Feed Pets Raw Food: [rawfeeding] Digest Number 12173

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Beef lungs
From: doreenchui

2a. Re: Flax seed oil
From: Laurie Swanson
2b. Re: Flax seed oil
From: doreenchui
2c. Re: Flax seed oil
From: Sandee Lee
2d. Re: Flax seed oil
From: Finster Boy
2e. Re: Flax seed oil
From: Shannon Parker
2f. Re: Flax seed oil
From: doreenchui
2g. Re: Flax seed oil
From: moemahood@aol.com
2h. Fish oil capsules Re: [rawfeeding] Re: Flax seed oil
From: Pepper

3a. Re: New to raw feeding - loose poo
From: costrowski75

4a. Raw Feeding and LGD
From: siamesekittens4u@aol.com

5a. Anal glands prone to infection
From: Finster Boy
5b. Re: Anal glands prone to infection
From: carnesbill
5c. Re: Anal glands prone to infection
From: Sandee Lee

6.1. Re: Freecycle ad Was: Venison
From: Kathie Middlemiss

7a. Chicken? But she loves Beef! Help.....
From: tiffany
7b. Re: Chicken? But she loves Beef! Help.....
From: carnesbill

8. Is it the eggs?
From: rlayt

9a. Re: Restrictive diet questions
From: carnesbill

10.1. Re: Newbie
From: Diane Young
10.2. Re: Newbie
From: Diane Young
10.3. Re: Newbie
From: Sandee Lee
10.4. Re: Newbie
From: Giselle

11a. Urine Struvites/crystals
From: Corky Becker
11b. Re: Urine Struvites/crystals
From: Sandee Lee

Messages
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1. Beef lungs
Posted by: "doreenchui" doreenchui@yeos.com doreenchui
Date: Wed Oct 17, 2007 5:48 pm ((PDT))

This is the first time that I am feeding organs. To start with, I will
try beef lungs. How much to feed or start with a 31 lbs dogs? I fed him
beef heart this morning and am thinking of feeding lungs in the evening.
Doreen

Messages in this topic (1)
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2a. Re: Flax seed oil
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Wed Oct 17, 2007 5:48 pm ((PDT))

Hi Doreen,

You can probably tell if it's rancid by smelling or tasting it. But
you're not going to get much recommendation to feed it on this list. :-
) It's really not something dogs are designed to digest. Not very
natural--not something they'd have any access to in the wild (an oil
extracted from a seed).

Laurie

Messages in this topic (10)
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2b. Re: Flax seed oil
Posted by: "doreenchui" doreenchui@yeos.com doreenchui
Date: Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:12 pm ((PDT))

What is ideal for the coat then? Any recommendation?
Thanks.
Doreen
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Laurie Swanson" <laurie@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Doreen,
>
> You can probably tell if it's rancid by smelling or tasting it. But
> you're not going to get much recommendation to feed it on this
list. :-
> ) It's really not something dogs are designed to digest. Not very
> natural--not something they'd have any access to in the wild (an oil
> extracted from a seed).
>
> Laurie
>

Messages in this topic (10)
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2c. Re: Flax seed oil
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:29 pm ((PDT))

Fish oil.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "doreenchui" <doreenchui@yeos.com>

What is ideal for the coat then? Any recommendation?

Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________

2d. Re: Flax seed oil
Posted by: "Finster Boy" finster_boy1@yahoo.com finster_boy1
Date: Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:33 pm ((PDT))

MODERATOR'S NOTE: TRIM YOUR MESSAGES!

I pierce a fish oil capsule and squeeze it on my dog's food. It's a
1,000 mg softgel. He's a companion quailty yorkie , and I get
comments on how shiny his coat is. Plus, his skin is in excellent
condition. No problems w/ fleas -I don't use the toxic frontline
stuff-and only minium ticks when they're "in season". I credit the
fish oil for this.

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "doreenchui" <doreenchui@...>
wrote:
>
> What is ideal for the coat then? Any recommendation?
> Thanks.
> Doreen
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Laurie Swanson" <laurie@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Doreen,
> >
> > You can probably tell if it's rancid by smelling or tasting it.
But
> > you're not going to get much recommendation to feed it on this
> list. :-
> > ) It's really not something dogs are designed to digest. Not
very
> > natural--not something they'd have any access to in the wild (an
oil
> > extracted from a seed).
> >
> > Laurie
> >
>

Messages in this topic (10)
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2e. Re: Flax seed oil
Posted by: "Shannon Parker" mrbatisse@yahoo.ca mrbatisse
Date: Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:49 pm ((PDT))

Hi Doreen,

Fish oil is great for the coat. Full of the omega fatty acids. I feed pure herring fish oil. Dogs coats look amazing.

Shannon

doreenchui <doreenchui@yeos.com> wrote:
What is ideal for the coat then? Any recommendation?
Thanks.
Doreen

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2f. Re: Flax seed oil
Posted by: "doreenchui" doreenchui@yeos.com doreenchui
Date: Wed Oct 17, 2007 8:37 pm ((PDT))

Pardon me for my ignorance. Pure herring fish oil means salmon oil,
cod liver oil?
Doreen
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Shannon Parker <mrbatisse@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi Doreen,
>
> Fish oil is great for the coat. Full of the omega fatty acids.
I feed pure herring fish oil. Dogs coats look amazing.
>
> Shannon
>
>
> doreenchui <doreenchui@...> wrote:
> What is ideal for the coat then? Any recommendation?
> Thanks.
> Doreen
>
>
>
> Recent Activity
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> New Members
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> 1
> New Files
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>
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Messages in this topic (10)
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2g. Re: Flax seed oil
Posted by: "moemahood@aol.com" moemahood@aol.com selfemployedhealth
Date: Wed Oct 17, 2007 8:38 pm ((PDT))

doreenchui <doreenchui@yeos.com> wrote:
What is ideal for the coat then? Any recommendation?

I started feeding more green tripe and that had a significant effect on both the coats and teeth of my two.

I feed whole green tripe not the ground kind -- not sure if that makes a difference on the teeth, but probably.

?Maureen

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Messages in this topic (10)
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2h. Fish oil capsules Re: [rawfeeding] Re: Flax seed oil
Posted by: "Pepper" pepperanne14@yahoo.com pepperanne14
Date: Wed Oct 17, 2007 8:38 pm ((PDT))

What kind of fish oil capsules? I read that cod liver oil is not a good oil to feed the dogs... is there a different kind?

Finster Boy <finster_boy1@yahoo.com> wrote:
I pierce a fish oil capsule and squeeze it on my dog's food. It's a
1,000 mg softgel. He's a companion quailty yorkie , and I get
comments on how shiny his coat is. Plus, his skin is in excellent
condition. No problems w/ fleas -I don't use the toxic frontline
stuff-and only minium ticks when they're "in season". I credit the
fish oil for this.

Cheers,
Pep

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Messages in this topic (10)
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3a. Re: New to raw feeding - loose poo
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:01 pm ((PDT))

"cwnsc" <cwells5@...> wrote:
>
I started him with a split chicken breast and he only ate
> the leg. I reserved the remaining portion for the next night and
he
> ate that along with the an entire split piece Monday.
*****
My guess is too much food. But I don't get where the leg is on a
split chicken breast. Ribs, yes. Skin, sure. Leg? Don't know that
I've ever seen a leg attached to a breast. Do you mean split
chicken, as in a half chicken? If so that would almost certainly be
too much food for now.

I'm assuming it's just the change-over from
> kibble to raw.
*****
Probably, and maybe too much fat as well as too much food. Sometimes
you have to feed several smaller meals, with the real touchy dogs.
Some dogs just can't do chicken. If what he had was loose stools (as
opposed to diarrhea) they're not harmful, just messy. If he really
did have diarrhea (as in not able to control his bowels; explosive
and watery) then it might be something else entirely. I recommend
you skip a meal, let his system settle down.

I hate to cut his fur as it
> makes his beauty
*****
I've never had to cut the pants off any of my goldens.

> I'm hoping the rawfeeding will help with his skin problems. He is
> currently on prednisone which I'm not fond of.
*****
Pred is a nasty bandaid, it is. Not a cure. IF his skin issues are
caused by food, then raw will fix it although it may take a while to
figure out what works. And if his problems aren't "just" diet,
moving him to a species appropriate diet can only help him fight back.

Chris O

Messages in this topic (4)
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4a. Raw Feeding and LGD
Posted by: "siamesekittens4u@aol.com" siamesekittens4u@aol.com jae91254
Date: Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:24 pm ((PDT))

I have a Great Pyrennes that guards my goats. She is a BIG rea fed girl.
She doesn't associate the "food" I give her as those goats she is in the field
with. (We have butchered several goats for the dogs, they get it dead, she has
never tried to take down one of the goats for herself).
Joyce

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Messages in this topic (5)
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5a. Anal glands prone to infection
Posted by: "Finster Boy" finster_boy1@yahoo.com finster_boy1
Date: Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:25 pm ((PDT))

Hi- I have a male 10 yr old yorkie who has been on raw feeding for
the past 3 yrs.
I feed him OMAS mix, freeze dried medallions,chicken & turkey necks-
which he will sometimes eat frozen. At night, he was used to eating a
little kibble to go to sleep, so now I've found the grain-free
dry "Instinct" to replace that.

Before switching to raw, he had a constant need to have his anal
glands expressed. Since switching to raw, that problem seemed to have
vanished.
This summer, he was symptomatic again and when the vet expressed the
glands, the fluid was infected. I treated him using alternative
methods instead of antibiotics. He seems to be prone to anal gland
infections. I suspect he has a problem again right now.
The vet is not onboard with raw feeding (are any of them?)
And he blames the diet for the anal gland back-up and infection.

I'm trying to get him to eat more fiber- canned pumpkin mixed w/
ground flax and some cottage cheese w/ acidolpholis added-just as
a "treat", but he has an aversion to veggies-in any form- Plus the
common yorkie- brat-picky eater thing.

Has anyone else experienced similar problems w/ the anal galnds? Any
suggestions for resolving this problem?
Thanx,
Patricia

Messages in this topic (3)
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5b. Re: Anal glands prone to infection
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Wed Oct 17, 2007 8:39 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Finster Boy" <finster_boy1@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi- I have a male 10 yr old yorkie who has been on raw feeding for
> the past 3 yrs.
> I feed him OMAS mix, freeze dried medallions,chicken &
> turkey necks-
> which he will sometimes eat frozen.

I'm sorry but I don't consider what you are feeding to be a raw
diet. It's an artificial raw diet. Feed him more real animal parts
and ditch the OMAS crap and freeze dried medallions(whatever those
are).

> At night, he was used to eating a
> little kibble to go to sleep, so now I've found the grain-free
> dry "Instinct" to replace that.

It's still garbage. Dump that also.

> when the vet expressed the
> glands, the fluid was infected. I treated him using alternative
> methods instead of antibiotics.

My suggestion is to skip the alternative stuff and give the poor dog
some antibiotics to get rid of the infection.

> He seems to be prone to anal gland infections.

I doubt he is so much "prone to" but I suspect he still has the
original infection.

> And he blames the diet for the anal gland back-up and infection.

I blame not using antibiotics to get rid of the infection.

> I'm trying to get him to eat more fiber- canned pumpkin mixed w/
> ground flax and some cottage cheese w/ acidolpholis added-just as
> a "treat",

Dang, no wonder the poor dog can't get over his problem. Dogs don't
need fiber or any other of that stuff you listed. Feed him some
boney animal parts to firm him up, give him some real meds to clear
up the infection and he will be ok.

> Has anyone else experienced similar problems w/ the anal galnds?

Yes, when my Goldens were on kibble they both had anal gland
problems. Once switched to a real raw diet (read real animal
parts), their problem went away never to return again.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (3)
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5c. Re: Anal glands prone to infection
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Wed Oct 17, 2007 8:45 pm ((PDT))

Patricia,

Anal glands generally are expressed when proper diet is fed. If he's been
eating mixes, medallions, ground foods, kibble (even grain-free), that could
be part of the problem. I would try feeding some nice whole foods...this
isn't going to be fixed by adding pumpkin, flax, cottage cheese or veggies.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Finster Boy" <finster_boy1@yahoo.com>

Messages in this topic (3)
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6.1. Re: Freecycle ad Was: Venison
Posted by: "Kathie Middlemiss" geekgirl717@gmail.com katjermid
Date: Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:49 pm ((PDT))

Delinda Harmon wrote:
>
> What kind of ads are you all putting on Freecycle? I always get
> lecture type
> of responses about raw feeding, and when I asked for freezer burned
> meats, I
> received a response asking why I'd feed my dogs something I won't eat.
>

This is what I posted:

Wanted: Meat scrap, trim and other discard. Cleaning your freezer?
Read this!

I make my own dog food and freezer burned or slightly "ripe" meat may
not be good for humans but it's just fine for dogs. I can use feet and
organs (especially liver and stomach/tripe) from beef, poultry, pork,
goat and lamb, and I also use fish (whole with bones and head) as well
as your typical chicken/turkey/pork/beef/lamb products so long as they
are unenhanced (flavor and nitrate free).

I have my own chest freezer, so I can handle large amounts so keep me in
mind if you are cleaning out your freezer/freezer storage.

Also if you are a hunter, I can make use of 'game' meat like
venison/rabbit/quail, etc. If you have stuff in the bottom of your
freezer from two seasons ago that you aren't going to cook, game meats
add wonderful flavor and variety! If you are having something butchered
(or are a butcher) and have trim (organs/tripe/meaty bones) I can make
use of that as well.

Please keep me in mind, very happy to come help you unload your
unwanted/unusable meats!

Hope this helps!

Kathie
Mom to: Jake, Max and Ruby

Messages in this topic (48)
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7a. Chicken? But she loves Beef! Help.....
Posted by: "tiffany" tiffanybrookeburns@sbcglobal.net divasfury
Date: Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:50 pm ((PDT))

Hello Everyone! Question.....

My husband and I have a Yorkie that we rescued, she's a 6 1/2 pound
love bug. We've been doing the Honest Kitchen formula and raw ground
beef from a whole foods market. But now that I know she doesn't
really need the grains, we're ditch'n the Honest Kitchen, and since
she actually prefers to eat the ground beef, we're excited to start
feeding her the "Raw only" tonight.

I see that most people recommend chicken first, and I know that it
needs to be more meat to bone ratio. So what part of the chicken
should I start her on? I heard a couple people say that if she's a
gulper to start with something bigger than her head... which she
would probably love. (She'd eat a whole flipp'n cow if we'd let her
at it.) Should I buy her a whole chicken and see what happens? Or
can I start with beef since we know she loves it?

I love this group!! Everyone is so helpful and informative, and I
love learning about "Raw Feeding".... does that make me a geek?

Thanks!

Messages in this topic (2)
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7b. Re: Chicken? But she loves Beef! Help.....
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Wed Oct 17, 2007 8:39 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "tiffany"
<tiffanybrookeburns@...> wrote:
>
> we're ditch'n the Honest Kitchen,

Cool ... good move. :)

> So what part of the chicken
> should I start her on?

You could try leg quarters or bone in breasts.

> Should I buy her a whole chicken and see what happens?

I'm not experienced with dogs that small but I would think something
a little smaller in the beginning would be better.

> Or
> can I start with beef since we know she loves it?

If she's been eating beef with no problem for a few weeks, you could
continue to feed it along with chicken. Eventually you want to get
a variety of meats into the diet.

> I love this group!!

Yeah, yeah, this group loves you too. LOL

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (2)
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8. Is it the eggs?
Posted by: "rlayt" rlayt@bresnan.net rlayt
Date: Wed Oct 17, 2007 8:38 pm ((PDT))

I gave both dogs a raw egg three days in a row. The next morning my
female BC/Huscky mix had bile vomit. I skipped a few days then gave
each an egg this afternoon. Late in the day she had a sloppy poop.
I am guessing I may have found a food allergy? I use cage-free eggs
from veggie fed chickens.

This is the first sign of any problems on the raw diet. They have
had chicken and turkey so far. Speaking of which, are turkeys bred
for extra-huge breast bones now? That sucker is a strong bone.

Tonight I started on beef ribs and had my doubts as to whether or
not my furry ones would actually chomp down the bone. I'm thinking
there is a piece of bone still around but not much of one.

I am not having any luck finding any good deals, like some of the
prices you all report, around here in my local grocery. Can someone
direct me to a group that is cooping on buying meat or tell me
something about finding anything? I go to the grocery every three
days and have hit different ones just in case but I never see
chicken for less than 1.19 a pound. Beef is much higher.

And, a dumb question here for sure, but why would my butcher have
pieces and parts here? Don't these chain stores like Albertsons,
Safeway etc get their meat already pre-cut and packaged? I keep
seeing advice to ask the butcher for things. Are they actually
getting whole animals? Legs? Rib-cages? What is actually going in
the back door? LOL.

Sorry if these are dumb things to ask. My dogs are really loving
this new way of eating and I want to keep it up, in spite of some
negative reactions. The trainer at class told me dogs shouldn't get
raw because the vet told her 1. Someone who fed raw got bitten by
their dog and got blood poisoning from it, 2. Dogs have evolved
beyond eating raw now.

Robin

Messages in this topic (1)
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9a. Re: Restrictive diet questions
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Wed Oct 17, 2007 8:38 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sandrea" <misssweetpeas@...>
wrote:
>
> MODERATORS NOTE:SIGN YOUR MAILS!!!!!!!
>
>
>
>
>
> I have been raw feeding my crew since last March and the first food
> recall. I have three dogs and three cats. My dogs are:
>
> 1. Greta, 60 pound female bernese mountain dog
> 2. Cliff, 100 pound male great pyrenees dog
> 3. Louie, 26 pound mutt
>
> My dogs are currently eating primarily chicken. They eat the meat,
> the bones, and the fat. When eating only chicken they do just
> fine. Anytime I add some other food to their repertoire, even just
> small amounts, I get liquid diarrhea in the house on the rugs.
What
> does seem to work is an occassional fish treat, such as a smelt
> each, or an ocassional chicken liver as a treat. They all seem to
> do best having bone with every meal as opposed to some bony meals
> and some all meat meals. They also seem to do best with
appropriate
> sized meals as opposed to eating a large meaty bone with tons of
> meat and less bone for a meal and then a lesser amount of food for
> the next meal. They are fed once a day.
>
> When I say they don't do well on the other foods, I mean that they
> are having liquid runny stools. I seem to have the mix of bone and
> meat down fine with the chicken. They do okay with ocassional lamb
> although that is pretty pricy. Beef seems to go right through them
> although if I give a beef rib or two as a supplement they do okay
as
> long as it is once in a week not more often than that. I have
tried
> adding spleen and beef liver without luck. They seemed to do well
> on beef heart but I only found it one time at the very beginning of
> our raw feeding program. I have fed chicken hearts as a meal and
if
> I give some bone too they can do this once in a while.
>
> My vet is all in favor of a raw diet with the exception of pork as
> she says trichinosis has not been totally eradicated yet. I have
> fed pork at the beginning and they love it but unless I can find
> some sort of bone to balance out the large amounts of meat on the
> roast I get diarrhea.
>
> My vet at this point is saying to supplement the dogs with a multi-
> vitamin (Natural Pet Daily Canine Multi-Vitamin, Solid Gold or
Nupro
> multi-vitamin). I have only ever added one item at a time and I
> always go back to the all chicken until stools are stable again and
> then try something else again. We somehow always end up back at
> chicken.
>
> I am open to any advice I can get. I am quite happy feeding raw
> unless a diet such as they seem to tolerate is less healthy than a
> quality kibble.
> Thanks for the help.
> Sandrea

> So, my question is two fold:
> 1. Why can't they tolerate anything but chicken without diarrhea?

I don't know but I have some suggestions. First, try switching to 2
smaller meals a day. Try adding a different protein source one or
two meals a week. Not a whole meal of the different meat but mabye
1/4 or 1/2 the meal something new.

It's ok to feed pork. Your vet is wrong assuming you live in the
US, Canada, or Australia and assuming you are buying your pork at a
grocery store. Pork would be a good thing to attempt to add to the
diet. It digests easily and you could get a picnic roast or Boston
butt roast and cut chunks off it to feed. The Boston butt roast has
a nice bone to chew on also. Just a few chunks with a meal once or
twice a week. GRADUALLY increase the amount until you are feeding
whole meals once a week or so of pork or turkey or whatever. Only
try introducking ONE thing at a time. Don't switch to a third meat
until they are eating the second with no problems.

> 2. Are they okay just eating a diet of chicken getting perhaps 2-3
> chicken livers a week.

Probably so but it would be better to have two or three more
different meats you could occasionally feed. I feed chicken or
turkey 4 or 5 days a week. The other two or three days they get a
variety of other stuff.

The
> vet put him on antibiotics last Friday for what she terms "garbage
> gut" and he has been just fine since.

"Garbage gut" means, "I have no clue what the problem is but I will
sell you some meds and MAYBE he will be better in a few days."

Good luck with adding new meats to their diet. After typing this
post and as I think more about your dog's problems, the more I
wonder what you could be doing wrong. I don't see three unrelated
dogs all having exactly the same digestive problems because of the
same physical problem with each dog. There has to be more to it but
I don't know what it might be. Something else is making your dogs
sick. Maybe its the way you are feeding ... maybe you are feeding
too much volume ... maybe there is too much excitement around when
they are eating ... maybe they are being hovered over while they eat
something new ... maybe they feel more tension from you when they
eat something new ... i have no idea but I don't see it as being
something wrong with each dog. What is different when they eat a
new meat?

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (2)
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10.1. Re: Newbie
Posted by: "Diane Young" dkyoung63@yahoo.com dkyoung63
Date: Wed Oct 17, 2007 8:40 pm ((PDT))

I disagree about the veggies, kelp, etc. Some of you here feed a prey diet, but that isn't the only raw diet and those who feed veggies and other stuff like yogurt shouldn't keep being told that the way they're feeding is wrong. I have had perfectly healthy dogs with feeding the other stuff and variety is not a bad thing. Dogs eat grass and leaves when you take them outside, and my dogs have all LOVED apples.

The only things I know that absolutely should be avoided even as part of a raw diet are chocolate and onions, and there is some debate about tomatoes so I'm careful with them. Flaxseed oil is just as good as fish oil for Omegas in the diet, and is included as part of the mixes I feed my dog, which are made by a breeder in OH who has been raw feeding for most of her life.

~Diane Young

You do not have to do any of that makework nonsense except feed meat,
bones and organs. No above ground veggies, no below ground veggies,
no leafy greens, no ground nuts, no kelp, no alfalfa, no supplements
at all (except fish body oil maybe).
Chris O

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10.2. Re: Newbie
Posted by: "Diane Young" dkyoung63@yahoo.com dkyoung63
Date: Wed Oct 17, 2007 8:41 pm ((PDT))

I agree, I feed in crates as well since I have found that the dogs like to drag it around the house and I don't like cleaning it off of the carpet or furniture. A squirt with a cleaner containing bleach and a paper towel cleans the crate right up and makes my life easier.

Diane Young

Carol Dunster <cedunster@centurytel.net> wrote: On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 15:57:34 -0000, you wrote:

> Where to feed the dog in our house,
>whether to use a rug or mat or some other idea, what to use for clean up, what about wiping
>the dogs paws or beard....tips?

My four Silkys have eaten in their crates all their lives. I find
that very convenient.

~ Carol
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Carol Dunster
cedunster@centurytel.net

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10.3. Re: Newbie
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Wed Oct 17, 2007 8:55 pm ((PDT))

If you are feeding a carnivore, prey model *is* the only appropriate way to
feed. Variety when it comes to body parts and animals is great, but adding
inappropriate foods such as yogurt and veggies, uhuh! Doesn't work.
Carnivores require meat, bones and organs!

Mixes are not appropriate...flax definitely isn't. The essential
ingredients in flax aren't even available without being converted, a process
that is very inefficient. There is no comparison between flax and fish
oils.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Diane Young" <dkyoung63@yahoo.com>

> I disagree about the veggies, kelp, etc. Some of you here feed a prey
diet, but that isn't the only raw diet and those who feed veggies and other
stuff like yogurt shouldn't keep being told that the way they're feeding is
wrong. I have had perfectly healthy dogs with feeding the other stuff and
variety is not a bad thing. Dogs eat grass and leaves when you take them
outside, and my dogs have all LOVED apples.
>
> The only things I know that absolutely should be avoided even as part of a
raw diet are chocolate and onions, and there is some debate about tomatoes
so I'm careful with them. Flaxseed oil is just as good as fish oil for
Omegas in the diet, and is included as part of the mixes I feed my dog,
which are made by a breeder in OH who has been raw feeding for most of her
life.

Messages in this topic (186)
________________________________________________________________________

10.4. Re: Newbie
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Wed Oct 17, 2007 9:22 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Diane!
You can feed your dogs however you like.

Anyone can.

But this list's stated purpose is to support and promote a species
appropriate raw whole prey model diet for the people who come here for
education and help.

If you don't agree with the purpose of this group, to give approved advice
and encouragement to people honestly looking for an optimum diet for their
dogs, why are you here, hassling volunteers and confusing newbies?

And, how can you tell if your dogs *are* perfectly healthy and that there is
no room for improvement, if you haven't given whole prey model, and only
whole prey model a real trial?!

Please read the information on the list owner's website on raw feeding;
http://www.rawlearning.com/index.html
http://www.rawlearning.com/rawfaq.html
http://www.rawlearning.com/supplementmyths.html
http://www.rawlearning.com/premaderaw.html

Feed Pets Raw Food

Wednesday, October 17, 2007

[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12173

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