Feed Pets Raw Food

Tuesday, June 19, 2007

Re: [rawfeeding] Re: FISH OIL IN HUMAN GRADE CAPSULES, OK?

On Jun 19, 2007, at 10:27 PM, alliecaracleo wrote:

> I meant for animals who dont tolerate soy, try human grade fish oil
> capsules as it delivers in a pure form. No soy in fish oil capsules.:)
>
> Denise


Not universally true, I'm afraid. Soy oil is a common filler in
chemically extracted fish oil capsules, which most are. The logic of
this is always astounding to me: they farm the fish, feeding things
that raise the Omega 6 levels at the expense of 3's. Then they
squeeze the fish and distill out the Omega 3's that they could have
had in such great plenty if they fed the fish right... Oh, yeah,
then, to get the potency right they fill the rest of the space in the
capsules with soy.

A really good argument to get your nutrition from foods, I'd say.


ginny and Tomo, who drink Timberwolf straight


All stunts performed without a net!


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Re: [rawfeeding] Re: Question switching to raw when you have been feeding kibble? Help please.

Thanks Giselle!

Pup is 6 month old and is a Malamute.
I will tell her and she already said she should not have done that she
was worried he was still hungrey! I told her more raw not the kibble.
She is off the fence for sure now. I hope she gets her computer back up soon and can get on this list! I will tell her about the bark powder and give her full name of it and I will pull up the site for her.
Thanks so much, Charlene

Giselle <megan.giselle@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi, Charlene!
Tell your friend to get off the fence and give the whole prey model a
real chance!
Kibble and raw digest at different rates. Its not fair to the dog to
expect it to be able to adjust to eating raw when the kibble she is
still feeding is sabotaging her half hearted efforts and causing the
dog discomfort.
I'd fast him for a meal or a day. Offer plenty of water.

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[rawfeeding] Re: Hi...I'm New Too ...Thanks for your help

Just want to say thanks to everyone for their input. It all makes
such sense when I stop thinking with my stomach and body...I feel
like I should have "DUH" tatooed on my forhead. It is a wonder that
my dogs speak to me at all :-0

Regarding my initial post:
>
Are there diet considerations that apply to mature to senior dogs

*****
> Your dogs are not seniors except in the mind of the dogfood
> industry.
----------
Thanks. They don't seem old to me, either.

*****
> What prevents joint inflammation is a good diet in a healthy
> lifestyle, and genetics.
-----------

Yep. Nothing to say but, "Duh".

*****
> I've pretty much decided that, as long as supplements do not
impact the effectiveness of a good raw diet OR act suppressively on
disease, whatever supps one wants to feed is just not my concern.

------------

I'm pretty sure that whatever "supplements" I've given them were
designed to make me feel better - just like the whole unfortunate
mainstream (Hopefully not for long) indoctrination in
anthropomorphised diet, training and lifestle of our "domesticated"
pets.
And TCM is mainly about basic, balanced nutrition and lifestyle,
addressing and treating imbalances - if and when - to prevent or
reverse chronic, systemic disease. So let's just let them find their
natural balance by letting them be the carnivores they are and then,
if there are problems, they will probably present very clearly and
treatment will be straightforward.

> > Finally, the age old question: my dogs eat grass.
> *****
> Who knows.
> If you are feeding a good raw diet and they choose to eat grass to
> add what's missing (assuming something is, which would almost
> certainly be a premature conclusion), then they are effectively
> dealing with the deficit and you should be pleased that they are.
>
-------
Right. Just because I wouldn't eat it...as far as lepto

> *****
> Why? Where is this grass they eat? In an flooded cow pasture or
a swamp or other low-lying areas likely to accumulate urine? Or in
> your yard? What wild animals visit your yard? Standing water is
> more usually implicated in lepto than grass, no?

Chris O
--------
Actually, the property on which I live (I don't own it or have any
control over it's maintenance) is more woods than yard and does have
a shallow, mucky pond at the bottom of a hollow. It is fed by run
off and drains into a larger, lower pond, so it's not
exactly "standing" water and we have lots of frogs, lizards, little
snakes and turtles - including some huge snappers - which helps with
mosquitos. But it needs to be dredged/cleaned out. We have quite a
wildlife population including deer, swans and/or geese (when the
snappers don't eat or scare them away), the occasional hawk and
heron, 'coons, possums haven't seen coyotes, but they are around. So
it isn't just a yard. There are multiple families with pets and kids
living here my guys are never outside alone or unsupervised. I don't
let them swim in or drink the water and try to keep them from eating
or rolling in any parting gifts from our wildlife neighbors. So, yes
there are considerations..
But it really always comes down to keeping them healthy, busy and
strong - more of which should be observation, assessment and
adjustment rather than artificial "preventative" measures - and
mostly keeping it simple - natural and species appropriate.
>
Thanks for your wisdom and infinite patience, y'all.
Marguerite
>


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[rawfeeding] Re: Question switching to raw when you have been feeding kibble? Help please.

Hi, Charlene!
Tell your friend to get off the fence and give the whole prey model a
real chance!
Kibble and raw digest at different rates. Its not fair to the dog to
expect it to be able to adjust to eating raw when the kibble she is
still feeding is sabotaging her half hearted efforts and causing the
dog discomfort.
I'd fast him for a meal or a day. Offer plenty of water.
She should go to the store and buy several whole chickens, on her way
she should stop off at the local animal shelter and donate the kibble.
Have her cut the chickens into pieces - how big is the dog? Cut the
chicken into 4 pieces for a medium/large dog, 8 pieces for a small
dog, 12 pieces for a tiny dog.
The next meal, have her feed a portion. Less is better than a full
portion at this point. Too much new food can cause diarrhea, too. She
can always increase the portion size later.
How old is the pup? If under 5 months, feed three times a day. Between
5 to 9 or 10 months, feed twice a day. Over that, you could stay with
twice a day for now, then move to once a day feeding after a week or two.
If the pup truly has diarrhea, watery, uncontrollable stools, not just
soft poops, and it persists, she can trim visible fat from the
portions for now. She could also cut off some of the skin for awhile.
Slippery Elm Bark Powder is a soothing herb that can help with
digestive irritation; http://fiascofarm.com/herbs/supplements.htm She
can buy it online or at a health food store. Mix the herb dose with a
bit of diced up chicken and feed up to three times a day.
HTH
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> Hello Everyone!
> My friend feeds kibble she decided to switch to raw. She fed raw
and then fed 4 hours later some kibble is this going to hurt her pup?
> Charlene
Pup has Diarrhea now. What do you think she should do?
I told her stop the kibble and don't feed anything else tonight and
start raw completely tomorrow?!...
Charlene


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Re: [rawfeeding] Question switching to raw when you have been feeding kibble? Help please.

Hi Jeni,
It is not my pup it is my freidns I am trying to help her she doesn't have a computer
right now! She always been a kibble feeder.
I told her to pick one or the other not back and forth.
She said she was going to full raw after tonights scare
and I told her to introduce raw meats with bones one at a time slowly....
Thanks, Charlene

John and Jeni Blackmon <jonjeni777@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
IMHO, Kibble is a slow death, but that is a bit strong, so no, it probably won't hurt the dog, won't do it any good, defeats the purpose, why bother, and so on, so no need to go raw if you are doing the kibble, kinda thing?
Jeni


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Re: [rawfeeding] Re: New dog here, need some help

Giselle,
would it be ok to start her out on meat and worry about bones and stuff later?
Jeni


----- Original Message ----
From: Giselle <megan.giselle@gmail.com>
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 10:14:26 PM
Subject: [rawfeeding] Re: New dog here, need some help

Hi, Jeni!
At the supermarket, game hens come to mind. And small fish, rabbit,
pork riblets, chunks cut from beef heart, pork roasts and lamb.
Before you get to the grocery store, you could feed portions from
chicken breasts, they're meaty and the ribs are small and easily
chewed by a little one.
You can get rats, mice, chicks and other small prey online. There's
been several links posted to their websites recently, but I don't use
'em, so can't think of the names off hand.
HTH
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> Ok I have two danes, that's a no brainer, here's my problem:
> My Aunt passed, and I now have her approximately 3 year old Pomchi,
little dog. I want to switch her to raw. I have never seen such a
small mouth before, it's smaller than mine! Even her teeth are
smaller than mine!
so want to start right away, just don't know what to do to start her
on it.???

> Jeni


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[rawfeeding] Re: New dog here, need some help

Hi, Jeni!
At the supermarket, game hens come to mind. And small fish, rabbit,
pork riblets, chunks cut from beef heart, pork roasts and lamb.
Before you get to the grocery store, you could feed portions from
chicken breasts, they're meaty and the ribs are small and easily
chewed by a little one.
You can get rats, mice, chicks and other small prey online. There's
been several links posted to their websites recently, but I don't use
'em, so can't think of the names off hand.
HTH
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> Ok I have two danes, that's a no brainer, here's my problem:
> My Aunt passed, and I now have her approximately 3 year old Pomchi,
little dog. I want to switch her to raw. I have never seen such a
small mouth before, it's smaller than mine! Even her teeth are
smaller than mine!
so want to start right away, just don't know what to do to start her
on it.???

> Jeni

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Re: [rawfeeding] Re: Bacteria Infection?

Why wouldn't you get responses? Because I highly doubt there is anyone on
this list who has experienced a salmonella or e-coli infection in their raw
fed dog. It's just not a common occurrence.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "guin4340" <gogogypsy@gmail.com>

i never said there was a problem...and i don't understand your comment that
i wouldn't get
responses


--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee Lee" <rlee@...> wrote:
>
> I doubt you are going to get any responses to this one....why would you
> think there would be a problem?


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Re: [rawfeeding] Re: FISH OIL IN HUMAN GRADE CAPSULES, OK?

Hello Denise'-)

I purchased at Wal-mart Spring Valley Omega3 fish oil soft gels 1000 mg.
It say it has SOY in it I don't feed soy products to my animals!
Where did you find the one without soy? And this one is human grade!

Thanks,Charlene

PS. Just wanted to say how nice and helpiful everyone has been.
I joined the list because I knew I didn't know it all.
But I know 15 yrs of raw feeding and my animals look and act great!
I do have to say I knew only of meat with bone, pork, beef, turkey, chicken more meat than bone. I feed they small and very large bones.
Organ meat I had no ideal about till lately.
Due to making sure all three of my pups were getting what they needed
And thanks Laurie for telling me about kibble and raw digesting faster :-)
And I have always fed yogurt and cottage cheese about every other day
they might not need it?
But if it doesn't hurt them??? it is a nice cool treat for them in Texas's heat.
And big water tubs..lol


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Re: [rawfeeding] Moxie and pork

Are you talking about not since Monday, yesterday? That's not long! Are you in California? maybe it's the heat? My dogs are both not eating much, but they are both drinking and playing, so I know it's the heat. Doesn't sound like an allergic thing either, but the meds might make it sick too. Can you hold off and get some liquid into Moxie and try some other kind of food?
jeni
Maybe see if someone else has a different idea?


----- Original Message ----
From: Jai <JRedwing@alltel.net>
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 5:11:42 PM
Subject: [rawfeeding] Moxie and pork


I just called my vet because my Moxie, a 4 mo. whatever dog weighing
about 40#'s has not wanted to eat since Monday morning. No other
symptoms except just lazing around, his temp is 101.9. She said that
all dogs cannot handle raw pork, and maybe that is his problem.
Suggested I feed him clear liquids (I just happen to have turkey broth
from when I slow cooked some last weekend), pedialite, pepto bismol, and
give him Cephalexin 500mg. twice a day that I have on hand, until he is
ready to eat. I have seen him vomit only once, just a little while ago,
clear. It is has been hard because I have had to be out of the house
for 2 days now, and not been able to monitor him. I plan to take him
with me tomorrow, so I can keep a watch on him. Any suggestions from
you all?

BTW, I got from my young butcher about 80#'s of meat today for $13.00.
Pork picnics, hamburger chubs, chicken thigh quarters, and tilapia
fish. This is great for I am really broke this week and was real
concerned if I would be able to get enough food for them.

Thanks for everything,
Jai


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Re: [rawfeeding] New to this! HELP!

What is she vomiting up? It sounds like she is getting rid of something. I don't usually panic unless something else is going on, high fever, muscle spasms, can't bring up something when they vomit, that kind of stuff, then panic. Is she ok other than the vomit and pooing? Maybe just getting rid of old bad kibble? Could she have gotten into something outside? Or into something inside that she shouldn't have? If she is getting it out, let her, if no other signs, that is ok, as long as she drinks and still will eat for you when the time comes, and is active, she should be ok. But others will chime in I'm sure:) Keep doing what you're doing, it's ok, sometimes they need to get rid of stuff, and that is ok too:)
Jeni

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Re: [rawfeeding] Question switching to raw when you have been feeding kibble? Help please.

IMHO, Kibble is a slow death, but that is a bit strong, so no, it probably won't hurt the dog, won't do it any good, defeats the purpose, why bother, and so on, so no need to go raw if you are doing the kibble, kinda thing?
Jeni

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[rawfeeding] New dog here, need some help

Ok I have two danes, that's a no brainer, here's my problem:
My Aunt passed, and I now have her approximately 3 year old Pomchi, little dog. I want to switch her to raw. I have never seen such a small mouth before, it's smaller than mine! Even her teeth are smaller than mine!
What do I start her with? Can she do chicken wings? I've never had to buy small, always big and bigger, They look as big as her?!
She is very hairy, 11.6 pounds, and seems healthy, we are going for a check up next week. I want her to get comfortable first. And she has separation anxiety really bad, she was with my Aunts body for a while before they found her, and that is affecting her really bad (sorry, about the details, just wanted to get some help for the dog without drugs) I was wondering if there was some way I could help her calm down some naturally without drugs when we have to crate her so she won't spaz. My husband and I hate to leave her alone now.
But her food problem is the first concern of ours, she seems to itch alot, but has no fleas, so it's a skin thing, I think the diet would help with that, so want to start right away, just don't know what to do to start her on it.???
Can someone with a really tiny critter help me with this one? Like I said, the danes are a piece of cake, this little girl, well, she's won our heart, she just has a tiny little mouth:)
and no, we are not going to feed her to the danes, she's just too cute!
Jeni
Owned, operated, and often tricked by my two Great danes, Zeus and Zena, and of course Lucky the cat, and now, all our hearts captured by Daisy, our new Pomchi! (she's so tiny she's in my lap right now)

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[rawfeeding] Re: Concerning beef bones

I got lucky today and the neighbor that has cattle!
He slaughtered a cow and gave me half. Lucky I have a outside
freezer I plugged it in and loaded it down:-)
He told me that he throw the organs out I told him I love to have them
he said get ready:-)
And everyones tummies are full and after eating they all let out happy
beautiful howls:-)Except the dogs they barked and tried to do a good
howl lol...
Charlene

>
> woofwoofgrrl <cmc4lists1@> wrote:
> >
> > Why do you consider the beef rib slabs PITA?
> > Are they considered a dental risk?
> *****
> Truth be told, I'm spoiled by meals that more meat and less bone. Or
> one bigger bone. It's true, I confess.
>
>

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Re: [rawfeeding] The success of Raw feeding or How long have you been at it?

> So I thought it would be encouraging to me and others to hear the
> stories of how long you have been doing this. A few success stories
> would be good to hear also.

Pauline,

You may want to check the archives on "how long" and "success" in your
search. But I can tell you that I've been feeding raw for over six years
now and will never, ever go back to anything else.

My terrier girl had early onset arthritis when we started raw. I went from
high grade (read "only available in the health food store") dog food to home
cooking organic lamb and rice and still she would limp every morning and
every evening. But now, more than six years later, my girl no longer limps
in the mornings and only limps at night if she's been body-slammed during
play with dogs three times her size. Her injury recovery time is much
better too, despite the fact that she's twice the age she was when we
started this!

And...as I type this, my cat sits next to me (she wants to go outside, but
it's after midnight local time and I'm going to have to tell her no on this
one). I am convinced that she would not be with me today if it weren't for
switching to raw so many years ago. She's 20 years old now and still feisty
enough to be a PITA at 4am when she wants something from me!

Casey

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[rawfeeding] Re: Pig's Feet

Thank you Lora I got the pig's feet from Creston Valley Meats in California. I am not sure from where the hogs are from. I can ask them.

Floss? LOL Hair? Well, actually, I like that idea... Gosh they look so much like some of the biggest hogs' feet in the world! I should be glad! It was just different from my average pork experience. And to think of alll those poor little guys running around without their feet?
(j/k)

Anyway one of my non-raw feeding friends wrote me and told me not to feed raw pork to dogs. Well, already done that. It wasn't as problem... She said they could get all kinds of diseases such as worms.

But based upon what you are saying, that is not necessarily so.

Darlyne


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Re: [rawfeeding] Formally, Concerning beef bones now grains and glands

John, I think everyone here has skirted around your question alittle. Yes, the anal glands do need to be worked, and yes, they do get worked when the poop is excreeted correctly, and with the right diet, that happens, and imho, the prey model diet is the right diet for my dogs.
It's up to you to choose for your dogs, but oatmeal is not something they would normally find on thier own in the wild if they were wild. If you keep the diet really prey like, they will have the right kind of poop and the anal glands should act accordingly, and be just fine.
Get started, get off the fence, you'll be fine!
Jeni


----- Original Message ----
From: john woodlief <imclumbi@yahoo.com>
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 8:03:28 PM
Subject: [rawfeeding] Formally, Concerning beef bones now grains and glands

PITA, Pain in the a**.

He He, thank you!!!!!
Well I do have another question that I hope some will
answer (since I am new to this). In my research so
far, I see no evidence for grain in the diet, yet some
say dogs need it to expel the anal glands, my thinking
so far is wouldn't the firm stool from RMB take care
of this?
Mind you we have not started raw yet but are ready
(researching like crazy just want to find our way)
and could use some Mentoring :-)
Thank You
John & Naiza

John & Naiza Woodlief / KING CLUMBERS
http://www.kingclum berspaniels. com/

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[rawfeeding] Re: Bacteria Infection?

++++Mod note: Ok, you have to sign your emails. No exceptions. +++++++++

i never said there was a problem...and i don't understand your comment that i wouldn't get
responses


--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee Lee" <rlee@...> wrote:
>
> I doubt you are going to get any responses to this one....why would you
> think there would be a problem?


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[rawfeeding] Re: FISH OIL IN HUMAN GRADE CAPSULES, OK?

I meant for animals who dont tolerate soy, try human grade fish oil
capsules as it delivers in a pure form. No soy in fish oil capsules.:)

Denise


--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "costrowski75" <Chriso75@...>
wrote:
>
> "alliecaracleo" <alliecaracleo@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Everyone.
> >
> > I give my cats fish oil from the capsules and no prob with the
soy
> > issues. Is this not a good way to supplement?
> *****
> If your cat has no problems with soy, then you should carry on!
> Chris O
>


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[rawfeeding] Re: The success of Raw feeding or How long have you been at it?

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "costrowski75" <Chriso75@...> wrote:
One "allergic" golden was promptly
> no longer allergic to half the things on Earth.

ok . . . i hve a few questions, as i ahve two allergic goldens!!

how did you know your dog was allergic to stuff . . . did you have tests run, or was it just
elimination??

and . . . this is my real question . . .
if the allergy test says the dog is allergic to say, chicken, did you find that he could eat raw
chicken?

and, if that's the case . . . can you explain why? i don't understand . . . but it would sure
make feeding easier ifmy goldens weren't alelrgic to half the food on the planet!

...katie

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[rawfeeding] Re: Why gorge and fast? and what about organ meat?

Wow, this is really fascinating. I'm still new to the group and fairly
new to total raw, RMB, prey model feeding. It makes so much sense and
my dogs have responded so well that I feel sort of foolish not having
started sooner.
It seems that the general opinion on the gorge/fast is to work up to
it. Might someone give me a suggestion as to how to do that? My dogs
are 40 and 45 lb. Aussies. They currently get fed once a day and I'm
ststill playing with amounts, but they get about 1 lb. a day.
Also, how do you include organ meat into the equation - just give them
a hunk of liver, heart, kidney along with - or instead of? - a hunk of
meat with bone in (for red meats - I can't quite manage large whole
carcasses)? If I just give them a chicken with all it's innards (even
if they don't finish it in one sitting) that pretty much balances the
ratio itself, right?
I looked at bone-in picnic pork roasts yesterday and even the smaller
ones were HUGE. Could I try just putting the whole thing down (one for
each) and seeing how they do? I've never fed pork before, so I got
some really meaty pork necks to try. Is that a good choice for intro
to pork?
I have to say, I really get a kick out of Emma, who is such a dainty
eater, getting down and dirty with a turkey leg! LOL
Thanks,
Marguerite

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[rawfeeding] Re: Question switching to raw when you have been feeding kibble? Help please.

Pup has Diarrhea now. What do you think she should do?
I told her stop the kibble and don't feed anything else tonight and
start raw completely tomorrow?!...
Charlene

Randy & Charlene Harrison <bluemoonwolfster@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hello Everyone!
My friend feed's Kibble she decided to switch to raw. She fed raw and then fed 4 hours later some kibble is this going to hurt her pup?
Charlene

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[rawfeeding] Re: The success of Raw feeding or How long have you been at it?

"Pauline" <pblondeau46@...> wrote:
>> I read somewhere on the INTERNET the start of an article from a
vet that
> said that raw feeding was a dangerous fad.
*****
In the scheme of things, kibble is indeed the dangerous fad. When
you compare the extremes--"predators eating prey" versus "predators
eating grain-based cooked product" it's clear what process is the
newcomer. And even if you compare the more subtle "dog eating
kitchen scraps" to "dog eating processed commercial meal" there's no
question that in the years before WWII commercial dog meal was indeed
the suspicious-sounding young upstart.

It benefits the dogfood industry to present commercial food as the
standard against which all other ways of feeding are measured.
That's all.

Generally, our vets have no training in nutrition, no time to make up
for the oversight, and little motivation to do so: the dogfood
companies are more than willing to tell them what they need to know,
and then, relieved of any further responsibility, the vet tells us
what the dogfood rep told him.


It makes me doubt and fear what I am doing. I am easily shaken
> cause I'm new to this.
*****
Well sure. When you hear such accusations, ask who benefits from the
claim? Your dog? I doubt it.


Also we had a collie pup of 6 months get sick and
> die on us. They did not know the cause.
*****
How awful. I'm terribly sorry to read of your loss.


> Can anyone share of their experiences with Raw feeding?
*****
I've been feeding raw for a mere seven years. A rank beginner. It's
hard to say how my dogs are better for it or even if they are. Not
like I can raise 'em up one way, then go back and raise 'em up again,
differently (though wouldn't it be wonderful?).

What have I seen? Less stool, better coats. Harder bodies. One
picky eater turned into a fabulous poster child for ripping and
tearing species appropriate food. One "allergic" golden was promptly
no longer allergic to half the things on Earth.

Some dogs, I think, experience tremendous, life-saving improvement on
raw food. Others just continue with their lives, hopefully a little
happier for getting food that is kinder to their bodies, hopefully
enjoying the taste and sound and feel of species appropriate food.

I switched initially to help the picky eater; the rest of the dogs
just followed along. It wasn't as if I set out to change the world,
just the diet thank you. Because it was the right thing to do.
Chris O

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[rawfeeding] Re: Gizzards are muscle

Caren wrote:

> Gizzards are muscle like the heart?

I haven't found them to be rich like heart (with the anticipated "bowel
tolerance" issue). You mileage may vary.

> With Cavalier King Charles Spaniels loose poops become an ordeal (as much hair on their rears as I have on my head).

I'm not sure whose photo I want to see now!


Lora
Evanston, IL


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[rawfeeding] Re: lamb rib bones

Yassy wrote:

>>Around here, lamb ribs are sold as lamb breast
>
>Hi,Deb. So, if the rib is called that way then,is it quite meaty?

This article is an interesting high-level introduction to beef cuts and
includes the following:

"RULE OF THUMB: The fat content in all four-legged animals is the highest at
the front of the animal, . . . and the lowest at the rear of the animal. . .
. In between is pretty much a uniform scale . . .

>http://www.thehealthybutcher.com/livetoeat/volume2/LiveToEat-Volume2-Beef_Basics.html

This explains why the lamb breast is very fatty, not meaty like a chicken.

> I am not quite understand the difference between Lack of lamb/Lamb chop and Lamb Rib.
> Because the bone with those products look like rib bone. Do you think if you see the Lamb chop,thenthe bone is just Frenched to look nicer and the bone actually is from Rib??

A Visual Comparison of Beef, Lamb, and Pork Primal Cuts
>http://www.thehealthybutcher.com/BeekLambPorkComparison.html

Then click on "Breaking Down the Beef/Lamb/Pork" links at the bottom of the
page.

> And,is it soft bone for dog to consume? I may have to give it to dog and see how she does though.

Yes, my English Setters can chew up lamb bones.

Lora
Evanston, IL


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[rawfeeding] Re: cleaver

yassy wrote:

> I do whack to cut things like Turkey but,I maybe not good whacker.. Everytime I hit the meat, I tend to hit bunch of different section and it gets messy cut. Maybe i need to practicce whacking too...

You might also try setting the cleaver on your target and use a RUBBER mallet
to strike the back edge of the cleaver.

Lora
Evanston, IL


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Re: [rawfeeding] Formally, Concerning beef bones now grains and glands

Carol,

This is nonsense. Why would something that is totally species inappropriate
be necessary to control pH? Makes no sense at all...dump it! Everything a
dog needs is included in the prey model...meat, bones and organs.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Carol Santangelo" <carol.santangelo@gmail.com>


> I was wondering about grains too. I have been trying to learn all I can
> about raw feeding over the past 3 weeks and I have been told by someone to
> feed oatmeal twice a week to keep the dogs pH correct. This person said
she
> knew of someone who didn't feed oatmeal (or some other form of grain) and
> their dog got kidney stones. All of this was supposedly corrected when
they
> started feeding oatmeal twice a week. I have fed it a couple of times and
> my Frenchie eats it no problem, but my Bullmastiff puppy eats a little and
> then wants nothing to do with it. Any suggestions or advice would be
> appreciated.

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[rawfeeding] Re: Formally, Concerning beef bones now grains and glands

Hi Carol,

I can't offer specifics, but just encourage you to question these
kinds of stories/statements. Oatmeal isn't something wolves/dogs
would eat in the wild. These legends get passed around and who even
knows what the truth was? What kind of diet was the person feeding?
Perhaps the oatmeal acted like a supplement or drug to shift a
symptom that might arise on a less-than-optimal diet, but the oatmeal
would probably end up causing other problems. But it wouldn't even
be worth thinking about if the diet were correct in the first place.

My .02,

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Carol Santangelo"
<carol.santangelo@...> wrote:
>
> I was wondering about grains too. I have been trying to learn all
I can
> about raw feeding over the past 3 weeks and I have been told by
someone to
> feed oatmeal twice a week to keep the dogs pH correct. This person
said she
> knew of someone who didn't feed oatmeal (or some other form of
grain) and
> their dog got kidney stones.

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[rawfeeding] Re: The success of Raw feeding or How long have you been at it?

Hi Pauline,

I've been feeding my dog raw for 5-1/2 yrs. The closer I've gotten to
nature, the healthier he's gotten. I started out w/"healthy/premium"
kibbles and he had horrible gas with each one. Then I went to the pre-
packaged raw mixes, which he did ok on (no gas), but was pooping lots
of orange (carrots!). We started "making" our own raw mixes of mostly
ground turkey and chicken with pureed veggies, and supplementing
with "rec" bones. We've been doing prey model with no veggies for
about 8 mos. and his yeasty ears have finally cleared up, his teeth
look great, he poops a lot less and he no longer "scoots" his butt.

This isn't a lifetime for us, but it is for wild wolves, and all other
creatures on earth, for that matter. What animal cooks its food?

It's tough to buck the system, but just keep thinking critically. Do
you have any specific concerns about the diet?

Laurie

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Re: [rawfeeding] The success of Raw feeding or How long have you been at it?

Pauline,

Feeding a species appropriate diet is not a fad. Processed food is a fad!
Dogs/wolves have been eating the way nature designed since time began.

Feeding species appropriate should not be a worry. There are many on this
list who have never fed differently. Some of us 6/7 years, others less.
What matters is that this is the way they are meant to eat, it is not a fad,
and certainly not detrimental.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Pauline" <pblondeau46@yahoo.ca>

>
> I have a question as to how long you have all been feeding your dogs
> raw. It's comforting for us newbies to know that this works long term.
>
> I read somewhere on the INTERNET the start of an article from a vet that
> said that raw feeding was a dangerous fad. I hate to hear things like
> that. It makes me doubt and fear what I am doing. I am easily shaken
> cause I'm new to this. Also we had a collie pup of 6 months get sick and
> die on us. They did not know the cause. This has always bothered me and
> now I am a continual worry wart when it comes to my dog Gracie.

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[rawfeeding] Re: Formally, Concerning beef bones now grains and glands

That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me and all I know is my dog
stopped scooting when I removed all grains and veggies from his diet.
It didn't completely go away until I removed the veggies. Whether the
bone, fur, hide, etc. acts similar to grains in adding bulk, or what--I
don't know exactly why meat, bones, and organs works, but it's nature
and it does!

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, john woodlief <imclumbi@...> wrote:
> I see no evidence for grain in the diet, yet some
> say dogs need it to expel the anal glands, my thinking
> so far is wouldn't the firm stool from RMB take care
> of this?


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[rawfeeding] New puppy with diarrhea...

Hello everyone! I have had my aussie puppy (Loki) now for a week and
he is doing great, eating well on the raw diet, meat, bones and
everything. So far he has been getting chicken and pork. My concern is
that he has had diarrhea since he started his new diet. When he poos
there is very little that comes out, and what does come out is mostly
liquid. He has had a few harder stools, but those have been rare. I
was anticipating some diarrhea since his system is adjusting, and he
is otherwise in perfect health; a happy, bouncy, fluffy ball of
energy. I was wondering how long I should wait before becoming
concerned, is it normal for this kind of stool in the beginning?

Also, does anyone have any suggestions about getting a puppy to eat
organ meat? I have been trying to give him some liver but he
completely ignores it... is there another organ meat that may be more
palatable for a nine week old pup?

Taylor and Loki from Montreal

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Re: [rawfeeding] Formally, Concerning beef bones now grains and glands

Thank you Casey,
I did think, "Isn't this one reason I want to get away
from kibble?"
John Woodlief


--- Casey Post <mikken@neo.rr.com> wrote:

> >In my research so
> > far, I see no evidence for grain in the diet, yet
> some
> > say dogs need it to expel the anal glands, my
> thinking
> > so far is wouldn't the firm stool from RMB take
> care
> > of this?
>
> John,
>
> Your logic is fine - no, there is no need for grains
> in the carnivore's
> life. Grains contribute to all manner of health
> issues and not in a good
> way. Steer clear of them.
>
> Casey
>
>
>
>

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Re: [rawfeeding] Formally, Concerning beef bones now grains and glands

I was wondering about grains too. I have been trying to learn all I can
about raw feeding over the past 3 weeks and I have been told by someone to
feed oatmeal twice a week to keep the dogs pH correct. This person said she
knew of someone who didn't feed oatmeal (or some other form of grain) and
their dog got kidney stones. All of this was supposedly corrected when they
started feeding oatmeal twice a week. I have fed it a couple of times and
my Frenchie eats it no problem, but my Bullmastiff puppy eats a little and
then wants nothing to do with it. Any suggestions or advice would be
appreciated.

Carol (Bruno and Zoe's mom)

On 6/20/07, john woodlief <imclumbi@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> Well I do have another question that I hope some will
> answer (since I am new to this). In my research so
> far, I see no evidence for grain in the diet, yet some
> say dogs need it to expel the anal glands, my thinking
> so far is wouldn't the firm stool from RMB take care
> of this?
>
> Thank You
> John & Naiza
>


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[rawfeeding] Re: Turkey Legs

Hi, Liz!
What size dog does she have?
Any kind of bone pieces have never been a problem for me. Or my dogs.
She could always just pick up the pieces she thinks are too pointy.
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> My sister recently switched to raw feeding (with my encouragement).
> She is concerned with turkey legs. She tried them the other night and
> she noticed they splintered more than the chicken legs. Now she is
> scared to feed them.
>
> Anyone have experience with feeding turkey legs? I haven't tried them
> yet.
>
> Liz T
> MN
>


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Re: [rawfeeding] Turkey Legs

I have golden retreivers and westies. My goldens can handle the turkey legs without any difficulty. My westies can handle the neck and wings.
It all depends on your dog.
laura

Liz <tvliz24@izoom.net> wrote: My sister recently switched to raw feeding (with my encouragement).
She is concerned with turkey legs. She tried them the other night and
she noticed they splintered more than the chicken legs. Now she is
scared to feed them.

Anyone have experience with feeding turkey legs? I haven't tried them
yet.

Liz T
MN




Laura Wilburn

www.pathfindergoldens.com


---------------------------------
Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles.
Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.

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[rawfeeding] Re: Concerned about food getting all over fur on face and ears

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "bluegracepwd" <janea@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Gloria,
>
> bacteria is everywhere. It's all over your keyboard, for example, so
> ensure you don't let your kids near it!
>
> Yup, all my dogs have coats etc. We had a good laugh yesterday when
> we gave the pups a calf to eat, and several ended up with a red face,
> when they should have had white! So that gets a quick wipe over with
> a towel before they come inside, but that's about it.
>
> And yes, I have a kid too.
>
> cheers,
>
> Jane
>Hi Jane,
Thanks for your input. I've seen your dogs online and yes they have
similar coats to mine. Maybe I am just overly precautious but it's
great to get feedback from those wiht more experience.
Gloria


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[rawfeeding] Re: Why gorge and fast?

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "fstwrtr2000" <fstwrtr2000@...>
wrote:
>
> I Gorge and fast for a couple of reasons:
> if we are on a 2 or 3 day road trip i dont bother bringing food for my
> dobe and he couldn't care less, water is all he needs..great for
> convenience

I also take advantage of this when I am out of town for a weekend. The
dog sitter can spend all their time playing and walking the pups -- no
need to feed.

Kathy R

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[rawfeeding] Re: Throwing up

Andrea thanks for the suggestions. I don't however feed at any
certain times...it does seem though that he doesn't vomit when I
feed later vs earlier in the evening. I think I will try a bedtime
snack and see if that helps.

The pup was just dewormed two days ago as they found hook and round
worms so you might be right...the poop was gelatinous and now is
just soft almost liquid like. I am going to give her a few more
days to adjust before I decide to change how many times I feed
her...cause right now she is actually eating three times a day...rmb
in the morning and sometime in the afternoon and then muscle meat
and organ meat at night...I follow a somewhat 60/35/5 % structure.

Angela

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Andrea" <poketmouse45@...> wrote:
>
> My dog used to vomit bile pretty often when we started. I fed him
on
> a pretty regular basis from day to day. Once I changed up the
feeding
> times so he didn't know when to expect the food, the bile vomit
> stopped.
>
> About the puppy, when you say "the stool has yet to form" does
that
> mean it is soft or is it gelatinous? If it is soft, I would think
the
> pup might need less food more often. If she eats twice a day,
feed
> the same amount of food just broken up into three meals a day. If
the
> poo looks gelatinous, I would suspect parasites of some sort.
>
> Andrea
>


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[rawfeeding] Re: was/ Dalmation...feeding/ gorge meals help with begging...

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Randy & Charlene Harrison
<bluemoonwolfster@...> wrote:
Only have the food problem. How do I stop this food problem? What kind
of training for that!
> Charlene

To stay somewhat ON topic... Gorge/Fast may very well help here. She
will learn that she eats her food when it is given to her and that that
might not be everyday... but when she if fed she will be able to stuff
her greedy little belly full to the top, and be happy! Food will again
become just food - a way to stay alive, and not a way to get attention..

Clearly she knows how to do what she is trained to do. So, she must
have been trained to act this way. Or, she has trained you to let her
act this way -- more likely.

If she is never rewarded for her over the top begging, it will stop.
If however she is seen as cute and tidbits are tossed to her, even once
every 20 or 30 times, it will not stop. And, if she is rewarded once in
a while on a variable schedule, you are truly proofing the behavior to
last a lifetime. She is playing the slot machines.... and she is sure
the jackpot is just one more begging session away....

If everyone stops even acknowledging her when she is acting this way,
totally ignore her, it will stop. IF she has been dong it for a while,
it will take a long tme to stop and it will get worse before it gets
better. And, if you give in even once you will have to start all over
again.


Kathy R


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[rawfeeding] Re: hungry puppy

Hi, Jen!
Young pups need to be fed 3 times a day.
You could divide up what his daily portion would be into 3.
Some people determine their pups daily ration by using 10% of their
adult estimated weight.
I prefer to give a pup a big ole hunk of meat and let him at it! When
he's eaten as much as he wants, say after 10-15 minutes, I take it up.
Pups that are allowed to eat this way get more activity from their
meals, are more satisfied, don't eat/chew up as many off limits items
and learn how to self regulate - IMO.
You could move him to 2 meals a day at about 6 months, then 1 meal a
day at 9-12 months.
HTH
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey


> As I mentioned, I got a new puppy last Thursday, and he's being
> rawfed.
He's about 20 pounds now, black lab mix, estimated to reach 80.
Should I feed him 2 meals a day instead of
> one, give him just a little more food, or is he just adjusting to the
> new diet?
Oh, his paperwork says he's 4
> months old, but he may be as young as 2 months.
> Jen


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