[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11909

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Deer meat
From: Tina Berry

2a. Re: Quantity to feed?
From: Andrea

3a. Re: BONE
From: mgitaville
3b. Re: BONE
From: rosey031801
3c. Re: BONE
From: Casey Post

4a. Need help!!
From: mgn_moore
4b. Re: Need help!!
From: Laurie Swanson
4c. Re: Need help!!
From: Nathalie Poulin

5a. TOO lean of meals?
From: Denise
5b. Re: TOO lean of meals?
From: Tina Berry
5c. Re: TOO lean of meals?
From: Denise

6a. Re: Nibbling on grazing animals faeces?
From: Maggie Smith
6b. Re: Nibbling on grazing animals faeces?
From: Nathalie Poulin

7a. Re: My dog is gaining weight but doesn't need to – help!
From: lmclaen

8a. Re: weight loss
From: natgs

9a. Re: guilt and anger
From: Michael Moore
9b. Re: guilt and anger
From: Tina Berry

10. New Here - Looking to start feeding a raw diet to my yorkie.
From: kalina82

11a. What are beef "finger ribs?" Yes or No
From: Pamela Picard
11b. Re: What are beef "finger ribs?" Yes or No
From: Casey Post

12a. MOTHER
From: Denise
12b. Re: MOTHER
From: Sonja
12c. Re: MOTHER
From: mousegirls

13a. lamb neck bones
From: Sue

14. Bones From Ram
From: Chrissy

Messages
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1a. Re: Deer meat
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:08 pm ((PDT))

Hi Tracy, I just finished feeding my pack for 9 months 100% deer meat and
some deer bones. Now we're on whole chickens as I'm out of deer until
hunting season starts. IMO it is the healthiest thing to feed them if
available (any wild game, deer, turkey, elk, antelope, etc.) Lucky you to
have scored!!! You can feed all parts as often as you want (organs weekly
or small amounts daily) but no leg bones (these are teeth breakers) but mine
devour the rib cages, hips and necks.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

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Messages in this topic (3)
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2a. Re: Quantity to feed?
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:09 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "harrynala" <michelle@...> wrote:
> I have gone a few days with giving her ALOT more, and she eats it
> all, looks like a weeble for a while then promptly throws up!

Ahh, yes, Geiger has been known to have eyes bigger than his stomach
as well. He gets excited about some kind of meal and tries to eat
the whole thing which doesn't work out well for him. After a couple
of times he learned where his stopping point is. I have a very
high "ick" threshold so if he eats too much and kicks some back out
it goes into a baggie for next time.

> With her still only being 8 months old, I had understood that it
> was unwise to feed too much as their tums are still quite small, or
> does that only apply to really young pups?

From what I can tell, splitting the meals for pups is done so their
bowels can digest things properly. At about six months Geiger
started eating a day's worth of food at once without ill effects, so
I stopped offering him the second meal. If your girl can digest the
food without getting loose stools or returning to sender, she should
be fine to eat once a day at 8mo. However, if she upchucks at the
prospect of eating a whole day's worth in one sitting, it's best to
stick with two meals for now.

Andrea

Messages in this topic (4)
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3a. Re: BONE
Posted by: "mgitaville" mgitaville@hotmail.com mgitaville
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:10 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "abooot99" <abooot99@...> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I have been feeding my dog raw since May or June of this year and
> recently for the past few weeks has been refusing alot of his meals
> including chicken which he ate well at first. He now wants nothing to
> do with chicken and so given that, I am having a hard time getting
> bone into him. He doesnt love turkey either. I did at the beginning
> purchase bravo ground lamb with bone and he does eat that but I dont
> feed it every meal. As is he doesnt eat right away the food I do give
> him.
... What do you think?
> Amanda
>

*****I think this sounds more behavorial, but b/c bone is certainly an
issue I would suggest checking his teeth. Do they all look as they
should....no cracks, chips, etc? I would start here before moving to
the next step.
Marguerita

Messages in this topic (4)
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3b. Re: BONE
Posted by: "rosey031801" rosey031801@sbcglobal.net rosey031801
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:38 pm ((PDT))

My dog was very picky at first too. He didn't seem to "like" it. I had
to season it and sometimes even sear the boneless meat to enhance the
flavor. After he gets the hang of it you will not have to do any of
this. I had to get tough, even though my dog is underwieght, I had to
pick it up after 20 mins and not offer anything else for a few hours.
Finaly I got to where I offered it twice a day and if he didn't eat
it , oh well. Now he eats almost anything I give him. It is ok to feed
boneless for a while till he gets used to it. Don't wait too long to
get tough. He will benefit from it in the long run. Good luck. Oh my
dog didn't like fish either, now he will eat canned fish once in a
while. He is fine. We can't be perfect. Any meat is better than
kibble!!!
Cheryl

Messages in this topic (4)
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3c. Re: BONE
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 4:55 pm ((PDT))

> I have been feeding my dog raw since May or June of this year and
> recently for the past few weeks has been refusing alot of his meals
> including chicken which he ate well at first. <snip> He does like eggs and
> canned
> mackeral, sardines, salmon.....what do I do. He is getting his annual
> vet exam with fecal and urinalyisis on friday... What do you think?
**************

Amanda,

Well, not knowing his age (possible hormonal issue?), I would have the vet
look at things like oral health (if he's got a bad tooth or any kind of
pain, it'll make him reluctant to eat), ears (we had one member whose dog
stopped eating - turned out the dog had a very deep ear infection that was
causing pain with any kind of chewing), and nose ( I had a cat with a sinus
infection once - he stopped eating because he couldn't smell anything that
wasn't doctored up with canned fish or something similarly stinky).

Always rule out a medical issue before you start thinking that it's
behavioral!

Casey

Messages in this topic (4)
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4a. Need help!!
Posted by: "mgn_moore" mgn_moore@yahoo.com mgn_moore
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:14 pm ((PDT))

Hi all! I am a newbie and I am trying to research the raw diet and am
seriously considering switching. My 3 year old boxer bitch has terrible
allergies and I am spending loads of money on allergy serums and "high
quality" kibble that the vet recommends. Someone suggested the raw diet
to me and thinks that my girl may be allergic to yeast. I have read
through several websites and have taken pages of notes but I still have
questions.
1. When feeding a chicken wing, feed it to her whole? And how many
before she gets sick?
2. Am I correct in reading that you blend vegetables?
3. After blending veggies, is it okay to mix with meat?

Any suggestions would be fabulous!!

Messages in this topic (3)
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4b. Re: Need help!!
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 4:43 pm ((PDT))

Hi there,

You'll want bigger pieces than wings for your Boxer--wings can be
gulped whole. Try chicken quarters, halves, or even a whole bird
(you can feed part, remove it, and feed the rest the next day).
Shoot for 2-3% of your dog's ideal weight per day (if your dog weighs
50 lbs., that's 1 to 1.5 lbs./day) and adjust as necessary for
under/overweight, activity level, etc. Avoid meat that's been
enhanced/injected w/saline/broth, etc.--that can aggravate allergies.

You don't need veggies and since your dog has allergy-type issues,
I'd recommend avoiding them, in order to simplify the diet and reduce
potential problems (my dog's yeasty ears cleared up when I got rid of
the veggies).

Search the archives for more newbie info as well as allergies.

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "mgn_moore" <mgn_moore@...> wrote:
My 3 year old boxer bitch has terrible
> allergies

> 1. When feeding a chicken wing, feed it to her whole? And how many
> before she gets sick?
> 2. Am I correct in reading that you blend vegetables?
> 3. After blending veggies, is it okay to mix with meat?

Messages in this topic (3)
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4c. Re: Need help!!
Posted by: "Nathalie Poulin" poulin_nathalie@yahoo.ca poulin_nathalie
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:15 pm ((PDT))

I don't know where you got your research from, but it's actually even simpler than that.
Wings by themselves are way too bony for a 3 year old boxer bitch. It would be better to feed her an entire chicken. Let her eat as much as she can and then put it in the fridge until next meal.
Most people start with chicken because it is the most easily digested meat. Once she gets the hang of it, you can add in some pork or beef (one at a time at first) to make sure that she is digesting it properly.
Dogs are carnivores, they don't need veggies. Some people give their dogs veggies as treats but it doesn't comprise the majority of their daily food intake.
Raw prey model is awesome because you can just grab a pork roast and toss it to the dog. No blending, mashing, cooking, or mixing.
Also, from many of the posts that I've read here (you should check the archives) a lot of the people who have dogs with yeast problems almost always seem to go away when they get rid of the veggies.

Also, the BEST site to take a look at is

www.rawfed.com/myths
it will really help you figure stuff out.

Good luck and let us know how it turns out!

Nathalie

mgn_moore <mgn_moore@yahoo.com> wrote:
1. When feeding a chicken wing, feed it to her whole? And how many
before she gets sick?
2. Am I correct in reading that you blend vegetables?
3. After blending veggies, is it okay to mix with meat?

Any suggestions would be fabulous!!

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Messages in this topic (3)
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5a. TOO lean of meals?
Posted by: "Denise" DeniseAndZac@gmail.com puresurrender
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:36 pm ((PDT))

Could I be giving my dog TOO lean of meals... so that he's losing weight on
his raw?????

Denise
--
~ Delight thyself in the Lord and He shall give you the desires of your
heart ~

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
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5b. Re: TOO lean of meals?
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 4:00 pm ((PDT))

"Could I be giving my dog TOO lean of meals... so that he's losing weight on
his raw?????"

Increase his meal size. Mine had 9 months of lean venison (very little fat)
- mine weigh 80-95 lbs and eat approximately 1.5 - 2 lbs of venison daily
when I had venison - now that we are on chicken until hunting season, I had
to cut back on volume (chicken is fattier) so they get 1- 1.5 daily now; and
the weather has been hot so we're only doing about 30 minutes of exercise in
the evenings when it is cool. So it depends on amount of exercise too
because some dogs will burn more calories and therefore need more food.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

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Messages in this topic (3)
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5c. Re: TOO lean of meals?
Posted by: "Denise" DeniseAndZac@gmail.com puresurrender
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:14 pm ((PDT))

thanks. He self regulates.. and just wont' eat a whole lot.

denise

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Messages in this topic (3)
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6a. Re: Nibbling on grazing animals faeces?
Posted by: "Maggie Smith" redkeds@comcast.net redkeds1
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:37 pm ((PDT))

Michelle,

I don't know about other animal's feces - but I had a lab mix that
loved cat poo. My vet told me that cat poo can bring on a
particular type of worms and my lab had to be de-wormed twice
because of his habit. I was able to break him of it eventually.

I personally would not want my dogs to eat any kind of feces,
whether it was good for them or not, just my .02 cents.

Maggie, Rufus and Oliver

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "harrynala" <michelle@...> wrote:
>
> So, this may seem a bit of a strange question...
>
> I'm an expat living in a very rural Eastern European village,
where
> everyone lives self-sufficient and most of the animals wander
freely
> along the dirt track streets of the village.
>
> It is all very Monty Python, VERY free range and quite nice
really -
> everyones dogs also roam free and are all friends too.
>
> Anyway... as a result there is ALOT of goat, sheep, cow and horse
poo
> here and there, and my dogs seem to find it quite tasty!
>
> My husband thinks it's gross and stops them from eating it,
whereas I
> have tended to take the view that if they think they need it, let
> them eat it :D
>
> So, my question, is this ok? is it normal? does it mean their
diet
> is deficient in something? are there any negatives to them eating
> it? etc etc!!
>
> BTW - I feed RMB, probably a bit too much bone at the moment and
> probably not enough offal (however am addressing this since
joining
> this group).
>
> Many thanks in advance
> Michelle
>

Messages in this topic (3)
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6b. Re: Nibbling on grazing animals faeces?
Posted by: "Nathalie Poulin" poulin_nathalie@yahoo.ca poulin_nathalie
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:13 pm ((PDT))

That's pretty strange because my vet told me that cat pooh is like granola bars for dogs...(not that any of us would feed out dogs granola bars).
I thought it was a strange analogy but I was never told that it could cause worms. Good to know now, because I'm pretty sure my dog eats the cat pooh from time to time.

Nathalie

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Messages in this topic (3)
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7a. Re: My dog is gaining weight but doesn't need to – help!
Posted by: "lmclaen" lmclaen@yahoo.com lmclaen
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:55 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "costrowski75" <Chriso75@...> wrote:
I really recommend you feed once a day or less. Use occasional no-
food days so that you can give her occasional big food days to clean
her teeth and gums and provide some all around exercise and fun.
----------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks Chris for all your advice :) - Laeny

Messages in this topic (10)
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8a. Re: weight loss
Posted by: "natgs" natgs@yahoo.com natgs
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:55 pm ((PDT))

Doni,

I would definitely avoid mixing kibble and raw to make sure that they
don't clash in your girls' system. She may be not eating to regulate
whatever is wrong with her now. My dog skipped a meal on occasion when
he felt sick (which was usually accompanied by diarrhea). He also
doesn't eat for about an hour after exercise. I leave the food out and
he gets to it eventually. So my advice would be to stick with raw,
just regulate the amount/frequency/consistency of poops to make sure
everything is digested properly, and the weight will be back to
normal. I would also give her more than the recommended 2-3% of ideal
weight.

In addition, I would stick with probiotics for now. I haven't heard
anything about the 'good' bacteria from yogurt/kefir not surviving in
the dogs' stomachs. I'll need to investigate further. I suppose there
is no harm though. If you are concerned about that, just stick with
the powdered stuff that can be added to meals. I know that there are
people on this list who don't support using probiotics. They
(probiotics) helped me out and I keep them on hand. So you decide for
yourself.

There was another comment/question about chicken broth. I give it to
my boy if he's having digestive issues (i.e., diarrhea). I usually add
chunks of raw chicken. It's easy to digest, plus helps rehydrate him
from diarrhea.

Natalya

> Natalya,
> Thanks for the info. On Sat night/SUnday she refused RAW, so I gave
> her some kibble on Sun and she ate, but then had the diarrhea.
> Monday she ate ground beef and devoured it!! and no diarrhea. So
> maybe it was me not giving RAW enough of a chance and then giving her
> the kibble that made her have the diarrhea. I have probiotics that I
> am giving her over the food.
> So will a dog eventually eat RAW if I refuse to feed her kibble???
> She was just soo thin.
> Thanks, Doni
>

Messages in this topic (14)
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9a. Re: guilt and anger
Posted by: "Michael Moore" m-tak@sbcglobal.net annemoore2000
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:56 pm ((PDT))

>>BTW, did any of you go through a period of guilt and anger with
yourself for feeding your dogs kibble? I am so ticked off at myself
to think of all the years that I have been "killing" my little guys
out of ignorance.<<

Robyn -- absolutely did!! And then, I got over it -- by telling myself that I did the best that knew "back then," and now I know better and do better.
In my case, this also applies to dogs I had back when I vaccinated, etc., who were fed ki**ble for generations!

-- Anne Moore (M-Tak PWC and one goofy GSD rescue and a silly Golden rescue) in NW Ohio

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Messages in this topic (2)
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9b. Re: guilt and anger
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 4:32 pm ((PDT))

"BTW, did any of you go through a period of guilt and anger with yourself
for feeding your dogs kibble? I am so ticked off at myself to think of all
the years that I have been "killing" my little guys out of ignorance"

Oh yes - and then you go on a qwest of why did my dog die of cancer, etc....
which led me down the road of raw feeding, vax free, chemical free...
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

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Messages in this topic (2)
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10. New Here - Looking to start feeding a raw diet to my yorkie.
Posted by: "kalina82" kalina82@yahoo.com kalina82
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:56 pm ((PDT))

Hi

I have a 1 year old 4lb yorkie named Morgan. Currently I am feeding
nature's variety venison medallions, which she loves. Gobbles it up
way faster then when she was eating kibble. After reading some posts
here I can clearly see that you recommend stopping all types of
commercial diets and start feeding raw meaty bones. I'm just worried
about giving her bones because she is so small and i have no concept
about how much to feed her and how big the bones need to be so she
won't choke on them. I have no doubt in my mind that she will dive
right in and eat anything i give her. I was going to start with
chicken leg quarters but i'm even wondering if those will be too big.
Should i choose drumsticks instead? Also i realize chicken alone
isn't a good diet to keep her on and that she needs more variety. I
don't know what other meats and bones are appropriate size for her. I
would also like to be able to buy it at the supermarket if possible.
I figure whole fish would be easy but i don't know which types of fish
are good for her. And can i get organ's at the supermarket???

I'm just so nervous about it. I would really appreciate it if other
yorkie owners could tell me what they feed their yorkies and how much.

Thanks so much for any information.

Kellie

Messages in this topic (1)
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11a. What are beef "finger ribs?" Yes or No
Posted by: "Pamela Picard" pet.wellness@yahoo.com pet.wellness
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 4:57 pm ((PDT))

My partner found a good buy on "beef finger ribs." I don't know what
they are. Yes or no to feed my standard poodle? TIA

Pamela Picard
www.pet-wellness-update.com

Messages in this topic (2)
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11b. Re: What are beef "finger ribs?" Yes or No
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 6:01 pm ((PDT))

> My partner found a good buy on "beef finger ribs." I don't know what
> they are. Yes or no to feed my standard poodle? TIA

No. Too small, choking hazard.

Casey

Messages in this topic (2)
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12a. MOTHER
Posted by: "Denise" DeniseAndZac@gmail.com puresurrender
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 4:58 pm ((PDT))

Once again.. my know it all mother tells me how to do it.

I gave my boy a pork picnic roast. Mom just about lost it saying how bad
pork is for the body.... I told her he's not human... She said it's still
bad for him.

Like she would know??

Is it???

Denise
--
~ Delight thyself in the Lord and He shall give you the desires of your
heart ~

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12b. Re: MOTHER
Posted by: "Sonja" ladyver@sbcglobal.net lonepalm77
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:13 pm ((PDT))

Pork is fine unless your religion tells you otherwise!!!!

Sonja

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12c. Re: MOTHER
Posted by: "mousegirls" mousegirls@gmail.com ladysown
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:14 pm ((PDT))

Sounds like your mother genuinely cares about her "grand-dog's" health,
and wants to be assured that feeding him raw pork will be okay. It also
sounds like you could not definitively state that it was perfectly okay
for him. Which would make a mom nervous, for you and the dog.

You might want to tell her that you get your pork from reputable people
and that pork is not infected with all those pork diseases anymore...as
long as it's north american pork it is just fine. Back it up with some
research. she'll be happier and so will you. :)

OR tell her that the pork has been frozen hard for three weeks which is
the recommendation for pork that isn't cooked and that freezing it kills
the bugs in it. easy peasy. :)

annette
http://ladysown.blogspot.com/
http://rileysowner.livejournal.com/
http://vellengaviews.blogspot.com/

"What a man is alone on his knees before God, that he is, and no more".-Robert Murray M'Cheyne
"I believe that prayer is the measure of the man, spiritually, in a way that nothing else is, so that how we pray is as important a question as we can ever face"- J.I. Packer

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13a. lamb neck bones
Posted by: "Sue" fordogs@ptd.net agiledogs2000
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 7:06 pm ((PDT))

Still new to raw feeding at this point and I was able to get some lamb
neck bones, I asked for them whole but when I picked them up they were
cut in half. I fed them to my dogs, my older dog (9 yrs) ate most of
it, the younger dog (1 yr) took much longer. I eventually took it away
from him and some of the bone from the older dog also. My concern was
the size of these bones, they were a little scary for me and my dogs
seemed to be taking a long, loud, crunchy time eating them. I was
afraid of damaging their teeth. I've read on this list that lamb bones
are ok to feed but I guess still being a novice, I didn't trust it. Am
I being too paranoid? I also bought beef rib bones with xtra meat and
I know you have to be careful with beef ribs and after seeing the lamb
bones I'm worried about even trying those. I still haven't really
figured this whole feeding process out and I guess I'm making myself a
little crazy. Could use some advise please.
Thanks,
Sue & the Aussies

Messages in this topic (8)
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14. Bones From Ram
Posted by: "Chrissy" hylesrayburn@sbcglobal.net tresuregarden
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 7:07 pm ((PDT))

Ok.. So I have decided to do the deed and butcher the mean ram. I know weight bearing bones in large livestock are bad but what about the weight bearing bones in an animal that weighs about 250 lbs? I am going to do this myself sence it is well over $100 to have the butcher come out and do it. I need to know about the bones that can not be used, I want to use as much as possable.

Thanks
Chrissy

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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11908

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. My dog is gaining weight but doesn't need to – help!
From: lmclaen
1b. Re: My dog is gaining weight but doesn't need to – help!
From: Andrea
1c. Re: My dog is gaining weight but doesn't need to – help!
From: Carol
1d. Re: My dog is gaining weight but doesn't need to – help!
From: costrowski75
1e. Re: My dog is gaining weight but doesn't need to – help!
From: lmclaen
1f. Re: My dog is gaining weight but doesn't need to – help!
From: lmclaen
1g. Re: My dog is gaining weight but doesn't need to – help!
From: temy1102
1h. Re: My dog is gaining weight but doesn't need to – help!
From: Andrea
1i. Re: My dog is gaining weight but doesn't need to – help!
From: Carol

2a. Re: the trouble w/pork bones
From: Andrea
2b. Re: the trouble w/pork bones
From: Yasuko herron
2c. Re: the trouble w/pork bones
From: Pamela Picard

3a. Re: weight loss
From: natgs
3b. Re: weight loss
From: Nathalie Poulin
3c. Re: weight loss
From: Doni

4a. Re: changing diet for IBS Toy Poodle
From: ginny wilken

5. butcher time for lamb
From: lhmcmaken

6a. Re: Anyone add vinegar to their dogs drinking water
From: ginny wilken

7a. Re: Weston A. Price Foundation/Grass-fed meat (was Re: meat from far
From: Yasuko herron

8a. Re: bone and blood in the stool
From: Yasuko herron

9a. Re: Quantity to feed?
From: harrynala

10. Which bones/meat are best?
From: harrynala

11a. Deer meat
From: trayc2244

12. BONE
From: abooot99

13. Nibbling on grazing animals faeces?
From: harrynala

Messages
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1a. My dog is gaining weight but doesn't need to – help!
Posted by: "lmclaen" lmclaen@yahoo.com lmclaen
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 7:44 am ((PDT))

Kiwi is a 2½ year old Labrador; she has some powerful jaws and from
everything I have read here she needs to have decent sized cuts of
meat. However… she is a very small Lab, a healthy weight on her is
40-41 pounds. She doesn't need a lot of food to keep her at that
weight. On kibble, she only had 1.5 cups a day of Canidae to
maintain her weight.

Now on raw (for 1½ weeks) I have been feeding her chicken - a
drumstick in the morning and the thigh in the evening. For the past
couple of days I've thought she looked heavier, so I weighed her –
sure enough she is at 43.5 pounds. I do not want her to gain weight.

From what I have read, she will need more than chicken once she is
used to raw feeding, and she will need bigger cuts to truly give her
teeth the cleaning that raw gives. I don't know what to do, what to
feed her, so that she will maintain a healthy weight, isn't chicken
the leanest I can feed her?

TIA for all your advice. Laeny

Messages in this topic (9)
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1b. Re: My dog is gaining weight but doesn't need to – help!
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:03 am ((PDT))

Since she's not a pup anymore, I would suggest feeding her once a
day. A whole chicken quarter looks bigger and takes more energy to
eat than a drumstick in the morning and a thigh at night. Once she
is eating once a day you can give her big food and just pick it up
when she's had enough for the day.

Lots of dogs gain muscle mass when they start a raw diet and gain
some pounds, so I wouldn't worry too much about her weight on the
scale. But since you said she looks bigger, I would go by that. She
might just not need a lot of food to maintain a healthy weight.
Don't worry about her gaining weight just yet, she's still in the
transition period. Once you both get more comfortable with raw
feeding I'm sure everything will work out ok. Keep an eye on that
waistline and let us know if it keeps getting larger.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "lmclaen" <lmclaen@...> wrote:
>
> For the past couple of days I've thought she looked heavier, so I
> weighed her – sure enough she is at 43.5 pounds. I do not want her
> to gain weight.

Messages in this topic (9)
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1c. Re: My dog is gaining weight but doesn't need to – help!
Posted by: "Carol" onejoyfulmoose@yahoo.com onejoyfulmoose
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:16 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "lmclaen" <lmclaen@...> wrote:
>
> Kiwi is a 2½ year old Labrador; I do not want her to gain weight.
>
Just use the weight as a guideline for what is right for her, a larger
bone structure will weight more than light bone structure, can you feel
her ribs? If not, she's too fat.

Is she getting lots of exercise? Or, a couch potatoe (I have one of
those)

If she's spayed she might tend to gain weight easier. And if these
kinds of things aren't the cause, have a full panel thyroid test done.
Thyroid issues can cause all types of problems from weight loss, weight
gain, aggression, lack of energy, etc.

Carol
Dog Owner, Ohio >

Messages in this topic (9)
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1d. Re: My dog is gaining weight but doesn't need to – help!
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:44 am ((PDT))

"lmclaen" <lmclaen@...> wrote:
> From what I have read, she will need more than chicken once she is
> used to raw feeding, and she will need bigger cuts to truly give
her
> teeth the cleaning that raw gives. I don't know what to do, what to
> feed her, so that she will maintain a healthy weight, isn't chicken
> the leanest I can feed her?
*****
--Feed her an appropriate amount of food once a day.
--Or feed her double that but every other day.
--Or feed her once a day, but once a week feed her a bigger, more
complicated and involving meaty RMB meal and skip the next day.
--Increase her exercise.
--Have a full thyroid work up done.

You cannot remove all the fat from her menu. Dogs have two building
blocks in their nutritional pyramid--protein and fat. She needs
both. Feeding her just lean chicken is not the way to keep her fit
and healthy. Feed a variety of meats, feed a variety of body parts,
feed bony meals and meaty meals and fat meals and lean meals.

When one is feeding an easy keeper, one must use all the tools
available. I really recommend you feed once a day or less. Use
occasional no-food days so that you can give her occasional big food
days to clean her teeth and gums and provide some all around exercise
and fun.

And if she doesn't have several jobs to keep her busy, try to invent
some. Organized activity almost always burns more calories than
hanging out does.

Chris O

Messages in this topic (9)
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1e. Re: My dog is gaining weight but doesn't need to – help!
Posted by: "lmclaen" lmclaen@yahoo.com lmclaen
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:46 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Andrea" <poketmouse45@...> wrote:
>
> Since she's not a pup anymore, I would suggest feeding her once a
> day.
----------------------------------------------------------
Oh I just had a feeling someone would say that! Ugh... I dread the
retraining of her AND me for this one!! She hovers and stares when
it's time to eat, she (and I) have gotten very used to the twice a day
routine.

> Don't worry about her gaining weight just yet, she's still in the
> transition period. Once you both get more comfortable with raw
> feeding I'm sure everything will work out ok. Keep an eye on that
> waistline and let us know if it keeps getting larger.
----------------------------------------------------------
Will do, I appreciate your advice! Laeny

Messages in this topic (9)
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1f. Re: My dog is gaining weight but doesn't need to – help!
Posted by: "lmclaen" lmclaen@yahoo.com lmclaen
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:52 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Carol" <onejoyfulmoose@...> wrote:
Just use the weight as a guideline for what is right for her, a larger
bone structure will weight more than light bone structure, can you
feel her ribs? If not, she's too fat. Is she getting lots of
exercise? Or, a couch potatoe (I have one of those)
------------------------------------------------------------
She has a light, delicate bone structure, most people mistake her for
a puppy. I can feel her ribs easily, and she still has a nice waist.
But she has changed, I can tell but it's hard to explain! Oh and she
is a coach potato, loves her walks but prefers to lay around. Thanks
so much for your advice - Laeny

Messages in this topic (9)
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1g. Re: My dog is gaining weight but doesn't need to – help!
Posted by: "temy1102" tammy.a.jp@gmail.com temy1102
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:16 am ((PDT))

Tell me about it.... I have a dog who was fed kibble twice a day, 9am
and 5pm on the dot because he will whine exactly on time, and increase
the volume if food is not immediately forthcoming! A very punctual guy.

But since starting on raw, I decided to grit my teeth and bear it, and
at first I fed him twice a day, and then a larger meal once a day,
which was less painful than I thought. Probably because he's getting
fuller than he normally is and not as as hungry in the morning. Small
frequent meals are good for humans, but not for dogs. You might
notice that your dog will hover less when she's getting bigger meals.

Still, at 5pm my dog will start crying for food, but I followed the
example of some people here and started changing dinnertime to be
anywhere from 3pm to 9pm, to keep him on his toes. It helps some.
Sometimes I just make plans to be out of the house at that time.

Of course, if you have a real chowhound, you're out of luck. My
doberman will eat her 5 lb. leg of lamb, and then stare at me,
drooling, while I eat my dinner.

Tammy & Grover

Messages in this topic (9)
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1h. Re: My dog is gaining weight but doesn't need to – help!
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:16 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "lmclaen" <lmclaen@...> wrote:

> Oh I just had a feeling someone would say that! Ugh... I dread the
> retraining of her AND me for this one!! She hovers and stares when
> it's time to eat, she (and I) have gotten very used to the twice a
> day routine.

I totally understand, changing routines can be a huge PITA for all of
us. But both of you will benefit from throwing the schedule out the
window! I'm assuming that she eats both meals at a set time in the
day, so step one for me would be to make those times random.
Sometimes meal one happens an hour earlier than she expected,
sometimes meal two is an hour later, etc. ***Let it be known that as
soon as you start to mess with the schedule she's used to she's
probably going to have the bile vomit. When she thinks it is about
time to eat, her stomach will start producing the digestive juices to
get ready. But if the food doesn't come, those juices just sit there
and irritate her stomach, so she'll puke them up. This is perfectly
normal though upsetting for the human. Once you have sufficiently
randomized feeding time, this won't happen anymore.

Step two will be much easier after she has stopped expecting food at
certain times of the day: move to one meal. You can start making one
meal bigger while the other gets smaller until one of them goes away,
or you can start moving am and pm mealtimes closer together until
they meet somewhere in the middle. Hope that helps!

Andrea

Messages in this topic (9)
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1i. Re: My dog is gaining weight but doesn't need to – help!
Posted by: "Carol" onejoyfulmoose@yahoo.com onejoyfulmoose
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 12:21 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "lmclaen" <lmclaen@...> wrote:
> )
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> She has a light, delicate bone structure, I can feel her ribs
easily, and she still has a nice waist. > But she has changed, I can l
but it's hard to explain!

- Laeny
>
She just might be maturing. Sounds like she's in terrific shape. I
have to watch the weight on my coach potatoe. There have been times I
couldn't find his ribs through the hair and excess weight.

Carol

Messages in this topic (9)
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2a. Re: the trouble w/pork bones
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:17 am ((PDT))

Pork shoulder (aka Picnic roast) is an old standby at my house.
Neither of the pups could consume the bone early on, but at about 4
months they were able to do more than just gnaw on it. It is a big
bone, so your little ones might not be able to completely consume it,
but it is a pretty soft bone so there is no harm in letting them try.
Pork ribs are fantastic eating if you can find them for cheap. I
usually can't, so since Tycho has gotten some of his adult teeth in I
don't splurge on them often. Meaty pork neck is good as well, as long
as it isn't cut up really small. If you can get meaty cuts for cheap
(lucky you) you can add a pig's foot here and there for some good
edible bone as well. Hope that helps some.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "pigasus718" <pigasus718@...> wrote:

> I read we shouldn't give bones that have been cut by butcher's saw.
> right? So, what can I use for pork rmb?

Messages in this topic (4)
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2b. Re: the trouble w/pork bones
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:17 am ((PDT))

>Problem is I'm having trouble with finding pork rmb.

Hi,Robyn.

Pork I have fed..

Pork butt (If you have Ukrop near you,this week,they sell POrk picnic or butt $1.68/lb)

Pork chop (cut out the little tiny bone out before feeding)

Pork Loin

Pork Ribs (spare rib,Back rib.No need to get rid ob bone out because rib bones seems soft like chicken)

Pork Heart (you can feed as boneless meat)

Pork Tongue (You can feed as boneless meat)

Pork Neck (My Corgi ate all bone)

Pork Feet (Took long time to finish off,but Corgi ate all)

Pork ear (More like snack)

If your dog got soft poo problems,try feed combo meal with chicken

and if still soft,try add more bone to meal

If that did not help, try consider getting help from Slippery Elm powder to sooth the stomach of your dog

If your dog got constipated by ..say pork feet,give more meat and reduce bone from meal

When your dog get used to these andyou think they areready,you also can feed Pork liver and Pork kidney. My dog gets it once a week (I am roating among chicken,Beef etc's organ) about 5% daily intake each organ;5% kidney,5% liver.

Hope this helps.

yassy

---------------------------------
Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.

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Messages in this topic (4)
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2c. Re: the trouble w/pork bones
Posted by: "Pamela Picard" pet.wellness@yahoo.com pet.wellness
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 12:22 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "pigasus718" <pigasus718@...> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
> Started raw 2 1/2wks ago. My guys are doing great. Fed chicken for
> first 2wks. no problem, no cannon butt(thank God). Now, I've started
> pork as second meat. Going great, dogs love it. Problem is I'm >
BTW, did any of you go through a period of guilt and anger with
> yourself for feeding your dogs kibble? I am so ticked off at myself
> to think of all the years that I have been "killing" my little guys
> out of ignorance.
>
> Thanks for suggestions and letting me vent there at the end.
>
> Robyn
>
***
Oh yes, big time guilt. Sometimes I still wonder if my dog will
survive my ignorance. LOL

You can't know what you don't know. And you certainly don't get good
information from resources you once thought "authoritative." We live.
We err. We learn. We grow.

Thank God for the Internet and such great groups for support.

Pamela

Messages in this topic (4)
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3a. Re: weight loss
Posted by: "natgs" natgs@yahoo.com natgs
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:49 am ((PDT))

Doni,

"Fist fast" was a typo. I meant to write "first fast". Sounds like her
stools were OK before. Does she only refuse raw or both raw and
kibble? If it's both, then I think she's regulating whatever problem
she's having by fasting herself. If it's only raw, then she may be
associating whatever problem she's having with it and thus refusing
it. (I don't think it's the variety issue, since you give her plenty
of different meats.) At any rate, I would not recommend mixing the
two, because it may do more harm.

I would still fast her for a day or so. Then I would give her
something that would be really easy on her system, e.g. chicken broth
with chunks of chicken in it. I would also give her some probiotics to
help her grow 'good' bacteria. (Typically, I'd recommend yogurt or
kefir as a good source of probiotics. However, since her digestive
system is sensitive now, it's best to eliminate any possible
irritations such as even a small amount of dairy).

I had similar problems with my pup when I started: frequent diarrhea,
not enough weight, etc. Fell free to write to me direct and I'll be
happy to share my experiences with you. In a nutshell though, he was
simply not digesting his food properly.

Natalya

>
> Sorry, what's fist fast? Before she went refused the raw, her
> stools were getting condensed and turned chalky after day or two.
> But she is actually refusing raw right now. I'm concerned about her
> weight loss, she's naturally thin, but looking rather poorly right
> this moment.
>
> Doni
>

Messages in this topic (13)
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3b. Re: weight loss
Posted by: "Nathalie Poulin" poulin_nathalie@yahoo.ca poulin_nathalie
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:13 am ((PDT))

I was under the impression that dogs stomachs were too
acidic for yogurt and that any probiotics from kefir
or yogurt would die immediately in the stomach without
being any benefit to the dog?
Could somone clarify this for me please?
Does chicken broth really help? Are the chunks of
chicken cooked or raw?

Nathalie

> e.g. chicken broth
> with chunks of chicken in it. I would also give her
> some probiotics to
> help her grow 'good' bacteria. (Typically, I'd
> recommend yogurt or
> kefir as a good source of probiotics.

Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo! Answers and share what you know at http://ca.answers.yahoo.com

Messages in this topic (13)
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3c. Re: weight loss
Posted by: "Doni" nsdbernd@yahoo.com nsdbernd
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:16 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "natgs" <natgs@...> wrote:
>
> Doni,
>
> "Fist fast" was a typo. I meant to write "first fast". Sounds like
her
> stools were OK before. Does she only refuse raw or both raw and
> kibble? If it's both, then I think she's regulating whatever problem
> she's having by fasting herself. If it's only raw, then she may be
> associating whatever problem she's having with it and thus refusing
> it. (I don't think it's the variety issue, since you give her plenty
> of different meats.) At any rate, I would not recommend mixing the
> two, because it may do more harm.
>
> I would still fast her for a day or so. Then I would give her
> something that would be really easy on her system, e.g. chicken
broth
> with chunks of chicken in it. I would also give her some probiotics
to
> help her grow 'good' bacteria. (Typically, I'd recommend yogurt or
> kefir as a good source of probiotics. However, since her digestive
> system is sensitive now, it's best to eliminate any possible
> irritations such as even a small amount of dairy).
>
> I had similar problems with my pup when I started: frequent
diarrhea,
> not enough weight, etc. Fell free to write to me direct and I'll be
> happy to share my experiences with you. In a nutshell though, he was
> simply not digesting his food properly.
>
> Natalya
>
> >
> > Sorry, what's fist fast? Before she went refused the raw, her
> > stools were getting condensed and turned chalky after day or
two.
> > But she is actually refusing raw right now. I'm concerned about
her
> > weight loss, she's naturally thin, but looking rather poorly
right
> > this moment.
> >
> > Doni
> >
>
Natalya,
Thanks for the info. On Sat night/SUnday she refused RAW, so I gave
her some kibble on Sun and she ate, but then had the diarrhea.
Monday she ate ground beef and devoured it!! and no diarrhea. So
maybe it was me not giving RAW enough of a chance and then giving her
the kibble that made her have the diarrhea. I have probiotics that I
am giving her over the food.
So will a dog eventually eat RAW if I refuse to feed her kibble???
She was just soo thin.
Thanks, Doni

Messages in this topic (13)
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4a. Re: changing diet for IBS Toy Poodle
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:29 am ((PDT))

On Aug 14, 2007, at 5:29 AM, amanda wrote:

> HI Ginny, Thanks for your information, which meats are more easily
> absorbed and digested? Thanks Amanda and pippin.

I'm not sure I understand your question. Raw ones, whole ones, things
the animal has to work at to swallow, as they stimulate enyzme
secretion. For starters, pick any one convenient protein and stick
with that one for a week or so to reaccustom the digestive tract to
raw; then branch out. We have ever so much guiding resource material
and links, so please consult the website and the list that is
published each week.

If you have more specific concerns, please go ahead and ask, and
someone will answer.

ginny and Tomo

All stunts performed without a net!

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Messages in this topic (2)
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5. butcher time for lamb
Posted by: "lhmcmaken" lhmcmaken@yahoo.com lhmcmaken
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:13 am ((PDT))

Hello. I have a chance to get whatever i want when a friend butchers
her lamb. what should I ask for and what is a fair price? I am
feeding my two danes raw now and am in week three. both have gained
weight and love it. thanks.
take care,
lynda, maude and franklin

Messages in this topic (1)
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6a. Re: Anyone add vinegar to their dogs drinking water
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:14 am ((PDT))

On Aug 14, 2007, at 5:55 AM, ohboyx3 wrote:

>
>>
> Thank you all for your great responses.
>
> Carol, The vinegar was suggested because I wanted more results with
> his teeth and breath. If he does have a yeast imbalance is there
> something else I should do?
>
> It was suggested that I start with white vinegar to ease him into the
> taste and then to switch to acv. I will switch right away. Is
> there a
> better brand that I should try to find at my health food store?
>
> How much should I add to his water and should I start at a lower
> dilution and work up?

I wouldn't bother. If he is getting appropriate food items in
appropriate sizes and textures, his teeth and breath should get as
good as they can be. If there are still problems after several
months, we'd need to look further into his health or fine tune his
diet, or both.

ginny and Tomo

All stunts performed without a net!

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Messages in this topic (13)
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7a. Re: Weston A. Price Foundation/Grass-fed meat (was Re: meat from far
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:14 am ((PDT))

>http://www.westonaprice.org/localchapters/index.html

Thanks,Laurie. This link maybe good for everyone as well.

Now,I don't see what they grow in the list so,I need to ask them what they grow?

yassy

---------------------------------
Luggage? GPS? Comic books?
Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search.

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Messages in this topic (12)
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8a. Re: bone and blood in the stool
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:15 am ((PDT))

>> I mean,if one people feed just chicken,dog gets allegy problems?

>Probably not but they won't get all the nutrients they need either.

Hi,Bill.So,feeding one protin all time don't develop allegy like you hear for kibble then.
It is just that dog cannot get all they need from 1 single thing then.

Thanks.I was just curious.

yassy

---------------------------------
Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more.

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9a. Re: Quantity to feed?
Posted by: "harrynala" michelle@synertex.co.uk harrynala
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:15 am ((PDT))

> Don't look at the numbers, look at your dogs. Are they gaining
> weight at 3%? If so, feed less. If they're losing weight, feed
> more. 2-3% is just a starting point.

Many thanks for your reply Crystal. I have gone a few days with
giving her ALOT more, and she eats it all, looks like a weeble for a
while then promptly throws up! That lambs head I mentioned in my
original post - that got returned to me after a while aswell!

I've tried a few more times giving her as much beef as she wants,
that also gets returned to me if she eats too much!

My boy however, will eat a little bit more than 3% if it's given to
him and then leave her to vacuum the rest up for him :D

With her still only being 8 months old, I had understood that it was
unwise to feed too much as their tums are still quite small, or does
that only apply to really young pups? I am currently splitting her 3
% into 2 meals a day which I had intended to do until she is 12
months.

Any thoughts on this?

Many thanks in advance
Michelle

Messages in this topic (3)
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10. Which bones/meat are best?
Posted by: "harrynala" michelle@synertex.co.uk harrynala
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:21 am ((PDT))

Hi everyone,

I live in rural Eastern Europe and struggle to get a wide range of
suitable RMBs, so just wanted to check that what I do feed is ok.

For the most part I feed half chickens, and meaty beef ribs. I also
feed seared beef offal occasionally (they still won't eat it totally
raw), occasional lambs head plus canned fish, and eggs.

Having read here that the meat to bone ratio should be 80%, I'm now
wondering whether I'm getting the proportions right. So, my questions
are this:

1) I've read here that beef ribs could wear the teeth down.
They kill their beef here at 9 mths old (I know UK is normally 36mths) -
being from a younger animal, would this make it less of an issue for
their teeth? Plus I've read here to avoid bones cut with a butchers
saw due to the sharp edges. Everything here is sawn! It's currently
the only RMB beef I can get hold of, the rest is expensive cuts. I've
not had a problem with sharp edges and their teeth look good to me -
for the long term tho, should I ditch the ribs or are these only minor
concerns?

2) I feed lambs heads whole, my 8 mth old girl will eat the lot, my 16
mth old boy only picks at his. Is this a suitable RMB or is this not
enough meat to bone ratio? I'm just wondering whether to persevere with
my boy or not? Again, other than the heads, lamb is generally expensive
here, I can occasionally get the ribs, but usually as a treat.

3) Chicken is easy - they like it, and I could feed it much more,
although I had previously understood it was not the best food source as
it has less of the required nutrients than other meats. Is this true?

4) I have refrained from feeding pork as I had read it is associated
with pancreatitis and trichinosis, plus pigs are all stall reared here
as they like lots of pig fat, so it is quite fatty. Do you think I am
being overcautious?

I have yet to find the local abattoir which would be a godsend, the
language barrier is proving to be a bit of problem, especially when
they discover I want meat for my dogs .... the majority of dogs here
are fed bread and water, so you can imagine the looks I get when I go
through the whole "I want bones with meat on", "Why?" "For my dog" "For
your dog?" "Why? What's wrong with bread?" .... I think you get the
picture :D

Any help appreciated

Michelle

Messages in this topic (1)
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11a. Deer meat
Posted by: "trayc2244" BreeZ119@catt.com trayc2244
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 12:21 pm ((PDT))

I have gotten lucky enough to score a huge amount of deer meat as soon
as hunting season opens. I need to know the rules when it comes to
deer meat, please.
Does it need to be frozen for a certain amount of time before fed?
How often can I feed deer meat, I'm assuming it can't be everyday?
Can I feed deer trachea, heart, lungs, spleen, head...ect?
Anything else I need to know about deer meat?
I've never fed deer meat so I'm clueless about it. Thanks for any help.

Tracy

Messages in this topic (2)
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12. BONE
Posted by: "abooot99" abooot99@yahoo.com abooot99
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 12:23 pm ((PDT))

Hi all,

I have been feeding my dog raw since May or June of this year and
recently for the past few weeks has been refusing alot of his meals
including chicken which he ate well at first. He now wants nothing to
do with chicken and so given that, I am having a hard time getting
bone into him. He doesnt love turkey either. I did at the beginning
purchase bravo ground lamb with bone and he does eat that but I dont
feed it every meal. As is he doesnt eat right away the food I do give
him. People have told me to take it up after 20 min but he is the
type that likes to eat bits here and there. If I leave food out all
night, he will go out sometimes in the middle of the night when it is
cool out and will eat it. I left out beef heart out for a few hours
and he took strip by strip outside. Didnt eat it but left it on the
lawn. He also left a piece on the floor in the kitchen. This morning,
it was gone. He seems to be a night eater but still, won't touch
bone. The only exception to this is that when I bring him to my moms
house, her dog had a turkey drum stick that he stole and ate some of,
even the bone. He is just so picky and it is frusterating that he
wont eat in a timely fashion and he looks thinner to me. I did catch
him sneaking the cat food a few times though. When we eat, he acts
like he is starving. He likes cooked seasoned meat. He never refuses
that but the bland raw, he leaves until he is starving and swallows
with no enthusiasm (like when my mom used to make me eat peas). I
feel bad when he doesnt enjoy his meals. He does like eggs and canned
mackeral, sardines, salmon.....what do I do. He is getting his annual
vet exam with fecal and urinalyisis on friday... What do you think?
Amanda

Messages in this topic (1)
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13. Nibbling on grazing animals faeces?
Posted by: "harrynala" michelle@synertex.co.uk harrynala
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 12:32 pm ((PDT))

So, this may seem a bit of a strange question...

I'm an expat living in a very rural Eastern European village, where
everyone lives self-sufficient and most of the animals wander freely
along the dirt track streets of the village.

It is all very Monty Python, VERY free range and quite nice really -
everyones dogs also roam free and are all friends too.

Anyway... as a result there is ALOT of goat, sheep, cow and horse poo
here and there, and my dogs seem to find it quite tasty!

My husband thinks it's gross and stops them from eating it, whereas I
have tended to take the view that if they think they need it, let
them eat it :D

So, my question, is this ok? is it normal? does it mean their diet
is deficient in something? are there any negatives to them eating
it? etc etc!!

BTW - I feed RMB, probably a bit too much bone at the moment and
probably not enough offal (however am addressing this since joining
this group).

Many thanks in advance
Michelle

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

All information on this list represents personal opinion only. By staying on this list, you agree to never hold anyone from this list or associated with this list liable for any information posted through this list. You agree to take personal responsibility for your learning, and for personal responsibility for what you feed yourself, your family, and your dogs, cats, ferrets, or any other animal that lives under your care. If you don't agree, please unsubscribe immediately.

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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11907

There are 12 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Feeding raw, second time around - intro
From: Elizabeth Funderburk

2a. Re: How do you tell if it's a food allergy?
From: temy1102

3. Re: : Ester C and IBS Toy Poodle
From: amanda

4. changing diet for IBS Toy Poodle
From: amanda

5. Thanks Bill! Re: New member with IBS Toy Poodle
From: amanda

6a. Re: Anyone add vinegar to their dogs drinking water
From: ohboyx3

7a. Re: bone and blood in the stool
From: Melissa
7b. Re: bone and blood in the stool
From: pigasus718

8. the trouble w/pork bones
From: pigasus718

9a. Re: New member with IBS Toy Poodle
From: amanda

10.1. Re: Eggs
From: Melissa

11a. Re: Older Dog Looking At Me Like I'm Nuts!
From: pigasus718

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Re: Feeding raw, second time around - intro
Posted by: "Elizabeth Funderburk" funder@gmail.com funder_memphis
Date: Mon Aug 13, 2007 8:58 pm ((PDT))

Thanks yall! :)

I remember back when I first started, on a "b-word" email list I used to
read a lot, the empasis was on bone bone BONE. Nobody approved of chicken
leg quarters as they were too "meaty." But I had an awful time finding
chicken backs or necks, so I eventually got lazy and ended up feeding Linux
nothing but .79/lb leg quarters. He did fantastic on it!

Now I'm in a different part of town, and my local grocery actually has a
pretty good selection of "other" parts. I can get hog maws, raw ears,
trotters, "hog fries," brains, and chicken feet, in addition to backs,
necks, and cheap boxes of leg quarters. Can probably find chitlins (pork
intestines) too.

The only thing I'm really *wondering* about is finding exotic meats. I'm
going to check the farmers' market and see if any of the meat dealers will
sell me RMB pieces of goat, lamb, rabbit, or the like for a reasonable
price. I know a few duck and deer hunters; I'll see if I can get some deer
heads or some whole duck. (Sorry, dogs, if I score some duck, I'm keeping
the breasts!)

I don't think I'm going to feed fish. The good "fishin holes" around here
are pretty polluted, and I don't trust where supermarket fish came from.
Maybe local farm-raised catfish, if I can find it whole.

I'm going to go ahead and start Linux (the older one) on raw food again
tomorrow. He was on "finish off the bag of kibble" duty, but the more I
read about raw, the ickier the kibble seems. I can't wait for him to have
shiny white teeth again!

I'm off to read some of the suggested links. Time to catch up!

-Elizabeth

On 8/13/07, Laurie Swanson <laurie@mckinneyphoto.com> wrote:
>
> That's great that you're back to rawfeeding. Keep us posted on how
> your dog does--I never get tired of the success stories. And of
> course, we're here for any issues you might come upon. I would
> suggest adding more meat, more variety, and a bit of organs. Chicken
> is a fine start, but dogs eventually need more than that to thrive.
> Beef, pork, lamb, goat, fish, rabbit, turkey, venison, eggs--anything
> you can get. Don't do too much variety at once for a newbie dog,
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
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2a. Re: How do you tell if it's a food allergy?
Posted by: "temy1102" tammy.a.jp@gmail.com temy1102
Date: Mon Aug 13, 2007 8:58 pm ((PDT))

You know what, I think it really is the nicotine, because he's getting
worse. Since this evening, he's stayed in his bed, panting shallowly,
with eyes bulging. I'm making an appointment to see a vet in the
morning. Honestly, it's my fault, I should have been paying better
attention, but he's never been the type of dog to pick random stuff up
outside and eat it. But we live in downtown Los Angeles now and
cigarette butts are everywhere, and he could have gulped one down any
time on one of our walks. :(

Poor Tod.

Tammy & sad Tod

Messages in this topic (4)
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3. Re: : Ester C and IBS Toy Poodle
Posted by: "amanda" white-daisey@lapis.plala.or.jp melime_lalaith2012
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:51 am ((PDT))

Hi Pam, Thanks for your comment, but I have only added Ester C since a week ago and at a low dose and he`s fine since then, Once I stopped the meat and he was only on the Z/D kibble his itching stops! but of course he doesn`t put on any weight! so the only way is to drop the kibble and just go raw and see what happens!! Amand and Pippin.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (1)
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4. changing diet for IBS Toy Poodle
Posted by: "amanda" white-daisey@lapis.plala.or.jp melime_lalaith2012
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:51 am ((PDT))

HI Ginny, Thanks for your information, which meats are more easily absorbed and digested? Thanks Amanda and pippin.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (1)
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5. Thanks Bill! Re: New member with IBS Toy Poodle
Posted by: "amanda" white-daisey@lapis.plala.or.jp melime_lalaith2012
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 7:33 am ((PDT))

Thanks Bill and thanks for the links! I will read that book now! You are very kind, am sure glad that I found this group!! Amanda and Pippin.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (1)
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6a. Re: Anyone add vinegar to their dogs drinking water
Posted by: "ohboyx3" ohboyx3@wildblue.net ohboyx3
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 7:33 am ((PDT))

>
Thank you all for your great responses.

Carol, The vinegar was suggested because I wanted more results with
his teeth and breath. If he does have a yeast imbalance is there
something else I should do?

It was suggested that I start with white vinegar to ease him into the
taste and then to switch to acv. I will switch right away. Is there a
better brand that I should try to find at my health food store?

How much should I add to his water and should I start at a lower
dilution and work up?

Thanks to all

Danae for Zorreaux

Messages in this topic (12)
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7a. Re: bone and blood in the stool
Posted by: "Melissa" mwood8402@yahoo.com mwood8402
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 7:33 am ((PDT))

I think we need to know the weights of your dogs, how much you're
feeding and what your feeding. How fast are you trying to introduce
new proteins? For my Sheltie with IBD, I've been introducing proteins
over a span of 1-2 weeks with little to no digestive upset.

-Melissa W

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "span88888" <span88888@...> wrote:
> This is where I'm conflicted because from one feeding of kibble, I
> noticed she was back to her old playful, energetic self. I haven't
> given up on the raw diet, but I may start cooking her meat or mixing
> kibble in when I feel it will help.
>
> Thanks
> Steve

Messages in this topic (11)
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7b. Re: bone and blood in the stool
Posted by: "pigasus718" pigasus718@yahoo.com pigasus718
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 7:35 am ((PDT))

Hi Steve,
I definitely wouldn't go back to kibble.
You will be sending her body mixed signals.
I think they have to go through "detox" if
you will. With kibble their bodies are used to having to fight
their food to digest it. With raw, the body is using
most of it. It just takes the body a while to adjust.
A couple of days ago, my english mastiff puppy had a piece
of chicken bone that lodged half in half out of his rectum.
We got it out(guided by the vet over the phone)with forceps
and I just fed him meaty meat, no bones, for a couple of days and
you would never know anything had happened. My vet stated that
if it made it that far that it hadn't done any damage to the digestive
tract. Probably same with it in her poo. If if made it all the way
through and out, then she should be fine.
I wouldn't let this stop me from feeding raw and personally nothing
could make me go back to kibble.
Dogs are a lot more resilient than we think.

Robyn

Messages in this topic (11)
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8. the trouble w/pork bones
Posted by: "pigasus718" pigasus718@yahoo.com pigasus718
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 7:34 am ((PDT))

Hi all,
Started raw 2 1/2wks ago. My guys are doing great. Fed chicken for
first 2wks. no problem, no cannon butt(thank God). Now, I've started
pork as second meat. Going great, dogs love it. Problem is I'm having
trouble with finding pork rmb. I don't have any trouble with meaty
meat pork. I've scored a major markdown at the grocery and got
county style ribs, pork chops, both of which I deboned
because of sharp edges from butcher cuts. I read we shouldn't give
bones that have been cut by butcher's saw. right? So, what can I use
for pork rmb?
I found some pork necks. They are very meaty and they love them, but
they are not whole necks and the bones are kinda overwhelming for
my two little guys, especially the shih tzu. They are really trying
though. I'm feeding a 16lb. mini schauzer, 12lb shih tzu, and 25lb
english mastiff puppy(he's 10 wks old, so we're talking puppy teeth).

I've tried searching the archives, but what I've found is pretty
generalized. If someone could give specific examples maybe.
I'm taking things slow, because I've read soooooo many posts from
people who rushed things or fed too much variety at first and had
problems. I haven't fed any organs yet, I feel like it is still too
soon. Any suggestions on the pork bone thing would be greatly
appreciated.
BTW, did any of you go through a period of guilt and anger with
yourself for feeding your dogs kibble? I am so ticked off at myself
to think of all the years that I have been "killing" my little guys
out of ignorance.

Thanks for suggestions and letting me vent there at the end.

Robyn

Messages in this topic (1)
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9a. Re: New member with IBS Toy Poodle
Posted by: "amanda" white-daisey@lapis.plala.or.jp melime_lalaith2012
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 7:35 am ((PDT))

Hi Pamela, o.k I`ll try and let you all know what happens!! Amanda and Pippin.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
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10.1. Re: Eggs
Posted by: "Melissa" mwood8402@yahoo.com mwood8402
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 7:35 am ((PDT))

If she doesn't like them, I don't see a reason to make her eat them. I
don't think eggs are a necessary part of the diet.

-Melissa W

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Nathalie Poulin
<poulin_nathalie@...> wrote:

> Is there a way that I can get her to eat eggs?
>
> Nathalie

Messages in this topic (85)
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11a. Re: Older Dog Looking At Me Like I'm Nuts!
Posted by: "pigasus718" pigasus718@yahoo.com pigasus718
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 7:37 am ((PDT))

Hi Leanne,
I have a 12yr old mini schnauzer and at first he looked at me like "are
you sure about this?"
His thing was the cold factor. I found running warmish water over it
for a couple of minutes then patting it off with a paper towel did the
trick. I don't know if it was a tooth sensitivity issue or warming made
it more aromatic or what.
Anyway, that did the trick for us.
Hope this helps.

Robyn

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

All information on this list represents personal opinion only. By staying on this list, you agree to never hold anyone from this list or associated with this list liable for any information posted through this list. You agree to take personal responsibility for your learning, and for personal responsibility for what you feed yourself, your family, and your dogs, cats, ferrets, or any other animal that lives under your care. If you don't agree, please unsubscribe immediately.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
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