Feed Pets Raw Food

Friday, August 10, 2007

[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11897

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Feeding Pork shoulder
From: kimberlykay1119

2a. Re: Pig Feet
From: kimberlykay1119
2b. Re: Pig Feet
From: Andrea
2c. Re: Pig Feet
From: costrowski75
2d. Re: Pig Feet
From: Yasuko herron
2e. Re: Pig Feet
From: Yasuko herron

3a. fat buildup
From: Felicia Kost
3b. Re: fat buildup
From: costrowski75
3c. Re: fat buildup - False Pregnancy
From: Sandi Hunt

4a. Re: A few questions
From: Andrea
4b. Re: A few questions
From: ginny wilken
4c. Re: A few questions
From: Pamela Picard

5a. Re: Someone mentioned pig something or other for...
From: costrowski75

6a. Carcinoma
From: Cindy Mack
6b. Re: Carcinoma
From: Laura Atkinson

7a. Elk,Venison,Denver Deer
From: Yasuko herron
7b. Re: Elk,Venison,Denver Deer
From: Tina Berry
7c. Re: Elk,Venison,Denver Deer
From: Yasuko herron
7d. Re: Elk,Venison,Denver Deer
From: Tina Berry
7e. Re: Elk,Venison,Denver Deer
From: Yasuko herron

8. Any Korean raw feeders out there?
From: temy1102

9a. Re: Fat buildup
From: Felicia Kost
9b. Re: Fat buildup
From: Tina Berry
9c. Re: Fat buildup
From: merril Woolf

10. Any dogs 10+ years on raw?
From: lmclaen


Messages
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1a. Re: Feeding Pork shoulder
Posted by: "kimberlykay1119" kimberlykay119@sbcglobal.net kimberlykay1119
Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 7:16 am ((PDT))

I too use Pork Picnics a lot, in fact that is dinner tonight! I do not
take the thick skin or fat off, my guys have been on raw for nearly 6
months now and they are doing well with leaving all skin on any meats
that I feed them. I have the butcher cut the big 10 lb pork picnic 2
different ways, the first few I have him cut in 3 pieces (we have 3
dogs) so every dog gets about a 2 - 3 lb piece. They get these about
once a week on a "gorge" day. The other 5 or six I will have him cut
into 6 pieces so that I have some nice 1 - 1.5 lb chunks of mostly meat
that I can add to something bony like pork spare ribs or that I can
easily cut smaller if I need to. If you cannot cut the bone in the
picnics you have now, save the bone and freeze it. Once you have
enough saved up for everyone, then everyone can have one. I do this
with the ham bones that I use when I make soup in the winter.
Kimberly
>

Messages in this topic (5)
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2a. Re: Pig Feet
Posted by: "kimberlykay1119" kimberlykay119@sbcglobal.net kimberlykay1119
Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 7:17 am ((PDT))

There really isn't enough meat for it to count as a meal. Like someone
suggested here, feed it with a side of boneless meat if you want it to
be a meal. My german shepherds usually get them on Sunday afternoons
as a treat. It usually takes them a good hour to gnaw through one and
the puppy still falls asleep about half way through it. Really tires
them out! Then dinner will be a boneless pork picnic chunk or beef
roast, whatever boneless I have on hand.
Kimberly

If I fed 3 or 4 pig's feet to a big dog,
> would it be a meal, or should I just give them as fun chewie toys?


Messages in this topic (10)
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2b. Re: Pig Feet
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 7:18 am ((PDT))

There's a lot of fat in those trotters, and some dogs get loose stool
from them. I've only seen the short feet (about 6" long), but I know
that they do sell long feet that have meat and muscle from the leg
still attached. If you can get the long feet, you could probably feed
them for a meal. Otherwise, I freeze them and give the boys
feetsickles on hot days where they don't want to do a whole lot of
anything.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "diannem200400" <diannem200400@...>
wrote:

> They are about 12 inches long and look to have meat on
> them, but it's hard to tell. If I fed 3 or 4 of them to a big dog,
> would it be a meal, or should I just give them as fun chewie toys?


Messages in this topic (10)
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2c. Re: Pig Feet
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 7:46 am ((PDT))

"diannem200400" <diannem200400@...> wrote:
> do they have any nutritive value or are they just
> recreational? They are about 12 inches long and look to have meat on
> them, but it's hard to tell. If I fed 3 or 4 of them to a big dog,
> would it be a meal, or should I just give them as fun chewie toys?
*****
Three of four as a meal might produce more loose stool than you want to
deal with, depends on the size and experience of your dog. I feed
bigger ones--16-20 inches maybe with quite a lot of meat at the north
end--to my adult retrievers as a full meal; they generally eat all the
but the toes and sometimes have a bit of loose stool but nothing
requiring heavy housekeeping.

Perhaps you maybe should test drive a singleton and go from there. At
the very least they are terrific fun toys.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (10)
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2d. Re: Pig Feet
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 8:03 am ((PDT))

>feed it with a side of boneless meat if you want it to be a meal.

Hi,Kimberly.I agree with you. If one wanted to feed asmeal,one needs to add good hunk of meat because the feet does not have much meat on it.

>My german shepherds usually get them on Sunday afternoons as a treat. It usually takes >them a good hour to gnaw through one

I don't feed feet regulary but I have fed before for my dog;Corgi.

She gnaw on it and spent 90 mins on it to finish the feet all. She seemed to like it but,when getting closer to finish,she was munching on it on settle posture because so tiring part of meal.

yassy


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Messages in this topic (10)
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2e. Re: Pig Feet
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 8:18 am ((PDT))

> I've only seen the short feet (about 6" long), but I know that they do sell long feet that >have .meat and muscle from the leg still attached

Hi,Andrea. If you go to Asian market,they sell long thick pinky skinned feet still have some hairs on it.

To be specific,if you live in VA,you can find the long thick feet at Tan-A-market on Broad St in Richmond.I saw it there.

I know waht you mean by 6'' feet,because I have seen it on supermarket as well.
Those are rather skinnier than Asian market one but cutted into length-wise.

What are the difference between supermarket pig feet (thin and whitish) and Asian market pig feet(pinky colored skin with thick and big)?

Is it different breed of pork or something?

yassy


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Messages in this topic (10)
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3a. fat buildup
Posted by: "Felicia Kost" saphiradane@yahoo.com saphiradane
Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 7:18 am ((PDT))

Hi, I am new to raw and so far all is well (I think). I have a odd question that may not even be related to the raw but that is what I am trying to figure out. I have a 15month old dane bitch that has been on raw for about 3 months. I have always kept her a little thin because of being a growing puppy and that seems to be the only way I can keep her, she is very active. Since we started raw she started to finaly gain some weight and looks realy good. My question is, she seems to put fat on the ventral abdomen area and it is making her look like she is lactating( fo course she is not). The area hangs down and is pretty floppy. Is this normal or a dane thing? She looks good everywhere else. Was in heat a few months ago. She is getting mostly chicken and some lamb and now a little fish. Feeding app 2lbs a day. If I cut back her food the fat goes away but she get to thin again. Should I be concerned or is this part of the diet change and gaining weight? Some one told me that
raw dogs often change physicaly as far as the body shape and muscle. Other people ask if she had puppies recently! This may not be raw related but though I get some opinions esp knowing there were several raw dane feeders on the list. Thanks for any advice. Felicia

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Messages in this topic (3)
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3b. Re: fat buildup
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 8:03 am ((PDT))

Felicia Kost <saphiradane@...> wrote:
>My question is, she seems to put fat on the ventral abdomen area and
it is making her look like she is lactating( fo course she is not).
The area hangs down and is pretty floppy. Is this normal or a dane
thing? She looks good everywhere else. Was in heat a few months ago.
She is getting mostly chicken and some lamb and now a little fish.
Feeding app 2lbs a day.
*****
This sort of physical change does not strike me as a result of
calorie intake. It may be the result of a false pregnancy
or other hormonal/glandular issues. What you describe certainly fits
to a "t" the appearance of a bitch of mine that is just coming out of
a false pregnancy.

It doesn't appear that you are feeding too much fat or even too much
food, and I suggest you do not try to fix this by limiting her menu.
The physical changes that typically come of raw feeding are not
flabby ones. You should expect to see more muscles, more defined
muscles; tauter, leaner torsos.

I'm betting on false pregnancy.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
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3c. Re: fat buildup - False Pregnancy
Posted by: "Sandi Hunt" sandihunt@hotmail.com pierrenali
Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 9:44 am ((PDT))

"I'm betting on false pregnancy."

I totally agree, my Dane had several false pregnancies, went so far as to
lactate for a new kitten.

Sandi

_________________________________________________________________
Now you can see trouble…before he arrives

http://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_protection_0507

Messages in this topic (3)
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4a. Re: A few questions
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 7:19 am ((PDT))

Hi, Erica, it sounds like things are going well for you guys.
Feeding Sophie leg quarters and bone in brests is fine for the first
week or so. I wouldn't go out of my way to buy a tub of liver or
hearts and gizzards just yet. Some people hold off on adding organs
for quite a while because they loosen up stools fast. Keep an eye
out for sales on whole birds since they will have the organs in there
too. When I introduced organs I just divided what came with the bird
into four and fed a little with each chicken quarter. You might want
to go a little more slowly if loose stools bother you and/or Sophie.

> Also, Sophie is due for her heart worm prevention pill. Do you
> still use this commercial product?

Nope, we're in an area where heartworm is really rare unless you go
camping a whole lot. I'm not about feeding my boys pesticides "just
in case."

> what do you use for flea & tic prevention? I'm sure there is
> something more natural than what we are using!

I don't use any flea preventative any more, really. Ever since we
switched the pups to raw, they are much less likely to have fleas on
them. A couple of weeks ago both of the dogs were itching
themselves, so I've been going over them with a flea comb and dusting
their skin with food grade diatomaceous earth (DE). I haven't
actually seen a flea on them, but the itching is starting to
subside. I hear you can also sprinkle food grade DE on carpets and
furnature as well. Just a little sprinkle followed by a vaccuum.
Hope this helps.

Andrea

Messages in this topic (26)
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4b. Re: A few questions
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 9:23 am ((PDT))


On Aug 10, 2007, at 5:01 AM, erica wrote:

>
> Also, Sophie is due for her heart worm prevention pill. Do you
> still use this commercial product? Last question, what do you use
> for flea & tic prevention? I'm sure there is something more natural
> than what we are using! That is one of the few chemicals that
> enters this house & I'd love to replace it with something that I can
> feel good about! TIA
> Erica


Soon to be OT for this list but great for Rawchat, but the HW stuff
is a potent neurotoxin and should be avoided. The replacement is your
dog's brilliant health. Most people find this hard to believe at
first, but truly healthy animals do not attract bugs and parasites,
and there is actually only a tiny risk of contracting HW. The life
cycle is very complex and depends on many factors rarely met. See you
over there!


ginny and Tomo


All stunts performed without a net!


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Messages in this topic (26)
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4c. Re: A few questions
Posted by: "Pamela Picard" pet.wellness@yahoo.com pet.wellness
Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 11:13 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "erica" <ericagordon@...> wrote:
>
>
> Prior to feding raw, Sophie had a new, red, itchy spot on her
> tummy. I'm keeping an eye on it but so far it is still there. With
> a little dried blood from scratching. Anything I can do for that?
> I'm not sure if it is from the heat or what.
>
> Erica
>
***
Slightly OT. Red, itchy spots can be staph eruptions or flea
dermatitis or atopic detematitis, too many itis's to count. I apply a
10:1:1 solution of almond oil, lavender oil and Neem oil which I mix
myself. It resolves the itch and doesn't poison your dog if she
ingests it. More frequent bathing with THERANEEM - available online or
at The People's Pharmacy - seems to keep Matisse fairly flea free.

Pamela Picard

***Sign the petition***
Exempt Sick & Senior Pets from Rabies Shots
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Messages in this topic (26)
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5a. Re: Someone mentioned pig something or other for...
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 7:53 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "angelsnoopers64859"
<angelsnoopers64859@...> wrote:
>
> putting on weight. What was it?
*****
Heck, pig anything should be good for weight gain, as long as your dog
can comfortably digest the fat. Except for the leanest cuts that are
being promoted by the Pork Council as comparable to chicken, pork is a
fatty meat.

What size dog do you have and what kind of weight gain are you looking
for?
Chris O

Messages in this topic (2)
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6a. Carcinoma
Posted by: "Cindy Mack" cmack@vetspecialty.com cindymack59
Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 8:03 am ((PDT))

I've been lurking for a while now and my husband doesn't believe in raw food
diet - but I need to do something to help my girls -they range from 10.7 -
15 years of age - all have health issues but my youngest was dx'd with
hepatocellular carcinoma last night - anyone have any thoughts that might
help me convince my husband that this is what I need to do? anyone out there
have any experience with cancer? - it is unfortunatley inoperable and I work
for one of the best centers for cancer and sx treatment for dogs and cats in
the midwest - any suggestions/help would be greatly appreciated

Cindy M and the 4 fuzzy butts (Polski Owczarek Nizinny's)


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Messages in this topic (2)
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6b. Re: Carcinoma
Posted by: "Laura Atkinson" llatkinson@gmail.com lauraatkinson2002
Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 9:00 am ((PDT))

I'd do a couple of things, I'd find a homeopath to work with to keep
her as healthy as possible, given her diagnosis.

I'd switch her to raw. Look at this way, if you only had one last
meal to eat, would it be bran muffins and salad or steak and chocolate
cake? <g>. Well, that's not a really good analogy, because for dogs
raw is as healthy as it is tasty...but you get the idea, right?

On 8/10/07, Cindy Mack <cmack@vetspecialty.com> wrote:
> I've been lurking for a while now and my husband doesn't believe in raw food
> diet - but I need to do something to help my girls -they range from 10.7 -
> 15 years of age - all have health issues but my youngest was dx'd with
> hepatocellular carcinoma last night - anyone have any thoughts that might
> help me convince my husband that this is what I need to do? anyone out there
> have any experience with cancer? - it is unfortunatley inoperable and I work
> for one of the best centers for cancer and sx treatment for dogs and cats in
> the midwest - any suggestions/help would be greatly appreciated
>
> Cindy M and the 4 fuzzy butts (Polski Owczarek Nizinny's)
>
>

--
Laura A
Kaos Siberians http://www.kaossiberians.com


Messages in this topic (2)
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7a. Elk,Venison,Denver Deer
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 8:06 am ((PDT))

Hi. Are Elk,Venison,Denver deer tastes different from each other?

I mean,I know that Elk is bigger size of deer than Denver deer but,if one dog did not take Elk better,chances are the dog not going to touch other kind of deer meat too?

Isit hit or miss type of meat?

thanks

yassy


---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (5)
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7b. Re: Elk,Venison,Denver Deer
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 8:30 am ((PDT))

"Hi. Are Elk,Venison,Denver deer tastes different from each other?"

I don't know about CO but in MT they taste different. My dogs don't have a
preference, but my parents do ;-)

They will only eat Elk, as the rest are too gamey they say and the Elk isn't
- I like them all.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com


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Messages in this topic (5)
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7c. Re: Elk,Venison,Denver Deer
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 9:47 am ((PDT))

> My dogs don't have a preference

Hi,Tina. So,for human,it maybe hit or miss but in your dog case,they all welcome then?

I asked these because last night,I fed Elk rib.

My dog ate it but some meat fell from her chewing,she did not want to do anything with it.

So,it was wiered because the meat it did not come off,she ate ok,so,I assumed she can eat it but the meat fell off from her chewing motion,she didn't want to eat it.

So,I was wondering if the Elk is either hit or miss meat.

I try tonight again and see if she does the same..

if she did not touch the meat fell from her mouth,I wonder if searing will help or not..

I will try and see..

Maybe the taste was too unfamiliar and need time to adjust?

Thank you Tina.

yassy


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Messages in this topic (5)
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7d. Re: Elk,Venison,Denver Deer
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 10:06 am ((PDT))

"Maybe the taste was too unfamiliar and need time to adjust?"

Could be if this is the first time they ate it - mine were weaned onto wild
game so they don't know any different - what kind of dogs do you have and
what cut of meat are you feeding?
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com


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7e. Re: Elk,Venison,Denver Deer
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 10:37 am ((PDT))

>Could be if this is the first time they ate it -

Hi,Tina.Yes,it was her first time and she had Elk Rib. It was Rib but had some meat on it.

Yesterday,she had Boneless goat and Pork liver,pork kidney and Elk Rib.

She had no hesitence to crunch down the Rib and the meat that still attached to rib seemed to be no problems.Just the one some piece of meat that fell from Elk bone..she did not want it.

> what kind of dogs do you have ?
Mine is Pembroke Corgi.

yassy


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Messages in this topic (5)
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8. Any Korean raw feeders out there?
Posted by: "temy1102" tammy.a.jp@gmail.com temy1102
Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 8:11 am ((PDT))

I keep running into the same Korean lady walking her pug in my new
neighborhood. She commented on how beautiful Grover is and how young
Tod looks; she thought he was a puppy at first, a mistake a lot of
strangers make. When I told her he was 13 years old, she was shocked.

Today she has told me she's going to try out feeding raw tomorrow.
She kept saying she was going to feed "something" but I didn't
understand the word, and later asked my mom and it was WINGS! Darn
it. Gotta tell her her pugster needs more meat than that!

Anyways, my Korean speaking ability is severely limited, like, it
makes other Korean people laugh before they can answer me. Are there
any more fluent speakers/writers out there who can make up a quick
little Basics of Raw Feeding outline for me? I live in Koreatown now,
so I have a feeling I'm going to need it more and more.

Tammy & Grover

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9a. Re: Fat buildup
Posted by: "Felicia Kost" saphiradane@yahoo.com saphiradane
Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 8:30 am ((PDT))

What you describe certainly fits
to a "t" the appearance of a bitch of mine that is just coming out of
a false pregnancy.

It doesn't appear that you are feeding too much fat or even too much
food, and I suggest you do not try to fix this by limiting her menu.
The physical changes that typically come of raw feeding are not
flabby ones. You should expect to see more muscles, more defined
muscles; tauter, leaner torsos. "As I expected and have noticed!"

I'm betting on false pregnancy.
Chris O


Ok, thank you, so u don't think it is diet related? I failed to mention that she is making a mess of her bed and blankets lately and digging at my floor, could this be a symptom. If this is false pregnancy what do I do. Should I wait it out and for how long? Does this required a vet? If this is hormonal does that mean possibly hormones from the meat I buy could cause this I try to go as natural as I can afford? Don't mean to get off topic just glad for any advice. Thanks Felicia


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Messages in this topic (3)
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9b. Re: Fat buildup
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 9:47 am ((PDT))

"I failed to mention that she is making a mess of her bed and blankets
lately and digging at my floor, could this be a symptom. If this is false
pregnancy what do I do. Should I wait it out and for how long? Does this
required a vet?"

That definitely sounds like false pregnancy - no vet required - just let her
do her thing. I forget how long they last - a month or so??
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com


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Messages in this topic (3)
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9c. Re: Fat buildup
Posted by: "merril Woolf" merril@kentfieldwhippets.com whippetsrus2002
Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 11:00 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Felicia Kost <saphiradane@...> wrote:
>
> What you describe certainly fits
> to a "t" the appearance of a bitch of mine that is just coming out of
> a false pregnancy.

> Ok, thank you, so u don't think it is diet related? I failed to mention that she is making
a mess of her bed and blankets lately and digging at my floor, could this be a symptom. If
this is false pregnancy what do I do. Should I wait it out and for how long? Does this
required a vet? If this is hormonal does that mean possibly hormones from the meat I buy
could cause this I try to go as natural as I can afford? Don't mean to get off topic just glad
for any advice. Thanks Felicia


Many bitches have a false pregnancy that lasts **15 weeks** from the beginning of the
season to when the hormones will finally revert back to normal.
People with working dogs will notice this change more than the average pet owner so we
have a lot of experience with it. In a word - it sucks.

You don't need vet intervention, just good food, moderate exercise and the patience to
wait out the 15 weeks before you will see your bitch get back her body.

Keep her lean and once the 15 weeks is up, get her back on a good exercise program and
you'll be fine. Good luck,

Merril
Whippets


Messages in this topic (3)
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10. Any dogs 10+ years on raw?
Posted by: "lmclaen" lmclaen@yahoo.com lmclaen
Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 9:44 am ((PDT))

Hi everyone,

Kiwi has been on raw a full week - her stools firmed up and she
*loves* meal time! And I am enjoying it too, knowing I am doing the
best for her.

My question is: does anyone have a dog who has been fed raw for 10 or
more years, and what is the dog like, coat/teeth/ears/health in
general? I'm curious :) and looking forward to seeing it for myself.

TIA! Laeny

Messages in this topic (1)
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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11896

There are 3 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. A few questions
From: erica

2a. Re: Variety of meats
From: Susanne MacLeod

3. Someone mentioned pig something or other for...
From: angelsnoopers64859


Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. A few questions
Posted by: "erica" ericagordon@sbcglobal.net ericagsweet
Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 5:12 am ((PDT))

We are on day 3 of feeding Sophie raw! I bought chicken leg
quarters because they were $0.59/lb & whole chickens were $1.39/lb.
There is another sale at another store for bone in breasts for
$.99/lb. So I think I'll pick some of these up to make it more like
I'm using whole chickens, then I can alternate between the 2. Also
should I be feeding giblets? I can get a tub of them pretty cheap,
but I wasn't sure if it was too early to introduce them (although I
realize they count towards the meat ratio not the organ)is it too
soon? I'm planning to keep her on chicken for a couple weeks
depending on how she does with it. I was planning on doing Turkey
next (legs, wings, necks breasts).

Prior to feding raw, Sophie had a new, red, itchy spot on her
tummy. I'm keeping an eye on it but so far it is still there. With
a little dried blood from scratching. Anything I can do for that?
I'm not sure if it is from the heat or what.

Also, Sophie is due for her heart worm prevention pill. Do you
still use this commercial product? Last question, what do you use
for flea & tic prevention? I'm sure there is something more natural
than what we are using! That is one of the few chemicals that
enters this house & I'd love to replace it with something that I can
feel good about! TIA
Erica

Messages in this topic (23)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

2a. Re: Variety of meats
Posted by: "Susanne MacLeod" suzmacleod@rogers.com skull25ca
Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 6:34 am ((PDT))

I have been feeding raw now for close to 2 years, and was told my dog
was super allergic to all sorts of stuff. Through excellent quality
meat - variety being a must, and through homeopathy, my Katie does the
best with variety. She can eat everything! Never the same meal two
days in a row!!!
Suz Kate and Joey

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

3. Someone mentioned pig something or other for...
Posted by: "angelsnoopers64859" angelsnoopers64859@yahoo.com angelsnoopers64859
Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 6:35 am ((PDT))

putting on weight. What was it?

Thanks,
Valerie

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

All information on this list represents personal opinion only. By staying on this list, you agree to never hold anyone from this list or associated with this list liable for any information posted through this list. You agree to take personal responsibility for your learning, and for personal responsibility for what you feed yourself, your family, and your dogs, cats, ferrets, or any other animal that lives under your care. If you don't agree, please unsubscribe immediately.

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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11895

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Feeding arw to a dog who has had a mouth Biopsy
From: costrowski75
1b. Re: Feeding arw to a dog who has had a mouth Biopsy
From: Susanne MacLeod

2a. Re: Q re pork stomach
From: costrowski75
2b. Re: Q re pork stomach
From: Daisy Foxworth
2c. Re: Q re pork stomach
From: Daisy Foxworth
2d. Re: Q re pork stomach
From: Morledzep@aol.com

3a. Re: Hello, I'm a new member of the raw feeding group, not sure what
From: pigasus718
3b. Re: Hello, I'm a new member of the raw feeding group, not sure what
From: becca1066
3c. Re: Hello, I'm a new member of the raw feeding group, not sure what
From: Denise Strother

4. Re: Hello, I'm a new member of the raw feeding group, not sure w...
From: Morledzep@aol.com

5a. Re: First time question
From: Joy Redwine

6a. Re: No problems and a lovely vet
From: Bumble1994@aol.com
6b. Re: No problems and a lovely vet
From: Nathalie Poulin

7a. Feeding Pork shoulder
From: Marion LoPrinzi
7b. Re: Feeding Pork shoulder
From: Laurie Swanson
7c. Re: Feeding Pork shoulder
From: Jolene Nelson
7d. Re: Feeding Pork shoulder
From: diannem200400

8a. Variety of meats
From: tdifr62
8b. Re: Variety of meats
From: costrowski75
8c. Re: Variety of meats
From: John and Jeni Blackmon

9a. diarrhea/Abscess/runny eyes
From: Eloise Stanley

10a. Re: I need your honest experience on this..
From: Cdandp2@aol.com
10b. Re: I need your honest experience on this..
From: delcaste

11a. E vitamin
From: Andelys Peck

12a. Pig Feet
From: diannem200400


Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Re: Feeding arw to a dog who has had a mouth Biopsy
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Aug 9, 2007 1:33 pm ((PDT))

"Susanne MacLeod" <suzmacleod@...> wrote:
The prognosis is grim. Anyow, the dog's vet has
> made a comment to him, saying there is no evidence that raw will help
> the dog, which we all now is Bull. My question, is with a dog in
this
> state, who has had 2 recenets biopsy's on the roof of her mouth, is
> there any danger from feeding raw?
*****
With all due respect to hope springing eternal, I suspect the vet is
right. However, if feeding the dog a nourishing and tasty raw diet of
most anything it will eat makes the dog's remaining time a happier
time, then why the heck not try it? Improving quality life in terminal
patients is a fine achievement. If somehow healthy food also prolongs
the dog's life, that's even better.

I don't believe that bugs and germs are any more an issue now than they
would ever have been.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

1b. Re: Feeding arw to a dog who has had a mouth Biopsy
Posted by: "Susanne MacLeod" suzmacleod@rogers.com skull25ca
Date: Thu Aug 9, 2007 3:01 pm ((PDT))

I was hoping you would answer Chris.....thank-you. It's a very sad
story as the cancer is caused by poor food and/or evironmental
carcinogens. What more do people need to switch their dog to a
species appropriate diet!!!! I offered to drive a trunkload of raw
food over to him....and he isn't ready yet!!! :(
Grrrr
Suz

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

2a. Re: Q re pork stomach
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Aug 9, 2007 1:40 pm ((PDT))

"Daisy Foxworth" <daisyfoxworth@...> wrote:
I understand that white tripe is useless and that chicken
> gizzards are counted as muscle and not organ, but what about pork
> stomach? Is it glandular enough to count as an organ?
*****
Nope. Can't get there from here. If you want to feed pig stomach
tissue, that's fine; but don't do so thinking you are feeding organ
meat, cuz you ain't.

Oh well.
Chris

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________

2b. Re: Q re pork stomach
Posted by: "Daisy Foxworth" daisyfoxworth@yahoo.com daisyfoxworth
Date: Thu Aug 9, 2007 2:17 pm ((PDT))

If you want to feed pig stomach
> tissue, that's fine; but don't do so thinking you are feeding organ
> meat, cuz you ain't.
>

Thanks so much, Chris, that's what I needed to know! ;^) I didn't
buy it, figured I'd check with the experts here first.

Daisy

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________

2c. Re: Q re pork stomach
Posted by: "Daisy Foxworth" daisyfoxworth@yahoo.com daisyfoxworth
Date: Thu Aug 9, 2007 2:18 pm ((PDT))

If you want to feed pig stomach
> tissue, that's fine; but don't do so thinking you are feeding organ
> meat, cuz you ain't.
>

Thanks so much, Chris, that's what I needed to know! ;^) I didn't
buy it, figured I'd check with the experts here first.

Daisy

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________

2d. Re: Q re pork stomach
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Thu Aug 9, 2007 2:38 pm ((PDT))


In a message dated 8/9/2007 10:52:39 AM Pacific Standard Time,
daisyfoxworth@yahoo.com writes:

I understand that white tripe is useless and that chicken
gizzards are counted as muscle and not organ, but what about pork
stomach? Is it glandular enough to count as an organ?



Daisy,

Pork stomach, much like beef tripe is clean and scalded "for your safety".
And is therefore not great wolfchow.

however, i did buy a case of them once, and found that they are like leather
and make great, safe chew toys for teething puppies.

Catherine R.

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

3a. Re: Hello, I'm a new member of the raw feeding group, not sure what
Posted by: "pigasus718" pigasus718@yahoo.com pigasus718
Date: Thu Aug 9, 2007 2:17 pm ((PDT))

hi Janelle,
Glad to hear your dog is thriving on raw.
Dogs are carnivores and don't need vegetables.
Their digestive tracts and teeth are not set up
for them. Just keep giving meat/bone/organs and
your dog will get everything it needs.

Robyn


Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________

3b. Re: Hello, I'm a new member of the raw feeding group, not sure what
Posted by: "becca1066" becca1066@yahoo.com becca1066
Date: Thu Aug 9, 2007 2:17 pm ((PDT))

real simple, Jenelle:

veggies = bad
meat = good

becca

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Jenelle Fraser <fraserjenelle@...>
wrote:
>
> hello, my dog Cami just loves the raw meat diet. I have noticed so
many improvements with her it's incredible. I'm still trying to learn
more about what veggies are good and which ones are bad. If you have
suggestions please letme know. Thank you.
> Nelly
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles.
> Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>


Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________

3c. Re: Hello, I'm a new member of the raw feeding group, not sure what
Posted by: "Denise Strother" denisestrother@yahoo.com denisestrother
Date: Thu Aug 9, 2007 2:18 pm ((PDT))

Hi Nelly,
Vegetables are usually neither good nor bad, they are just species
inappropriate, just as feeding cows or horses meat is species
inappropriate.. Some dogs have problems with veggies and/or fruit
and/or grains, some don't. No dog is equipped to utilize them is the
point. Feeding vegs/fruit/grains is a wast of resources and the only
benefit is in the human's mind. Denise

hello, my dog Cami just loves the raw meat diet. I have noticed so many
improvements with her it's incredible. I'm still trying to learn more
about what veggies are good and which ones are bad. If you have
suggestions please letme know. Thank you.
Nelly


Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

4. Re: Hello, I'm a new member of the raw feeding group, not sure w...
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Thu Aug 9, 2007 2:32 pm ((PDT))


In a message dated 8/9/2007 12:24:14 PM Pacific Standard Time,
fraserjenelle@yahoo.com writes:

I'm still trying to learn more about what veggies are good and which ones are
bad. If you have suggestions please letme know. Thank you.



Nelly,

no veggies is good.. dogs don't need em, can't digest them and get any
nutritional value from them, no need to make room for them in the overall diet.

Catherine R.

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

5a. Re: First time question
Posted by: "Joy Redwine" redwine1@windstream.net redwinejoy
Date: Thu Aug 9, 2007 2:58 pm ((PDT))

Wow! You guys are such a big help. Thank you all so much for your
input. Joy


Messages in this topic (9)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

6a. Re: No problems and a lovely vet
Posted by: "Bumble1994@aol.com" Bumble1994@aol.com bumble1994
Date: Thu Aug 9, 2007 3:22 pm ((PDT))


In a message dated 8/9/2007 4:26:05 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Nathalie
Poulin writes:

It's probably because they can't push you to buy kibble for the cows and
horses!


****
Wrong! And when they came out with the "new and improved" pellet horse feed,
many years ago, I was NOT impressed.

Lynda

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________

6b. Re: No problems and a lovely vet
Posted by: "Nathalie Poulin" poulin_nathalie@yahoo.ca poulin_nathalie
Date: Thu Aug 9, 2007 5:02 pm ((PDT))


I'm actually speachless...I thought that cows and
horses ate naturally. I wasn't aware that there was
pellet's for horses.
So much for my thoughts!

Nathalie

> It's probably because they can't push you to buy
> kibble for the cows and
> horses!
>
>
> ****
> Wrong! And when they came out with the "new and
> improved" pellet horse feed,
> many years ago, I was NOT impressed.
>
> Lynda
>
>
>
> ************************************** Get a sneak
> peek of the all-new AOL at
> http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>

Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail at http://mrd.mail.yahoo.com/try_beta?.intl=ca

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

7a. Feeding Pork shoulder
Posted by: "Marion LoPrinzi" mbldesigns@yahoo.com mbldesigns
Date: Thu Aug 9, 2007 6:09 pm ((PDT))

Hi,

I've just had to switch 2 of my dogs over to pork, 1 seems to be allergic to chicken, his ears have exploded with rash as have his armpits and rear end, the other won't eat chicken no matter what I do. So I found a picnic pork shoulder. They loved it. But I have questions.

1- there is a lot of fat and thick skin, I'm sure if I feed that, they will get sick, what do I do with it? feed a little at a time? throw it out? freeze and save for winter feeding?

2- the bone is huge!!! so I cannot cut it for sharing. I have 6 dogs in the house and if I give it to just one, there will be fights. same outside where I have 2 dogs. Do I throw it out? or do I freeze it and future ones and wait till I have enough for everyone to have one and then watch them chew? are these considered rec bones?

3- since these 2 dogs are going to be solely on pork for a while, and they're going to be getting mostly if not all meat, that means no bone. Should I be buying them some pork rib bones so they get the bone?

Thank you in advance,
Marion and the gang


Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________

7b. Re: Feeding Pork shoulder
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Thu Aug 9, 2007 7:27 pm ((PDT))

Hi Marion,

I bought a bunch of lamb recently, sight unseen, and it turned out to
be quite fatty. My dog can't tolerate a lot of fat (loose stool), so
I'm freezing some for treats (to give sparingly in bits). I guess I
could also add it to leaner meat meals. But it is definitely
bringing my cost up on that item. If I were you, I'd cut a lot of it
off and see how your dogs do. If their stools look good, then try
leaving more on next time. But a lot of people can feed fattier cuts
with no problem (especially if not a newbie rawfed dog).

I would try to get some big pork necks or slabs of ribs to add in if
you're getting a lot of meatymeat pork hunks. But can you feed the
shoulder bone to one of the dogs in a crate or separate room and then
rotate who gets the bone/who gets fed separately? Or can you buy
enough shoulders for each dog and then cut off hunks of meat for all
the dogs for one or two days and feed the remaining meat on bone the
next (or something like that?)?

I only have 1 dog--hopefully others can comment more on the food
aggression issue.

Laurie


Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________

7c. Re: Feeding Pork shoulder
Posted by: "Jolene Nelson" imperial_bloodlines@yahoo.com imperial_bloodlines
Date: Thu Aug 9, 2007 7:56 pm ((PDT))

Hey Marion,

Pork shoulders are my staple food for my bullies. Each dog can devour one on their own though so usually they each get one about twice a week. Chicken backs, necks, quarters, livers, offal etc make up the rest of the meals for the week.

I would definitely say add some bone with chicken backs/quarters a few times a week. Also ensure plenty organs.

The fat on it....they eat that too...all of it. The first few times I fed they did have slightly runny stools, but it's not an issue now. Unless your dog has specific fat issues I would say leave it on. It's actually pretty good for the whole chewing exercise.

Oh! And talk to your meat guy at the market, he will cut the shoulder for you if they do not offer it sliced. My market has whole and sliced shoulder which gives nice chunks of bone perfect for gnawing. They do eventually eat the bone most of the times when it is sliced however.

Hope that helps,

Jo

Marion LoPrinzi <mbldesigns@yahoo.com> wrote: Hi,

1- there is a lot of fat and thick skin, I'm sure if I feed that, they will get sick, what do I do with it? feed a little at a time? throw it out? freeze and save for winter feeding?

2- the bone is huge!!! so I cannot cut it for sharing.

3- since these 2 dogs are going to be solely on pork for a while, and they're going to be getting mostly if not all meat, that means no bone. Should I be buying them some pork rib bones so they get the bone?

Thank you in advance,
Marion and the gang



Jolene Nelson
I'm a proud Raw Bully owner!
Imperial Bulldoggs


---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________

7d. Re: Feeding Pork shoulder
Posted by: "diannem200400" diannem200400@yahoo.com diannem200400
Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 4:31 am ((PDT))

Hi Marion:

Get a meat saw! I feed pork as a primary meat. I get 7 or 8 pound
picnic porks and saw them into 3 pieces so each dog gets lots of meat
and a nice piece of bone. They will eat all the bone. I used a
regular wood saw, but it was a pain. A hunter friend lent me his meat
saw and it works great; you can saw through a pork bone in a couple of
minutes. The thick fat is great for chewing. My guys got some loose
stools the first few times I fed it, but they have no problem now.

Dianne M.

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Marion LoPrinzi <mbldesigns@...>
wrote:

> 2- the bone is huge!!! so I cannot cut it for sharing.

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

8a. Variety of meats
Posted by: "tdifr62" tdifraia@comcast.net tdifr62
Date: Thu Aug 9, 2007 7:25 pm ((PDT))

Is it OK to change the variety of meats on a weekly basis. Ie.. Mon beef,
Tue chicken Wed Pork Thur beef Fri Fish. Is that kind of change
good, because of the different variety? Or will it upset his digestive
system?
Tommy D

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

8b. Re: Variety of meats
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Aug 9, 2007 7:41 pm ((PDT))

"tdifr62" <tdifraia@...> wrote:
>
> Is it OK to change the variety of meats on a weekly basis. Ie.. Mon
beef,
> Tue chicken Wed Pork Thur beef Fri Fish. Is that kind of change
> good, because of the different variety? Or will it upset his digestive
> system?
*****
It is okay; it is okay to go lengths of time feeding one protein; it is
even okay to mix them together in one pot luckish sort of meal.

The only thing I would recommend is you not try it out suddenlike. If
you have just started feeding raw, give your dog a chance to get to
know meats one by one--not necessarily a deep meaningful relationship,
but perhaps more than a nodding acquaintence.

When you have a sense of how your dog eats what, you canorganize
feedings however you want. There is nothing intrinsically upsetting
about arranging meals this way. It's a little more rigid than I feed,
but I suspect many people feed a specific rotation and do so without
problems.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

8c. Re: Variety of meats
Posted by: "John and Jeni Blackmon" jonjeni777@sbcglobal.net jeniavidiva
Date: Thu Aug 9, 2007 7:47 pm ((PDT))

It's fine if your dog is used to it, but not in the beginning. For the first few weeks one source of protein is best. When you first change to a different source, you should keep the next source for at least a week, and then the next change for a week and then so on. Until you feel your dog(s) are used to the different meats. Mine snack on ribs and pigs feet and other kinds of bones so they get all kinds of stuff all along. How long have you been doing this? My dogs do whatever is first in the freezer for me to get at.:) But they have been raw fed all along. How about yours?
In answer to your question, for my dogs, nope, it's fine, they love the change daily, every day they get something different. Most dogs once on the diet can handle the different kinds of meats, and like it. Mine didn't like fish, but now they like canned mackeral. Then some days they get the same thing. Just depends on what's in the freezer, what was on sale, and how much I got of it:)
Jeni

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
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________________________________________________________________________

9a. diarrhea/Abscess/runny eyes
Posted by: "Eloise Stanley" e.l.o.i.s.e@sbcglobal.net faintatheart
Date: Thu Aug 9, 2007 7:26 pm ((PDT))

how much slippery elm would you give to help diarrhea go away? (20lb
dog) how do you give it...is it a powder on top of food or a liquid?
thanks
eloise

(ps I am not up on my internet lingo but I have seen this on a few
posts...what does TIA stand for?)


Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

10a. Re: I need your honest experience on this..
Posted by: "Cdandp2@aol.com" Cdandp2@aol.com cdandp
Date: Thu Aug 9, 2007 8:38 pm ((PDT))

I"m a relative newbie. My second try with raw (first with previous cocker
who succumbed to kidney failure which I thought I'd caused with the
diet...sigh). I don't believe that anymore.

My current guy has been on raw for about 5 months already. He had one
scarey moment with a large piece of liver or kidney (soft and squishy and he
doesn't rip/tear so he swallowed the whole chunk and gagged for a moment or so
then swallowed it). BUT, and I'm with other folk on the list here, he almost
choked TWICE on kibble from inhaling too much too fast. ONe of those was way
more scarier (I swear he stopped breathing for a moment) than the organ meat
thing. With the bones, he seems to work them down or crunch them and swallow
pieces. When he swallows too much he just vomits up little bits and eats
them. So far so good.

But overall his energy, mood, coat, EYES, TEETH, ears...everything just
seems brighter. So I'm going with this. My guy is heartworm positive and has
other problems, but I still see this improvement in his overall quality of
health/energy so I'm sticking with it.

If he should have the misfortune of death by raw (a totally possible
occurrence in nature as well), totally happy and full of energy, I'll take that over
slow death and disease by kibble.

BTW, Natural Balance just sent me a letter with a $5.00 (FIVE
DOLLAR!!!$%%%**##) coupon encouraging me to purchase their food now that I can be assured
that they've put safety measure into practice (still no mention of any
guarantee that the food is safe though!!!)...and apologies for having had to recall
the food that my dog was eating before because it was poison. FIVE
DOLLARS!!!! Right.

Carol for Spencer (having survived a near miss with Natural Balance Venison
and Brown Rice I'll take raw meat, organs, and bones thank you very much)

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (15)
________________________________________________________________________

10b. Re: I need your honest experience on this..
Posted by: "delcaste" delcaste@yahoo.com delcaste
Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 4:31 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "lar07911" <lar07911@...> wrote:

Feedback welcome please! Thanks,
> Laura
>
Hi Laura,

I am a Newbie here but I have to tell you that switching to raw has
made such a wonderful difference in my dogs lives. They took to raw
like they'd been eating it all their lives! Besides they love their
chicken feet treats, lol!

I have a "gulper" and have been giving her larger portions and when
she is almost done I take it away and give it to the other dogs. She
has choked on this diet but she has also choked many more times on
the k****ble. I just have to watch her and I'm learning what I can
and can't give her.

Just jump in, IMO, you'll never be sorry you did.

Silvina and the pugs with Chino

Messages in this topic (15)
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________________________________________________________________________

11a. E vitamin
Posted by: "Andelys Peck" a_peck@hotmail.com rottsnkelpies
Date: Thu Aug 9, 2007 9:06 pm ((PDT))

Hello,
I do not dose Vitamin E according to how much Salmon Oil I give rather
according to the weight of that particular K9.I don't know how big your dog
is but mine are around 90 lbs and I give them 3000 mg salmon oil per day and
400 iu of Vitamin E every other day.But then I don't feel more is always
better as regards to vitamins,some give much higher doses.J.M.O.Hope that
helps,

Andy

_________________________________________________________________
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Messages in this topic (11)
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12a. Pig Feet
Posted by: "diannem200400" diannem200400@yahoo.com diannem200400
Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 4:31 am ((PDT))

I got a good deal on pig's feet, but I haven't fed them before. My
question is, do they have any nutritive value or are they just
recreational? They are about 12 inches long and look to have meat on
them, but it's hard to tell. If I fed 3 or 4 of them to a big dog,
would it be a meal, or should I just give them as fun chewie toys?

Dianne M.

Messages in this topic (5)
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