Feed Pets Raw Food: Sep 19, 2007

Wednesday, September 19, 2007

[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12050

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: UK suppliers
From: caroline gebbie

2a. Re: Help with new puppies....
From: Cindy Marabito

3a. Re: Suggestions for a dog who HATES beef liver!
From: kaylsraven
3b. Re: Suggestions for a dog who HATES beef liver!
From: steph.sorensen
3c. Re: Suggestions for a dog who HATES beef liver!
From: steph.sorensen
3d. Re: Suggestions for a dog who HATES beef liver!
From: Yasuko herron

4a. Re: update on Cairn puppy that would not eat
From: one_sojourner_one

5a. Re: Help!! Does my girl need calcium? Does my boy need more meat?
From: mrskheath
5b. Re: Help!! Does my girl need calcium? Does my boy need more meat?
From: mrskheath

6a. Newbie: looking for the ingredants for Raw Feeding
From: Jagbarbie
6b. Re: Newbie: looking for the ingredants for Raw Feeding
From: Sandee Lee

7a. Re: Older dog with diarrhea- help
From: Sandee Lee

8a. New to group I need help!
From: Megan
8b. Re: New to group I need help!
From: Sandee Lee

9a. Why don't vets recommend raw food?
From: jend404
9b. Re: Why don't vets recommend raw food?
From: Tina Berry
9c. Re: Why don't vets recommend raw food?
From: rosey031801
9d. Re: Why don't vets recommend raw food?
From: Sandee Lee
9e. Re: Why don't vets recommend raw food?
From: Lauren
9f. can't gain weight
From: Jon Warner

10a. Swallowing food whole
From: abeautiful3
10b. Re: Swallowing food whole
From: Sandee Lee

11a. Are once a day feedings a good idea?
From: Kelly P
11b. Re: Are once a day feedings a good idea?
From: Sandee Lee

12a. Re: Feeding Heads
From: Renate

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Re: UK suppliers
Posted by: "caroline gebbie" caz320ml@yahoo.com caz320ml
Date: Wed Sep 19, 2007 7:11 am ((PDT))

Sandra thanks for that great information. I have contacted the suppliers and am waiting on price lists. Now looking for a second freezer and then ready to start.

Caroline, Bonnie and Londo

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Messages in this topic (2)
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2a. Re: Help with new puppies....
Posted by: "Cindy Marabito" doggirl1@earthlink.net rowdycowgirl50
Date: Wed Sep 19, 2007 7:11 am ((PDT))

Thanks for the great advice..I'm forwarding to my sister..Cindy

Messages in this topic (4)
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3a. Re: Suggestions for a dog who HATES beef liver!
Posted by: "kaylsraven" kaylsraven@yahoo.com kaylsraven
Date: Wed Sep 19, 2007 7:56 am ((PDT))

Howdy.

Another option, if you can get ahold of green tripe--my guys never had
a problem with liver, but some of the more random organs I manage to
score at times, they don't like. So I comandeered a blender at my
place, mix a mess of various organs together (more finely chopped than
blended to puree), and freeze them in ice cube trays. One frozen organ-
cube gives you about one ounce, so perfect measure, and the healthy
dose of tripe in the mix means that they'll it them with glee no
matter what else is in it.

Good luck!

Sabrina 'n the gang

Messages in this topic (11)
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3b. Re: Suggestions for a dog who HATES beef liver!
Posted by: "steph.sorensen" steph.sorensen@yahoo.com steph.sorensen
Date: Wed Sep 19, 2007 6:01 pm ((PDT))

LOL, I already have a second dog. Scarlet (my pit bull) is a trash
compator. She eats liver, tripe, heart, fish oil pills - you name
it, she'll eat it! But Lucy has always been the picky one.

I just tried freezing it, and still no go. I ended up feeding it to
Scarlet AGAIN! I may try searing it just a little and seeing if
she'll eat it that way tomorrow.

I will also be looking for other species' liver. She doesn't like
chicken liver either. She eats the other chicken organs, but not the
liver.

And a third dog is not an option! ;-)

-Steph
Scarlet, Lucy and Minkey (the kitty)

> > From: "steph.sorensen" <steph.sorensen@>
> >
> > I have been trying for days to feed Lucy some beef liver, and she
> just
> > can't stand it! She eats heart, she eats tripe, but not the liver!
> >
> > What are some good alternatives that give her the same nutritional
> > value but that she may like better?
> >
> >
> > you could try getting a 2nd dog. ever sinse i moved back home, my
> dog suddenly eats anything, just so long as the other dog doesnt
get
> it, lol. i gave them a bunch of chicken gizzards and liver the
other
> day, zeke dove on it, spit it out when he realized what it was,
then
> snatched it back up when comet went to get it, lmao. first time in
> his life he ate raw liver, i've had to cook it before to get him to
> eat it, lol.
>
> kelly and zeke
> >
> > .
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your
> story.
> > Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

Messages in this topic (11)
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3c. Re: Suggestions for a dog who HATES beef liver!
Posted by: "steph.sorensen" steph.sorensen@yahoo.com steph.sorensen
Date: Wed Sep 19, 2007 6:01 pm ((PDT))

*** Mod Note: please trim your posts! ***

Sounds pretty gross, but it's a good idea! Neither one of my dogs
like frozen things though. They never even liked Frosty Paws when I
gave them.

Once I really get a variety of things in my freezer, I'll be able to
at least try things like that. Right now, all I have is beef,
venison, chicken and pork, and only beef and chicken organs. I'm
currently vying for lamb and fish too, so I'll find something they
like.

Thanks for the idea!

Steph,
Scarlet, Lucy and Minkey (the kitty)

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "kaylsraven" <kaylsraven@...>
wrote:
>
> Howdy.
>
> Another option, if you can get ahold of green tripe--my guys never
had
> a problem with liver, but some of the more random organs I manage
to
> score at times, they don't like. So I comandeered a blender at my
> place, mix a mess of various organs together (more finely chopped
than
> blended to puree), and freeze them in ice cube trays. One frozen
organ-
> cube gives you about one ounce, so perfect measure, and the healthy
> dose of tripe in the mix means that they'll it them with glee no
> matter what else is in it.
>
> Good luck!
>
> Sabrina 'n the gang
>

Messages in this topic (11)
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3d. Re: Suggestions for a dog who HATES beef liver!
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Wed Sep 19, 2007 6:59 pm ((PDT))

>I will also be looking for other species' liver. She doesn't like chicken liver either. She eats >the other chicken organs, but not the liver.

Hi,Steph.If you go to shoppers grocery store,you can get pork liver or Asian store has it.

But, like I suggested in previous post,if you get grounded tripe and if dog likes it then,you can hide it inside(I know it is gross,but I wore plastic grove and made meatball-like with tripe,maybe about 1inch or 2 and froze it. I wanted to use tripe as side dish not main.)just like you make cheesy meatball if you will; wrap the liver inside the grounded tripe and I do not think dog ever chew the swallowable size of tripe,so,that may do the trick.Tripe smell could overpower the liversmell too if you do this way and if smell was prob for the dog,you could win this way:-P

Or, thumb nail sized chunk of liver with tripe mixed very well andthen,feed it.She may and may not findit,but you do not know until you try.

Just a thought

yassy

---------------------------------
Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (11)
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4a. Re: update on Cairn puppy that would not eat
Posted by: "one_sojourner_one" onesojourner@gmail.com one_sojourner_one
Date: Wed Sep 19, 2007 9:16 am ((PDT))

ok here is my original post.

I think we have the pickiest dog ever and that's part of the reason we
wanted to try a raw diet. Our cairn is just over 4 months old and 10
pounds. We have been trying to feed him canidae and it has been hit
and miss. Tonight I thawed him a small chicken breast to see if he
would eat it. First he sat there and licked at it in the bowl. He then
picked it up and ran into the yard with it for some more licking. I
ripped a small bite size piece off for him but he just dropped it.
Finally he took the meat to a corner and buried it. He has done the
same thing with a small
cooked piece of steak. I have read about sprinkling with garlic but
thats just going to make him lick it some more. any thoughts?

-peter

Last night he finished off another small chicken breast. I diced it up
and added garlic to it. He would not eat it until I added another raw
egg to it like his first meal. This morning I thawed the breast and
then slapped it in a hot skillet for about 2 seconds on each side.
Just long enough to get it white on the outside. I then sliced it in
strips (no dicing this time) and added a little garlic powder. He ate
that even better so I am felling a lot better about things now. He is
going to try a little frozen steak for lunch and then I will see about
picking up some chicken wings or legs maybe a neck to see how he deals
with the bones. Either way he is eating a lot better than he was when
we were trying to mix the kibble with the soft food. If You or any one
else has any better suggestions as for a next step I would like to
know what I should be buying. I will be going to the store tonight.

Messages in this topic (3)
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5a. Re: Help!! Does my girl need calcium? Does my boy need more meat?
Posted by: "mrskheath" mrskheath@yahoo.co.uk mrskheath
Date: Wed Sep 19, 2007 9:40 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee Lee" <rlee@...> wrote:
>
> Karlene,
>
> Calcium comes from the bones...if you are feeding chicken, she is
getting
> plenty! Remember, only 10% bones in the overall diet is
required...whole
> chicken is around 26%. Protein and fat will provide plenty of
stamina for
> her training.
>
> Sandee & the Dane Gang
>
>

Phew, feel much better now. Thanks. (wiping brow). Great stuff.

Karlene

Messages in this topic (5)
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5b. Re: Help!! Does my girl need calcium? Does my boy need more meat?
Posted by: "mrskheath" mrskheath@yahoo.co.uk mrskheath
Date: Wed Sep 19, 2007 9:40 am ((PDT))

>
> It depends on your each dog so,you can try and see if it does good
or not good.
>
> >2nd Question...Should I be concerned about how much calcium my
young bitch is getting? >She is also a sibe and weighs 30.8 lbs.
>>
> Since I do not do any agility or some sort,so,I am not sure if it
is done or not but I think fat becomes dogs' Energy so,it maybe the
one you like to feed?
>
> Of course,if you have just started,you still need to stick to
chicken but then after chicken meal, you can move to bit fattier than
chicken and see how they do.
>
> yassy

>
> ---------------------------------
> Building a website is a piece of cake.
> Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Thanks. That helps. Yes the bitch is a pup, only 5 months too. Will
take on board your advice - thanks v much

Karlene

Messages in this topic (5)
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6a. Newbie: looking for the ingredants for Raw Feeding
Posted by: "Jagbarbie" barbie@actionweb.cc Jagbarbie
Date: Wed Sep 19, 2007 10:36 am ((PDT))

I have 2 rough Collies and want to change from pre packaged Raw Feeding
to me buying the Raw Feeding foods and preparing the meals for my dogs.

I will be staying in Dallas Texas for the next 4 months.

Please help
Barbie

Messages in this topic (2)
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6b. Re: Newbie: looking for the ingredants for Raw Feeding
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:36 am ((PDT))

Barbie,

To begin with, just start watching sale ads in your local markets. You can
generally get chickens, turkeys, beef hearts and other organs and pork quite
economically. Also look for ethnic markets, wholesalers, ranchers, meat
packers.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Jagbarbie" <barbie@actionweb.cc>

I have 2 rough Collies and want to change from pre packaged Raw Feeding
to me buying the Raw Feeding foods and preparing the meals for my dogs.

I will be staying in Dallas Texas for the next 4 months.

Messages in this topic (2)
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7a. Re: Older dog with diarrhea- help
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:22 am ((PDT))

Heidi,

I would definitely have bloodwork done on this guy. It is not unusual for
seizure meds to need some adjusting once on a raw diet...regardless, they
should be routinely checked anyway as Phenobarbital can cause liver damage.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Heidi" <troopob@yahoo.com>

AND any ideas about if the meds are now too much for him now that he
is not on dry food. Do you think the pills are causing stomach
upset (he's been on both for years and never had problems)? The
last blood work was in January and all was 'normal'.

Messages in this topic (3)
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8a. New to group I need help!
Posted by: "Megan" clothingfuryou@yahoo.com clothingfuryou
Date: Wed Sep 19, 2007 12:03 pm ((PDT))

***MODERATOR'S NOTE: PLEASE REMEMBER TO SIGN YOUR MESSAGES.***

I have 3 dogs. 1 Blue Great Dane age 4 (118 lbs) 1 Boxer/Lab age 4 (50
lbs) and a Harliquin Dane age 4 months (55 lbs) Can anyone give me a
sample diet to start off with for each of my dogs. They are my family
so they don't do agility,dog shows,and are not being bred. They are
fairly lazy indoor dogs. My Blue Dane isn't really enjoying the raw
meat so I have been cooking it medium/slightly rare. I have been
giving the raw for several weeks just as an evening snack

Messages in this topic (2)
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8b. Re: New to group I need help!
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:48 pm ((PDT))

First of all, if you haven't already, get the kibble out of the house. The
smell is powerful and carbohydrates are addictive...raw is quite bland and
some dogs will hold out if they think they have a chance at getting some of
their previous smelly food! :)

Then get yourself a few chickens, cut into quarters and hand to dogs. You
can warm it up and slice into it in a few spots to bring out the odor...I've
even smashed Parmesan cheese down into the slices to get a hesitant dog
going! :)
Feed them 2-3% of their ideal adult weight. My couch potato adult Danes eat
around 2%, maybe a little less.

Once they have adapted to digesting the chicken, you can slowly add in other
protein sources, more meat and organs.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Megan" <clothingfuryou@yahoo.com>

Messages in this topic (2)
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9a. Why don't vets recommend raw food?
Posted by: "jend404" jend404@yahoo.com jend404
Date: Wed Sep 19, 2007 2:31 pm ((PDT))

I have a 4 month old Airedale Terrier. I currently feed him 50% kibble
and 50% prepackaged raw food. The reason I haven't gone to the 0% kibble
and butcher-bought meat is that my vet has put the fear of god in to me
not to do it.

And not just this vet, but all my vets I have ever had, have been
adamant about not feeding raw food to animals. Also, I do not believe,
and refuse to accept that these people are financially motivated to push
poison. Some of them have been close, personal friends of mine and feed
their own animals package food.

The results are in for humans. It has been consistently shown in trial
after trial that humans who eat fresh and various foods do better, live
longer and avoid all kinds of cancers, heart disease, yada yada yada
than humans fed a high-sugar, processed grain and rendered meat diet.
Not one human doctor in the world would prescribe such a diet. So why
does nearly every vet say that all the scientific evidence points to
feeding a packaged food diet for dogs?

Is there real scientific evidence that raw food is better than the
high-formulated and studied commercial animal food? I am also enough of
a scientist to know that various anecdotal evidence does not a
scientific study make.

I really am ready to start going all raw but I am very afraid that if I
don't supplement with kibble that has been vitamin enriched I will harm
my dog.

Thank you
Jennifer Dudley
jend404@yahoo.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bluhousworker/sets/72157601534108200/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
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9b. Re: Why don't vets recommend raw food?
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Wed Sep 19, 2007 2:46 pm ((PDT))

"The reason I haven't gone to the 0% kibble and butcher-bought meat is that
my vet has put the fear of god in to me
not to do it."

Only because your dog will become too healthy and never need to go to the
vet again which is money out of their pocket IMO - find a raw feeding
promoting vet.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
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9c. Re: Why don't vets recommend raw food?
Posted by: "rosey031801" rosey031801@sbcglobal.net rosey031801
Date: Wed Sep 19, 2007 3:12 pm ((PDT))

I did it as an experiment. It only took my dog about three weeks to
show major improvement. Now, if your dog is perfectly healthy you may
not see results or changes but all of us urge you to do what is
ultimately the best choice for your dog. How can kibble be better? The
vet wants his money!!! That's the reason. I don't go to the vet anymore
because my dog doesn't need it now. I don't buy his drugs or his food.
Simple!!!
Cheryl and the ten year old border mix who doesn't have to have his
teeth cleaned, doesn't need drugs for his arthritis and has more energy
than ever before.

Messages in this topic (6)
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9d. Re: Why don't vets recommend raw food?
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Wed Sep 19, 2007 4:53 pm ((PDT))

Jennifer,

Here are a couple of articles that may be of interest to you...also the link
for the rawfeeding myths.

http://www.dogtorj.net/id51.html
http://rawfed.com/myths/index.html
http://web.archive.org/web/20030502044857/http://members.shaw.ca/petlife/rawpaper.htm

Whatever the reasons for vets feeding and recommending processed foods (and
there are several), it doesn't take a scientific study to prove that fresh
whole species appropriate foods are best for our pets. Nature has done that
for us. Carnivores thrived on the food they were designed to eat long
before man intervened and continue to do so.

The pet food industry is all about money and convenience, not the health of
our pets. Many of the pet food manufacturers admit this...and they also
admit dogs have no requirement for carbohydrates (your vet should know
this...it's in Merck). There is no way they can cook up a bunch of grains,
throw in some supplements, and call it healthy.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "jend404" <jend404@yahoo.com>

> > The results are in for humans. It has been consistently shown in trial
> after trial that humans who eat fresh and various foods do better, live
> longer and avoid all kinds of cancers, heart disease, yada yada yada
> than humans fed a high-sugar, processed grain and rendered meat diet.
> Not one human doctor in the world would prescribe such a diet. So why
> does nearly every vet say that all the scientific evidence points to
> feeding a packaged food diet for dogs?
>
> Is there real scientific evidence that raw food is better than the
> high-formulated and studied commercial animal food? I am also enough of
> a scientist to know that various anecdotal evidence does not a
> scientific study make.

Messages in this topic (6)
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9e. Re: Why don't vets recommend raw food?
Posted by: "Lauren" lfunaiol@yahoo.com lfunaiol
Date: Wed Sep 19, 2007 5:08 pm ((PDT))

I think that you would benefit from reading both of Tom Lonsdale's
books. They answer most all of your questions. Go to

www.rawmeatybones.com to purchase them. I did when I got started
feeding raw 2.5 years ago. I have been feeding my 4 dogs 100% raw
(prey model style) all of that time and my anecdotal evidence is that
they are all thriving and greatly improved from their kibble days.

Lauren Funaiole

Messages in this topic (6)
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9f. can't gain weight
Posted by: "Jon Warner" reefwiz@sbcglobal.net natalyavw
Date: Wed Sep 19, 2007 7:00 pm ((PDT))

Hi everyone,
I am new to this group and still learning about raw. I switch my dog to raw two and a half weeks ago. Before that she was on the home cooked diet. My girl has always had a problem keeping up her weight but now she is even more skinny. Her ribs, spine and pelvic bones are visible. She also has a very sensitive stomach and suspicion for IBD. My question is: what can I feed her to gain weight?. I feed her three times already. She gets turkey, ground turkey necks and lamb. Each meal consist 210 g of food, 60 g of each is RMB( turkey necks), 90g of lamb and rest is turkey. All meats are ground. She gets about 3% of her ideal weight (47 pounds). Her current weight is 43 pounds. So if there anything I could do to give her more calories without compromising her sensitive GI tract that would be great.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Natalya

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
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10a. Swallowing food whole
Posted by: "abeautiful3" abeautiful3@yahoo.com abeautiful3
Date: Wed Sep 19, 2007 2:35 pm ((PDT))

Hello I am new to the group and to raw feeding I have American
Bulldogs that just about swallow what ever you give them, my question
is starting them out on raw food is there a certain way to feed them
so that they are not swallowing the meat, I can see them now being so
happy that they will just swallow and not chew.

Any suggestions are appreciated.

Arlene

Messages in this topic (2)
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10b. Re: Swallowing food whole
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Wed Sep 19, 2007 2:54 pm ((PDT))

Arlene,

Feed large portions that they cannot swallow whole. I don't know if chicken
quarters would be too small or not...you might have to go with chicken
halves?

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "abeautiful3" <abeautiful3@yahoo.com>

Messages in this topic (2)
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11a. Are once a day feedings a good idea?
Posted by: "Kelly P" picklesrfree@yahoo.com picklesrfree
Date: Wed Sep 19, 2007 3:58 pm ((PDT))

Hi all,

My pup is now 8 mos old and I'm wondering if I should feed her once a
day now instead of 2. She's never particularly hungry and any of her
feeding times. She sometimes takes is straight away, or, more often,
sniffs at it and lets it sit for a good while.

She's fairly active: She's walked/ran every day, plays for hours with
other dogs at least once a week, and joins us on hikes that have so far
been every other weekend.

I'd like to switch to feeding once a day so that I can give her one big
variety meal that she'll take straight away so we can move on with our
lives. I also don't like letting food sit outside as it attracts flies.

what do you all think? If I were to feed once a day, when do suggest
that should be, morning, noon, night?

Thanks for the help,

Kelly

Messages in this topic (2)
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11b. Re: Are once a day feedings a good idea?
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Wed Sep 19, 2007 4:22 pm ((PDT))

It sounds like she is telling you she is ready for one meal a day, Kelly.
Fit it into your schedule...it doesn't matter when during the day it is.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Kelly P" <picklesrfree@yahoo.com>

what do you all think? If I were to feed once a day, when do suggest
that should be, morning, noon, night?

Messages in this topic (2)
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12a. Re: Feeding Heads
Posted by: "Renate" renate.tideswell@gmail.com tideswell_renate
Date: Wed Sep 19, 2007 5:10 pm ((PDT))

I know you are right and I appreciate your input, so I went today and bought
a heap of chicken quarters. Enough to last my 3 plus the 2 rescues a week.
(OK I know you all do it all the time, but I'm easing into to it LOL. ) Two
of my doggies sleep in my bed, so I'm thinking I should feed in the morning
and hopefully all will be well, but if not, I might know about it by
bedtime? yes? no? I know you guys probably think I'm nuts, and usually I'm
not like this, but the rest of my life is going through major doo-doo so I'd
like something to be partly predictable, at least. I already had a huge
mess up with my bitch Bella. She went into heat and is now thoroughly bred
byFrodo though I had certainly not intended that. He was a personal rescue
who was supposed to have been neutered but I had a rescue dog that attacked
him and broke 3 ribs and everything just went to h e double toothpicks.
Anyway, any advice at this point about these stupid detail would help.
Sorry to be so pathetic.
Renate

On 9/18/07, Giselle <megan.giselle@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi, Renate!
> Just my 2 cents.
> The real learning about feeding raw happens after you start!
> If you watch the dogs, they will teach you.
> What you learn before that integrates with what their body's responses
> tell you. Its a dynamic process.
> Don't wait!
> TC
> Giselle
> with Bea in New Jersey
>
> <snip>
> We've been testing the waters and none of them have any
> > problem eating any bits of anything that I cut off our food before
> cooking,
> > so I don't know why I'm hesitating. Keep thinking I need to learn
> more...
> > Renate
>
>
>

--
Renate
'The more I learn about men, the more I love my Shih Tzu'

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (7)
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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12049

There are 24 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Help with new puppies....
From: Garnaas, Carolyn (MED US)
1b. Re: Help with new puppies....
From: Sonja

2a. Re: boneless meals/what to feed?
From: Giselle
2b. Re: boneless meals/what to feed?
From: Dawn Crosier
2c. Re: boneless meals/what to feed?
From: katkellm
2d. Re: boneless meals/what to feed?
From: sarahfalkner
2e. Re: boneless meals/what to feed?
From: Bumble1994@aol.com
2f. Re: boneless meals/what to feed?
From: caroline gebbie
2g. Re: boneless meals/what to feed?
From: caroline gebbie

3. Ostrich necks
From: Mia-Shay Emery

4a. Suggestions for a dog who HATES beef liver!
From: steph.sorensen
4b. Re: Suggestions for a dog who HATES beef liver!
From: Sandee Lee
4c. Re: Suggestions for a dog who HATES beef liver!
From: Stephanie Sorensen
4d. Re: Suggestions for a dog who HATES beef liver!
From: Yasuko herron
4e. Re: Suggestions for a dog who HATES beef liver!
From: linoleum5017
4f. Re: Suggestions for a dog who HATES beef liver!
From: jmwise80
4g. Re: Suggestions for a dog who HATES beef liver!
From: sillypoodle2003

5a. Older dog with diarrhea- help
From: Heidi
5b. Re: Older dog with diarrhea- help
From: Yasuko herron

6a. Re: Constipation?
From: Shannon Hully

7a. Re: help with doxie, back problem, weight and raw feeding
From: marblekallie

8a. Re: update on Cairn puppy that would not eat
From: Laurie Swanson

9a. EPI German Shepherd with terrible gas - Ugh!!
From: Laurie Swanson

10. UK suppliers
From: sange101

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Help with new puppies....
Posted by: "Garnaas, Carolyn (MED US)" carolyn.garnaas@siemens.com carolyn.garnaas
Date: Tue Sep 18, 2007 3:00 pm ((PDT))

I knew a Toy Poodle breeder who used to start her tiny pups out on raw
meaty bones at around six weeks. The pups might have been approaching
two pounds each in weight at that time, maybe a bit less. They were
still getting milk from the mom, too.

She once sent me a picture of four or five teensy little baby Toy
Poodles dragging a huge pork roast. They were apparently trying to get
it back to their crate and gloat over it, before attacking it with their
little teensy needle teeth. It was hilarious. If you start the pups on
raw prior to six weeks, I guess I would be inclined to keep it boneless
- but that might be an excess of caution on my part. I do tend to err on
the side of caution. They are going to lose those baby teeth anyway,
eventually, so no need to keep them all sparkly.

I started my Toy Poodle puppy on raw chicken parts when she was ten
weeks old, and she did just great. She weighed just over two pounds when
she started eating raw meaty bones. Now she is a huge six pounds (four
years old) and eats everything except bunnies. Doesn't like 'em.

Carolyn J. Garnaas

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Messages in this topic (3)
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1b. Re: Help with new puppies....
Posted by: "Sonja" ladyver@sbcglobal.net lonepalm77
Date: Tue Sep 18, 2007 3:42 pm ((PDT))

I know a breeder who has successfully raised multiple generations on raw. She weans the pups to whole ground animal patties (ex, grinding a whole chicken and making a patties out of it) and then throws in chicken backs at around 5-6 weeks old. Once they have that down, she'll throw a whole chicken in to the litter and apparently they do a great job of pulling it apart!

Sonja

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

2a. Re: boneless meals/what to feed?
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Tue Sep 18, 2007 3:39 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Cindi!
Well, a lot of peeps find us by websurfing, and read a lot
of uh, stuff, before getting here. The main things they seem to pick
up are the vomit group's term, that has become popularized; RMB. Even
tho' it seems most people who feed that plan are afraid of real edible
bones, and gravitate to grinding or feeding bones too bare, big and
dense for dogs to get anything from but broken or worn teeth.

So, we do talk a lot about bones, edible bones, and how they are a
small but necessary part of a dog's diet. And, we encourage people who
are afraid of bones, who have heard old wives's horror tales, to feed
their dogs bones.

WE call it a species appropriate whole raw prey model diet. Raw
feeding for short.

By the time people get past the fear of, then the mystique of, feeding
raw edible bones, if they are still posting and have not gone away
happily raw feeding, then we are trying to encourage balance, letting
the prey model dictate what percentage of bone to meat to organ is
'perfect'. Each prey animal has a different 'perfect' ratio, its all good.

So, yeah, we don't get a lot of opportunity to talk about boneless
meals, but they're being fed, believe you me. And dogs are loving it.
TC
Giselle
with Bes in New Jersey

> As I am reading and learning here (and watching my dogs poop), I
> realize that many (maybe most) meals are boneless. When I first
> started 1.5 months ago I was focused on bones because of the name of
> the diet .... raw meaty bones.
>
> Now I see that only 10% of diet is bone and 10% is organ. That leaves
> 80% meat. That is a big portion --80%. How come we aren't talking more
> about boneless meals?
>
> Any suggestions, tips, education on how to feed 80% boneless meals?
> Are people feeding 80% boneless meals?
>
> Thank you!
>
> Cindi
>

Messages in this topic (20)
________________________________________________________________________

2b. Re: boneless meals/what to feed?
Posted by: "Dawn Crosier" dlcrosier@sbcglobal.net dlc110161
Date: Tue Sep 18, 2007 3:41 pm ((PDT))

Hi Caroline -
>> I have rung a few butchers and they all seem horrified at the idea, and
in the uk Deer is out i am afraid, my dad does shoot so rabbits and the odd
pheasant are a possibility but he lives an hour away.
<<

I would suggest that you do a little investigative work. The UK has quite a
few rabbit breeders who raise and show rabbits. In order to be successful in
the show arena it is necessary to cull the rabbits. I know breeders here in
the states who have been known to dump twenty or thirty rabbits in the trash
because they could not find an outlet for them. I discovered this site which
has several breed clubs web links which should provide you some contacts
local to your area.
http://www.bradfordexcelshow.co.uk/breed_descriptions.html I will tell you
that some of the lop breeds are heavier boned than other breeds of rabbits.

I don't butcher my rabbits - instead I hire it done and am looking forward
to improving my show stock and feeding my Westie some good raw meat.

Dawn

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Messages in this topic (20)
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2c. Re: boneless meals/what to feed?
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Tue Sep 18, 2007 4:54 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, caroline gebbie <caz320ml@...> wrote:
......we all love our dogs.
> I think I am just scared about finding options

Hi Caroline,
I am sooo glad that you answered. I'm not usually a soap box kinda
person, but i think you nailed it when you said that we all love our
dogs and only want the very best for them. I really and truthfully
believe that this raw feeding diet and list were the best things that
could have happened for my dogs. I wish i could help you with
resources in the UK specifically, but i have 2 suggestions that you
could try. First, with something like 8,000 members, we must have UK
members that could help you with sources. Just in case they don't
read this thread, you could "start a topic" and entitle it something
like "new uk feeder needs help." Also, there is another yahoo group
called Raw Meaty Bones. I think they are based out of the UK, and
though their primary purpose is raw feeding political advocacy, if you
joined that group and asked for help i'm sure they would oblige. Let
us know what you find out and then we can help you start feeding your
boxers a great raw diet. Your new Illinois friend, KathyM

Messages in this topic (20)
________________________________________________________________________

2d. Re: boneless meals/what to feed?
Posted by: "sarahfalkner" Sarah.Falkner@gmail.com sarahfalkner
Date: Tue Sep 18, 2007 4:56 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, caroline gebbie <caz320ml@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Kathy
>
> I think I am just scared about finding options, without buying expensive cuts. I have 2

> I have rung a few butchers and they all seem horrified at the idea, and in the uk Deer is
out i am afraid, my dad does shoot so rabbits and the odd pheasant are a possibility but
he lives an hour away.

Hi Caroline,

I'm an American living in Ireland (the Republic), since moving I have found some of the
discussion for sourcing on this list is American specific--on the other hand, there's also
still an awful lot of material here quite applicable and very much worth your time to read,
so do!

For starters, someone on this list has a really great file she sends out to newbies about
sourcing--I'll let her send it out as it's so complete and has a lot of creative ideas about
how to feed raw prey model as cheaply as possible. In brief, it's not even just a matter of
smart shopping, for example, you can also ask hunters, taxidermists, etc. for meat they
might otherwise not need.

Anyway, while Ireland is not the UK, we have some similarities as regards traditional
butchers and markets, so I'll share some things I've found that may be of help to you.
Also, over here, most of us have much smaller refrigerator/freezers than they have/I once
had in America; so buying in bulk isn't always as easy. And the animals that are hunted
here tend to be smaller (though we are able to get venison here in Ireland, it's just
expensive). But, I still manage, feeding prey model, to spend less money than I would if I
bought the disgusting k*bble that's available in the supermarket (my husband, who totally
supports prey model feeding, nonetheless requested a cost analysis and comparison just
to reassure him we weren't bankrupting ourselves on the cats).

I don't know where you are in the UK (I've friends in London, Oxford, Sussex, and Wales at
the moment) but most importantly, are you urban or rural?

If you're urban, you can find a lot of cheaper meats--and diversity of types of meats--in
markets that cater to different ethnicities. West Indian and middle eastern markets will
have goat, asian markets will have whole fish and cheaper cuts of beef, pork, chicken. In
the UK, many traditional dishes are made with offal (like kidney pie) and game, so
sometimes the more old-fashioned places will have good cheap meat, and also French
butchers will often have offal, game, and farmed rabbit too. On the other hand, the
discount section at a supermarket will also offer cheap meats perfect for your dogs. Have
you a Lidl discount market nearby? I know they have them in Oxford and around London.
They have cheap fresh and frozen meats.

If you're rural, there may be farmers and/or hunters you could strike up a friendship with,
people who keep chickens will have hens that aren't laying anymore, that sort of thing can
be a good relationship for you both. if you don't know anyone like that, you probably have
a public notice board or a free newspaper, the kind you'd look for an advert for firewood
or used goods, in which you could take out an ad, like "Wanted: rabbit meat." That's great
luck your dad shoots. If you're rural, you can also keep chickens and rabbits yourself
pretty easily.

I live in the country, and shop in a small market town nearby. Regarding your horrified
butchers: when I ask for certain cuts of meat at the butcher, first, in order to avoid dealing
with horror, judgement, being the weird American in the small town, etc., I just don't even
mention it's often for my cats--as far as my butcher is concerned, I just make an awful lot
of beef kidney pie, rabbit fricasee, and chicken liver pate. Ireland was a very poor country
for a long time, and with the history of the Famine, a lot of people here think it's too
frivolous to worry so much about what cats and dogs eat--so, I always look up a human
recipe for the more unusual meats, so I have a kind of alibi if they ask "What do want that
for?" I don't keep it a secret, what I feed my cats, but in a small town, with a finite
number of butchers, I decided I needed to secure my cheap meat cuts and organ
connections before risking ostracism!

Anyway, I generally have to order wild game like rabbit at the butcher but I bet you can,
too, whether you're rural or urban. I used to get rabbit in Brooklyn, New York when I lived
there. Just ask around.

I've had much better luck calling on the butcher in person rather than ringing them up;
often if you're standing there in front of them, they'll try to be more helpful, try to think
where they might get something or where else you might try. And do try and try again;
I've called on one butcher who told me nobody carried rabbit anymore, and then two doors
down the lane, they ordered it for me straightaway.

Whether you're urban or rural, have you access to a farmer's market? I've had the best luck
asking farmers with stalls at the market directly for things like ox and chicken hearts and
other bits harder to find even through special order at the butcher. the farmers often
never bother to think of selling some of these things, but keep them for themselves to
eat--but if you ask, often they'll be able to bring something in for you the following week.

Anyway, congratulations to you and your 4-leggeds for feeding raw. it may seem
complicated at first, and it does take a bit of work in the beginning to figure out where
you get some of the stuff, but once you get the hang of what works for you and your
creatures, it's actually really easy, and needn't be expensive.

Sarah
Executive Assistant to Henry and Ivan

Messages in this topic (20)
________________________________________________________________________

2e. Re: boneless meals/what to feed?
Posted by: "Bumble1994@aol.com" Bumble1994@aol.com bumble1994
Date: Tue Sep 18, 2007 4:56 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 9/18/2007 5:42:47 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
_ShankMa4@aol.Sha_ (mailto:ShankMa4@aol.com) writes:

Now I see that only 10% of diet is bone and 10% is organ. That leaves
80% meat. That is a big portion --80%. How come we aren't talking more
about boneless meals?

I'm feeding cats, not dogs, and they are small cats, getting 1 1/2 to 2 oz
per meal twice a day. I feed them just raw meat--boneless--most of the time.
Every 2 or 3 days I throw in a bony meal, a piece of wing or neck, along with
a piece of heart, or pork, or beef or lamb, depending on how much meat is
attached to that piece of bone. Also every 2 or 3 days I throw in a piece of
liver or kidney. I think of it as feeding basically meaty meat and throwing in a
some bone and some organ pretty regularly. When I get hold of a rabbit they
probably get more bone than usual, but they don't often get a rabbit. Also, I
give them whole fish about once a week--and consider that an extra bit of
bone. (But it's usually small smelt and there's very little bone there! When
somebody gets to eat a talapia head as big as his head, I hold off on the next
bone for a few days.)

Lynda

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

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Messages in this topic (20)
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2f. Re: boneless meals/what to feed?
Posted by: "caroline gebbie" caz320ml@yahoo.com caz320ml
Date: Wed Sep 19, 2007 4:14 am ((PDT))

Hi kathy

Thanks for the support and advice, its great to have a friend. I think the hardest thing about this will be getting started.

But am looking in to all the options.
One of my problems is my oldest Boxer Bonnie has CDRM and no use of her back legs, so lest control over pooing (sorry) just want to be careful, she is very good but don't want to cause her any problems

Caroline, Bonnie and Londo

---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (20)
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2g. Re: boneless meals/what to feed?
Posted by: "caroline gebbie" caz320ml@yahoo.com caz320ml
Date: Wed Sep 19, 2007 4:14 am ((PDT))

Hi Sarah

Thanks
for all the great advice, I live in Doncaster, south Yorkshire, not many markets, but you have given me some good ideas.

One of my worries is expense and time.

Thanks
Caroline, Bonnie and Londo

---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (20)
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________________________________________________________________________

3. Ostrich necks
Posted by: "Mia-Shay Emery" briarbaby_04@yahoo.com briarbaby_04
Date: Tue Sep 18, 2007 4:55 pm ((PDT))

Hi All
I stopped at our local raw feed store Wagz today on the way home from the butcher shop just to see what they have, Wow! what a place! A whole wall of freezers full of raw feed, every type of meat you can imagine all in frozen 1lb to 3lb blocks. While some of it is straight up meat, others had raw veggies as well. I don't think that Zach would be happy with veggies so I got him some chicken with bone in and a big bag of frozen Ostrich necks.
Mia

---------------------------------
Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.

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Messages in this topic (1)
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4a. Suggestions for a dog who HATES beef liver!
Posted by: "steph.sorensen" steph.sorensen@yahoo.com steph.sorensen
Date: Tue Sep 18, 2007 4:57 pm ((PDT))

I have been trying for days to feed Lucy some beef liver, and she just
can't stand it! She eats heart, she eats tripe, but not the liver!

What are some good alternatives that give her the same nutritional
value but that she may like better?

Thanks in advance,
Steph
Scarlet, Lucy and Minkey

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

4b. Re: Suggestions for a dog who HATES beef liver!
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Tue Sep 18, 2007 5:08 pm ((PDT))

Pork liver, lamb liver, turkey liver, chicken liver....LOL Have you tried
freezing it?

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "steph.sorensen" <steph.sorensen@yahoo.com>

I have been trying for days to feed Lucy some beef liver, and she just
can't stand it! She eats heart, she eats tripe, but not the liver!

What are some good alternatives that give her the same nutritional
value but that she may like better?

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

4c. Re: Suggestions for a dog who HATES beef liver!
Posted by: "Stephanie Sorensen" steph.sorensen@yahoo.com steph.sorensen
Date: Tue Sep 18, 2007 5:34 pm ((PDT))

No, but I'll do it now! :)

Sandee Lee <rlee@plix.com> wrote: Pork liver, lamb liver, turkey liver, chicken liver....LOL Have you tried
freezing it?

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "steph.sorensen" <steph.sorensen@yahoo.com>

I have been trying for days to feed Lucy some beef liver, and she just
can't stand it! She eats heart, she eats tripe, but not the liver!

What are some good alternatives that give her the same nutritional
value but that she may like better?

---------------------------------
Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story.
Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

4d. Re: Suggestions for a dog who HATES beef liver!
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Tue Sep 18, 2007 8:56 pm ((PDT))

> Have you tried freezing it?

Hi,Steph. If the freezing did not work,since you know that Tripe is something your dog likes,so,mix the liver with Tripe and feed it.It may work.

So far,my dog trid Beef liver,Pork liver,Chicken liver,and I gave her sample of Goat liver she loved it. She was sniffing like crazy,after being tasted sample.And,while I was chopping it up,she ignored my husband's call "come,palette" and was laying like sphinx staring at my hands too.So, I gave pinky nail sized liver second time and I called it quit but, she was stalking me everywhere til I put big zip bag to freezer.

It is possible as well that if you try another animal's liver/organ,the dog may show more interests. Meaning,you try with Beef liver and once you find way to feed it to yourdog,next kinds of organ from another anuimals,you may not need to fight with your dog rather, your dog welcome the liver with open paws.

Good Luck,

yassy

PS; Palette had huuge vomiting last Saturday andworried me but now,sheis active as usual.
With bit of iffyness but I tried feeding Beef Short Rib again this morning with this time fat removed from bottom of the rib,andshe digested fine,no vomitting. not sure whatwas causing her vomiting on las Saturday but I am glad she becomes fine. After Rib meal,she did poo on walk and it was firm head with wet ends. I think she needed more bone than I thought I guess or maybe Goat liver (althought it was quite small amount) did softer the poo..
She definitely enjoyed it though.

---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (7)
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4e. Re: Suggestions for a dog who HATES beef liver!
Posted by: "linoleum5017" linoleum5017@yahoo.com linoleum5017
Date: Tue Sep 18, 2007 8:59 pm ((PDT))

Haha, Steph, I wrote a similar post a few months ago! The magic thing
for me was to sear it for a few seconds, which changed the texture of
liver enough to coax my dog & cat to try it. They now love it! I
don't sear anymore, as they have grown to treasure liver above other
meats. Just give it a little time.

Lynne

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "steph.sorensen"
<steph.sorensen@...> wrote:
>
> I have been trying for days to feed Lucy some beef liver, and she
just
> can't stand it! She eats heart, she eats tripe, but not the liver!
>

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

4f. Re: Suggestions for a dog who HATES beef liver!
Posted by: "jmwise80" jmwise80@yahoo.com jmwise80
Date: Tue Sep 18, 2007 9:00 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee Lee" <rlee@...> wrote:
Have you tried
> freezing it?
>

This worked for me. After a while he got to where he'll eat it thawed.

Michael Wise

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

4g. Re: Suggestions for a dog who HATES beef liver!
Posted by: "sillypoodle2003" angels_mom73@hotmail.com sillypoodle2003
Date: Wed Sep 19, 2007 5:12 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Stephanie Sorensen
<steph.sorensen@...> wrote:
>
> No, but I'll do it now! :)
>
> Sandee Lee <rlee@...> wrote: Pork liver, lamb liver,
turkey liver, chicken liver....LOL Have you tried
> freezing it?
>
> Sandee & the Dane Gang
>
> From: "steph.sorensen" <steph.sorensen@...>
>
> I have been trying for days to feed Lucy some beef liver, and she
just
> can't stand it! She eats heart, she eats tripe, but not the liver!
>
> What are some good alternatives that give her the same nutritional
> value but that she may like better?
>
>
> you could try getting a 2nd dog. ever sinse i moved back home, my
dog suddenly eats anything, just so long as the other dog doesnt get
it, lol. i gave them a bunch of chicken gizzards and liver the other
day, zeke dove on it, spit it out when he realized what it was, then
snatched it back up when comet went to get it, lmao. first time in
his life he ate raw liver, i've had to cook it before to get him to
eat it, lol.

kelly and zeke
>
> .
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your
story.
> Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Messages in this topic (7)
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5a. Older dog with diarrhea- help
Posted by: "Heidi" troopob@yahoo.com troopob
Date: Tue Sep 18, 2007 5:33 pm ((PDT))

I started feeding raw in April after finding this wonderful group. I
have a 3 yo Berner (Deke) who is no longer killing us with gas (both
front and rear versions), his ears are 95% clear, his coat is soft
and beautiful and he has solid poops 98% of the time (unless I screw
up). He has grass allergies that I was hoping the raw would help
with, but they are just as bad this fall as last. Hotspots and
itchy. I was hoping it was food rather than grass, but no luck. A
10 yo Pembroke (Obi) who is doing great also and is getting a softer
coat and cleaner teeth. No problems with these two.

The current problem child is Trooper, a 12 yo Pembroke. He was
doing great until about a week ago and now he has become very picky,
whereas before he would eat anything - even with missing teeth. He
gets phenobarbital for seizures (of which he hasn't had any for 2
years). Before that he would seize every 4 - 6 months with 6 - 10 in
a 24 hour period. He currently gets 3 15mg pills 2x per day. He is
hypothyroid so gets .3mg of levothyroxine 2x per day. I pill him in
a little ground venison, which I now have to shove down his throat
sometimes because he doesn't want to eat much. Since Friday night
he gets uncontrollable diarrhea - it is hard on the carpet (not
literally - you know what I mean :) About 3- 6 hours after he eats -
bamm! Even when he gets plenty of bone. I've tried chicken
breast, leg, wing, beef w/ no bone, turkey breast - all cause yukky
butt. He acts
normal in all other of his cranky ways.

So... Any suggestions for the diarrhea?

Messages in this topic (2)
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5b. Re: Older dog with diarrhea- help
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Tue Sep 18, 2007 8:55 pm ((PDT))

>About 3- 6 hours after he eats - bamm! Even when he gets plenty of bone. I've tried >chicken breast, leg, wing, beef w/ no bone, turkey breast - all cause yukky
>butt. He acts normal in all other of his cranky ways.

Hi,Heidi. I do not know about pill matter,but for diarhea matter,did you try feeding meal without fat skin from meat?

When my dog gets watery/gooey poo,I try either skin off from meat or cut back the suspecting source of meat about half and fill other half with well torelated meat,generally chicken. And give digestive help such as probiotic or Slippery Elms that being told quite sometimes.

If fat was not problems,it can be enhanced meat?

I think others could chime in with more info for you,

yassy

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6a. Re: Constipation?
Posted by: "Shannon Hully" summerwolf@theherbalhotline.com bluehankw
Date: Tue Sep 18, 2007 8:54 pm ((PDT))

Andrea, I had done the math for 2-3% body weight to figure out a rough
estimate on how much he should be eating and figured he ought to be
around the 2% mark since he's currently about 5lbs overweight (stupid
ki**le!) and after the first couple of meals I brought him up to said
amount (I didn't want to produce said "cannon butt" going cold turkey
change *and* loading his gut up all at once! LOL).

Part of the problem is that I've been hand-feeding him to establish the
idea that a) Mom is allowed to touch my food, and b) Mom is the source
of all things delicious! ;-) He seems to be doing well with me
handing him food one piece at a time, I think I may start to give him
whole quarters (sounds kinda stupid, said like that! LOL) so he isn't
swallowing large pieces of meat whole. I think that is why he threw up
his dinner last night and his breakfast today (before that I chopped
them up into much smaller pieces to feed to him).

Thanks for the input, I'll let you know if we get any output! ;-)

Shannon

>
> Well, coming off of eating a food like substance like Ol' Roy,
> Darwin's body is probably starving for nutrients. He's probably
> using up everything that he is eating. That said, depending on the
> size of the chicken breast, you probably want to let him eat more
> food. He should be eating around 1.5 lbs a day, and it sounds like
> he's getting less. I wouldn't get too worried just yet, you don't
> want to add lubricating agents and end up with cannon butt.
>
> Once you are sure he's digesting ok I would give him chicken quarters
> so that he doesn't have the option of swallowing his food whole.
> Other than that, it sounds like you guys are doing really well. Let
> us know how it goes.
>
> Andrea

Messages in this topic (3)
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7a. Re: help with doxie, back problem, weight and raw feeding
Posted by: "marblekallie" marble@pipeline.com marblekallie
Date: Tue Sep 18, 2007 9:00 pm ((PDT))

Welcome Pam:

I have 4 mini wires that I have been feeding raw, 3 of them for 4
plus years and the latest since she came to me 2.5 months ago as a
baby. It is the best and the vitality and health that your dog will
gain will amaze you.

I also have a dog with a back problem. Have you seen the Dachshund
Back Digest? http://bajaokla.com/dachback/ It has a lot of info. on
what to do with back problems. You do need to get the weight off.
I would suggest really non fat things like rabbit, goat, skinless
chicken, fish, etc. and calculate 2.5% of weight for daily
allowance. 4.5 to 5oz per day or about 2.5 oz per serving if 2
meals are given.

Why do you think he is overweight? Does he look heavy or is it that
someone told you that minis should weigh less than 11 lbs? Just
like people it is diet and exercise that make the difference. If
you have a back problem, then you can do some water work in the
bathtub.

The Pred. will have an effect on how he eats and drinks and you need
to know that he does not have any diabetic issues on this drug. It
is an absolute no no if he is diabetic and I hope the vet took blood
samples before prescribing.

Try posting to the Carnivorefeedsupply list on Yahoo and find out
whether there are any coops near you. A buying group is the way to
go for cheaper prices.

Philippa Jordan
New York City Mini Wires

> ok....I've decided I'm going raw - we started yesterday - I have a
12
> lb mini doxie that is probably at least 4lbs overweight

Messages in this topic (13)
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8a. Re: update on Cairn puppy that would not eat
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Tue Sep 18, 2007 9:57 pm ((PDT))

Hi Peter,

Sorry I must have missed your original post or have forgotten. The
list volume is so high, you might want to repost your question w/the
original info or add on to your previous post. How old is your
puppy, and what's the situation? He just is taking longer to get
interested in raw? Chicken wings are pretty small (can be a choking
hazard for many dogs) but might be fine for now if your dog is small
enough.

Anyway, sounds like things are improving--let us know if you need
more help.

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Hartman" <onesojourner@...>
wrote:
I am going to shoot for a
> few solid days of eating bone free chicken and then try adding
something
> like chicken wings. Does this sound like a reasonable plan of
attack?
>

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9a. EPI German Shepherd with terrible gas - Ugh!!
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Tue Sep 18, 2007 9:58 pm ((PDT))

Hi Erica,

For my dog, things which can lead to the stinkies: a really big meal,
a really fatty meal, but MOSTLY...giving him bits of our food or treats
w/any kind of starch or grain sometime AFTER his meal of raw meat
(especially if it's a big, fatty meal!).

Laurie

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10. UK suppliers
Posted by: "sange101" sange101@yahoo.co.uk sange101
Date: Wed Sep 19, 2007 6:13 am ((PDT))

Hi Caroline,
I know how you feel trying to find suppliers at an affordable price,
I am also new to rawfeeding, have been on it for almost two weeks, I
live in Wales, firstly, I look for deals in the stores, on the net,
asda, tesco etc, you can get your chicken at a reasonable price
there, also, look around at kwik save or similar, you can get lamb
breasts quite cheap, then there is Landywoods, who have a website,
google them, they deliver meat supplies and you can buy a whole host
of frozen meat for dogs from them, another is Albion, their email ad
is albionproducts@aol.com ask them to send you a price list and when
they deliver your way next, I found a wholesale meat outlet not to
far from me, look in yellow pages to see if one is near you, I am
able to get ox heart, and they are huge, for £1.99 each, I can ger 7
meals out of one, so it works out economical, I feed twice daily,
still going slowly, the morning meal at the moment contains their 10%
meaty bones, then the rest is fed in the evening meal, so far they
have mostly had the chicken, then I added a little beef until I felt
they would be OK with a whole beef meal, then came the tripe,
although I bought a new freezer for their food and have filled it up,
I have not given the breast of lamb yet, though it is cut and ready
for when i do. Ox heart is not only one of the cheapest meats I have
found but it is very good for them as well, both my dogs, a collie
and an Aussie are loving the new food and if or when I do find any
new products or suppliers I will let you know, rabbit is my big bug
bear, they want £3.00 each down here for a small one, it will
eventually be on the menu as variety is the key, oh, and the liver
from most places is very cheap and lasts well as it is huge and you
don't need loads of it.
Hope this helps
Sandra

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