Feed Pets Raw Food

Saturday, August 11, 2007

[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11900

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Goat Meat?
From: Laurie Swanson
1b. Re: Goat Meat?
From: costrowski75
1c. Re: Goat Meat?
From: briargarden07

2a. Re: Alternative Tx for allergies?
From: darkstardog
2b. Re: Alternative Tx for allergies?
From: Laurie
2c. Re: Alternative Tx for allergies?
From: carnesbill

3a. Re: Pig Feet and glucosamine
From: delcaste
3b. Re: Pig Feet and glucosamine
From: delcaste
3c. Re: Pig Feet and glucosamine
From: costrowski75

4a. Re: Any dogs 10+ years on raw?
From: Joanne Thompson

5. dogs on and off of food
From: redwinejoy

6a. Lamb meat
From: Alison Maffett
6b. Re: Lamb meat
From: costrowski75
6c. Re: Lamb meat
From: Alison Maffett
6d. Re: Lamb meat
From: costrowski75

7a. Re: Question about RAW feedings
From: costrowski75
7b. Re: Question about RAW feedings
From: Brandi Bryant
7c. Re: Question about RAW feedings
From: betty hinson
7d. Re: Question about RAW feedings
From: linoleum5017

8. Raw and puppies
From: Alisha

9a. Re: raw and kibble mix
From: Evie

10a. Re: Anyone add vinegar to their dogs drinking water
From: mrtrans1121

11a. Processing Tripe
From: doguenanny
11b. Re: Processing Tripe
From: Penny

12a. Re: Rawfeeding Recipes
From: Patty Phaneuf


Messages
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1a. Re: Goat Meat?
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 2:54 pm ((PDT))

Hi Noelle,

Goat is great, isn't it?! If you tell us what area you live in, maybe
someone can suggest a specific source or some tips on finding
better/better-cut goat. I live in Seattle and can get big, bone-in
hunks (like 5 lb. legs, or chunks of shoulder w/ribs, etc.) at some of
the Asian markets and also at a local Middle Eastern grocery. It's
more than .99/lb. here, though--more like 2.69/lb. at the cheapest one,
3.29 at another, and 4.99 at the Middle Eastern one. There is one
market I know of that cuts the goat into those little chunks--not safe
to feed most dogs. I haven't seen it boneless, but haven't really been
looking; I'd want the bones intact, if the pieces aren't cut so small
like what you're talking about. You might check to see if there are
any local farmers near you or see if you have a butcher or meat dept.
that will special order for you. I've heard of a 6-way cut goat being
available by the box. Also look into whether there's a buying co-op
near you and see if they order goat or know any sources. There's also
the Carnivore Feed Supplier Yahoo group--check on there to see what you
find. Oh, I just remembered I found some online sources for goat, but
they were pretty pricey. If you're interested, let me know and I'll
dig them out and send you the links.

Good luck,

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "briargarden07" <briargarden07@...>
wrote:
I was wondering if there are
> other ways to purchase the goat meat besides those cubes with the
> small, hard bones (they remind me of thin beef rib bones)? OR do
> they only come cubed now? I've been cutting out those small bones
> and jsut giving them the meat mixed in with an egg and some
> scraps ... too much work, lol ;)


Messages in this topic (4)
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1b. Re: Goat Meat?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 5:43 pm ((PDT))

"briargarden07" <briargarden07@...> wrote:
I was wondering if there are
> other ways to purchase the goat meat besides those cubes with the
> small, hard bones (they remind me of thin beef rib bones)?
*****
My dogs do very well on goat (even my cat eats its well) but with
rare expeception I must buy it 6-cut from a meat wholesaler. These
are from Australia and last I checked were approaching the $2.00/lb
mark.

The cut-up goat I can get in Latino markets is bony and stingy, as
you describe, and not at all cheap. I will feed the larger hunks
(and "larger" is relative; for that matter, so is "hunks") to my cat
but I will not feed the bony knobs to my dogs.


I've been cutting out those small bones
> and jsut giving them the meat mixed in with an egg and some
> scraps ... too much work, lol ;)
*****
Too much work but whole lots safer. How about researching local "buy
direct" opportunities?
Chris O

Messages in this topic (4)
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1c. Re: Goat Meat?
Posted by: "briargarden07" briargarden07@yahoo.com briargarden07
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 7:09 pm ((PDT))


> My dogs do very well on goat (even my cat eats its well) but with
> rare expeception I must buy it 6-cut from a meat wholesaler.
These
> are from Australia and last I checked were approaching the
$2.00/lb
> mark.
>
> The cut-up goat I can get in Latino markets is bony and stingy, as
> you describe, and not at all cheap. I will feed the larger hunks
> (and "larger" is relative; for that matter, so is "hunks") to my
cat
> but I will not feed the bony knobs to my dogs.


Thanks for the replies! I'm in southern NY, btw :)
Hmmm, this new cubed goat meat was from a primarily Latino market as
well, and was $1.99 lb. I wonder if ther is a differnece within the
ethnic markets, because the one we used to go to was middle Eastern.
I will have to look into other sources. It was so logn that I
fed goat meat I forgot all about it, but it defintiely IS a
wonderful type of meat.

Noelle

>


Messages in this topic (4)
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2a. Re: Alternative Tx for allergies?
Posted by: "darkstardog" darkstardog@charter.net darkstardog
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 3:09 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Laurie" <lnhoffman57@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Everyone:
>
> I took my PWD who has skin allergies to a Alternative Vet today and
she> did muscle testing on her and the results showed that my dog is
> allergic to Vit. A, Calcium, and pollen. I'm not surprised by the
> pollen ...Anyway, the Vet gave me Homaccord solutions, one
> for the Vit A/Calcium, and one for the pollen. She told me to hold the
> bottle against the dog, tap down her spine at least 6 times, continue
> holding the bottle against her body for 5 minutes, then give her a few
> drops of the stuff orally. I'm all for alternative/herbal/holistic
> health care, for both my animals and people, but has anyone had any
> experience with this? Seems a bit nuts to me. Thanks in advance for
> your help!!
>

From what I've read about muscle testing, also called Applied
Kinesiology, and its variations involving electrical meters and/or
computers, it is completely without basis. The diagnosis and the vet's
treatment sound nuts to me. How could it be reasonable for a dog to be
allergic to calcium? I'd say it's nuts.
An alternative vet with good background knowledge about nutrition and
about your dog might still give useful advice about diet and the dog
might improve, or the dog might improve on its own. So it is possible
that people might report improvements following this kind of
treatment. But the improvements would not be because of tapping a
bottle on the dog's spine etc, in my strong opinion.

Marty

Messages in this topic (4)
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2b. Re: Alternative Tx for allergies?
Posted by: "Laurie" lnhoffman57@aol.com lauriescritters
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 5:32 pm ((PDT))

> allergic to calcium? I'd say it's nuts.
> An alternative vet with good background knowledge about nutrition and
> about your dog might still give useful advice about diet and the dog
> might improve, or the dog might improve on its own. So it is possible
> that people might report improvements following this kind of
> treatment. But the improvements would not be because of tapping a
> bottle on the dog's spine etc, in my strong opinion.
>
> Marty
>
Thanks Marty,

I appreciate your feedback; helps me get my bearings and realize I'm
not crazy, though sometimes it feels that way! thanks again for your
reply.

Laurie & Storm


Messages in this topic (4)
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2c. Re: Alternative Tx for allergies?
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 9:33 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Laurie" <lnhoffman57@...> wrote:
>
> Anyway, the Vet gave me Homaccord solutions, one
> for the Vit A/Calcium, and one for the pollen. She told me to
> hold the
> bottle against the dog, tap down her spine at least 6 times,
continue
> holding the bottle against her body for 5 minutes, then give her
> a few
> drops of the stuff orally.


You just found yourself a certified whacko. :) :) :)


Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale


Messages in this topic (4)
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3a. Re: Pig Feet and glucosamine
Posted by: "delcaste" delcaste@yahoo.com delcaste
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 3:35 pm ((PDT))


> Silvina,
>
> yep.. anything with lots of cartilage is a good source of glucosamine
and
> condroitin..
>
> i think pound for pound chicken feet might be better, but it takes
lots fewer
> pigs feet to make a pound..
>
> Catherine R.


They do like their chicken feet good to hear they're good for them,
too :)

Silvina

Messages in this topic (20)
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3b. Re: Pig Feet and glucosamine
Posted by: "delcaste" delcaste@yahoo.com delcaste
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 3:36 pm ((PDT))


> I don't know if any of these natural sources provide therapeutic
levels
> of glucosamine though; as with Omega 3s it may be necessary to
> supplement in order to get to the recommended levels.
>
> For "maintenance" doses, the jointed bones your dog eats ought to
do
> the trick. Chicken feet and pig's feet included.
> Chris O


I have a senior that I'm going to switch to raw as soon as his k*** is
gone. He'll need supplements he has arthritis. Could you direct me to a
good supplement. Thanks.

Silvina and the limper, Senator


Messages in this topic (20)
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3c. Re: Pig Feet and glucosamine
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 7:59 pm ((PDT))

"delcaste" <delcaste@...> wrote:
> I have a senior that I'm going to switch to raw as soon as his k***
is
> gone. He'll need supplements he has arthritis. Could you direct me
to a
> good supplement.
*****
Actually, I cannot.
There are dozens of arthritis supplements and while some seem to work
for no dog, most work for some dogs but not others. Some people see
results with a combination of thus and so; others feel more
successful using X, Y and Z. Sometimes a supplement will work for a
while and sometimes you can hit on a product that just keeps on going.

You might want to join DogHealth or even RawChat (sister lists on
Yahoo) to dicuss your options; both lists are better suited than
Rawfeeding for the topic.

Offhand I recommend a good raw diet and a salmon oil (or fish body
oil) supplement. After that, my heavens I just don't know. I was
giving my seniors a gl/ch tripe strength combo, plus MSM and the
salmon oil, but I've no clue at all whether these would work for
other dogs.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (20)
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4a. Re: Any dogs 10+ years on raw?
Posted by: "Joanne Thompson" tho0123@earthlink.net black_diamond_kennels
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 3:56 pm ((PDT))

Laeny,

I have a Giant Schnauzer that is 12.5 and has been on raw since I got
him at 18 months. He lived on a farm, prior to me getting him, and he
was killing the chickens and eating them, so off to the shelter he
went. He has perfect teeth (never been cleaned since I've had him),
terrific coat with no skin problems, and still works on our sheep and
llama farm.

Joanne Thompson
Black Diamond Kennels
Working Giant Schnauzers
Bellvue, CO 80512

> ___


Messages in this topic (5)
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5. dogs on and off of food
Posted by: "redwinejoy" redwine1@windstream.net redwinejoy
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 5:31 pm ((PDT))

I just started feeding raw the first of the week. The first two days my sheltie loved it. I gave
chicken quarters. The third day he ate part of it and left part. The third day he smelled and
licked and walked away. The next day I tried a pork rib section to no avail. He has eaten
alittle liver and beef heart that I fed him sparingly ( I know, 10% and careful with new ones).
It has been 100 degrees here in the Atlanta area this week and although he is an indoor dog,
we do live on a farm where he is involved outdoors. Does the heat affect any of your dog's
appetites like this? He has always been finicky and that is one of the reasons I got involved
researching this to begin with. I can understand that all this is new and that there can be
fasting days. I need to know if I should try some different things, cutting meat off the bones,
anything... or just keep offering. Thanks, Joy R.

Messages in this topic (1)
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6a. Lamb meat
Posted by: "Alison Maffett" sweettuth23@yahoo.com sweettuth23
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 5:57 pm ((PDT))

I am going to be ordering lamb for the first time next month. My dogs have had some problems with their teeth and I planned on buying lamb breast but its not currently available. Would Lamb 6 way cut or lamb cubes be better? I want something with soft bones. Alison


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Messages in this topic (4)
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6b. Re: Lamb meat
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 8:05 pm ((PDT))

Alison Maffett <sweettuth23@...> wrote:
>
> I am going to be ordering lamb for the first time next month. My dogs
have had some problems with their teeth and I planned on buying lamb
breast but its not currently available. Would Lamb 6 way cut or lamb
cubes be better? I want something with soft bones.
*****
I think lamb breast bones are easy peasy; the problem with lamb breasts
if there is one is lack of meat. Or perhaps excess fat. I feed them
regularly and my retrievers do wonderfully on them. Too bad about it
not being available.

Six cut I think is tee-rific! Some meaty parts, some bony parts, some
more challening bones, some cinches. I don't know what lamb cubes are,
but IMO six-cut sounds much more gratifying.

So what are lamb cubes?
Chris O

Messages in this topic (4)
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6c. Re: Lamb meat
Posted by: "Alison Maffett" sweettuth23@yahoo.com sweettuth23
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 8:15 pm ((PDT))

Here's the definition: 3 inch cubed lamb with bone

----- Original Message ----
From: costrowski75



Alison Maffett <sweettuth23@ ...> wrote:

>

So what are lamb cubes?

Chris O



____________________________________________________________________________________
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Messages in this topic (4)
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6d. Re: Lamb meat
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 8:19 pm ((PDT))

Alison Maffett <sweettuth23@...> wrote:
>
> Here's the definition: 3 inch cubed lamb with bone
*****
Oh my.
These sound like accidents waiting to happen. Perhaps for cats or wee
sma dogs they might make sense. Otherwise? I most definitely
recommend a full pasadena.

Go six-cut or skip lamb this time entirely; you probably can get some
nice beef for the same price, no?
Chris O

Messages in this topic (4)
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7a. Re: Question about RAW feedings
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 6:17 pm ((PDT))

"Brandi Bryant" <bbryant573@...> wrote:
>
> I don't think I'm feeding enough - you all said that I should be
feeding 10%
> of their body weight, what does that exactly mean?
*****
Um, I think what it means is someone's given you some misleading
information.

The ONLY time you should even consider feeding 10% body weight is
with puppies no older than four months or so. Otherwise, you want to
be feeding between 2% and 3% of the dog's ideal adult weight, and of
course you want to pay attention to changing needs and adjust,
adjust, adjust when you see fit.


I've been feeding
> chicken for about a week now - I started out with Chicken Leg
Quarters for
> the big boys under 80 lbs(2 a piece morning and night)
*****
This is probably more than I feed to my 85lb Lab, but if the stools
are good you're not doing any harm...just cut back some now that you
have a better guideline and it makes sense to.


- and Chicken Thighs
> for the girls (2 thighs for Roxie, under 50lb and 1 thigh for
Catorie under
> 25lbs???) I know I'm not feeding nearly enough for the girls!
*****
I agree. 'Twere me, I'd be feeding a scant pound a day to the nearly
50lb'er and probably half a pound a day to the 25lb girl.


So, how much is 10% of their body weight?
*****
Ten percent of 80lb is eight pounds.
Ten percent of 50lb is five pounds.
Ten percent of 25lb is two and a half pounds.

You DO NOT want to feed this much food unless these dogs are four
months old or less. Even if they are pups, if they are older than
four months, you should be feed them 2%-3% of ideal adult weight, at
least as a starting point. Forget about 10% body weight.

The 10% that is relevant to feeding is the amount of organ meat you
can be feeding (10% of the total amount fed) and possibly the amount
of edible bone you can be feeding (10%-15% of total amount fed).
Otherwise, don't worry about 10%.


>well I didn't
> put her Puppy Chow up and well my big dogs got into the bag
(grrrrrrrr!) and
> now my males are all full on Puppy Chow - my question is should I
feed them
> their evening meal?
*****
Heck no!


Or should I wait until the kibble is digested?
*****
Yes indeedy do. And don't make THAT mistake again!


> also how many times a day should I be feeding them? Right now I'm
feeding
> them twice a day.
*****
Twice a day is fine. Later on, when you are more accustomed and
acclimated and settled, you can consider feeding once a day. There
is no rush.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (5)
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7b. Re: Question about RAW feedings
Posted by: "Brandi Bryant" bbryant573@gmail.com bbryant573
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 8:10 pm ((PDT))

>>>Um, I think what it means is someone's given you some misleading
information.<<<

Yes, I think you're right b/c when you said 2 to 3% of their body weight
that registered my memory. Ok, so feed the boys less and my girls more.
Catchya - I can do it -

And no I won't be leaving the Puppy Chow on the ground again that's for
sure!!!


__,_._,
Brandi
Bartlesville, Ok
www.obediencetrainingclubofbartlesville.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (5)
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7c. Re: Question about RAW feedings
Posted by: "betty hinson" b_hinson@sbcglobal.net paps4jesus
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 8:10 pm ((PDT))

since I have dogs that only weigh 8.4 lbs and 6 lbs I would o ly given 1 1/2 ozs ot the bigger dogs and not quite 1 1/4 ozs to the 6 lb dog?? Do you all give chicken thighs and legs??
Betty Hinson
b_hinson@sbcglobal.net
I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me Phil 4:13


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (5)
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7d. Re: Question about RAW feedings
Posted by: "linoleum5017" linoleum5017@yahoo.com linoleum5017
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 9:31 pm ((PDT))

Betty,

You have the math pretty well..... how many oz. is on chicken thigh
or leg? I'm guessing a thigh is about 2 oz. I'd go for one if I
were you. Legs are more bony. If I were you, I'd switch between
partial breasts and thighs, to be sure to get enough meaty meat.
Then I'd go for some different meats later on....

I watch a min pin, (on k***le) who is about 8 lbs..... if she were
permitted, she'd make short work of a thigh bone, I'm sure. Try it
out!

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "betty hinson" <b_hinson@...>
wrote:
>
> since I have dogs that only weigh 8.4 lbs and 6 lbs I would only
give 1 1/2 ozs ot the bigger dogs and not quite 1 1/4 ozs to the 6
lb dog?? Do you all give chicken thighs and legs??
> Betty Hinson
> b_hinson@...
> I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me Phil 4:13
>
>
>

Messages in this topic (5)
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8. Raw and puppies
Posted by: "Alisha" charlieschoicetreatco@yahoo.ca charlieschoicetreatco
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 6:38 pm ((PDT))

Hi all,
I have a 12 week old Italian Greyhound puppy that I am switching to
raw...my two other dogs have been on raw for about 5 months and things
are going great! Can I feed the puppy the same way I feed my other dogs
or do they need any special treatment while they are growing? I am
feeding the puppy 3-4 times a day(just started yesterday)
Also, I feed most meats with bone ground in and have found that as long
as I feed FROZEN turkey/chicken necks to my dogs once a week their
teeth and gums are in great shape....taking them out of the deep freeze
and handing them over ensures a great workout for their chompers!
Thanks for any info about my puppy!
Alisha Johnson

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9a. Re: raw and kibble mix
Posted by: "Evie" archie.willow@yahoo.co.uk archie.willow
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 6:40 pm ((PDT))

Hey,

I'm not going to offer much advice, there are way more experienced
people on here that can help. I've been feeding my two raw now for a
few months.

I just wanted to tell you how I got started. I'm not saying this is
the way to do it; but how I went from someone who thought Raw Feeders
were probably insane, to becoming a fully fledged meber of the funny
farm. ;o)

My two were on Kibble and that was just how I liked it. I often read
threads on other forums about people feeding their dogs raw meat and
so on and how much their dogs loved it. Crazy, how could that stuff
be good for a dog, kibble was the way to go! The occasional marrow
bone, sure, but raw!?! (I cringe now looking back!)

But eventually curiosity got the better of me, hearing all this talk
of raw, I gave them the occasional chicken wing as a treat (they're
small dogs). I remember standing carefully watching as they ate
their first ones. Of course they loved them! But no way was I going
to become one of those "far out raw feeders"....

For one I hated the smell of raw meat, plus handling it, yuck!! And I
didn't know enough about pet nutrition to decide what my dog should
eat.... that's why I bought kibble... those guys in the pet food
industry know their stuff, so long as you stick to the high end
kibbles..... (How silly and naive was I? lol)

So, one of my two had difficulty keeping weight on, someone
recommended tripe. Ok, so I start feeding kibble in morning and
tripe in the evening to both dogs. Both LOVE it! He starts looking
in much better condition, and hey, my other dog is doing well also.
Hmm, i think, perhaps this raw feeding isn't as "far out" as what I
first thought.

So I research, and read up, and read, and read and read some more...
Hey, this stuff makes good sense!!!

Meanwhile the dogs start bearly eating their kibble breakfasts, and
scoffing down their tripe and chicken wings.... Hmm, perhaps they are
trying to tell me something, I think.

So I finally took the plunge, they are on raw food now! :o) And
handling/smelling raw meat doesn't bother me, it's lushious dog food
for my pets!

I went from someone who would never do that, to trying it a little,
and look at me now. Perhaps these small steps you are taking will
encourage your b/f to do the same. If I changed, there sure is hope
for him.

Sure we had some vomits and occasional dire rear along the way... all
part of the learning curve for me.

Joining this list has proved invaluable as well.

Good luck convincing him; but I'm guessing seeing the gradual
improvements in his dog will convince him soon enough!

Evie


--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Ivette Casiano <ivettecasiano@...>
wrote:
Since Nugget was originally Brian's dog, he has the last say as to
what we do with Nugget and he's been very opposed to raw until the
pet food scare (recall) came about. Then he grudgingly consented to
letting me "half" feed raw but that was after we exhausted every
possible kibble on the market.

Messages in this topic (4)
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10a. Re: Anyone add vinegar to their dogs drinking water
Posted by: "mrtrans1121" roxannemartin@sasktel.net mrtrans1121
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 7:06 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "ohboyx3" <ohboyx3@...> wrote:
>
>
> Someone recently told me I could add a tiny bit of vinegar to my
dogs
> water.

I have not heard of using white vinegar but I have heard of people
adding "Apple Cider Vinegar" as it has many benefits.

"Many vitamins, minerals and other nutrients and substances are
available in ACV to improve the health of your dog. ACV can provide
them with enzymes and important minerals, such as potassium, calcium,
magnesium, sulfur, chlorine, phosphorus, iron, silicon and other
trace minerals. The vitamins contained in ACV are bioflavonoids
(vitamin P), beta-carotene (precursor to vitamin A), vitamin C, E,
B1, B2, and B6. Tannins from the crushed cell walls of fresh apples
as well as malic acid, tartaric acid, propionic acid, acetic acid and
pectin (fiber) are also contained in ACV. Be sure to purchase organic
unfiltered, unpasteurized, naturally fermented ACV for its medicinal
features. ACV ranges in color from a light golden to orange. You'll
know you've found the right stuff if you see sediment, referred to as
the "mother of vinegar" on the bottom of the bottle. Do NOT buy white
distilled vinegar, as it has none of the beneficial elements listed
above.

Roxanne

Messages in this topic (8)
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11a. Processing Tripe
Posted by: "doguenanny" Dixie4911@aol.com doguenanny
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 7:06 pm ((PDT))

I was lucky enough today to meet someone who raises cattle and pigs,
and processes his own meat. He told me he would give me the cow
stomachs. I'm so excited about this. I will be able to feed tripe more
often to my dogs (I have 10 dogs) without breaking the bank!

My only problem is I don't know the first thing about processing
tripe. I feed green tripe, but it's already cleaned and cut or
ground. What do I do with it? What kind of cutting equipment will I
need for it? Can anyone tell me what I'll have to do? I don't even
know what it's going to look like; I imagine it's going to smell pretty
nasty. HELP! LOL

Frankie

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________

11b. Re: Processing Tripe
Posted by: "Penny" redpenn2003@yahoo.com redpenn2003
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 7:48 pm ((PDT))

Hello Frankie.

Congrats on a wonderful find.

I get beef tripe from my one vet who also treats large animals.

No need to process it. Just feed it whole or take a sharp knife and cut it up into LARGE managable pieces for you. The larger the pieces the more work for the dogues.

Cheers,

Penny

doguenanny <Dixie4911@aol.com> wrote:

My only problem is I don't know the first thing about processing
tripe. I feed green tripe, but it's already cleaned and cut or
ground. What do I do with it? What kind of cutting equipment will I
need for it? Can anyone tell me what I'll have to do? I don't even
know what it's going to look like; I imagine it's going to smell pretty
nasty. HELP! LOL


Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

12a. Re: Rawfeeding Recipes
Posted by: "Patty Phaneuf" mikimush@yahoo.com mikimush
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 7:48 pm ((PDT))

I have a question about this. I bought a whole chicken tonight to do just that but when I cut the breastbone, the bones seemed very sharp for a puppy, although I do give wings, necks and legs. I cut off the meat and decided next time to buy a cornish hen and just give her the whole thing.

Patty P


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Messages in this topic (8)
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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11899

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: loose stool and vomits?
From: cmhausrath

2a. Re: Poo Problems!
From: cmhausrath
2b. Re: Poo Problems!
From: wubbles_hannah

3a. Re: Pig Feet/Andrea
From: cmhausrath
3b. Re: Pig Feet/Andrea
From: costrowski75

4a. Re: Rawfeeding Recipes
From: cmhausrath
4b. Re: Rawfeeding Recipes
From: lizwehrli
4c. Re: Rawfeeding Recipes
From: carnesbill
4d. Re: Rawfeeding Recipes
From: Nathalie Poulin
4e. Rawfeeding Recipes
From: h h
4f. Re: Rawfeeding Recipes
From: Shirley

5a. Anyone add vinegar to their dogs drinking water
From: ohboyx3
5b. Re: Anyone add vinegar to their dogs drinking water
From: costrowski75
5c. Re: Anyone add vinegar to their dogs drinking water
From: Laurie Swanson
5d. Re: Anyone add vinegar to their dogs drinking water
From: Nathalie Poulin
5e. Re: Anyone add vinegar to their dogs drinking water
From: ohboyx3
5f. Re: Anyone add vinegar to their dogs drinking water
From: ohboyx3
5g. Re: Anyone add vinegar to their dogs drinking water
From: ohboyx3

6a. raw and kibble mix
From: Ivette Casiano
6b. Re: raw and kibble mix
From: Nathalie Poulin
6c. Re: raw and kibble mix
From: Karen Swanay

7. Goat Meat?
From: briargarden07

8. Question about RAW feedings
From: Brandi Bryant

9. Alternative Tx for allergies?
From: Laurie

10a. Re: Any dogs 10+ years on raw?
From: Dawn Ruhl


Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Re: loose stool and vomits?
Posted by: "cmhausrath" cmhausrath@yahoo.com cmhausrath
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 5:54 am ((PDT))

"deep_ocean_of_sorrow" <deep_ocean_of_sorrow@...> wrote:

> my dog is recently having vomits in the mornings (before his
> breakfast... so i think its something from his dinner)
>
> and having really loose stools...
<snip>
> i don't know whats wrong, please help!


First: take a deep breath.

Dogs are not burdened by our human judgments about being "sick" or
about tossing back up something that's not agreeing with their
stomach. Chances are -- if your dog is acting normally -- he's not
upset about this. YOU being upset about it doesn't do either of you
any good, either. Chances are also that there's nothing
really "wrong," here, just his digestive system adjusting to his new
diet and to his expectations of mealtime.

Someone's already pointed out that if you regularly feed at one set
time, your dog will get used to that and will get geared up to eat AT
that particular time. If food doesn't appear, all the bile he's
generated in expectation will get irritating, and he'll toss it up.
No biggie, but avoidable just by mixing up mealtime a bit.

Newbie dogs -- and only a month is still fairly new -- also sometimes
toss up undigested bits of bone. Even oldbie dogs like mine will
toss up some bone if there's more in a meal than they can comfortably
handle. Could it be you're feeding more bone than necessary?

As for loose stools -- well, what's he eating? Variety in = variety
out -- remember that you're not going to see identical ki**le-fed poo
every time your dog goes. Bone-heavy meals = hard crumbly stool;
meatymeat meals = less-formed stool; lots of fat or organs (or
whatever your dog finds "rich") = loose stool.

All just not a big deal, if it's appropriate to what he's been eating
in the last few days.

-- sandy & griffin

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

2a. Re: Poo Problems!
Posted by: "cmhausrath" cmhausrath@yahoo.com cmhausrath
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 6:07 am ((PDT))

Sara Hawke <wubbles_hannah@...> wrote:

> Hi, I've been feeding my 7 year old dog raw since January, and
> we've been having a few problems with her poo. Now and again her
> poo is black and runny like tar, which makes me worry she has
> internal bleeding?


I just responded to another message about this -- nothing like
starting your Saturday morning with a little poop-talk -- so please
read that post as well. In short, though, remember that every dog
has its own individual responses to different foods. A lot of beef
liver or kidney or venison will cause these sticky black stools in my
dog; he rarely gets lamb, but as I recall it also causes looser dark
stool. These aren't "problems" -- these are appropriate responses to
individual meals. I don't mean to start an OT conversation, but
c'mon -- does your toilet bowl look exactly the same every day?


> Also, she was constipated this morning quite badly, yet last
> night she only had some ox heart which was just a meaty meal, so
> why would she be so bound up?


I have also found that meals can influence the stool I see as late as
a day and a half later. I don't know why; I don't know if this is a
bad sign; until I see a reason to worry about it, I just don't. But
I can tell you that yesterday evening Griff had a hard stool, the
kind with processed bone in it, and he hadn't had anything with bone
in it since the morning of the previous day.

If I were to find myself feeding nothing but, say, turkey for days on
end, and still seeing goopy black stools, THEN I would think I might
have some bleeding issue. As it is, though, I can usually recognize
what I've fed in whatever I'm picking up, and that doesn't cause any
worry.


> I'm worried her diet is lacking something, this happens on and
> off and shes only ever fed chicken, beef and lamb, with the odd bit
> of liver, fish and egg.


Your basic menu sounds fine, though you might try skipping the lamb,
or reducing it, for a while and seeing if the gassiness and loose
stools go away. Also, I can't help noticing that pork isn't on your
menu, yet it's a staple here, and I can't quite imagine raw feeding
without it. Might be a good way to add a bit of variety,
particularly if you decide to leave out the lamb for a while.

-- sandy & griffin

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

2b. Re: Poo Problems!
Posted by: "wubbles_hannah" wubbles_hannah@yahoo.co.uk wubbles_hannah
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 8:44 am ((PDT))

MODERATORS NOTE:SIGN YOUR MAILS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Thanks for the reponse, its put my mind at ease! As for the lamb, if
we give her a break from it, will that not mean when we feed it again
she'll be even more smelly?

We don't feed her pork no, she doesn't seem to stomach it too well and
as we get meat at a local free range farm which doesn't rear pigs, its
not an option.

I always over worry about her, as being an airedale its almost
impossible to tell when they are in pain as they never show it, which
is why females with birthing troubles can end up near death if the
breeder doesn't pick up on it.

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

3a. Re: Pig Feet/Andrea
Posted by: "cmhausrath" cmhausrath@yahoo.com cmhausrath
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 6:14 am ((PDT))

"diannem200400" <diannem200400@...> wrote:

> For people who've seen the short feet, often cut lengthwise, in the
> grocery store...I decided to ask the meat guy if he would leave the
> feet whole and as long as possible and eureka, I got foot long
feet.
> So, it's always worth asking. I'd like to know where Cris gets
those
> 20 inch meaty feeties.


If you're nice to your meat guys, they'll be nice to you. (They
might shake their heads and mutter about what a wacko you are, but
they'll be nice anyway, in my experience.) It's amazing what they'll
pull out of the back room if you ask: whole uncut beef hearts? Check
(and for $0.10 a pound less than the sliced on-the-counter price).
Whole veal breast? Check. Whole pork hocks? Check. Whole,
unfettered oxtail, back in the glorious days when it was $1.99 a
pound instead of $4.29? Check -- a whole 2-3 feet worth of tail.
Wowza.

I've gotten what I think Chris O gets -- pork feet that just keep
going and going, until they're indisputably "legs" rather
than "feet" -- though my dog now prefers to have more meat and less
bone in EVERY meal, so pork feet aren't often on the menu anymore.
Still, it's worth a try, if you have a store that actually cuts its
own meat. (Food Lion, at least on the east coast, is good for this.)

-- sandy & griffin

Messages in this topic (17)
________________________________________________________________________

3b. Re: Pig Feet/Andrea
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 7:23 am ((PDT))

"diannem200400" <diannem200400@...> wrote:
I'd like to know where Cris gets those
> 20 inch meaty feeties.
*****
Asian markets. But they are not always available. The "usual" would
be 14" to 16".
Chris O

Messages in this topic (17)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

4a. Re: Rawfeeding Recipes
Posted by: "cmhausrath" cmhausrath@yahoo.com cmhausrath
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 6:31 am ((PDT))

"Diana Zarate" <zarated5@...> wrote:

> Are there any recipes or books with recipes. I want to
> learn how to prepare the food before giving it to my Jade
(Bulldog).


The best thing you can do is to really hang out on this list, reading
just as much as you can. We cover a range of topics; questions that
won't occur to you for a couple weeks are already being asked every
day. If you're getting email, please also go to the website
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/messages) and read through
old posts there.

Along with that, although I haven't found any books that are worth
much for the nuts-and-bolts of raw feeding, there are several good
websites: first, check out http://rawfeddogs.net/Recipes for what
passes for "recipes" here. Kevin's idea of a recipe -- "Take half or
whole chicken or chicken leg quarter and hand it to the dog." -- is
all you really need to do, preparation-wise. No, no one's making fun
of you -- it really is that easy. I know when I started here, nearly
4 years ago, I too thought I'd be doing all this laboring in the
kitchen, fixing some kind of froo-froo recipes for my dog ... now,
I'd guess I spend between 30 seconds and a minute a day feeding the
dog. Lay down feeding towel, open fridge, pull out food, put on
towel, release dog from down-stay. Pick up towel and put away after
meal. Shoo, I bet that ISN'T 30 seconds a day!

Anyway, I digress: other useful websites are
http://www.rawfed.com/ (especially the "myths") and
http://www.rawlearning.com/

Whatever questions you have after all that, fire away! The best
thing you could do, though, while you do all your research, is to buy
a couple whole chickens, whack into meal-sized portions, and start
feeding your dog raw right away.

-- sandy & griffin

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

4b. Re: Rawfeeding Recipes
Posted by: "lizwehrli" lizwehrli@yahoo.com lizwehrli
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 7:16 am ((PDT))


--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Diana Zarate" <zarated5@...> wrote:
>
> Hello everyone, I am new here and I'm willing to learn "the right way"
> to raw feed. Are there any recipes or books with recipes. I want to
> learn how to prepare the food before giving it to my Jade (Bulldog).
> Thanks for your time.
>
> Diana


Check our www.rawfeddogs.net, click on the recipes section

Liz
>


Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

4c. Re: Rawfeeding Recipes
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 7:17 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Diana Zarate" <zarated5@...>
wrote:
>
> Hello everyone, I am new here and I'm willing to learn "the right
way"
> to raw feed.

Hey DIana,
Welcomd to the world of raw feeding. The right way to feed raw to
your dog is to just hand an animal part to your dog and he will do
the rest. If you want some illustrations check out

http://rawfeddogs.net/Recipes

There are many illustrations there.
I think maybe you need to do some research. Read the book "Work
Wonders" by Dr. Tom Lonsdale. You can find it at

http://www.rawmeatybones.com

You can download it in PDF format for
free. Just click on the picture of the book on the main page.

A few informative web sites are:
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm (My web page)
http://rawfeddogs.net/

--- be sure and check the recipes page.
http://www.rawlearning.com/rawfaq.html
http://www.rawfed.com/myths/index.html

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

4d. Re: Rawfeeding Recipes
Posted by: "Nathalie Poulin" poulin_nathalie@yahoo.ca poulin_nathalie
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 7:18 am ((PDT))

The great thing about a prey-model diet is that you
don't have to worry about recipes or grinding,
smashing, shredding, preparing etc.
Buy a whole chicken, and feed it to your dog.
What he doesn't eat, put in the fridge until the next
meal. Keep him on chicken for about a week or so,
monitor his poo's, if they're a little runny, he may
be eating too much at a sitting.
Then after a week or two, introduce a new protein,
like pork or beef. But only one at a time, at first.
Then you can try organs, like liver. DON'T FEED TOO
MUCH LIVER! Dogs can get cannon-butt VERY easily on
liver, so go with something like a tablespoon or so.
If your dog doesn't like, try freezing. Lots of people
on this list have dogs who won't touch liver unless
it's frozen.
The ideal guidline is %80 meat, %10 bone, %10 organs,
half of which should be liver.
My dog gets more than %10 bone though, because she
just LOVES them.
You just have to figure out what your dog likes and
work with it.

Nathalie

> to raw feed. Are there any recipes or books with
> recipes. I want to
> learn how to prepare the food before giving it to my
> Jade (Bulldog).

Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail at http://mrd.mail.yahoo.com/try_beta?.intl=ca

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

4e. Rawfeeding Recipes
Posted by: "h h" deedeekinsisme@yahoo.com tarbedyh
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 9:12 am ((PDT))

Hello everyone, I am new here and I'm willing to learn "the right way"
to raw feed. Are there any recipes or books with recipes. I want to
learn how to prepare the food before giving it to my Jade (Bulldog).
Thanks for your time.

~~~~~~~~~
You can find tons of recipes (and pictures of some of our dogs eating) on this website: http://www.rawfeddogs.net/Recipes


Also, if you want to get an idea of variety over time, I kept track of everything my dogs and cars were fed for a couple of months before I kinda forgot to write stuff down for a week or two and discontinued it: http://www.geocities.com/tarbedyh/Feeding.html


HEIDI MARIE
~with the woofs-Cheyenne and Lazy B~
~and the moggies-Minerva, Shasta, and Misty-Jo~

---------------------------------
Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows.
Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

4f. Re: Rawfeeding Recipes
Posted by: "Shirley" ssthunderpony@yahoo.com ssthunderpony
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 12:18 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Diana Zarate" <zarated5@...> wrote:
>
> Hello everyone, I am new here and I'm willing to learn "the right
way"
> to raw feed.

########### Here you go Diana .

All you will ever need to know about
proper raw feeding recipes. Enjoy ;-))

http://www.rawfeddogs.net/Recipes

Good Luck,

~Shirley ........
who firmly believes that wolves did not have grinders
or hunt for their next meal in Farmer McGregor's Veggie garden
unless they were looking for 'that' rabbit *g*

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

5a. Anyone add vinegar to their dogs drinking water
Posted by: "ohboyx3" ohboyx3@wildblue.net ohboyx3
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 8:35 am ((PDT))


Someone recently told me I could add a tiny bit of vinegar to my dogs
water. This was to improve my papilions tarter problem. Both of my
dogs have been on raw since Dec. My Jack Russell's teeth look great but
my little one's not so great.

I have done this twice and I already see an improvement with his teeth.
A surprising result was discovered in that he has a contsant eye running
that caused reddish stain under eye. When his water has vinegar in it
the drainage goes away( vinegar antibacterial properties I guess) which
came back when his water lacked the vinegar.

My concern is will this harm him and how much to I add to his water.

Has anyone done this

Would love all your opinions.

Danae for Zorreaux


Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

5b. Re: Anyone add vinegar to their dogs drinking water
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 9:53 am ((PDT))

"ohboyx3" <ohboyx3@...> wrote:
>
This was to improve my papilions tarter problem. Both of my
> dogs have been on raw since Dec. My Jack Russell's teeth look great
but
> my little one's not so great.
>
> I have done this twice and I already see an improvement with his
teeth.
> A surprising result was discovered in that he has a contsant eye
running
> that caused reddish stain under eye. When his water has vinegar in it
> the drainage goes away( vinegar antibacterial properties I guess)
*****
Since you see improvement based on the amount you are now using, keep
using that amount. It's not going to hurt your Pap and if the
improvement continues you're good to go. If over time there is no
notable improvement, you've not lost anything but time.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

5c. Re: Anyone add vinegar to their dogs drinking water
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 9:55 am ((PDT))

Hi Danae,

Well, nothing scientific, but it doesn't seem natural to me and I
would be concerned about the acidity of the vinegar eating away at
the teeth. I wonder if it's eating away at the tartar, but also the
enamel, etc.?

Also, as far as the eye drainage...it is a symptom of the body trying
to cleanse/get rid of some type of current or past toxin (bad food,
vaccines/drugs, etc.). So if you add something else toxic to the
body/diet (like vinegar), then the body might shift its priorities
toward getting rid of or storing (cysts, tumors) the new toxin
(vinegar, in this case) and may have to stop what else it was doing.
So, symptoms may change or seem to improve. They may go away for
awhile, but if toxins are still burdening the body, they will come
back or turn into worse forms of disease (again, like tumors or
cancer, etc.). Past or current toxins can both be of issue--
although, past toxins can be eliminated if we ease the current burden
enough. The body will cleanse and heal. I don't know how toxic
vinegar is, but since we know it's not a natural food, if you see the
symptom go away due to feeding it, it's only because whatever the
body was trying to do got interrupted. If interested in more info,
you might Google "toxemia" or let me know and I can dig up some
references.

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "ohboyx3" <ohboyx3@...> wrote:
>
> I have done this twice and I already see an improvement with his
teeth.
> A surprising result was discovered in that he has a contsant eye
running
> that caused reddish stain under eye. When his water has vinegar in
it
> the drainage goes away( vinegar antibacterial properties I guess)
which
> came back when his water lacked the vinegar.


Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

5d. Re: Anyone add vinegar to their dogs drinking water
Posted by: "Nathalie Poulin" poulin_nathalie@yahoo.ca poulin_nathalie
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 11:05 am ((PDT))

I'm just curious, what are you feeding him?
Some people say they are feeding raw but are including
veggies and yogurt etc, which could be causing his eye
leaking and inability to get rid of tartar.

Nathalie


--- ohboyx3 <ohboyx3@wildblue.net> wrote:

>Both of my
> dogs have been on raw since Dec. My Jack Russell's
> teeth look great but
> my little one's not so great.

Get a sneak peak at messages with a handy reading pane with All new Yahoo! Mail: http://mrd.mail.yahoo.com/try_beta?.intl=ca


Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

5e. Re: Anyone add vinegar to their dogs drinking water
Posted by: "ohboyx3" ohboyx3@wildblue.net ohboyx3
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 1:06 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Nathalie Poulin
<poulin_nathalie@...> wrote:
>
> I'm just curious, what are you feeding him?
> Some people say they are feeding raw but are including
> veggies and yogurt etc, which could be causing his eye
> leaking and inability to get rid of tartar.
>
> Nathalie
>
> > They are only getting raw chicken,pork, cornish hens,
liver,hearts,salmon,chicken eggs,sardines.
It may be that he is just not getting enough bone action with the small
amount of food he eats. He is five pounds, so he doesn't eat very much.

Danae

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

5f. Re: Anyone add vinegar to their dogs drinking water
Posted by: "ohboyx3" ohboyx3@wildblue.net ohboyx3
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 1:07 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Nathalie Poulin
<poulin_nathalie@...> wrote:
>
> I'm just curious, what are you feeding him?
> Some people say they are feeding raw but are including
> veggies and yogurt etc, which could be causing his eye
> leaking and inability to get rid of tartar.
>
> Nathalie
>
> > They are only getting raw chicken,pork, cornish hens,
liver,hearts,salmon,chicken eggs,sardines.
It may be that he is just not getting enough bone action with the small
amount of food he eats. He is five pounds, so he doesn't eat very much.

Danae

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

5g. Re: Anyone add vinegar to their dogs drinking water
Posted by: "ohboyx3" ohboyx3@wildblue.net ohboyx3
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 1:10 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Nathalie Poulin
<poulin_nathalie@...> wrote:
>
> I'm just curious, what are you feeding him?
> Some people say they are feeding raw but are including
> veggies and yogurt etc, which could be causing his eye
> leaking and inability to get rid of tartar.
>
> Nathalie
>
> > They are only getting raw chicken,pork, cornish hens,
liver,hearts,salmon,chicken eggs,sardines.
It may be that he is just not getting enough bone action with the small
amount of food he eats. He is five pounds, so he doesn't eat very much.

Danae

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

6a. raw and kibble mix
Posted by: "Ivette Casiano" ivettecasiano@yahoo.com ivettecasiano
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 8:36 am ((PDT))

Ok, here goes, I'm risking being "flamed" here but I need to be upfront so maybe someone can give me some good advice for the benefit of our dog. I know totally raw is the best, just that my hands are tied because Nugget was Brian's dog first before we started living together.
I've tried feeding raw and recently hit a snag. My sister who has been feeding raw to her dogs for 6 years has been after me to feed Nugget raw for the past 1 1/2 yrs since Brian and I moved in together. Since Nugget was originally Brian's dog, he has the last say as to what we do with Nugget and he's been very opposed to raw until the pet food scare (recall) came about. Then he grudgingly consented to letting me "half" feed raw but that was after we exhausted every possible kibble on the market. We had chosen an expensive, supposedly high quality kibble and then a week later saw it on the list of recalls. That finally convinced him. For his convenience we found a kibble that my sister recommended (although she only feeds raw, she suggested this until I could convince him). So we started feeding him Innova kibble in the mornings and raw chicken (chopped bones because Brian refused to allow me to feed whole chicken parts due to his hearing many stories about dogs
choking and dying from eating chicken bones. Never mind that I tried to tell him that it was cooked chicken bones that do that. Yes, my Brian is a stubborn one). So Nugget was doing well with his kibble breakfast and his chicken dinner until I introduced liver one day (and that week had introduced codfish, pork neck and beef heart), then he threw up once and had diarrhea for 4 days. Of course Brian insisted we go back to feeding him only kibble to stop the diarrhea. Nugget's diarrhea stopped. I included some Slippery Elm in his kibble. The day he threw up we had just gotten a grinder for the chicken bones and ground the bones but feed the meat in chunks. I'm wondering if this had anything to do with his diarrhea because I continued to feed him this mix of ground chicken bones and chunks of chicken meat throughout the 4 days. (with kibble breakfast). Two days before he threw up I had started feeding him raw completely. I had been feeding him kibble breakfast and raw
chicken/lamb for dinner for about 2 months before this incident.
Please don't tell me how stupid Brian is for doing this to Nugget, I know how stupid he is about dog nutrition and I've been telling him everything I read on this list, other lists, my sister's advice and research info but he's still stubbornly against feeding whole pieces of raw meat with bones. UUUgggghhh.
What I'm actually looking for is information on what this is doing to Nugget's digestion and why he was ok with it for 2 months and not ok now. I need actual details about what kibble does to them digestively and why it isn't good, so I can pass this on to him. The bone situation, I'm not sure I can convince him of that. Ironically he's ok with my giving him beef ribs with bone and lamb with bone and watching him crunch on that but not chicken (which is the softest bone around) Again, past stories of dogs choking on chicken bones.
Sorry this is so long but I wanted you to have all the background. I've written about this first but hadn't been upfront about still feeding kibble because I didn't want to be scolded because I know better but it's not up to me.

Ivette Casiano
"Live for today, plan for tomorrow"


---------------------------------
Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

6b. Re: raw and kibble mix
Posted by: "Nathalie Poulin" poulin_nathalie@yahoo.ca poulin_nathalie
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 11:05 am ((PDT))


It really sucks that you're trying so hard for this
dog and your boyfriend is working so hard against you.

Try going to

www.rawfed.com/myths

and MAKE your boyfriend read it. Hopefully it should
quell his fears. Also, maybe you could try asking him
to let you be in charge of feeding for the next month
so he can see the difference in how well a raw diet
will actually do his dog.

I know you've told him that it's COOKED chicken bones
that cause stomach upset, is there any way you can try
again to convince him?
I thought my boyfriend would be totally against
feeding our dog raw but when I laid out the facts and
told him he had no choice, he actually agreed with me.

Also, crushing up bones is not doing your dog any good
(as I'm sure YOU know).
When you bring this up with your boyfriend, does he
listen to you? Or does he just shut you down and not
want to listen? Maybe you should get him to join this
list!
Would you really be so adament about feeding the dog
raw if it was unhealthy?

I don't know what else to tell you, but I'd be really
frustrated with this if I were you.

Nathalie


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Messages in this topic (3)
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6c. Re: raw and kibble mix
Posted by: "Karen Swanay" luvbullbreeds@gmail.com kswanay1111
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 12:18 pm ((PDT))

The diarrhea was probably caused by ALL the things you added at once plus
> organ meats are notorious for causing loose stool. So if you can go back
> and start again, add only one thing at a time. And only small amounts of
> organs especially if you can't balance the softness with the hardness of
> bone. So that's the only thing I can tell you. I understand having to deal
> with a reluctant family member and if everyone on this list was honest, we
> ALL have at least one member that can't be convinced. My own mother won't
> let me give even small amounts of cooked meat to her dogs and she has seen
> mine and all the benefits from eating raw for 6+ yrs.
>

Karen


>
>

--
"Family isn't about whose blood you have. It's about who you care about."

LOI 1/26/07
PA 3/22/07
DTC 8/10/07


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
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________________________________________________________________________

7. Goat Meat?
Posted by: "briargarden07" briargarden07@yahoo.com briargarden07
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 1:40 pm ((PDT))

Hi! I'm new here but not to raw feeding. My husband and I have
10 dogs, mostly Bassets, Patch Beagles & two large mutts. We always
fed our hounds any leftover rabbit meat they caught, and my Patch
Beagles are "run to catch and dispatch" hounds, lol! So they always
got raw meat and leftover cooked scraps. About 5-6 years ago I
elminated kibble altogether, and it was a blessing we did, because I
fed Diamond ...
Anyway, my question is about goat meat. We used to get it for
the dogs in 5# packages at an ethnic market for .99 per lb. It was a
treat we gave them once a week. Since I moved, I haven't even seen
goat meat in years! I recently bought them several packs of goat
meat at the local grocery store that started carrying it this
summer - but its not the type of goat meat I remember giving to them
years back. Its cut into cubes that have small, hard as rock bones
in between the meat :( The goat meat I used to buy was sort of like
stewing beef, with no bones or bones like lamb necks. This new cubed
meat is horrible. Two of the Bassets got the small bone stuck in the
roof of their mouth, and we've NEVER had problems with bones in all
this time.
My dogs never did fare too well with chicken so I try to give
them red meat as much as possible. And on top of that they love the
goat meat, tolerate it very, very well. I was wondering if there are
other ways to purchase the goat meat besides those cubes with the
small, hard bones (they remind me of thin beef rib bones)? OR do
they only come cubed now? I've been cutting out those small bones
and jsut giving them the meat mixed in with an egg and some
scraps ... too much work, lol ;)
Thanks!

Noelle

Messages in this topic (1)
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________________________________________________________________________

8. Question about RAW feedings
Posted by: "Brandi Bryant" bbryant573@gmail.com bbryant573
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 1:48 pm ((PDT))

I don't think I'm feeding enough - you all said that I should be feeding 10%
of their body weight, what does that exactly mean? I've been feeding
chicken for about a week now - I started out with Chicken Leg Quarters for
the big boys under 80 lbs(2 a piece morning and night) - and Chicken Thighs
for the girls (2 thighs for Roxie, under 50lb and 1 thigh for Catorie under
25lbs???) I know I'm not feeding nearly enough for the girls! I am not
good with percentages etc...yesterday I went to the store and bought their
quick sale stuff - I got a package of drumsticks, thighs, a couple of
packages of whole chickens already cut up - so what I did was I gave the big
boys Max got half of the whole chicken which included half chicken, wing,
drumstick, the back and the thigh - Duke who needs to go on a diet anyway
even before I put him on the RAW diet (u can't feel his ribs)got half of
chicken and the back - Catori got a leg quarter and Roxie got leg quarter,
drum stick and thigh. So, how much is 10% of their body weight?

Another question, I train dogs on the side - and I got this Boxer/Heeler
this morning along with her crate and her dog (Puppy Chow) - well I didn't
put her Puppy Chow up and well my big dogs got into the bag (grrrrrrrr!) and
now my males are all full on Puppy Chow - my question is should I feed them
their evening meal? Or should I wait until the kibble is digested? And
also how many times a day should I be feeding them? Right now I'm feeding
them twice a day.


Thanks in advanced,

--
Brandi
Bartlesville, Ok
www.obediencetrainingclubofbartlesville.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (1)
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9. Alternative Tx for allergies?
Posted by: "Laurie" lnhoffman57@aol.com lauriescritters
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 2:22 pm ((PDT))

Hi Everyone:

I took my PWD who has skin allergies to a Alternative Vet today and she
did muscle testing on her and the results showed that my dog is
allergic to Vit. A, Calcium, and pollen. I'm not surprised by the
pollen (I've had her tested for environmental offenders and she came up
highly allergic to a bunch of things, in addition to pollen.) But Vit.A
and Calcium? Wouldn't that mean she's allergic to her RMB because the
bones have calcium? I've heard good and voodoo about muscle testing,
but I gave it a shot. Anyway, the Vet gave me Homaccord solutions, one
for the Vit A/Calcium, and one for the pollen. She told me to hold the
bottle against the dog, tap down her spine at least 6 times, continue
holding the bottle against her body for 5 minutes, then give her a few
drops of the stuff orally. I'm all for alternative/herbal/holistic
health care, for both my animals and people, but has anyone had any
experience with this? Seems a bit nuts to me. Thanks in advance for
your help!!

Laurie and Storm

Messages in this topic (1)
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________________________________________________________________________

10a. Re: Any dogs 10+ years on raw?
Posted by: "Dawn Ruhl" Dawnofthedanes@mac.com dawnofthedanes
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 2:23 pm ((PDT))

I have one Dane who self raw fed as a young dog. That is why he ended
up in my rescue. He was killing the neighbor's calves and eating them.
He was 3 when he came here and will be 11 this December.
His teeth are as nice as my pups', and he is a hoot. He rips through
the house after every elimination. We all know what he was doing. LOL
~;*;~ Dawn ~;*;~
http://www.dawnofthedanes.com

~;*;~ ~;*;~ ~;*;~ ~;*;~ ~;*;~
> My question is: does anyone have a dog who has been fed raw for 10 or
> more years, and what is the dog like, coat/teeth/ears/health in
> general? I'm curious :) and looking forward to seeing it for myself.
>
> TIA! Laeny
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11898

There are 21 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Any dogs 10+ years on raw?
From: merril Woolf
1b. Re: Any dogs 10+ years on raw?
From: nwohiopma

2a. Re: Carcinoma
From: Carol
2b. Carcinoma
From: blechatlb@aol.com

3.1. Newbie
From: ive_anbio10
3.2. Re: Newbie
From: rosey031801
3.3. Re: Newbie
From: Andrea
3.4. Re: Newbie
From: cmhausrath

4.1. Re: A few questions
From: carnesbill

5a. diarrhea/Abscess/runny eyes
From: Giselle

6a. Re: Pig Feet
From: Morledzep@aol.com

7a. loose stool and vomits?
From: deep_ocean_of_sorrow
7b. Re: loose stool and vomits?
From: marblekallie
7c. Re: loose stool and vomits?
From: Nathalie Poulin

8a. Re: Pig Feet and glucosamine
From: delcaste
8b. Re: Pig Feet and glucosamine
From: Morledzep@aol.com
8c. Re: Pig Feet and glucosamine
From: costrowski75

9a. Re: Fat buildup
From: costrowski75

10. Poo Problems!
From: Sara Hawke

11a. Re: Pig Feet/Andrea
From: diannem200400

12. Rawfeeding Recipes
From: Diana Zarate


Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Re: Any dogs 10+ years on raw?
Posted by: "merril Woolf" merril@kentfieldwhippets.com whippetsrus2002
Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 11:17 am ((PDT))

->
> My question is: does anyone have a dog who has been fed raw for 10 or
> more years, and what is the dog like, coat/teeth/ears/health in
> general? I'm curious :) and looking forward to seeing it for myself.
>
> TIA! Laeny
>

I have a whole house full of them so come on over.

No bad teeth and all healthy and active. My 15 yr old never misses our daily walks. We
free run about 5 miles and she enjoys every bit of it.
All shiny coats even though I never bath my dogs. Never needed it. No dentals. No skin
issues. Heck, I don't even know what a skin issue is.
No allergies. Never had a dog with diarreah although I have had the very rare dog hauk
up a unidentifiable thing and re-eat it before I could tell what it was.
Never had a vet visit for a food/diet related illness. Only vet visits are for rabies shots or
athletic injuries or foxtail removal from ears. Or a health certificate or health check for
pups before going to new homes.
You get the picture.

My dogs compete in canine sports at a top level. Most of the top dogs in our sports are
also raw fed. The raw fed always have the best coats too.
I would venture to say the raw fed are also happier. Nothing like a bunch of dogs all
coming home after a good hard workout and being tossed some nice big meaty bones or
tripe/egg mix then finding a good spot to eat then sleep the sleep of the truly sated.

I have a web page if you'd like to see some of my dogs. It's not very current but most of
the dogs on it are still here plus a few new ones.

Merril

Messages in this topic (3)
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1b. Re: Any dogs 10+ years on raw?
Posted by: "nwohiopma" nwohiopma@yahoo.com nwohiopma
Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 12:44 pm ((PDT))

Hi Laeny,

My 13 y.o. Collie was switched to raw last November. He's hypothyroid
and was diagnosed with mast cell cancer 4 years ago.

His chronic dandruff went away, his coat is softer and he no longer
has bad breath. His teeth no longer have any tartar. His dry eye
went away too.

Candace and the 4 Collies

> My question is: does anyone have a dog who has been fed raw for 10 or
> more years, and what is the dog like, coat/teeth/ears/health in
> general? I'm curious :) and looking forward to seeing it for myself.
>
> TIA! Laeny
>


Messages in this topic (3)
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________________________________________________________________________

2a. Re: Carcinoma
Posted by: "Carol" onejoyfulmoose@yahoo.com onejoyfulmoose
Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 12:43 pm ((PDT))

Cindy,
I can relate to the cancer issue you are now going through. About 2
years ago we lost a male Leo to osteocarc.
Yes, there are lots that you can do to help and the raw diet works
wonderfully when dealing with a dog with cancer. You'll find that
there will be favorite foods and sometimes you'll end of cooking them
just to try and get them to eat (I know, it's no longer raw then, but
meats are so important to keep strength up, that you'll do whatever it
tatakes and give whatever they'll eat even if you have to feed them by
hahand off your own plate. We did.)
If you go to the website for Millie's Millions. They are a support
group for owners whose dogs have cancer. They have several links on
dealing with the cancer, 2 of them are vets from Metro Animal Hospital
in Ohio. They are both wonderful people and the 1 is homeopathic and
he has wonderful suggestions that might help you baby.

You might also want to list to the one by Kris Thut, she is my niece
and it was her dog that had the cancer.

Please feel free to e-mail me off list and I'll give you all the
support I can.

Blessings
Carol, Moose & Joy
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>


Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________

2b. Carcinoma
Posted by: "blechatlb@aol.com" blechatlb@aol.com blechatlb
Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 9:21 pm ((PDT))

anyone have any thoughts that might help me convince my husband that this is
what I need to do?
------------------------------------
For one, you can let him know that grains feed cancer.

TracyB

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
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3.1. Newbie
Posted by: "ive_anbio10" ive_anbio10@yahoo.ca ive_anbio10
Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 12:44 pm ((PDT))

I just wanted to know, how much to expect to pay for raw food, for my
90lb Lab for one month. Which meats should I initiate with? For
chicken, should I include all the bones? He eats very fast, and I dont
know if he should be fed the bones because he would just swallow
everything whole. Lastly, what is an adequate price to pay for chicken?
(per lb or kg)

thanks Ivan

Messages in this topic (97)
________________________________________________________________________

3.2. Re: Newbie
Posted by: "rosey031801" rosey031801@sbcglobal.net rosey031801
Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 1:35 pm ((PDT))

Price will depend on where you are, and where you shop. MY best bargain
is chicken leg quarters at 39 a lb. but I have a smaller dog (25lbs.).
You probably want to feed half of a chicken a day or two leg quarters.
See what they cost. If he is a gulper, the more bone the better. It
slows them down. Also if you feed the meat frozen it really slows them
down. Try it. I would never go back to feeding my boy anything else. It
has been over a year and he is better than ever!
Cheryl

Messages in this topic (97)
________________________________________________________________________

3.3. Re: Newbie
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 1:36 pm ((PDT))

At first it is probably going to be more expensive for you until you
find buying groups, ethnic markets, and when the supermarkets have good
sales. If your lab is at his ideal weight, he'd eat almost 2lbs a day
(estimating 2% of weight, yours might eat more or less). I keep my
meat purchases to an average of $1/lb, so in a month you're looking at
about $60 for food. Lots of people start with chicken because it is
easy to find and generally cheaper than other meats. I have found
whole chicken on sale for $.60/lb quite often, and I stock up then.
After a couple of weeks with just chicken, you and your boy will be
more acclimated to raw feeding and will be ready to go onto another
protein source (turkey, pork, etc).

If your boy is a gulper the best way to keep him safe from swallowing
stuff whole is to feed him things he couldn't possibly swalow whole.
I'd start with feeding half chickens instead of chicken quarters if you
are concerned. Stay away from small things like necks, or wings that
have been removed from the rest of the bird, they are just the right
size to swallow whole.

Hope this helps, let us know if there are more questions.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "ive_anbio10" <ive_anbio10@...>
wrote:
>
> I just wanted to know, how much to expect to pay for raw food, for my
> 90lb Lab for one month. Which meats should I initiate with? For
> chicken, should I include all the bones? He eats very fast, and I
> dont know if he should be fed the bones because he would just swallow
> everything whole.

Messages in this topic (97)
________________________________________________________________________

3.4. Re: Newbie
Posted by: "cmhausrath" cmhausrath@yahoo.com cmhausrath
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 5:43 am ((PDT))

"ive_anbio10" <ive_anbio10@...> wrote:

> I just wanted to know, how much to expect to pay for raw food, for my
> 90lb Lab for one month.


As a general guideline -- subject to adjustment later, as you see how
your dog does -- most dogs need to eat about 2-3% of their ideal adult
body weight per day. For your 90# lab, that might be something like 2#
a day. My personal price goal -- which I think is shared by many here -
- is $1 a pound. So you're looking at maybe $2 a day, $60 a month.
Probably you can do better than that for price as you develop some
sources, but it's a starting point.


> Which meats should I initiate with?


Most people find chicken easy to start with -- soft bones, easy for the
dog to chew & digest, easy to find in stores, and inexpensive.


> For
> chicken, should I include all the bones? He eats very fast, and I
dont
> know if he should be fed the bones because he would just swallow
> everything whole.


You'll eventually realize that it isn't so much about feeding "bones"
and "meat" as separate things -- what you're trying to feed are
ANIMALS, whole prey to the extent possible. So instead of thinking
about feeding chicken with "all the bones," realize that you're just
feeding a chicken -- the whole kit & kaboodle. You shouldn't go out of
your way to feed EXTRA bone, because what an animal is built with is
already the right proportion. Check out the Recipes page of

http://rawfeddogs.net for pictures -- worth a thousand words -- of
potential menu items. Also on that page is a good comparison of a
meaty bone (http://rawfeddogs.net/RecipePhoto/32/0) versus just a bony
bone (http://rawfeddogs.net/RecipeDetail/3).

Oh, and your dog CAN'T swallow whole what he can't fit in his mouth --
hence the guideline to "feed something bigger than his head." Check it
out, from the same website: http://rawfeddogs.net/RecipePhoto/32/11

Make sense?

-- sandy & griffin

Messages in this topic (97)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

4.1. Re: A few questions
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 1:19 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "erica" <ericagordon@...> wrote:
>
> Also
> should I be feeding giblets? I can get a tub of them
> pretty cheap,
> but I wasn't sure if it was too early to introduce them
> (although I
> realize they count towards the meat ratio not the organ)is it too
> soon?

I think its too soon. There ARE some organs in gibblets I think.
I'm not a cook and I don't buy whole chickens so I really am not
100% sure. :)

> Also, Sophie is due for her heart worm prevention pill. Do you
> still use this commercial product?

I use heartworm prevenative every 45 days during mosquito season
(june to oct in my area).

> Last question, what do
> you use
> for flea & tic prevention?

I use FrontLine ONLY WHEN I SEE FLEAS. The last time was about a
year ago. I used it one time. The time before that was maybe 2
years earlier.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale


Messages in this topic (27)
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________________________________________________________________________

5a. diarrhea/Abscess/runny eyes
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 1:22 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Eloise!
SEBP does not so much 'make diarrhea go away' as soothe the
digestive tract and provide a mucousy coating to line it to help it
recover from an episode of irritation that causes diarrhea caused by
too much new food, too much food at a meal, some food or non food item
that the dog is intolerant of, environmental stress, parasites,
disease, etc. Diarrhea can get into a vicious cycle where the dog has
diarrhea because of gastric upset, and then the irritated digestive
system causes the dog to have diarrhea.
SEBP will help return the gut to normal, to allow a change in diet or
feeding or environment to have the proper effect.
Fasting for a day, plenty of fresh water and rest and dosing with SEBP
for a day or a few days is what I'd do, along with a reevaluation of
what, how much and how I've been feeding, and if tests at the vet are
necessary for an underlying condition.
To answer your Q, I use 1 tsp SEBP to an ounce of minced or ground
chicken. I mix up several days doses at a times, and roll them into 1
ounce meatballs. I offer a dog several during a fast day and one
before each meal and at least a couple other times a day after I
reintroduce food, and for 1-2 days after that. I also keep the meals
half normal size, boneless for a day, start out with chicken, and no
organs or treats or edible chewies, and restrict access to the
outdoors without supervision, where the dog might be eating something
that is causing the upset. I add more bone, larger meals and more
variety, etc. over the period of about a week.
I get my SEBP here; http://fiascofarm.com/herbs/supplements.htm
You can also get it in the health food store loose or in capsules.
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey
btw, TIA means Thanks In Advance.

> how much slippery elm would you give to help diarrhea go away? (20lb
> dog) how do you give it...is it a powder on top of food or a liquid?
> thanks
> eloise
>
> (ps I am not up on my internet lingo but I have seen this on a few
> posts...what does TIA stand for?)
>


Messages in this topic (4)
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________________________________________________________________________

6a. Re: Pig Feet
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 2:05 pm ((PDT))


In a message dated 8/10/2007 3:32:08 AM Pacific Standard Time,
diannem200400@yahoo.com writes:

I got a good deal on pig's feet, but I haven't fed them before. My
question is, do they have any nutritive value or are they just
recreational? They are about 12 inches long and look to have meat on
them, but it's hard to tell. If I fed 3 or 4 of them to a big dog,
would it be a meal, or should I just give them as fun chewie toys?



Dianne,

pig feet are mostly skin, fat, cartilage and bone, almost no meat at all, so
therefore not suitable as an entire meal. I buy pigs feet by the case and put
9 feet in a zip lock bag. and refreeze..

and then when we've had too many days of meat only or a heavy organ meal that
i think might cause some loose stools i'll thaw a bag of pigs feet and give
one to each dog.

i also find they are great for keeping puppies busy for awhile.. along with
pig masks and snouts.

Catherine R.

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Messages in this topic (15)
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7a. loose stool and vomits?
Posted by: "deep_ocean_of_sorrow" deep_ocean_of_sorrow@yahoo.com deep_ocean_of_sorrow
Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 4:14 pm ((PDT))


my dog is recently having vomits in the mornings (before his
breakfast... so i think its something from his dinner)

and having really loose stools...

he didn't have them before when we started raw feeding (about a month or
so ago.) and its just started recently.

he vomited when i woke up at around 7:30 and was kind of gagging (which
woke me up). and I see a pool of weird yellow liquid...

i didn't see any foods or raw-type material or blood or solid anything..
it smelled really weird too.

i don't know whats wrong, please help!

Kate


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7b. Re: loose stool and vomits?
Posted by: "marblekallie" marble@pipeline.com marblekallie
Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 5:24 pm ((PDT))

Hi:

That yellow vomit is just bile. Sometimes my dogs do it, but not
often. I just clean it up when it happens as it hasn't shown to be
an indicator of sickness or major intolerance of food fed. Perhaps
it is a sign of minor intolerance or just and adjustment, but unless
this continues on a daily basis, I would just read it as a sign that
some adjustment in the digestion department is taking place.

As for the loose stools, either you are feeding too much, too much
organ meat, too much variety or not enough bone. So, do a Sherlock
Holmes and investigate by eliminating possible causes one by one and
you will have your answer. I have a four month old mini dachs. who
eats like the adults including doing a decent job on bones, was
switched cold turkey at 3 months and who hasn't yet had a runny poop
problem. She has vomited as you describe once or twice, as have all
my other 3 dogs, but none went off their food or appeared to be sick
because of it. Perhaps someone can explain more clearly why dogs
vomit bile.

Philippa Jordan
New York City


> my dog is recently having vomits in the mornings (before his
> breakfast... so i think its something from his dinner)
>
> and having really loose stools...
>


Messages in this topic (3)
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7c. Re: loose stool and vomits?
Posted by: "Nathalie Poulin" poulin_nathalie@yahoo.ca poulin_nathalie
Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 5:47 pm ((PDT))

Do you feed him at the same time every day? If your
dog is used to eating at a specific time, and you are
feeding him later now, he might just need time to get
used to an alternating schedule.
It's like pavlov's dogs, if he's conditioned to eating
at 6:45am, and you're holding off till 7:30 or later,
his stomach is still producing acid/digestive
fluids/bile, which, if not fed, he will throw up.
As for the loose stools, maybe you're feeding him too
many organ meats, too much meat and not enough bone or
just simply not enough bone.

Nathalie

p.s. what are you feeding him and when? is he on a
very strict schedule normally?

>
> he vomited when i woke up at around 7:30 and was
> kind of gagging (which
> woke me up). and I see a pool of weird yellow
> liquid...
>

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8a. Re: Pig Feet and glucosamine
Posted by: "delcaste" delcaste@yahoo.com delcaste
Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 5:07 pm ((PDT))


> Quick question: Gave bulldog pig foot, he spent a good hour going at
> it. Is the pig foot meant to be totally ingested? What if he gnaws
> it for awhile, okay to keep in fridge for later?
>
> Thanks, Adrianne

I freeze my pig feet and give one each to the dogs as a treat or as
busy work. They love all that chewing and I've only had to pick one up
once and refrigerate for another day.

BTW, can anyone tell me if pig feet are a good source of glucosamine as
are chicken feet? Thanks!

Silvina and the pugs with Chino, the Pit
>


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8b. Re: Pig Feet and glucosamine
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 5:51 pm ((PDT))


In a message dated 8/10/2007 4:08:26 PM Pacific Standard Time,
delcaste@yahoo.com writes:

BTW, can anyone tell me if pig feet are a good source of glucosamine as
are chicken feet? Thanks!



Silvina,

yep.. anything with lots of cartilage is a good source of glucosamine and
condroitin..

i think pound for pound chicken feet might be better, but it takes lots fewer
pigs feet to make a pound..

Catherine R.

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8c. Re: Pig Feet and glucosamine
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 6:15 pm ((PDT))

"delcaste" <delcaste@...> wrote:
> BTW, can anyone tell me if pig feet are a good source of glucosamine
as
> are chicken feet?
*****
Since chicken feed are nothing but cartilage, they probably have more
glucosamine to offer. However, pig feet and every single other body
part than contains a joint also contain cartilage and offer
glucosamine.

I don't know if any of these natural sources provide therapeutic levels
of glucosamine though; as with Omega 3s it may be necessary to
supplement in order to get to the recommended levels.

For "maintenance" doses, the jointed bones your dog eats ought to do
the trick. Chicken feet and pig's feet included.
Chris O

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9a. Re: Fat buildup
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 6:04 pm ((PDT))

Felicia Kost <saphiradane@...> wrote:
> Ok, thank you, so u don't think it is diet related?
*****
Nope.


I failed to mention that she is making a mess of her bed and
blankets lately and digging at my floor, could this be a symptom.
*****
You betcha!


If this is false pregnancy what do I do. Should I wait it out and
for how long?
*****
Watch and wait. I suppose she could develop an infection but I
haven't heard of it. I don't know how long. Seems like my bitch has
been in some stage of it for two months, but that may just be my
perception. Probably others will have better information for you.


Does this required a vet?
*****
Not generally, no.


If this is hormonal does that mean possibly hormones from the meat I
buy could cause this I try to go as natural as I can afford?
*****
I don't think so, but I don't know for sure. I know of bitches that
have eaten grassfed/organic meats for years but have repeat false
pregnancies. I think feeding the best you can afford is fine.
Chris O

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10. Poo Problems!
Posted by: "Sara Hawke" wubbles_hannah@yahoo.co.uk wubbles_hannah
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 4:18 am ((PDT))

Hi, I've been feeding my 7 year old dog raw since January, and we've been having a few problems with her poo. Now and again her poo is black and runny like tar, which makes me worry she has internal bleeding? She isn't fed anything too boney at once, like chicken necks or wings, and the last time it happened, just less than a week ago, she was whinging to be let out 5 times during the night! Its cleared up now and she was pretty much the same old dog throughout so don't think she was suffering really, any ideas on this?

Also, she was constipated this morning quite badly, yet last night she only had some ox heart which was just a meaty meal, so why would she be so bound up?

I'm worried her diet is lacking something, this happens on and off and shes only ever fed chicken, beef and lamb, with the odd bit of liver, fish and egg. Also, shes been getting lamb now from early spring, yet even now when she gets it, she releases some very vile wind that gasses us out of the room! She gets it probably 2-3 times a week, so why would it still be causing wind?

Sorry for all the questions, any help would be appreciated!
Sarah


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11a. Re: Pig Feet/Andrea
Posted by: "diannem200400" diannem200400@yahoo.com diannem200400
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 4:18 am ((PDT))

For people who've seen the short feet, often cut lengthwise, in the
grocery store...I decided to ask the meat guy if he would leave the
feet whole and as long as possible and eureka, I got foot long feet.
So, it's always worth asking. I'd like to know where Cris gets those
20 inch meaty feeties.

Dianne M.
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Andrea" <poketmouse45@...> wrote:
>
I've only seen the short feet (about 6" long), but I know
> that they do sell long feet that have meat and muscle from the leg
> still attached.

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12. Rawfeeding Recipes
Posted by: "Diana Zarate" zarated5@sbcglobal.net bulliegirl55
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 4:19 am ((PDT))

Hello everyone, I am new here and I'm willing to learn "the right way"
to raw feed. Are there any recipes or books with recipes. I want to
learn how to prepare the food before giving it to my Jade (Bulldog).
Thanks for your time.

Diana

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