Feed Pets Raw Food: Jul 1, 2007

Sunday, July 1, 2007

[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11750

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Very sick puppy
From: tottime47

2a. Re: Need Help. PLEASE
From: Casey Post
2b. Re: Need Help. PLEASE
From: Anntiga@aol.com
2c. Re: Need Help. PLEASE
From: Kathy McCusker
2d. Re: Need Help. PLEASE
From: Shannon Parker
2e. Re: Need Help. PLEASE
From: Casey Post
2f. Need Help. PLEASE
From: Laurel-Anne Gordon
2g. Re: Need Help. PLEASE
From: carnesbill

3a. I Finally Took The Plunge (sorry long)
From: Maiakitas@aol.com
3b. Re: I Finally Took The Plunge (sorry long)
From: carnesbill

4a. Re: The hurls
From: tottime47

5a. GTA meat buying group
From: Shannon Parker
5b. Re: GTA meat buying group
From: Jean

6a. Re: Our 2nd week on raw. Refusing turkey please help
From: Bumble1994@aol.com
6b. Re: Our 2nd week on raw. Refusing turkey please help
From: Shireen

7a. Re: Abbreviations
From: Bearhair
7b. Re: Abbreviations
From: Giselle
7c. Re: Abbreviations
From: Jeannine
7d. Re: Abbreviations
From: ginny wilken
7e. Re: Abbreviations
From: Giselle
7f. Re: Abbreviations
From: Jeannine

8a. Re: Howdy!
From: costrowski75

9a. Re: different cuts of ribs - and lamb/goat cuts
From: costrowski75

10a. Ground beef
From: trayc2244

11a. Re: Advice re: softest bones?
From: Samantha Morris

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Re: Very sick puppy
Posted by: "tottime47" tottime@aol.com tottime47
Date: Sun Jul 1, 2007 2:59 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "chamelett2003"
<chamelett2003@...> wrote:
Oh, I never thought of cooked food being harder to digest. I am so
afraid of giving her raw with all the bacteria on it. I will try to
find the slippery elm

Thanks,Jill
-------------
Hi Jill,

Glad to hear she's doing so well..........

As long as the chicken is safe for your family, it's safe for
her........I wouldn't worry about any bacteria.

There are lots of back posts explaining how cooking the food changes
the proteins it in and how it's so much harder for a dog to digest
it..........
Maybe, just do some reading when you get time....

That's why this list and these great people are here, to help us
learn how to feed raw!

Carol & Charkee

Messages in this topic (16)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

2a. Re: Need Help. PLEASE
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Sun Jul 1, 2007 3:16 pm ((PDT))

> Hi, I just fed Jagger his supper. He ate 3 chicken thighs and 1
> breast. He ate it with gusto and then went outside and threw it all
> up. It didn't look like he chewed any of it. Now he is looking for
> more to eat. Is this normal or am I doing something wrong. If he is
> hungry should I feed him again?Kathy

Kathy,

This can happen ... it's not a horrible thing, more of the stomach being
"surprised" by the sudden appearance of food (and maybe cold food - some
animals are more sensitive to food temp than others).

Did he make any move to re-eat what he tossed at all?

Casey

Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________

2b. Re: Need Help. PLEASE
Posted by: "Anntiga@aol.com" Anntiga@aol.com anntiga
Date: Sun Jul 1, 2007 4:03 pm ((PDT))

Hi!

He could actually eat what he just threw up. For dogs, sometimes they have
to eat it twice. If Jagger is new to raw feeding, you might want to feed him
less thighs and more breasts. For a dog just getting used to raw feeding,
sometimes a few thigh legs can be harder to digest.

If you have already cleaned up, if it were me, I would give Jagger a breast.

Good luck.

Ann and Norman
San Francisco Peninsula, CA, USA

************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________

2c. Re: Need Help. PLEASE
Posted by: "Kathy McCusker" kmccusker72@hotmail.com kathym14456
Date: Sun Jul 1, 2007 4:03 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Casey Post" <mikken@...> wrote:
>

Hi Casey, yes he would have eaten it again if I didn't stop him.
Totally grossed me out. The chiken thighs were still slightly
frozen, I had soaked them in warm water but maybe not long enough. I
defrosted some more and made sure they were warm. He ate them slower
and I didn't feed as much. I want to make sure they stay down. He is
looking for more to eat. Thanks for the quick reply, I'm not really
sure I'm doing the right thing and still need reasurrance. Thanks
again, Kathy

>
>
> > Hi, I just fed Jagger his supper. He ate 3 chicken thighs and 1
> > breast. He ate it with gusto and then went outside and threw it
all
> > up. It didn't look like he chewed any of it. Now he is looking
for
> > more to eat. Is this normal or am I doing something wrong. If he
is
> > hungry should I feed him again?Kathy
>
>
> Kathy,
>
> This can happen ... it's not a horrible thing, more of the stomach
being
> "surprised" by the sudden appearance of food (and maybe cold food -
some
> animals are more sensitive to food temp than others).
>
> Did he make any move to re-eat what he tossed at all?
>
> Casey
>

Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________

2d. Re: Need Help. PLEASE
Posted by: "Shannon Parker" mrbatisse@yahoo.ca mrbatisse
Date: Sun Jul 1, 2007 4:15 pm ((PDT))

Hi Kathy,

My Argentine Dogo did the exact same thing for the first time today. He ate his chicken leg quarters fast (like usual) and they came right back up on my living room floor (I know, ew) fully intact,about 5 mins after. He wouldn't touch with all the stomach juices, but I washed it all off, cut it up into smaller pieces and he was just fine with it. I watched him carefully to make sure he wasn't going to choke on any of the smaller pieces. I'm not sure what brought it on, but he's eating everything fine now.

Shannon

Casey Post <mikken@neo.rr.com> wrote:

Recent Activity

119
New Members

Visit Your Group
SPONSORED LINKS

Dog health product
Diet and nutrition
Dog health
Dog health food
Dog health problem

Yahoo! TV
Staying in tonight?
Check listings to
see what is on.

Sitebuilder
Build a web site
quickly & easily
with Sitebuilder.

Yoga Groups
Find Enlightenment
& exchange insights
with other members

---------------------------------
Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________

2e. Re: Need Help. PLEASE
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Sun Jul 1, 2007 4:31 pm ((PDT))

> Hi Casey, yes he would have eaten it again if I didn't stop him.
> Totally grossed me out.

Ah, yeah, it's a dog thing. You could have let him re-eat them with no
worries - something to keep in mind for the future. Way easier to let the
dog clean up after himself, in my experience! Totally revolting from a
human point of view, of course, but perfectly normal dog behavior...

>The chiken thighs were still slightly
> frozen, I had soaked them in warm water but maybe not long enough. I
> defrosted some more and made sure they were warm. He ate them slower
> and I didn't feed as much. I want to make sure they stay down. He is
> looking for more to eat.

Sounds like no biggie, then. Normal dog response to cold food happening too
fast for the stomach's comfort zone and it got designated as "return to
sender". <shrug> Happens.

>Thanks for the quick reply, I'm not really
> sure I'm doing the right thing and still need reasurrance.

It's scary in the early days, sure. Doing anything new like this where
you're taking on a serious responsibility can be daunting, I get that.
Heck, I still remember my first night feeding raw - I woke the dogs up every
hour to make sure that they were still breathing. By about 4am, they were
starting to get ticked with me disturbing their sleep...needless to say,
they survived...

Casey

Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________

2f. Need Help. PLEASE
Posted by: "Laurel-Anne Gordon" laragord@telus.net tueschee2
Date: Sun Jul 1, 2007 6:13 pm ((PDT))

> Hi, I just fed Jagger his supper. He ate 3 chicken thighs and 1
> breast. He ate it with gusto and then went outside and threw it all
> up. It didn't look like he chewed any of it.

He would have to chew it if it was frozen - and many of us would see
if he would eat the regurgitated meat later.

Laurel-Anne

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________

2g. Re: Need Help. PLEASE
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sun Jul 1, 2007 8:04 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Kathy McCusker" <kmccusker72@...>
wrote:
>
> He ate it with gusto and then went outside and threw it all
> up.

As you have found out by now, its not unusual for newly switched dogs
to throw up and eat it again. IMO its because they haven't learned
how much to chew it or how small to break up the bones. They do
better the 2nd time. Let him re-eat it and all is well. This
behavior will decrease as the dog learns how to eat real food.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

3a. I Finally Took The Plunge (sorry long)
Posted by: "Maiakitas@aol.com" Maiakitas@aol.com maiakitas
Date: Sun Jul 1, 2007 4:10 pm ((PDT))

HI All,

Today is the 1st of the month so I took the plunge and finally did it. I gave
my Akitas, currently down to 2 dogs, raw food. Oh my goodness....they
didn't just drop over dead! :o) I gave them each a split breast, whatever the heck
that means. Each was a couple ounces over a pound. I put them each in a pen
and went to work on the chicken. I took off the skin, gave each breast a couple
of wacks with a hammer, pulled it apart a little bit and gave it to them.
After staring in their bowls for awhile, obviously thinking what the heck is this,
they each hesitantly took their respective breast out of the clean bowl onto
the ground. The male first took his into the back of his house and I thought,
oh shoot, I'm going have to climb in that dogloo to get it out, but after
going in and out a few times, he brought it back out. He then kept touching it
very gently with his big OLE foot and pushing it around and finally laid down and
took his time and ate it. My bitch, after staring at her dish for an
eternity, I decided to hand it took her and it was like a light bulb went off. She
also took her time chewing until she was finished.

After they were done, they both were looking at me with that I'm still hungry
look, so I gave them each 2 wings each, which they promptly ate.

How did I do? Was I supposed to take the skin off? Also I think how much they
each need to eat per day. They are both just two and Bailey the bitch weighs
80 lbs, perfect weight for her so I figure she will probably need 2- 2.5 lbs a
day. Beau, the dog is about 115 and he is a bit thin, so I guess I will have
to play with his percentage but will start around 3-3.5lbs.

Neither dog has any health issues. I understand to keep them on one protein
for a week or more to hopefully avoid the dreaded upset tummy. One last
thought, Beau, who is not much of a chow hound, looked quite happy while he was
eating and definitely wanted more. Bailey eats everything so not an issue, but she
did seem to enjoy hers too.

Any other thought, prayers, suggestions would be greatly appreciated. PHEW!!

Regards,
Carla

**************************************
See what's free at

http://www.aol.com.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________

3b. Re: I Finally Took The Plunge (sorry long)
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sun Jul 1, 2007 8:06 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Maiakitas@... wrote:

> I took off the skin, gave each breast a couple
> of wacks with a hammer, pulled it apart a little bit and gave
> it to them.

Forget the hammer and pulling apart. They are 2yo Akitas. They can
handle chicken parts or a whole chicken for that matter.

> After they were done, they both were looking at me with that
> I'm still hungry
> look, so I gave them each 2 wings each, which they promptly ate.

It's pretty common for dogs to want more raw food. My 2 Danes are
will eat as long as I give out parts. :) Wings are too small for
dogs the size of yours. They can swallow them whole and they CAN
become a choking hazzard. Feed parts they really have to chew up
before they swallow them. If you have more wings either eat them
yourself or watch them closely and don't get any more.

> How did I do?

All in all you did great except for the two things I mentioned. You
would learn those in time anyway.

> Was I supposed to take the skin off?

Most people don't unless the dogs are having digestive problems.
Skin is part of the animal and as such, should be fed unless your
dogs are having problems. It wouldn't hurt to wait a week or so to
begin feeding skin or you could gradually up the amount of skin fed
or you could just begin feeding skin and hope for the best. They
will probably be able to handle it ok.

> Also I think how much they
> each need to eat per day.

You will probably stop worrying so much about pounds and start
thinking about items. For example, with my dogs, either 1 or 2
chicken quarters is a meal depending on how heavy they look (both
the quarters and the dogs). Same with turkey necks or anything
else. You will feed by the item and not by pounds.

> Neither dog has any health issues. I understand to keep them
> on one protein
> for a week or more to hopefully avoid the dreaded upset tummy.

Correct. :)

> Any other thought, prayers, suggestions would be
> greatly appreciated. PHEW!!

Just keep it up. It will be a little awkward until you work out
routines and methods and figure out the easiest way to pack them and
learn how to shop for dog food now. In a couple of months it will
become second nature to you.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

4a. Re: The hurls
Posted by: "tottime47" tottime@aol.com tottime47
Date: Sun Jul 1, 2007 4:15 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "mob1043" <ynotbeastar@> wrote:

> It looks like bits of bone and organ, but it sure smells! The
turkey vultures that fly above our house love it!
>
> Michele

Michele,

As long as it's not every meal...

Sounds like it's just the extra bone that his tummy doesn't like.....

Sometimes bones just sit there and finally the tummy decides they
aren't needed and they gotta come out, one end or the other...

Try a few meatier meals and see if he throws any of them up..

At least you got turkey vultures to help with cleanup, lol..

Carol & Charkee

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

5a. GTA meat buying group
Posted by: "Shannon Parker" mrbatisse@yahoo.ca mrbatisse
Date: Sun Jul 1, 2007 4:54 pm ((PDT))

Hi All of those in the greater Toronto area,

I just wanted to give a heads up that I found a great source of organ meat at highland markets in Stoney Creek. It's located at the corner of Highland and Tapley Town Road (on the mountain).

In the front entrance there is a freezer containing frozen organ mixtures..5 lb for 4 dollars. It is a mixture of liver, lung, spleen and kidney (all beef I believe) and the frozen mixture is cut into manageable cubes that can be taken out of the freezer as needed.

I just thought I would let anyone in the area know so that they can stock up.

Take care,

Shannon

---------------------------------
Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________

5b. Re: GTA meat buying group
Posted by: "Jean" zululhw@yahoo.ca zululhw
Date: Sun Jul 1, 2007 11:25 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Shannon Parker <mrbatisse@...>
wrote:
>
>
> I just wanted to give a heads up that I found a great source of
organ meat at highland markets in Stoney Creek. It's located at the
corner of Highland and Tapley Town Road (on the mountain).
>

****
Hi Shannon,

Thanks for the heads up. Much appreciated.

Jean, Kira, Strider & Mowgli

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

6a. Re: Our 2nd week on raw. Refusing turkey please help
Posted by: "Bumble1994@aol.com" Bumble1994@aol.com bumble1994
Date: Sun Jul 1, 2007 4:55 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 7/1/2007 5:59:38 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
_quiltsnmosaics@yahoo.com _ (mailto:quiltsnmosaics@yahoo.com?Subject=
Re:%20Our%202nd%20week%20on%20raw.%20Refusing%20turkey%20please%20help) writes:

Was it basted or injected with some type of
> preservative solution (most seem to be).

Yes

***
Dogs know what not to eat better than humans know. :)

Lynda

************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________

6b. Re: Our 2nd week on raw. Refusing turkey please help
Posted by: "Shireen" quiltsnmosaics@yahoo.com quiltsnmosaics
Date: Sun Jul 1, 2007 9:14 pm ((PDT))

Just wanted to say thanks for replies. I did cook the turkey somewhat
and I did debone, as I was concerned since some were no longer raw. A
little seasoning did the trick as well. I think she probably knows
what she should or shoulldn't be eating instictively. Won't do turkey
for a while.

Thanks again.
Shireen

Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

7a. Re: Abbreviations
Posted by: "Bearhair" bearhair@spamcop.net bearhair61
Date: Sun Jul 1, 2007 5:34 pm ((PDT))

Linda wrote:

>I notice a lot of you use abbre. Is there a list some where? I don't have a clue what you are talking about.

RMB is raw meaty bones

I can't think of any others right now . . . whatcha need?

Lora
Evanston, IL

Messages in this topic (9)
________________________________________________________________________

7b. Re: Abbreviations
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sun Jul 1, 2007 6:33 pm ((PDT))

Um, the most recent one I've used is SEBP - Slippery Elm Bark Powder.
I don't know that anyone has compiled a list. You just tend to pick
them up (or make 'em up) as you go along to save yourself time typing. ; )
Can you post the abbreviations that are confounding you?
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> Linda wrote:
>
> >I notice a lot of you use abbre. Is there a list some where? I
don't have a clue what you are talking about.
>
> RMB is raw meaty bones
>
> I can't think of any others right now . . . whatcha need?
>
> Lora
> Evanston, IL
>

Messages in this topic (9)
________________________________________________________________________

7c. Re: Abbreviations
Posted by: "Jeannine" rosewhatley@msn.com eastexgranny
Date: Sun Jul 1, 2007 6:33 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Bearhair <bearhair@...> wrote:
>
> Linda wrote:
>
> >I notice a lot of you use abbre. Is there a list some where? I
don't have a clue what you are talking about.
>
> RMB is raw meaty bones
>
> I can't think of any others right now . . . whatcha need?
>
> Lora
> Evanston, IL
>
How about GSD?? What is that?
Jeannine

Messages in this topic (9)
________________________________________________________________________

7d. Re: Abbreviations
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Sun Jul 1, 2007 6:41 pm ((PDT))

On Jul 1, 2007, at 6:16 PM, Jeannine wrote:

> How about GSD?? What is that?
> Jeannine
>

German Shepherd Dog

ginny and Tomo, an AST:)

All stunts performed without a net!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (9)
________________________________________________________________________

7e. Re: Abbreviations
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sun Jul 1, 2007 6:45 pm ((PDT))

If you go to the website and type abbreviations into the search box,
you'll find a lot of threads with Qs & As about the subject.
; )
Giselle

> > How about GSD?? What is that?
> > Jeannine
> >
>
>
> German Shepherd Dog
>
>
> ginny and Tomo, an AST:)
>
>
> All stunts performed without a net!
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Messages in this topic (9)
________________________________________________________________________

7f. Re: Abbreviations
Posted by: "Jeannine" rosewhatley@msn.com eastexgranny
Date: Sun Jul 1, 2007 7:06 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Giselle" <megan.giselle@...>
wrote:
>
> If you go to the website and type abbreviations into the search box,
> you'll find a lot of threads with Qs & As about the subject.
> ; )
> Giselle
>
> > > How about GSD?? What is that?
> > > Jeannine
> > >
> >
> >
> > German Shepherd Dog
> >
> >
> > ginny and Tomo, an AST:)
> > > > All stunts performed without a net!

Thanks Giselle, sooner or later I'll familarize myself with all the
terms here!
Jeannine
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

Messages in this topic (9)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

8a. Re: Howdy!
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Jul 1, 2007 6:10 pm ((PDT))

"sazkeeper" <sazkeeper@...> wrote:

I have two
> GSD - Bodo and Bart, a very elderly cat and a pair of genets
(mammal-
> wise, at least.) I just switched the two dogs to raw...so far, so
> good. Right now they are both eating chicken backs, a little yogurt
> in the morning, fish oil, and nupro joint supplement.
*****
Here's the deal: you have big dogs. What you are currently feeding
is not optimal for big dogs. In fact, though your choices absolutely
get your dogs away kibble (which is a very good thing indeed) they
can use some adjusting. You can--easily--do better for your GSDs.

Chicken backs should be upgraded to chicken leg quarters at the very
least; chicken halves would be better yet. Your dogs are certainly
capable of eating whole chickens, but since they're more ready for
raw than you are, you got time.

What you can do right now to those backs though is add meat. When I
feed chicken backs to my retrievers, I add them to substantial meaty
meals (yesterday each dog got two pounds of beef, some beef spleen
and a chicken back).

Chicken backs can be feed solo if you also feed generous portions of
meat elsewhere in the diet. Meat rules a good raw diet. Bones are
essential but they do not run the show.

A little yogurt in the morning is lovely for humans but for your dogs
it is meaningless. Maybe even worse, if your dogs are lactose
intolerant. Feed it knowing that once yogurt hits your dogs'
digestive soup, the yogurt dies. If you need to feed a probiotic,
choose one that's delivered via a capsule that can make it through to
the intestines, where perhaps the probiotic will have a chance to
strut its stuff.

And Nupro is a supplement that at best supports a kibblefed dog. For
a raw fed dog, the ingredients are either redundant or completely
unnecessary. The only supplement worth considering at this point is
fish body oil or Salmon oil, for the Omega 3 fatty acids. If you
need to feed glucosamine/chondroitin, first know that they occur
naturally in ALL movable joints, and second, if you prefer to use a
supplement, buy human grade and keep it simple

not too sure if I will switch Bullet, my cat, as he
> is 17 yrs old and doesn't have too many teeth left. Any advice in
> that area?
*****
I suggest you subscribe to RawCat, where cats--as is their wont--
reign supreme.

One thing I have already run into is the training treat thing, but I
> see there is a file on the subject. I haven't read it all the way
> through - does it have detailed cooking instructions for the liver?
*****
The Rawfeeding list is not the place to discuss detailed cooking
instructions for anything! Please right now before you get into it
take all treat-making questions to RawChat. If you ask such
questions here your posts will be drawn and quartered and flung to
the four winds.

I hope I get a lot
> from this resource!
*****
You might browse the list message archives. Hard NOT to get a lot
from them.

Post message: rawcat@yahoogroups.com
Subscribe: rawcat-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Unsubscribe: rawcat-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Post message: Rawchat@yahoogroups.com
Subscribe: Rawchat-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Unsubscribe: Rawchat-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Here's how to join Yahoogroups so you can access the Rawfeeding
message archives:
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/join

Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

9a. Re: different cuts of ribs - and lamb/goat cuts
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Jul 1, 2007 6:50 pm ((PDT))

"Jessie" <O_snobunnie_O@...> wrote:
> about how much do typical goats weigh? (silly question I know...
still
> something I've not had the pleasure of dealing with yet)
*****
Dressed out, maybe 45 pounds. Somewhere around there.

> I think when I call in the order I'll ask if I can get half of the
six
> way goat... maybe try lamb next time (I hear it tends to be very rich
> and takes some adjusting to?).
*****
If the 6-cut goat comes in a case, you may have trouble convincing the
Meat Dude to split the order for you; but it can't hurt to ask! The
goat I get, the box is barely larger than a case of chicken backs or
necks.

I don't think lamb is any harder to adjust to than pork. Or beef for
that matter. I think the fat is what throws the dog off, and too much
fat is a dog by dog judgement. Perhaps you might introduce it as part
of a larger meal, just some cut up meat, nothing startling.

*oh, off topic but can you just add a signature somewhere?
*****
Nope. You get to rely on your good old self to remember to sign your
posts.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (13)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

10a. Ground beef
Posted by: "trayc2244" BreeZ119@catt.com trayc2244
Date: Sun Jul 1, 2007 8:36 pm ((PDT))

I called my butcher and asked them to bag up 30 packs of scrap meat
for me the other day. I ran in and got it, so I didn't check it out
before I left. When I got home to put it in the freezer I noticed that
most of it was ground beef. Is ground beef okay to feed?

Thanks,
Tracy

Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

11a. Re: Advice re: softest bones?
Posted by: "Samantha Morris" smmastai@yahoo.com smmastai
Date: Sun Jul 1, 2007 10:02 pm ((PDT))

Sorry for not signing my email. Yes I have been
feeding whole animals, specifically whole chickens,
duck, turkey and on occasion, rabbit. I got the
oxtail cut into 2 pieces and also tried lamb ribs this
weekend. I know the ribs contain a fair amount of
bone so I will try to get a meatier piece of the
animal next time.

My question re. poultry legs was are they hard on the
teeth since they are weight bearing bones? I know
that may sound silly but I have avoided any weight
bearing beef bones as I knew they were hard on the
teeth... I have however fed buffalo necks and beef
necks which I bought frozen from a pet store that
carries raw. I gave these bones instead of rawhile or
something synthetic as a non-meal form of
entertainment. I learned on Saturday that my 10 month
old puppy had a slab fracture on her molar and am
trying to eliminate anything that may be too hard on
her teeth. I am assuming the beef/buffalo necks may
have been the culprit and also cow hoofs. Since I am
pretty new to all this and am still learning about
meat (we are vegetarians) I was hoping you might be
able to advise on the softer bones or best animals to
stick with? We are doing great with the poultry but I
know variety is important so any suggestions are
welcome. Thanks for your time.

Sam

____________________________________________________________________________________
Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more.

http://mobile.yahoo.com/go?refer=1GNXIC

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

All information on this list represents personal opinion only. By staying on this list, you agree to never hold anyone from this list or associated with this list liable for any information posted through this list. You agree to take personal responsibility for your learning, and for personal responsibility for what you feed yourself, your family, and your dogs, cats, ferrets, or any other animal that lives under your care. If you don't agree, please unsubscribe immediately.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/

<*> Your email settings:
Digest Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/join

(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:rawfeeding-normal@yahoogroups.com
mailto:rawfeeding-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
rawfeeding-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:

http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

------------------------------------------------------------------------

[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11749

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: different cuts of ribs - and lamb/goat cuts
From: Bearhair
1b. Re: different cuts of ribs - and lamb/goat cuts
From: Jessie

2a. Re: Our 2nd week on raw. Refusing turkey please help
From: Yasuko herron
2b. Re: Our 2nd week on raw. Refusing turkey please help
From: Sandee Lee
2c. Re: Our 2nd week on raw. Refusing turkey please help
From: Darlene Hastings
2d. Re: Our 2nd week on raw. Refusing turkey please help
From: Shireen
2e. Re: Our 2nd week on raw. Refusing turkey please help
From: Shireen

3a. Re: enough beef??
From: Casey Post

4a. File - Admin-Trim it, Sign it, and Sig lines-PLEASE READ!!!
From: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com

5.1. File - Other related lists
From: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com

6a. Re: Which bones are best for teeth clean ups?
From: jmwise80
6b. Re: Which bones are best for teeth clean ups?
From: Giselle
6c. Re: Which bones are best for teeth clean ups?
From: jmwise80

7a. Re: Feeding a whole turkey to a small dog
From: chele519
7b. Re: Feeding a whole turkey to a small dog
From: Giselle

8a. Fish Oils
From: rocketblasther
8b. Re: Fish Oils
From: Casey Post

9a. Just Started the Raw Diet...
From: tagurit182002
9b. Re: Just Started the Raw Diet...
From: Casey Post

10a. Howdy!
From: sazkeeper
10b. Re: Howdy!
From: Sandee Lee

11a. Abbreviations
From: Linda Edgington

12a. Re: Very sick puppy
From: chamelett2003

13a. Re: The hurls
From: mob1043

14. Need Help. PLEASE
From: Kathy McCusker

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Re: different cuts of ribs - and lamb/goat cuts
Posted by: "Bearhair" bearhair@spamcop.net bearhair61
Date: Sun Jul 1, 2007 12:22 pm ((PDT))

Chris O wrote:

>> The site includes brain, lung, and raw unscalded tripe for both goat
>and
>> sheep, so I'm pretty sure someone is excluding those along the way.

>No doubt.
>It's not the US end of the pipeline doing the excluding though, I don't
>think. At least not the pipeline that delivers the product called six-
>cut goat.

Probably in the US Import Regs, and their only allowed if they're labeled for
Pet Food Only.

Lora
Evanston, IL

Messages in this topic (12)
________________________________________________________________________

1b. Re: different cuts of ribs - and lamb/goat cuts
Posted by: "Jessie" O_snobunnie_O@hotmail.com osnobunnieo
Date: Sun Jul 1, 2007 2:19 pm ((PDT))

> Take the goat 6-way! For a 60lb dog, you don't want it cut up more
> than that...goat is easy eating.
>

about how much do typical goats weigh? (silly question I know... still
something I've not had the pleasure of dealing with yet)

I think when I call in the order I'll ask if I can get half of the six
way goat... maybe try lamb next time (I hear it tends to be very rich
and takes some adjusting to?).

Jessie

*oh, off topic but can you just add a signature somewhere? I'm so used
to dealing with forums where I have a set signature, which is why I
tend to forget to sign my posts... I've looked but can't find anything

Messages in this topic (12)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

2a. Re: Our 2nd week on raw. Refusing turkey please help
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sun Jul 1, 2007 12:23 pm ((PDT))

> Anything else I can do other than starve her for another day?

Hi.What about trying...

1>Put the meat in zip bag and soak in warm water to bring meat temp up to intice the smell of the meat? The more smelly,the more likely dog interested I heard.

2>Sear the meat partially and if just searing did not help,then,try sprinkle garlic powder and see if dog gets intrerested and over the time,you do searing less and less and it would be raw at some point of time.

3>Or, it may bring up some controversial view for this,but i tried this and my dog ate beef liver that suddenly she decided to protest me not to eat

What I did was beat the Egg in cup and just add about 1/2 tsp apple cidar vinegar and 1/2tsp honey and mix them and pour it over the beef liver she protested. She ate it without any problems.

I hope it helps.

yassy

---------------------------------
8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time
with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________

2b. Re: Our 2nd week on raw. Refusing turkey please help
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sun Jul 1, 2007 12:54 pm ((PDT))

Was the turkey fresh or frozen? Was it basted or injected with some type of
preservative solution (most seem to be).

When just beginning, some items are trial and error so I think you need to
have more flexibility in what you are *allowed* to buy! I'd put the turkey
in the freezer for another time, get more chickens and mix it up with some
pork roast.

You could try warming it up, slicing into the meat and smashing some
Parmesan down into the slices.

On the rare occasions I have accidentally picked up enhanced foods, my dogs
will not eat it unless rinsed well and then refrozen and thawed. They also
don't like freshly killed meat...don't know what's up with that!!?????

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Shireen" <quiltsnmosaics@yahoo.com>

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________

2c. Re: Our 2nd week on raw. Refusing turkey please help
Posted by: "Darlene Hastings" dsdgrooming1001@qwest.net darlenesdoggroom
Date: Sun Jul 1, 2007 12:55 pm ((PDT))

You might check to see if she has any teeth problems, one of our Border Collies acted like that and we checked his mouth and found 2 teeth that were infected plus the vet found puss pockets in the back of his mouth. So try checking if his teeth are ok.

Darlene
----- Original Message -----
From: Shireen
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 11:34 AM
Subject: [rawfeeding] Our 2nd week on raw. Refusing turkey please help

My 50# shephard mix was doing ok on chicken quarters last week. I had
to cut it up into chunks but she had no complaints eating. This week I
bought a whole turkey and she has turned up her nose since yesterday.
She will lick the pieces but is refusing to eat them. I did not think
there's that much of a difference between chicken and turkey flavor
IMO, then again I'm not the dog's tastebuds or nose. My husband is
ready to go back to k!bb!e if she won't eat the turkey.The chicken is
all gone and not allowed to go spend another penny unless she eats what
we already bought to feed her for the week. She seems really finicky
about what she's eating. I even smothered the turkey in an egg thinking
it'll get her to dig in but she just licks. We went for a long walk to
get hungrier, nose still turned up. Anything else I can do other than
starve her for another day?

Shireen

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________

2d. Re: Our 2nd week on raw. Refusing turkey please help
Posted by: "Shireen" quiltsnmosaics@yahoo.com quiltsnmosaics
Date: Sun Jul 1, 2007 1:26 pm ((PDT))

So try checking if his teeth are ok.

Will be seeing vet for check up Friday will mention.
Thanks
Shireen

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________

2e. Re: Our 2nd week on raw. Refusing turkey please help
Posted by: "Shireen" quiltsnmosaics@yahoo.com quiltsnmosaics
Date: Sun Jul 1, 2007 1:26 pm ((PDT))

> Was the turkey fresh or frozen?

Frozen

Was it basted or injected with some type of
> preservative solution (most seem to be).

Yes
>
> When just beginning, some items are trial and error so I think you
need to
> have more flexibility in what you are *allowed* to buy!

Lots of error on my part this week ;( pig feet, chicken gizzards or
livers even in the minutest quantity) but I'll keep trying to sneak
it in there slowly but surely.
I rinsed and repacked the turkey in single serving amounts and
refroze yesterday for future use or for the cats if she continues to
refuse it.
> You could try warming it up, slicing into the meat and smashing some
> Parmesan down into the slices.
>
I think I might try this this afternoon. She nuts about cooked turkey
so maybe she'll go for the warmed up version.

Thanks Sandee

Shireen

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

3a. Re: enough beef??
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Sun Jul 1, 2007 12:36 pm ((PDT))

>I know that I need to add more beef & variety in both of my girls diet; so
>I hit a huge score at the butcher Tuesday. I got 7 tongues & 4 hearts, for
>$11.00 total. Are those beef parts enough muscle meat to qualify? I also
>have kidney & liver too that are beef. The main part of their diet is pork
>& chicken, so I am so thrilled to get so much beef, now I just hope it's
>enough.

Terri,

Whatever you can get is great! I know that beef prices are often
ridiculous, but a score like yours is a wonderful thing! My dogs LOVE beef
tongue, but it's so hard to get for any reasonable price, that it's a rarity
in our freezer...

Congrats!

Casey

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

4a. File - Admin-Trim it, Sign it, and Sig lines-PLEASE READ!!!
Posted by: "rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com" rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sun Jul 1, 2007 12:38 pm ((PDT))

Hello all! (Don't delete without reading. Yes, there is a test later.)

Firstly, the raw feeding list was established in 1999. It has evolved under a couple of different names, but remains with primarily the same list moderation team.

This primary objective of the list is to provide a place where people who
feed raw food or who want to feed raw can discuss this and closely associated issues.

This is not a list to discuss which kibble or home cooking method is best.
There are other email lists that can provide you with that sort of forum.
The forum here is specifically to discuss appropriate raw diets.

*******A learning environment

We aim at all times to maintain a learning environment.
Every so often someone joins the list with a different agenda.
We work hard in the background to do everything we can to keep discussion on topic at all times, and those who don't find the environment comfortable (about 0.5%), we encourage to join other more suitable email lists.

The most important thing is you join a group you are comfortable with.
We acknowledge the vast differences that exist between people and their learning styles, and as you'll appreciate we can't make everyone happy.

Now for a few of the easy rules:

*******PLEASE TRIM YOUR POSTS

This means when you are replying to an email DO NOT include the ENTIRE EMAIL in your reply.

You can include a SMALL portion of the email you are replying to. Try to stick to a couple of relevant lines.

Delete all headers and footers.

List members who do not trim their posts will be placed on moderation.

**********PLEASE SIGN YOUR MAILS

This means when you are to sign your name at the bottom of every single mail you send to the list.

List members who continue to send unsigned posts after being warned risk having their mail deleted!!

**********CHANGE THE SUBJECT LINE WHEN THE SUBJECT CHANGES
This is a high volume list. Changing subject lines allows people to delete those messages that are topics they have no interest in. IF you change subject lines properly then when responding to a post of the same subject you should not have to include ANY of the email you are responding too since those reading the thread will be able to follow it anyway.

********NO MONSTER SIGNATURES PLEASE!
Several lines are ok but nothing over 4 lines please.
(and please don't advertise in your signatures either)

*********NEW MEMBERS ARE MODERATED.
You will not get OFF of moderate until you prove you can trim your posts and change your subject lines. ALSO the moderators do not have time to trim your posts for you so if a post comes through moderate that is not trimmed it will be sent back to you to trim before it is sent to the list.

If you are currently off of moderate but stop changing subject lines or trimming posts for some reason you will be put back on moderate.

Following these simple rules will make life easier for folks on digest
and save money for those folks who must PAY for their Internet by the amount of time they are on line.

Thanks so much.

List Moderators

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

5.1. File - Other related lists
Posted by: "rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com" rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sun Jul 1, 2007 12:38 pm ((PDT))

This list is part of a group of lists run by the same moderation team. Since several of the lists are quite large we often encourage that threads be taken to some of the smaller subject specific lists so you may want to join the lists that cover issues you are interested in now.

The lists are:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/oldrawguys/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/catandkittenhealth/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/learntoshow/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawcat/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DogHealth/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CarnivoreFeed-Supplier/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dogmentor/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawChat/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawbreeder/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawPup/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RMBLobby/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/canineaggression/

And if you are stuck on a particular issue that you just can't seem to work out, try this list:

http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/rawissues

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BasicRaw/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalFerrets/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawVet/
For vets, vet techs and vet students only

There is also a list of lists where other raw feeding lists can be found. Many are breed specific, location specific or subject specific.

http://www.rawlearning.com

Thanks from the moderation team!

Messages in this topic (112)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

6a. Re: Which bones are best for teeth clean ups?
Posted by: "jmwise80" jmwise80@yahoo.com jmwise80
Date: Sun Jul 1, 2007 12:54 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Giselle" <megan.giselle@...>
wrote:

> Don't try to turn your older dog's lifetime of poor dental hygiene
> around in a few short weeks.

My 2.5 year old dog has been eating raw for about 7 or 8 months. I
would probably say that only about 3 of those months were done
properly with good big pieces of food that he had to work on.(I
didn't know any better)

He got all of the big spots of calculus off except for the smaller
upper teeth in the back of his jaw. There is also some brown tartar
spots on one side of his mouth. He doesn't have any pain on that
side and no damage on any teeth. I think it is because one of his
upper teeth on that side grew in perpindicular to the way it was
suppose to and therefore some of the scissor action is gone. He also
has some tartar on his front teeth and canines. His breath and gums
are also MUCH better than before.

When do you give up and go to the vet and get a dental? I feel like
if they got cleaned that it could be maintained with the way he eats
now. I just don't want anything to get worse than it is.

Michael Wise

Messages in this topic (9)
________________________________________________________________________

6b. Re: Which bones are best for teeth clean ups?
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sun Jul 1, 2007 1:20 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Michael!
As long as you are providing large, engaging portions for your dog,
his dental progress will continue. When in doubt, go Bigger, and
Meatier! : )
Some dogs use one side of their jaws more than the other side. The
more infrequently used side will take longer to clean up.
You have to realize that some dogs have permanently stained teeth from
the calculus and tartar deposits. The calculus and tartar will
disappear, but nothing, not even a vet cleaning, can remove the stains.
IME & O, he don't need no stinkin' vet cleaning. ; )
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> My 2.5 year old dog has been eating raw for about 7 or 8 months. I
> would probably say that only about 3 of those months were done
> properly with good big pieces of food that he had to work on.(I
> didn't know any better)
>
> He got all of the big spots of calculus off except for the smaller
> upper teeth in the back of his jaw. There is also some brown tartar
> spots on one side of his mouth. He doesn't have any pain on that
> side and no damage on any teeth. I think it is because one of his
> upper teeth on that side grew in perpendicular to the way it was
> suppose to and therefore some of the scissor action is gone. He also
> has some tartar on his front teeth and canines. His breath and gums
> are also MUCH better than before.
>
> When do you give up and go to the vet and get a dental? I feel like
> if they got cleaned that it could be maintained with the way he eats
> now. I just don't want anything to get worse than it is.
>
> Michael Wise
>

Messages in this topic (9)
________________________________________________________________________

6c. Re: Which bones are best for teeth clean ups?
Posted by: "jmwise80" jmwise80@yahoo.com jmwise80
Date: Sun Jul 1, 2007 2:27 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Giselle" <megan.giselle@...> wrote:
>
> Hi, Michael!
> As long as you are providing large, engaging portions for your dog,
> his dental progress will continue. When in doubt, go Bigger, and
> Meatier! : )
> Some dogs use one side of their jaws more than the other side. The
> more infrequently used side will take longer to clean up.
> You have to realize that some dogs have permanently stained teeth from
> the calculus and tartar deposits. The calculus and tartar will
> disappear, but nothing, not even a vet cleaning, can remove the
stains.
> IME & O, he don't need no stinkin' vet cleaning. ; )
> TC
> Giselle
> with Bea in New Jersey
>

Cool! He obviously doesn't have the best teeth, so you are probably
right about the permanent stains. Tennis balls took their toll on his
canines and may have affected others more than I thought. I'm
gradually trying to move to once a day, so the meals will only get
bigger.

Thanks for your help.

Michael Wise

Messages in this topic (9)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

7a. Re: Feeding a whole turkey to a small dog
Posted by: "chele519" chele519@yahoo.com chele519
Date: Sun Jul 1, 2007 12:54 pm ((PDT))

Thanks Giselle. That helps a lot! The breast was the part I was
wondering about cutting thru.
Michele

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Giselle" <megan.giselle@...> wrote:
Use heavy kitchen shears to cut through the center of the
> breast on one side of the keel. Then pull each breast half away from
> the back and cut through the easier rib bones until its separate from
> the back. A serrated knife or the kitchen shears will cut up the
> breast into smaller pieces pretty easily. You can bend the back in
> half by holding it down on the cutting board with the skin side up
and
> breaking it in half.
> TC
> Giselle
> with Bea in New Jersey

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

7b. Re: Feeding a whole turkey to a small dog
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sun Jul 1, 2007 1:23 pm ((PDT))

NPs! Glad to help, Michele.
TC
Giselle

> Thanks Giselle. That helps a lot! The breast was the part I was
> wondering about cutting thru.
> Michele

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

8a. Fish Oils
Posted by: "rocketblasther" jforbes05@sbcglobal.net rocketblasther
Date: Sun Jul 1, 2007 12:54 pm ((PDT))

When supplementing with fish oils, is it okay to use "human grade"
fish oil? Rather than fish oil supplements that are labeled "animal
use only".

Jim & Sara

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________

8b. Re: Fish Oils
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Sun Jul 1, 2007 2:02 pm ((PDT))

> When supplementing with fish oils, is it okay to use "human grade"
> fish oil? Rather than fish oil supplements that are labeled "animal
> use only".

Of course. Just watch what kind of fish oil it is - don't want to be
supplementing with cod liver oil, just fish body oils.

Casey

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

9a. Just Started the Raw Diet...
Posted by: "tagurit182002" tagurit182002@yahoo.com tagurit182002
Date: Sun Jul 1, 2007 1:31 pm ((PDT))

MODERATORS NOTE:SIGN YOUR MAILS!!!!!

And one of my boys has seemed a little bit sickly since I started it
yesterday. His tummy seems a little tender..should I be alarmed? He
went potty and it looked fine..no blood or anything, but it's just
everytime you touch his tummy, it's a bit hard and it seems to bother
him a little bit. What to do?

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________

9b. Re: Just Started the Raw Diet...
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Sun Jul 1, 2007 2:03 pm ((PDT))

> And one of my boys has seemed a little bit sickly since I started it
> yesterday. His tummy seems a little tender..should I be alarmed? He
> went potty and it looked fine..no blood or anything, but it's just
> everytime you touch his tummy, it's a bit hard and it seems to bother
> him a little bit. What to do?

More details, please! What kind/size/age of dog? What did you feed? How
much did you feed? Anything else you can think to include...

Casey

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

10a. Howdy!
Posted by: "sazkeeper" sazkeeper@yahoo.com sazkeeper
Date: Sun Jul 1, 2007 1:41 pm ((PDT))

Hi! I just wanted to introduce myself and my "little" ones. My name
is Kameron, and I am very new to the raw feeding thing...I have two
GSD - Bodo and Bart, a very elderly cat and a pair of genets (mammal-
wise, at least.) I just switched the two dogs to raw...so far, so
good. Right now they are both eating chicken backs, a little yogurt
in the morning, fish oil, and nupro joint supplement. I'm not sure
about supplementation yet - but will probably continue the fish oil,
and maybe switch from nupro (lots of volume of powder) to missing
link plus - mainly for the glucosamine, as both are sport dogs. I
also intend to add more muscle and organ meat this week but wanted
to start off simple. Bodo, my 3yr old, made the switch no problem.
No diarrhea or anything. Lucky me! Bart is my new puppy - only 9
weeks old - but his breeder fed a modified raw diet, so he was
already somewhat used to it. It is definitely impressive to hear his
little teeth crunch through those backs! Ultimately the genets will
also go raw, but not too sure if I will switch Bullet, my cat, as he
is 17 yrs old and doesn't have too many teeth left. Any advice in
that area?

One thing I have already run into is the training treat thing, but I
see there is a file on the subject. I haven't read it all the way
through - does it have detailed cooking instructions for the liver?
I'm not worried about Bodo, as he is a glutton and will eat
anything, but Bart's food drive (which was demonstrated at the
breeder) seems to have gone away with the switch to all-raw. I guess
nothing is as good as the real thing, huh!

Anyway...just thought I would introduce myself. I hope I get a lot
from this resource!

Kameron

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________

10b. Re: Howdy!
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sun Jul 1, 2007 2:50 pm ((PDT))

Hi Kameron,

Great job on getting those boys switched to raw!!! :)

Just wanted to make a quick comment about the supplements you mentioned. I
would recommend supplementing with only the specific ingredients required by
your dogs. If you need glucosamine, get a good glucosamine/chondroitin
product rather than one which includes everything but the kitchen sink, some
potentially harmful, most not beneficial and only serve to water down the
one or two ingredients you are needing. Both of those products have
absolutely horrible <g> ingredients and not enough glucosamine to make a bit
of difference.

For instance, Nupro contains far too much Vitamin D and various other
minerals including calcium....I definitely would not use this on a growing
puppy!

Actually there are many good sources of natural glucosamine in raw food so
you may not need to supplement at all.

Oh, and training treats, how to dry liver, etc. is discussed on Rawchat
frequently. Go on over there and do an archive search. Lots of great
info!!

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "sazkeeper" <sazkeeper@yahoo.com>

I just switched the two dogs to raw...so far, so
good. Right now they are both eating chicken backs, a little yogurt
in the morning, fish oil, and nupro joint supplement. I'm not sure
about supplementation yet - but will probably continue the fish oil,
and maybe switch from nupro (lots of volume of powder) to missing
link plus - mainly for the glucosamine, as both are sport dogs. I
also intend to add more muscle and organ meat this week but wanted
to start off simple. Bodo, my 3yr old, made the switch no problem.
No diarrhea or anything. Lucky me! Bart is my new puppy - only 9
weeks old - but his breeder fed a modified raw diet, so he was
already somewhat used to it. It is definitely impressive to hear his
little teeth crunch through those backs!

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

11a. Abbreviations
Posted by: "Linda Edgington" lindagail849@yahoo.com lindagail849
Date: Sun Jul 1, 2007 2:19 pm ((PDT))

I notice a lot of you use abbre. Is there a list some where? I don't have a clue what you are talking about.

Linda

---------------------------------
Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows.
Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

12a. Re: Very sick puppy
Posted by: "chamelett2003" chamelett2003@yahoo.com chamelett2003
Date: Sun Jul 1, 2007 2:19 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "tottime47" <tottime@...> wrote:
Oh, I never thought of cooked food being harder to digest. I am so
afraid of giving her raw with all the bacteria on it. I am afraid she
can not handle it like the other dogs for some reason. I am thawing
out a chicken as you decribed for us to eat for dinner. I will try to
find the slippery elm and save some chicken for her. Her enery is
still back today. She is not hiding in her crate. wants to come out,
run around and be with us today.
Thanks,
Jill
>> I would start putting a little slippery elm on the small pieces of
> chicken and feeding every few hours as you are doing now..........
>
> Cooked foods of any kind are harder for a dog to digest and
> especially sick ones.
>
> Chicken is the easiest to digest..
>
> Keep in mind any kind of antibotic is really hard on their
> stomch too......
>
> Let us know how it's going........
>
> Carol & Charkee
>
>
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "chamelett2003"
> <chamelett2003@> wrote:
>
> I cooked some chicken as she still
> > refused to eat the baby food. She wanted more and more chicken
but
> I
> > would only give her a small piece about every hour for the next
> four
> > hours. Her stools got more contisantcy to them to the point of
> being
> > just mushy. Now today Saturday she ate some more cooked chicken
but
> > this afternoon She is squirting green liquid again. DARN.
> > Jill
> >
>

Messages in this topic (15)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

13a. Re: The hurls
Posted by: "mob1043" ynotbeastar@marykay.com mob1043
Date: Sun Jul 1, 2007 2:49 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "tottime47" <tottime@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Michele,
>
> What is in what he's throwing up? Pieces of bone or complete meals?
>
> Gizzards are considered a low value muscle meat from what I have read \
> so far.
>
> I wouldn't introduce organs until you figure out the hurling part.....
>
> Carol & Charkee
>
>
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "mob1043" <ynotbeastar@> wrote:
> >
> > It seems my Great Pyrenees, is tossing up his food. I feed him about
> 2
> > 1/2 lbs per day once am & once pm. I am giving chicken for the
> week.
> > I have been giving only 10% organ (gizzards) along with drumsticks or
> > breast to make up his meal.
>
> > Thank you,
> > Michele
>

Hi C & C

It looks like bits of bone and organ, but it sure smells! The turkey vultures that fly above
our house love it!

Michele

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

14. Need Help. PLEASE
Posted by: "Kathy McCusker" kmccusker72@hotmail.com kathym14456
Date: Sun Jul 1, 2007 2:58 pm ((PDT))

Hi, I just fed Jagger his supper. He ate 3 chicken thighs and 1
breast. He ate it with gusto and then went outside and threw it all
up. It didn't look like he chewed any of it. Now he is looking for
more to eat. Is this normal or am I doing something wrong. If he is
hungry should I feed him again?Kathy

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/

<*> Your email settings:
Digest Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/join

(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:

http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

------------------------------------------------------------------------

[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11748

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Feeding a whole turkey to a small dog
From: chele519
1b. Re: Feeding a whole turkey to a small dog
From: Giselle

2.1. Re: itchy dog
From: Patrice Quinn
2.2. Re: itchy dog
From: Laurie
2.3. ADMIN/Re: itchy dog
From: costrowski75

3a. Re: This is funny! Freecycle reply
From: Patrice Quinn

4a. Re: different cuts of ribs - and lamb/goat cuts
From: costrowski75
4b. Re: different cuts of ribs - and lamb/goat cuts
From: costrowski75
4c. Re: different cuts of ribs - and lamb/goat cuts
From: Bearhair
4d. Re: different cuts of ribs - and lamb/goat cuts
From: costrowski75

5a. chicken tumors :(
From: jrjjlew
5b. Re: chicken tumors :(
From: Bearhair

6. Suppliers In Colorado
From: Jenna Mahoney

7a. Re: Just starting out
From: Yasuko herron
7b. Re: Just starting out
From: Bumble1994@aol.com

8a. Re: Very sick puppy
From: chamelett2003
8b. Re: Very sick puppy
From: tottime47

9a. overweight dog
From: mrsdog_lover
9b. Re: overweight dog
From: Elizabeth

10a. .........Re: Ok, no more talk about bloat, how about Mountain Oyster
From: tottime47
10b. .........Re: Ok, no more talk about bloat, how about Mountain Oyster
From: costrowski75

11a. Re: The hurls
From: tottime47

12. Our 2nd week on raw. Refusing turkey please help
From: Shireen

13. What is too small of a bone for a large puppy
From: Kathy McCusker

14a. Re: Diarrhea in Newbie Great Dane.
From: Katie Baker

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Re: Feeding a whole turkey to a small dog
Posted by: "chele519" chele519@yahoo.com chele519
Date: Sun Jul 1, 2007 6:56 am ((PDT))

Thanks. That's what I'm going to try. Just not sure how easily I can
cut thru those bones. I got a 2nd turkey last year from someone else
so once the first one if thawed and repackaged, I'll do the same with
the next one.
Michele

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "sd.little" <sd.little@...> wrote:
>
> Michele,
> I would chop the turkey up into chunks, package each one
individually
> and then re-freeze them to use at a later date.
>
> Cheers, Debra
>

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________

1b. Re: Feeding a whole turkey to a small dog
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sun Jul 1, 2007 9:34 am ((PDT))

Hi, Michele!
Its *much* easier to cut through at the joints. Bend a leg or wing
joint as far as it will go in the opposite direction it goes easily,
then cut into the center of the joint where the gristle is weakest and
cut through. Use heavy kitchen shears to cut through the center of the
breast on one side of the keel. Then pull each breast half away from
the back and cut through the easier rib bones until its separate from
the back. A serrated knife or the kitchen shears will cut up the
breast into smaller pieces pretty easily. You can bend the back in
half by holding it down on the cutting board with the skin side up and
breaking it in half.
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> Thanks. That's what I'm going to try. Just not sure how easily I can
> cut thru those bones. I got a 2nd turkey last year from someone else
> so once the first one if thawed and repackaged, I'll do the same with
> the next one.
> Michele

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

2.1. Re: itchy dog
Posted by: "Patrice Quinn" patrice@patricequinn.com patrice_quinn
Date: Sun Jul 1, 2007 6:57 am ((PDT))

Laurie, Please forgive if someone else has already answered this for you but
your problem sounds similar to mine and I believe I have found a solution.
I did a LOT of Internet research on my own after spending about $1,000 in
vet bills with no diagnosis, all the while he's giving our dachsie
antibiotics, steroids, etc. And she is getting more and more itchy all over
her body, then her skin started turning black, etc. I found a site www
nzymes.com which described a number of dogs with similar symptoms and
experiences as ours. It (and other sites I found) explained that the
problem is systemic yeast infection and the cause is basically commercial
dog foods, antibiotics, steroids, etc. Three days ago, I purchased a "yeast
kit" for $110. It arrived in one day and I started her immediately (some of
it is oral, some topical). Within a day of starting the topical solution on
her, Sophie's itching seems to have calmed down some. So, here's hoping this
is the answer to her year-long misery.

I also just started our three dogs on raw just a few days ago. They've
never eaten anthing raw in their 10, 12 and 14 year lives and they didn't
even sniff twice before chomping down their first meal! I was so shocked.
They took to it like a duck to water and so far, no negative reactions,
perhaps because we took them all off commercial six months ago and I have
been cooking up a concoction of meat, rice and veggies--what a hassle!
Feeding them raw just makes so much sense to me even though our vet
discouraged it.

I hope this will be helpful in some way. Good luck with your PWD. Let me
know how it goes! Patrice

-------Original Message-------

From: Laurie
Date: 6/29/2007 7:03:24 AM
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [rawfeeding] itchy dog

My Portguese water dog has been on raw feeding for two months and has
no improvement with her itchy skin. I'm at my wits end trying to
figure out how to get her comfortable. She's been through ALL the
treatments the vet had to offer (allergy shots, shampoos, steroids,
antihistimines, etc) and I thought the raw diet would be the answer.
Does anyone have any experience they can share with me? If it matters,
her allergy tests showed she is allergic to grass, mold, sycamores,
ants, fleas. Obviously, keeping her indoors for the rest of her life
is not an option!

Thanks for any help.

Laurie

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (33)
________________________________________________________________________

2.2. Re: itchy dog
Posted by: "Laurie" lhsearch1@verizon.net lauriescritters
Date: Sun Jul 1, 2007 7:41 am ((PDT))

Hi Patrice,

Thank you so much for your response. Please tell me more about this
yeast kit. Where can I buy it? Who makes it? I live in NJ. Thanks
again!!

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Patrice Quinn" <patrice@...>
wrote:
>
> Laurie, Please forgive if someone else has already answered this
for you but
> your problem sounds similar to mine and I believe I have found a
solution.
> I did a LOT of Internet research on my own after spending about
$1,000 in
> vet bills with no diagnosis, all the while he's giving our dachsie
> antibiotics, steroids, etc. And she is getting more and more itchy
all over
> her body, then her skin started turning black, etc. I found a site
www
> nzymes.com which described a number of dogs with similar symptoms
and
> experiences as ours. It (and other sites I found) explained that
the
> problem is systemic yeast infection and the cause is basically
commercial
> dog foods, antibiotics, steroids, etc. Three days ago, I purchased
a "yeast
> kit" for $110. It arrived in one day and I started her immediately
(some of
> it is oral, some topical). Within a day of starting the topical
solution on
> her, Sophie's itching seems to have calmed down some. So, here's
hoping this
> is the answer to her year-long misery.
>
> I also just started our three dogs on raw just a few days ago.
They've
> never eaten anthing raw in their 10, 12 and 14 year lives and they
didn't
> even sniff twice before chomping down their first meal! I was so
shocked.
> They took to it like a duck to water and so far, no negative
reactions,
> perhaps because we took them all off commercial six months ago and
I have
> been cooking up a concoction of meat, rice and veggies--what a
hassle!
> Feeding them raw just makes so much sense to me even though our vet
> discouraged it.
>
> I hope this will be helpful in some way. Good luck with your PWD.
Let me
> know how it goes! Patrice
>
> -------Original Message-------
>
> From: Laurie
> Date: 6/29/2007 7:03:24 AM
> To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [rawfeeding] itchy dog
>
> My Portguese water dog has been on raw feeding for two months and
has
> no improvement with her itchy skin. I'm at my wits end trying to
> figure out how to get her comfortable. She's been through ALL the
> treatments the vet had to offer (allergy shots, shampoos, steroids,
> antihistimines, etc) and I thought the raw diet would be the
answer.
> Does anyone have any experience they can share with me? If it
matters,
> her allergy tests showed she is allergic to grass, mold, sycamores,
> ants, fleas. Obviously, keeping her indoors for the rest of her
life
> is not an option!
>
> Thanks for any help.
>
> Laurie
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Messages in this topic (33)
________________________________________________________________________

2.3. ADMIN/Re: itchy dog
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Jul 1, 2007 8:16 am ((PDT))

If this thread is going to go medicine instead of nutrition, it should
move promptly to RawChat or DogHealth or a variety of alternate
medicine lists or go private.

Thank you.
Chris O
Moderation Team

Messages in this topic (33)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

3a. Re: This is funny! Freecycle reply
Posted by: "Patrice Quinn" patrice@patricequinn.com patrice_quinn
Date: Sun Jul 1, 2007 6:57 am ((PDT))

Thanks for that laugh, Michele. My savage carnivores are doing the same as
yours, only with better breath than they've ever had before and no further
need for teeth cleanings under anesthesia, yea! Patrice "dachsiegirl" Quinn

-------Original Message-------

From: chele519
Date: 6/29/2007 7:39:04 AM
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [rawfeeding] Re: This is funny! Freecycle reply

That's why I had to post it. I got it right before bed and I went in
and the savages were sprawled out on the bed with the AC blowing on them.
Michele

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Nathalie Poulin
<poulin_nathalie@...> wrote:
>
> That is the funniest thing EVER!!!
> HOLY UNINFORMED!!!
> That's fine, they can have a kibble-fed dog and pay
> for all the teeth cleaning and vet bills!
>
> Nathalie

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

4a. Re: different cuts of ribs - and lamb/goat cuts
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Jul 1, 2007 8:05 am ((PDT))

Bearhair <bearhair@...> wrote:
> Note that this site is in Australia and some cuts may not be allowed
in the
> US by the USDA.
*****
Much of the lamb and most of the goat available retail or through meat
wholesalers in the US comes from Australia or NZ. I'd be surprised if
the 6-cut goat isn't shipped that way from Australia.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________

4b. Re: different cuts of ribs - and lamb/goat cuts
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Jul 1, 2007 8:11 am ((PDT))

"Chrissy" <hylesrayburn@...> wrote:
What is a 6 way cut?
*****
Not 6-way, 6-cut.

Typically it's a dressed carcass (no head, no legs below the knee or
hock) that's been cut behind the front legs, then again in front of the
back legs, and split down the spine, producing six pieces of goat.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________

4c. Re: different cuts of ribs - and lamb/goat cuts
Posted by: "Bearhair" bearhair@spamcop.net bearhair61
Date: Sun Jul 1, 2007 9:25 am ((PDT))

Chris O wrote:

>Much of the lamb and most of the goat available retail or through meat
>wholesalers in the US comes from Australia or NZ. I'd be surprised if
>the 6-cut goat isn't shipped that way from Australia.

The site includes brain, lung, and raw unscalded tripe for both goat and
sheep, so I'm pretty sure someone is excluding those along the way.

Lora
Evanston, IL

Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________

4d. Re: different cuts of ribs - and lamb/goat cuts
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Jul 1, 2007 9:32 am ((PDT))

Bearhair <bearhair@...> wrote:
>> The site includes brain, lung, and raw unscalded tripe for both goat
and
> sheep, so I'm pretty sure someone is excluding those along the way.
*****
No doubt.
It's not the US end of the pipeline doing the excluding though, I don't
think. At least not the pipeline that delivers the product called six-
cut goat.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

5a. chicken tumors :(
Posted by: "jrjjlew" jnrw@truevine.net jrjjlew
Date: Sun Jul 1, 2007 9:18 am ((PDT))

Ok, this is really disgusting but I have to ask. New to raw feeding
this year, I have been trying to get used to feeding my dog well on
whole prey. I have recently found huge tumors in at least two hens of
four culled from an older home raised laying flock. YUK! How common is
this?? Does anybody know? I am totally ready to go vegetarian myself,
at this point, but for my dog this is not an option. How can I know
that what he eats is pure and healthy and good for him? I thought home
raised would be a healthy alternative to grocery store meat. Am I wrong?
Is the meat ok? I threw it out. It makes me sick to think of it.
~robin

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________

5b. Re: chicken tumors :(
Posted by: "Bearhair" bearhair@spamcop.net bearhair61
Date: Sun Jul 1, 2007 10:45 am ((PDT))

robin wrote:

> . . . I have recently found huge tumors in at least two hens of
>four culled from an older home raised laying flock. YUK! How common is
>this?? Does anybody know? I am totally ready to go vegetarian myself,
>at this point, but for my dog this is not an option. How can I know
>that what he eats is pure and healthy and good for him? I thought home
>raised would be a healthy alternative to grocery store meat. Am I wrong?
>Is the meat ok? I threw it out. It makes me sick to think of it.

In the USDA Entry Training Manual for a Public Health Veterinarian: Animal
Disposition/Food Safety: Post-mortem Inspection Chapter, page 17 covers
leukotic tumors and page 19 covers other tumors. Evidence of a leukotic tumor
results in the condemnation of the entire carcass, which evidence of a
non-leukotic tumor results in: one tumor - trim and pass; two or more tumors
- condemn.
>http://www.fsis.usda.gov/PDF/PHVg-Post-mortem_Inspection.pdf

Tumors in older animals may or may not indicate a larger gross disease. It
depends on whether (a) it is due to the a leukotic virus and (b) whether it
has metastasized. You'll never know whether the grocery store chicken you buy
has had a single localized tumor trimmed prior to packaging.

Lora
Evanston, IL

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

6. Suppliers In Colorado
Posted by: "Jenna Mahoney" hav.lover@yahoo.com hav.lover
Date: Sun Jul 1, 2007 9:19 am ((PDT))

Does any one in the Denver area have a good place to buy meats, bones
and organs?
Jenna

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

7a. Re: Just starting out
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sun Jul 1, 2007 9:26 am ((PDT))

>Just really found out this am that Jagger is not fond of meat without bones in it.

Did you try warming up the meat in zipbag by soaking in warm water? I hear that warm temperature brings more smell of the meat and intice the dog to eat food.

Did you try partially sear the meat?You could less searing as time goes by but I read a lot in this list many people succeeded doing so.

He may need adjusting time maybe but over the time,he would adjust well i think. It is just a texture thing and smell dog may not getting used to. Give him some time and he will do fine.

> Stuck his nose up to fish fillets.

You could try the same for fish too like meat; soak in warm water to bring temperature up and if that did not work,you could try feeding canned fish;canned salmon,canned mackerral,canned sardine,you need to pour the juice out from can and has to be fish in water,not in oil.Those cans have bone in too and not hard bones soyou do not have to worry about bones and most dog likes mackerral etc in can. It is also convenient when you forgot to thaw meat.Or, keep offering same fish until he eats it,no snack not nothing till next meal.That works for meat too,I hear.

>Not sure exactly about ribs. they scare me,
I have fed Beef short Rib,Beef neckbones so far other than poultry. My dog is Corgi 30lb and,she spend about 90 minutes but she consumed all. Oh,and I got goat neckbones the other day and when I was bagging,I gave her sample to her and she ate all bones and meat too.So,I assume she can consume goat bone as well.

When I write like this,it looks like I am feeding bone a lot but not so much,I give her meaty meal too. Only bones I avoid is leg bones.

I was scare to feed bone too when I first started even chicken breast with rib,but,I am feeling comfortable now.If she could not consume bone,she leave the bone and walk out so,I just let her and supervise her all time. When I gave her Beef Rib for the first time,she walked away from bone after some try but second time I fed her,she was more motivated to try and it took 90 min and was looong meal time but she ate all. It may depends on indivisual dog whether or not dog consume bone or not but you could try feeding bone and make sure you supervise and if you felt so uncomfortable,you could get the bone away from dog I think.
Let him try and see how he does.

And,do not try feed the meat holding meat to him.If you do so,you may end up holding all meal you give to him. Let him figure out how to tackle the meal.

Good luck.

yassy

---------------------------------
Got a little couch potato?
Check out fun summer activities for kids.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (17)
________________________________________________________________________

7b. Re: Just starting out
Posted by: "Bumble1994@aol.com" Bumble1994@aol.com bumble1994
Date: Sun Jul 1, 2007 10:45 am ((PDT))

In a message dated 7/1/2007 8:53:03 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com writes:

Just really found out this am that Jagger is not fond of meat
without bones in it. He will eat chicken thighs and breats as long
as they have skin and bones. He will eat steak without bones, go
figure. Stuck his nose up to fish fillets. Not sure exactly about
ribs. They scare me, more bone than meat and some have small bones.
Haven't tried other meats yet. Also he won't always take the meat
out of the dish himself, he waits for me to hand it to him.

****
I don't have dogs (have cats) but it sounds to me like Jagger is due for a
fast until he is hungry enough he really wants whatever you offer and however
you offer it.

When my cats were first starting on raw, two went on into eating two-oz.
chunks of chicken in just a few days but the third one for several meals managed
me nicely into holding her piece for her while she figured out just how to
chew on it. She will STILL try for that, picking her meat up and walking
around, wailing for help--but when I ignore her, she sits down, cocks her head,
and puts her back teeth to the meat just fine.

Whenever I feed something bony like a chicken wing or piece of neck, I add
some meat to it--and all three cats always grab the bony piece first.

Lynda

************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (17)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

8a. Re: Very sick puppy
Posted by: "chamelett2003" chamelett2003@yahoo.com chamelett2003
Date: Sun Jul 1, 2007 9:58 am ((PDT))

-Thank you Giselle,
I will try almost any thing to get her well. I was wondering if the lab
is just not finding the parasite if she has one. The vet is treating it
more like a virus that has now gone on to long and could or he says
will become a bacterial infection.
I realise Antibiotics can cause more GI up set and diarrhea. What is
one to do?
I found out the hard way that Chihuahua's are at great risk for
hypoglycemia when they get sick. I supose like a human baby because of
their size hypoglycemia and dehydration can come on fast. It is also
difficult to dose anything as she weighs less than 5lbs. At least her
appetite is back now. That is a major improvement. Will look for SEBP.
Thanks,
Jill

In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Giselle" <megan.giselle@...> wrote:
>
> Hi, Jill!
> It sounds like she has had some sort of parasite or infection that the
> vet isn't finding. Sometimes, even after the initial catalyzing factor
> is gone, once a dog's digestive system is irritated, it can stay that
> way until the cycle is interrupted.
>

Messages in this topic (14)
________________________________________________________________________

8b. Re: Very sick puppy
Posted by: "tottime47" tottime@aol.com tottime47
Date: Sun Jul 1, 2007 10:50 am ((PDT))

Hi Jill,

Boy, she's been through a lot.........

Bea's advice is the best.......Get that slippery elm bark (health
food stores carry it) and cut out the cooked foods.
Get a good chicken, not enhanced with anything......check the label.
You usually have to get one at a butcher shop.

I would start putting a little slippery elm on the small pieces of
chicken and feeding every few hours as you are doing now..........

Cooked foods of any kind are harder for a dog to digest and
especially sick ones.

Chicken is the easiest to digest..

Keep in mind any kind of antibotic is really hard on their
stomch too......

Let us know how it's going........

Carol & Charkee

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "chamelett2003"
<chamelett2003@...> wrote:

I cooked some chicken as she still
> refused to eat the baby food. She wanted more and more chicken but
I
> would only give her a small piece about every hour for the next
four
> hours. Her stools got more contisantcy to them to the point of
being
> just mushy. Now today Saturday she ate some more cooked chicken but
> this afternoon She is squirting green liquid again. DARN.
> Jill
>

Messages in this topic (14)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

9a. overweight dog
Posted by: "mrsdog_lover" mrsdog_lover@yahoo.com mrsdog_lover
Date: Sun Jul 1, 2007 10:04 am ((PDT))

I have found an abbandoned overweight female mongrel that is so sweet.
I have just started her on rawfeeding and she is so happy now. It's
just 1 week now, but I'm asking myself If I am giving her the righi
quantity to return her in shape and health. How do I calculate the
amount of bone/meat to give her if I don't know what she should weight.
She now weights; to my horror,15kg!! She's a medium dog, like a cocker
spaniel i suppose. Maybe her ideal weight should be 10kg??
Thankyou so much...
Marisa.

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________

9b. Re: overweight dog
Posted by: "Elizabeth" rainsou1@yahoo.com rainsou1
Date: Sun Jul 1, 2007 10:45 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "mrsdog_lover" <mrsdog_lover@...>
wrote:
>
> I have found an abbandoned overweight female mongrel that is so sweet.
> I have just started her on rawfeeding and she is so happy now. It's
> just 1 week now, but I'm asking myself If I am giving her the righi
> quantity to return her in shape and health. How do I calculate the
> amount of bone/meat to give her if I don't know what she should weight.
> She now weights; to my horror,15kg!! She's a medium dog, like a cocker
> spaniel i suppose. Maybe her ideal weight should be 10kg??
> Thankyou so much...
> Marisa.
>
Marisa,
Try feeding the amount of food appropriate for the weight you want her
to be. If you want her to weigh 10kgs try feeding the amount necessary
for that weight. Or, feed 1.5% of your dog's current body weight.
-Liz

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

10a. .........Re: Ok, no more talk about bloat, how about Mountain Oyster
Posted by: "tottime47" tottime@aol.com tottime47
Date: Sun Jul 1, 2007 10:45 am ((PDT))

Hi Chris O,

Hey, I can understand why people here are not into raw feeding, lol..
Middle of the Midwest and the meat prices are out of sight......
Cheapest scores I've found so far are whole chickens for 1.29 lb in bulk
and Beef heart for 99 cents a lb.

Free Range Buffalo for $3.69 sounds very good to me.....

I'm just thankful I have a small dog, lol, don't know that a big
one wouldn't eat me out of house & home... :)

Got some goat & lamb ordered, if it ever arrives.......

Carol & Charkee

yahoogroups.com, "costrowski75" <Chriso75@...> wrote:

> *****
> Holy smackdown.
> Is it possible that buffalo meat is worth 22 bucks a pound? I'll bet
> you could get venison for less than that--not to mention some very
nice
> goat and lamb.
>
> Wowsa!
> Chris O
>

Messages in this topic (22)
________________________________________________________________________

10b. .........Re: Ok, no more talk about bloat, how about Mountain Oyster
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Jul 1, 2007 11:05 am ((PDT))

"tottime47" <tottime@...> wrote:
>>
> Hey, I can understand why people here are not into raw feeding,
lol..
> Middle of the Midwest and the meat prices are out of sight......
> Cheapest scores I've found so far are whole chickens for 1.29 lb in
bulk
> and Beef heart for 99 cents a lb.
*****
Here in Saccatomatoes, whole chickens are 1.59/lb regular price and
somewhat under a dollar/pound on sale (used to be .59/lb on sale was
normal, now .79/pound on sale is a deal). Bulk chickens from a
wholesaler maybe a buck a pound; from a supermarket, no break on
price.

Best price on beef heart is .95/lb and that's bulk; from a grocer
it's more like 1.50/lb. Standard feedlot beef, nothing special.

The bargains I get here in northern California are through group
buys, nagging the wholesaler incessantly, and just plain being in the
right place at the right time. I daresay circumstances are the same
throughout the country.

> Free Range Buffalo for $3.69 sounds very good to me.....
*****
It sounds great for free range buffalo and heckuva lot more
realisitic than 22 freakin' dollars a pound(!), but I won't pay
$3.69/lb for dog meat. Since for less than that I can get whole
processed goat or lamb, there's no choice for me: go with whole foods
when possible.

> > I'm just thankful I have a small dog, lol, don't know that a big
> one wouldn't eat me out of house & home... :)
*****
I manage to get by feeding four dogs and a cat, they don't eat
brilliantly but they eat well. It's not what you buy, it's how you
buy.

There are people on this list who pay less than I do to feed more
dogs than I have. If there is no limit to ones' creativity, energy
and fortitude, there is no limit to what one can feed.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (22)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

11a. Re: The hurls
Posted by: "tottime47" tottime@aol.com tottime47
Date: Sun Jul 1, 2007 10:45 am ((PDT))

Hi Michele,

What is in what he's throwing up? Pieces of bone or complete meals?

Gizzards are considered a low value muscle meat from what I have read \
so far.

I wouldn't introduce organs until you figure out the hurling part.....

Carol & Charkee

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "mob1043" <ynotbeastar@...> wrote:
>
> It seems my Great Pyrenees, is tossing up his food. I feed him about
2
> 1/2 lbs per day once am & once pm. I am giving chicken for the
week.
> I have been giving only 10% organ (gizzards) along with drumsticks or
> breast to make up his meal.

> Thank you,
> Michele

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

12. Our 2nd week on raw. Refusing turkey please help
Posted by: "Shireen" quiltsnmosaics@yahoo.com quiltsnmosaics
Date: Sun Jul 1, 2007 11:45 am ((PDT))

Shireen

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

13. What is too small of a bone for a large puppy
Posted by: "Kathy McCusker" kmccusker72@hotmail.com kathym14456
Date: Sun Jul 1, 2007 12:21 pm ((PDT))

I just picked up a veal breast and beef ribs with extra meat. Are the
bones in these meats too small for him? What size is considered too
small or too big for a 8 month old mastiff? Kathy

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

14a. Re: Diarrhea in Newbie Great Dane.
Posted by: "Katie Baker" declansmama@gmail.com katherinebaker2
Date: Sun Jul 1, 2007 12:21 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Nathalie Poulin
<poulin_nathalie@...> wrote:
>
> Also, (in my opinion) it's completely unfair for your
> mother to come over and feed her kibble when that's
> obviously not what you're feeding her. It's hard
> enough to deal with a major food change, but to have
> your mother feed her kibble right when you're changing
> her over is not good for anyone, especially the dog.

Just to clarify, she didn't feed the dog out of spite. She showed up
while we were at work and cleaned and refilled the dogs water and
kibble because she hadn't been told specifically not to. Her animals
have those feeders that have food always available. We have talked
to her about it, and while she doesn't agree, she's agreed to not
interfere. And there's no kibble to feed. :-)

We'll continue on with the chicken and see how Fable does. I forgot
to mention she's not house trained, so the diarrhea is a real
problem and it's just not fair to expect someone with the runs to
hold it. Potty training seems to be clicking for her though. We;ll
keep you guys updated.

Thanks for all your help!
-Katie and Fable

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/

<*> Your email settings:
Digest Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/join

(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:

http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

------------------------------------------------------------------------