[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12156

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Fwd: Message not approved: FEEDING SCHEDULE
From: Tina Berry

2a. Re: Is it ok to give puppy 7mos half chicken?
From: Tina Berry
2b. Re: Is it ok to give puppy 7mos half chicken?
From: katkellm
2c. Re: Is it ok to give puppy 7mos half chicken?
From: angela sims
2d. Re: Is it ok to give puppy 7mos half chicken?
From: katkellm

3a. Whole Pork Shoulder
From: thebestformyboys
3b. Re: Whole Pork Shoulder
From: Sandee Lee
3c. Re: Whole Pork Shoulder
From: katkellm
3d. Re: Whole Pork Shoulder
From: costrowski75
3e. Re: Whole Pork Shoulder
From: Morledzep@aol.com

4.1. Re: New Puppy
From: Bumble1994@aol.com

5a. a question on beef
From: kickrocks54
5b. Re: a question on beef
From: costrowski75
5c. Re: a question on beef
From: carnesbill

6. Finding rabbit
From: becca1066

7. A report..
From: Carol Dunster

8a. Re: Concerned about missing vitamins
From: trayc2244

9. Bella - Pregnant and not eating
From: Renate

10a. Helping a nursing bitch: Is feeding raw with kibble a good idea?
From: kaebruney
10b. Re: Helping a nursing bitch: Is feeding raw with kibble a good idea?
From: katkellm
10c. Re: Helping a nursing bitch: Is feeding raw with kibble a good idea?
From: katkellm

11a. Re: Gathering Info.
From: Lynette

12. Here we go....
From: Jennifer

13.1. ADMIN/Re: New Puppy
From: costrowski75

14a. Re: Watery stools -but not diarrhoea HELP
From: carnesbill

Messages
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1a. Re: Fwd: Message not approved: FEEDING SCHEDULE
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Fri Oct 12, 2007 3:41 pm ((PDT))

"You don't have to feed gorge and fast method, you don't have to encourage
anyone else to do it, not everyone feeds that way, it's not a
requirement...but it is not extreme, it is not overkill, it is normal!"

I agree this is normal; if they ate 3 days worth of meals in one sitting,
they would be fine for 3 days digesting. I don't feed this way because it's
harder for me to keep track of what I fed them the last time; so I feed
everyone 1.5 - 2lbs daily and if they loose a little weight I feed more, and
vice versa.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

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Messages in this topic (6)
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2a. Re: Is it ok to give puppy 7mos half chicken?
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Fri Oct 12, 2007 3:41 pm ((PDT))

"I just got 2 chickens cut in half. Is it ok to give the puppy a half? Man I
am nervous.... :-)They all have one ....."

Yes it's okay and if he doesn't eat it all put it in the frig for his next
meal.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (5)
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2b. Re: Is it ok to give puppy 7mos half chicken?
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Fri Oct 12, 2007 4:02 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Tina Berry" <k9baron@...> wrote:

> Yes it's okay and if he doesn't eat it all put it in the frig for
his next
> meal.

and since it is his first raw meal, don't let him overeat because
overeating can give a new to raw dog diarrhea. Remember to stick to
the 2% of his ideal adult weight meal size. KathyM

Messages in this topic (5)
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2c. Re: Is it ok to give puppy 7mos half chicken?
Posted by: "angela sims" angela182548@yahoo.com angela182548
Date: Fri Oct 12, 2007 4:35 pm ((PDT))

Perfect timing guys , thanks ... she ate half and was ready to go outside... should I give it to her later on tonight? Lula & Charlie LOVED IT !! Thanks for guiding me through this!!


katkellm <katkellm@yahoo.com> wrote:
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Tina Berry" <k9baron@...> wrote:

> Yes it's okay and if he doesn't eat it all put it in the frig for
his next
> meal.

and since it is his first raw meal, don't let him overeat because
overeating can give a new to raw dog diarrhea. Remember to stick to
the 2% of his ideal adult weight meal size. KathyM

---------------------------------
Building a website is a piece of cake.
Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (5)
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2d. Re: Is it ok to give puppy 7mos half chicken?
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Fri Oct 12, 2007 6:53 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, angela sims <angela182548@...> wrote:
>
> Perfect timing guys , thanks ... she ate half and was ready to go
outside... should I give it to her later on tonight? Lula & Charlie
LOVED IT !! Thanks for guiding me through this!!

Hi Angela,
I would say, no, tomorrow is another day, and i wouldn't want to feed
a meal at bedtime to a newbie dog-i'm assuming its night now where you
are. I don't think i know how big she is going to get to be, so i
can't judge feeding amounts. Knowing that will help us give you an
idea about your tomorrow feedings. KathyM

Messages in this topic (5)
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3a. Whole Pork Shoulder
Posted by: "thebestformyboys" llb6984@comcast.net thebestformyboys
Date: Fri Oct 12, 2007 3:55 pm ((PDT))

I just bought an 11+lb pork shoulder for my 2 Goldens (80lbs each). I'm
on day 5 of feeding RMB (previously raw, but no bones, dogs have only
ever had beef, chicken and now turkey).
What do I do with this thing? It's huge! I don't want to split it.
Someone won't get a bone right? My dogs don't believe in sharing. How
am I going to feed it?

Thanks for your help!

Laurie Barnett
Port St. Lucie, FL
Golden Retriever brothers: Logan and Cooper (3 1/2 years young)

Messages in this topic (5)
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3b. Re: Whole Pork Shoulder
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Fri Oct 12, 2007 4:00 pm ((PDT))

Laurie,

I usually buy 2, cut a hunk of meat off each to save for future meals...then
both dogs get a bone with a bunch of meat still attached.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "thebestformyboys" <llb6984@comcast.net>

I just bought an 11+lb pork shoulder for my 2 Goldens (80lbs each). I'm
on day 5 of feeding RMB (previously raw, but no bones, dogs have only
ever had beef, chicken and now turkey).
What do I do with this thing? It's huge! I don't want to split it.
Someone won't get a bone right? My dogs don't believe in sharing. How
am I going to feed it?

Messages in this topic (5)
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3c. Re: Whole Pork Shoulder
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Fri Oct 12, 2007 4:10 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "thebestformyboys" <llb6984@...> wrote:
> Someone won't get a bone right? My dogs don't believe in sharing. How
> am I going to feed it?

Hi Laurie,
I would cut the meat up into serving size hunks and feed. Leave some
meat on the bone for a great chew meal and put it in the freezer. Go
get another similar roast, feed through it, and when you get to the
bone wrapped in some meat, defrost the other one and feed em both-each
dog gets their own. KathyM

Messages in this topic (5)
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3d. Re: Whole Pork Shoulder
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Oct 12, 2007 8:43 pm ((PDT))

"thebestformyboys" <llb6984@...> wrote:
>
>
> I just bought an 11+lb pork shoulder for my 2 Goldens (80lbs each).
*****
Oy.
These two characters are quite young. How do they look in their 80
pounds each? That is high for goldens unless they quite large, as in
oversized. Are your youngsters lean machines or are you having to
watch their weight?

> How
> am I going to feed it?
*****
You give it to one dog, allow the dog to eat its fill; then give what's
left to the other dog. Yes, one dog will get the bone and one will
not. Oh well. Next time simply reverse the order. With raw feeding
there's almost always a next time to make amends in.
Chris O

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3e. Re: Whole Pork Shoulder
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Fri Oct 12, 2007 9:34 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 10/12/2007 2:55:27 PM Pacific Standard Time,
llb6984@comcast.net writes:

I just bought an 11+lb pork shoulder for my 2 Goldens (80lbs each). I'm
on day 5 of feeding RMB (previously raw, but no bones, dogs have only
ever had beef, chicken and now turkey).

Laurie,

one pork shoulder roast feeds 4 or 5 dogs here.. i whack off hunks o meat and
the bone with a meal or more worth of meat goes to one of the dogs. Remember
that bone only needs to be 10% of the overall diet. there is absolutely no
need to have bone in every meal.

Whack off meal sized hunks o pork until all you're left with is a bone well
covered in meat. And then give that bone to one of the dogs and something else
to the other dog.

it's really very simple.. and sharp knives are a blessing.
Catherine R.

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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4.1. Re: New Puppy
Posted by: "Bumble1994@aol.com" Bumble1994@aol.com bumble1994
Date: Fri Oct 12, 2007 3:55 pm ((PDT))

Don't know about puppies, but I do have cats.

All raw meat has taurine in it--the most is in heart, which is most easily
found in gizzard/heart packages at my grocery, and I fed one of those chicken
hearts every day or two before I made connections with a guy at a farmer's
market who sells me beef heart for $2 a pound. A pound lasts a good while with
my 3 cats. I do feed salmon oil because I'm not springing for grass fed meat
and grain fed is short on the Omegas. Everything else they need is in the
various types of raw meat my cats eat--chicken, turkey, beef, pork, fish, frog
legs, and when they are lucky, rabbit and lamb. (And an occasional raw egg.)

With the bones, try bone-in chicken breasts or smash up some chicken neck
bones or small wing bones, so he finds there's something good inside. Think 80%
meaty meat with only 10% of the over-time food being bone, and 10% being
liver and some other organ (I've only found kidney--heart and gizzard are not
organs for this way of thinking, but meaty meat). Your older cat doesn't need
to have as much calcium as a kitten would, but he does need some bone.

Here's a web page with some good information:

_http://www.rawfedcats.org/practicleguide.htm_ (http://www.rawfedcat
s.org/practicleguide.htm)

Lynda

In a message dated 10/12/2007 3:07:57 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, "Jennifer"
writes:

I feed my 12-yr old cat that I adopted last year, raw food and his health as
greatly improved,
however, I give him several supplements, including taurine, salmon
oil, kelp, vit. e and b-complex. I can't get him to eat bones... he
eats AROUND the bone... any suggestions there?

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (75)
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5a. a question on beef
Posted by: "kickrocks54" kick_rocks54@hotmail.com kickrocks54
Date: Fri Oct 12, 2007 4:10 pm ((PDT))

hey everyone, im adam with my 4 mo pitbull "Rabbit". Rabbit has been
eating raw for a couple weeks and doing very well aside from the
occasional runny stool. A little rubbing at his muzzle, but i am
pretty sure that is due to his teeth coming in.

Mostly hes been eating chicken quarters, a little boneless chicken. I
want to get him going on beef, just kinda curious what kinds. i
bought a few racks of ribs for him, tho i dont think he can eat the
bones in them so it seems kind of pointless(aside from the fact he
loves to chew on them) to use that as a meal.

To get to the point, does anyone out there use beef for any of their
dogs bone intake? If so, what type of cuts. And also, would a chunk
of ribs be an appropriate meal?

One thing i just had to add was while searching the net for info on
this just a bit ago, i came across an article saying why raw was bad.
At the end the author sited some sorces. clamed a couple Dr.s had
some input and said that the additional studdies had been conducted
by Purina and Iams. Wow, people believe this stuff? lol

I also want to say thanks to all the people out there who know their
info and are willing to come on here and help people like me and the
other thousands of curious members. The reassurance is outstanding, i
remember being nervious and anxious starting out and the best advice
i ever found here was "RELAX, both you and your dog will be fine".
once again, thank you and appreciate any and all input everyone out
there has.

Adam + Rabbit

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5b. Re: a question on beef
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Oct 12, 2007 8:57 pm ((PDT))

"kickrocks54" <kick_rocks54@...> wrote:
>> To get to the point, does anyone out there use beef for any of
their
> dogs bone intake? If so, what type of cuts. And also, would a chunk
> of ribs be an appropriate meal
*****
My guess is some dogs are capable of using ribs as edible bone, some
are able to use brisket bone, and some can crunch through oxtails
(and similarly necks) with a degree of success. Most dogs though
don't make much headway in most beef bones. Beef bones are not
generally regarded as dietary bone, no.

However, since there's nothing that says every bone presented as
edible must in fact be entirely eaten, often adequate dietary bone is
available from beef bones that are only nibbled at or gnawed on.

> One thing i just had to add was while searching the net for info
on
> this just a bit ago, i came across an article saying why raw was
bad.
> At the end the author sited some sorces. clamed a couple Dr.s had
> some input and said that the additional studdies had been conducted
> by Purina and Iams. Wow, people believe this stuff? lol
*****
Think of all the folks who thought the sun revolved around the
earth. There's a lot of pressure out there to believe this stuff.
Sad, no?
Chris O

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5c. Re: a question on beef
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Fri Oct 12, 2007 9:02 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "kickrocks54" <kick_rocks54@...>
wrote:
>
> Mostly hes been eating chicken quarters, a little
> boneless chicken. I
> want to get him going on beef, just kinda curious what kinds.

Adam, Don't get in too big a rush. There is plenty of time to get
to beef. Personally I don't feed beef bones to my two adult Great
Danes because of the density of the bones. Some people feed them
with no problems but I don't think it would be good to give them to
a newbie puppy.

I suggest you introduce turkey then pork on your way to beef. Beef
is kind of rich and can cause digestive problems in some dogs if
introduced too early in the raw diet.

> i
> bought a few racks of ribs for him, ...

A rack of pork ribs would be much easier for him. Bones are
softer. If he can't handle the pork ribs he certainly can't handle
beef ribs.

> To get to the point, does anyone out there use beef for any
> of their
> dogs bone intake?

I always feed boneless beef. Sometimes people give me old T-bones
and other cuts with bones but I cut the meat off the bones and give
them the meat.

> One thing i just had to add was while searching the net for
> info on
> this just a bit ago, i came across an article saying why raw
> was bad.

heh heh I've read a couple of articles that said that dogs can't
digest bones. If thats true, my dogs must have 500lbs of bones in
their tummies. :) :) :)

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

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6. Finding rabbit
Posted by: "becca1066" becca1066@yahoo.com becca1066
Date: Fri Oct 12, 2007 4:35 pm ((PDT))

I know there are several sources who ship, but your best bet is either
a query on the yahoo group "meatrabbits", or check the ARBA site for
breeders. Sometimes people raising little cute bunnies are horrified
at the idea of anyone eating them-but most people appreciate a chance
to get rid of culls (NOT bad rabbits, just not show quality or brood
quality)
I know a champion breeder who sells culls to raw feeders-just ask how
they're raised

and nutritionally, rabbit is one of the most nutritious meats you can
get-we got started feeding a little girl with a bad heart

becca

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7. A report..
Posted by: "Carol Dunster" cedunster@centurytel.net carwynst
Date: Fri Oct 12, 2007 6:54 pm ((PDT))

After giving my four Silkys raw hamburger, some liver and eggs for a
few days (that's what I had on hand), yesterday I bought some real
chicken with bones. So, today they all had a nice meaty chicken wing
(with some of the body meat on it). I feed them in their crates every
day anyway, so I fed them and went to do some chores.

When it was time for them to go out, a couple of hours later, all
signs of chicken were gone and all four dogs had obviously done just
fine with it! Good little terrors... erm terriers!

I don't expect any problems at all moving them to raw. I also had the
great idea that whatever I give them, I'm going to put just a little
of out for the cats to check out. Someone ate some hamburger today...
not sure which cat, but I think Naomi, who looked very interested.
She's quite a hunter anyway.
~ Carol
_____________
Carol Dunster
cedunster@centurytel.net

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8a. Re: Concerned about missing vitamins
Posted by: "trayc2244" BreeZ119@catt.com trayc2244
Date: Fri Oct 12, 2007 6:54 pm ((PDT))

Thanks so everyone. I am always so worried that I am leaving out
important parts of the diet. Then when I read that book I started
freaking out. Thanks for confirming my original thoughts.

Tracy

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9. Bella - Pregnant and not eating
Posted by: "Renate" renate.tideswell@gmail.com tideswell_renate
Date: Fri Oct 12, 2007 6:54 pm ((PDT))

Bella (shih tzu about 9lbs) was into raw and loving it about 2 weeks then
stopped eating. this was about 3 weeks into her pregnancy and I've read that
it's normal to have a loss of appetite at that point. I've tried to tempt
her back except the only raw she has actually eaten in the last couple of
days is one turkey heart. She ate some cooked turkey today (not much) and
just keeps rejecting raw chicken and pork. I have a really nice piece of
steak she might like. She'll eat a bit of kibble. Should I just give up
until she has the pups? Should I take her to the vet? They want her in to
take scans, but is that necessary?

I gave her the food this morning and she only had a tiny nibble. This
afternoon she wanted out again and ate a bunch of turkey leftovers but left
all the raw, but at least she ate. Should I just let her choose what she
eats for now? - I am just happy she ate something, anything..........

--
Renate
'The more I learn about men, the more I love my Shih Tzu'

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10a. Helping a nursing bitch: Is feeding raw with kibble a good idea?
Posted by: "kaebruney" kaebruney@yahoo.com kaebruney
Date: Fri Oct 12, 2007 7:51 pm ((PDT))

Okay, I know it's nto the ideal, but i wanted to see how I could go
about supplementing the diet of my foster dog with raw.

She is a medium sized dog (less than 30lbs) who was found wandering
the streets 3 days before whelping. She threw NINE pups (all survived
and are doing well thus far) and has since become severely emaciated
(maybe 20-22lbs if not less). The vet she was taken to says she's
doing fine for now, but you can see her every rib, vertebrae and
joint. It's so pathetic.

The rescue group provided Evo Red Meat formula (42% protein) and some
S>D - Rx I.D canned food. Of course the vet is a non raw feeder..
hell, he fed her ProPlan puppy while in his care! *gag!* I'd really
like to help get her healthy by adding some nutritions tidbits to her
diet. But I also know that mixing raw and kibble aren't ideal.

So in the event that one DOES need to combine the two, which was is
best to do it? i.e - alternating days, feeding one in the morning
another at night.. or just mix it all together?

Also, I'd like to add some things to her diet to increase her milk,
help her rebuild (calcium and muscle) and of course to help richen the
milk for her pups. What would be good to give her? I'm thinking
yougurt and eggs for the calcium, fish oil supplements... but what else?

Anyone have suggestions for nursing a nursing bitch back to health? Or
for helping nourish puppies when the mother is severely skinny?

Thanks!

Kae

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10b. Re: Helping a nursing bitch: Is feeding raw with kibble a good idea?
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Fri Oct 12, 2007 9:11 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "kaebruney" <kaebruney@...> wrote:
> So in the event that one DOES need to combine the two, which was is
> best to do it? i.e - alternating days, feeding one in the morning
> another at night.. or just mix it all together?

Hi Kae,
First, i want to tell you how really wonderful i think it is that you
have rescued this poor dog and opened up your home to her and her
puppies. You must be a very caring soul. What i am going to ask you
to considerer, however, is that there just is never an event where you
have to combine kibble and raw. There is absolutely never a situation
that can be improved upon by mixing the two. When you mix the two,
you are not making things better or healthier or more nutritious. You
are not going to speed up your girl's recovery. On the contrary, You
are actually blocking the health benefits of a raw diet. I know that
you love your new dog, and i know that you are willing to spend the
extra money on the supposedly better dog food, but you are being
pulled into the pet food company mentality that they have designed
something that is better for our beloved pets than a healthy raw diet.
Its just not true. Please, reconsider mixing the two. I have never
had a mother dog with puppies, let alone a malnourished one, but i can
tell you that you can trust a raw prey model diet to give your new dog
and puppies the best chance at a speedy and healthy recovery. KathyM

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10c. Re: Helping a nursing bitch: Is feeding raw with kibble a good idea?
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Fri Oct 12, 2007 10:06 pm ((PDT))

Hi Kae,
I just replied to your post and while i really meant what i said, as i
was letting my dogs out for last call, it dawned on me that you
probably weren't going to keep the mommy dog and that the shelter
people probably don't want you to feed raw. So, if me reply seemed
unthoughtful, i am sorry. I guess i don't think there is a good way
to mix them, and i would probably just go all raw for the reasons i
said, but i apologize for not recognizing the dilemma you face.
KathyM

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11a. Re: Gathering Info.
Posted by: "Lynette" lraefried@sbcglobal.net cherrysmomma
Date: Fri Oct 12, 2007 7:51 pm ((PDT))

I just wanted to thank all of you who have given me information. I will
start paying more attention to store adds, and check out craigs list and
the other(which I cant recall at the moment). Also, one of you
mentioned a Coop. I am not sure what a Coop is? And how do I look for
one? Is it as simple as searching the internet?

Lynette

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12. Here we go....
Posted by: "Jennifer" kali_moonwolf@yahoo.com kali_moonwolf
Date: Fri Oct 12, 2007 8:24 pm ((PDT))

Hi, this is Jennifer with Tikahni! I went to fiesta and found tons of
cheap and un-polluted meat! I have 3 packages of chicken backs, 2
packages of pork hocks, 1 of chicken necks (also for my cat), 1 package
of chx gizzards, 3 packages of tripe, 2 packages of chx feet and 2 lbs
of beef liver (they didn't have heart, have to get it somewhere
else)... and im trying to divide it up into bags per day. (I left the
leg quarters at the store, and I think all this may have too much bone
and not enough meat, since he is 7 wks old). Are there any opinions of
how I should ration it out: some tripe, some liver and some feet, or
etc? Also, I don't think I did the calculation right... if he will be
around 130lbs when grown, then I take 3% of his expected body weight,
and divide that into 3 meals per day (whew, my head is spinning), then
he hsould be eating almost 4lbs a day.... right? And occaisonally
salmon oil, raw eggs and juice! ;o) Thanks!
-Jennifer

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13.1. ADMIN/Re: New Puppy
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Oct 12, 2007 8:31 pm ((PDT))

The rawfeeding list is not the place to discuss vaccines. The RawChat
list is. Please post all vaccine questions and answers to RawChat or
take them private.
Chris O
Moderation Team

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14a. Re: Watery stools -but not diarrhoea HELP
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Fri Oct 12, 2007 9:01 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "mrskheath" <mrskheath@...> wrote:
>
> Yesterday she passed stools - I noticed that they were small stools -
> 3 or 4 'pieces' about 2 - 3 cm each, but were in a watery gloopy
> substance. Is this down to the switch to just 1 meal?

Who knows? I don't see it as a big deal. It's just one of those
things that happens sometimes. It may be the one meal. It may be
something else. Don't expect every poop to look alike. It's not
serious. Don't worry about it.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

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