[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12164

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. what to tell the butcher?
From: Mary Tinder
1b. Re: what to tell the butcher?
From: Andrea

2a. Re: Lamb flaps
From: beaulah_2001us

3a. Turkey Drums
From: blacty
3b. Re: Turkey Drums
From: Andrea
3c. Re: Turkey Drums
From: Sandee Lee
3d. Re: Turkey Drums
From: katkellm

4a. Re: Puppy with the runs
From: katkellm
4b. Re: Puppy with the runs
From: Denise Strother
4c. Re: Puppy with the runs
From: Andrea
4d. Re: Puppy with the runs
From: moemahood@aol.com

5.1. Re: constipated dog
From: angela182548

6a. Re: Advice for small dogs...
From: Denise Strother

7.1. Newbie
From: Natalie
7.2. Re: Newbie
From: John and Jeni Blackmon
7.3. Re: Newbie
From: Denise Strother
7.4. Re: Newbie
From: katkellm

8a. Re: Bad Doggy farts - what can you do?? (sorry to be graphic)
From: lauraanimal1
8b. Re: Bad Doggy farts - what can you do?? (sorry to be graphic)
From: Denise Strother

9a. Re: New dog, feeding question
From: Denise Strother

10a. Re: Hives, Dogs get hives?
From: Denise Strother

11a. Re: Whole Turkey Necks
From: Marilyn Neil
11b. Re: Whole Turkey Necks
From: costrowski75

12a. Re: Here we go....
From: Jennifer

13.1. Re: confused
From: Giselle

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. what to tell the butcher?
Posted by: "Mary Tinder" mtinder@tinderco.com mmmaryt
Date: Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:35 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "bluegracepwd" <janea@...> wrote:
>
I have just joined the group and just beginning with the raw feeding
for my dogs.

I have good access to goats. I'm wondering what I should tell the
butcher regarding how to do up the goat for dogs? One suggestion
was to get it "field dressed." I have three dogs ranging from 150#
to 20#. ?? I was going to give them the same stuff we get packaged
for us but with just a bit of research found that "ground" raw is
not the way to go.

I hope this is a new question and I'm not overlooking something
you've discussed repeatedly.
Mary T
> Hi Misty,
>
> I feed goat meat whenever I can get it. It's an excellent meat
> source. At the moment I have a freezer half full of whole goat,
and
> half full of whole sheep. The dogs are loving it! (as are the
> ferrets and the cats)
>
> cheers
>
> Jane
> www.bluegrace.com
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Misty G <oceanmistrabbitry@>
> wrote:
> >
> > I would like to know if I can use goat meat to raw feed our
puppy?
>

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________

1b. Re: what to tell the butcher?
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:54 am ((PDT))

Get the goat as whole as he will give it to you. You want the head,
the feet, all the insides (except maybe bladder and intestines), hide
on if you can get it that way.

When I buy processed goat we get the 6-way cut. The feet, tail, head,
and hide are all gone and there are no organs included. You end up
with two large front leg parts, two hind leg parts, and the rib cage
cut in two. The parts are big and cumbersome, great for all sized dogs.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Mary Tinder" <mtinder@...> wrote:

> I have good access to goats. I'm wondering what I should tell the
> butcher regarding how to do up the goat for dogs? One suggestion
> was to get it "field dressed." I have three dogs ranging from 150#
> to 20#. ??

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

2a. Re: Lamb flaps
Posted by: "beaulah_2001us" beaulah_2001us@yahoo.com beaulah_2001us
Date: Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:36 am ((PDT))

What are lamb flaps? I have never heard of that before.

Sandy

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "doreenchui" <doreenchui@...> wrote:
>
> Is lamb flaps good as RMB?
> Doreen
>

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

3a. Turkey Drums
Posted by: "blacty" Ty@wetlandsod.com blacty
Date: Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:36 am ((PDT))

I have been feeding my Golden and Setter Turkey drums for the last
month and a half. They completly enjoy them but I am wondering if
this is enough nutrition for them. Does anybody have any knowledge of
Turkey legs and the content(protein/fat) that they would be getting
from this. Both are active hunters so I want to make sure they are
getting enough nutrients.
Thanks
Ty

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________

3b. Re: Turkey Drums
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:49 am ((PDT))

They need more variety than just turkey drums. You want to feed a
variety of body parts from a variety of animals in order to cover all
your bases. You can check what nutrients are in food by looking at

http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/
Type in "raw turkey" and see what is in all the different parts.

Start looking for some red meats like pork, beef, rabbit, etc. You
also need to add some organs as well.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "blacty" <Ty@...> wrote:
>
> I have been feeding my Golden and Setter Turkey drums for the last
> month and a half. They completly enjoy them but I am wondering if
> this is enough nutrition for them.

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________

3c. Re: Turkey Drums
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Mon Oct 15, 2007 12:08 pm ((PDT))

No, it's not adequate nutrition. Poultry is a good beginning place, but
after a couple of weeks need to move on to red meat and lots of it...and
organs of course. You need variety in body parts and protein sources and a
lot more meat than is in a drum.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "blacty" <Ty@wetlandsod.com>

I have been feeding my Golden and Setter Turkey drums for the last
month and a half. They completly enjoy them but I am wondering if
this is enough nutrition for them. Does anybody have any knowledge of
Turkey legs and the content(protein/fat) that they would be getting
from this. Both are active hunters so I want to make sure they are
getting enough nutrients.

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________

3d. Re: Turkey Drums
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Mon Oct 15, 2007 12:35 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "blacty" <Ty@...> wrote:
>> I have been feeding my Golden and Setter Turkey drums for the last
> month and a half. They completly enjoy them but I am wondering if
> this is enough nutrition for them.

Hi Ty,
This is hard to answer because i'm not sure why you are only feeding
turkey instead of a variety of parts from a variety of animals. So,
my answer would be if this is a financial thing and that's what is
available and what you can afford then, since its still better than
kibble, it would be ok but you need to make 5% of the diet liver. It
would be great to see another 5% other organs, but the liver is
important. If you are just stuck in a rut, go to the store and buy a
new protein, say pork, and feed for a week. In any case , you need to
start feeding liver. I think the "key" to good nutrition is variety
to add everything you need and time to balance it out. KathyM

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

4a. Re: Puppy with the runs
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:36 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Monica" <mommyof2gals@...> wrote
> Any suggestions for firming up her stools until she masters the art of
> the bone?

Hi Monica,
You could try smashing up the bones for her. KathyM

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________

4b. Re: Puppy with the runs
Posted by: "Denise Strother" denisestrother@yahoo.com denisestrother
Date: Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:28 am ((PDT))

Try chicken breasts. The cartilage, ribs and even the breast bone are
softer than the rest of the chicken bones. You might trim off most of
the meat for another meal and give mostly these soft bones first.
Denise

My 2-lb pom pup (15 weeks) is not capable with her puppy teeth to eat
enough bone to offset her meat meals and consequently has such very
loose stools that she cannot hold long enough to get outside. It is
hindering potty training and, well, just plain messy. I even have
bone leftover with chicken wings.
Any suggestions for firming up her stools until she masters the art of
the bone?
Thanks
Monica in IL

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________

4c. Re: Puppy with the runs
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:43 am ((PDT))

Are you sure you aren't overfeeding her? Most dogs don't need all that
much bone to have solid poos. Try giving her smaller more frequent
meals. You could also get some cornish game hens for her since the
bones are much softer.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Monica" <mommyof2gals@...> wrote:
>
> My 2-lb pom pup (15 weeks) is not capable with her puppy teeth to eat
> enough bone to offset her meat meals and consequently has such very
> loose stools that she cannot hold long enough to get outside. It is
> hindering potty training and, well, just plain messy.

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________

4d. Re: Puppy with the runs
Posted by: "moemahood@aol.com" moemahood@aol.com selfemployedhealth
Date: Mon Oct 15, 2007 1:35 pm ((PDT))

Why don't you do one meal of chicken necks?? and the other of just meat.

?Maureen

My 2-lb pom pup (15 weeks) is not capable with her puppy teeth to eat
enough bone to offset her meat meals and consequently has such very
loose stools that she cannot hold long enough to get outside. It is
hindering potty training and, well, just plain messy. I even have bone
leftover with chicken wings.

Any suggestions for firming up her stools until she masters the art of
the bone?

Thanks
Monica in IL

________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

5.1. Re: constipated dog
Posted by: "angela182548" angela182548@yahoo.com angela182548
Date: Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:21 am ((PDT))

> she is pooping but it's very hard and big. is painful to her. there
is
> some blood in it as well. should I be concerned about this ??
>
> Brenda Dumesnil

Hi Brenda,
I am very new to raw.. but I too am having some poop issues. I am
sticking primarily to chicken per advice from here..but I am also
doing a little liver and egg to soften the stoole. I noticed that it
helped my little one...she had a easy BM yesterday,(hers was really
hard and dry & she was really straining to go) I am just having faith
in this process and dealing with the changes. I am sorry that your
girl is having some difficulty..my thought would be to soften up that
stoole naturally w/ the liver and egg. I can only speak from my
experience so far. Gosh I hope this helps. Angela

Messages in this topic (36)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

6a. Re: Advice for small dogs...
Posted by: "Denise Strother" denisestrother@yahoo.com denisestrother
Date: Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:21 am ((PDT))

Tell your mom that raw is great for "the littles". I own a 9yr old,
5lb Chi and am fostering a younger 5lb male. I often foster smaller
dogs. I just placed a 3.5 lber. I feed the littles all parts of the
chicken. Since they don't use their jaw muscles much eating kibble,
the ribs, breast bones, neck and other small bones are the easiest to
start them with. As their jaw muscles get stronger they can eat the
wing, leg and thigh bones. Your mom might try cornish game hens or
quail depending on their availabity and price. I am also feeding a
Pitbull and I just feed all of the dogs the same things. Remember,
they don't have to have bone in every meal. My 9yr old has a beautiful
black and white coat, plays with the other littles, bosses the Pit
around and has all of her teeth. Tell your mom it will be the best
thing she ever did for her littles. Denise

> My mother has 3 long hair chihuahuas 2, 8, and 9 years old. They
have been kibble fed their entire lives. Every time I go to her
house, it just kills me to look at them. They are very lethargic,
dull coats, terrible teeth, etc.

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

7.1. Newbie
Posted by: "Natalie" egyptian_sun@hotmail.com bearsandharleys
Date: Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:22 am ((PDT))

I just wanted to say hello and THANK YOU to the creator of this list. I
have heard about Raw feeding but have never known how to go about
finding information as many people shun it. I have 4 dogs. They are
1,3,4, and 13.
This site has so much wonderful, useful information. I can't wait to
start my guys and girls on the raw diet. One quick question, when I am
ready, I can just give them raw right off the bat instead of their
normal kibble? No "switching slowly" is needed.

Thank you,
Natalie

Messages in this topic (171)
________________________________________________________________________

7.2. Re: Newbie
Posted by: "John and Jeni Blackmon" jonjeni777@sbcglobal.net jeniavidiva
Date: Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:39 am ((PDT))

yup, I know, seems too easy, but it's that simple. Give it a go. You'll love it and so will they:)
Jeni

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (171)
________________________________________________________________________

7.3. Re: Newbie
Posted by: "Denise Strother" denisestrother@yahoo.com denisestrother
Date: Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:39 am ((PDT))

Hi Natalie,
You are correct. I foster dogs and regularly switch them cold turkey.
I have found this to be the easiest way for everybody involved. Good
Luck and keep us posted. Denise

One quick question, when I am ready, I can just give them raw right
off the bat instead of their normal kibble? No "switching slowly" is
needed.
Thank you,
Natalie

Messages in this topic (171)
________________________________________________________________________

7.4. Re: Newbie
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:39 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Natalie" <egyptian_sun@...> wrote:
I can just give them raw right off the bat instead of their
> normal kibble? No "switching slowly" is needed.

Hi Natalie,
Its nice to have you here. Yep, donate the kibble and give them raw
right off the bat. KathyM

Messages in this topic (171)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

8a. Re: Bad Doggy farts - what can you do?? (sorry to be graphic)
Posted by: "lauraanimal1" lauraanimal1@yahoo.com lauraanimal1
Date: Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:22 am ((PDT))

My girl Ishta Had the same thing, HORRIBLE, run you out of the room,
smelt like you said, that she had a squirts eppisode in the room she
wast tooting in. She had the bad habit of when I would have someone
over and we was sitting at the dinning room table to go lie under the
table, the fart. Everyone's eyes would water because they was so bad
and run out of the room gagging.

However that was before I switched her back to raw, now she doesnt have
at all them unless she gets ahold of something unraw, doesnt matter if
it was a cracker at the park she found or anything else. When she finds
something you know it. So I have to watch real close when I take her
out. I also had to tell my neighbors to stop giving her treats when she
was outside. They was sneaking her some when I wasnt around since there
so fond of animals but have none them selves.

As long as she doesnt get "human" (other then raw meat) she doesnt have
that Retched gas anymore.

Laura and Ishta

Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________

8b. Re: Bad Doggy farts - what can you do?? (sorry to be graphic)
Posted by: "Denise Strother" denisestrother@yahoo.com denisestrother
Date: Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:40 am ((PDT))

If you think dog farts are graphic, check the archives. We discuss all
kinds of graphic stuff here, like feeding goat heads, poop, etc. Denise

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "costrowski75" <Chriso75@...> wrote:
"kaebruney" <kaebruney@> wrote:
> Sorry to be graphic, but there is no other way to put it.
> *****
> Life is graphic. Bring it on.

Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

9a. Re: New dog, feeding question
Posted by: "Denise Strother" denisestrother@yahoo.com denisestrother
Date: Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:55 am ((PDT))

I wouldn't worry about it. As long as he is acting fine he is fine. I
have a Pitbull and 2 Chihuahuas and I cut things up as little as
possible. If my Chi's can eat whole heart, chicken, pork roasts, etc;
your Pittie sure can. It is so much better for their teeth to eat the
big pieces it's worth the effort. Denise

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, cesar valdez <chorizo4662@...>
wrote:
I need info QUICK. Can ANYONE PLEASE tell me how long a dog can go
without eating. After feeding raw for about 6mon now. Ive stopped
chopping up the food for my Pitbull and ive given him whole hearts and
tongues cut into 4-5 big chunks. He refuses to eat them that way. I
was once told not to worry, if he gets hungry enough, he'll eat them.
he wont "let himself starve". Well, its been 7 whole days and nothing,
he still acts the same in EVERY way, continues to play with the other
2 dogs like normal. Drinks water regularly and again, acts the same.
What ahould i do??? PLEASE help ASAP!!!

Messages in this topic (14)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

10a. Re: Hives, Dogs get hives?
Posted by: "Denise Strother" denisestrother@yahoo.com denisestrother
Date: Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:55 am ((PDT))

Virginia,
I'd suspect the preservatives and such myself. Denise

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Virginia Snider" <vsnider@...>
wrote:
> I never knew dogs got hives. What gives? Is it some sort of grain
problem?

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

11a. Re: Whole Turkey Necks
Posted by: "Marilyn Neil" ems1classic@btinternet.com marilyn9751
Date: Mon Oct 15, 2007 12:35 pm ((PDT))

I found one of my Golden bitches chocking on a turkey neck. I managed to grab an end and pull the whole thing out. She hadnt chewed it and thought it would go down in one go. I now cut the turkey necks in half. Better safe than sorry!

Marilyn

www.lestorm.co.uk

carnesbill <carnesw@bellsouth.net> wrote:
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "GWiesmore" <gwiesmore@...> wrote:
>
> Here's the rub... When we give her a whole turkey neck, she
> chews the fat end just enough to break up the bones and make it
> skinnier, then swallows the darned thing whole.

> Here are my questions:
> 1) Is this normal?

It's pretty much how my Danes chew turkey necks. They chew it up
until its kind of a long string of mush then swallow it.
Occasionally they will hork it back up, chew a little more then
swallow again.

> 2) Will swallowing this thing whole hurt her?

No

> 3) Should we cut the necks into smaller chunks (defeating
> the purpose of the raw meaty bone for her teeth and jaws?

No ... Mine eat the big long ones about a foot long.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Ems xxx

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (9)
________________________________________________________________________

11b. Re: Whole Turkey Necks
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Oct 15, 2007 2:19 pm ((PDT))

Marilyn Neil <ems1classic@...> wrote:
>
> I found one of my Golden bitches chocking on a turkey neck. I
managed to grab an end and pull the whole thing out. She hadnt chewed
it and thought it would go down in one go. I now cut the turkey necks
in half. Better safe than sorry!
*****
Cutting a turkey neck in half does not remedy the situation. In fact,
there's no advantage to your golden who will still be inclined to
swallow a body part that looks gosh awfully like something just perfect
for swallowing; and you have less to grab onto when she repeats her
choking performance.

If you must rely on turkey necks, please consider the biggest darn
things you can find (tom necks are as good as turkey necks get).
Chris O

Messages in this topic (9)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

12a. Re: Here we go....
Posted by: "Jennifer" kali_moonwolf@yahoo.com kali_moonwolf
Date: Mon Oct 15, 2007 1:11 pm ((PDT))

Andrea
Thanks so much for breaking it down! I've already pretty much fed
everything, and he loved the liver (haha) but Im not giving that very
often. He's pooping once a day, (which is twice so far) and it's the
rest of the kibble coming out. He's also had a small fever... about
102.9, and can't the introducion of raw food do that, as he gets used
to the enzymes? His activity level and attitude is great! LOVES the
chicken backs and bones. Im getting the chicken quesrters today... I
added some ground turkey to up the meat of the bones I was giving him
to make sure he doesn't get constipated, and also gave him some
salmon oil. He turned up his nose at my juiced veggies! lol. But
loved the raw egg! Anyway, I also have a lot of whole tilapia fish,
but I've been holding off giving that- figured that he'll also roll
in it, so its saved for bath-day! THanks for all your advice! One
thing I keep hearing concerns calcium/phos ratio for growing bones.
Is that something I need to be concerned about?
-Jennifer

-- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Andrea" <poketmouse45@...> wrote:
>
> Hi, Jennifer, I'm going to recap what you found and give you some
> ideas on meals.
>
> Chicken: found backs, necks, gizzards, feet
> Necks you can save for the cat, backs with gizzards can be a meal
but
> I think for the time being you should get some chicken quarters so
> you don't have to fuss with adding meaty meat to meals. Feet are
> good treats for both dog and cat (if the cat likes them).
>
> Pork: hocks
> I'm assuming these hocks are raw and not smoked, and probably cut
> into about 3" pieces. These might suit your cat better than the
> pup. I err on the side of caution when it comes to small things a
> dog may try to swallow whole.
>
> Beef: liver and tripe
> For now you can stash the liver in the freezer, but it will come in
> handy later. Pups generally tolerate variety well, but you'll want
> to make sure of this before adding liver. When you do add it, just
> give a fingernail sized portion at first. Unfortunately the tripe
> you bought is boiled and bleached for human consumption. It isn't
> the smelly goodness that we refer to as green tripe. You can
choose
> to toss it or let the pup wrestle with it, but it isn't much in the
> way of food anymore.
>
> Other than the tripe, you'll be able to use pretty much everything
> you got. I would definitely recommend getting chicken quarters to
up
> the meat content of the meals.
>
> As far as how much food, if the pup should be about 130lbs as an
> adult, you'll be feeding around 3lbs a day (large dogs usually eat
> closer to 2%) for now split that up into three meals of 1lb each.
> Easy, right?
>
> Andrea
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Jennifer" <kali_moonwolf@>
> wrote:
>
> > I don't think I did the calculation right... if he will be
> > around 130lbs when grown, then I take 3% of his expected body
> > weight, and divide that into 3 meals per day (whew, my head is
> > spinning
>

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

13.1. Re: confused
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Mon Oct 15, 2007 2:52 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Jean!
The truth is, dogs are wolves and wolves are carnivores. Plant
matter isn't species appropriate food.

Inappropriate food causes malnourishment; health problems, immune
suppression, allergies, dirty teeth, gum disease and sets the dog up for a
lifetime subject to disease and ill health.

Most vets see dogs that are fed commercially processed foods, so they don't
know what a really healthy dog looks like!

A pediatrician wouldn't recommend that a toddler be fed exclusively on Fruit
Loops or Cocoa Puffs and Mickey Dees - why? Because its not an adequate diet
to support a growing body and that stuff of full of inappropriate additives
and inadequate ingredients for humans.

Why do vets endorse Doom Nuggets *tm (Carrie ^_^) ?? Because they get
virtually no nutrition education, and what they do get is provided by the
pet food corps, who give millions of $$ - scholarships, free 'training',
endowments for professorships, etc. to universities and medical schools
yearly. They even give practicing vets discounts and incentives and
'continuing education' in pet nutrition if they sell their products.

The pet food industry began not because D.N. were better for dogs, but
because someone got the bright idea to make an 'easy' way to feed dogs, and
to make lots of money! What keeps the ball rolling is the millions of $$
that the pet food industry puts into advertising to justify feeding
substandard and inappropriate ingredients to a public primed to accept
whatever "The Experts" tell them;
http://terriermandotcom.blogspot.com/2004/09/history-of-dog-food.html
http://www.4loveofdog.com/nutrition.htm
http://www.amazon.com/Food-Pets-Die-Shocking-Facts/dp/0939165317

With the recent far ranging pet food recalls of this year, doesn't it make
more sense not to feed your pup commercially processed foods? The pet food
corps do not have your dog's health as a priority, its all about the $$$.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_pet_food_recalls
http://www.itchmo.com/recalled-pet-food-list-cats-dogs-and-other-pets/
Let me know if you want me to send you a file that I've kept of the recalls
and articles as they were published earlier this year.

This list supports and promotes a species appropriate raw whole prey model
diet. And we're 10,000 strong! There are many more people 'out there', all
over the world, who feed their dogs raw, too.

Following is some info and links you can print out for yourself and your
vet;

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/143301

message # 143301

wiki says, in part;

**DOG

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog

Conservation status

Domesticated

Scientific classification

Domain: Eukaryota

Kingdom: Animalia

Phylum: Chordata

Class: Mammalia

*Order: Carnivora*

Family: Canidae

Genus: Canis

Species: C. lupus

Subspecies: C. l. familiaris

Trinomial name

Canis lupus familiaris

Wolf ancestors

Although all wolves belong to the species Canis lupus, there are (or were)
many subspecies that had developed a distinctive appearance, social
structure, and other traits. For example, the Japanese Wolf and the Eastern
Timber Wolf possess different distinctive coloration, hunting and social
structures. The origin of the dog is so ancient and so worldwide that many
varieties of wolf played a part in it. It is wrong to say that dogs
descended from modern wolves. They descended from ancestral wolves, and this
difference must always be kept in mind. Ancestral wolves of many varieties
existed all over the world.

The Indian Wolf is thought to have contributed to the development of more
breeds of dogs than other subspecies. Many of today's wild dogs, such as the
dingo and the pariah dogs, are descended from this wolf. The Indian Wolf is
also thought to have bred with descendants of the European wolf to create
the Mastiffs and eventually leading to the development of such diverse
breeds as the Pug, the Saint Bernard, and the Bloodhound. The Tibetan
Mastiff is an example of an ancient breed.

The European wolf, in turn, may have contributed many of its attributes to
the Spitz dog types, most terriers, and many of today's sheepdogs. The
Chinese wolf is probably ancestor to the Pekingese and toy spaniels,
although it is also probable that descendants of the Chinese and European
wolves encountered each other over the millennia, contributing to many of
the oriental toy breeds.

The Eastern Timber Wolf is a direct ancestor to most, if not all, of the
North American northern sled dog types. This interbreeding still occurs with
dogs living in the Arctic region, where the attributes of the wolf that
enable survival in a hostile environment are valued by humans. Additionally,
unintentional crossbreeding occurs simply because dogs and wolves live in
the same environment. The general reproductive isolation which is required
to define dogs and wolves as separate species is purely a result of lack of
opportunity, stemming from a general mutual unfamiliarity, suspicion,
mistrust, and fear.

The phenotypic characteristics that distinguish a wolf from a dog are
tenuous. Wolves typically have a "brush tail" and erect ears. While some dog
breeds possess one of these characteristics, they rarely possess both.

**WOLF

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf

Conservation status

Least Concern [1]

Scientific classification

Kingdom: Animalia

Phylum: Chordata

Class: Mammalia

*Order: Carnivora*

Family: Canidae

Genus: Canis

Species: C. lupus

Binomial name

Canis lupus

The Gray Wolf (Canis lupus), also known as the Timber Wolf or, simply, Wolf,
is a mammal of the order Carnivora. The Gray Wolf is the largest member of
the genus Canis. Its shoulder height ranges from 0.6 to 0.9 meters (26–36
inches) and its weight typically varies between 32 and 62 kilograms (70–135
pounds). As evidenced by DNA sequencing and genetic drift studies, the gray
wolf shares a common ancestry with the domestic dog (Canis lupus
familiaris). [2]

Relation to the dog

Much debate has centered on the relationship between the wolf and the
domestic dog, though most authorities see the wolf as the dog's direct
ancestor. Others postulate that dogs descend from the Golden Jackal. Because
the canids have evolved recently and different canids interbreed readily,
untangling the true relationships has been difficult.

**** But molecular systematics now indicate very strongly that domestic dogs
and wolves are more closely related than either is to any other canid, and
the domestic dog is now normally classified as a subspecies of the wolf:
Canis lupus familiaris. ****

The main differences between wolves and domestic dogs are that wolves have,
on average, 20% larger brains, better immune systems, a better sense of
smell, and are generally much larger than domestic dogs.[4

**Coyote

Conservation status

Least Concern [1]

Scientific classification

Kingdom: Animalia

Phylum: Chordata

Class: Mammalia**

*Order: Carnivora*

Family: Canidae

Genus: Canis

Species: C. latrans

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coyote

Diet and hunting

Coyotes are versatile carnivores with a 90% mammalian diet. They primarily
eat small mammals, such as eastern cottontails, thirteen-lined ground
squirrels, and white-footed mice, though they will occasionally eat birds,
snakes, large insects and other large invertebrates. Though they will
consume large amounts of carrion, they tend to prefer fresh meat. Part of
the coyote's success as a species is it's dietary adaptability. As such,
coyotes have been known to readily eat human garbage and household pets.
Fruits and vegetables are a significant part of the coyote's diet in the
autumn and winter months.[2]

Coyotes will sometimes mate with domestic dogs, usually in areas like Texasand
Oklahoma where the coyotes are plentiful and the breeding season is extended
because of the warm weather. The resulting hybrids called coydogs maintain
the coyote's predatory nature, along with the dog's lack of timidity toward
humans, making them a usually more serious threat to livestock than pure
blooded animals. This cross breeding has the added effecct of confusing the
breeding cycle. Coyotes usually breed only once a year, while coydogs will
breed year-round, producing many more pups than a wild coyote. A
distinguishable feature in a coydog is the ears and tail.[9]

Coyotes have also been known on occasion to mate with wolves. The offspring,
known as a coywolf is generally intermediate in size to both parents, being
larger than a pure coyote, but smaller than a pure wolf. A study showed that
of 100 coyotes collected in Maine, 22 had half or more wolf ancestry, and
one was 89 percent wolf. A theory has been proposed that the large eastern
coyotes in Canada are actually hybrids of the smaller western coyotes and
wolves that met and mated decades ago as the coyotes moved toward New
England from their earlier western ranges.[8] The red wolf is considered by
some to be a wolf/coyote hybrid, due to its habit of readily mating with
coyotes and the fact that it carries no unique genetic trait that would make
it distinct from coyotes and grey wolves.[10]

**Canidae

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canidae

http://www.rawlearning.com/rawfaq.html

http://www.rawfed.com/myths/index.html

http://rawfeddogs.net/Recipes

http://mypetcarnivore.com/dogs_eating.htm

*http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/141374 *

*post # 141374*
HTHs, Jean - please post if you have more questions
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

On 10/15/07, jean2armstrong <jean2armstrong@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
> ++++Mod note: please sign your emails +++++++++
>
> I have a 3 mo. border collie/husky....with lots of energy....she has
> been on high quality kibble...and doing great...beautiful coat...vet
> says she is in good health...so here are my questions...if the vet says
> she is in excellent health now why should I change her diet....how many
> times a day does one feed this raw food...should the fish be dead or
> alive...what bones can she NOT have...and how do you know how much to
> feed her....and how do I get her started on this raw diet...
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (32)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

All information on this list represents personal opinion only. By staying on this list, you agree to never hold anyone from this list or associated with this list liable for any information posted through this list. You agree to take personal responsibility for your learning, and for personal responsibility for what you feed yourself, your family, and your dogs, cats, ferrets, or any other animal that lives under your care. If you don't agree, please unsubscribe immediately.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/

<*> Your email settings:
Digest Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/join

(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:rawfeeding-normal@yahoogroups.com
mailto:rawfeeding-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
rawfeeding-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:

http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

------------------------------------------------------------------------