[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12159

There are 19 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: poop
From: Sandee Lee
1b. Re: poop
From: angela182548
1c. Re: poop
From: Sandee Lee
1d. Re: poop
From: angela182548
1e. Re: poop
From: katkellm

2a. Re: Newbie, dog losing weight, how much do I feed?
From: Sandee Lee
2b. Re: Newbie, dog losing weight, how much do I feed?
From: Giselle

3a. Re: pet sitter and raw food - how to prepare
From: Monica

4a. Re: How do I find the archives?
From: angela sims

5. Lamb for raw feeders?
From: Jenna Baxter

6a. Info needed for someone interested in switching
From: Trish Chapman
6b. Re: Info needed for someone interested in switching
From: Giselle

7. What do I feed my dane pup that's recovering from Parvo?
From: dogsofnature

8a. Re: Wretching Dog
From: johkemp

9a. Re: cooked diets
From: johkemp

10a. Re: butchering
From: Tracey WAGC

11a. Re: My dog has a chicken allergy.
From: johkemp

12. Raw Food
From: Jennifer

13a. Re: Whole Pork Shoulder
From: thebestformyboys

Messages
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1a. Re: poop
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sat Oct 13, 2007 4:12 pm ((PDT))

Dry stools are the result of bony meals....meaty meals will produce softer
stools. You could add a bit more meat, but don't overdo it! :)

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "angela182548" <angela182548@yahoo.com>

Quick question about poo.... Baby is a bit constipated w/ dry
stoole. Is this normal? Is this also part of thier body detoxing? What
can I do to help her? Thanks, Angela

Messages in this topic (15)
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1b. Re: poop
Posted by: "angela182548" angela182548@yahoo.com angela182548
Date: Sat Oct 13, 2007 5:18 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee Lee" <rlee@...> wrote:

> Dry stools are the result of bony meals....meaty meals will produce
softer
> stools. You could add a bit more meat, but don't overdo it! :)


Actually today is the first day that she has had any bones, well she
had a little last night but i ended up cutting the bone out for her :-)
Tonight I did great with my "chicken bone choking fear" and I gave her
a 1/4 chicken ...and she did great..bone & all. But this AM she had
about 7oz of beef and about 2oz of liver. I have been giving them
liver & beef every day for the past 8 days.
Would this be a time for some veggies? She has been grazing ALOT. I
just want her to be comfortable. What else can I do?
Thanks for your help, Angela

Messages in this topic (15)
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1c. Re: poop
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sat Oct 13, 2007 5:34 pm ((PDT))

Nope, there's never a time for veggies, Angela! :) I thought she had eaten
bone with the chicken half you gave her yesterday...before the second
feeding when you got scared? And turkey necks a couple of days ago?

I really wouldn't worry about it unless she is clearly showing symptoms of
distress. Didn't sound like she is actually constipated...she just had some
dry stool, right? Let her body get used to digesting this new food. If she
needs something to help her along, fatty meat and organs will do it...but
it's pretty easy to overdo that and end up with the opposite problem!

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "angela182548" <angela182548@yahoo.com>

Actually today is the first day that she has had any bones, well she
had a little last night but i ended up cutting the bone out for her :-)
Tonight I did great with my "chicken bone choking fear" and I gave her
a 1/4 chicken ...and she did great..bone & all. But this AM she had
about 7oz of beef and about 2oz of liver. I have been giving them
liver & beef every day for the past 8 days.
Would this be a time for some veggies? She has been grazing ALOT. I
just want her to be comfortable. What else can I do?

Messages in this topic (15)
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1d. Re: poop
Posted by: "angela182548" angela182548@yahoo.com angela182548
Date: Sat Oct 13, 2007 6:24 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee Lee" <rlee@...> wrote:
>
> Nope, there's never a time for veggies, Angela! :)

Ok No Veggies..lol

I thought she had eaten
> bone with the chicken half you gave her yesterday...before the
second
> feeding when you got scared? And turkey necks a couple of days
ago?

OK i must admit as far as the turkey neck goes ..I cut what meat I
could off the bone for her.
And yesterday she got a little bit of bone and then once again I cut
the bone out.. I know ..I know... lol
But tonight I stepped back and let her do her thing.. :-)

>fatty meat and organs will do it...but
> it's pretty easy to overdo that and end up with the opposite
problem!

OK, I wont stress.... and if she is still straining to go tomorrow I
will give her more liver.
Thanks so much! Angela

>

Messages in this topic (15)
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1e. Re: poop
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Sat Oct 13, 2007 7:38 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "angela182548" <angela182548@...>
wrote:
> But tonight I stepped back and let her do her thing.. :-

Way to go Angela--by george, i think ya got it!

>and if she is still straining to go tomorrow I
> will give her more liver.

Now, i know ya got it.

Great job finding the archives and reading. I know that talking is
fun, i like all the sharing and stuff, but you can learn way more, way
faster reading there.

Also, that was a perfect trim on your last post. You did WAY good
today. Let us know how it goes for you tomorrow. KathyM

Messages in this topic (15)
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2a. Re: Newbie, dog losing weight, how much do I feed?
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sat Oct 13, 2007 4:51 pm ((PDT))

Helen,

You may not need to feed more if you just replace the veggies with some nice
meat. Remember, the diet should consist of mainly meat (approximately 80%
overall), a little bit of bone and organs (around 10% each).

And if that doesn't work, by all means, increase the amount of food. But
stick to meat, bones and organs...no carbs!

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "helenlogan5" <helenlogan5@yahoo.co.uk>

I started with chicken wings, minced tripe and chicken from the pet
store and lightly cooked veg which is then put through the food
processor. I have just found a fabulous 'proper' butcher who saves
all his bones and offcuts for me (free - it costs him £35 a week to
get rid of them!!) They had a breast of lamb each last night - it
was wonderful to see them ripping a tearing at their food - and
today have been really lazy - did I feed them too much? or is this
what they would do in the wild - sleep off a heavy meal?

My youngest, Gypsy (2 yrs) is always on the go and I have noticed
that she is losing weight, do I 'fill her up' with pasta, rice,
carbs etc? or should I increase her meat/bone food? She has a cast
iron stomach. All 3 of them love fruit - a real treat for them is a
wrinkly satsuma!

Messages in this topic (4)
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2b. Re: Newbie, dog losing weight, how much do I feed?
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 3:16 am ((PDT))

Hi, Helen!
Welcome to the raw side! ^_^

You'll want to feed more meat. No grains, carbs, veggies or fruits.
Lots more meat, and some organs, 'specially liver.

You can add more fatty meats, such as pork; fresh hams or shoulders
with the skin and lovely fat layer. Feed whole chickens without
trimming any fat or skin off, and tongue. Heart is lean meat, but if
you can get it with the fat cap still on thats great for adding
weight, too.

Check out this message from the archive on starting raw feeding;
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/141374

post # 141374

And these websites;
http://www.rawlearning.com/rawfaq.html

http://www.rawfed.com/myths/index.html

http://rawfeddogs.net/Recipes

http://mypetcarnivore.com/dogs_eating.htm

http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/

http://www.virtualweberbullet.com/meatcharts.html

http://www.livefoods.co.uk/

HTHs
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> Hi I started feeding my 3 border collies raw about 4 weeks ago
<snip>
> I would appreciate any advice and tips anyone can give.
>
> Helen
>

Messages in this topic (4)
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3a. Re: pet sitter and raw food - how to prepare
Posted by: "Monica" mommyof2gals@comcast.net mommyof2gals
Date: Sat Oct 13, 2007 5:18 pm ((PDT))

I have 2 50lb keeshonden on raw. When we went to Disney for two weeks, I had
a large Tupperware filled with first few days meat. Then, in the freezer, I
had other Tupperware stacked in order (top to bottom, and then back behind
in rows) and told the dog sitter to just pull the next container to the
counter in the morning to defrost and feed it at night.

It allowed for the variety, but was brainless for the sitter. He said it was
a breeze, even though he had never raw fed before.

Monica in iL

Messages in this topic (3)
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4a. Re: How do I find the archives?
Posted by: "angela sims" angela182548@yahoo.com angela182548
Date: Sat Oct 13, 2007 5:18 pm ((PDT))

Thank you, I found them. Angela

Sandee Lee <rlee@plix.com> wrote: Angela,

If you are on individual emails, it's easy as there are several links to
click on at the bottom of each message. If you are not receiving individual
emails, go to the group website....
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/
and click on messages.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "angela182548" <angela182548@yahoo.com>

Can you guys direct me to the archives.... pls & thank you,

---------------------------------
Tonight's top picks. What will you watch tonight? Preview the hottest shows on Yahoo! TV.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
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5. Lamb for raw feeders?
Posted by: "Jenna Baxter" jennabaxter@sbcglobal.net baxterbcollie
Date: Sat Oct 13, 2007 6:24 pm ((PDT))

Hi everyone. I am new to raising sheep, about a year experience now,
and I was wondering what kind of market there is for selling lamb to
raw feeders. How much could I expect to make? How large should the
lambs need to be? Would I be responsible for slaughtering them or
would someone come and pick up a live lamb? I have a million questions
so if anyone wants to help me out I'd appreciate it. I don't know the
first thing about marketing lambs. I had all ewe lambs last Feb. and I
kept them all for breeding and I just had triplet ram lambs last
night, so I am wondering about which market to try to advertise to.
Thanks in advance!

Jenna Baxter

Messages in this topic (1)
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6a. Info needed for someone interested in switching
Posted by: "Trish Chapman" twotheark@verizon.net twotheark
Date: Sat Oct 13, 2007 7:39 pm ((PDT))

I know someone who is interested in switching to raw and need to give them
some info to read. I am going to refer them to bluegrace.com, rawfed.com,
and rawmeatybones.com. Is there anywhere else I should refer them? Also,
I thought Work Wonders by Tom Lonsdale was available some where online to
read, but I can't find it. Thanks for any help.

Trish

Messages in this topic (2)
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6b. Re: Info needed for someone interested in switching
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sat Oct 13, 2007 8:08 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Trish!
Kewl!
You can go here and print out this post if you want;

*http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/141374 *

*post # 141374*

and those websites are great;

http://www.rawlearning.com/rawfaq.html

http://www.rawfed.com/myths/index.html

http://rawfeddogs.net/Recipes

http://mypetcarnivore.com/dogs_eating.htm
Tom Lonsdale's book used to be available free online to read or dl, but
they're charging for it now.
I wouldn't recommend that you, or they, buy it. But if you want to look it
over, let me know and I'll email the pdf file to you.
TC
Giselle

I know someone who is interested in switching to raw and need to give them
some info to read. I am going to refer them to bluegrace.com, rawfed.com,
and rawmeatybones.com
Is there anywhere else I should refer them? Also I thought Work Wonders by
Tom Lonsdale was available some where online to read, but I can't find it.
Thanks for any help.
Trish

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
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7. What do I feed my dane pup that's recovering from Parvo?
Posted by: "dogsofnature" dogsofnature@yahoo.com dogsofnature
Date: Sat Oct 13, 2007 8:05 pm ((PDT))

Hello,

My five month old dane puppy was diagnosed with Parvo yesterday. She
was vaccinated in Aug with a single dose, but somehow she tested
positive for it. She stayed in the hospital last night and was
cleared to come back home tonight. They said she's doing well, but
will have diarrhea for a few days. I just moved to Athens, OH and
there are no Holistic Veterinarians here. I feed my dane raw meaty
bones, but the vet wants me to give her cans of garbage, a.k.a.
Science Diet, for a few days. I don't want to give her commercial
food, it might slow down her healing progress. Is it safe to give her
raw food? Does parvo wipe out the beneficial bacteria in the stomach
that aids in the digestion of raw food? I'm not going to feed her
until breakfast time, I just want to make sure I give her the right
boost for her immune system. Should I feed her chicken broth and then
ease into the raw diet? Any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Kesha & Princess Nala

Messages in this topic (1)
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8a. Re: Wretching Dog
Posted by: "johkemp" johkemp@yahoo.com.au johkemp
Date: Sat Oct 13, 2007 10:15 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "patrice_quinn" <patrice@...> wrote:
>
> We will continue to rawfeed but will not be giving bones anymore.
I'll be adding ground eggshells for now and looking into bonemeal as a
substitute to get them the calcium they need.
>
> I'm glad to read that your dog is over the difficulties it was having.
While I can understand your reluctance to risk a repeat of this problem
I would urge you to reconsider not feeding any bones. Instead of just
feeding drumsticks try quarters or freeze them to slow down her
eating. Bones are for so more than just nutrition.

Jo

Messages in this topic (14)
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9a. Re: cooked diets
Posted by: "johkemp" johkemp@yahoo.com.au johkemp
Date: Sat Oct 13, 2007 10:15 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Joanne Thompson" <stnhvn@...> wrote:
>
> Ooops...ofcourse I should also have asked...does anyone have any
links to very user friendly and simple pro-rawfeeding articles on the
web ?
>
>
These are the links I add to any YA posts I do on rawfeeding.

An informative article called 'Dogs are Carnivores"
http://www.dogtorj.net/id51.html
A feeding guide written by Tom Lonsdale,a vet who advocates raw feeding.
http://www.rawmeatybones.com/diet/exp-diet-guide.pdf
A page answering myths about raw feeding and bones
http://rawfed.com/myths/

I hope they help,

Jo

Messages in this topic (25)
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10a. Re: butchering
Posted by: "Tracey WAGC" wagc@sasktel.net frustrated_tracey
Date: Sat Oct 13, 2007 10:16 pm ((PDT))

Well I'm new to raw feeding but I will just hack it up, not sure about leaving the fur on, maybe someone from the group can answer that. I know that Ill be leave the hooves and lower leg with the fur on just to try it. But I'll freeze the pieces first. Maybe leave it on the head also. But I don't think I'll be as careful as I would if I were eating it, after all in the wild the dogs would just tear pieces off.

Tracey

----- Original Message -----
From: krystal_brr
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 2:31 PM
Subject: [rawfeeding] Re: butchering

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Tracey WAGC <wagc@...> wrote:
>
> Krystal, What do you need to know? >

I guess I just wanted to know if you just hack it up or if you are as
careful as when you will be consuming the meat? I am envisioning just
chunks of meat with pieces of bone left in... is that about it?

I am with you.. loins are mine, but they can have the rest:-)

Krystal

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This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.

http://www.eset.com

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Messages in this topic (7)
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11a. Re: My dog has a chicken allergy.
Posted by: "johkemp" johkemp@yahoo.com.au johkemp
Date: Sat Oct 13, 2007 10:16 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "m.thompson74" <m.thompson74@...>
wrote:
>
> ++++++Mod note: please sign all emails. ++++++++++++
>
>
> Hi, I'm new to raw food. I'm reading that chicken would be best to
> start out with. My problem is that one of my dogs is allergic to
> chicken. Is it possible that he may be allergic just to the kibble
> form and he may do just fine with raw? Has anyone else had this
> issue?
>
I agree with Bill, it is most likely the cooked chicken in the kibble
or almost any of the other ingredients they put in there. Don't rule
out a nutritious and cheap source of food based on kibble.

I believe that 'allergy' is one of the most overused terms of the
century. A dog whose immune system is under attack from inappropriate
foods is likely to be more 'intolerant' of certain things. This is
not an allergy.

Jo

Messages in this topic (8)
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12. Raw Food
Posted by: "Jennifer" kali_moonwolf@yahoo.com kali_moonwolf
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 2:15 am ((PDT))

Wow, it seems so simple now. Not that I want to offend anyone by
talking off topic, so please, as several of you have, I'd appreciate
other emails on the topics I've discussed. The raw food diet is going
great. It is difficult to understand all the excuses and worries.
Maybe because I lived in Australia, where it's so easy *sometime not,
lol*, but maybe because I've also had health doctors that like the
natural approach.. anyway. Why would things like fur and skin matter?
So they get it, so they don't. Not a big deal. If you are imitating
nature and you hunt and have access to a full carcass, then great,
let the dog go at it and see what he eats! If not, Im sure he'll be
fine with the easily procurred meat and bones from the store. Not
happy? Read a book from Ian Billinghurst (or other's, noted in
archives) and feed MEAT. As long as it has BONE and MEAT what does it
matter, whether it's pig, beef, chicken or human? All the posts here
make it seem so complicated. I just wanted to discuss this as it was
surprising how many individuals worried about somewhat trivial
issues, but in not wanting to go off topic, I had to be somewhat
swiss. At any rate, Im loving my new puppy and greatly appreciate all
the individual support I've gotten. Thanks again!
SIGNED-
-JENNIFER MILLIRON

Messages in this topic (1)
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13a. Re: Whole Pork Shoulder
Posted by: "thebestformyboys" llb6984@comcast.net thebestformyboys
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 4:57 am ((PDT))

> These two characters are quite young. How do they look in their 80
> pounds each? That is high for goldens unless they quite large, as
in
> oversized. Are your youngsters lean machines or are you having to
> watch their weight?

> Chris O
>

Chris,

I live in Florida, and in the summer both dogs tend to put on a
little weight, its hard to exercise in 95 degree heat. Cooper is
huge....a big gentle giant. He looks good at 76-78lbs. Nice waist,
very muscular. He will not swim, but loves to run. Right now he could
stand to lose maybe 3lbs. My husband disagrees and thinks he's
perfect. Logan has a bad hip from an injury and will not run too much
at all,he is incredibly lazy too, but he does love to swim. Although
it's not alway convenient to have a sopping wet dog in the house, and
of course since its a swimming pool, he has to be washed after due to
chlorine and it drys his skin out if he goes in too much. He looks
good at maybe 70-73lbs max. He is a lot smaller than his brother, he
still has a waist (barely) but looks good from the side. Both dogs
will slim down this winter, I make sure of it, not doing Logan's hip
any favors with extra weight. I'm hoping without feeding grains
anymore it will be even easier. I feel better a little too skinny
than too fat, husband fights me on this. Dogs are 3 1/2 years young.
I'm feeding approx. 1lb at night and 8oz. in the morning for Cooper
and 5 for Logan. Think this is too much? It looks like a lot less
than what they were getting. Not much coming out the other end!Cooper
is always looking for food, Logan doesn't care and refused breakfast
yesterday. This is not uncommon for him.
I'm taking every one's advice on the pork shoulder! I bought two
more. Cut up 2 in big hunks leaving lots on the bones and I'll leave
one whole and try taking turns. Cooper has some nice poops (as far as
poops go!) Logan's are a little wet and small--poodle poops, but
together. Do you think I can try some pork now? They've only had
chick, beef and turkey, since going prey model. Should I wait longer
to add more things? 7 days today.

Laurie Barnett
PSL, FL

Messages in this topic (6)
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