[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12161

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Hives, Dogs get hives?
From: Virginia Snider
1b. Re: Hives, Dogs get hives?
From: Casey Post

2a. Re: My dog has a chicken allergy.
From: Renate

3a. Re: Is this true? J' question?
From: Jai
3b. Re: Is this true? J' question?
From: susrob061174

4.1. Re: New to group
From: Giselle
4.2. Re: New to group
From: costrowski75

5a. Re: a question on beef
From: kickrocks54

6a. Re: Not constipated, just no poop
From: Yasuko herron

7a. Is this true?
From: Delinda Harmon
7b. Re: Is this true?
From: costrowski75

8a. Ear infection
From: great_dane_devotee

9a. Still a Newbie to this
From: totaly_his
9b. Re: Still a Newbie to this
From: costrowski75
9c. Re: Still a Newbie to this
From: Yasuko herron
9d. Re: Still a Newbie to this
From: carnesbill

10a. HELP!! Dog just ate a whole twix bar - should I induce vomiting??
From: alexanderdewey
10b. Re: HELP!! Dog just ate a whole twix bar - should I induce vomiting?
From: temy1102
10c. Re: HELP!! Dog just ate a whole twix bar - should I induce vomiting?
From: Tracy P-C
10d. Re: HELP!! Dog just ate a whole twix bar - should I induce vomiting?
From: John and Jeni Blackmon
10e. Re: HELP!! Dog just ate a whole twix bar - should I induce vomiting?
From: Casey Post
10f. Re: HELP!! Dog just ate a whole twix bar - should I induce vomiting?
From: John and Jeni Blackmon
10g. Re: HELP!! Dog just ate a whole twix bar - should I induce vomiting?
From: Giselle
10h. Re: HELP!! Dog just ate a whole twix bar - should I induce vomiting?
From: T Smith

11a. Re: Wretching Dog
From: patrice_quinn

Messages
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1a. Hives, Dogs get hives?
Posted by: "Virginia Snider" vsnider@cogeco.ca rawbglass
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 4:45 pm ((PDT))

Hi,

My Pug, (11 mos), was slipped a chicken wiener yesterday and today has mild
hives. He had a much worse reaction about 2 weeks ago when given a
pepperoni dog treat.

When I first got him he had been on the cheapest cardboard available, going
4 times a day. He's been doing pretty well for the last few months, with
the exception of intro to organs, (and now I know firsthand the true meaning
of cannon butt :-))

I never knew dogs got hives. What gives? Is it some sort of grain problem?

TIA, you guys are a real help,

Virginia

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
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1b. Re: Hives, Dogs get hives?
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 4:52 pm ((PDT))

> I never knew dogs got hives. What gives? Is it some sort of grain
> problem?

An allergic reaction to something, surely.

More reason to feed this dog raw - so you know exactly what is going into
him...

Casey

Messages in this topic (2)
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2a. Re: My dog has a chicken allergy.
Posted by: "Renate" renate.tideswell@gmail.com tideswell_renate
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 5:10 pm ((PDT))

You can't know if it's an allergy or not without specific IGe tests.
Sensitivities and allergies are all quite alike in how they behave. It's
like a tap dripping into a bucket. There are things that trigger a drip
(reaction) and at a certain point the bucket overflows. It may be a mild
reaction to something but if the bucket is full, it will overflow. So the
thing to do is to lighten the overall load.

Also, cooked and raw things can cause totally different reactions or
non-reactions. Because the proteins are altered during cooking.

Renate

> form and he may do just fine with raw? Has anyone else had this
> > issue?
> >
> I agree with Bill, it is most likely the cooked chicken in the kibble
> or almost any of the other ingredients they put in there. Don't rule
> out a nutritious and cheap source of food based on kibble.
>
> I believe that 'allergy' is one of the most overused terms of the
> century. A dog whose immune system is under attack from inappropriate
> foods is likely to be more 'intolerant' of certain things. This is
> not an allergy.
>
> Jo
>
>
>

--
Renate
'The more I learn about men, the more I love my Shih Tzu'

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (9)
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3a. Re: Is this true? J' question?
Posted by: "Jai" jredwing@windstream.net onesupercat
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 5:10 pm ((PDT))

Susanne,
Where are you in GA? I am in N. GA., near Dalton.
Jai...>^.^<...

He told me that it was agaisnt the law to give the organs out.
Susanne

Messages in this topic (2)
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3b. Re: Is this true? J' question?
Posted by: "susrob061174" susrob061174@yahoo.com susrob061174
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 5:59 pm ((PDT))

I guess you can call it Mid East Georgia. About 52 miles east of
Macon, GA and about 12 north of Dublin, Ga. Back country, I may add.

Susanne

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Jai" <jredwing@...> wrote:
>
> Susanne,
> Where are you in GA? I am in N. GA., near Dalton.
> Jai...>^.^<...

Messages in this topic (2)
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4.1. Re: New to group
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 6:06 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Cindy!
Welcome to the raw side! ^_^

Here's an archived post with suggestions to begin raw feeding. It includes a
great compilation of ideas for how to find a variety of raw for your dog.;

*http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/141374 *

*post # 141374*

You can print the info out for future reference if you want.

btw, don't think "meaty Bones", think "MEAT with a little bone", much more
helpful! Organs can wait, but you can fed what you can get with whole
chickens.*
*
I have to say that you have done the best thing by deciding to feed your dog
raw. Kibble has so many inappropriate ingredients, and its all cooked to
boot, that it can cause a lot of problems. Raw is species appropriate and so
much more bioavailable, that I'm sure your guy will get the nutrients he
needs to be less itchy real soon and be able to wean off the pred.

Be prepared, tho'. Some dogs are not only sensitive to Kibble, but have
inhalant allergies to such things as pollen, molds and mildew. As well as
environmental pollutants, such as common everyday chemicals that we use on
ourselves, our dogs, house and yards, even what carpets and fabrics are made
of or treated with can off gas and cause itchy skin in dogs. So, while you
and your dog are learning about raw feeding, try to review what chemicals he
is exposed to, and reduce these to the absolute minimum. I'm sure that you
will see a terrific difference in him soon!

A few websites to help with raw feeding, too;

http://www.rawlearning.com/rawfaq.html

http://www.rawfed.com/myths/index.html

http://rawfeddogs.net/Recipes

http://mypetcarnivore.com/dogs_eating.htm

TC and keep us posed with your progress! What's your dog's name?

Giselle

with Bea in New Jersey
<http://mypetcarnivore.com/dogs_eating.htm>

On 10/14/07, cwnsc <cwells5@charter.net> wrote:
>
> My Golden suffers from skin problems. He was put on prednisone and is
> not himself. I am beginning raw feeding today. I have found all
> local grocers in my area do not carry organs - they rely on shipped in
> packaged products - no meaty bones - no butchers. I was able to find
> ox tails and turkey necks.
> Cindy
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (80)
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4.2. Re: New to group
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 7:46 pm ((PDT))

"cwnsc" <cwells5@...> wrote:>
> My Golden suffers from skin problems. He was put on prednisone and is
> not himself.
*****
Oh I expect not! Poor dog. We must get him off the Pred as soon as we
can (safely of course) and start him on the road to wellness. I had a
golden with "allergies" and skin issues but was fortunate enough not to
have succumbed to Pred...and then of course to have discovered raw.
Can you say BIG DIFFERENCE?

I have found all
> local grocers in my area do not carry organs - they rely on shipped
in
> packaged products - no meaty bones - no butchers.
*****
Hmm. Where have you been looking? If local grocers don't (how odd),
then branch out to chain supermarkets that offer a larger selection.

I have always been able to find without too much effort the basic whole
chicken, chicken parts including gizzards, hearts and liver; pork
shoulders (although some have been awfully small for a golden) and
other boneless pork parts; frozen (probably enhanced) whole turkeys;
various beef parts (boneless is not only fine, it's generally
recommended) plus beef liver; and very often some token offering of
lamb. Keep looking!

I was able to find
> oxe tails and turkey necks.
*****
I would without question postpone oxtails for now, if not
indefinitely. Unless what you got is one glorious whole length of
oxtail that your dog can really work on, the product is a collection of
small, mostly bony sections that are just the right size to encourage
gluttony, particularly in a novice dog.

Turkey necks may be useful, but I have never felt comfortable feeding
them (at least not the hen necks sold in most markets) to my Labs and
goldens. Even my BC when she was still quite a baby chomped right
through a hen neck and swallowed the last two-ish inches in a grand
gesture. No thanks, I don't do turkey necks, except to give to my
cat. Others have found them successful, so the choice is yours. If
you have an enthusiastic golden you might want to delay feeding the
turkey necks as well.

I suggest two things to start: chicken parts and a good browse of the
archived messages. You can buy a whole chicken and cut it up, you can
buy leg quarters ready to hand out, you can buy rib-in breasts. These
are plenty good enough to begin with.

The list archives will answer most of the questions you have, including
how to deal with poorly stocked grocers. Here's how to join
Yahoogroups so you can access the Rawfeeding message archives:
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/join

Additionally, here are a couple websites you will find useful:
http://rawfed.com
http://rawfeddogs.net

Chris O

Messages in this topic (80)
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5a. Re: a question on beef
Posted by: "kickrocks54" kick_rocks54@hotmail.com kickrocks54
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 6:32 pm ((PDT))

great, thanks guys. He's doing well eating the ribs and chewing on the
bones a bit, but the big help was the comment about rushing in and
causing digestive problems. last couple days hes been having some
nasty mucusy stool. im actually getting a little discouraged. ill
probably take it easy on the beef and stick to chicken quarters as his
main staple for a bit. maybe give him a small amount of hamburger to
get him used to it? anyway, thanks again.

adam and rabbit

Messages in this topic (4)
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6a. Re: Not constipated, just no poop
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 6:39 pm ((PDT))

Tracy,

After switching to raw,my dog's poo times got lessen andvolume got lessen too.

Now,after about 5 months from diet change,my dog does poo about 1 per day maybe about pinky finger size or little more but not as much as times on kibble.

Very rare but sometimes,she gets no poo too.

Don't be alarmed.It is just that digested and no waste to poop out.

If you feed mostly grain(unnecessary food for dogs and cannot utelize),you can see the difference how much difference poo volume would makes... maybe you see 3 times more of volume or something I imagine..

As long as yourdog seems fine and not walking around with back hunching or something,I would not worry about it.

yassy

---------------------------------
Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.

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Messages in this topic (4)
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7a. Is this true?
Posted by: "Delinda Harmon" dharmon@homenetnw.net delinda_harmon
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 6:40 pm ((PDT))

Tracy,

I have known plenty of hunters who eat the organs right after the kill. So
I know it is not illegal here in Washington state either. I think the guy
just may have objections to raw feeding the organs to a pet.

Delinda

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
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7b. Re: Is this true?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:31 pm ((PDT))

"trayc2244" <BreeZ119@...> wrote:
He told me that it was agaisnt the law
> to give the organs out. He said they had to be sent to the CDC. Have
> you guys heard of this?
*****
For the most part I'd say the guy is confused. However, I know
California is freaked out by the potential for CWD to find its way
across state lines; perhaps this organ round up is related to a CWD
scare in your state. What state are you in?
Chris O

Messages in this topic (4)
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8a. Ear infection
Posted by: "great_dane_devotee" libpowers@mac.com great_dane_devotee
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:06 pm ((PDT))

My Flat Coat Retriever appears to be having an ear infection. She's a dog who has pretty bad
allergies and I took her off of her Chinese herbs when I switched her to raw. The herbs are
specialy formulated for a variety of needs and given under the supervision of her chiropractic
vet. Does moving a dog to raw generate a cleansing process in the dog, like fasting does for
a human? So this is just a part of the balancing of her body? Or is it just seasonal allergies
acting up in the fall. I have an appt with her regular vet tomorrow.

Since she has been on raw, I've definitely noticed she has been happier. She's actually been
playing with our other dog--nicely! It's kind of a shock since she has a thyroid imbalance
and has tended to be cranky.

Thanks for your input.

Libby

Amica and Serena

Messages in this topic (11)
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9a. Still a Newbie to this
Posted by: "totaly_his" totaly_his@yahoo.com totaly_his
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:06 pm ((PDT))

I have a few questions:
Does frozen raw food have a "shelf life"?
When I feed my dog the raw food, do I wash it real well before giving
it?
When I begin feeding, do I buy organic meats or just buy what my local
supermarket carries?
Without so many of you "veteran" rawfeeders out there to help us
newbies begin this, we would be up a creek. Thanks for all your
experience in helping us start this great way of feeding.
Thank you, Jackie

Messages in this topic (4)
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9b. Re: Still a Newbie to this
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:45 pm ((PDT))

"totaly_his" <totaly_his@...> wrote:
> Does frozen raw food have a "shelf life"?
*****
Not so a dog would notice, no.

> When I feed my dog the raw food, do I wash it real well before giving
> it?
*****
Heck no. Just feed it. Sometimes and for my own tolerances--if the
meat is gotten stinky and/or slimy from languishing in the fridge too
long--I will rinse the meat but truly this is for my nose, not my dogs'
stomachs.

> When I begin feeding, do I buy organic meats or just buy what my
local
> supermarket carries?
*****
You really ought not waste your money on organic meats. Livestock fed
organic soybeans are still inappropriately fed; and organic corn is
still corn and is still another inappropriate food. Organic is rarely
required to meet the needs of a species appropriate diet.

If you want to direct your money most effectively, buy grassfed
livestock and freerange poultry. The food these animals eat may not be
organic but it will be real and correct, which in terms of health is
more relevant by far.

If you can't find or afford grassfed meats, buy what you can at the
supermarket and from other sources; don't let the absence of perfection
bog down your progress. FWIW, goat and most lamb sold in the US are
grassfed.

Chris O

Messages in this topic (4)
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9c. Re: Still a Newbie to this
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:54 pm ((PDT))

>Does frozen raw food have a "shelf life"?

I think frozen for human maybe,but for dogs,I doubt it. I know that someone on this list got nice frozen meat from somebody who kept meat about 5 years and her/his dog was ok eating it,I remember the post.so,probably ok for old meat that is frozen.

>When I feed my dog the raw food, do I wash it real well before giving it?

I once have read that people dunk the meat into grape seed extract to kill bacteria or something,but I just feed as is and no washing.My dog is 2 years old but doing fine for last 5 months now.

Dog lick the paws after walking around the neighborhood and seem no ill effect and some dogs loves eating other dogs' poo andstill no ill efect,so,I think that meat's bacteria is no prob.

Dog has shorter intestine than human so, what we cannot eat is not necessary be bad for them.If you worry about salmonella,then,dog has short intestine so,before the bacteria tries to infect dogs,the bacteria poop out in feces and dog do not get sick from it.

Human has long intestine andfood stay in body longer than dogs.So,when you eat something that is infected by bacteria,the bacteria tries to infect you and since you have longer intestine,before it gets poop out,you get infected by the bacteria;bacteria gets more chance to grow in longer intestine.

>When I begin feeding, do I buy organic meats or just buy what my local grocery carry?
If you could afford grassfed meat,then great,but it is costy. Grocery meat is ok.
Just watch out not to buy meat seasoned or meat in brined or meat that has broth injected etc.Those tend to irritate dog's stomach.

yassy

---------------------------------
Check out the hottest 2008 models today at Yahoo! Autos.

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Messages in this topic (4)
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9d. Re: Still a Newbie to this
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:55 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "totaly_his" <totaly_his@...> wrote:
>
> Does frozen raw food have a "shelf life"?

Not really ... I often get meat from friends thats been in their
freezer for 2 or 3 or more years. I fed some the other night that had
a 2002 date on it.

> When I feed my dog the raw food, do I wash it real well
> before giving it?

No need.

> When I begin feeding, do I buy organic meats or just buy what
> my local supermarket carries?

I buy what my local supermarket carries and what I can beg off
friends. :) :) :)

> Without so many of you "veteran" rawfeeders out there to help us
> newbies begin this, we would be up a creek.

Not really. It's pretty hard to do it wrong. :) :) :)

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (4)
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10a. HELP!! Dog just ate a whole twix bar - should I induce vomiting??
Posted by: "alexanderdewey" alexanderdewey@yahoo.com alexanderdewey
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:06 pm ((PDT))

+++++Mod note: pls sign your emails +++++++++++

I KNOW this is the forum for RAW but please help. My 46 lb pit ate a
twix bar 15 minutes ago. Should I induce vomiting? She's never
accidently consumed chocolate before. You can reply directly to my
email. Thanks!

Messages in this topic (8)
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10b. Re: HELP!! Dog just ate a whole twix bar - should I induce vomiting?
Posted by: "temy1102" ahn.tammy@gmail.com temy1102
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:24 pm ((PDT))

If she doesn't decide to vomit by herself, she's probably fine. You
may have some funky diarrhea to deal with later though. It actually
takes more chocolate than you would think to harm a dog, especially a
big one. I had a 6 lb. chihuahua eat a box of truffles and was fine.
The higher the percentage of cocoa, the higher the danger, so with
milk chocolate, especially a twix bar that's mostly cookie and
caramel, I don't think you have anything to worry about. But of
course, if she's acting strangely (besides a sugar high), call an
emergency vet.

-Tammy

Messages in this topic (8)
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10c. Re: HELP!! Dog just ate a whole twix bar - should I induce vomiting?
Posted by: "Tracy P-C" tpreston721@yahoo.com tpreston721
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:25 pm ((PDT))

I wouldn't worry about it too much - Just keep an eye on her - It is usually Baker's Chocolate or dark chocolate that cause problems in dogs - I had my Rottweiler eat to chocolate candy bars (my husband left them out) when she was younger - The only problem she had was a little tummy ache, but nothing to worry about - Good luck with her

Tracy

alexanderdewey <alexanderdewey@yahoo.com> wrote:
+++++Mod note: pls sign your emails +++++++++++

I KNOW this is the forum for RAW but please help. My 46 lb pit ate a
twix bar 15 minutes ago. Should I induce vomiting? She's never
accidently consumed chocolate before. You can reply directly to my
email. Thanks!

---------------------------------
Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows.
Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (8)
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10d. Re: HELP!! Dog just ate a whole twix bar - should I induce vomiting?
Posted by: "John and Jeni Blackmon" jonjeni777@sbcglobal.net jeniavidiva
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:55 pm ((PDT))

Alexander,
Have you been able to take care of the problem, haven't seen anymore emails?
Did you go to the vet, did you enduce vomiting?
How is the dog doing now?

Jeni

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (8)
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10e. Re: HELP!! Dog just ate a whole twix bar - should I induce vomiting?
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 9:10 pm ((PDT))

> I KNOW this is the forum for RAW but please help. My 46 lb pit ate a
> twix bar 15 minutes ago. Should I induce vomiting? She's never
> accidently consumed chocolate before. You can reply directly to my
> email.

A Twix bar - like the milk chocolate/cookie/caramel thing? If so, that
would NOT CONCERN ME AT ALL. There isn't enough chocolate in there to so
much as phase the liver of a healthy 46 lb dog. Her liver isn't even going
to blink at that amount/type of chocolate.

Your girl will be FINE.

The sugar, on the other hand, may result in some squirty poops. And if
she's prone to yeasty ears, you may see an increase in yeastiness (from the
sugar).

But this is NOT a life-threatening situation. It's just another example of
the fine opportunistic nature of our beloved carnivores.

Casey

Messages in this topic (8)
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10f. Re: HELP!! Dog just ate a whole twix bar - should I induce vomiting?
Posted by: "John and Jeni Blackmon" jonjeni777@sbcglobal.net jeniavidiva
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 10:28 pm ((PDT))

I forgot to say, with larger dogs, it is usually ok, and a twix is not alot of chocolate, more cookie and gooey, and then chocolate. So if he hasn't done any weird stuff, probably ok.
Hope all is well.
Jeni

----- Original Message ----
From: John and Jeni Blackmon <jonjeni777@sbcglobal.net>
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2007 7:36:42 PM
Subject: Re: [rawfeeding] HELP!! Dog just ate a whole twix bar - should I induce vomiting??

Alexander,
Have you been able to take care of the problem, haven't seen anymore emails?
Did you go to the vet, did you enduce vomiting?
How is the dog doing now?

Jeni

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (8)
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10g. Re: HELP!! Dog just ate a whole twix bar - should I induce vomiting?
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 11:24 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Alexander!
How is your dog doing?

Here's a couple links, both about chocolate toxicity, and one with other
poison warnings and the ASPCA poison control center number;
http://www.vetinfo4dogs.com/dtoxin.html
http://www.gsrne.org/Chocolate.htm

TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

On 10/14/07, alexanderdewey <alexanderdewey@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> +++++Mod note: pls sign your emails +++++++++++
>
> I KNOW this is the forum for RAW but please help. My 46 lb pit ate a
> twix bar 15 minutes ago. Should I induce vomiting? She's never
> accidentally consumed chocolate before. You can reply directly to my
> email. Thanks!
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (8)
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10h. Re: HELP!! Dog just ate a whole twix bar - should I induce vomiting?
Posted by: "T Smith" coldbeach@gmail.com lhasaspots
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 11:52 pm ((PDT))

He should be totally fine.
Trina

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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11a. Re: Wretching Dog
Posted by: "patrice_quinn" patrice@patricequinn.com patrice_quinn
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:07 pm ((PDT))

Thank you, Jo, I will keep that in mind. Right now Sadie is eating 5-
6 oz. of baby food meats per day without any difficulty. However, her
esophagus must still be slightly injured and healing as we gave her a
couple of very small, soft pieces of meat yesterday and she
immediately had that gagging reflex kick in for a little bit. So
we're thinking of pureeing some raw ground london broil and see how
she does with that for another few days before we re-introduce chunks
of meat again and then go from there. But I do understand your point
that bones are important for many reasons, Patrice

Messages in this topic (15)
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