[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12145

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Gorging---bloat concern?
From: Jaala
1b. Re: Gorging---bloat concern?
From: katkellm

2a. Re: duke needs to brush his teeth.
From: Jaala
2b. Re: duke needs to brush his teeth.
From: Giselle
2c. Re: duke needs to brush his teeth.
From: iumadness64

3a. his first whole furry rabbit! He ate it !
From: Lisa S.
3b. Re: his first whole furry rabbit! He ate it !
From: Giselle

4a. no poop
From: rawnewfie
4b. Re: no poop
From: Giselle
4c. Re: no poop
From: Giselle
4d. Re: no poop
From: T Smith
4e. Re: no poop
From: John and Jeni Blackmon

5a. Re: My dog has a chicken allergy.
From: MustBLuvSpaniels@aol.com
5b. Re: My dog has a chicken allergy.
From: Melissa

6a. Re: switching kitten to raw
From: Kristen

7a. Re: WILLTHEY CHOKE ON CHICKEN BONES???
From: angela sims

8. Swollen tum but no other visible signs it is bloat.
From: harrynala

9a. BONES TO CLEAN TEETH
From: angela182548
9b. Re: BONES TO CLEAN TEETH
From: Scott Baker
9c. Re: BONES TO CLEAN TEETH
From: Giselle
9d. Re: BONES TO CLEAN TEETH
From: angela182548

10a. Re: Bonemeal
From: angela182548

11. I'm starting to become concerned about my little Iggy
From: carolejc2007

12. RAW EGGS ?
From: angela182548

13. Green tripe-not so green..questions
From: lar07911

Messages
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1a. Gorging---bloat concern?
Posted by: "Jaala" vaughanjaala@aol.com central_tx_angel04
Date: Wed Oct 10, 2007 10:41 pm ((PDT))

***MODERATOR'S NOTE: SIGN YOUR MESSAGES.***

I have never heard people letting the dogs "gorge" until I saw it in a
post here. Dont get mad! I am neither pro nor con Im just hearing
about it and have questions! Are you not worried about bloat (Gastric
Dilatation-Volvulus)?

Messages in this topic (2)
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1b. Re: Gorging---bloat concern?
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:07 am ((PDT))

MODERATORS NOTE:SIGN YOUR MAILS!!!

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Jaala" <vaughanjaala@...> wrote:
> I have never heard people letting the dogs "gorge" until I saw it in a
> post here. Dont get mad! I am neither pro nor con Im just hearing
> about it and have questions! Are you not worried about bloat (Gastric
> Dilatation-Volvulus)?

Hi Jaala,
No, i'm not worried about bloat because all the bloat studies that
have been done were conducted on dogs fed kibble and do not apply to
raw fed dogs. Its like talking about the adverse effects of drinking
a quart of vodka and then advising people to not drink a quart of oj
because you might get light headed and stagger around. Kibble is
unnatural for a dog to to eat. Raw food is the natural dog food for
wolves, hence our dogs. Raw food is highly digestible while
kibble-look at a kibble vs raw poop-is not. A dog that works up to
eating a big meal has developed stomach muscles that get a great work
out. A dog may choose to eat until its stomach distends. A gorge fed
tummy is ready to digest because it gets a work out and it gets to
work according to the way it was designed to work. We were taught to
not let our dogs eat all they want or they will get sick. While this
may hold true for a kibble fed dog or a new to raw food dog, if wolves
got sick because they ate all they wanted to, they would be extinct by
now. Stress seems to play a factor in bloating and it seems to me
when i watch a kibble feed friend's dogs-fed designer kibble twice a
day- pace around the kitchen when it approaches feeding time that they
are way too concerned that they are going to eat. She thinks they are
happy to eat. To me, they act neurotic. I think they are stressed
because they are going to get to eat just enough to not be hungry but
not enough to be full. A big meal dog knows what it is like to be
really and truly full. They don't eat fast, well since its big food
they can't- but its more like they know how to pace themselves because
they are going to be dining for a long time. After making the choice
to feed raw and stopping vaccines, it is the best decision-big meals
at irregular intervals-that i have made for my dogs. JMO,KathyM--- who
knows it goes against what we have been taught and knows that it takes
a leap of faith and thinks that, since raw feeding is an evolving
journey, even if it sounds crazy now- yep it did to me at first, too-
if you keep an open mind, it might make tons of sense a little ways
down the road.

Messages in this topic (2)
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2a. Re: duke needs to brush his teeth.
Posted by: "Jaala" vaughanjaala@aol.com central_tx_angel04
Date: Wed Oct 10, 2007 10:41 pm ((PDT))

I would try a big soup bone (beef) that he cant swallow. I have large
dogs who "gulp" down everything but big soup bones keep them busy and
chewing for a long time!
~Jaala

Messages in this topic (4)
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2b. Re: duke needs to brush his teeth.
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:36 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Jaala!
"Big Soup Bones", marrow bones, recreational or 'dog' bones
are wreck bones. They wear teeth down and cause breakage and
fractures. Cow bones are too dense, they hold up huge animals! They
don't contact the incisors or canines, nor do they contact the
crevices in between the teeth.
These are what is needed to provide useful 'flossing' and 'brushing'
for dogs!
http://animalscience.unl.edu/meats/id/Porkcuts/IMG0077.GIF
http://www.global-b2b-network.com/direct/dbimage/50292780/Pork_Shoulder.jpg
http://www.salmoncreekfarms.com/natural_pork_products/product_image/picnic.jpg
http://images.jupiterimages.com/common/detail/93/41/23034193.jpg
http://images.jupiterimages.com/common/detail/12/12/23411212.jpg
(don't look if you're squeamish)
http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/images/OB-AD217_bones__20060927153243.jpg
http://www.thewe.cc/thewei/_/valued_life/pig_head.jpe
and turkeys and lambs and goats and smaller critters for smaller dogs
and .......

Edible bones are what dogs need, as well as meatymeat, skin, fat, fur
and connective tissue in large enough portions for the dog to fully
engage his entire body, including all the teeth in his mouth to tear
it up into chunks small enough to swallow.
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> I would try a big soup bone (beef) that he can't swallow. I have large
> dogs who "gulp" down everything but big soup bones keep them busy and
> chewing for a long time!
> ~Jaala

Messages in this topic (4)
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2c. Re: duke needs to brush his teeth.
Posted by: "iumadness64" iumadness64@yahoo.com iumadness64
Date: Thu Oct 11, 2007 5:50 am ((PDT))

I haven't seen any responses that include the 'yarn bone'...maybe since
it isn't a raw item, but considering your post and some talk about
towel shredding, I would think getting a yarn bone from your local pet
store would be a great way for you dog to floss. Every dog I have had
absolutely LOVES theirs. It is good for playing fetch too. Just a
thought.

Mark

Messages in this topic (4)
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3a. his first whole furry rabbit! He ate it !
Posted by: "Lisa S." acbrio@shaw.ca trzazz
Date: Wed Oct 10, 2007 10:43 pm ((PDT))

Hi all,

I have not posted for a while. I just fed my dog his first whole,
four-pound furry rabbit and I was very pleased that he ate the whole
thing !! I took some skin off one side and made a slice in the gut to
help him get started, although I'm not sure that was important, as it
turned out. That's not the part he ate first ! It did take him 25
minutes to figure out how to get started, then he just started eating
like a pro, first a little piece off the butt, then the head, then
the intestines. Thank you to those of you who gave me tips previously
about how to introduce him to whole rabbits - I cannot locate who you
were, even with searches.

I tried him on a skinned rabbit previously and he liked that, so I
then plunged right in with a whole furry rabbit. I'm glad I'm able to
give him something that has all the internal organs, head, etc. I was
surprised that he seemed to eat all the parts, including the fur and
the feet.... as far as I know... I didn't watch his second session
with the rabbit, but I couldn't see any bits remaining in the back
yard. This is great !!! I noticed one of his poops the next day and
there were bits of hair in there, but only when I looked closely.
Weird.

I did take video bits of him eating the rabbit, although I was short
on video tape, so I had to do a few clips only. I was thinking of
posting it on my web shots.

It was a bit disconcerting to have a dead rabbit on hand, then worse
-- a headless, semi-gutted rabbit on a tray in my fridge (since he
did not eat it all in the first session) !

I will have to get more. I'm not sure how well they keep in the
freezer (whole, fur on, I would put each in a bag).

I can't resist the shock value of describing my dog eating a rabbit
or pig head to friends or acquaintances. Heh heh.

- Lisa S.
and Brio (2.5 year old Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever, about 40
pounds, raw fed all of his life, but new to whole things) "Yum. I
like whole, furry rabbit... once I figured out how to get started. I
sure liked those pig heads, too !!"
http://community.webshots.com/user/acbrio

Messages in this topic (2)
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3b. Re: his first whole furry rabbit! He ate it !
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:53 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Lisa!
KEWL!!!

If a partly dismembered rabbit in the fridge squicks you out, just
wrap it in an old kitchen towel, then put it in the fridge! Or the
freezer.

You should post the link here to the vid of your Brio eating the
rabbit when you get it ul. Then, tell us about it when you make your
friends watch!! heh heh ^_^

If you're looking for the archived topics with the names of people who
gave you advice, just type in the name you sign with in the search
box. Or, the siggy you used. That should turn up all the posts you
made, and the posts of people who've quoted you, and the posts in that
particular topic.
Like this;
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/msearch?query=Lisa+S.+Brio&submit=Search&charset=ISO-8859-1
http://tinyurl.com/2x853v
I used { Lisa S. Brio }, no brackets

Are you still noticing the behavior changes in Brio that started when
you began raw feeding?
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> I have not posted for a while. I just fed my dog his first whole,
> four-pound furry rabbit and I was very pleased that he ate the whole
> thing !!
<snip>
Thank you to those of you who gave me tips previously
> about how to introduce him to whole rabbits - I cannot locate who you
> were, even with searches.
<snip>
> I did take video bits of him eating the rabbit, although I was short
> on video tape, so I had to do a few clips only. I was thinking of
> posting it on my web shots.
>
> It was a bit disconcerting to have a dead rabbit on hand, then worse
> -- a headless, semi-gutted rabbit on a tray in my fridge (since he
> did not eat it all in the first session) !
<snip>
> I can't resist the shock value of describing my dog eating a rabbit
> or pig head to friends or acquaintances. Heh heh.
>
> - Lisa S.
> and Brio (2.5 year old Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever, about 40
> pounds, raw fed all of his life, but new to whole things) "Yum. I
> like whole, furry rabbit... once I figured out how to get started. I
> sure liked those pig heads, too !!"
> http://community.webshots.com/user/acbrio

Messages in this topic (2)
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4a. no poop
Posted by: "rawnewfie" rawnewfie@yahoo.com rawnewfie
Date: Wed Oct 10, 2007 10:44 pm ((PDT))

I started my 10 year old retriever on raw food about 3 weeks ago. Mostly it has been fine.
Some things like chicken were tough to entice her to, but she has been OK. Last night she
had a big meal sliced pork toungue, some chicken gizzard and a little chicken livers. after
dinner went for a walk, she tried to go and two little rabbit turds. today no poop. this is now
well over 30 hours without defecating. Tonight my new Newfoundland puppy arrived. I fed
them both rice with a little bit 1/2 cup of milk over it, and some chicken livers. I know the
group is against any grain at all. But I wanted to try and get things moving for the retriever,
and frankly I don't know what to give this 8 week old pup.
How long should I wait before the retriever is an emergency? She is real sluggish and is a
little bit lame, it looks arthitic but this is kind of new.
I made a vet appointment so I anticipate some science diet lecture in my near future.

I have heard from several sources that newfies are historically fed on some sort of meal
meaning porridge or something. Please don't respond with that dogs are 99% wolf DNA. dogs
have been in our stewardship for thousands of years and genetically modified to breed
standards so that rational needs some attention.
Thanks
Todd

Messages in this topic (18)
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4b. Re: no poop
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:57 pm ((PDT))

Todd, if you don't want our advice, why post here?

You don't have a medical emergency, you have a raw fed dog.

TC
Giselle
with Bea (Newfy) in New Jersey

> I started my 10 year old retriever on raw food about 3 weeks ago.
Mostly it has been fine.
<snip>
> I made a vet appointment so I anticipate some science diet lecture
in my near future.
>
> I have heard from several sources that newfies are historically fed
on some sort of meal
> meaning porridge or something. Please don't respond with that dogs
are 99% wolf DNA. dogs
> have been in our stewardship for thousands of years and genetically
modified to breed
> standards so that rational needs some attention.
> Thanks
> Todd

Messages in this topic (18)
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4c. Re: no poop
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Thu Oct 11, 2007 12:08 am ((PDT))

There's tons of topics about what is normal poops in a raw fed dog, if you
just want answers and not advice, check the archives;
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/msearch?date=any&DM=------------&DD=----&DY=----&DM2=------------&DD2=----&DY2=----&AM=contains&AT=&SM=contains&ST=poop&MM=contains&MT=no+poop+little+poop+help&charset=UTF-8
*http://tinyurl.com/385asr

TC
Giselle
*

On 10/11/07, Giselle <megan.giselle@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Todd, if you don't want our advice, why post here?
>
> You don't have a medical emergency, you have a raw fed dog.
>
> TC
> Giselle
> with Bea (Newfy) in New Jersey
>

Last night she had a big meal sliced pork toungue, some chicken gizzard and
> a little chicken livers. after dinner went for a walk, she tried to go and
> two little rabbit turds. today no poop. this is now well over 30 hours
> without defecating.
>

Thanks Todd

>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (18)
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4d. Re: no poop
Posted by: "T Smith" coldbeach@gmail.com lhasaspots
Date: Thu Oct 11, 2007 1:43 am ((PDT))

Hi Todd.
I'm not sure why the milk? I'm just curious, I've never given milk to dogs
or cats.....
The gizzard isn't bone? (thinking here) Perhaps she is using alot of the
food up? It doesn;t sound like too much bone..... I'm still very new so I
look forward to the replies. I do not follow my dogs outside all the
time......Not possible with 7 on raw diet but I scoop often enough & they
all act 'normal' ....but I have noticed a significant reduction in poop to
clean up...thankfully.
Do you think you introduced too much too fast?
Take Care,
Trina

On 10/10/07, rawnewfie <rawnewfie@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I started my 10 year old retriever on raw food about 3 weeks ago. Mostly
> it has been fine.
> Some things like chicken were tough to entice her to, but she has been OK.
> Last night she
> had a big meal sliced pork toungue, some chicken gizzard and a little
> chicken livers. after
> dinner went for a walk, she tried to go and two little rabbit turds. today
> no poop. this is now
> well over 30 hours without defecating. Tonight my new Newfoundland puppy
> arrived. I fed
> them both rice with a little bit 1/2 cup of milk over it, and some chicken
> livers. I know <snip> Please don't respond with that dogs are 99% wolf DNA.
> dogs
> have been in our stewardship for thousands of years and genetically
> modified to breed
> standards so that rational needs some attention.
> Thanks
> Todd
>
>

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Messages in this topic (18)
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4e. Re: no poop
Posted by: "John and Jeni Blackmon" jonjeni777@sbcglobal.net jeniavidiva
Date: Thu Oct 11, 2007 1:45 am ((PDT))

Todd,

Without knowing what you have totally been feeding the babies, like whole chickens, with bone in, or not....and what the normal diet is on a regular basis is, it's hard to say what could be the problem, but I love to try and help out when I'm online, so here goes with what I think might be a few thoughts for you...

I don't normally recommend this, but alot of people use pumkin for everything except what it is good for, like making cute faces at halloween. Because it has both good and bad side effects, it can bind, and also cause runny poos both, so I try NOT to use it unless I really need to. In your case, it might just do what you want it too. And yes, we don't normally advocate things that aren't meat, but we are for helping ya out when it is needed. And pumkin is far better than rice or milk for what you are trying to do here. The milk will really give the dogs runny poos and take a while to get back to normal. And the rice is only a filler so that serves no purpose but to go thru the dog, literally, and that's just mean:) A can of pumkin or some fresh cooked pumkin, steamed until soft, mixed in with some ground chicken or turkey, would do nicely to get things going, without upsetting the whole cart, and give some meat and nice taste for the dogs too:)

Good call on the vet, he could give some good advise, they have been known to from time to time, but it probably isn't the diet, since raw fed dogs, don't poop alot anyway. (I wouldn't even talk about the diet, say for instance, nothing out of the ordinary if asked) That way he has to earn his money and really figure out what it could be. If he recommends a different food, (for whatever reason, unless he has a great medical, reason) say thanks, but she really likes her own food, and we'd like to keep it simple at home. ( and by medical, I mean, I haven't seen that reason yet) If she is Arthritic, it's not the diet, she's an aging woman, and she needs to be made comfortable, at all costs:) I mean feed her well, often, and whatever she wants, that is how I want to go>>:)::)))) Steer the vet away from the diet, if asked if anything new in her life, just say the puppy, (or tell about any other new items, not diet related) but that is too recent to be
this, the sluggish is before the puppy, can he help with that?
Be prepared, most vets, don't know, do, or like, raw diets, and will extremely talk against it. Do this at your own risk and at the risk of not finding out the real problem. My vet and I have an understanding, he is the dr., and I am the mom, he does the fixing and I do the feeding. (he doesn't have alot of fixing to do, and I like it that way)

She may have a blockage, could have eaten something you didn't see, in the yard, or in the house. Dogs are good at that, and I ought to know, mine see it, eat it, and poop out the evidence later, and I'm like, "where did this come from?"

So, little poos, are ok, enjoy that part of the raw diet, we all do. And Remember, 30 hours is only really one day plus a few hours, sometimes a dog can go a few days depending on the dog and what it eats, how often, and so on. So, 30 hours, not so bad, IMHO.

Sluggish, not so ok, unless this is normal for your dog, and only you know your 10 year old. If she is arthritic, some things can be done, and some other people will chime in to help with suppliments to go into it for you on that. Like fish oil and so on, but it can be done. But since you are new to this, we like to do it the "keep it simple" method for the first month or two, until you get the hang of things. The vet might have some ideas for Arthritis too, be careful about straight across pain meds, unless you know she's in pain.

On the new pup, feed the same as the old one, (I'd cut up a whole chicken into quarters and give it one, and see how it does, no need to torture it with the milk and rice, it's just fine, right?) in probably about the same amounts, since you feed for what the dog should eat for it's adult weight. (I don't know what newfies should weigh, I have danes, so you're gonna have to do your own math here) Do your research, and it gets 2-3% of what it should weigh at adulthood, and if you want you can break it into a couple of feedings since it is in puppyhood. That might not be a bad idea for the senior dog too. Just to keep nutrients in the system all the time.
After the puppy is about 6 months or so old, you can go back off to one feeding a day. And later on, when it's older, a year or so, it can be backed off to maint, like to 1% of the weight, and it will probably already be turning down food, when it is full, mine do, when I give them too much. Mine also let me know, when they have been extra active, that they need a little more, by walking into the kitchen, when I'm in the fridge, and sticking their head in with me, and when a dane sticks it's head in the fridge, they're trying to tell you something:)!!!!

On the breed specific diet, I won't do the wolf thing, I don't go there, but I do go to the raw is raw is raw, so mostly I believe, all dogs, whatever breed, should be prey model raw fed, (it's so much easier for me and my dogs, and it's got all they need) whichever way you do that is up to you and how you want to do it. Some add suppliments, I do a few, some don't, some add veggies, I don't unless I have leftovers on my own plate and they look so cute when they beg:)

So, some here will probably chime in on the breed specific thing too, hopefully you will get some great advice from them on your new little pup, and I hope the vet helps you with the senior one too, but I really don't think it is the diet, unless it is just a really satisfied dog, that doesn't feel like doing anything now that it has all it could possibly want, and that could be it too:)

Keep us posted we like to know what the vets say, and we really like updates on you and how your babies are doing. Congrats on going raw, and on the new pup, hopefully it adds vigor to you and your senior's life!

Jeni
Owned, operated, and often tricked, by my two danes, Zeus and Zena, and our pomchi Daisy, and Lucky, the cat, he's just lucky he's not on the menu:)

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Messages in this topic (18)
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5a. Re: My dog has a chicken allergy.
Posted by: "MustBLuvSpaniels@aol.com" MustBLuvSpaniels@aol.com mustbluvspaniels
Date: Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:44 am ((PDT))

my dog is allergic to chicken in kibble and raw. people told me that he
could not be allergic to chicken that is raw, so we fed it and he was bald and
full of yeast and sore for a long time. So If your dog does have a true chicken
allergy he will be allergic to raw chicken also. Lisa

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
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5b. Re: My dog has a chicken allergy.
Posted by: "Melissa" mwood8402@yahoo.com mwood8402
Date: Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:53 am ((PDT))

Hi,

I thought that my Sheltie was allergic to chicken, but he is not.
He's not even allergic to cooked chicken. Though I do believe that he
is allergic to COOKED beef. I would give chicken a try, because it's
probably fine.

-Melissa W

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "m.thompson74" <m.thompson74@...>
wrote:
Is it possible that he may be allergic just to the kibble
> form and he may do just fine with raw? Has anyone else had this
> issue?
>

Messages in this topic (6)
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6a. Re: switching kitten to raw
Posted by: "Kristen" kristengilkinsonrmt@rogers.com kgilkinson
Date: Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:44 am ((PDT))

Thanks Lynda

I think I'll start with chicken and duck hearts with some neck after
reading your advice. I was wondering where you get frog legs?

I'm trying to find a rabbit breeder in the Toronto area (meat - not pet
rabbits) but I'm having trouble and I just can't spend $18 on a little
thing at the grocer ;-)

All the best,
Kristen

Messages in this topic (4)
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7a. Re: WILLTHEY CHOKE ON CHICKEN BONES???
Posted by: "angela sims" angela182548@yahoo.com angela182548
Date: Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:44 am ((PDT))

Hi,
Thank you so much for your support. Ya know, I am sooo nervous about giving them chicken bones.... What if they choke? I heard a few people that did give them are now having problems and are worried. AAHH its a bit scary. Is there a part of the chicken that I should start with? Are there soft bones? Could I use a bone meal substitute? I do the egg shells in the grinder and add a tbsp to thier pm feeding. I have been following a diet by Dr. Charles Loops, It includes a veggie mush, raw meat, UDO's supplement pet essentials, olive oil, 1tbsp sea weed (kelp),Eggs which I cook...???? Should I cook them??? Thats the only cooked food they get are the eggs. I dont know if I am doing it right, I do know that it is better than kibble. :-)
I really appreciate your advice. Thanks so much, Angela


Dawn Crosier <dlcrosier@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
HI Angela -

I'm so sorry for your loss! That's really tough!

I firmly believe that you are doing the best thing for all your babies.

Fish is good! Meat is good! Bones are good! Kibble is bad! For right now ~
variety is bad. When switching as I understand it you need to get the
digestive system working correctly. Feeding raw food without bone can cause
loose stools, so feed your babies with bone in. The bone helps firm up the
stools. Cooked is bad since it changes the structure of the bone and creates
an indigestible bone.

Hang in there and know that you have a huge group sitting here ready to
help!

Dawn

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Messages in this topic (23)
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8. Swollen tum but no other visible signs it is bloat.
Posted by: "harrynala" michelle@synertex.co.uk harrynala
Date: Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:45 am ((PDT))

Hi, my boy has a swollen tum and is listless. Earlier this morning he
shook a bit too, but that has stopped now.

Having looked up signs of bloat, he's not exhibiting any signs of this
other than above.

He is still eating, he normally eats a range of RMBs, e.g. beef or
mutton ribs, half or quarter chickens, chicken livers, raw egg yolks,
canned fish occasionally that sort of thing.

Could this be a blockage somewhere do you think?

Could it be something as simple as gas? I noticed on another thread
Patricia Quinn said her dogs abdomen was fully distended and hard. and
she gently tried to help her release the air and she finally did. How
did you do that Patricia (or anyone) ?

I'm also wondering if it's a poisoning....I live in rural Bulgaria
where poisons are routinely put down for the stray dogs (I'm very
careful when we're out, but you never know, they're a strange bunch
here, something could also have easily be slung over our fence :( My
other 10month old is a bit off colour too but not so bad.

As of this morning, I've given them both canned fish with 6 teaspoons
of activated charcoal granules just in case it is poisoning and he
seems a bit better but still not himself.

The vets here are a bit rudimentary when it comes to pets so they are
only really any good in emergencies.

Would be really grateful for any ideas

Many thanks
Michelle (and Harry & Nala)

Messages in this topic (1)
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9a. BONES TO CLEAN TEETH
Posted by: "angela182548" angela182548@yahoo.com angela182548
Date: Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:54 am ((PDT))

Wow Giselle ~ Thanks for the info on the marrow bones. I have been
giving them one each week... common sense kinda told me that these
bones could chip the teeth... Although I couldnt believe the
difference it made in my German Shepherd/Chow's teeth. They were
stained black, even after a profesional cleaning... BUT 1 femur bone
did the trick...all except for between the teeth....

I saw the pics of the meat and bones.. but I dont know what they are.
Could you pls tell me the exact bones I should get ... for thier teeth
I would really appreciate it.

I have 3 babies .. all rescues
1. Charlie ~ german shepherd/chow mix... 3yrs old... 70lbs
2. Tallulah Belle ~ Pit bull/beagle mix... 2yrs old...50 lbs
3. Maycie Marie ~ cocoa red nose....7 mos .. about 35lbs & growing
Gosh I love them!!!!

BTW Is pork OK??
Thanks so much, Angela & kids

Messages in this topic (4)
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9b. Re: BONES TO CLEAN TEETH
Posted by: "Scott Baker" scottsbaker@gmail.com scottpsbaker
Date: Thu Oct 11, 2007 5:13 am ((PDT))

Its not so much the bones , but the action of ripping, tearing and
crunching. If you feed a large pork shoulder roast (and yes pork is ok) then
the pups will have to chew at the meat, rip and tear off chunks and crunch
through the bone. This is what really cleans teeth an d why its best to feed
large whole meals that require effort to eat.

On 10/11/07, angela182548 <angela182548@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Wow Giselle ~ Thanks for the info on the marrow bones. I have been
> giving them one each week... common sense kinda told me that these
> bones could chip the teeth... Although I couldnt believe the
> difference it made in my German Shepherd/Chow's teeth. They were
> stained black, even after a profesional cleaning... BUT 1 femur bone
> did the trick...all except for between the teeth....
>
> I saw the pics of the meat and bones.. but I dont know what they are.
> Could you pls tell me the exact bones I should get ... for thier teeth
> I would really appreciate it.
>
> I have 3 babies .. all rescues
> 1. Charlie ~ german shepherd/chow mix... 3yrs old... 70lbs
> 2. Tallulah Belle ~ Pit bull/beagle mix... 2yrs old...50 lbs
> 3. Maycie Marie ~ cocoa red nose....7 mos .. about 35lbs & growing
> Gosh I love them!!!!
>
> BTW Is pork OK??
> Thanks so much, Angela & kids
>
>
>

--
Scott

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
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9c. Re: BONES TO CLEAN TEETH
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Thu Oct 11, 2007 5:46 am ((PDT))

Hi, Angela!
Don't think bones, think about a huge chunk of MEAT, with
skin and connective tissue and a bone, sometimes, too.

A link to a meat chart, so you'll know what to look and what the cuts are
called. Whole chickens, rabbits, turkeys and goats are good, too

http://www.virtualweberbullet.com/meatcharts.html
ROFL, pigs (pork) is what was in all the pics in my last post. ^_^

TC
Giselle

On 10/11/07, angela182548 <angela182548@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Wow Giselle ~ Thanks for the info on the marrow bones. I have been
> giving them one each week... common sense kinda told me that these
> bones could chip the teeth...
>

<snip>

> I saw the pics of the meat and bones.. but I dont know what they are.
> Could you pls tell me the exact bones I should get ... for their teeth
> I would really appreciate it.
>
> I have 3 babies .. all rescues
> 1. Charlie ~ german shepherd/chow mix... 3yrs old... 70lbs
> 2. Tallulah Belle ~ Pit bull/beagle mix... 2yrs old...50 lbs
> 3. Maycie Marie ~ cocoa red nose....7 mos .. about 35lbs & growing
> Gosh I love them!!!!
>
> BTW Is pork OK??
> Thanks so much, Angela & kids
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
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9d. Re: BONES TO CLEAN TEETH
Posted by: "angela182548" angela182548@yahoo.com angela182548
Date: Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:07 am ((PDT))

-Thaks so much Giselle ~ You are awesome...great info...makes things
a little clearer. How do you feel about chicken bones and raw eggs?
what about veggie mush? I juice the veggies and fruit first and then
put everything in the food processor. ??? Thanks so much, Angela

-- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Giselle <megan.giselle@...> wrote:
>
> Hi, Angela!
> Don't think bones, think about a huge chunk of
MEAT, with
> skin and connective tissue and a bone, sometimes, too.
>
> A link to a meat chart, so you'll know what to look and what the
cuts are
> called. Whole chickens, rabbits, turkeys and goats are good, too
>
> http://www.virtualweberbullet.com/meatcharts.html
> ROFL, pigs (pork) is what was in all the pics in my last post. ^_^
>
> TC
> Giselle
>
>
>
> On 10/11/07, angela182548 <angela182548@...> wrote:
> >
> > Wow Giselle ~ Thanks for the info on the marrow bones. I have
been
> > giving them one each week... common sense kinda told me that
these
> > bones could chip the teeth...
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> <snip>
>
> > I saw the pics of the meat and bones.. but I dont know what they
are.
> > Could you pls tell me the exact bones I should get ... for their
teeth
> > I would really appreciate it.
> >
> > I have 3 babies .. all rescues
> > 1. Charlie ~ german shepherd/chow mix... 3yrs old... 70lbs
> > 2. Tallulah Belle ~ Pit bull/beagle mix... 2yrs old...50 lbs
> > 3. Maycie Marie ~ cocoa red nose....7 mos .. about 35lbs &
growing
> > Gosh I love them!!!!
> >
> > BTW Is pork OK??
> > Thanks so much, Angela & kids
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Messages in this topic (4)
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10a. Re: Bonemeal
Posted by: "angela182548" angela182548@yahoo.com angela182548
Date: Thu Oct 11, 2007 5:31 am ((PDT))

Hi Andrea ~ I was wondering which meaty bones you use? Thanks, Angela

-- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Andrea" <poketmouse45@...> wrote:
>
> There's no need to add bonemeal to a raw diet. Just offer edible
bones
> covered with meat and you'll be fine.
>
> Andrea
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "fsaforo2003" <fsaforo2003@>
> wrote:
>
> > I need to look into purchasing some, any good/known "human" grade
> > bonemeal you recommend?
>

Messages in this topic (7)
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11. I'm starting to become concerned about my little Iggy
Posted by: "carolejc2007" mooska2me@sbcglobal.net carolejc2007
Date: Thu Oct 11, 2007 5:59 am ((PDT))

I've been feeding raw 3 weeks now, currently into the 4th week, and
all dogs have taken to it exceptionally well, except for my little
15 lb Iggy. He was the only one to stick-up his nose at the thought
of eating raw in the first place and took a couple of feeding
attempts before he decided to eat. He ate well for the first couple
of weeks but now this past week he has hardly eaten anything at
all. In the past week he has probably only eaten a half of chicken
wing, a chicken back, maybe a dozen chicken hearts and a little bit
of chicken liver. He has turned up his nose at everything but
chicken hearts since Tuesday. He would have nothing to do with pork
ribs. I don't know what to do. I know the "experts" say dogs will
not starve themselves and will eventually eat but I'm beginning to
wonder. He is getting skinnier each day. He seems hungry and runs
to his food when I put it down but then won't eat anything (unless
there are chicken hearts; he will eat those). Should I stand my
ground with him? Maybe feed raw hamburger meat (although he wasn't
interested in beef when I offered him beef ribs once before). He is
otherwise healthy, runs, plays, drinks and eliminates all right.
Maybe he is just one of those dogs that doesn't have much of an
appetite? I need some help and encouragement because at this point
I am seriously considering switching him back to ki**le just to get
him to start eating again. But come to think of it, he never ate
much ki**le either...

Carole (Mom of 2 Greyhounds and 2 Italian Greys)

Messages in this topic (1)
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12. RAW EGGS ?
Posted by: "angela182548" angela182548@yahoo.com angela182548
Date: Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:51 am ((PDT))

How do you guys feel about raw eggs? I have been cooking the eggs ...
but I know people who drink shakes with raw egg.??? Is it ok to give
them? Thanks for all your help ... I really apprecite it... I am
getting ready to make the mixture.. but I will wait for a respose
first.
Thanks, Angela

Messages in this topic (1)
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13. Green tripe-not so green..questions
Posted by: "lar07911" lar07911@yahoo.com lar07911
Date: Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:53 am ((PDT))

Hi,
I went to a Hispanic grocery store the other day and found whole fish,
chicken feet, and even tripe. Only thing is...the tripe is white
because it has been cleaned? Can I still feed that to my dogs, or is
it a waste of time? Thanks,
Laura

Messages in this topic (1)
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