat" where you score cuts into the meat but leave the
actual meat on the bone, but she won't eat that either, even if you
stuff it with parmesan chesse. So for now I have taken to giving her
a couple chicken wings and additional meat chunks (whatever flavor)
until I can figure this one out.

I have also tried just giving her the meat and leaving if for about
10 or 15 minutes, then picking it back up, putting it in the fridge
till the next day. She went for almost 4 days like that, refusing to
eat it. I finally saw her loosing some weight and couldn't stand her
not eating when she clearly was starving so I cut the meat into
chunks and she happily ate.

The other problem I have is organs............. she will not eat raw
organs. I have to semi cook with seasoning on it to get her to eat
it.

Any suggestions you have will be greatly appreciated. I believe the
younger you start them out on total raw the better off you are.

Thanks
Vickie

Messages in this topic (1)
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10a. Re: Is it the eggs?
Posted by: "susrob061174" susrob061174@yahoo.com susrob061174
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 5:37 am ((PDT))

Hey Robin,

I give eggs as a treat about once a week not as meal. Add chicken to
that egg so that the dog has something to digest with.

> I keep seeing advice to ask the butcher for things. Are they
>actually getting whole animals? Legs? Rib-cages? What is
>actually going in the back door? LOL.

Ask the butcher if he can order chicken backs & necks, turkey &
necks, by the case. I get mine for .24 to .34$ $ a lb. I normally
order 200lbs at a time. I package it up into smaller meal sizes. As
for as beef, you have to catch when they are on sale unless you can
find a wholesale butcher locally. I am luck to have one.

>The trainer at class told me dogs shouldn't get
> raw because the vet told her 1. Someone who fed raw got bitten by
> their dog and got blood poisoning from it, 2. Dogs have evolved
> beyond eating raw now.

I normally dont get in a debate about my dogs health it stands up
for itself, as long as they are healthy and doing well, I would
smile and turn away. He said, she said. Vets will say anything to
keep the profit in their pockets and keep poor unhealthy animals
coming in. Ask the trainer how in the **** has dogs evolved beyond
eating raw now? I think it takes more than 62 years for the dog's
anatomy to change, thats about when dog food was invented.

Susanne & Courtney the Dane Gang (Zoe, Wilson & Annie)
http://www.streborsgreatdanes.com/Raw101.html

Life is grand when you love a Dane!! Have you licked your Dane today?

Messages in this topic (2)
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