Feed Pets Raw Food: [rawfeeding] Digest Number 12143

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. ADMIN/Re: FOOD AGGRESSION ON RAW??
From: costrowski75

2a. Re: Sharp Raw Chicken Bones?
From: carnesbill
2b. Re: Sharp Raw Chicken Bones?
From: Andrea
2c. Re: Sharp Raw Chicken Bones?
From: whitezinfendel23
2d. Re: Sharp Raw Chicken Bones?
From: cleavlet
2e. Sharp Raw Chicken Bones?
From: Diane Heinicke
2f. Sharp Raw Chicken Bones?
From: mandyrose1019

3. Update on pit bull losing hair
From: steph.sorensen

4a. Wretching Dog
From: patrice_quinn
4b. Re: Wretching Dog
From: Nataly A
4c. Re: Wretching Dog
From: patrice_quinn
4d. Re: Wretching Dog
From: Nataly A
4e. Re: Wretching Dog
From: Patrice Quinn
4f. Re: Wretching Dog
From: Sandee Lee
4g. Re: Wretching Dog
From: Giselle
4h. Re: Wretching Dog
From: patrice_quinn

5a. Re: plaque
From: antarpremal

6a. Re: Liquid poo
From: Shannon Hully

7. Off topic post from a moderator-Help Needed
From: atyler1462@aol.com

8a. Change of appetite? Just Being Picky or Red Flag?
From: mgitaville
8b. Re: Change of appetite? Just Being Picky or Red Flag?
From: Giselle
8c. Re: Change of appetite? Just Being Picky or Red Flag?
From: mgitaville

9a. switching kitten to raw
From: Kristen
9b. Re: switching kitten to raw
From: Giselle

10a. Bonemeal
From: fsaforo2003

Messages
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1a. ADMIN/Re: FOOD AGGRESSION ON RAW??
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Oct 10, 2007 7:11 am ((PDT))

Aggression and other behavior issues are not appropriate subjects for
this list. Please take this topic to RawChat. Subsequent posts to
rawfeeding will be deleted.
Chris O
Mod Team

Messages in this topic (11)
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2a. Re: Sharp Raw Chicken Bones?
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Wed Oct 10, 2007 7:33 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "mandyrose1019" <tarotwoman@...>
wrote:
>
> My question is about raw chicken bones that are sharp. I
> know sometimes when I've been cutting up a whole chicken for
> my family,
> there are bones that seem very sharp to the point of being able
> to cut
> my hand, but I figured that was because they were being cut with a
> knife/scissors.

I guess if you set your mind to it, you could actually cut a piece
of bone that was sharp enough to cut your hand but the pieces broken
in the dogs mouth are not nearly as sharp as they appear.

Have you actually tried to cut your hand with a bone from your dog's
mouth? You MIGHT be able to if you use enough pressure but in real
life it's just not a problem.

I have been feeding chicken parts every day for 5 years to 2 to 3
dogs each day without one single problem. There are 10,000 other
people on this list just like me with no problems feeding chicken
parts.

None of us would knowingly feed our dogs something that had a good
chance of hurting them.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (7)
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2b. Re: Sharp Raw Chicken Bones?
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:26 am ((PDT))

Yes, bones do break into scary looking pieces, but I assure you the
dog's digestive system is perfectly capable of handling them. Lone
bones might irritate the throat going down, but I think the reason we
find "sharp looking" bone bits on the floor is because the dog looks at
it and says "no thanks."

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "mandyrose1019" <tarotwoman@...>
wrote:

> when Travis was finished with his chicken quarter, there was a
> splinter of bone left on the mat that was extremely sharp. Could
> this type of bone splinter actually cause him harm?

Messages in this topic (7)
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2c. Re: Sharp Raw Chicken Bones?
Posted by: "whitezinfendel23" whitezinfendel23@yahoo.com whitezinfendel23
Date: Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:27 am ((PDT))

Moderator's note: Please trim your posts.

*****************************************

Hi Amanda - This is my concern too. I am just starting out and I am going to start out with fresh meat NEVER FROZEN. I am sure after a while I will feel more comfortable as he heals and give him defrosted meat from the freezer. ....Holly

mandyrose1019 <tarotwoman@comcast.net> wrote: Hi, everyone. I've been lurking here for a couple of months, and this
week I was very excited to start my 3-year-old greyhound, Travis, on
his first raw chicken quarters. He took to it like a natural--I loved
how he kept looking at me like, "Is this real?"

I know, of course, not to feed any bones that are cooked, because they
can splinter. My question is about raw chicken bones that are sharp. I
know sometimes when I've been cutting up a whole chicken for my family,
there are bones that seem very sharp to the point of being able to cut
my hand, but I figured that was because they were being cut with a
knife/scissors. But today when Travis was finished with his chicken
quarter, there was a splinter of bone left on the mat that was
extremely sharp. Could this type of bone splinter actually cause him
harm? Is there something I need to know or do before giving him another
piece of raw chicken? (He chews everything pretty well before it goes
down.)

Thanks!

Amanda Horton

---------------------------------
Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows.
Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (7)
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2d. Re: Sharp Raw Chicken Bones?
Posted by: "cleavlet" cleavlet@yahoo.com cleavlet
Date: Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:28 am ((PDT))

Amanda,

I've noticed the same long leg bone splinters, and it does tend to
give one pause! My 15 week old Aussie (16.5 lbs. now) has been eating
chicken leg quarters regularly for about 4-5 weeks. He'll often leave
a splinter, just like you described, but come back for it awhile
later (greedy little devil :-). I watched very closely (and
anxiously) the first couple/few times and was relieved to see him
crunch it up somewhat before downing it.

I think our animals go through a learning curve, and I think we have
to leave room for that to happen. I ask myself: "Why did he leave
that splinter in the first place"? Possible answer: More trouble than
it was worth, i.e. not much of a prize for something that he might
have sensed could be problematic... (Admittedly presumptuous of me).

Suggestion: Trust the dog, but stand guard initially. Or, just pick
up any leftovers without delay.

Cleavon

Messages in this topic (7)
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2e. Sharp Raw Chicken Bones?
Posted by: "Diane Heinicke" dheinicke@sbcglobal.net dalethah
Date: Wed Oct 10, 2007 9:27 am ((PDT))

I have a greyhound, too. He's been doing great on his raw fed diet. The easiest meal for me to feed him is when I take a whole chicken, cut it in half right down the middle, and hand it to him. That's about two pounds - he's about 63 lbs. There are some bones in there that seem sharp, but he's not had a problem. I usually give him a little liver and/or kidney afterwards for dessert.
He gets a whole fish every week or so, and they have sharp fins, etc. I hand him those, too, and he has been just fine.
Diane

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (7)
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2f. Sharp Raw Chicken Bones?
Posted by: "mandyrose1019" tarotwoman@comcast.net mandyrose1019
Date: Wed Oct 10, 2007 2:34 pm ((PDT))

Thank you all so much for your responses--I feel so much better now!
I'm so glad I found this list--it's such a great resource for a newbie
like me. I'm looking forward to many long years of healthy living for
Travis, and fun for me--I really enjoy watching him eat now!

Amanda Horton

Messages in this topic (7)
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3. Update on pit bull losing hair
Posted by: "steph.sorensen" steph.sorensen@yahoo.com steph.sorensen
Date: Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:28 am ((PDT))

Hi all,

I just wanted to update all of you on Scarlet's condition. She
seems to have some outdoor skin allergy of some sort on her belly
that flares up more at night. I think the onset of cooler weather
will help with that.

Regarding her hair loss, it is growing back in!! I fed them whole
chickens (chicken fryers from the grocery store) for a couple more
weeks, and recently started integrating pork shoulder again (because
they REALLY like it!). The small patches where her hair was thin
are growing back in and she is looking nice!

They still take their fish oil caps every day (even though I have to
force feed Lucy hers), and it is showing.

Thanks for all the advice I got a couple of weeks ago when this
problem started. Scarlet is still shedding some, so I don't think
the coat change is complete yet. Since I heard it takes several
months with some dogs, I'll just let time do its work on her.

Thanks again!

-Steph
Scarlet, Lucy and Minkey (the kitty)

Messages in this topic (1)
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4a. Wretching Dog
Posted by: "patrice_quinn" patrice@patricequinn.com patrice_quinn
Date: Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:29 am ((PDT))

I'm extremely worried and hope someone can help me. Six days ago, one
of my dogs was eating a raw chicken drumstick when she started
wretching and bringing up only white foam. Her abdomen was fully
distended and hard. I gently tried to help her release the air and
she finally did but only after almost 10 minutes of wretching up only
white foam. No food came up. She wouldn't eat for two days after.
Now she is ravenously hungry but can't keep down more than 1/2
teaspoon of baby food turkey given every twenty minutes and even that
sets off this wretching reflex for a short spurt then stops. She
drinks water and pees and she has pooped but I'm worried that she
isn't getting enough in. She's losing weight (she's only ten pounds
to start with). Will this resolve itself and should I give it time?
If I take her to the vet, he's going to scold me for rawfeeding her
and make her get "caught up" on vaccinations. I'm really scared here.
Please, can anyone help me? Thank you, Patrice Quinn

Messages in this topic (8)
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4b. Re: Wretching Dog
Posted by: "Nataly A" rap_squad@yahoo.com rap_squad
Date: Wed Oct 10, 2007 9:26 am ((PDT))

hey patrice,

what you're describing can very well be gastric dilation (canine bloat) which can often be deadly. i don't wanna scare you or anything, but this could be serious.
often what the vet does is indeed take out all the air from the stomach, but sometimes it's not enough cause the bowls or stomach is twisted.

i understand your concern about the vets reaction, but rest assure that these things happen to commercial food pets ALOT. so just tell him politely to treat the dog, and leave her nutrition out of it.
Nat.

----- Original Message ----
From: patrice_quinn <patrice@patricequinn.com>
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 5:16:08 PM
Subject: [rawfeeding] Wretching Dog

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Messages in this topic (8)
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4c. Re: Wretching Dog
Posted by: "patrice_quinn" patrice@patricequinn.com patrice_quinn
Date: Wed Oct 10, 2007 10:08 am ((PDT))

Thank you, Nat. I don't think she's twisted as she is peeing and
pooping. She is not expressing pain. But she's had very little to eat
in five days now and this morning she started walking a little oddly.
She's no longer bloated. How long do you think I can keep nursing her
with these small amounts in hopes that her esophagus or stomach will
heal? Is it possible that a bone from the chicken could be lodged and
if it were, wouldn't it have digested by now? Patrice

Messages in this topic (8)
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4d. Re: Wretching Dog
Posted by: "Nataly A" rap_squad@yahoo.com rap_squad
Date: Wed Oct 10, 2007 10:28 am ((PDT))

hey patrice,

what worries me about what you say is the fact that she can't contain food (and is losing weight). the trauma to the body is great, but it should have passed by now, atleast to the amount that the dog would eat significantly more than 2 spoons of turkey mash.
i am not one to be scared by a fasting pet nor am i a big fan of vets, however, i do think the dog needs a checkup. better safe than sorry.

Nat.

----- Original Message ----
From: patrice_quinn <patrice@patricequinn.com>
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 6:53:38 PM
Subject: [rawfeeding] Re: Wretching Dog

____________________________________________________________________________________
Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.

http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/

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Messages in this topic (8)
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4e. Re: Wretching Dog
Posted by: "Patrice Quinn" patrice@patricequinn.com patrice_quinn
Date: Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:16 am ((PDT))

Thank you, Nataly. I just called the vet (reluctantly) and have an appt for
next Tuesday unless she significantly worsens. I am still very interested in
anyone's input on this forum as I continue to nurse her through this,
Patrice

-------Original Message-------

From: Nataly A
Date: 10/10/2007 10:28:18 AM
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [rawfeeding] Re: Wretching Dog

hey patrice,

what worries me about what you say is the fact that she can't contain food
(and is losing weight). the trauma to the body is great, but it should have
passed by now, atleast to the amount that the dog would eat significantly
more than 2 spoons of turkey mash.
i am not one to be scared by a fasting pet nor am i a big fan of vets,
however, i do think the dog needs a checkup. better safe than sorry.

Nat.

----- Original Message ----
From: patrice_quinn <patrice@patricequinn.com>
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 6:53:38 PM
Subject: [rawfeeding] Re: Wretching Dog

__________________________________________________________
Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.

http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/

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Messages in this topic (8)
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4f. Re: Wretching Dog
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:28 am ((PDT))

I would take her to the vet. Six days is far too long for this to go on. I
wouldn't even tell them what you feed...just give the symptoms and say you
wonder if there is something caught in her throat or something! Make them
look for a cause rather than blaming diet.

Don't worry about the vaccs...if they bring it up, just say no thank you.
Not today. If they would read the vaccine insert it states they are only to
be given to healthy dogs!

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "patrice_quinn" <patrice@patricequinn.com>

Messages in this topic (8)
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4g. Re: Wretching Dog
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Wed Oct 10, 2007 1:02 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Patrice!
I vote for the vet check, too, with all the stated
precautions.

If she were my pup, I'd offer her plenty of low sodium chicken or beef
broth. I'd make a paste with a couple ounces of broth and some
Slippery Elm Bark Powder (2 tsp.), then mix it with 1-2 cans of broth,
and offer it to her frequently.

"SEBP - Slippery Elm Bark Powder. This is a good innocuous herb that
soothes the stomach and digestive system. If you feel you need to
intervene when your dog has loose poops or constipation, this is the
way to go. SEBP is
âœused to treat diarrhea, constipation, enteritis, colitis &
irritations of the stomach. Used to soothe, protect & lubricate mucous
membranes. Also, used to relieve the discomforts of kennel cough &
other types of bronchitis.â
http://fiascofarm.com/herbs/supplements.htm
You can also get SEBP at health food stors.
I use 1 tsp of SEBP to one ounce of ground or chopped chicken. Mix
together and shape enough meatballs for several days doses, and freeze
them. They thaw quickly. For small dogs, divide in Â½ ounce meatballs,
for large to giant dogs, 1 ounce meatballs. Feed 1 with each meal. Or,
fast for a day, (not for pups, fast for just a meal or two) offer
plenty of water. Feed SEBP meatballs 3-4 times throughout the day.
Feed smaller, more frequent meals for several days after, gradually
increasing the meals and decreasing the SEBP meatballs. You will often
see an increase in mucousy poops with SEBP, this is part of the way it
soothes the digestive system, and the dogâ™s body will do the same
sometimes even without SEBP."

How is she acting?
Can you check her mouth, soft palate and the back of her tongue?
If there is no underlying disease or illness causing this problem, and
there's nothing 'stuck' causing the vomiting, then the SEBP can help
soothe her digestive system.

TC and let us know how she does!
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> I would take her to the vet. Six days is far too long for this to
go on. I
> wouldn't even tell them what you feed...just give the symptoms and
say you
> wonder if there is something caught in her throat or something!
Make them
> look for a cause rather than blaming diet.
>
> Don't worry about the vaccs...if they bring it up, just say no thank
you.
> Not today. If they would read the vaccine insert it states they are
only to
> be given to healthy dogs!
>
> Sandee & the Dane Gang
>
I'm extremely worried and hope someone can help me. Six days ago, one
of my dogs was eating a raw chicken drumstick when she started
wretching and bringing up only white foam.
<snip>
No food came up. She wouldn't eat for two days after.
Now she is ravenously hungry but can't keep down more than 1/2
teaspoon of baby food turkey given every twenty minutes and even that
sets off this wretching reflex for a short spurt then stops. She
drinks water and pees and she has pooped but I'm worried that she
isn't getting enough in. She's losing weight (she's only ten pounds
to start with). Will this resolve itself and should I give it time?
If I take her to the vet, he's going to scold me for rawfeeding her
and make her get "caught up" on vaccinations. I'm really scared here.
Please, can anyone help me?
Thank you, Patrice Quinn

Messages in this topic (8)
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4h. Re: Wretching Dog
Posted by: "patrice_quinn" patrice@patricequinn.com patrice_quinn
Date: Wed Oct 10, 2007 2:34 pm ((PDT))

Thank you, Sandee! I see what you're saying and will take that
approach with the vet. Meanwhile, she vacillates--yesterday seemed
better, today not so good until a few minutes ago when she barked for
the first time since this happened so I'm not as concerned now about a
stuck bone; do you suppose she just badly inflamed her esophagus?
Thank you, Sandee, for being supportive! Patrice

Messages in this topic (8)
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5a. Re: plaque
Posted by: "antarpremal" antarpremal@yahoo.com antarpremal
Date: Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:31 am ((PDT))

Hi Chris. Jennifer and sasha again.

I realized I didn't answer all you questions.

No health issues, and she is a golden chowmix and whatever else....

She does have one eye that continues to get goopy after 2 rounds of pink eye meds,
although she's been tested for dry eyes etc.

Thanks Chris.
Jen

Messages in this topic (8)
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6a. Re: Liquid poo
Posted by: "Shannon Hully" summerwolf@theherbalhotline.com bluehankw
Date: Wed Oct 10, 2007 9:28 am ((PDT))

Well, since I know that dogs evolved to eat "high" food I just kept
feeding through the stuff in the fridge, at least until he had a few
more poos to let me see if I figured it was a problem with the food.

He didn't go for 24 hours (no biggie for him) and this morning it was
still very soft but was formed so I'm guessing that he's either
adjusting (he threw up a couple of times after eating this stuff,
but hoovers it back up again and is fine after that, so I'm guessing
it's just another adjustment period for him) or it wasn't the food.
If it *is* the worms, then YAY!! LOL Better out than in. ;-)

Shannon H.

> I forgot to mention that he had hookworms and I've been giving
him
> DE for that.

> Um, yeah.
> I think that mighta done it.
> While it's not impossible that stinky food would set him off, it's
not
> likely.

Messages in this topic (5)
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7. Off topic post from a moderator-Help Needed
Posted by: "atyler1462@aol.com" atyler1462@aol.com atyler121462
Date: Wed Oct 10, 2007 10:28 am ((PDT))

Last Wednesday, October 3rd a fellow dog person and dear friend, David
Moore, had his 200 year old farm house burn to the ground. Nine dogs died in
the fire. There was nothing David could do. He also lost all of his
possessions.

David has worked tirelessly for nearly 20 years to preserve a rare breed of
sighthound, the Azawakh. This breed is almost extinct with probably only
about 2000 in the world and fewer than 200 in the USA.

He desperately needs help to recover from this tragedy. His home was
insured , but the insurance will just cover the mortgage.

Any financial help is appreciated. Money can be pay paled to his sister
at _blhulsman@alltel.net_ (mailto:blhulsman@alltel.net)

Thanks,

Alison
Moderation Team

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (1)
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8a. Change of appetite? Just Being Picky or Red Flag?
Posted by: "mgitaville" mgitaville@hotmail.com mgitaville
Date: Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:51 am ((PDT))

Hello all.... for whatever reason there is just something bugging me
about my bullmastiff's change in appetite recently. I could easily
say it is the warm weather that returned (high 80s) after a brief
cooler week. I could say it is "just because" and be glad since he
needs to slim down a couple of pounds. I could say it is b/c he
turned 3 in June and his metabolism has slowed..... I think you get
where I am going with this.

The thing is something about it bugs me and I believe it is b/c he
has a small purplish spot on his rear hind leg that popped up last
friday that is peculiar. Not a hotspot though that was my first
thought when it was clotted fur. Not really a cyst b/c not raised up
much though does have some fluid to it. My dog has not had skin
issues since going raw nearly 2 years ago so this stuck me as
peculiar.

Anyways, this post is not about his spot on his leg except to say
maybe I am letting this raise a flag about his diet I otherwise would
not....wondering if they are connected and a sign of something else.

My gut tells me this is him being picky lately. He eats, but not
much and walks away from stuff quickly. I put down a rib slab the
other night after his whole chicken was finally finished 3 or 4 days
later from when we started (was only 4.5 lbs) and he was far more
enthusiastic about his favorite meal of rib slabs, but as you know
not much meat there so still only about 1/2 his normal size meal was
eaten.

Sorry for the ramble.... the question in all this is I guess when do
some of you move beyond the "go-to" reasons or stop assuming he is
just being picky? He acts compeltely normal otherwise by the way,
but there is a clear decline in his interest of food lately.
Possible he is just bored with stuff recently?

Thanks for any input.
Marguerita

Messages in this topic (3)
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8b. Re: Change of appetite? Just Being Picky or Red Flag?
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Wed Oct 10, 2007 1:24 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Marguerita!
No clue about the reduced appetite aspects of this,
except to say that it could be related to all the reasons you've
mentioned and that the giant breeds do reach full physical maturity at
about 3 yo. Much later than even large breeds do.

The purplish spot could be a histiocytoma, a benign tumor;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histiocytoma_(dog)
There's a couple pics in the link for comparison.

Maybe he's not bored with his food, but maybe just complacent, and has
learned to self-regulate, since he knows its not a scarce commodity?

^_^

Since the weather is getting cooler, perhaps you could get him
involved in some fun activities to relieve boredom, burn some calories
and pique his appetite?

TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> Hello all.... for whatever reason there is just something bugging me
> about my Bull Mastiff's change in appetite recently. I could easily
> say it is the warm weather that returned (high 80s) after a brief
> cooler week. I could say it is "just because" and be glad since he
> needs to slim down a couple of pounds. I could say it is b/c he
> turned 3 in June and his metabolism has slowed..... I think you get
> where I am going with this.
>
> The thing is something about it bugs me and I believe it is b/c he
> has a small purplish spot on his rear hind leg that popped up last
> Friday that is peculiar. Not a hot spot though that was my first
> thought when it was clotted fur. Not really a cyst b/c not raised up
> much though does have some fluid to it. My dog has not had skin
> issues since going raw nearly 2 years ago so this stuck me as
> peculiar.
>
> Anyways, this post is not about his spot on his leg except to say
> maybe I am letting this raise a flag about his diet I otherwise would
> not....wondering if they are connected and a sign of something else.
<snip>
He acts completely normal otherwise by the way,
> but there is a clear decline in his interest of food lately.
> Possible he is just bored with stuff recently?
>
> Thanks for any input.
> Marguerita

Messages in this topic (3)
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8c. Re: Change of appetite? Just Being Picky or Red Flag?
Posted by: "mgitaville" mgitaville@hotmail.com mgitaville
Date: Wed Oct 10, 2007 2:34 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Giselle" <megan.giselle@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi, Marguerita!
> No clue about the reduced appetite aspects of this,
> except to say that it could be related to all the reasons you've
> mentioned and that the giant breeds do reach full physical maturity
at
> about 3 yo. Much later than even large breeds do.

***** Generally, this would be the case, but this bullmastiff is very
small for size - growth plates closed around 18 months at the hip.
He only weighs in at 100lbs. and is about 2" shorter to shoulder than
normal. Only state this to say that he matured earlier than most as
a result.
>
> The purplish spot could be a histiocytoma, a benign tumor;
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histiocytoma_(dog)
> There's a couple pics in the link for comparison.
>
******Thanks for the suggestion as it is quite curious....he had one
of these as a puppy, but this isn't the same. It isn't raised at all
like the tumors or cysts normally would be. Spider bite that caused
irritation but no swelling is the best I can come up with now but
area is about the size of a quarter.

> Maybe he's not bored with his food, but maybe just complacent, and
has
> learned to self-regulate, since he knows its not a scarce
commodity?
>
> ^_^
>

*****This is very likely - had him since a pup and rawfed for nearly
2 years of his 3 with me so he doesn't have the same "respect" for
food the rescues did.

> Since the weather is getting cooler, perhaps you could get him
> involved in some fun activities to relieve boredom, burn some
calories
> and pique his appetite?
>
> TC
> Giselle
> with Bea in New Jersey
>

*****He gets usually 30 minutes of activity in evenings with other
dogs/tennis ball chasing. But perhaps it is time to get longer walks
going again if we can get out of the high 80s. Good thought.

Thanks
Marguerita

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

9a. switching kitten to raw
Posted by: "Kristen" kristengilkinsonrmt@rogers.com kgilkinson
Date: Wed Oct 10, 2007 2:33 pm ((PDT))

Hi there,

I'm bringing home a kitten in a couple of weeks. The mom is feral and
had the kittens outside the home of a family that leaves food out for
those feral cats. Mom has now left the kittens behind and I'm
bringing one of them home. The family is feeding a commercial food
and I'll be switching to raw immediately.
My question is this: how do kittens compare to puppies? I have tons
of kitten appropriate food in my freezer, but I want to know what is
best to start. I'd like to use just one type of meat until the
transition is tolerated and then introduce new items. What is best to
start? Chicken or sardines or something else?
Is the ratio for the kitten the same (10-10-80)?
Anything special I need to know?

...and just as a side question: Spleen is an organ right? I usually
feed liver, but I came across a deal I couldn't refuse and bought
spleen yesterday.

I can't wait to see how meal time works out with a dobie pup and
kitten dining together!

Thanks =D
Kristen

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________

9b. Re: switching kitten to raw
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:17 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Kristen!
I'd recommend that you check out these sites, they're
great resources for feeding cats raw;
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawcat/

http://rawfedcats.org/
rawfedcats.org

Cats are somewhat different than dogs. Carnivorous, but different

The 80%-10%-10% whole prey model works for a cat, too. Advice is that
a cat should be offered many different proteins right away, lest they
get imprinted and fixated on just one, and refuse anything else. Thats
one of the things that makes cats hard to switch to raw. Kittens are
easier to switch, I understand.

You may have some issues with a feral kitten. Cats are much less
domesticated than dogs. There is even some research that doubts
they're domesticated at all, but developed in a symbiosis with humans.
Cats hunted small rodents, therefor they were tolerated in human
communities for this pest control ability.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat
http://www.feralcat.com/taming.html
http://www.clickertraining.com/node/538

Unfortunately, you shouldn't assume that the kitten and pup will get
along right away. A feral kitten will probably not like an unfamiliar
pup anymore than he'll like an unfamiliar human. And, pups/dogs can
not recognize a kitten's/cat's body language cues to 'back off'. and
then, there's the excitement of the chase that a pup can get caught up in.
'Tricia McConnell, author of "The Other End of the Leash" and "For the
Love of a Dog" is an accredited ethologist and animal behaviorist
specializing in aggression in dogs. She also has a very well known
radio show on Wisconsin public radio, "Calling All Pets" on Saturdays.
She answers live calls and emails, and a lot of her callers from all
over the country have Qs about cat problem behavior.
You can listen to her archived shows on the website, and also email or
call her on the show. Check it out.
http://www.wpr.org/pets/

Spleen is indeed an organ, a very blood rich one;
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/spleen

HTHs
Giselle

> Hi there,
>
> I'm bringing home a kitten in a couple of weeks. The mom is feral and
> had the kittens outside the home of a family that leaves food out for
> those feral cats.
<snip>
> ...and just as a side question: Spleen is an organ right? I usually
> feed liver, but I came across a deal I couldn't refuse and bought
> spleen yesterday.
>
> I can't wait to see how meal time works out with a dobie pup and
> kitten dining together!
>
> Thanks =D
> Kristen

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

10a. Bonemeal
Posted by: "fsaforo2003" fsaforo2003@yahoo.com fsaforo2003
Date: Wed Oct 10, 2007 2:34 pm ((PDT))

Hey folks,

I need to look into purchasing some, any good/known "human" grade
bonemeal you recommend?

Thanks

Flo

Messages in this topic (5)
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________________________________________________________________________

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Feed Pets Raw Food

Wednesday, October 10, 2007

[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12143

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