[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12177

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1.1. Re: Tripe
From: Laura Atkinson
1.2. Re: Tripe
From: debby lappat

2a. Re: problem, ugggggggggg
From: ginny wilken
2b. Re: problem, ugggggggggg
From: Denise Strother
2c. Re: problem, ugggggggggg
From: scalla70

3.1. Re: Green tripe
From: lauraanimal1

4.1. Re: Newbie
From: Denise Strother
4.2. Re: Newbie
From: Morledzep@aol.com
4.3. Re: Newbie
From: redkeds@comcast.net
4.4. Re: Newbie
From: T Smith
4.5. Re: Newbie
From: costrowski75
4.6. Re: Newbie
From: Denise Strother
4.7. ADMIN/Re: Newbie
From: costrowski75

5a. Re: Fish oil capsules Re: [rawfeeding] Re: Flax seed oil
From: Pepper

6a. Re: Anal glands prone to infection- nighttime feeding
From: Denise Strother

7a. Re: Restrictive diet questions
From: Sandrea Kornblum

8a. ADMIN/Re: Anal glands prone to infection-treating the gland..Patrici
From: costrowski75

9.1. Venison
From: lauraanimal1

10a. Re: Feed timing for best poop control
From: caroline gebbie

11.1. Tripe in a can Re: [rawfeeding] Re: Tripe
From: Pepper
11.2. Re: Tripe in a can Re: [rawfeeding] Re: Tripe
From: Morledzep@aol.com

12. bony parts
From: Morledzep@aol.com

13. Russell
From: Renate

14a. Re: picking out bones
From: Felicia Kost

15a. Re: Kitten
From: Giselle

Messages
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1.1. Re: Tripe
Posted by: "Laura Atkinson" llatkinson@gmail.com lauraatkinson2002
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 1:55 pm ((PDT))

And, if you're feeding a dog with compromised kidney or diagnosed kidney
disease, it can be a wonderful item to use in managing ca:ph balances.

On 10/18/07, costrowski75 <Chriso75@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
> Those who have access to green tripe should consider it a useful part
> of the diet, no less useful than chicken backs. If one has the
> interest, wherewithal and tolerance (I do not find it disgusting),
> green tripe is not without its purpose.
> Chris O
>

--
Laura A
Kaos Siberians http://www.kaossiberians.com
Forget love...I'd rather fall in chocolate.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (224)
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1.2. Re: Tripe
Posted by: "debby lappat" dlappat@yahoo.com dlappat
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:04 pm ((PDT))

MODERATOR'S NOTE: PLEASE TRIM AND SIGN YOUR MESSAGES!

So Bill what do you feed and what do you feel is a super food? thanks !!

costrowski75 <Chriso75@AOL.COM> wrote: "carnesbill" <carnesw@...> wrote:
>
> Green tripe is not a super food nor is it particularly nutritious
> nor nearly valuable enough to go to the touble, expense, and discust
> one has to go through to buy it and feed it. :)
*****
And equally, chicken backs are not super food and are not particularly
nutritious. They are worth no more effort--and no less effort--than
green tripe requires.

Those who have access to green tripe should consider it a useful part
of the diet, no less useful than chicken backs. If one has the
interest, wherewithal and tolerance (I do not find it disgusting),
green tripe is not without its purpose.
Chris O

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Messages in this topic (224)
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2a. Re: problem, ugggggggggg
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 1:55 pm ((PDT))

On Oct 18, 2007, at 12:18 PM, Denise Strother wrote:

> If you look at the 80% meat, 10% bone, 10% organs with 5% of that
> being liver, then 5% of their total diet should be liver.

Well, I think your point got across, Denise, but I suspect you meant
to say that, of the 10% which is organs, 50% of that, or half the
organ quota, should be liver. This equates, then, to 5% of the total
diet. Right?

ginny and Tomo

All stunts performed without a net!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (10)
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2b. Re: problem, ugggggggggg
Posted by: "Denise Strother" denisestrother@yahoo.com denisestrother
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 3:24 pm ((PDT))

Right. Amazing what a difference a missing 0 can make. Denise

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, ginny wilken <gwilken@...> wrote:

> Well, I think your point got across, Denise, but I suspect you
meant
> to say that, of the 10% which is organs, 50% of that, or half the
> organ quota, should be liver. This equates, then, to 5% of the
total
> diet. Right?
>
>
> ginny and Tomo
>
>
>
> All stunts performed without a net!
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Messages in this topic (10)
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2c. Re: problem, ugggggggggg
Posted by: "scalla70" tanbrin@rogers.com scalla70
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 4:58 pm ((PDT))

Thanks everyone! That gives me a better idea!
Judy

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Denise Strother"
<denisestrother@...> wrote:
>
> If you look at the 80% meat, 10% bone, 10% organs with 5% of that
> being liver, then 5% of their total diet should be liver. I do not
> weigh my dogs meals, or plan them very far ahead. I just feed
> liver ... sometimes. Sometimes once a week, sometimes every couple
> of weeks. Or any variation that includes at least once a month. I
> might have skipped a month somewhere though. Some people are more
> comfortable with smaller amounts more frequently. Some dogs don't
do
> well (gastronomically speaking) with whole meal amounts of liver,
> some do. You just have to find what works for you and your dog(s),
> but it should average out to about 5% of the dogs overall diet over
> time. Denise
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "scalla70" <tanbrin@> wrote:
>
> > How often does a dog need to have liver? per week, per month?
>

Messages in this topic (10)
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3.1. Re: Green tripe
Posted by: "lauraanimal1" lauraanimal1@yahoo.com lauraanimal1
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:01 pm ((PDT))

I think it is worth it simpley for the fact my dog lives is, it's raw
and she is happy to get it an loves me all the more when she gets it.

Laura & Ishta

Messages in this topic (43)
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4.1. Re: Newbie
Posted by: "Denise Strother" denisestrother@yahoo.com denisestrother
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:02 pm ((PDT))

Diane,
Chris is right. Bleach can cause respiratory irritation and vinegar,
hydrogen peroxide and/or vodka work as well without the possible
problems. Denise

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "costrowski75" <Chriso75@...> wrote:
Diane Young <dkyoung63@> wrote:
A squirt with a cleaner containing bleach and a paper towel cleans the
crate right up and makes my life easier.
> *****
There's hardly a sensible reason to rely on bleach when something less
invasive like a vinegar or hydrogren peroxide spritz will work just as
well. Especially in an enclosed space like a crate.
> Chris O

Messages in this topic (207)
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4.2. Re: Newbie
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:17 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 10/18/2007 1:02:46 PM Pacific Standard Time,
denisestrother@yahoo.com writes:

Chris is right. Bleach can cause respiratory irritation and vinegar,
hydrogen peroxide and/or vodka work as well without the possible
problems.

Denise.. step away from my vodka.. that's MINE.. it's NOT for cleaning..

Catherine R.

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

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Messages in this topic (207)
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4.3. Re: Newbie
Posted by: "redkeds@comcast.net" redkeds@comcast.net redkeds1
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:52 pm ((PDT))

Sorry - if I had a vodka/water spritz, I wouldn't CARE about the cleaning....

Maggie, Rufus, Oliver and Mickey
>
For rigorous cleaning up I use a vodka/water spritz (vodka is cheaper
than Everclear) because for me the smell of vinegar is inextricably
related to food. Prolly good old soap and water would clean a crate's
insides just fine.
Chris O

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Messages in this topic (207)
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4.4. Re: Newbie
Posted by: "T Smith" coldbeach@gmail.com lhasaspots
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:52 pm ((PDT))

I've always used bleach, always will. Best disinfectant/sterilizer IMO. We
bleach everything once a week, all the floors...walls, crates, counters, etc
& it is done during the day on any day if needed.
I've not had problems with it & especially use it for the counter tops or
cutting boards that raw meat is on.
Trina

On 10/18/07, Denise Strother <denisestrother@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Diane,
> Chris is right. Bleach can cause respiratory irritation and vinegar,
> hydrogen peroxide and/or vodka work as well without the possible
> problems. Denise
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (207)
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4.5. Re: Newbie
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:57 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, redkeds@... wrote:
>
> Sorry - if I had a vodka/water spritz, I wouldn't CARE about the
cleaning....
*****
Yes, that's been said before. When I decided to quit trying with the
vinegar and went to Beverages&More for Everclear, one of the associates
told me to use the vodka instead, that lots of people use it for
cleaning.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (207)
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4.6. Re: Newbie
Posted by: "Denise Strother" denisestrother@yahoo.com denisestrother
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 3:24 pm ((PDT))

Good for what ails ya! Not for cleaning, but makes you not care if
you've cleaned or not. I'm backing away slowly and careful not to make
any sudden moves. Denise

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Morledzep@... wrote:
Denise.. step away from my vodka.. that's MINE.. it's NOT for
cleaning..

Catherine R.

Messages in this topic (207)
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4.7. ADMIN/Re: Newbie
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 3:29 pm ((PDT))

I think it's time to take the cleaning product thread, with all its
quite varied off-shoots, to Rawchat where things OT-ish may discussed
more freely. No more vinegar, vodka or bleach on Rawfeeding.
Chris O
Mod Squad

Messages in this topic (207)
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5a. Re: Fish oil capsules Re: [rawfeeding] Re: Flax seed oil
Posted by: "Pepper" pepperanne14@yahoo.com pepperanne14
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:03 pm ((PDT))

Thank you Tina :) That was useful to know... I won't be scared off of cod liver anymore lol.
Pep

Tina Berry <k9baron@gmail.com> wrote: "What kind of fish oil capsules? I read that cod liver oil is not a good oil
to feed the dogs... is there a different kind?"

Cod liver oil isn't bad; it's that you can overdose on the Vitamin A & D in
cod liver oil capsules - it's better to give natural vit A & D in raw liver;
I gave cod liver oil capsules once a week when I ran out of liver.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

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Cheers,
Pep

---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (17)
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6a. Re: Anal glands prone to infection- nighttime feeding
Posted by: "Denise Strother" denisestrother@yahoo.com denisestrother
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:05 pm ((PDT))

Patricia,
You can fix this problem easily. Don't feed your dog on a schedule. If
you feed him at different times every day his stomach won't start
producing digestive juices at the time it expects to have a meal. Also
it sounds as if you are feeding at least 2X's a day. Barring a medical
reason, there is no reason to feed a grown dog more than once a day.
Denise

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Finster Boy" <finster_boy1@...>
wrote:
I only give him a little, little at night. It seems that he needs a
small amount of food (and something raw will necessitate a b m in the
middle of the night!)in his system for the night time. Otherwise- he
will spit up bile in the morning, be nauseous so he won't want his
chicken neck, then he's off schedule which means I have to leave him
w/my handicapped mother to deal with the raw food thing-which she
won't do. WOW! What a house of dominos I've created! I will look for
an alternative though, so thank-you for your information.
> Patricia.

Messages in this topic (12)
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7a. Re: Restrictive diet questions
Posted by: "Sandrea Kornblum" misssweetpeas@verizon.net sandreaelyse
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:05 pm ((PDT))

Thanks very much for the suggestions. I am going to try getting those
chicken backs and feed them with more of the meat only stuff as I think
that will help. And I will try just adding one protein at a time again
and see how we do. I also decided to change butchers because I simply
am not sure that my problem is not related to the meat I've been
getting. I bought some beef ribs this last order and they stunk when I
got them and were greenish tinged. I took them back and got rabbit
instead. But with the dogs all have this liquid stool stuff with this
last order I think that maybe the butcher is not storing my meat orders
properly. I called and asked about the chicken but he said no people
had complained about it. I pick up my new meat tomorrow and I've been
using some from the grocery store these last few days. Hate to chuck
what I've got but if it is the meat then that's that.
Sandrea

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Messages in this topic (4)
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8a. ADMIN/Re: Anal glands prone to infection-treating the gland..Patrici
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:08 pm ((PDT))

Please take to another list any anal gland discussion that is not
directly related to raw feeding. Both RawChat and DogHealth come to
mind. Thank you.
Chris O
Mod Team

Messages in this topic (2)
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9.1. Venison
Posted by: "lauraanimal1" lauraanimal1@yahoo.com lauraanimal1
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:14 pm ((PDT))

I put this up on my freecycle

Hello all I have a Dog that is very allergic to proccessed foods so
her vet put her on what is called a "RAW" diet. This is not cheep. So
i
am look for anything that you might be getting rid of meat wise. be it
beef, rabbit, wild game, pork, chicken and etc. if it is meat and raw
that would be great. It is ok if it is a little bit freezer burned so
if your cleaning out your freezer think of me please.

Laura

P/S I am willing to sign something stating this is not ment for Human
consumption!

I got a few replies to it as well as a few packages of wild game, and
I never got any negitive geed back or comments. However I am trying
the one that was posted on here and see how that one does. Changing
it up a bit I think helps too. So thanks for the other post and
wording. will see if that helps out better, so thanks for that post!!!

Laura & Ishta

>
> What kind of ads are you all putting on Freecycle? I always get
lecture type
> of responses about raw feeding, and when I asked for freezer burned
meats, I
> received a response asking why I'd feed my dogs something I won't
eat.
> Always negative responses on feeding my dogs raw meats, and as of
yet have
> not received a bite of meat or a positive response.

>

Messages in this topic (51)
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10a. Re: Feed timing for best poop control
Posted by: "caroline gebbie" caz320ml@yahoo.com caz320ml
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:22 pm ((PDT))

Hi

We have been raw feeding for about 3 weeks, lots of success and no
problems, but I have a disabled dog.

Bonnie is an 11 year old boxer with CDRM, like MS sort of, she has
very little use of her back legs. She had started to poop
occasionally at night before we went raw reducing her evening meal and incereasing breakfast seemed to help and at first the raw seemed
to stop the problem.

I know this is part of the illness but just wondered, I feed twice a
day a larger meal in the morning and a small meal aroud 3.30pm she
is walked at 4.30 and again before we go to bed between 9 and
10.30pm.

I want to feed twice a day, she loves her food and is too used to
this to change now, which is the best way round, big meal am or big
meal pm any ideas?

Thanks for all the help, I have been reading all the mails for a
while now.

Caroline, Bonnie and Londo

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11.1. Tripe in a can Re: [rawfeeding] Re: Tripe
Posted by: "Pepper" pepperanne14@yahoo.com pepperanne14
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:23 pm ((PDT))

Hi,
I was wondering if the green tripe in a can that I use is good enough.... I couldn't find green tripe, but at the natural pet food store(they sell raw bones, patties, meats, and premium foods) they had cans of green tripe dog food. It's called Tripett www.tripett.com

I buy the green beef tripe... but because it's canned it does get heated to seal the can but it says in the FAQ section that they did analysis on it and it kept it's nutritional value.... I know totally raw is best but is this better than no tripe at all?

Thanks,
Anna

carnesbill <carnesw@bellsouth.net> wrote: --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee Lee" <rlee@...> wrote:
>
> Actually, it's quite nutritious stuff. According to analysis at
> greentripe.com

Greentripe.com sells the stuff. Of course they are going to make
them look good just as kibble companies make kibble look good to the
untrained eye.

Cheers,
Pep

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11.2. Re: Tripe in a can Re: [rawfeeding] Re: Tripe
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:27 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 10/18/2007 1:23:36 PM Pacific Standard Time,
pepperanne14@yahoo.com writes:

I buy the green beef tripe... but because it's canned it does get heated to
seal the can but it says in the FAQ section that they did analysis on it and it
kept it's nutritional value.... I know totally raw is best but is this
better than no tripe at all?

Anna,

IMO.. no. I would rather feed no tripe at all than feed canned. It's that
simple. and just so you understand where i'm coming from, i spend about $200
every 3 months on raw green tripe.

Catherine R.

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12. bony parts
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:31 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 10/18/2007 4:37:38 AM Pacific Standard Time,
susrob061174@yahoo.com writes:

Ask the butcher if he can order chicken backs & necks, turkey &
necks, by the case. I get mine for .24 to .34$ $ a lb.

Susanne,

i'm sure i'm missing something here.. chicken backs and necks for great
danes? my great dane puppy makes whole chickens look like a snack.. and backs and
necks by themselves are far too boney unless you're providing more meat
somewhere else..

Catherine R.

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13. Russell
Posted by: "Renate" renate.tideswell@gmail.com tideswell_renate
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 3:25 pm ((PDT))

Hi again, Russell is my foster with the seizures. He just will not eat his
potassium bromide. Fights against it with all his might. I've wasted most
of the day researching dietary help for epilepsy. I really think animals
have a bit of sense and if this meek little dog is so against his meds there
has to be a reason. So I'm going to put him on raw in the morning - I
usually feed him at night, but all my own raw guys are fed in the morning,
so he'll just have to join them and fast for a bit. No more meds. Is there
anything extra I need to do to help his seizures, or just switch him over
and hope for the best?

--
Renate
'The more I learn about men, the more I love my Shih Tzu'

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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14a. Re: picking out bones
Posted by: "Felicia Kost" saphiradane@yahoo.com saphiradane
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 4:13 pm ((PDT))

mandarini_gg <amanda.gasparini@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Mandi, glad im not alone here. I was hoping this was a one time thing. But its not and it only occurs with chicken! The freezing idea did not work.... would not touch it. After about 7 days I just moved on. The mushed chicken pieces were becoming difficult to pick up and they were disgusting. They moved on to the cat. The problem is still not solved. Whats realy frustrating is she loses weight every time she gets chicken and I can't afford to skip out on the cheapiest protein source available right now! Oh well, keep trying. Thanks Felicia

My Dane does the EXACT same thing, and she does it only with chicken.
She picks out the bones until the entire 1/2 bird I gave her is
mangled (but still in 1 piece) and lying in the grass.

Mandi

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15a. Re: Kitten
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 4:39 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Felicia!
I agree with Andrea!
Links to online whole prey vendors;

http://www.rodentpro.com/products.asp

http://www.prey4pets.com/servlet/StoreFront

http://www.hare-today.com/index.php?cPath=23

www.taylorpondfarm*s*.com/ <http://www.taylorpondfarms.com/>
Its also helpful to offer cats and kittens a LOT of protein and organ
variety frequently. It helps with the initiation to raw, so they can pick
and choose between what is most appealing to them at first. It also helps to
keep them from fixating on one single type of protein or organ. Small bits
scattered on a plastic place mat at a meal can offer variety and choice.
Don't forget bones! Small whole prey can offer small, easy to consume bones.
Whole small fish, like smelt is good, and rabbit, Game Hens, or just the
gristly bits off large bones.

Some information on cats;

*African Wildcat*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felis_silvestris_lybica

About 10,000 years ago, some Felis silvestris lybica individuals were
domesticated in the Middle East. Modern domestic cats are derived from at
least five "Mitochondrial Eves". None of the other subspecies of Felis
silvestris contributed to the domestic breed, and many of those subspecies
own mtDNA is being swamped by interbreeding with feral cats.

The African Wildcat eats primarily mice, rats and other small mammals. If
the situation permits, it also eats birds, reptiles, amphibians and insects.

*Cat*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat

A skilled predator, the cat is known to hunt over 1,000 species for food.

Cats can be fussy eaters, possibly due to the mutation which caused their
ancestor to lose the ability to taste sugars. Unlike most mammals, cats can
voluntarily starve themselves indefinitely despite being presented with
palatable food, even a food which they had previously readily consumed. This
can happen when the vomeronasal or Jacobson's organ becomes accustomed to a
specific food, or if the cats are spoiled by their owners, in which case the
cat will reject any food that does not fit the pattern it is expecting. It
is also known for cats to merely become bored with their given food and
decide to stop eating until they are tempted into eating again. Although it
is extremely rare for a cat to deliberately starve itself to the point of
injury, the sudden loss of weight can cause a fatal condition called hepatic
lipidosis, a liver dysfunction which causes pathological loss of appetite
and reinforces the starvation, which can lead to death within as little as
48 hours.

*http://www.blakkatz.com/dryfood.html*

The domestic cat's stomach, which is quite small, has two purposes. It holds
the food and it is not necessary to hold a lot of food because the natural
food of the cat is nutrient dense. Small wild cats hunt more frequently than
their larger cousins because their prey is smaller.

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawcat/

rawfedcats.org
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

On 10/18/07, Andrea <poketmouse45@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> No real special considerations for cats as opposed to dogs other than
> the fact that lots of cats are extremely picky.
>

<snip>
>

With whole prey you don't have to worry at all about getting
> it right, because everything you need is in there.
>

<snip>
>
> Andrea
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com <rawfeeding%40yahoogroups.com>, Felicia
> Kost <saphiradane@...> wrote:
>
> Can I feed the kitten mini versions of what I feed my dog? Dog gets a
> basic variety of whatever I can get! Do kittens have any special
> nutrition requirements? I was wondering about taurine?
>
>
>

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Messages in this topic (14)
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