[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12142

There are 9 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: WHEN DO YOU CALL A DOG "TOO" THIN?
From: Giselle

2a. Re: Coat has strong, disagreeable odor
From: annartisan
2b. Re: Coat has strong, disagreeable odor
From: annartisan
2c. Re: Coat has strong, disagreeable odor
From: annartisan
2d. Re: Coat has strong, disagreeable odor
From: annartisan
2e. Re: Coat has strong, disagreeable odor
From: Andrea

3a. Re: Nutritional needs during pregnancy
From: borodeauxs

4. Sharp Raw Chicken Bones?
From: mandyrose1019

5a. Re: plaque
From: antarpremal

Messages
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1a. Re: WHEN DO YOU CALL A DOG "TOO" THIN?
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Wed Oct 10, 2007 1:28 am ((PDT))

Hi, Nancy!
Oooops!
'Fluffy' is a term I use, and have noticed others using too. To me,
its a southernism, it doesn't refer to coat type or length, it refers
to packin' on the pounds!

'fluffy' = chubby

I have a full coated breed, too. The way I keep track of how Bea's
doing in the 'fluffy' department is to run my hands down her ribs, if
I can feel them but they're covered with a light pad of flesh, and I
can feel the ribs through it, that's right to me. Also, I feel along
the backbone and hip bones, too. Again, I want to feel them, but not
have them really prominent. I run my hands underneath, too, from chest
to belly, there should be a nice, tight 'tuck up', no flab. I don't
know how Wheatens are, but Newfies will tend to develop a loose pad of
fat in the fore chest, too, if they're carrying too much weight. Labs
do, too.

If you are uncomfortable with how your dogs look, add a bit to their
diet. See how you like the way they feel in a week or two. When they
reach a good weight that you are satisfied with, taper off or keep
their meals at an amount that will maintain that weight.

If you are going to feed more, I'd suggest you add a bit of meatymeat
in the evening at first, until they are adapted to larger portions.
Some heart or a handful of gizzards, maybe. After that, you can always
increase the morning meal portion and eliminate the evening 'snack'.

TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> I keep reading on the posts to adjust meals according to how your dog
> looks. What do you do in the case of a "fluffy" dog like a wheaten
> terrier that always looks bigger with the hair then it actually is?
<snip>
Both
> dogs eat in the morning and while they come lie down on the floor in
> the kitchen while we eat dinner or come investigate when I go into the
> kitchen at night, they don't really beg. Their energy level is good,
> too. At the start of the new raw diet they weighed 30 lbs, which is
> already on the low end for a wheaten. Any thoughts?
>
> Nancy
>

Messages in this topic (5)
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2a. Re: Coat has strong, disagreeable odor
Posted by: "annartisan" annartisan@yahoo.com annartisan
Date: Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:42 am ((PDT))

I held off on replying to all of the responses to this question until
I had a chance to try out the various suggestions. He still has the
odor, though it's a tad less strong. In the hopes that answering all
the questions put to me might lead to a cure, here goes...

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Giselle" <megan.giselle@...> wrote:
>

> If you're not giving the pup any supps or no one is slipping
> him other foods as treats,

no supps and there is no way anyone else can be slipping him anything

it may just be his body's reaction to an
> all venison diet.
>
> Put him back on chicken for a week or two, give him a bath in a gentle
> oatmeal or pure castile shampoo, and see if that makes a difference in
> his body odor.

He's back on chicken, and I'll try the shampoo in a few days.

> In what form are you feeding the venison? What kind of parts? With
> bones? What about organs? Is he getting his 3-5% liver?

The venison we've been feeding is, unfortunately, bone and organ-free.
(Meat, muscle and fat.)

> Is there any change in his coat? Texture? Oily, greasy? Dandruffy,
> flaky skin?

His coat seems fine. It does seem less "puppyish" but I figured that
was to be expected as he grows. (He is now five months old)

Thanks for your reply, Giselle

AnnA

Messages in this topic (10)
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2b. Re: Coat has strong, disagreeable odor
Posted by: "annartisan" annartisan@yahoo.com annartisan
Date: Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:42 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, John and Jeni Blackmon
<jonjeni777@...> wrote:
>
> Mine eat venison and don't have any weird smell. Are you sure there
isn't any chicken in the backyard, somewhere that he has stashed away
somewhere, like a private place, and he's going to it, and rolling in
it? <

He has been burying his chicken quarters the last couple of weeks.
But I haven't seen him "rolling" in it (though there are a couple of
spots in our yard where he could do it unnoticed.)

>I've heard of animals smelling like the food they eat, and my dane
sometimes does, but he has really rolly skin under his lips; we have
to keep it clean after feedings. So he smells like whatever we are
feeding him at the time.<

Our pup is a Boxer, so he has pretty "rolly" skin around his face (and
neck), too. But the objectionable smell also comes from the middle of
his back.

> But if you are feeding venison, he shouldn't smell like chicken:)

Thank you for noticing that BIZARRE aspect of this problem!

AnnA

Messages in this topic (10)
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2c. Re: Coat has strong, disagreeable odor
Posted by: "annartisan" annartisan@yahoo.com annartisan
Date: Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:42 am ((PDT))

I'd suggest a vet visit; changes in metabolic action aren't
> necessarily bad but vets go to school for a long time to learn to
distinguish
> between health and illness.

Honestly, I've been wanting to see a vet about this smell. But I
can't go to my "old" vet because he pressured me to vaccinate him when
he was very ill. I need a new vet, but my options in this town are
somewhat limited. And I suspect that if I tell a "regular vet" that
my dog is reeking of raw chicken s/he will try to use that as a reason
to quit raw feeding.

AnnA

Messages in this topic (10)
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2d. Re: Coat has strong, disagreeable odor
Posted by: "annartisan" annartisan@yahoo.com annartisan
Date: Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:42 am ((PDT))

> I'm also thinking he has found something to roll in. Check him close
> and see if the smell is coming from either the side of his face, his
> neck or his shoulers. If so, he's definately rolling. :) :) :)
>

Okay, Bill - I checked him over and the smell emanates from EVERY part
of him, but it IS much stronger around his face and shoulders. I've
moved his meals indoors on a tablecloth so that I can supervise more
closely. I sure hope this solves the problem, because I miss the
physical snuffalupagus stuff that became de rigueur when we quit
kibble and he lost that yucky, "typical", doggie odor.

AnnA

Messages in this topic (10)
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2e. Re: Coat has strong, disagreeable odor
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Wed Oct 10, 2007 7:03 am ((PDT))

Here's my experience, I didn't answer before because it could be
completely coincidental, but who knows, right? My newf pup had
pretty dry skin when he started shedding his puppy coat and his new
coat came in a lot denser than I had expected. When I was brushing
him I noticed a funky dog smell in his coat, but I figured he rolled
in something smelly. About a month after the funky smell appeared I
started giving him fish oil for his dry skin (about 6 capsules a day
for a 60lb puppy). After a week his skin was much better and the
funky smell is gone. Don't know if it was the fish oil or not, but
you could try and see if it helps.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "annartisan" <annartisan@...>
wrote:

> his coat developed a strong odor. My daughter calls it a "fishy"
> smell, but my husband and I both think it smells like raw chicken.
> It's really strong... you can smell it on him when you're standing
> over him and he's lying on the floor.

Messages in this topic (10)
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3a. Re: Nutritional needs during pregnancy
Posted by: "borodeauxs" Borodeauxs@googlemail.com borodeauxs
Date: Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:46 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "diannem200400"
<diannem200400@...> wrote:
>
> I have just had a bitch bred and although we do not have
confirmation
> of pregnancy yet, I want to be sure that she is getting everything
she
> needs from the start. Should I be doing anything more or less
than the
> usual formula? I know not to increase the calcium, but is there
> anything else I should be aware of? She is getting additional
fish oil
> to boost her immune system (12000 mg's daily; she is 130 lbs). Is
this
> safe?
>
> You will not be surprised that the vet at the veterinary teaching
> hospital where the insemination was performed asked about her
diet. He
> didn't say anything about raw, but the aftercare instructions
noted
> that she should be put on a high grade commercial diet so that she
gets
> the full array of nutrients she needs!
>
> Thanks for any advice.
>
> Dianne M.
>

Hi Dianne,..We too have a bitch we have bred and she is looking very
pregnant,..as for the commercial,..I would stick with your raw diet
as she will recieve all the nutrients she needs,..this is our 3rd
time we have mated our bitch and was going to be the last try after
2 previous misses,..We can not say the raw changed the
results ,..but I believe so,..they is just too many preservatives
and other nasty stuff in commercial dog food,..
I would continue as normal and increase the amount within the last
few weeks,..our bitch will be 7 weeks this friday and has not been
off her food at all,
compared to previous matings when on commercial,..maybe this is the
bitch asking for other foods,..the bitch knows what is best,..And my
feelings are that she is not off her food as she knows the diet is
right,..hope this has helped a little and best of luck with the pups
Stephen www.Borodeauxs.com

Messages in this topic (2)
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4. Sharp Raw Chicken Bones?
Posted by: "mandyrose1019" tarotwoman@comcast.net mandyrose1019
Date: Wed Oct 10, 2007 7:02 am ((PDT))

Hi, everyone. I've been lurking here for a couple of months, and this
week I was very excited to start my 3-year-old greyhound, Travis, on
his first raw chicken quarters. He took to it like a natural--I loved
how he kept looking at me like, "Is this real?"

I know, of course, not to feed any bones that are cooked, because they
can splinter. My question is about raw chicken bones that are sharp. I
know sometimes when I've been cutting up a whole chicken for my family,
there are bones that seem very sharp to the point of being able to cut
my hand, but I figured that was because they were being cut with a
knife/scissors. But today when Travis was finished with his chicken
quarter, there was a splinter of bone left on the mat that was
extremely sharp. Could this type of bone splinter actually cause him
harm? Is there something I need to know or do before giving him another
piece of raw chicken? (He chews everything pretty well before it goes
down.)

Thanks!

Amanda Horton

Messages in this topic (1)
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5a. Re: plaque
Posted by: "antarpremal" antarpremal@yahoo.com antarpremal
Date: Wed Oct 10, 2007 7:02 am ((PDT))

Hi Chris.
Yeah, her primary diet is whole chikens. I used to cut them into quartets. Lately I've been
giving them whole and she tends to eat half in a day. I have fed her slabs of pork ribs
often as well. other additions have been turkey legs, (lamb shanks her favorite) and
occassionally ground beef with egg and shell, the egg and shell she gets acouple times a
week. Afew times fish.
Beef and chicken liver are parts of the regular diet. I keep it frozen and give it as treats.

otherwise she's had veal kidney and heart a few times and elk once which she did not like,

That's about it? Suggesstions?

> > She is now 7 months old and I just had her spayed a few days ago. All
> went well however
> > when the doc checked her teeth he said that she has a lot of plaque
> for a gal her age and I
> > should start to brush her teeth every day.
> *****
> Yes, this would be distresssing. Even when my dogs were fed kibble at
> seven months their teeth were mighty white.
>
> What are you feeding her? Has she gotten ample opportunity to work on
> meaty body parts? Any health issues that might be connected,
> medications?
> Chris O
>

Messages in this topic (7)
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