[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12152

There are 14 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Great Prices on chicken
From: T Smith

2a. Re: Gathering Info.
From: Lynette Friedrichs
2b. Re: Gathering Info.
From: carolejc2007

3a. Re: switching kitten to raw
From: girlndocs

4. Liver refusal and a bit of introduction
From: Nataly A

5a. Re: Dog/Household Cleanliness
From: T Smith

6a. Re: I am so confused...Please help
From: Morledzep@aol.com
6b. Re: I am so confused...Please help
From: kickrocks54
6c. Re: I am so confused...Please help
From: Daisy Foxworth

7a. Re: Gorging---bloat concern?
From: Morledzep@aol.com

8. Venison?
From: jennifer_hell

9a. Re: BALANCED EATING
From: angela182548
9b. Re: BALANCED EATING
From: bluegracepwd

10a. Re: I'm starting to become concerned about my little Iggy
From: carolejc2007

Messages
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1a. Re: Great Prices on chicken
Posted by: "T Smith" coldbeach@gmail.com lhasaspots
Date: Thu Oct 11, 2007 10:13 pm ((PDT))

Yes, you got it, WA state & SAARs.
We have a full freezer, another freezer with a little space left & stocking
up on more.
I have a third freezer coming as soon as we can get it home ;-)
I just want to get as much as I can since I am feeding so many dogs!
Trina
--
Chip (deaf Dalmatian)
Casper (deaf Great Dane)
Whisper (deaf Great Dane)
Louie (hearing Great Dane)
Joey (deaf & blind Lhasa Apso)
Amy (disabled Lhasa Apso)
Cassandra (disabled Lhasa Apso)
Mr Paris (Lhasa Apso)
Chloe (deaf & blind Spaniel mix)

On 10/11/07, girlndocs <girlndocs@hotmail.com> wrote:

> You must be in WA -- we have a Saar's Market Place by us too. ("By
> us," heh, that would be my German grandmother coming through there ...)
>
> We snagged a couple bags -- would have got more but we don't have a
> big freezer yet. Don't know if you've opened yours yet but they're
> pretty big quarters, some of them have the backs attached as well (!)
> and I found at least one with some ribs and lungs on.
>
> I don't think the wholesale folks even carry chicken this cheap in the
> 30-lb cases.
>
> Kristin
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (5)
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2a. Re: Gathering Info.
Posted by: "Lynette Friedrichs" lraefried@sbcglobal.net cherrysmomma
Date: Thu Oct 11, 2007 10:13 pm ((PDT))

Lynette Friedrichs <lraefried@. ..> wrote:
The chicken in the grocery stores seems to contain 12% broth
solutions. How do you find chicken that isnt filled with this?
*****
Keep hunting.
Also, ask. If you tell us your general location, I'll betcha someone
will be from your neck o' the woods, and will have advice. There are
those who will tell you not to sweat the small stuff. I think you
should sweat the small stuff if you want to--but you may have to do
some leg work (or internet surfing or telephoning) .

Also, I spotted some little Cornish game hens that were not filled
with solution. Would these be able to take the place of chicken?
*****
They are chicken, just younger. And some brands are
indeed "enhanced", so don't stop reading those labels. I split game
hens between my 31lb dog and the 10lb cat (not an even split) when I
find game hens cheap. They come and go, they do. For a while a
local store celebrating a "grand reopening" sold game hens for .99/lb
so how could I resist? Whole "real" chickens will be cheaper, you
just have to be persistent.

> When feeding raw, do any of you ever give your dogs your food while
you are eating? Like bits of toast or french fries?
*****
Oh, I certainly do. Not as bad as "one for me, one for you" and not
from the table, but I do share bits and pieces. Toast corners, ice
cream bowls to lick, crumbs to clean up, even table scraps. I don't
see a conflict between a good raw diet and treats. It's when treats
stop being special and start being ordinary that the concept has to
be rethunk.

Chris O

"""""""""""""""""""""""""
Keep hunting.
Also, ask. If you tell us your general location, I'll betcha someone
will be from your neck o' the woods, and will have advice. There are
those who will tell you not to sweat the small stuff. I think you
should sweat the small stuff if you want to--but you may have to do
some leg work (or internet surfing or telephoning) .

(((I live in the Fort Worth, Texas area. Anybody out there that lives here?....I would like to know where you find your meat)))

Lynette

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (8)
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2b. Re: Gathering Info.
Posted by: "carolejc2007" mooska2me@sbcglobal.net carolejc2007
Date: Fri Oct 12, 2007 5:36 am ((PDT))

> (((I live in the Fort Worth, Texas area. Anybody out there that
lives here?....I would like to know where you find your meat)))
>
> Lynette
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

***

Lynette ~

Wal-Mart sells 10 lb bags of chicken thighs/legs for something like
$4.96 and I don't believe they have anything added to enhance the
flavor. Also, watch your sales at Kroger as many times they will
sell whole untreated chickens for .69 lb. Have you checked out the
Hispanic Markets? Try Terry's or Fiesta. They have great prices on
a variety of meats. I found chicken feet at Tarry's last weekend
and they make great treats for the dogs. Good luck in
your "hunting".

Carole

Messages in this topic (8)
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3a. Re: switching kitten to raw
Posted by: "girlndocs" girlndocs@hotmail.com girlndocs
Date: Thu Oct 11, 2007 10:13 pm ((PDT))

> As we speak she is
> trying to get into my Dobie's crate while Grover munches on a lamb
> leg.

Isn't that hysterical? Our little gray cat is always trying to swipe
food from right under the dog. She gets told off for her impertinence,
though!

Kristin

Messages in this topic (8)
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4. Liver refusal and a bit of introduction
Posted by: "Nataly A" rap_squad@yahoo.com rap_squad
Date: Thu Oct 11, 2007 10:20 pm ((PDT))

++++Mod note: please sign your emails. thx. ++++++++++++

Hey all,

I have a cat and 2 dogs on raw diet - my dogs: a female aussie
shepard, she's 2y4m and a great pyrenees mountain dog which is 10m
old. i have been feeding them raw since i got them at age 8 weeks,
and been feeding raw in general for about 3 years now.
for the past few months i have a problem that just won't go away, one
at a time my babies decided they don't wanna eat liver, and it seems
now they're starting to refuse chicken hearts too. mostly it's the
aussie who is VERY perticular about what she's eating. she just spits
out the organs and looks at me with this "where is the real meat
lady?" face.
i tried not feeding her till she's hungry as hell and will eat, but
she just stoped eating for 2 days and wasn't willing to even touch
the livers/hearts offered to her. my mother in-law, which i converted
too, says that she has the same prob. with her 2 dogs.

so now what? what do u think i should do? has anyone encountered this
problem?

Messages in this topic (1)
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5a. Re: Dog/Household Cleanliness
Posted by: "T Smith" coldbeach@gmail.com lhasaspots
Date: Thu Oct 11, 2007 10:25 pm ((PDT))

Of course my Danes & Dal have no hair issues. Just drooling salmonella &
meat parts all around the house after a good meal LOL! Dane owners know
what it's like to have slobber rags in every room... might be a good choice
for you too? Or keep disinfecting wipes around, too. Also we have soap at
every single sink to wash hands often, bleach if you grab a door handle by
accident after handling the meat & rags to open, close doors with and
remember: TOSS the rags in the laundry after every use! oK, I am a bit of a
germaphobe... sometimes people use them more than once ;-) You can also
use paper towels since i toss em after i dry my hands one time. We do alot
of laundry, can you tell?
My Lhasas are all retired or not shown.
They have no hair on those ears LOL
I keep them stripped with a 7# blade, ears too.
This is also for health reasons. The blind guy gets so much eye meds so
often, his face is kept down with a 10# blade.
If you have a coated breed, perhaps a snood, banding, braiding, or shave it
off if you don't need it: easier to shave it & keep em clean.
Trina
P.S. I like the sig..... at least you didn't add ~ ~ ~~ to it LOL

On 10/11/07, Jaala <vaughanjaala@aol.com> wrote:
>
> ***MODERATOR'S NOTE: PLEASE SIGN YOUR MESSAGES.***
>
> My two short hair dogs keep themselves pretty clean. With my poodle, I
> band her ears while she is eating and try to ignore the stuff on her
> legs :P
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (9)
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6a. Re: I am so confused...Please help
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Fri Oct 12, 2007 2:00 am ((PDT))

In a message dated 10/11/2007 3:57:20 PM Pacific Standard Time,
BreeZ119@catt.com writes:

Can someone let me
know which would be better, starting raw asap, or fasting 2-7 days.

Tracy,

if i know that the dog has eaten and what the dog has eaten and it's NOT a
puppy i would fast the dog for ONE day before starting raw, but that is a
personal preference of MINE.. That is not a rule, or even recommended by most folks.

i feed my dogs on a light gorge/fast type of schedule. and there is NO WAY
anyone on this list would recommend fasting more than one or two days.

My Simba didn't eat for 4 days once and it took two days to get him to eat
normally again. He vomitted and slept and wouldn't move the first day after
eating only a couple bites and the second day he ate a very small meal (for him)
1.5 lbs of ground green tripe. the third day he ate normally.. needless to
say, we will NOT be allowing the dogs to go 4 days between meals again, even if
i have to kill my hubby and feed him to the dogs.. lol.

Catherine R.

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (18)
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6b. Re: I am so confused...Please help
Posted by: "kickrocks54" kick_rocks54@hotmail.com kickrocks54
Date: Fri Oct 12, 2007 4:31 am ((PDT))

Now, dinner takes just 5 minutes and
> comes second nature to us. Just do it and stop thinking so hard.
> You'll be so happy you did it for your pets! ;)
> Rachelle in MS

i too am pretty new to the raw feeding, but this right here is probably
the best advice anyone could have given me. stop thinking so hard! i
was stressed out and thinking and it was horrible. its not good, your
dog picks up on that stuff too. then one day i just thought, he'll be
fine. he's been eating raw for a few weeks now, and has more energy
than ive ever seen from him. my roommate has 2 other dogs who eat
kibble. Rabbit(my pup) used to go and eat their kibble, now he wont get
near it. nasy stuff. anyway, good luck to you, tho confusion will fade
and soon tossing a chicken quarter to your dog will be second nature
for both of you.

adam

Messages in this topic (18)
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6c. Re: I am so confused...Please help
Posted by: "Daisy Foxworth" daisyfoxworth@yahoo.com daisyfoxworth
Date: Fri Oct 12, 2007 5:39 am ((PDT))

>
> Now, dinner takes just 5 minutes and
> > comes second nature to us. Just do it and stop thinking so hard.
> > You'll be so happy you did it for your pets! ;)
> > Rachelle in MS
>
>
> i too am pretty new to the raw feeding, but this right here is
probably
> the best advice anyone could have given me. stop thinking so hard!

LOL. My favorite website on not overthinking rawfeeding is this
jewel -

http://www.rawfeddogs.net/Recipes

Daisy

Messages in this topic (18)
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7a. Re: Gorging---bloat concern?
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Fri Oct 12, 2007 2:08 am ((PDT))

In a message dated 10/11/2007 3:44:55 PM Pacific Standard Time,
fraserk7@hotmail.com writes:

Bloat isn't a raw fed problem... it's more so a kibble fed problem. Even
breeds who have major bloat problems... raw fed breeders havn't had the
cases that kibble feeders do even with percautions.

****i've missed most of this thread, and i don't know who is asking what.

but i must say..

bloat HAPPENS. Raw fed dogs bloat too, it's not just a kibble fed dog thing.


Bloat has no known cause, and other than being more prevalent in kibble fed
dogs there is no correlation between the amount, or the frequency of feedings
having any effect on whether a dog is going to bloat or not.

Dogs with empty stomachs bloat, as do dogs that have recently eaten.. it is
NOT predictable. No one knows what causes it, and there is NO WAY to prevent
it.

Catherine R.

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (12)
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8. Venison?
Posted by: "jennifer_hell" jenniferhell@web.de jennifer_hell
Date: Fri Oct 12, 2007 3:31 am ((PDT))

Any advice/ opinion/ input on venison? I can get ribs during the next
two months or so. Is it fatty?
I'm still in the "chicken" phase (first week), lol- so I'd wait until
I've introduced beef, turkey and lamb in a couple of weeks or more?
Does that sound right?
Oh- Mandy is a 55lb pitbull.
Thank you for any input!

Jennifer with Mandy in Germany

Messages in this topic (1)
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9a. Re: BALANCED EATING
Posted by: "angela182548" angela182548@yahoo.com angela182548
Date: Fri Oct 12, 2007 4:11 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "miensasis" <kpmnlm@...> wrote:
>
Hi Nancy,
I am new to raw and wanted to know if you could please explain to me
what 80-10-10 w/5%liver ratio means. Thank you so much, Angela

> Hi....
>
> I know that its the balance of meat/skin/connective tissue,
organs,
> and bone that forms the perfect nutritional balance for this way
of
> raw eating. I've been seeing posts that its balance over time
that
> really counts, but some have posted that they think the amount of
> bone they feed can be actually be more like 25-30% over the long-
> term. I was wondering---what is the most nutritionally important
of
> the 3 components? I know we try to achieve the 80-10-10 (w/5%
liver)
> ratio, but if you were to err on the side of a little more of one
of
> the dietary components, which is the healthiest one to do more of
and
> least nutritive one to do less of? Also, does anyone know what
the
> long-term effects would be of feeding a diet consistently with
more
> than the 10% of bone?
>
> I'm really new to this and really just sticking as close as
possible
> to the suggested ratio with chicken meat on the the bone and the
> occasional organ for the time being (I am for sure feeding bone
> probably more in the 20-25% range to my newbie dogs since I do a
lot
> of leg quarters and split bone-in breasts or quartered whole
> chickens), but these are questions I have as I read the posts and
> think about feeding my dogs raw over the long term.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Nancy
>

Messages in this topic (4)
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9b. Re: BALANCED EATING
Posted by: "bluegracepwd" janea@tpg.com.au bluegracepwd
Date: Fri Oct 12, 2007 4:18 am ((PDT))

Hi Angela,

this is what I think about balance:

Balance is all about making sure the bag of fish in your left hand,
weighs about the same as the pig's head in your right hand.
Otherwise, one shoulder gets sorer than the other.

The alternative explanation, is balance refers to ensuring you've
stacked your wheelbarrow well, so that the 40kg of chiken pieces,
and the 15 kg of fish does not topple over when you're pushing it up
to the shed. Balance. Very important. A spill can mean the dogs
get to feed early! Mind you, balance is even more important if
you're trying to move 5 whole sheep or goat carcasses. When you
over-balance the wheelbarrow, those buggers are damn hard to pick up
again. If I don't get my balance right then, you'll find me taking
to the carcass with a knife on my drive, so I can hack it up into
pieces small enough for me to pick up.

Seriously, I've really never engaged in the whole "balance" game.
And it is a game. It's particularly important for pet food
companies to focus on the imaginery concept of balance because that
way they can use the tactic of feeding a dog really difficult, when
in fact, it's bloody easy.

Feed a range of raw meaty bones, plus some offal. If you can ever
get your hands on whole prey, then that's excellent.

I've got a couple of articles here that you might find useful:

http://www.bluegrace.com/resources.html

cheers

Jane

Messages in this topic (4)
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10a. Re: I'm starting to become concerned about my little Iggy
Posted by: "carolejc2007" mooska2me@sbcglobal.net carolejc2007
Date: Fri Oct 12, 2007 5:38 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Morledzep@... wrote:
> Carole,
>
> what you're feeding sounds like it's VERY heavy on bone.. maybe
he's smarter
> than he looks and knows that he needs more meat and not so much
bone.

***
The chicken piece he keeps refusing is a thigh with breast meat;
plenty of meat for him to chew on.

> I just had a thought.. are you cutting up the meat for them?
chicken hearts
> are bite sized.. might wanna check his teeth, sounds like he's
holding out for
> food that doesn't need chewed...

***
He had a dental this past February and passed with flying colors.
He chews on left over bones laying around in the back yard also. His
teeth are fine.

He finally ate part of his chicken last night (along with the
chicken hearts he loves so much) and ate the hamburger I put down
for him this morning. I guess he is going to live!

Carole

Messages in this topic (3)
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